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Guest Post: “Stay And Fight”: Is This Realistic?
Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man
“Stay and fight”: Is this realistic?
Before leaving New York, I was enjoying a perfectly nice afternoon
yesterday walking around the Upper West side. When I got to Lincoln
center, roughly at the corner of Broadway and W 62nd Street, reality set
in.
No fewer than ten NYPD storm troopers were ‘patrolling’ the sidewalk
outside in full combat gear: Kevlar helmet, flak vest, semi-automatic
9mm sidearm, and Colt model 933 with M900 foregrip and M68 aimpoint. A
few of them had M203 variety grenade launchers fitting snugly underneath
the barrel.
And to what did we owe the deployment of such unnecessary firepower?
An invasion of the Canadian hordes? Terrorists on the loose? No. Some
visiting politician… clearly an individual who feels important enough to
merit an intimidating death squad in his vicinity.
This is the nature of the system. Police are armed to the teeth… and
while their official marketing slogan may be to ‘keep people safe’,
their real function is to be the protectors and enforcers for the
political class, all while keeping the people in check so that the know
who’s boss.
On this note, we received a lot of comments this week from readers
who reject the idea of considering greener pastures overseas and instead
choose to “stay and fight.”
Reader Jay K, for instance, wrote that “sooner or later you’re going
to have to fight. It might as well be in your own home, city,
neighborhood, and country.”
This ‘stay and fight’ mentality does seem incredibly noble. It
invokes images of Paul Revere and the original patriots standing their
ground in battle against the red coat British forces. Unfortunately, the
world just doesn’t work that way anymore.
There is no real enemy to fight… no clearly defined opposing force
conveniently dressed in a different color like the rival baseball team.
The battle is one of ideas.
At its simplest, the conflict comes down between those who believe
that government is the problem, and those who believe that government is
the solution. Most people are brainwashed statists who unquestioningly
hold the latter as their ethos.
And then there is the big faceless void of government itself…
politicians, bureaucrats, low-level workers, regulatory agencies, etc.
We’re not talking about a single individual here, but an entire
institution.
It begs the question– for all the ‘stay and fight’ people, who exactly are you fighting? And more importantly, how?
Of all the hundreds of similar notes we’ve received from people who
claim they are going to ‘stay and fight’, I am still waiting for one…
just one single email… from someone telling me exactly how they plan on
doing that.
Are you going to go to the polls and kick the bums out? Go right
ahead. If you can convince the majority of other voters (most of whom
probably don’t share your ideology), then you’re just going to vote in
another set of bums.
Politicians are politicians because they either (a) are attracted to
power, and/or (b) think that government is the solution, not the
problem. Replacing one set with another is hardly a credible course of
action.
What else is the plan– armed conflict in the streets? I don’t
understand this fantasy. The people are going to arm themselves and join
together for an Old West style shootout against the police, the people
will win, and then a new nation will be rebuilt espousing limited
government principles?
It sounds like a great movie… but pinning your hopes on being able to
win a revolutionary style victory against a military police state that
has superior tactics, firepower, and combat experience is simply
unrealistic.
Besides, real turmoil in the west is just getting started. Right now
the conflict is in Greece and Spain. It will spread to Italy, Belgium,
UK, etc., and then finally to the US.
When it does, people will find out first hand that the police have absolutely no problems turning into violent thugs… and this police state grows stronger every day.
Truthfully, there is no way to fight a faceless enemy. The government
is essentially the same as your credit card company– no single
individual or front, just a collection of various departments and
bureaucracies.
What do you do when your credit card company raises your fees, takes
your money, provides you with poor service? Do you petition for change?
Do you try and convince fellow credit card holders to demand new
management? Do you stalk the customer service center in Sioux City,
Iowa? No, of course not. You simply get a new card.
This is ultimately the solution that I’m advocating, and I’m here to
tell you that there are a lot of great cards out there in the world.
If you recognize that the trend is bad, at least have a plan to
safeguard yourself, your family, your livelihood, and your assets…
something that extends beyond the unrealistic (voting the bums out) and
the mythical (doing battle in the streets).
It’s time to reject bombastic fantasies and check in to reality. Make
a grounded appraisal of the situation, and if you decide to stick
around, great. Just make sure you have strong safeguards in place, a
plan to execute if you ever deem it necessary, and most of all, a clear
idea of your breaking point.
