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Greek Riots Escalate, Branch Of Finance Ministry Set On Fire
Things are heating up again in Greece. Literally. After a firebomb at a Marfin branch earlier today was the cause of three tragic deaths, the latest building to succumb to rioting pyrotechnics is a branch of the Greek ministry of finance, reports Market News. We eagerly await for the Greek FinMin to announce that the docs burned down were the only copies of all sovereign lending agreements with foreign entities... all $300 billion of them. Perhaps now that Greece has lost all control is why the Greek president Karolos Papoulias just said that "The country is at the edge of the abyss." Luckily for the country, its riot police is not striking just yet. Which is more than one can say about Greek journalists: "Even Greek journalists were on strike, but they later went back to work in order to cover the riots." And that about explains all you need to know about Greece.
From Market News:
ATHENS (MNI) – A building belonging to Greece’s Finance Ministry was set afire Wednesday by rioters protesting the stringent four-year austerity plan the Greek government has agreed to accept in exchange for up to E110 billion in aid from fellow Eurozone countries and theInternational Monetary Fund.
The Finance Ministry issued a statement Wednesday night saying that no crucial documents had been lost, though the damage to the building was extensive.
The fire came on a day when a general strike against the government’s new fiscal plan erupted into violence, leaving three dead and tens of others wounded. In Athens, protesters gathered around the Parliament while some groups threw fire bombs at buildings, cars and banks. The police answered with tear gas and arrests.
The package of spending cuts and tax hikes is intended to reduce the public budget deficit by 5.5 percentage points of GDP this year alone, from 13.6% to 8.1%. It is envisioned that by 2014, the deficit will be brought under the EU’s limit of 3%. But in that same year, outstanding public debt is projected to be an astronomical 144% of GDP, up from 113% in 2009 — leading many to predict that a Greek bond default is inevitable.
All we know is that Lazard, which no way, no how is advising on a restructuring, is scrambling more furiously than the fine folks at Liberty 33 to come up with "imaginative solutions."
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Some like it hot...
This is Sparta.
It used to be. Now it's just an unruly mob. Totally disorganized and ineffective. They're much more like the Persians.
Decadent and on the verge of the end of their civilization.
Pretty much!
No, it's madness.
You will not enjoy this.
Its really quite droll, as the rioters are doing the right thing for all the wrong reasons ! Where can I send donations for more gasoline?
that's a good observation.....it's the reductio ad absurdum of socialism - you eventually run out of other people's money to steal for your own pleasures....so now the thieves are throwing a tantrum....
the government and people deserve each other....
True. Then again, this is Europe -- they throw a tantrum over everything and go on strike at the drop of a hat.
I remember when I traveled through France back in the 80s. The ports went on strike so we had to take a different ferry to England, and once we got there, French truckers blockaded most of the roundabouts in the country for roughly a week
Socialism maybe - but I like to think of it as a ritualised conflict between capital and Labour.
Would you prefer a model where capital takes most of the gains , creates massive consumer credit to sustain a artificial symbiosis and once all capital is destroyed runs for the nearest exit.
Hmmm sounds familiar.
Agreed...but the rioting should be aimed at the kleptocracy political class who pocketed all the payouts that the debt was accrued for. But I'm sure they're already in dollars or gold and out of the country. When that hits here, I'm sure our bankster class will all avail themselves of their 2nd passports.
Greeks certainly need to work more but the government needn't have gone into this level of debt.
At any rate, I don't see this Greek shit as market-positive. Greece has lived beyond means as surely as the rest of the West has and no more egregiously than we.
A false choice dork. The problem is fractional reserve banking.
Dork of Cork, forgive me if I'm misreading you, but are you trying to argue that the nonstop strikes in Europe actually accomplish something?
Have the strikes actually done anything useful ... particularly for European society as a whole?
They seem to me to lead directly to economic destabilization of the countries in which they occur and a reward-for-bad-behavior paradigm that leads strikers to believe they can endlessly milk the system for more and more, and that they can just go on strike whenever they have new demands.
Look at it. Europe is a mess ... A state that's not really a state with a currency that's not really a currency because there's not a real state to support it. It's up to its neck in debt and full of ingrates who demand to work less and less in return for more and more.
Attack the American economic model all you like -- that's a separate issue. The flaws in the American model have no real bearing on the problems in the Eurozone.
Lets see. despite massive popular opposition we bail out the banks, destroy the interest earning ability on anyone's savings, have a fed/Aig/Goldman cover up, have no fed transparency, have no real reform of the system. We don't make the banks take a haircut, chagne mark to market so they have profits (LOL) that get spent on bonus instead of recapitializing. the idiots who caused and engaged in the cover up are still in charge. wehave a president who received the most money from goldman who appointed the chief cover upers, now is actively fighting the best reform proposals. Unlike civilized Iceland we don't get a vote on the matter.
