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Guest Post: Google’s Mysterious Threat To Pull Out Of China - Is A Covert War Brewing Between The U.S. And China?

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted by the Firecracker Report

In an extremely intriguing
development today Google threatened to close down its China operations
after unearthing a highly sophisticated attack aimed at accessing gmail
accounts of Chinese human-rights activists. According to Google the
attacks originated in China and included accounts of U.S. and E.U.
based activists. Google made the announcement today in its blog-post
titled "A New Approach to China".
In mid-December, we detected a highly sophisticated and targeted attack
on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in
the theft of intellectual property from Google. This attack was not
just on Google. As part of our investigation we have discovered that at
least twenty other large companies from a wide range of
businesses--including the Internet, finance, technology, media and
chemical sectors--have been similarly targeted. We are currently in the
process of notifying those companies, and we are also working with the
relevant U.S. authorities.
By labeling these
attacks as "highly sophisticated" Google is essentially pointing a
finger at the Chinese government/intelligence agencies. That the cyber
attack has been elevated to a U.S. national security threat level, is
evidenced by the State Department's involvement, and a statement by
Secretary Hillary Clinton in which she asked Beijing to respond to Google's allegations. A report in the Telegraph offered further details:
The State department said that Mrs Clinton had met with executives from Google and Microsoft, as well as with Cisco Systems, which provides much of China's internet infrastructure, to discuss how to stop countries from "stifling" access to information.

Most interestingly, the Telegraph went on to point out that:

Next week the US is to launch a new technology policy to help citizens in other countries to gain access to an uncensored internet.
Returning to Google's announcement, Google's blog outlined the reasons why Google has decided to potentially pull out of China completely:
We have taken the unusual step of sharing information about these attacks with a broad audience not just because of the security and human rights implications of what we have unearthed, but also because this information goes to the heart of a much bigger global debate about freedom of speech.
We launched Google.cn in January 2006 in the belief that the benefits of increased access to information for people in China and a more open Internet outweighed our discomfort in agreeing to censor some results. At the time we made clear that "we will carefully monitor conditions in China.
These attacks and the surveillance they have uncovered--combined with
the attempts over the past year to further limit free speech on the
web--have led us to conclude that we should review the feasibility of
our business operations in China. We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all. We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China.
We do not doubt the veracity of Google's claims. Cyber
warfare is the covert game nations play, and these attacks are nothing
new. Several U.S. military and scientific institutions such as NASA -
with far more sensitive national security information have been the target of hacking from China. In November 2008, a bipartisan U.S. Commission to analyze economic and national security relationship with China concluded
that, "China has stepped up its capacity to penetrate U.S. computer
networks to extract sensitive government and private information".

However, what we question is the following:

