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Greek Prime Minister: Greece Faces "Bankruptcy" Without Radical Action, Country Is In "Wartime Situation"

Tyler Durden's picture


Has it been 15 minutes? Yep - here's the latest from Dow Jones: Greece risks bankruptcy if it doesn't take radical extra measures to fix its finances, Prime Minister George Papandreou warned Tuesday, saying the country was in a "wartime situation." We are confident the "wartime" reference is purely a metaphor cause Turkey has been very quiet lately. And here is how you can help:



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Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:38 | 251161 Fritz
Fritz's picture

The ultimate "last" bullett in the gun is currently pointed directly at their head.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:40 | 251167 macfly
macfly's picture

Thank you for making me laugh out loud!

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:40 | 251168 truont
truont's picture

Greece and Germany are now getting a bit impatient, waiting for the IMF/FED/USGovt to save the day.

They don't know that the US wants the breakdown to actually start, so they have political cover here to take action (ie bailout).


Tue, 03/02/2010 - 19:58 | 251714 Irrational Exub...
Irrational Exuberance's picture


Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:47 | 251179 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Would you please stop spreading bad news. All is good. "Markets" are up. And, you know, they know better.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 19:25 | 251687 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

first time here? Welcome!

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:54 | 251182 tenaciousj
tenaciousj's picture

"if IT doesn't take radical extra measures to fix its finances"

And by IT I'm assuming they mean someone else giving them money.  Here is a hint, take whatever messures you need to fix your own fucking problems.  It's not that hard, well it is because now there is no easy way out.  All roads leads to pain.   Either it's gonna hurt a lot, or it is gonna hurt a lot more.

US is heading for the same shit.  Look at what is happening now.  WE NEED FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY!!!! Until you start taking away benefits that people have grown accustomed to.  Everyone is so used to a fucking handout, they've forgotten how to live for themselves.

Everyone wants to scream bloody murder at Bunning for blocking UE extensions.  How about the 25 million unemployed get off their fucking asses, drive to D.C. and show them that the dog and pony show isnt gonna cut it anymore and make something happen.

Will that happen no.  UE will get extended and people will continually line up at the trough for what little they can get as they clinge to the hope that things will get better.



Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:27 | 251419 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

Not really.  These are MONETARY debts. 

Of course they're screwed because they are part of a monetary system. 

Fiscal responsibility is what got us here, not the other way around.  Huh? Yep.  Pennywise, pound foolish for 40 years.  We've been doling out less and less in handouts for 40 years, so why have we been put in constantly more trouble? Simple, the bankers are stealing through inflation and scams what we cut, every time we cut it.  You want to give the bankers a bigger pay day? Cut social spending.


We've been allowing everything to crumble and increase the cost of goods. Our educational system is so idiotic we spend 10-20 percent of the time teaching for the end of year test instead of actually teaching them something.  Then we get idiots who are 'experts' who instead of using good judgment, trial and error, and seeking out more experienced minds - we instead get, idiots who rely on statistical models.   Instead of having fusion now or soon (since we could of funded it the past 40 years) we still have another 40 years or so to go.  Now if you know how to make anything, your job is currently overseas in the name of corporate profits.  We've been hollowing out our economy for 40 years, not strengthing it.  I suspect a lot of republicans, supply side trickle downers still haven't realized that.  Few businessess can make money, because the system is broken.  If gov't isn't there to help with 'handouts' under this situation, it's only being cruel and unusual. 

I do agree with one point, 25 million people in D.C. showing the gov't how wrong they are would be a beautiful sight. You could almost make an argument that providing handouts keeps people from doing this.  But you're quite wrong.  People whether or not they are getting handouts are still pissed off, they just don't know what to think, just things are screwed up.  Besides the handouts they get aren't enough to drive cross country, stay in a hotel, buy fast food, etc. 


Fiscal responsibility starts with paying for what you need; healthcare, infrastructure, education, sciences, etc.  Therefore I've almost never seen a REAL fiscally responsible republican.  Because they are AGAINST all these things (generally). 

We stopped being fiscally responsible a long time ago.  We became paper pushers instead. Monetarist paper pushers.

Read my lips.  Handouts didn't get us here.

The banksters running their monetary system rigging everything to constantly, perpetually stealing a little bit more from us, did. We make a cut, they rig it more neccesitating a new cut because of the dogma that is balanced budgets.  Then we do, the bankers steal a little more, rinse, repeat for 40 years.


If you believe handouts got us here, or social spending, you got a rude awakening coming. 