It would appear to me that riots are the default solution to the process of deomcoracy being abandoned to assist in wealth transfer. It doesn't make the greek situation right, but the professionals (bankers) are supposed to know who they can't lend to. after all that is their primary job. determining who can pay back loans. So once more the system rewards those who are proven not to be up to the task they have been employed to do and we face the cost.
So far I consider the Greek response to be rational adn justified. I wish we did it and maybe our own pathetic government would feel they may have to actually do something for the people instead of their corporate masters. When the entire financial system is based upon ensuring those who make bad loans never have to suffer loss the entire finacial system needs to be vaporized.
Hell the fraud is so bad and the government is in so deep they are afraid to prosecute anyone becuase the truth may come out.
this should surprise nobody because many pundits (including myself) predicted civil unrest if the insane scheme that is all about helping the bankers was put into effect.
I have to echo abanana's comment from last night:
Tyler, Marla, can we get a Flag as Gold button?
Agree 100%. Loved it, loved the hat, loved the shoes, loved all of it.
I stated that capital takes all the gains which is expressed in profit , most of wages also go into current spending.
So where is the investment in this cloud cookoo land economy , in defence of the French system the owners of capital recognize that they have to convert some of their gains into manifestations of true capital, not just some numbers on a balance sheet.
For better or worse the ritual used in this mechanism is strikes, now this is inefficient as workers in monopoly workplaces gain disproportionately from this but at least they do something useful for their admittingly short working lives.
The Anglo saxon model is in fact even more inefficient as it rewards bankers for running down capital, doing nothing and expressing this as profit.
Unfortunetly Europe has imported this American Disease and we are now infected with financial engineers and it looks terminal.
Finally you say that the American model has no real bearing on the problems in the eurozone - that is where I believe you are wrong.
Why, well since the late 60s early 70s the world has as I stated earlier ran down capital and converted it into both profit and wages.
Now we have reached the end or at least the beginning of the end, yet America still has the reserve currency.
And what does America do with that privilege but burn the remaining resources and deprive us and the rest of the planet with a now declining resourse base without even a token effort to rebuild capital.
Europe has no choice but to put up massive capital walls to protect its monetary system from resourse leakage - the gifts from the FED were not enough to counter the flaws in the dollar system.
Unfortunetly I fear My country will be caught in the crossfire of a massive trade war between the old and the new world and will suffer perhaps the most in this new age of deglobalisation and regionalism
ML -- you are right in that to this point, strikes have been ineffectual in doing anything other than wasting/destroying output and securing further handouts that placate the mob, but further destabilize the system. However, it is general strikes, mass demonstrations carried out days and weeks on end that have a (minute) chance of forcing regime change, that in turn allows for a (minute) chance for new groups to seize (some portion of) power -- and... oh. Right. I should wake up to reality, and abandon all hope there is ANY chance of anything getting better.
But perhaps we can agree that corrupt politicians and banksters CURRENTLY in control will not relinquish that position until it is pried from their fingers. Little to suggest (yet) that such a turn of events can take place in modern Europe, and even (technically) successful revolutions of the past ended up eventually degenerating into systems like we have today. But is there much doubt that MASSIVE amounts of popular outrage and energy are the only things which MAY make such a change even remotely possible?
Well, yes. I agree. Europe has generally seen lots of disorganized strikes. The strike in Greece is larger but still disorganized and ineffectual. The people won't be able to accomplish regime change unless they really organize and have a clear vision.
The people rarely accomplish anything - the only hope for change is a new elite challenging the old aristocracy.
There is some evidence for this in the states given its traditions but little or nothing in Western Europe - if the core of Europe feels the pain, ( the periphery defaults) then you will see change for good or ill.
Aye, there's the rub... Why would the new elite have interests different from the old, other than being the specific recipients of the largesse afforded by power?
I know I should stop even considering getting my hopes up. But much of what is implied by many here is that the existing (global economic and thus also political) structure will tip over/collapse/disintegrate. The questions are about the speed/location/degree of any sub-units surviving collapse/mortality rate of the current inhabitants. Options are rather limited -- flee the building is about it, as none (I think) of us can alter the fact or direction of the collapse; at least not at this stage yet (if ever).
The Greek population is in a unique position of being on the verge of being able to impact the timing and (to a limited degree) the trajectory of the fall -- and perhaps be in on the ground floor to sort through the rubble. Or at least being closer to direct influence than any other group of people I am aware of at the moment. And they will have to try to rebuild -- or do you think the existing structure will simply be carried over and continued after sovereign default (or enforced indentured servitude of 98%+ of population)? Such times may be the ones which catalyze a society into creating a new elite in the state-building, free-thinking, 'founding fathers' sense of the word.