  1. Why is Google threatening to
    close operations at this juncture - i.e. four years after they entered
    China knowing full well that they will have to censor information to
    comply with Chinese government regulations. In 2006, Google seemed to
    completely disregard the human rights and freedom of speech
    considerations arguing that "the benefits of providing increased access
    to information to Chinese citizens outweighed the discomfort of
    censorship". Then why the sudden about face and embracing of altruistic
    values such as "freedom of speech" now?
  2. If the U.S. Government has not stopped doing business with China, despite its Communist status, countless cyber attacks, stealing of state secrets, human rights abuses and lack of freedom of speech and democracy, then why the about face by Google?
  3. The link between the Chinese Government's (implied involvement but not explicitly stated by Google) hacking of gmail servers to extract dissident information and Google closing its entire
    operation in China (search engine and cell phones running on Android)
    is tenuous and illogical at best. While the attacks are no doubt
    serious, we wonder if they are serious "enough" for a company like
    Google to forsake the world's largest internet subscriber market.
  4. So far Google has not had much
    success in China's internet search market having captured only 1/3
    market share. Its chief competitor Baidu.com controls the remaining 2/3. In addition by pulling out of China Google does not stand to lose too much, as pointed out by Bloomberg: "A pullout would deprive Google of an estimated $600 million in annual revenue [out of total revenues of $24 billion, thus a very small percentage] and may help domestic Baidu extend its lead in the world’s largest online market. “There’s no other competitor, so if Google pulls out, Baidu is left by itself,” said Erwin Sanft, an analyst at BNP Paribas SA in Hong Kong". Now Google has to have factored in the scenario that the Chinese government calls its bluff and asks them to "leave".
  5. It is highly unlikely that the Chinese government will acquiesce to allowing Google to operate an unfiltered search engine, especially when Baidu,
    a domestic Chinese player (that the government can control), holds a
    2/3 market share. In the current shaky economic scenario the Chinese
    government will try its level best to keep a lid on citizen's
    dissent. To do this it has unfortunately resorted to severe censorship
    of the Internet banning services such as facebook, twitter and youtube.
    Even so, the Chinese government is not illogical in this endeavor - it
    is well aware of covert campaigns launched by the U.S. government via facebook
    and twitter in Iran to help overthrow the Iranian government. China is
    not about to let the U.S. push the same fate on its own government.
So in our opinion, what all this
posturing boils down to, is the fact that a new and dangerous war-front
has opened up - one between the U.S. and China. Currently the war is
economic, political and covert in nature. The U.S. government knows
that the nations fiscal situation is abysmal and that China holds the
trump card over its fate by being its largest creditor. In addition
faced with rampant joblessness, a weakened U.S. consumer is more
dependent that ever, on cheap goods manufactured in China. While cheap Chinese
imports allow the Fed to keep a lid on domestic inflation, they do
not alleviate rampant U.S. unemployment. Protectionist pressures are
growing on a desperate U.S. government struggling to fix the
unemployment situation. This tussle has led to the imposition of trade
sanctions against Chinese companies on non-strategic sectors like
certain steel and tire imports.
To top this situation neo-con hawks in the U.S. government and military accustomed
to the nation being the world's sole super power, fear the rapid rise
of China. They fear the global domination of a Communist nation and
this in turn has led to naval and airspace incursions into Chinese
territory by the U.S. military, as well as the geo-political
blockages by the U.S. to severe Chinese access to the world's mineral
and oil resources. The current crisis in the Middle East an oil rich
region is a direct result of this strategy.
As the economic situation
deteriorates, these tensions are only going to escalate. While the U.S.
government is not going to start a military excursion with China
anytime soon, strategy hawks know that one way to slow the rise of
China and reduce its grip on America's economic collar is to create a
suitable diversion for the Chinese government. The U.S. intelligence
apparatus, which has several decades of experience staging coups and
overthrowing democratically elected governments across the world, is now staging a similar policy with China.
China's non-democratic set-up and autocratic communist party rule is its Achilles
heel in its rise as the world's leading economy. With China's economy
deeply intertwined with declining U.S. consumption, huge swaths of its
population who are employed in manufacturing and related sectors stand
to lose their jobs. Couple this with the fact that there exists a
complete lack of democracy, freedom and human rights in China. The
Chinese government knows that young unemployed people, especially those
whose rights have been suppressed, always make a deadly cocktail. It
wants to avoid setting off this bomb at any cost. The Chinese
government has unfortunately responded to this threat by clamping down
on information provided via the internet.
And this is the loophole the U.S. government is now trying to exploit
in its pursuit to weaken China. This explains the recent "freedom of
speech" campaign launched by the U.S. to "educate" the Chinese people
to revolt against their own government. Barack Obama fired the first
salvo when he visited China last year where he told a town hall
gathering that he was "a big supporter of non-censorship". He went on
to state that "These freedoms of expression, and worship, of access to
information and political participation - we believe they are universal
rights. They should be available to all people, including ethnic and
religious minorities, whether they are in the United States, China or
any nation." Now the State Department along with Google (whose CEO Eric
Schmidt is a huge supporter of Obama) have joined the "freedom of
speech" chorus, which will only grow louder in the coming days.
We would like to point out to
our reader that we do not support China's autocratic suppression of its
people's freedoms. What we are merely trying to point out here is that
there a deeper strategic (and frankly on some level inherently evil)
rather than altruistic motive behind Google and President Obama's
"freedom of speech and democracy" lecturing. If China is truly to try
to become a global power it needs to willingly unleash democratic
forces within its borders. The Chinese government would be safer doing
this on their own terms rather than have their hand forced by American
propaganda (at which point widespread civil unrest in China is a
given). The Chinese people would do well to pay attention.
 


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Wed, 01/13/2010 - 20:25 | Link to Comment MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

Another China investment pays off big!