Hurt a lot, or hurt a lot more? That's the idiocy of Ron Paul (which he has lots of good ideas, but that ain't one of them)

How about keeping our freedoms, and cancelling the fraudulent MONETARY debt.  That's doable.  You could cancel out 8-10 trillion of our debt no problem.  Of course people holding that debt would be screwed, but that's the game in monetarism.  Besides, anyone with a brain has known it's been fraudulent for decades.  Even if it paid out, it only did because the system hadn't yet crashed.  Now it has and every debt holder has been warned for years now.  Every debt holder can see the fraudulent nature of the debt.  Every debt holder should KNOW that their legitamate debt has been co-mingled with fraudulent debt.  Meaning congrats, most debt holders are the proud holder of something resembling chopped and screwed mortgages. Meaning all debt co-mingled is worthless.

That's the reality.

You can cancel the bailouts, the derivatives, the fraudulent debt.  You can switch to an American credit system and completely bypass the bankers and federal reserve in uttering credit.  We choose to let bankers and the fed use their monopoly against us.

Or we can have our gov't utter credit, AND have private banks.  Think of that, more competition.  Of course bankers would lose 90 percent of the time, but they still can exist, and if done right, profit.  If we don't do this, no one will profit long term.

The only pain we feel is if we either a) continue down this path, or b) crash the system and pretend like we need not do anything or should do anything like Ron Paul say

There's a better way, and his name is Lyndon LaRouche.  Where you can have your freedoms, AND have gov't do right and be 'bigger' but LESS intrusive.  It's only MONETARIST control of your gov't that you hate/fear.

Are you looking for an easy way out, or an optimal way out?

SO we can have a lot of pain, a lot more, or quite a bit less.  The way you describe only two options is just flat out wrong.

But the people need to stand up and demand action.  But if you're so concerned about handouts, you will put a republican in that claims he won't give out handouts, and will balance the budget, and keep us safe......but will still screw you over 1000x more through banker's and QoE monetarism. Then you'll probably blame liberals, or social spending, or deadbeats, or lazy people for our problems.  That thinking is so backwards it makes the monetarists almost sound plausible.


The system is screwed, and has been one by one taking down companies for 40 years.  It was managable up to 2007-2008 breaking point.  Now, only major changes can fix things.  Ron Paul's way doesn't change enough, and his outcome is let invisible hands rule.  Sorry, I'm done with the b.s.


Ron Paul can be a good leader who can help us in many ways get from here to where we want to be.  But if his complete vision is realized, it could actually be used by the monetarists to destroy us.  Meanwhile, TPTB have been using lots of Ron Paul type words.  Budget deficits and fiscal responsibility.  Debt commissions, and austerity.  These talking points are designed to fool republicans into following another red herring.

Republicans the last 40 years believed a higher number of dollars in your pocket was everything.

Not in a MONETARY system.

You got rid of everything for more federal reserve note in your pockets the last 40 years.

Those don't build wealth...actual STUFF does.

So now that the notes are becoming worthless, you have your tax cuts, you've gotten your extra money.  At the cost of everyone else.  Now we're screwed because we gave up everything for a few extra dollars that can be devalued overnight by the federal reserve or a thousand other things.  I'd rather still have a manufacturing base, because THAT value although sensitive to, will never become worthless like a federal reserve note can.

So chase another red herring.  Let the bankers screw us out of the some of the last bastion of wealth we have....the ones that were supposed to be the 'extra' now comprises a vast larger proportion of our wealth.  Those monies residing in social safety nets.  Pensions, social security....once those are gone, we have nothing but low taxes and a bunch of federal reserve notes.  Get it. 

It ain't about handouts, it's about always having the logistical capability of meeting the needs of our population.  We don't have that anymore, and lots of people have already wasted, spent, or lost the benefit from downgrading our economy.



Tue, 03/02/2010 - 17:16 | 251516 jomama
jomama's picture


Tue, 03/02/2010 - 20:03 | 251718 wake the roach
wake the roach's picture

"If you believe handouts got us here, or social spending, you got a rude awakening coming."


Amen... The greatest mistake the citizens of the US (among almost all nations) made was to entrust people to leadership who are motivated by exactly the same thing we all are, money. Crazy huh? But I share a radically different view on the big picture, and feel free to call me crazy ;-)

Everyone moans and bitches about Goldman Sachs when 99/100 people would be doing the same shit. C'mon just admit it, they are following the natural evolution of capitalism, to use whatever means necessary to gain advantage over competitors who would love the chance to knock them from the top...