And think of contagion in a different sense - if Greece's collapse becomes imminent/a historical fact, how would populations in other weak EU states react, esp. if their governments are visibly and obviously engaged in the same corruption (though perhaps more concentrated at the higher levels) as their Greek counterparts?
Even Though I stated that most of the people rarely do anything - the common culture needs to understand the basis of the monetary structure - many intelligent well meaning people have no idea of where money comes from and thus cannot challenge effectively the high priests of capitalism who state that they are the only people who can understand and interpret the good book of economics.
Through a process of osmosis the prevailing dogma will then be challenged.
From your lips to the ears of millions... Now if it weren't so difficult to explain in bite-sized, digestible yet amusing and funny 30-60 second bits... We need (truly) viral videos on Monetary Structure 101. Utter nonsense like the stuff below draws plenty of eyeballs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owGykVbfgUE (avg. 96K views / day)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haHXgFU7qNI (avg. 263K views /day)
Like I said earlier, I should stop trying to hope... But what if (assuming everyone actually watched these clips in full each time) those ~300K man-hours had been used for some creative, meaningful activity?
It takes a bit of spend on the creative, very sharp writer(s) and/or (pseudo)celebrity endorsement. Then incubationary exposure in MSM, followed/accompanied by dedicated seeding of links to the video (the few hundred thousand ZH readers would do a swell job) - and presto.
CD, that is the best idea that I have heard -- all YEAR !!!
what can I do, how can I help? is there any organization here?
I am just channeling occupational side effects here, but glad you like. There is no organization but what we make for ourselves, strictly anarchist outfit in that regard. As for how to get started -- some ideas:
http://econstories.tv/home.html
and the people behind it:
http://mercatus.org/about
http://theproductioneers.com/home/About.html
This is not bad, in fact quite amusing, but like I said, it needs to be under 2 mins. max to reach enough people. Production values need to be sufficiently high to be taken (quasi)seriously, but not so high that corporate sponsorship is suspected. Needs to be a string of videos connected bya common thread/character; so that if anyone watches one, they are likely to click through the other 5-6 as well.
Additional ingredients still needed: 1) economist/finance guru (in the broadest sense of both words) who can narrow down/distill the most poingant details (story of barter -> gold coins -> gold hidden in cave, under guard, with deposit tickets issued -> deposit tickets issued for multipled of the gold stored, etc.). 2) visually creative mind (ad professionals come to mind, creative agencies, animators) WITH 3) writing/storyboard that is either gut-bustingly funny or shocking (the latter only to a limited degree), or incredibly innovative. Powerpoint slides, voiceovers, lectures, graphs, etc. need not apply.
For celebrity punch/tie-in, I'm, thinking YouTube personalities like HotForWords or iJustine. It might even be possible to find a real-life actor sufficiently interested and well-known, and pissed off enough to help, but am not enough of a pop maven to suggest viable ones to approach (Pitt? Damon? Clooney? Eminem?) In any case, that would be the last step, with a fully developed product/portfolio.
It would mainly come down to time and creative talent/resources. The actual production costs are relatively rather low - compared to a TV commercial, say - but still beyond pocket change of individual contributors. So fundraising / sponsorship would probably be needed, to the tune of a few (dozen) grand. Perhaps a prototype series could be squeezed out with just the sweat of the participants brows.
To start with, a team (small, dedicated, 4-5 people max.) with skills and/or connections in the areas above. I talk a decent enough game, but am swamped with job/family responsibilities. If still interested, drop me a line at 18480315 at hushmail dot com, and we'll see what we see.
meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
Hold that thought gentlemen. The Union "leadership" here in the US is cooking up a grand plan.
If you think Richard Trumpka isn't serious about shutting up Administration critics and running roughshod over the private sector with not only Obama's blessing but with his executive power than perhaps there are a few dots you fail to connect. Those planned "protests" are going to be a strong arming of America like we haven't seen in a long long time.
As Leo always reminds us, his people have refined this to an art form. So long as it's only a ritual protest, what's the harm? Oops.
Another good theory shot to hell.
Greece...Greece...Greece is on fire
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKhN0gh0kjY
Perhaps the Greek shorted the insurers before the riots...
Hmmmm.... Now there's an idea!
Balkans, bitches !!!!!
Im so proud right now *tear rolling down the cheek*
I'm eating Gyros tonight.
Cheeseburger! Cheeseburger!
No fries; cheeps!
Gerald Celente on the Greek riots:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlnOv-tVpYw&playnext_from=TL&videos=79WgT...
No Coke. Petsi.
VXX
Beeatches!
Who's paying the police? Why aren't they out there protesting?
The French and Germans are supplying the Police wages although the rioters will have to pay their fellow Europeans for the privallage of a police force that prevents its citizens fom attacking its own police force.
Riot U Long Time @ 30k Euros/year?