Baidu Wins on Google Exit (BIDU)

Baidu. Inc. (NASDAQ:BIDU) is soaring this morning after yesterday’s announcement that Google Inc. (NASDAQ: GOOG) is pulling out of China. This would effectively leave Baidu with more than just the lion share of online web search and advertising revenues in China. Baidu closed at $386.49 yesterday, but shares are up 14.6% at $443.00 on over 300,000 shares as of 8:07 AM EST. The stocks 52-week range is $105.00 to $443.25. Average volume is 1.8+ million shares, but that should be blown through rather quick. The open interest is not 10,000 in any strikes fr JAN10 CALLS yet, but the open interest is over 1,000 in each strike from $390 to $500…. Stay tuned.

"The Chinese people would do well to pay attention."

Yes Mr. Durden. A nation that is only a few hundred years old needs to skool a nation that is thousands of years old... They better listen or else.

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 20:35 | Link to Comment Stevm30
Stevm30's picture

Sorry bud - the Chinese "nation" is only 60 years old.  Hence "listen up youngster"

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 21:05 | Link to Comment MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

PRC, a power structure, borrows heavily from 5000 years of lessons learned. In you effort to dispute you have overlooked the obvious youngsters.

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 21:50 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 01/13/2010 - 21:55 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 01/29/2010 - 10:49 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 01/13/2010 - 20:51 | Link to Comment spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

Yes Mr. Durden. A nation that is only a few hundred years old needs to skool a nation that is thousands of years old... They better listen or else.

What part of "gues post" didn't you understand? 

:0

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 20:57 | Link to Comment MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

"We're all Tyler Durden".

;/

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 21:33 | Link to Comment WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Except for HAWK! Tinfoil alert! Guess what they're trying to sneak through...

http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/08_Hawk/100112.Obama.EO.html

Read carefully Section -2 Functions,  of this Executive Order and you will clearly see how inclusive these functions can be....... especially Item e which has language sufficiently broad and loose that a Tank Battalion could be driven through it.

 

(e) other matters of mutual interest pertaining to National Guard, homeland defense, and civil support activities.

They should just summarize and say General Welfare like the Federalists.

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:34 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Don't forget interstate commerce.  Back on topic.  

The "right" thing usually must find a commercial conveyance..... Plus the current powers that be need to rebuild their "Human Rights" creds.  Tibet will continue to get flushed for the big bucks, but Google can make the splash over "net neutrality".  Looks like the administration is hoping that at least some of the walk n knock army returns....

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/some-bold-and-not-so-bold-macro-predict...

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:16 | Link to Comment order6102
order6102's picture

What age has to do with it? If you apply your logic we all should listen to coalacanth - world oldest fish! 

Thu, 01/14/2010 - 01:31 | Link to Comment caconhma
caconhma's picture

China is a communist country with Asian mentality. It is very foolish to underestimate their survival capabilities.

All these discussions about a possible civil unrest in China are just wishful thinking on part of the western media and politicians. They have passed their last survival test with flying colors.

Just look at their neighbour North Korea.

As for Iran, it is a totally different story. Their leaders are just incompetent religious zealots incapable of running a modern country.

Thu, 01/14/2010 - 08:24 | Link to Comment Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Is it me or is Baidu just Dubai spelled sort of inside out?

Having stolen all the source code they need and generally making Google feel unwelcome, the Chinese government issued a statement today: " Please do not let door hit you on the  a** as you leave."  Do they care? Not a whit. Puh-leze.  

 

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 20:46 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 01/13/2010 - 20:47 | Link to Comment pros
pros's picture

I regret to say I see no other ways out of the present situation:

massive terror attack...all-out war..."we're not paying these (foreign) bad guys, and we're nationalizing your 401K's, pension funds because of national emergency"

forget inflation

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 21:08 | Link to Comment wang
Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:12 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 01/13/2010 - 20:52 | Link to Comment Rainman
Rainman's picture

The smoke the Chinese smell is from the fire of populist pleas for American economic protectionist policies.

Unlike the USA, they study history. So they get nervous.

Not to worry, though. Nobody is biting the lender's hand.....until/unless he one day says no. 

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 20:55 | Link to Comment Doc
Doc's picture

Let me get this story straight:

Google and some other big American companies get hacked, Google threatens to pull out of China, thus the US government is trying to foment a coup d'etat in China through the CIA?

Am I the only one scratching my head on this one?

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 21:09 | Link to Comment MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

The claim is a sophisticated hack ORIGINATED in China.

This means it came from Israel.

Are we suppose to believe the organization in charge of the "sophisticated hack" left a trail right back to the origin? Come on...