The ultimate endgame of capitalism is one single all powerful monopoly over everything and in that monopoly, one single all powerful being. Of course this is not possible but the system has existed and flourished in the United states for long enough to climb very high in the steps of the pyramid, is it therfore any wonder why the beginning and the end of this game was and will be played out in America? Do people really believe that if GS did not exist, we would not be whipping another bank? 

 "If we increase taxes we can invest it for your retirement, provide income when sick yada yada yada". We've all heard it before and in principle it sounds fair and logical to me...

There is no such thing as "benefits" or "entitlements", just choice words introduced into public debate with the sole intention of distracting the gullible from truely frightening reality. This form of hardworking, patriotic, taxpaying, "support our soldiers" propaganda vomit is a clear symptom of FASCISM... But please my fellow Americans, don't ever, ever, EVERRRR stop and ask yourself, "I wonder how many retirements could be funded if we retired one aircraft carrier or say, a few nuclear ICBM's?" or "How many citizens that died today could have been saved if we destroyed 10 less cruise missiles/year because their healthcare insurance did not cover brain tumors if you have had a migraine in the past 3 years?"... 

The reality is that instead of using TAXPAYERS MONEY, earned through the "real economy" to fund these social safetynets, these funds have been directed into the hands of banking and financial cartels, military, health, agricultural and pharmaceutical industrys and of course, the politicians own pockets and all of this so called "greed" is the result of the natural evolution of competitive, free market capitalism. Or we can just keep lying to ourselves and call it greed because its easier to believe other people are bad and we are good right? Bullshit...

Monetary systems like capitalism, along with its many and varied brothers, sisters, cousins and uncles, all unfortunately lead to the same violent end... We have all the resources, technology and knowledge required to provide every man, woman and child on the planet with first class food, clothing, housing, healthcare, education  TODAY... And all with a quality of life and a future of umlimited potential yet we fail to recognise that it is the monetary systems themselves, made obsolete by technology, that will never allow us to become civilized or reach even 1% of our collective potential when we are trapped in the spiral of individual competition for money that allocates us our slice of the limited resource pie. We cannot fix capitalism with regulation or deregulation, Paul or Obama , fiat or gold, democrat or republican...

Capitalism and all the other ism's time has relegated to the history books, has served its purpose well but one must be completely ignorant to believe it is the be all and end all of our economic and societal evolution... 

I can only hope that there are children alive today that will one day look back on us in the same way that we view cavemen, as primative savages... 

But I should apologise for another rant folks, I'm dreaming... We will repeat the same mistakes over and over again until the mass of human suffering becomes so widespread and unbearable that people are forced to ask " Is there anything better" and the answer is yes, there is... 


Wed, 03/03/2010 - 13:21 | 252454 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Nope. Capitalism includes the rule of law. Without the corrupt going to jail you can't have capitalism - just corruption.

Spreading the fish and loaves around doesn't work. Teaching a man how to fish and bake bread does.

Wed, 03/03/2010 - 13:24 | 252463 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture


A lot of what LaRouchePAC puts out is quite interesting and thought provoking - but you should also actually read what Ron Paul advocates before you criticize it - it weakens your position when you expose yourself as not having done so.

BTW, a credit system will still be vulnerable to corruption. What we need is competing currencies:

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:49 | 251184 Mongo
Mongo's picture

George Papandreou rides the bomb!

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:50 | 251185 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Greece in no rush to sell bonds, debt chief says (Bloomberg)

I thought they weren't in a hurry?  Oh, that was several hours ago.  My bad.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:51 | 251189 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Do I detect evidence of the always popular "fraud, waste and abuse" as the vehicle for cutting the budget? Maybe Eurostat will sign onto that approach.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:51 | 251190 GoldSilverDoc
GoldSilverDoc's picture

The weird thing about a "sovereign" bankruptcy is... there are no "assets" to go after by the creditors.  So, why don't they just do it, declare all GGB's void, screw all the creditors, and start over?  Is Germany going to invade them and take it out of their hides?  Or steal all their natural resources (which are?)?

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:15 | 251217 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

what do you think the US will do - WWIII then all foreign owned debt is void.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:40 | 251254 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

We already have the Elgin Marbles

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:11 | 251411 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

"Or steal all their natural resources (which are?)?"

A lot more gold than you realize apparently. Per capita, Greece is a large holder. Probably stalling for time until the "fiat party" really gets started. Why play your hole card when the pot is small?

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 17:20 | 251522 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Natural resources include Gyros meat and souvlaki. Greece needs to come up with a technology that will save the country. Sounds like they are already working on a revolutionary - "Five Fingered Yogurt Maker".