After all, the boiling frog only survives when it senses danger and jumps out.
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Delusional is assuming I meant walking up in broad daylight and letting loose ..... that would be a moronic approach more akin to what a fanatic Dem/Rep mind slave would come up with. (i.e Gabrielle Giffords etc)
Sniper assasinations by nameless individuals with no known direct motive are rarely if every 'solved' by the authorities. Especially if it is happening on a daily basis.
Each to their own ... I was simply ponitificating and how I thought the masses would respond in the given circumstances ... Sadly they will probably just get on the train and travel quietly to the big hole in the ground.
Lots of people thought of this after the big bailout. So the bankers went out and bought guns. If necessary they will buy bullet proof limousines, walled estates, private armies of guards, whatever it takes.
The only way to stop them is political organization.
The Bankers have already bought all the political organizations and are on the lookout for any new ones that may pop up. They also have bought up substantially all forms of communications (like the internet we are now using, e.g.). They have unlimited resources to do this.
The 800 lb. gorilla that no one seems to notice is the bankers create "money" at will at no cost to themselves. That "money" is accepted by virtually everyone as payment for their goods and services. That "money" is even accepted as payment for real gold and silver specie. One only needs to contact their favorite coin dealer to verify this. All his stuff is priced in fiat, "Will Pay to the Bearer on Demand" FRNs. Try to find anything that the bankers' "money" won't buy. Food? Fuel? Health care? Bullets? Sex? Ticket out of town? "Your" grave site? They own us -- lock, stock, and barrel. More than any slave was owned. Escape? In your dreams!
Government depends on cooperation. When sufficient numbers of people become uncooperative, government readjusts. I saw this happen as a result of anti-Vietnam demos and student riots in the 1960s. Government ultimately responded by getting rid of the draft. Problem solved: No more student riots.
Fortunately or unfortunately, government is not threatening anyone with mandatory service in foreign wars right now, and national wealth has increased to the point where everyone can get by. When people's lives are threatened or food becomes scarce, that's when citizens cease to be cooperative. Till then, if you don't like seeing armed thugs on the streets of your town (who does?) the best you can do, short of emigrating, is opt out. Move to a remote area (Northern Arizona was my choice) which no one cares about. Stock up with some supplies. The usual stuff: rations, silver coins, ammunition. Then enjoy life, and wait.
The Taliban stayed and fought. Seems to be working out ok for them. Ya great they are heavily armed, so what? They are easily identifiable. Watch a video from Greece and stop being a bitch. Unarmed civilians with fire extinguishers, rocks and Molotov's 1 Cops 0. Also haven't a large segment of the police in the states recently been fired? They look big and scary, but they will crumble. The Brits got kick out of India by a little bald dude and a bunch of people willing to take a beating.
Tell your story walking. (>_<)
Iraq has had circa ~750k - 1.5 million casualties so far.
Afgan - circa 30k - 120k.
Yes, so when you can stomach that kind of fight, and not wet your bed and run to the mall, then you get to play tough on the intarweb.
Otherwise, fuck off.
Good reminder. Afghans, Iraqis are a different meddle than US citizens.
I get to play tough as a Marine Commando reserve, skills are transferable. 99% of the guys I train with feel the same way. What do you do in your free time?
Greek Causalities? Spain? This whole 'its going to be armageddon on the streets, so I best not get involved' is the sound of the weak willed. Stop being a pussy and get involved. If your in the UK 30 June we'll be having a major demo. Otherwise join the clown who posted this and tell your story walking.
It sounds to me like you're one of those that are trained, conditioned and owned (and mind-control, brain-washed) by the bankers and "The Royals". You will be one of those obeying his orders to shoot into the crowd of "terrorists" or you will be court martialed. You sound like you may be one of the enemy or at least one of the enemy's dogs.
It sounds like you may be unwittingly advocating that the "pussies" stop being "weak willed" and "get involved" and learn the best ways to eliminate people like you with force and violence. Do you have any sources for ammo besides the official, banker owned ones?
End the police state - Ron Paul 2012 ftw.
The only anti TSA, Patriot Act, Big Sis candidate.
All the others love the police state.