Disclosure: Fully vested in rubber bullets and pepper spray.
Pardon me, but is that a slightly cynical variation on the war cry of the Subic Bay hookers? This crowd does get around.
"Rub you wrong time, two dollah."
I never could speak Portugese.
Mako and Wanger sighted at scene handing out leaflets:
"Its just the equation, Stupid!"
"Retail outlook is positive"
LOL
I don't know about any one else but I vote this comment of the day. Bravo!!!!
I second
in the meantime, CNBC (not the Onion) are posting articles like these:
I thought you were joking... Unfortunately, not.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/36963774/
Yes, very succinct!
Southern Europe needs a good little war, maybe its time to dust off the Free Companies, and go loot Greece once they default.
We had one, 15 years ago. Now its time for North America or Central America. They are the longest ones which are war free.
Currently, North America has the Mexican Narco war between the families. Its wacked 30,000 people in the last few years. Thats a respectable body count, when you consider Vietnam was around 60k US losses in a decade of combat, as was Korea in 3 years.
Our current M.E. wars have a current death rate which are barely above expected training accidents, statistically speaking. We have had a Zero Combat death month in Iraq lately. Thats not a war, its just a big training camp using live fire.
I wonder if anyone has noticed that the US now has an Army that is 100% combat trained and its incorporating the new lessons into a new generation of stategies & vehicles. The US military is about to be freed up and ready for new adventures.
Spot on
Exactly!
And this is one reason that - a lot of people don't know this - but France wanted IN on the Iraq invasion at the outset. They only refused when snubbed by Busch.
Combat experience cannot be gotten anywhere else but in combat.
The worst of all possible worlds is if this Army comes home and is used against the population here. May as well throw away your guns.
+EMU bailout number
for managing to write a subtle Schopenhauer reference into your post
Right on Condo. The war machine will force Barry O into Iran now that offshore drilling is a non starter.
Not counting how many of the "baddies" we've killed, in battle, via sanctions, or the drone wars.
I can't put my finger on the next war yet. So many delicious flavors to choose from.
But finding the next battle? Easy as pie. We laugh at Greece. They are not disorganized whatsoever. It is all very well planned. If you haven't noticed the action of the Obama Administration with crap like Senate Bill 3206 and the school loans biz and other thinly veiled actions to enrich the handful of Union "leaders" in this country and their broke pensions at the expense of the private sector and the US taxpayer then you are missing a very big piece of that pie.
Richard Trumka and the other thinly veiled mafia hacks have a different idea of what kind of party to take to the streets. And armed with executive power behind them we are about to see that battle face down the president's critics in ways not seen in America in a long long time.
Tell me about it. I was at Stern in NYC. Countered a prof who was doing the typical lib Bush trashing by saying:
Tell people ahead of time that regime change including the Death of Sadaam and his sons would have cost X thousand lives and EVERYONE would have signed up for it...
Paid for that one at the end of semester.
Yes the Roman empire was in the same position until it stretched itself a bit to many wars- then it fell - Hard.
But your point is not lost or diminished, in fact prescient
The Roman empire didn't have the USAF.
I am a former USAF pilot and veteran of multiple combat theaters. While loud, fuel-guzzling, and impressive at air shows and in the movies, the USAF will never defeat any country from the air. All they can do is further enrage their antagonists, disperse them to find other places to foment trouble (see Iraq > Syria > Horn of Africa), and generally engender a lasting, deep-seated animus towards the US within the general population of the country being targeted.
In short, all the things you actually don't want to happen, re the Law of Unintended Consequences. I guess the Air Force's multi-year ad campaign is working.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/24/AR200802...
Not true, not true. The Roman army stopped expansive wars around 120 A.D., and then spend the next 350 years trying to hold on to what they had. What wore out the Roman empire was the constant civil wars they had every time an emporer died.
Grand Armies are only as good as their political leaders. The best equipped, best trained army in history, with the most sophisticated general staff was thrown away on Operation Barbarossa. Percieved invincibility invites fatal hubris every time. Still, great point though. What will the power elite do with their nice buffed army? I personally don't believe they will fight americans on US soil. South America though? Venuezula?
Yes, the urban combat experience gained in the Fallujah siege in 2004 can be reapplied in, well, let's say, Los Angeles.
alas one will have to wait a bit longer for the North American Wars, till the rivers begin to run dry in the lower 48; only at that point shall Americans look to the north with a jaundiced eye and set out to seize what has always been righfully theirs (unless, of course there is a North American Union in the interim, in which case they will claim the abundance of Canada's crystal clear lakes, glaciers and rivers a bit sooner, and maybe some oil, gold and other "bounty" whilst they're at it)
Isn't that time that originated the word " Free Lance" ?? Wasn't John Ackwood to use them first??
I haven't seen Johns name in ages, ya he was a trend setter...