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:51 | 251192 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Jeesh just bail them out already!  we know how this story ends..."France and Germany realize they would rather buy bonds from Greece than buy US Treasuries."

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:53 | 251193 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture


Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:56 | 251194 john_connor
john_connor's picture

Whatever happens, this ends badly.

This centuries old bubble is taking a little longer than expected, although today's price action doesn't impress me.

I know this is getting old, but my suspicion that we have a few more days of bs oscillation.  Next week is 10 and 30 year auction, plus the Merkel summit is coming up in a few days, so Monday could be interesting.

The view is still breathtaking (and promising) from up here on bear mountain.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:54 | 251195 Wynn
Wynn's picture

Come on Greece, 300 Spartans held off a million Persians back in the day

Can't you beat back just a few bond vigilanties today, jeez

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:21 | 251221 tenaciousj
tenaciousj's picture

If the 300 spartans had been part of a labor union and demanded more benefits in the face of the approaching Persians or they would strike, I think the history lesson would have ended quite differently.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:47 | 251260 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Right on, Wynn. "Then we shall trade in the shade!!!"

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:52 | 251484 Oso
Oso's picture



hahaha + 100000000000

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:50 | 251271 Gold...Bitches
Gold...Bitches's picture

An Allied force of approximately 7,000 men thus marched north to block the pass in the summer of 480 BC. The Persian army, alleged by the ancient sources to have numbered in the millions, arrived at the pass in late August or early September. Vastly outnumbered, the Greeks held off the Persians for seven days in total (including three of battle), before the rear-guard was annihilated in one of history's most famous last stands. During two full days of battle, the small force led by King Leonidas I of Sparta blocked the only road by which the massive Persian army could pass. After the second day of battle, a local resident namedEphialtes betrayed the Greeks by revealing a small path that led behind the Greek lines. Aware that his force was being outflanked, Leonidas dismissed the bulk of the Greek army, and remained to guard the rear with 300 Spartans, 700 Thespians, 400 Thebans and perhaps a few hundred others, the vast majority of whom were killed.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 17:12 | 251509 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Yeah but what have the Greeks done lately?

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 20:07 | 251719 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

The Persian army didn't number in the millions. That is a silly exaggeration promulgated by Herotodus. You couldn't possibly have fed that many people. The real number was something like 200,000, but still 7000 fending off 200,000 was quite a feat.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:56 | 251280 Get_to_the_choppa
Get_to_the_choppa's picture

This...time it's...DIFFERENT!!!!!!!

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:55 | 251198 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Wake up! Greece will 100% default on their sovereign debt. There will not be any bailout!

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:55 | 251199 Bigdaddydvo
Bigdaddydvo's picture

I hereby request a significant uptick in the use of "Greek Drama" and "Greek Tragedy" puns in the course of ZH's excellent coverage of their impending sovereign debt implosion.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 15:33 | 251345 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

IMF bailout = "Lucifer Ex Machina"

A deus ex machina (pronounced /?de?.?s ?ks ?m??kin?/ or /?di?.?s ?ks ?mæk?n?/,[1] literally, in Latin, "god from the machine") is a plot device whereby a previously intractable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with a contrived introduction of a new character, ability, or object. It is generally considered to be a poor storytelling technique because it undermines the story's internal logic.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 18:19 | 251613 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Well the great Greek poet Homer said:

"If I was President Obama for a day, I'd order the Treasury to stop printing money and start brewing beer. That would end this depression pretty damn fast!"

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 13:56 | 251202 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Do I detect evidence of the always popular "fraud, waste and abuse" as the vehicle for cutting the budget? Maybe Eurostat will sign onto that approach.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:06 | 251210 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Bankruptcy is the best alternative for Greece and it's people. Much better than debt slavery, the fate of American's.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 19:40 | 251700 masterinchancery
masterinchancery's picture

The creditors' expeditionary force will seize all the ouzo and pretty girls--much to the delight of the girls.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:09 | 251211 Fritz
Fritz's picture

Benny B. sez:

"No problemo, I'll crank up the mint, rub out a truckload of dollars and ramp the market".


Problem solved...

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:12 | 251213 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

The most bizarre thing of them all for me is how the market manipulators are so shameless in their manipulating... I mean, accepting the manipulation, why don't they at least make the market go up say 0.1% every day, instead of 0.5%-2.0% every day. It is just a way too absurd. At the same time it is quite telling. The best way to prevent a plunge is not to create conditions that make it most likely and most likely larger than otherwise. The fact they are doing what they are doing tells me the end game is a crash that guarantees that for a whole generation no one wants to own stocks... so that there is demand for sovereign debt.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:14 | 251214 Comrade de Chaos
Comrade de Chaos's picture

omg .