[including Michelle "IRS attorney" Bachmann , who voted for the extension of the Pat Act]
+1
Yes, but Libertarians for Prosperity (Old RNR) and thefatasswilly both say it will be like Somalia with Ron Paul in charge. You know, we can't have "radical" ideas like this when things are going so well in the USA.
need a hacker to list names and addresses of cops, cia, fbi, tsa agents! that would level the playing field, isn't that so simon?
Now that is a realistic suggestion that could have wide ranging effects. Better still publish on a blog (from Iceland or Sweden) with a ranking order determined by users. Then each person could look up and find a 'World Most Wanted' in their local area and ....[insert individuals desired response]
Make your resistance a tacit part of your everyday life, like getting up and making coffee in the morning. Surround yourself with people who see what you see.
95% of the population are contaminated beyond redemption and are already gone. Trying to wake them up is a waste of time.
Some people say that there are people waking up. But they are nothing but lab rats in an experiment that have no idea who is inflicting pain on them. They feel the pain and get angry, but do nothing to change their predicament.
The fool losing his house due to foreclosure knows something is wrong - he's losing his house. The guy losing his job knows something is wrong with the economy. But try talking to him about this stuff and his eyes will glaze over.
In fact, you try this and you will see "backfire" first hand. Not only will that jerk who is losing everything cling on to the old system, he will get indignant if you try to wake him up and blame you for the misery he’s feeling. Your thoughts would be considered subversive and a cause of the economic maladies plaguing the country.
The sheep like their servitude. Freedom comes with a cost - one has to start working and thinking, and that is just too much for Americans.
Revolution starts with adjusting your life first.
+1 you are correct, 'they' are so used to the current metric, that they cannot see past what 'we' see is going on.
It's disgusting what a nation of self-centered pussies we have become.
If you care so much more about your own comfort than fighting for Liberty that you will run like a scared little bitch, then you are not needed in this nation.
The more that leave, the better.
By this very comment, you have ridiculed yourself. The point of the article posted by Simon Black was precisely to show that the people yelling "I will stay and fight" are actually either pussies who will never follow through with acts, or delusional nutjobs.
It's good to say that you are not a pussy ; better to actually propose a plan of action with a probability to work.
Only those two options?
So, no one in this nation will actually put up a fight?
Dang, I'm under no illusion that I could go it alone... I'd better leave soon!
What country do you suggest that I book tickets to and live my new life of freedom?
No one has put up a fight so far and we're halfway to tyranny. What's the tipping point for you? People, like most barnyard animals, are easily cowed by the weight of consensus. I think we're looking at this from two different angles. You think that the longer this goes on, the more people will "stand up and fight." I think, the longerthis goes on, the more passive the bulk of society will become, or the passive bulk will grow larger by percentage. That's why well orchestrated tyrannical takeovers always start with economic problems - to sap people of their will.
duplicate
duplicate
well again, it's the structure of the republic itself. elections every two years. it's a heck of a surrogate for violence. The presidential election itself is a surrogate for revolution. I guess we'll have to see whom the people elect in 2012--but one thing is certain: citizens deserve the governments we elect. I don't mind dealing with a depression. it's the political system (as originally envisioned) that I would like to see survive. In the mean time generic conversation on the streets where I live is turning to fiscal/monetary policy, even by supposed sheeple. The level of awareness highest I've ever seen in my life.
In the mean time, people prepare...but for all of the quantitative easing and greek bailouts, we get closer and closer to the Nov 2012 election. The unintended consequence of all of this easing is we might actually make it 17 months to another election, then I guess we'll see what happens.
I was telling my wife that from the top down (obama and co.), they are absolutely doing a very efficient job at locking down liberty and getting ready for implementation of fascist tyranny. But from the bottom up it's falling apart from them. From that direction the progressive edifice is in collapse. And now we have possibility of a real nullification in the form the texas making criminal the tsa's pat downs. and a major loss for unions in Wisconsin. I tend to see things as falling down for progs faster than they can lock down the system. and this is from a guy who's all about preps I guess that behavior (prepping), where it exists, is another example of the progressive edifice collapsing from the bottom up. and we have more time til the election....
There was an analysis out a few days ago about how the US politicians will keep the music going on the musical chairs until after the (meaningless) election. I hope they're right. I have just a few more years before everything falls into place for me. Here's to crossing fingers.