:) lol. i bet the Squiddy ones did anyway..
Greek shoots.
Lulz. JC, I'm gonna use this!
In the morning we'll burn the banks.
In the afternoon we'll burn the government.
Have to admit they're sporting a hairier pair than we in the US are.
Kinda makes me wish I was Greek.
Beware you wishes mate...You would'nt REALLY want them to come true...would you?
It all comes back to you, you'll finally get what you deserve
Try and test that, you're bound to get served
Love's what I got, don't start a riot
You'll feel it when the dance gets hot
i said remember that
Bend over mezcal, chumbawumba will initiate you.
The rioters should cut a deal with Kim Jong Il asking him to just nuke the place in exchange for a years supply of olive oil.
PERSONAL STAR SHIPS FOR OFF WORLD ESCAPE,
BITCHES !
When do the banks send in Blackwater security? We can't be but a year away from that.
It's kind of funny that they are rioting because they want the government to spend MORE. Their grasp on reality is even more firm than that of Greek politicians.
To a point it is... But I'd be interested in seeing some demographics of the rioters. I'm guessing they're mainly younger people.
I myself am still many years from retirement, so if I were greek I'd be pissed that for years and years retirement ages have been low and pensions have been high. Now they want to rein things in? The younger generation will be paying for the stupidity of the older generations - I wouldn't necessarily be rioting for them to 'spend more' I'd be rioting because I'd be so pissed off that they'd completely screwed me over.
coming to a theater near you
Exactly. When do our riots start? The only riots I've seen in the states are when someones sports team wins a championship.
I love how many of these guys have gas masks.... I got pepper sprayed in a riot once, not fun.
not true, there was that Britney Spears concert that got out of hand
BBC reported Freddie mac needs 10 billion more. that would bring the total to 61 billion. No mention over here yet on our msm. And no estimates on damage from flooding in Tn. Stwange berry stwange!
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2010/05/05/freddie-mac-to-ask-for-10-6-billion-in-additional-federal-aid/
That is just the $10 billion they need right now. I'm sure in a few months another handout will be needed.
It's a hell of a start. It could be made into a monster. If. We. All. Pull. Together. As. A. Team.
Whats the matter with these Greeks? Don't they understand they will have to suffer the stigma of being called socialists unless they work for 0.15 cents/hr for the global wage arbitraging corporates?
Yes with all profits going to the executives and not the shareholders.
Anyone who owns a business should pay their management 100% of the profits. Just be happy to have some paper saying you own it.
I don't recall prices going down when production was moved to China either. Seems like the shelf price is the same, but the tag has a different nation of manufacture. Wonder wtf was the point from my perspective?
Oh well, got to get those executives paid. They and their children really do deserve everything, just ask them!
Update from LaRouche:
Greeks must master Fusion and fly to the Stars!
or else...
They've triggered nasty 5 billion dieoff on earth
4 tragic deaths. One dead woman was 4 months pregnant.
Antiauthoritarians burned workers alive. Marfin's CEO had accused Gvnt officials for corruption.
Protesters (workers that are in agony for they face hunger) demonstrated PEACEFULLY and socialists antiauthoritarians tried to provoce the demonstrators creating chaos so the blame to fall over demonstrators.
Propaganda by media tries to scare people.
Military is in alert, but without real national danger.
No really riot happened like December 2008, when antiauthoritarians tried to burn the Parliament, in a colour-like "revolution".
Major turbulance in Gvnt (the antiauthoritarians in power G-Pap declared after his election win) as the opossition rejects austerity measures.Propably Gvnt has no parliamentary majority.
Greek President of the Republic is decrepit.
Greece is about to have a major political shift because socialist Gvnt covers up fraud and corruption.
Greek people is beeing accused by Gvnt as corrupted, but everyone knows the only corrupted are Gvnt officials of the socialist spectum, that where poor in the 80's and suddently got extreme wealth. EU gave a lot of money for the prosperity of Greece but that money ended in the pockets of Gvnt officials of the socialist spectrum. They burned Greek IRS building that it was about to collapse because of the fire.
Someone is doing dirty jobs in Greece and is going to pay the price for terrorising Greeks.
Macedonian, thank you for your on-the-ground reports. Makes what the people are going through seem much less remote to us in other countries, and from a far credible source than the MSM.
MG,
I am looking for your posts in every story on Greece. Very helpful to keep us informed. My prayers are with you and your people. Have you considered e-mailing directly to Tyler for a guest post as GG suggested?
I just felafel about all this
My butt hurts just thinking about Greeks.
Pictures here:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703961104575225472577513414.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsTop#articleTabs%3Dslideshow
Slide #5: All of the police riot shields are upside down. You'd figger odds alone would dictate at least one being upside-right....
Slide #9: Caption, "I'm trying! The zipper is stuck."