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:15 | 251215 chunkylover42
chunkylover42's picture

I am starting to think this is by design.  Change the message every 15 minutes so they can hide the real situation and plans from market participants.  Try to block any assault by evil "speculators" and buy as much time as possible.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:23 | 251222 bingaling
bingaling's picture

WOW. I think Papandreou just realised his country is about to go circa Argentina . He actually sounds honest , I guess having a countries population looking to hang you will do that . What he needs to do is get some balls , pull out of the ESCrew and bring back tourists .The economy will be fine it is all cash anyway . The gov't and will have to shrink though .

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 15:41 | 251362 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Life aint bad in argentina these days inspite of what your media tells you. Sometimes default is better. When will BB learn ?

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:28 | 251228 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Citizen response:

Greece's civil servants union ADEDY said that it would stage a
24-hour strike Mar. 16 to protest against the new measures. 
"The civil servants, which are the lowest paid in
, are paying the
price for this crisis. Enough in enough," ADEDY President Spyros Papaspyros

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:54 | 251277 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

This is nonsense.

Greece has the highest percentage of people working for the government and they get paid 14 months per year, plus retirement at 55, plus one time end of work payment, plus lifetime medical benefits. don't feel sorry for them.

Pity the young college graduates who have the knowledge but have no work. 

The country needs catharsis.

Break-away from the EU roll out the drachma and start over.




Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:29 | 251229 Aductor
Aductor's picture

The Germans want a stable Euro. But that does not necessarily mean a strong or overvalued Euro relative to the dollar, given that Germany is so dependent on export. So "managing" the message/rumour mill from Berlin via Athens in order to create that slight downward slope on the USD/EUR curve is just perfect for them. True European co-operation...


Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:35 | 251248 peaceful
peaceful's picture

the greek press is speculating about this also but the euro has to drop by a lot more in order for german exports to be more attractive

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 15:26 | 251330 Aductor
Aductor's picture

Or EUR/USD curve rather.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:30 | 251231 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

Why don't I swing by and cut your credit cards in half....that ought to help.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:30 | 251232 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Are any US banks going to take a hit from the EU faltering?

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:06 | 251398 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Take a hit? That kind of thing is sooooo 1985.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 18:50 | 251647 Oso
Oso's picture

75% of lending to EM came from Europe.  US banks didnt really take part - to the extent that they are exposed, it is through the opaque and intricate derivative relationships each of these banks has with each other. 


I have to say, i really thought there would be a devaluation from the balkans or non EUR eastern fringe that would precipitate this crises.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:33 | 251237 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Greece is old "news". The market goes up everytime there is some "hope" for a bailout. There is a lot more "hope" coming, for Italy, Spain, California, Illinois, New Jersey etc etc.. There can be no end in sight for this "bull market". Distorted world, distorted market!

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:35 | 251243 Pinkfleud
Pinkfleud's picture

You know I keep reading this crap on how we have to cut back and do with less because of "THE" crisis. I was not the one steering ANY of these sinking ships and yet I have to cut back and do with less for the collective good. Fine, I'll make sacrifices but I wanna see these Gubmt officials take a LOT more pain since they were the ones who allowed and yes were complicit in all the funny business that went on in all these Gubmts. Go back 20 years in administrations and cut all pensions in half, current admin cut all salaries 50%, we could make up quite a bit of coin if we did. Sorry had to rant ..

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:51 | 251276 Fidel Sarcastro
Fidel Sarcastro's picture

Excellent idea.  Too bad the scum in DC will never go for it no matter how bad the situation becomes.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 15:42 | 251363 Aductor
Aductor's picture

Actually, playing the blame game doesn't really cut it. We get the politicians we deserve. Whether now or 10 years ago, the principle is still the same. Or, if you really have no responsibility for our current state of affairs, why not blame your neighbor or co-worker?

We voted for those idiots, so who are we really to blame? "They" never made the tough decisions, because "they" know that "they" wont' get reelectet if we don't get those tax cuts, benefits or what have you. With all due respect, but "they" are as ignorant, short sighted and ego-centric as we are. What else would you expect?


Your neighbor.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:10 | 251408 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

[We get the politicians we deserve]

I would have agreed with that sentiment -- 20 years ago.

Since around 1990 we get the politicians the media and their corporate handlers/owners want us to have.

