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Greek "Rollover" Bailout Proposal On Verge Of Collapse, After Germany Puts Bond Swap Idea "Back On The Table"

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Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:35 | 1429323 snowball777
snowball777's picture

C'mon Europe...get it into your heads.

"Timely payment in full", bitchez.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:39 | 1429343 idea_hamster
idea_hamster's picture

will the market, head currently deep in the sand

That doesn't smell like sand....

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:48 | 1429378 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture


Wed, 07/06/2011 - 10:06 | 1429456 youngman
youngman's picture

"Timely payment in full"

That is what it used to be...now its "we will pay you back...we just don´t know when"

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 10:32 | 1429559 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

"I will gladly pay you Wednesday for a hamburger yesterday."

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 12:06 | 1429969 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

What's the difference between the ECB and a large pepperoni pizza? The pizza can feed a family of four.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 12:37 | 1430088 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

  "In May of last year, German banks and insurers made a nonbinding pledge to maintain about €8 billion in Greek debt and loans for three years."

Wow, just wow.  They made an unbinding pledge, wtf is that?  Is that even a pledge? 

"We promise to probably keep our word"

Jubilee... Grand Debt Restructuring, bitches!

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 19:16 | 1431192 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

Sure it's a pledge.  But one where if they don't keep it, there is no recourse for.  I imagine that so long as they are on the winning side, they will stick to the pledge.  If it loses favor for them, they can walk away.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 10:55 | 1429647 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture



You can pick the day, we'll pick the year.


Wed, 07/06/2011 - 11:23 | 1429762 Thorlyx
Thorlyx's picture

....Business bad? Fuck you, pay me. Oh, you had a fire? Fuck you, pay me. Place got hit by lightning, huh? Fuck you, pay me...

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 10:43 | 1429609 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Some further investigative reporting is needed.

Which hedge funds hold Greek paper?  Do they have a history of acting as a nuisance to such sovereign debt roll-over plans?  Are they involved in the current negotiations?  What is their perspective on how the talks are going?  What type of responses are they crafting for the likely outcome of these talks?

Expect this "Greece plan discussion" to continue well through July until the US debt ceiling talks divert media attention.  By August, all bets are off for Greece, and we will be well on our way to contagion.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:35 | 1429325 oogs66
oogs66's picture

The French plan helped the banks.  Now maybe they will really do something that takes a real hit and gives Greece a real chance.  They may be shocked to find out that most was priced into their shares already. 

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:35 | 1429327 qussl3
qussl3's picture

Markets dont care.

DOW positive on a downgrade, rate rise and increased job cuts.

Gotta love it.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:36 | 1429329 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

I, for one, look forward to more sex scandals on the front of newspapers.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 10:01 | 1429432 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

This can and no doubt will be arranged in short odor.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:37 | 1429332 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

Ah irony: prepare for a massive scapegoating campaign aimed at hedge funds any second, only a diametrically flip flopped one: this time instead of accusing hedge funds of shorting Greece and Europe by being short various sovereigns by being long CDS, hedge funds are about to get bashed in the media everywhere for being... long paper.

Aahahahaaa, this one's priceless!

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:37 | 1429334 Quintus
Quintus's picture

The Euro is dead, that's been clear for a long time now.  Someone please just bury it - it's starting to stink the place up.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:42 | 1429360 Dreadker
Dreadker's picture

Are any fiat currencies still alive?  The Euro is just going to be the first to pop its clogs in the ICU...  The feeding tubes are slowly being removed and the ventilators can't run much longer lol

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:48 | 1429379 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Quite so.  All fiat currencies are, as an inherent part of their nature, temporary and unsustainable constructs requiring perpetual and ultimately parabolic increases in debt simply to continue to exist.  Clearly this is a nonsense.


Wed, 07/06/2011 - 10:04 | 1429448 Hmm...
Hmm...'s picture

All fiat currencies are, as an inherent part of their nature, temporary and unsustainable constructs requiring perpetual and ultimately parabolic increases in debt simply to continue to exist

Hmm...  this is not true.

All fiat currencies PAIRED WITH fractional reserve banking are as you describe.  However, a fiat currency need not be paired to fractional reserve banking.  (clearly they all are at this time).  admittedly, it is unlikely that  our overlords can ever use fiat without eventulaly pairing it to debt.

also: there seem to be two over-arching rules in the currency universe

rule #1:  all fiat eventually goes to zero, to be replaced with either an asset-backed currency or another fiat.

rule #2: all gold/silver/metal-based economies eventually go to fiat.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 10:12 | 1429478 snowball777
snowball777's picture

At this point we're mostly concerned with back-up power for the morgue's AC system.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:47 | 1429370 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Quintus, only because the ECB is fondling the gun, oiling it, putting bullets in and going trough the loading sequence does not mean the Euro is dead.

Yet. It's what might happen that could kill it.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 13:13 | 1430191 InvalidID
InvalidID's picture


 The Euro will be kept floating and Greece will be in limbo until the US debt ceiling is raised and a lot of the short term US debt comes due. At such time the Euro will be allowed to implode, resulting in a 'flight to safety' where the US will be able to borrow a ton of money at below inflation. You heard it here first, now play the game accordingly.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:39 | 1429342 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Curious, some of the things Timmy G is considering to get us past August 2 might be construed as defaults too.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:39 | 1429344 hamurobby
hamurobby's picture

Comon Trichet, its okay,


Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:39 | 1429345 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

There is only one way to recapitalize the system, and it is coming: Freegold.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:40 | 1429346 Jovil
Jovil's picture

Just look at how your assets fare in John Exter's Inverted Pyramid of Assets



Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:43 | 1429357 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Guys, I am telling you.  These details are the equivalent of walking into a parole board meeting, being stopped at the door, and being told there is no budget to keep the criminal in jail.  