Slide #10: Caption, ...and outside the apartment of Cheech and Chong...
Slide #23: Caption, "That's the last time I have burritos for lunch."
Obviously more captions needed, carry on.
Almost Incredible ! The Wall Street journal is photo-shopping pictures?
Compare picture 17 & 24. Same protester, same prop, but the background doesn't fit.
The even more interesting question is why?
Stupidity on the part of Wall Street Journal for not checking source material? Sorry, that answer doesn't fit.
So why?
I don't know if it's true or not that the police are being paid by other countries, but the Airforce went out on strike last week in protests. Soon, very soon they won't be able to keep the protesters from getting to parliment. Everyone is fighting because they know that they will lose alot of money or all of it because of the austerity plans that are being put to them. I truly don't believe that Greece will be able to force austerity on its population, I truly don't. I think if the money is given to them, they will "try" to do the austerity but like any country or organization that has your money, THEY GOT YOUR MONEY. Now what.
These Greeks are rioting at the wrong time for the wrong reason. Where were the riots when their gov't annouced their budget every year? Is their whole country retarded? Would they rather NOT get bailed out by aother countries?!?
Looked around lately? See anyone in the US rioting over government budgets? It's no better here... Government salaries are absurd, government penions are equally if not more absurd. Just about everywhere runs a deficit, nowhere has money. When the music stops and noones got a chair, that's when people will riot.
I found out today that the school budget is lower, but my taxes are higher. It's a circus.
I could be wrong , but I thought the tea party started for this very reason, with Obama's 887 billion party slush fund - er I mean assinine stimulus.
+1
Just the way it works, I guess. I've fought city hall. It is hard to do alone. I do it anyway.
I know what tarheel means and is....I am one technically by birth. Are you retarded? Bailouts are not really bailouts .... this is ALL retarded. All you can do through this kind of crap is have a cocktail and laugh. And dammit - you are from North Carolina somewhere and we always offer cocktails before any serious discussions and a have sickening sense of humor. Except for the death part - that is sad but whatever, it is what it is - we are in some funny times!
Wiki says it's someone born in North Carolina, but seems a little ambivalent on the etymology.
I had to google 'tarheel' and still not sure how to use the word...
Apocryphal story is from the Revolutionary war, IIRC...a regiment from NC was said to have 'tar on their heels' for the stiff resistance they gave the British.
**edit: my bad, Civil War. Although to hear my 8th grade civics teacher tell it, the Civil War was pretty much Revolutionary War II.
Try this one:
"I'm for UConn and anyone playing against the Tarheels."
they always pay the police, they need them to try and hold down the revolution. they'll probably double their pay soon to make sure to retain them once they have to start shooting citizens
thats what jump-started mugabes hyperinflation into overdrive, printing press runs to pay the police and army, to keep the populace under control
Club Med dragging Northerners down.
More like the Banksters have run out of money to steal from the peasants and are now imposing austerity to keep 'their' golden goose alive....by strangling it.
It's not about socialism, no iff's, and's, or butts. Anybody thinking so is way off. The effect is the problem, the effect. No it's the cause of the problem that is the cause. The cause wasn't their pensions, or working age.
It was the system that took Greece down this path towards bankruptcy, not socialism. The system is greedy, and since they got Greece hooked with debt, rather than notice the flaws of the system early on, it is now the 'socialists' fault. Insane.
It doesn't matter if the country is communist, socialist, monetarist, or capitalist. If it is engaged in the world economy, and the global financial system behaves like this, and rigs the game this much, EVERY SOCIETY is at risk. There is SYSTEMIC problems with our global economics that makes a particular countries political leanings MOOT.
When Europe goes down, so do we, then goes ALL OF ASIA. (although who knows the exact tit for tat order)
It won't matter if your country has never heard of social security, or whether or not you give out the #1 amount in ppp. It's ALL coming down, and it wasn't because of Greece.
When the system is broken, those that were closer to bankruptcy, will go first. That's ALL we're seeing.
The subprime market was the weakest link here in the U.S., Greece is obviously the weakest, or near the weakest of the EU/EMU. AIG and Lehman, and Bear were the weakest. But the black hole the caused this, is still there, and is only being fed by bailouts.
From Greece it will spread until everyone goes down. Because we won't fix the problem, we and the world (it appears is about to) print money to fill the holes that are still there and that will need to be refilled again.
Never say never, so who knows if the FED prints up 20 trillion bernanke bucks for the world we could see dow 36,000. Or we could see 1970 style valuations.
It was never about socialism, or the average people getting more from their gov't. People act as if greece gave gold plated toilet roll holders to everybody with their welfare checks of 1 million euros a month.
Nope. Such lunacy is only reserved for the squid. Yet let's point the finger at 'socialism'. Last I checked, the austerity measures being foisted upon them is 'fascism', ordered from non-citizens.