Fri, 01/15/2010 - 07:34 | Link to Comment APC
APC's picture

The attack comes from china, so it can't be the chinese.  Hell, it came from china.  So it must be the Israelis.

 

Bit of a stretch, no?

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:01 | Link to Comment order6102
order6102's picture

+1000... 

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 20:59 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

Just yet another reason to be bearish long term.

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 21:07 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 01/13/2010 - 21:15 | Link to Comment wang
wang's picture

So are you saying that Google's  threatened withdrawal from China for reasons of solidarity with those whom China oppresses is disingenuous? But I thought their motto is "do no evil".  Is censorship evil?

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:14 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 01/13/2010 - 21:27 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 02:27 | Link to Comment faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

riiight. that is a funny story.

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 21:34 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 11:19 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Wow. I'd keep reposting. Maybe I'll try it with my paper and see what happens.

Thu, 01/14/2010 - 12:25 | Link to Comment Gwynplaine (not verified)
Wed, 01/13/2010 - 21:51 | Link to Comment Instant Karma
Instant Karma's picture

This cyber warfare stuff is scary. Makes one wonder whether one's digital money will be secure. Or electricity. Back in a sec...off to get more silver, guns, and a generator.

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:41 | Link to Comment delacroix
delacroix's picture

small 900 watt generator (chinese) $99 5hours on 1.1 gallons, get 1 while they're cheap. 9mm hi-point semi-auto pistol $160

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:49 | Link to Comment delacroix
delacroix's picture

small 900 watt generator (chinese) $99 5hours on 1.1 gallons, get 1 while they're cheap. 9mm hi-point semi-auto pistol $160

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 21:51 | Link to Comment Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

"to discuss how to stop countries from "stifling" access to information."

Well, I'm sure the US does no such thing.

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:13 | Link to Comment order6102
order6102's picture

it does, except you don't get put in jail for writing this, unlike in China where you can get killed just for putting line like this on internet!

Thu, 01/14/2010 - 00:54 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 12:19 | Link to Comment order6102
order6102's picture

cao ni made

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:07 | Link to Comment ShiftCTRL
ShiftCTRL's picture

Random thoughts/questions:

Was Google tipped off to get the $%*! out?

Is the U.S. planing a war against China to kill the debt, or is China planing a war against U.S. because it knows it isn't getting paid back?

"Next week the US is to launch a new technology policy to help citizens in other countries to gain access to an uncensored internet." -- What does this mean for Bidu? Doesn't sound too good.

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:08 | Link to Comment order6102
order6102's picture

thats got to be one of the most crappy article on ZH... let me get it right Google is part of the US Govt? China doesn't kill 2M tibetans? War between China and Free World is unavoidable. One way or another. Over-polluted, over-crowded - China doesn't have any choice, but to grow. They took over Tibet, they took over Inner-mongolia, they took over Uighuria. If it was not for India - they wanted to take over Ladkh and Sikim, if it was not for US - they wanted to take over Taiwan. Its beast, and it has to be killed. Free Tibet!

Thu, 01/14/2010 - 02:15 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 03:38 | Link to Comment Lungimaster
Lungimaster's picture

+1

US companies have large stakes in Chinese internet infrastructure. Google benefits from the launch of new technology without having presence in China. Hence US gov shows interest. It does NOT mean Google is part of US govt.

However, you take the argument too far (-1 on that). Every nation/company/individual is ambitious for growth to some extent. China is probably being too blatant at it. Doesn't imply that it needs to be killed. [Disclosure: I am from India and IMO Tibet should be free, and China should be democratic.]

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:13 | Link to Comment Jay
Jay's picture

Thanks for the story. I have the same thoughts regarding point 1. Pulling out of China certainly won't make them less vulnerable to attacks. It seems like they're mixing two problems here. They should have made two separate blogs to avoid confusion.

 

I would like to know how Google found out that certain gmail customers are human rights activists. The fact that Google knows or could find that out makes me uncomfortable. Even going after that type of information seems like a privacy violation.

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:26 | Link to Comment Instant Karma
Instant Karma's picture

Maybe its all deception....fake enemies and fake wars and fake markets.

Make love not war.

All we are saying is give peace a chance.

Imagine.

GOOG is over-priced. Look at the chart, the swing trade is over.