If (when) the dollar collapses, there will be a long "bank holiday" and supply lines will be cut when the truckers won't roll. The cities will be a mess and definately not the place to be. People in rural areas will have problems with hungry people that escaped from the cities and their neighbors that didn't stock up with provisions. I considered moving to a rural town but the idea of stockpiling ammo to probably have to use against my fellow citizens to protect my food wasn't my idea of the relaxed retirement I worked so hard for. So call me whatever you wish for becoming an ex-pat, but think real hard whom you'll be "staying and fighting" against. When the SHTF, will it be ZH'ers and patriots that march on Washington D.C.? I think it'll be the masses that got their government goodies cut off and won't leave until someone gets in power that'll give them back, and again you'll be in conflict with your fellow citizens. No thanks, I'll just wait it out here in Thailand because I think Simon is spot on.
Truckers will roll. That phone will ring and both of us will be "Federalized" and as the story tells go, you will have closed interstates to just trucks only under escort so that food and other goods will reach the cities West to east. You will drive until you drop and drive some more.
Rumour is "W" and his fellow neoconmen are buying large ranches in Paraguay.
I'm not sure that it is fighting that is called for,
rather more a case of ignoring the system.
Have you stopped your cable?
Have you ditched your TV?
Do you STILL use credit/debit cards?
Are you still flying?
There is a lot one can do if you make up your mind to spend the time to do it.
Pay off your bills, close out your debts or go bankrupt to end them.
Make a choice for a life sans system 'perks', and do your best to live it.
So all the Iraqis who fled to parts elsewhereafter 2003 (esp. Iraqi Christians) are "self-centered pussies?" The Russian Jews who fled the Cossack pogroms and came to New York were "scared little bitches?" The Pilgrims who couldn't find their brand of religious freedom in Merry Olde England were both?
Shouting "USA!" is not going to give my family peace and prosperity now that everything (starting with the economy) is falling apart. Do I hand my daughter an apple juice box and say "Let's go to the park, honey, and if you get you homeowrk done today, we can go to the aquarium this weekend." Or do I hand her a bandolier and belt-fed machine gun and say "Go get 'em, tiger. Make Daddy proud," and have her set up an ambush on a narrow mountain pass, just so you don't call me a "self-centered pussy." Far from being self-centered, I have had to give up everyone and everything I love, including the nation formerly known as the USA, to give my family that the Founding Fathers promise, but their progeny is no longer capable of delivering. It's not my comfort, I'm concerned about, it's my family's peace and survival.
I wish I had a belt-fed machine gun to give my daughter. She would shred anything encroaching on your hypothetical "narrow mountain pass".
Maybe that's why the Jews and Pilgrims and Iraqis had to flee... Not Enough Firepower!
Americans aren't really that lacking. Not many 50 cal's, but civilian Americans are by far the largest army on earth. I read somewhere that licenced Pennsylvanian deer hunters would be the 4th largest army.
Run away and take care of your family like a pussy would. It's not about you, it's your family. That's not self-centered at all!
I'm sure that after the collapse is over, you'll be on the first flight back to take advantage of the Freedom and Liberty that others fought for...
Yup... self-centered pussy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-TC2xTCb_GU
That's why the White Russians stayed around and fought. And died in droves. Freedom (such as it was) never came back to their land and no one is looking to moveback to Russia. I, and probably my kids, will be long dead when freedom is restored in America, the way it was in, say, the 19th century.
I mean, do you envision a state of martial law, a 15 minute fire-fight, and then a bevy of neo-Jeffersonians emerging from the dust clutching the original Constitution and reforming a government based on it from sea to shining sea, all in time for the hourly commerical break?
The country will be lucky to survive intact and not broken into constituent parts. If it doesstay together it will only be with a strongman or an all-pervasive government forcing it to be so. I love the idea of the "Redoubt States," and that actually worked for the wreched, marginal hinterlands that Mao hid out in during the Japanese occupation, but the rest of China broke into warlord states. The Soviet Republics broke into constituent states that were, for the most part, as economically or politically blighted as the USSR was.
I don't have a crystal ball and neither does anyone else, so just like in high school math class, when I can't find all the numbers to plug into the equation, I drop out of the class.
And let's be clear here. The soldiers who fought and or died for the USA in WWII were fighting for a different USA. Not this one. If you assert that we stormed Normandy or Okinawa for TSA groping rights then you are a fool. Countries change, even as names stay the same. Germany under Bismarck was different from Germany under the Kaiser in the Great War,which was different from Weimar, different from the Nazis, different from West Germany, which is different from post-unification Germany. The US is no different. Same name, different country. Just like I would have fought for Bismarck's Germany but not for Hitler's, I would fight alongside the WWII generation, but will not lift a finger to fight for what the USA has become.