How you vote matters almost nothing when all the choices are the same, and all are equally bad.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:21 | 251427 Aductor
Aductor's picture

So, you are saying we are so stupid that we accept anything mainstream media jams down our throats (i.e. the story of the day)? There is no free will, no "rational" individual agents who know their own best and act accordingly? Or are they too few? I am shocked! How can there be an efficient, rational market in that case?

(Yes, I understand and agree with your postmodern stance. Yet, what good is it to blame others if we cannot even consider our own insufficiency?)


Tue, 03/02/2010 - 17:03 | 251496 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

I'm not saying anyone is stupid. I'm not taking about the markets (though I could) and I'm not talking about free-will (though I could). Your free-will is a paper sack in which you must carry your limited expectations, because you have evey day fewer chances to do anything in a free manner. If you do not see this then you should lay off the Ayn Rand Kool-aide.

I am saying that the MSM is on the take and part of the "candidate selection panel" that pre-screens who makes it far enough to be on the ballot. They do this deliberately because the MSM have a financial interest in the outcome of elections. After the candidates are selected you end up with a bunch of empty suits on the ballot who are not going to rock the boat.

So vote, or not. It won't matter either way because it won't change the kind of shithead running dog that ends up in office.

Has nothing to do with my insufficiency. The game is rigged. It just is, I'm not even making that up. The Congress is filled with millionaires and businessmen of dubious moral lineage, bent on making more money because that's all they ever knew and will ever know. They imagine even that this is The American Way and justify graft and corruption on the graves of the founding fathers. And yes I think that is traitorous and I am being proven right on a daily basis.

I mean, does even one other person disagree with this assessment? Was Ron Paul (just to take an easy example) ever given even a civil nod by the media? Are there even 5 Senators or more than a score Reps who vote their precincts and not their wallets? Am I the only one who sees that the fix is in and has been for 20 years at least?

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 17:38 | 251546 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"Am I the only one who sees that the fix is in and has been for 20 years at least?"

Interestingly the answer is "Yes" and "No" based upon a poll published a few weeks before the 2008 election.

When asked if the majority of Congress (meaning Senate and House) was not corrupt, somewhat corrupt, mostly corrupt or totally corrupt, over 80% of the people selected mostly or totally corrupt. Yet when asked if their own Senator and/or Representative was corrupt, less than 20% said he/she/they were corrupt.

Clearly the American people feel there are problems, only the problems are your fault, not mine. It's your Congress critter, not mine, that is corrupt. This is a wonderful example of denial and problem/responsibility shifting. Clean up "your" back yard and "we" will be better off. I won't vote for "your" tyrant but my candidate is a good person and wants to make things all better.

So "yes" we see the fix is (and has been) in but "No" it ain't my problem.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 19:09 | 251670 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Then Aductor is partially correct in saying that we get what we deserve; people are saying that they want their congress-critter to cheat for them, but in that case it's not cheating but "serving the people". The fix is in, and it's a good thing.

It's okay. I don't give much of a damn. It needs to burn. Just let it burn.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 22:00 | 251779 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture


Polling is part of the nonsense that allows the lunatics to run the asylum. It's more advertising than anything. Left unsaid, what is the supposed purpose of opinion polling?

Many people are still deluded that we live in some kind of majority rule scheme or democracy, even. Now that's another subject, but people do tend to have a kind of herd instinct, and in modern society don't usually want to be thought of badly by their neighbors, family, employer, etc. The trick for new totalitarians apparently is to inculcate the belief that the mainstream majority holds extremist views regardless and, further this is the good part, persuade the majority that their neanderthalic, knuckle-dragging opinions place them distinctly in the minority opinion. Now polling isn't capable of doing all that, but it's part and parcel of a very effective propaganda campagin and so polling is used in conjunction with a host of other techniques to shape opinion and manipulate legislation and elections and so on. Once you know what you're looking at you'll see and hear this crap used ALL the time in many different outlets and venues. Bad cess to them.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 17:57 | 251569 Aductor
Aductor's picture

I'm neither assesing you or your qualities, nor am I of the opinion that society consists of totally "free" individuals (whatever that is). Sorry for being a bit sarcastic.

I agree with you that the game is rigged to quite some extent. But that does not mean that we just can blame politicians in DC. Sure, politicians always exploit our self-righteouness, lazyness and ignorance to a more or lesser degree. But blaming "them", calling for "average, normal persons" to represent us, is just playing according to that very rigged game. I don't think populist calls will ever change the system. What we need is some kind of revolution - something that really changes the playing field (and that will certainly not be the Tea Party Movement).