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:26 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 06:42 | Link to Comment order6102
order6102's picture

Dude.. you need to go read a bit more. Taiwan is independent county... at least as of today... If you follow your logic US and Australia should be same country, as they speak some form of English? Or even better, Mexico and Spain? Why not... 

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:32 | Link to Comment carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Yes.

The Chinese are reading the same thing ahmadinejad did. As the Germans so succinctly put it, "there's an empty suit in the White House".
 
My guess is that Hu Jintao was not impressed by what he saw in November. Obama's attempts to lecture to the Chinese on monetary policy would have been viewed as an insult if they thought he knew what he was talking about. As it was they just laughed at Geithner.
 
But Copenhagen told the whole story. Hu Jintao refused to sit in the same room with him during the negotiations.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/22/copenhagen-climate-cha...
 
The US is only useful to the Chinese as long as we are buying Chinese products. If we aren't buying they have no reason to listen to our Bulls**t.
 
And at this point it appears as though the US is being viewed as a chicken to be plucked. Unfortunately for the current administration the prior administration was better equipped to deal with issues of this magnitude.

“As the economic situation deteriorates, these tensions are only going to escalate.”

 

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:41 | Link to Comment Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

"there's an empty suit in the White House".

ROFLMAO. There hasn't been a self directed President of the United States for years.  Many years.  The only difference between this administration and the previous one is how the crumbs are directed.  Look at pictures of Hank Paulson after his visits to China back in '07 & '08 and you'll realize he got laughed out of the room as well.  Hank was just smart enough not to make the meeting exposed to public eyes.

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:39 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 06:38 | Link to Comment order6102
order6102's picture

 I am surprised that you are even registered in this sight. 

 

Clearly you have to post as "Anonymous", so you can't. But i understand, memory of GMAT test and un-ability to register without parents/guardian sign off.. You will grow, and it will be fine. Don't worry, my friend :) 

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:44 | Link to Comment CONners
CONners's picture

How about some uncensored access to a "free" market instead of the Peoples Republic of Wall Street market?

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 22:44 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 01/13/2010 - 23:00 | Link to Comment seabiscuit
seabiscuit's picture

GG is absolutely correct. The US does no such thing.

 

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9894940-7.html

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 23:06 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 01/13/2010 - 23:21 | Link to Comment MarkD
MarkD's picture

Will other countries launch a new technology policy to help US citizens gain access to uncensored media.............please.

Somebody help us.

Thu, 01/14/2010 - 00:47 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Wed, 01/13/2010 - 23:28 | Link to Comment gridlocked
gridlocked's picture

Covert war? Chinese hackers backed by the government have been probing and attacking our IT infrastructure and stealing secrets for a long time. This is nothing new although maybe a public escalation is in the works.

Wed, 01/13/2010 - 23:38 | Link to Comment heatbarrier
heatbarrier's picture

JANUARY 14, 2010 -WSJ

Web Is New Front Among Cold War

Foes Attacks Against Multinational Corporations Would Represent a Significant Expansion of Targets Beyond the Military

WASHINGTON—Alleged attacks on Google Inc. from China redraw the battle lines between the U.S. and its former Cold War adversaries, who are now squaring off on a new front: cyberspace.

The purported attack on Google would represent a significant broadening of Chinese ambitions beyond military targets to include companies that reflect U.S. power on a global scale.

The ambitions of China's military, the People's Liberation Army, in cyberspace have been growing and now include a wide swath of citizen cyber militias that mount attacks via the Internet on behalf of the government, according to recent U.S. government reports.

Chinese cyber spies steal intellectual property from U.S. organizations valued at an estimated $40 billion to $50 billion each year, according to U.S. intelligence agency estimates provided by a person familiar with them.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870467510457500138275482384...

Thu, 01/14/2010 - 00:19 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 00:35 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 00:53 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 00:59 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 01:20 | Link to Comment CombustibleAssets
CombustibleAssets's picture

There is obviously a much larger backstory here.

Chinese Internet activists applaud Google, see no backdown

http://www.kyivpost.com/news/world/detail/56862/

 

Thu, 01/14/2010 - 01:25 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 02:07 | Link to Comment Tethys
Tethys's picture

 

To top this situation neo-con hawks in the U.S. government and military accustomed to the nation being the world's sole super power, fear the rapid rise of China. They fear the global domination of a Communist nation
Followed by:
Couple this with the fact that there exists a complete lack of democracy, freedom and human rights in China.
Is it really only neo-con hawks that fear the global domination of a Communist nation?   Also:
As part of our investigation we have discovered that at least twenty other large companies from a wide range of businesses--including the Internet, finance, technology, media and chemical sectors--have been similarly targeted. 
Kinda makes one wonder if all of these 'fat fingers' and exchange shut-downs lately have been the result of a few strategically placed root kits... events like today's ESHO fun have somewhat of a 'probing for weakness' feel to them.