Wow...
You are not just a pussy, you are a rather dim-witted pussy:
Which part don't you like? That I hate algebra and have made my way comfortably without it? That Germany after unification was a powerful, pragmatic, industrial nation? Or the fact that I think you've been more than a little influenced by televised heroic epics and haven't seen what a real modern revolution looks like on the ground?
Edit: I didn't junk you. That's not Vlad's style.
Selah:
You are a sorry apologist for everything rotten about the current system. People like you will become fascists defending it, being brainwashed into thinking that you are doing it for "freedom" even while hanging yourself.
Go back to your cave, and let the rest of us get on with our lives.
Vladdie laddie, while the gist of your post and it's heart is spot on, truth be told WWII was as big a scam. There was nothing heroic or great about that war, or any other war really.
And what your antagonist is sayign here is equally silly. This is not even your land really. Young country. Slavery and native american genocide are still fresh wounds, relatively speaking.
On top of which, a nation-state is a false and un-managable construct, which is why they are constantly teetetring on the brink.
So, jingoism, which is a natural outcome of the programming around the "Border" of the Hom/Father/Mother land, is/will come to the fore.
It's all a scam and has been for the longest time.
We will each do well to find our own inner peace, without which any outer "victory" is without meaning.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/06/17/nuclear-american-cross-other-thoughts/
I think I know what you're saying about WWII. My point is that the factors that made America what it was then and what it is now are very different. I don't think any war is heroic, so please don't get that impression. It leaves people broken on all sides. One could read Patrick Buchanan's "The Unnecessary War" on one side and Max Hastings "Armaggedon" on the other and understand the futility of the whole exercise. One of sanest individuals who analyzed the war (WWII) in its aftermath was your very own Radhabinod Pal, who I am sure you are aware of.
I've been waxing emotional these last few posts so I apologize if I've strayed from logic and fact. I think everyone is clear where I stand and I have some bookkeeping to do around here.
ORI, very few knew what WW1 and WW2 were really about. The history books and education system of the second half of the 20th century did a stellar job of disinformation and subtefuge.
Of course! It was all because of an Archduke and then a nasty little fellow with a moustache!
How absurd.
Precisely e_m. Precisely.
The victors always write history. It's almost an axiom, ne?
ORI
+1 From a vet
@Vlad Tepid
Heartfelt post...I am in same boat...if it weren't for my elderly mother and young daughter, I'd flee this sinking ship! Feel like a mouse trapped within holding on to a partially bitten, dangling piece of cheese...
Thank you. I don't have a bitter bone in my body for those who choose to stay and try to change from within, but often they ruthlessly attack those who make other decisions as though they are traitors to the cause. I guess I just bought into the "liberty, to ourselves and our posterity" concept a little much and can't live somewhere where I don't feel free and safe.
I completely empathize with your situation. My folks (getting up there in age) must look after my grandmother and would already be gone if it weren't for that. The cheese for them is that their piece might not evaporate any more than their pension/401k already has and that their only home isn't taken by the banksters. I had some transformative experiences as a youth a decade ago and thought I saw what was coming and have been working on that ever since. Please don't think I'm disparaging those who choose to or must stay. I am prepping overseas for my extended family as well if their circumstances permit. In the meantime, just raise your daughter right with notionsof what the US was really founded on. She may be able to make the choices that you couldn't. I pray that we have that much time. No...I pray that I am totally wrong and have made a big mistake in relocating.
Vlad, I agree 100%. Unfortunately, most people living in the US seem to be too indoctrinated into the system to get it. Better to get out while you can (if you can). Avoiding the steamroller is going to be tough when the time comes. I'm sure Jose Guerena would agree.
.gov is a house of cards.
One good fart from Mr. Market and its over.
*sigh* more dichotomies..........