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 18:46 | 251644 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

"Since around 1990 we get the politicians the media and their corporate handlers/owners want us to have."

Sorry, but the "corporate/media manipulation" meme is just buck-passing excuse mongering. For all the corporate dollars that go into elections, no one holds a gun to our heads and forces us to vote these clowns into office. We ALL did it ourselves. If we are being "manipulated" by the media, it's because we gave up our own capacity for independent thought in favor of short-term ego gratification from pandering entities and politicians.

Expressing contempt for our current leaders is certainly not undeserved, but no one ever wants to deal with the fact that we got exactly what we wanted. We didn't want leaders that would be honest with us about the state of our nation and looked at its future over the long-term. We wanted politicians we could give ourselves a hug for voting, ones that would pander to our unwarranted sense of self-regard and never hold us accountable. We wanted political Mommies that would kiss our boo-boos, not statesmen or people of wisdom. We wanted mediocrity and we got it.

And that's not our leaders' fault.

If we get what we want and end up disappointed, then it's because we weren't careful enough about what we were asking for in the first place.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:49 | 251267 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

Sounds like they are planning to shoot the union leaders.  

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:49 | 251268 Leo Kolivakis
Leo Kolivakis's picture

Does Goldman sell credibility swaps?

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:11 | 251410 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Now that you mention it, they will.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 14:58 | 251285 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture


Unionized Public Employees everywhere need to take a hit - but not until the ELECTED officials take one.

I expect LOTS of pressure - both in Greece and here in the US, for public employees to "give back" in terms of pay and benefits, and it needs to happen. But not until the ELECTED buffoons who created the mess in the first place get theirs cut.

'Course, it won't happen.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:14 | 251417 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

They won't. Then their gov-run pension funds will go BK. Then they'll scream for greater taxation of everyone else to refund the pensions. And then they'll go up against the wall, because there are limits to how much naked parasitism society will allow.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 15:03 | 251296 laughing_swordfish
laughing_swordfish's picture


What need to happen, both in Greece and the US, is for Unionized Public Employees to take a radical hit in wages and benefits NOW.

But not until the ELECTED buffoons who created the mess in the first place get theirs cut.

Chances of that happening? The proverbial two - and Slim just left the building.


KrvtKpt. laughing swordfish

Kmdt-in-deputize RMGsHKl

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 15:11 | 251311 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

So equities are now going up because Greece is NOT being bailed out? ROFL!

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:48 | 251474 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Green shoots grow in toxic sludge - who knew?!!

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 15:19 | 251320 What_Me_Worry
What_Me_Worry's picture

The solution to every government fiscal crisis is so easy, its stupid.  No elected official gets paid while their government runs at a deficit.

The speed at which officials would make necessary cuts would be epic.  There would never be a funding crisis again, guaranteed.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 22:00 | 251781 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Now THAT IDEA, Alfred E. W_M_W would be fabulous.

Too bad it will never happen.  But, that was the best idea I have seen that WOULD fix the fiscal mess.

You must be ahead of your time...

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 15:31 | 251322 Mongo
Mongo's picture

A good video from Marketwatch about the subject


Either you get your debt under control… or your debtors takes control of you

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 15:28 | 251334 Gordon Freeman
Gordon Freeman's picture

Calling all Greeks--come in, Greeks...

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 15:29 | 251335 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

The Fog of War...

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 15:45 | 251369 alexdg
alexdg's picture

This is bullish news, market should break the SPX 1123-25 resistance in AH's or pre-market. Tomorrow a gap up and head for new year highs on almost negative volume. 6 up day's is perfectly normal, has happened on 8 ocassions since June so just go Long and watch CNBC.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:06 | 251395 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

If I were a German taking holiday in Greece this summer, I would do a "booger check" into every gyro I ordered there...just sayin'.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:29 | 251442 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Equity market loves this story.

Every time there is flare up the market stays flat.

Every time there is an approaching bailout rumor the market goes up 1 percent.

They might get 500 points out of this by the time we move on to the next train wreck.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:44 | 251466 babum
babum's picture

So he should take radical action. Such a comment sounds like he is waiting for somebody else to do it.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:48 | 251475 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture


NJ Transit plans to cut 200 jobs, or 2% of its work force, and implement an emergency spending freeze as it contends with a $300 million budget gap, The Star-Ledger of Newark reports Tuesday. The New Jersey agency will also cut executive salaries by 5% and employee 401(k) contributions by a third. Executive Director James Weinstein also said service cuts and fare increases of 20% to 30% could be imposed as soon as May.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 16:50 | 251478 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Picture Zed from Pulp Fiction tapping his fingers on the gimps head and looking at Greece, Ireland, Spain, and Portugal and saying 'now which one should we do first' while his glassy eyed buddy stares in lustful anticipation.