 

Thu, 01/14/2010 - 03:03 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 03:36 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 04:08 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 05:55 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 06:08 | Link to Comment JacksWastedLife
JacksWastedLife's picture

Who cares in China? What it actually is - a brilliant PR action from Google. Rising such a big question, being contradicted with such big and powerful country! Lot of buzz.

Thu, 01/14/2010 - 07:52 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 08:20 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 09:40 | Link to Comment wang
wang's picture
Thursday, January 14, 2010

Google dead in China?

 

Wednesday, January 13, 2010

What's up with Google and China?
Thu, 01/14/2010 - 10:13 | Link to Comment JohnKing
JohnKing's picture

Google=NSA. This horseshit about google pulling out is just pre-emptive in case China decides to block google, then the "do no evil" company can claim they took the high road. The bottom line is that google cannot crack the Chinese market, they have in fact failed at every product roll out they have attempted, a one trick pony who who is wholly dependent on ad words.

Google shopping=FAIL

Google search boxes for enterprise=FAIL

Google Radio ads=FAIL

Google Finance=FAIL

Even Youtube is financial failure, it is a money losing operation.

 

All google fails are subsidized by adwords which is ripe with click fraud, which is a topic unto itself, rightly shave off 20-30% of total google "revenue" and properly put it into worthless clicks column and you have not so much. Google is the biggest fraud/PR created privacy stealing, government backed surveillance operation on the planet. Do no evil?! hahaha.. The really BIG lie. Just another "smartest guys in the room" PR love fest.

Look, you want to do business in a jurisdiction, you play by that jurisdictions rules, that includes doing business in China. The "smart" boys at google know that and can't win in China, they are getting thier butt kicked by BIDU but hey they will spin it as a good thing when they shut it down, "we took the high road" bullshit and Jimmy Cramer will bring on Eric Schmidt to pump the stock so the cubicle monkeys in Mountain View don't go under water on their stock option plans.

 

Thu, 01/14/2010 - 11:26 | Link to Comment MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

So Google is the next new tentacle in the United Sachs of America. Goldman, Google, Gansta, we likes our Gs.

Too bad capitalism is dead.

Guess this happens when you are at war.

When a nation comes together during a time of crisis, I didn't realize it meant "comes together" like what happens during a good intercoursing. Ah, live and learn.

Thu, 01/14/2010 - 12:01 | Link to Comment bugs_
bugs_'s picture

Yes Google will be a case study for
economics students.  It is a template
for ANY other non-Chinese company
that wants to do business in China.

Google failed to read "Wealth of
Nations" and tried to do business
with a mercantilist.  Google bent
over, sold principles, did evil,
hired legions of H1B, and liquidated
their self respect.

All for the "sure thing" of doing
business in China.  Of course they
were abused, their technology was
stolen, their infrastructure was
attacked, and spammers ran wild.

Ultimately Google gets nothing
what a surprise.  Now they will cry
like spoiled little babies.

Thu, 01/14/2010 - 12:43 | Link to Comment jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

Yes and no.  We're not in a position to talk.  We're broke. Who will listen to us?  Not many anymore.

 

I wonder how much of this is about China's decision to bury the Queen of England's malthusian genocidal Copenhagen agreement.  That too, was mid december, around the time of 'break-ins'.

 

The sad fact is, the communist gov't of China, and whatever you want to label Russia as, and India were the only ones keeping us back from the genocide that was the Copenhagen plan.  Thank god, and you should too - because your investments might have become moot had this agreement passed.  Even if you had 1000 oz of gold, if you have no electricity, no running water, no heat, no food...then what good is 1000 oz of gold?

 

Free speech is great, but only when they are speaking the truth.  Perhaps if we'd all be democracies, we'd be only a stone's throw from a new dark age.  I say let them be what they want to be.  The trend is obvious, more engagment with the world, and more rights for it's people.  U.S. doesn't need to push anything, the trend for China is already clear.  BUT China will not be subject to imperialism, at least not on it's OWN terms. 