A rebellion can take many forms, not just the "all out civil war"-variant which a lot of people seem to prefer here. And some of those variants do not require winning against the military. Unfortunatelly, it's hard to know far ahead of time how it will play out. Fortunatelly, you do not need to know this ahead of time, because you do not need to make the decision now: Emmigration is usually NOT banned at the beginning of conflicts - if a lock-in happens, then it typically happens significantly after it has become obvious how this will play out. Thus, if you have made plans and arrangements to OPTIONALLY leave the country if necessary.... then you can simply stay, wait and see which form the endgame takes.... and THEN decide to leave or stay. Just be sure to have made all necessary arrangements before, so that you can leave quickly if necessary.
And you are as brainwashed as everyoine else, because you still believe in this age-old protector-rebel dualism. Oh, wow, here we have rebel #904328043280985044325 who thinks that he is anything special and out of the matrix, when precisely this setup: protectors vs. rebels, pro vs. anti, conservation vs. change, and all the other terms for essentially the same thing.... has existed for millenia. And every time the anti's think they're about changing anything about the setup, when in fact they are part of it. You moron, are the reason for oppressive governments - and oppressive governments are the reason for you. You two retards will fight forever, while never ever changing anything about the fundamentals, because ensure precisely those fundamentals!
No, what this is about is not deciding between state XOR population, not deciding between collective and individual, not deciding between conservation for its own sake, and change for its own sake. Rather, the inverse is the case: The conflict between state and population, the conflict between collective and individual, and conservation for no reason, as well as change for the worse, ARE the problem.... and you are 50% of it.
If you still didn't get it yet, then let me express the inverse as a question: Would we all be so dissatisfied, if there would be mutualism between "coordinating body" (state) and the population - so, both working cooperatively together instead of trying to cheat each other? Would people complain, if collective features were used to strengthen individual power, and if individual power in turn were used to strenghten the collective? Would people complain, if we just "conserved" stuff that makes sense, and changed stuff for the better when something doesn't work?
I know, the immediate reaction to the above proposal, will be "That will NEVER happen! It is impossible! Both always try to fuck each other over - this is totally naive and ignores 'human nature' (whatever that is supposed to be)". See, thats precisely what i'm talking about.... you believe this.... you believe it so hard, that it must be this way, that you will forever work to ensure what everyone is pissed about.
Trivia: If it really has to be this way, and there is no other way.... then why do you even bother about what to do about it? If the premise is that "we're fucked", then what is there left to do? MANAGE it? Compensate it?....... oh shit........ oh, and as for those fucking braindead anarchists out there: Just because you call something different, doesn't make it any different. I don't give a fuck if i get a tyrannic gov, tyrannic megacorps or a handful of tyrannic oligarchs.... and may i remind you? Everything a "state" can do, can also be done by powerful megacorps, or a powerful rich elite.... in the end, its simply a bunch of individuals with lots of power, conspiring to force their will on others... it doesn't fucking matter what they call themselves. And THIS, will always happen as long as what you call "human nature" is the mindset.
That is the root of it all.... not ideas, not fucking symbols...... but a certain popular thoughtstyle and mindset, which has spread to infect all civilization.
As for your rather strange argument that there is no one to fight.... i'll leave that for others to debunk, since this post has already become rather long.
"it doesn't fucking matter what they call themselves. And THIS, will always happen as long as what you call "human nature" is the mindset."
Actually it matters greatly to a public that has been psychologically abused from age 5. The horribly crule ruse that is "we are the government" is a cancer. The fact that they have sold Democracy to an unsuspecting mass of humanity is all too critical, for calling themselves a democratic government provides a false perception of legitimacy amongst the sheep. Instead of rightfully assessing the situation as us vs them, the sheep yearn to simply elect the right people. If they could no longer call themselves a democratic government, their naked aggression and violence would be impossible for even a sheep to overlook.
After all since "we" are the government, it's suicide not murder right?
Agreed, for propaganda-reasons, it matters if something is called what it is, or is called something else.
(and as i wrote in another thread, i consider the current representative democracy much closer to dictatorship than democracy. Yet the megacorporations make it more like a plutocracy than a dictatorship. Yet, the megabanks again make it more like a global dictatorship than a plutocracy...... ah, fuck, its basically a mix of the worst of everything, and none of the good)
P.S.: Personally, i do not support a "government" as most people think of it. I also however am not an anarchist, because IMO a way for people to coordinate themselves will always be needed, and once one reaches certain scales, this no longer works on a per-individual basis. However, i think that such "coordinating bodies" do not need to "rule" those on the lower scales, but can simply be there as a tool to provide coordination which people agree with. So, in the big picture, a gov which's policies are only valid as long as not large parts of the population disagree.