It has always been WHO and HOW our debt based, fractional reserve, MONETARY system was run. That's the destroyer of wealth wreaking havoc.
Socialism isn't the best way to live, it's A way to live. It's also not so much worse that these guys all deserve their fate. Socialism, when compared to where we are, is something much better than what we currently have.
But capitalism, (which we don't have), would be better than that. Too bad we don't have that, and too bad very few have the balls to wipe out the fraudulent debt. Imagine that, risk realized, in capital markets, for bad bets, that are now worthless. Squeezing blood out of turnip doesn't work too well. That's exactly what the IMF is doing to Greece. Of course it won't work. Only unbalanced minds will think Greece, for any reason, especially because of their system. deserves this fate. They, being socialists, merely spent more, because they provided more, thus when the crisis hits, they're first in line. But make no mistake we're ALL in this line, and it is ALL fraudulent. There is NO REAL reason Greece should be here, other than the rigged, broken system dictates it.
This tsunami is sinking all boats, just the ones in the poorest fiscal shape, sink first.
+1
+2 - thanks for another informative comment to store in my files.
+3 for your first few paragraphs, they are spot on.
-1 for the last paragraph, which kind of blows the whole post. Capitalism is exactly what you have and what caused this and it will lead to global Fascism if not stopped.
So 70,000 pages of regulations enforced by 100 federal agencies/departments is capitalism? Central banking (Karl Marx's 5th plank), the inability to use private property without regulation, the inability to keep private property without paying taxes, losing half of everything we earn to the State; wow, that certainly sounds like private ownership of the means of production and freedom of exchange! Please, the US and the vast majority of the world has been AT LEAST fascist for a very substantial amount of time. There's just varying degrees of fascism and some socialism thrown in there for good measure. I wonder what world people live in to think that a global economy dominated by bureaucrats, central banks, and ABC government agencies around the world is capitalism.
you say nEither, i say neIther
you say Either, i say eIther
nEither, neIther, Either, eIther
let's call the whole thing broke.
Germany should just bail and let those idiots in Greece lose all their pensions. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.
ECB should just turn the printing presses on and give the money to Greece and other Eurozone members in some fair proportion. While the citizens of Germany won't like the devaluation of their currency, perhaps the German government can then use that money to pay down debt/pay bills and thus reduce taxes on the public.
Maybe they can sell it as, "yeah, the money you have is worth less but you now have more of it in your pocket so you're about even." They won't feel the devaluation as quickly as the effect of having more money in their pockets.
Maybe a real stupid idea. Fire away.
Hey Silver
The whole problem is that the Big Shtick of the EUR is: No Printing Press.
They were supposed to be the 'hard money' alternative to the soft USD. All these rules and regulations to make sure things don't get too inflationary, everyone who's a member is specially qualified, etc etc.
That's why the crisis is so bad...b/c now that it's completely obvious that they need to print along with everyone else, and rob their workers and savers (hi there Germany), there's no reason to buy the euro anymore.
In fact, a much better alternative is for the EZ to dissolve and the less solvent members can do their own 'printing' (so to speak - they can devalue).
Time for the annual Pap Smear.
It was there, I took it.
LMAO!
It is fanciful thinking. I am a former officer of the Marine Corps. and I can state categorically we will not turn on our own people. Most of the Officers in our military are from the South and interwest states, and we are the successionists. The last thing TPTB want to do is turn us loose, we may just march on D.C.
Thank you.
That is also my read on it. There is reason the big government types in DC mostly don't like our army, and especially the way most of our army votes. They actually took their oaths to the Constitution literally.
We had this conversation a while back. My brothers, cousins all marine grunts. (south)
Whenever we get together and have a few, the subject always comes up and the answer is always the same. No way we attack our own. Ain't going to happen...
FWIW
From a citizen of the USA, thanks for your service.
Very well put. Jefferson would be proud.
Trouble? 1-800-MARINES
So, if I understand this correctly, they burned down the building where their checks are issued? And who said the Greeks were brilliant?
Greece will have to default, or go into revolution, or both, with the rest of the PIIGS to follow in short pursuit. The demise of the Euro, as predicted long ago by none other than Milton Friedman, is imminent, although tattered bits of the old EU shall likely remain intact (free trade zones, zero customs and immigration, etc.), at least for a while.