 

The people that control America, see Queen of England, is quite pissed that China derailed the Copenhagen agreement.  Only in a free-speech democracy can they spout their bs, get half the population to beleive their bs, and buy off their politicians who will use 'democracy' to further the Queen's motives.

 

Democracy is very good, but has some strong weaknesses.  We've only just begun to see the drawbacks to democracy.  (which is not a reason to abandon it as it IS the best way).  However if every country can be gamed (and just about all democracies were with Copenhagen), then one must realize that democracy itself might NEED other forms of gov't around the world, in order to 'check' us.  The fact remains the ones that saved us from a new dark age (and economically we still may get there), was China.

 

If we lose that, if we force them into the perils of lobbying, we just might be sealing democracies fate. 

 

Thank China, because without it, your life was over. 

 

I just wonder how much spin is out there.  Because one must remember, that the opium wars, never really ended, China knows this, us stupid Americans, don't...which is a travesty seeing how we beat the british to end imperialism here, only to have it return and be what we live under now and think it's the best thing since sliced bread. Except it's what killed our economy, again stupid us. 

 

What happened against google was a crime, but I wonder what the motive was behind it, and whether or not we'll ever get the real story.  We still haven't gotten the correct story about any of the major issues of the past decade 2000-2009.  Everything major, was spun.  Y2k, 9/11, Iraq, Af/Pak,The Greatest Depression, Copenhagen/Global Warming.

 

This thing reeks of bigger implications, but what are they?  I guess we'll find out within the next couple of years, for some, decades for people who wait until the media actually report something.  We still haven't gotten the truth on any of those above factors.  But hey we get to learn (through wall to wall coverage) about some poor woman being killed by her husband every other month.  Sad, but in the grand scheme, not important.

 

Thu, 01/14/2010 - 22:00 | Link to Comment lexalexander
lexalexander's picture

More on this from <a href="http://www.macworld.co.uk/digitallifestyle/news/index.cfm?newsid=28293">Macworld</a>:

"First, this attack was not just on Google. As part of our investigation we have discovered that at least twenty other large companies from a wide range of businesses - including the Internet, finance, technology, media and chemical sectors - have been similarly targeted," wrote Google Chief Legal Officer David Drummond in a Tuesday blog posting.

"Second, we have evidence to suggest that a primary goal of the attackers was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists."

Drummond said that the hackers never got into Gmail accounts via the Google hack, but they did manage to get some "account information (such as the date the account was created) and subject line."

That's because they apparently were able to access a system used to help Google comply with search warrants by providing data on Google users, said a source familiar with the situation, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak with the press.

"Right before Christmas, it was, 'Holy s***, this malware is accessing the internal intercept [systems],'" he said.

To which bmaz at Emptywheel <a href="http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2010/01/13/china-google-attack-and-the...">comments</a>:

Uh, “account information”, “subject line”, “search warrants” and “intercept systems”. That ring a bell? This appears to indicate that the state-sponsored Chinese hackers have hacked into the portion of the Google infrastructure that deals with government warrants, intercepts, national security letters and other modalities pertinent to the Terrorist Surveillance Program. That, if true, could be very problematic, one would think.

Now, this is based upon information and belief, but it is my understanding that Google doesn’t store any gmail data in China, which means that this search warrant/intercept machine was located in the US, likely in Mountain View California

That is, if Google’s Mountain View HQ search warrant search interface/computer was hacked, we are probably talking about the same computer used by the Google Legal Department to perform queries in response to DOJ warrants, subpoenas, national security letters, and FISA orders.

Yeah, if that is the case it could be a problem.

Troubling, if accurate. 

Thu, 01/14/2010 - 22:01 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 01/15/2010 - 12:17 | Link to Comment SABTrader
SABTrader's picture

Actually i have it on good authority that Obama has ordered Google out of China.

The last thing Obama wants is for the chinese slaves to get access to an uncensored internet. If they did they might not want to continue trading with the US. At the moment US consumers buy Chinese products. The chinese get all the jobs but don't get to keep any of the stuff they produce. Isn't that what a slave is?

Obviously someone high up in the chinese system is being kept happy with a big pile of US toilet paper.

Fri, 01/29/2010 - 10:53 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Sat, 02/06/2010 - 08:26 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Sat, 05/14/2011 - 08:01 | Link to Comment isolinx
isolinx's picture

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