Such a setup would mean that any policy requires mutual agreement: If the gov does not put up the option, it cannot happen. And if people reject (not talking about stupid elections) it, it also cannot happen. Thus, both would need to cooperate to come up with something with which both agree.
Until humanity changes, history will repeat itself.
I'm one of those who can't leave. And I'm not sure I'd want to even if it was feasible. If history is any guide, there is no locale that is insulated from tyranny. This is my home. I still believe there are enough of us who value individual liberty and will fight. In fact, we are already fighting. And the fight is slowly escalating, as I see others' are here on ZH and other blogs. So yeah, Simon, it is realistic.
The fact that the enemy is 'faceless' is testament to the fact the enemy is psy-ops. Without a real foundation it will collapse like the Soviet Union. The rest is fuzzy in my 'crystal ball'... But, much like a blank canvas, it's yet to be written. There's hope and it's real.
Though I hope you do well, and have appreciated some of your writings, I'm glad your defeatist attitude leaves the country with you.
Yep, if you think we can't fight back against a faceless govt and are afraid just think what those govt powers feel against a faceless public who has had enough of this terrible mismanagement of the people's funds and resources. They are scared shitless. ie, TSA HS ect. It won't be enough when the time comes.
Great post Shell Game. I can't leave my mother or my grown children, turn tail and run. There are few revolutionaries now, but that will change. Besides, i have friends who have lived in Kosovo for decades. Life isn't pretty, but they carry on.
Though I think the fight is realistic, the most difficult part will be filling the subsequent void. Generally speaking, I tend to believe there will be one of two outcomes. Either the entire country unites under a reduced government, free market economy, true gold standard currency and no fractional reserve banking. Or, the states split.. Too many believe in the above to accept anything else after collapse.
+1
Shell Game,
This was my exact sentiment, until I started to realize that the radiation fallout from Fukashima would be pounding the northern hemisphere for at least a year, if not indefinitely. Tyranny can be resisted for a time, but radiation catches up with you. And in my situation, raising a child with the overhanging threat of radioactive poisoning, it aint worth it to stay. That just ain't any kind of childhood.
I hear you, knave. I live on the west coast and am considering moving to MT or TX to minimize fallout exposure to my family. From what I'm monitoring the levels are still at background here. So far..
At any rate, I honestly don't blame anyone for leaving the U.S. But it does bug me to read defeatist crap from Sovereign Man on a prominent site like ZH. We have more power than 97% of the population realizes..
I find it hard to believe an army of police will stick around to fight people if they're not getting paid.
This thing will go down when the dollar does..
The most broke States in history have always managed to pay cops and soldiers, even when there were physical goods shortages. They do it in priority.
They usually proceed via money printing, or requisitions.
Sorry to spoil the dreams of libertarian, anarchist lunatics, but even in Zimbabwe or Weimar Germany there was still a functioning law and order application. No sane government would cease to pay the very people that maintain it.
What best to do then Hamy? Be a Benedict Arnold piece of shit like yourself that will would rather become an informant and rat everyone out in your neighborhood?
Lots of bullshit from your mouth, and no solutions offered. Typical.
absolutely true, it is usually the need to keep doubling their wages to keep up with inflation and keep them happy (to brutally put down dissent) and printing the money to do so that really kicks the hyperinflation into overdrive.
they have managed... right up to the point where they didn't anymore.
no, once a regime gets into that stage, the condition is already terminal. contraction into this kind of police state is one of the signs of a dying empire. One could hardly do anything to damage it any more than it is already destroying itself. Hell, you could dedicate your life to trying to preserve the status quo and it wouldn't make a shit of a difference- the empire is dying, and actually it's doing most of the job to itself. Thats just how empires go, and once they pass that critical point, there's no going back.
History shows us that it is no fun living through such a time, but, there is nothing anyone is going to do to meaningfully prolong the empire's time on this earth. Yes, to the very best of its ability the empire will try to burn everything else down before it burns down. Try to protect yourself, your family, etc, and realize that in such times getting out with your lifes, your family, your health, and your humanity all intact, will be quite enough. Don't anticipate keeping much wealth through such a time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOue0Ifo9sk&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWMLDpE02-Y&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0X1Acrty6E&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3cT_EoxV4c&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2BfqDUPL1I&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1IxFdln7ZM&feature=player_embedded
http://www.wagist.com/2011/dan-linehan/ ... gun-owners
http://www.rutherford.org/articles_db/c ... ord_id=715
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng6mfpZ2kR4&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3kNcGbJUtY&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYv6RMbuxfc&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5Hj4yM770s&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zdp-2FxSHW4&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7RrTeWzgFg&feature=player_embedded
Pick one. They all tell the same story.