The worldwide system is eventually toast, in any event; the credit crisis has turned into a solvency crisis and is soon to devolve into a liquidity crisis, because sooner or later Joe Sixpack is going to wake up and smell not coffee, but the acrid stench of of rancid banknotes held up by nothing but lost confidence. When will that happen? I don't know, but the obvious suspect is petroleum, which can only be paid for in Federal Reserve Notes. If Joe wakes up and has to, say, segue from paying $3.00/gallon to $9.00/gallon (the roughly current rate in the Netherlands, primarily due to internal taxes) overnight or nearly, all Hell will break loose.You need to get intel on small communities that are not failing, are out of the way, and solvent. They do exist. My wife is the City Manager of a city with zero bonded debt. It has a few long term loans, and for its size has large cash based reserves. Its running a surplus even in these conditions. There are safer places to live in this world, you just have to do your research. Look for Growable Land, Steady Water, Micro Climate Stability, Distance from Population Centers.
Was the facility named building 7?
lmfao
We eagerly await for the Greek FinMin to announce that the docs burned down were the only copies of all sovereign lending agreements with foreign entities... all $300 billion of them.
How Fight Club would that be?
Slide...
Illiad, baby. It's all about the barbeque.
The Greek bailout "plan" is complete fiction. Following this plan Greece will be back to 3% deficit to GDP in four years? How can anyone predict that?
Nobody can predict what state the PIIGS will be in four months from now, let alone four years.
These long-term "plans" might look good on PowerPoint slides but they have little to do with reality.
The estimates presented by various parties are quite amusing. An EU commission estimates that Greek GDP will begin growing again in 2012? Based on what, exactly? Talk about wild speculation - I would love to see their near endless list of assumptions made to come up with the numbers. And these entities (IMF, EU, ECB's, etc.) always seem to come up with a single estimate instead of a whole set showing assumptions, "what if's," contigencies, and a list of unknowns.
I guess the answer is that there really isn't any true analysis being done, insead it's just propaganda pushed at everyone with the hope that nobody asks any questions.
Thanks to ZH for exposing so much of the propaganda for what it is.
If they were that good at predicting, they would have known 4 years ago that they'd be here today.
@RockyRacoon
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870396110457522547257751341...
#1 - Vertical with horizontal? And your mascara is truly a mess. No way you can attend the riots today.
#2 - Baseball in scuba gear
#3 - walk like an Egyptian
#4 - En Guarde
#5 - Pull my finger
#6 - Darn it - sunscreen just is NO HELP
#7 - It's all Greek to me
#8 - We've got enough - thanks!
#9 - Spanikopita? No? Perhaps a double espress the?
#10 - Smoke follows beauty (ref. Helen of Troy)
#11 - Man carrying woman "I've got mine. Headed home to default now.
Bearded German terrorist "Dang it, I said "NEIN""
#12 - Fear my flag
#13 - I make butterfly - you like?
#14 - Grease fire
#15 - Just like Trichet, we arrived too late
#16 - I need someplace to sleep
#17 - Time to prop fight for the media circus!
#18 - We burn money faster than you do
#19 - Reporters didn't pay the prop fighters enough
#20 - Fetch, Pikitapolous
#21 - Sees self on news and thinks "Time to buy a longer shirt to riot in"
#22 - We're out of anything but human battering rams...
#23 - Time to tighten up my filter!
#24 - Okay seriously, same guy - different angle. What do you expect from us?
#25 - Dude! This concert friggin' ROCKS!
#26 - It takes a lot of letters to say 'default' in Greek
#27 - Communists without a Che shirt? C'mon.
#28 - A normal day in Athens airport
#29 - Get your money to wipe with
You've taken up the cause... and valiantly as well!
Good stuff.
Later here in CONUS (and the booze takes effect), the comments get more interesting. But truly, the Illiad is all about barbeque; as is The Old Testament. Check it out.
Gotta hand it to the Greeks. When somebody invents Greek Fire. They are quick to copy that strategy and use it as long as it's useful.
Democracy and Philosophy were born in Greece.
Maybe in Greece will born a new kind of society, the society of the 21th century, where individual freedom can be reconciled with rationality, science, and collective interest.
Go greeks, go!
Birthplace of civilization: Greece
Gravesite of civilization: Greece
Beautiful symmetry.
In Greece civilization is born.
In the wake of Greece's final breath civilization collapses.
The Greeks, being EU members will all leave Greece and go to Germany (and France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, etc.).
Gold-Silver.us/forum
There is a vast difference between good government and bad government. Protesting that leads to the death of fellow countrymen is a terrible consequence of incorrectly displaced anger. Anger is an energy. How we direct it and how it affects our consciousness, mindset and worldview is the key. People must respect and fear good authority. The global command structure has pressure points. Greece is presently one of those. A massive shift in identity is sweeping the Aegean.
The proprietary indicators I use can identify trend changes before they occur and they have been warning of a USD rally since last year.
Just posted a new EURUSD chart: showing long term trendline with important support around 1.2770
http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/latest-market-outlook-0
As a member of the military recently reminded me, the U.S. has an entirely volunteer civilian force.
He also mentioned the fact that, currently, the military believes "politician" to be a dirty word.
Wait! Wait! Don't burn the gyros!