You can listen closely and analyse the parole board questions and responses and obsess over the details, but the outcome is already decided, and it is that they are going to bail out Greece.  It doesn't matter how or the mechanism.

They are terrified of swaps and even more conventional contatgion.  They will never allow default.  They will all write checks and GIFT it to Greece if that's what is required.

The details truly don't matter.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:44 | 1429367 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

FOA: "My friend, debt is the very essence of fiat. As debt defaults, fiat is destroyed. This is where all these deflationists get their direction. Not seeing that hyperinflation is the process of saving debt at all costs, even buying it outright for cash. Deflation is impossible in today's dollar terms because policy will allow the printing of cash, if necessary, to cover every last bit of debt and dumping it on your front lawn! (smile) Worthless dollars, of course, but no deflation in dollar terms! (bigger smile)"

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:54 | 1429408 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

As far as I understood FOA and FOFOA they refer to the Weimar & the Zimbabwe Hyperinflation. If history would have to repeat for the EUR, then we are at least five years before the end.

And I don't see a black market for currency yet, it needs at least two years of that, before the end.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 10:11 | 1429475 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Sure you do.  That black market just happens to be gold and silver currency.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 10:24 | 1429533 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Yes, we are seeing this with Greeks and Irish bank accounts. Because they fear their governments going back to own currencies. Yes, we see this with a few Germans.

But NO, at the moment there are even less currency restrictions in the Eurozone than in the seventies, and much less than in the USA.

Gold is being bought by Arabs, Indians and Chinese. We in the western world are not yet there.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 12:10 | 1429977 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

bitcoin.  that's your black market.  the irony that the government itself created the entity that allows it to be possible (the internet) should be lost on no one.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:45 | 1429368 qussl3
qussl3's picture

And the Greeks know it.

Problem is whether they can bluff the Spaniards and Irish.


Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:53 | 1429395 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

LOL hmmm lets see....theyve already tried to bail out Greece like 3 times in the last few months, last WEEKS 'bailout' already a spectacular fail, yet 'somehow, theyll bail it out'....sorry Im not buying it. 3 strikes and yer out, bitchez.

BTW forget the tiny Greece sideshow, how about the US debt crisis which has to raise a couple trillion in the next month or so? I dont care how much they may dislike defaults, fact is defaults loom no way around it.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:42 | 1429359 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Enter Moodys. Rating goes to D and... phase one is complete.

Phase 2(Bringing in the Drachma) to commence shortly. Stay tuned.... or not, it really doesn't matter at this point.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:43 | 1429365 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

This is starting to piss me off. So at the end at the barber shop they want an hair extension?

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:47 | 1429373 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

LOL already Greece back in trouble....what a fucking clownshow!

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:49 | 1429382 WhOracle
WhOracle's picture

I could swear markets waited for me and my wife to come back from honeymoon to continue the show.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 11:20 | 1429747 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

Yeah, exactly what was the point of all the Greek austerity vote drama?

Unless it was just a shot across the bow from TPTB to reminder the Greek populace of their "station" in the order of things.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:48 | 1429377 Ecoman11
Ecoman11's picture

I hope I'm seeing this right

Portugese 10 Year Bond Up 13.847%http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=GSPT10YR:IND

Ireland 10 year Bond Up 7.889% — http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=GIGB10YR:IND



Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:50 | 1429387 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Scary numbers aren't they?  I'll bet Mr Trichet is so very glad he's retiring shortly.  He's probably praying that everything holds together until he's gone so the next Guy's name goes in the history books as the ECB chief under who's watch the Euro collapsed.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:53 | 1429400 Ecoman11
Ecoman11's picture

This should explain it

Portugal's Rating Caught in Greek Crossfire


Wed, 07/06/2011 - 12:14 | 1429990 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

you can say "Guy" alright.  Guy Fawkes.  "next ECB chairman."

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:50 | 1429390 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

Greece is like that ugly girl that keeps calling you and bothering you after that drunk mistake one nighter.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 10:17 | 1429499 snowball777
snowball777's picture

No offense, but we think you played the cryin' game with "Anna Koultouris".

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:50 | 1429391 EasterBunny
EasterBunny's picture

So, the banks are suggesting the solutions which save them from any haircut on their own bond holdings. My view may be overly simplistic, but surely banks are amongst those investors who should be most capable of quantifying and avoiding (hedging) risks associated with bonds and other assets. Advising clients on asset allocation/exposure/risk is part of their business, but they appear to be so bad at it.... This makes no sense to me

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:53 | 1429401 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

America haters blinded by rage don't realize that we are in pretty good shape compared to europe.  Our banks are leveraged 13 to 1.  Top European banks are levered 30 to 1 and more overconcentrated and monopolistic than USA banks.


Levered 30 to one on greek debt that is held at full value when it trades for a 50 percent discount on the market!


The dollar will do fine.  We are known as the reliable partner around the world, not the dithering europeans.  Even the eastern europeans have greater confidence in the USA than the dithering western europeans.  We were there for them when it counted.  They know who to count on in a crises


Character, behavio,r and certainty count.  The USA has it.  The ECU doesn't.  If the  ECB buys defaulted bonds there will be hell to pay by the market.

Wed, 07/06/2011 - 09:55 | 1429411 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I don't see too many eurosnobs anymore telling us how superior they are to us.  Where are you eurosnobs?  Please come back!

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