Now follow this plotline to it's logical conclusion.


Tue, 03/02/2010 - 17:34 | 251540 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Greek tourism takes its worst dip in 15 years

"Prices are expected to dip further in 2010 to offset the decline in foreign tourists. According to the report, prices might be slashed by as much as 30 per cent for the upcoming season in an attempt to revive business."


Tue, 03/02/2010 - 17:52 | 251565 Adam Neira
Adam Neira's picture

I've heard they are very hospitable to tourists in Crete. The young boys from the island are adept at playing games with matches and houses of worship. Just recently in January a 24 y.o. mental giant from Iraklion put on two pyrotechnic displays for his fellow firestarters. Many looked on in quiet, excited approval. An Aegean "Bonfire of the Vanities" ! 

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 17:42 | 251551 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Speaking of debt problems, wasn't the City of Harrisburg, PA almost certain to default on its bonds yesterday?  Nothing about it in the MSM, or even on the City Controller's website.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 17:43 | 251552 Adam Neira
Adam Neira's picture

Prime Minister George Papandreou has a very difficult job at the moment. Balancing the needs of all the various interest group in a nation like Greece is problematic. Greeks are very proud of their history. They like to claim many things for their own. When Greeks feel besieged by foreign powers they revert to an extreme nationalistic position. The problem with this right now is that they are caught between a rock and a hard place. They cannot have it both ways. Either they submit to the dictates of the ECB or IMF and sacrifice some of their sovereignty or they withdraw and return to the Drachma.

All the blustering, demonstrations and finger pointing will result in the same realisation, i.e. Greece is in serious economic trouble largely of their own making. Living beyond one's means is great for awhile, but then reality sets in. Large portions of the Greek population are suffering from cognitive dissonance at the moment. Dimitri may need some belt tightening. Diaspora Greeks in places like Melbourne will not save the country in some sort of “Save the Motherland” surge either.  They are more concerned with whether their property values in the old country are going to be affected and if they should sell at the moment. One thing that would help would be dramatic cuts in the Defence Budget. Peace with Turkey over Cyprus and the North Eastern borders should be negotiated. You can lead a Greek horse to peaceful waters but you can’t make him drink however

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 17:58 | 251571 Great Depressio...
Great Depression Trader's picture

The thing about greek citizens that isnt being discussed by the media is the LOW household debt numbers. Its somewhere around 40% of GDP. So the gov went into debt but not the people. The gov delevers a certain percentage meaning incomes fall. But you wont have huge asset price deflation like other western nations. Plus, if they cut spending, raise taxes (huge balck market to tap) and make some agreements with the turks, they should be ok.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 18:16 | 251609 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Calls on Greeks to help 'the country'??!?!  and by that you mean the fucking oligarchs who were the BENEFICIARIES of all that government spending?

Fuck, people, look at what our government spends ITS debt on.

Is it fucking welfare?  NO. 

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 18:43 | 251638 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

What will it take for folks just to tell the bankers no? They wont stop until the have it all..worldwide.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 19:08 | 251667 Ich bin ein whatever
Ich bin ein whatever's picture

The answer, my friends, is clear.

All Papandreou needs to do is hold a "Help get Greece out of Debt Marathon".  Maybe to get the most publicity out of it, he could have it attached to American Idol in some way.  Everybody who makes a donation owns a piece of Greece (the parts of Greece already owned by Goldman Sachs are exempt).  "Greece is the word"!

Maybe Jerry Lewis could even host it!

OK, my sarcasm is spent.  Carry on with trying to save the world.

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 22:27 | 251820 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Jim Bunning will bail out greece !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tue, 03/02/2010 - 23:59 | 251925 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

want radical action?  Send a post card to our greek friends with a "Neener neener neener" on it.  Here is a list of offices in the US:

Wed, 03/03/2010 - 16:08 | 252719 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

OBAMA and Bernanke are featured in a movie-- about greedy hedge funds called "Stock Shock." Even though the movie mostly focuses on Sirius XM stock being naked short sold nearly into bankruptcy (5 cents/share), I liked it because it exposes the dark side of Wall Street and revealed some of their secrets. DVD is everywhere but cheaper at

Fri, 04/16/2010 - 10:00 | 303793 Tom123456
Tom123456's picture

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