Great list.
These personalities love their power. They love it.
http://dogmurders.wordpress.com/
I'd be remiss if i didn't add this to the list.
Run if you want. I will stay and survive. If, if, I I am pushed to fight there will be no gunfights in the streets; no glorious exchange. I will send my family to relatives. Then I will pick my enemies one by one, high and low no matter, I will come in the night, I will burn their houses down and slaughter their families with them. If I am forced to fight, and I pray that day not come, I will not fight their way... I will attack them where they are weak, when they are alone, and when their families when unprotected. I just want to be left be, but endanger my family's well being, and a cold blooded predator will be let loose.
My thoughts exactly. Well said.
Make sure those relatives you're sending your family to aren't across an international border. Otherwise people will accuse you of running.
How would your family's well-being be endangered if you could just send them to relatives to be safe. And if you go Rambo, you think that the survivors of your "Falling Down" rampage won't track your family down to their hidey-hole with grandma 350 miles from the scene?
If they come into my house before I'm finished packing, they'll see the cold-blooded predator. But what good does it do me to "save" my family and then go back into the maelstrom and deny them their father? I admire your balls, but your logic, not so much.
Sounds like a fun way to spend your life.
I agree wholeheartedly with this article. I think many will stand and fight because they are here or caught here at the wrong moment. Those who can plan and actually expect the worst will be gone. I was watching HGTV where someone was moving from the U.S. to Ecuador. I couldn't believe how lovely and inexpensive it was. My mind raced to the thought of putting enough away...outside my highly regulated and penalized 401k to be ready to escape. Here are a couple points I throw out for thought.
1. Fighting is a multipart problem in two phases. Phase I you destroy the old. Good for you. Phase II, you have to build something that enough people agree on to be better than the system you burned down. I find a lot of people know generally what they're against but no clue what they are for or should be for to prevent a recurrence of the problem. It's like a plane going down and everyone clearly recognizes the problem. 100% agreement on being against the plane crash. Now ask everyone what should be done. No clue and even the guy/gal that knows may not get to do it.
2. As the article says, there's nothing to fight against. I am so spitting mad some days I want to fight, to box, to swordfight someone or something so I have a damn chance. However, the bureaucracy is nameless, faceless, amorphous, impossible to pin down...and relentless. They will grind you down in a thousand memos, rules, desks, procedures, forms. phonecalls, and faceless agencies and bureaucrats. The nice lady you are talking to is not much different from you. She's just making a living and doesn't hate you. She's just doing her job. Might as well yell into the wind and swing at smoke. For example, I am trying to get a VA loan but it's been a long time since I served. I actually filled out an online form, followed by a FAX to get a form to attach to another form to request the form that authorizes my loan. This will be attached to the actual loan forms and applications. That is no exaggeration. It is 100% true.
3. I believe it is unlikely (but possible) that there will be some national storm trooper takeover. I think it will be more like Atlas Shrugged. You will just find every damn part of your life requiring an authorization, documentation, certification, notification, keep in your files for 20 years permission on the part of government. No commerce will move apart from black markets or flaunting the system...at your perile. You can't build, buy, sell, move, trade, get healthcare, give healthcare, drive or speak without permission. It will all be "good" for you. If there is a rebellion of some sort, it will start one day when an unemployed/outsourced, starched shirt and tie guy, racing to an interview to work for half his wages, who's recently cashed out a heavily penalized 401k, living with kids in mom's basement gets pulled over on a busy freeway for going 7mph over the speed limit missing his interview. He knows its a revenue stop and he doesn't have a chance. He cracks up, runs into the police car, a chase ensues and he and some cops are killed. Suddenly, everyone in America has had enough and a sort of spontaneous flash mob erupts on the highways or somewhere else. Maybe there's a fire in a bailout bank or Wall Street and instead of helping you see citizens throwing more stuff on it to make it burn better while they block the fire dept. It will be something strange and unexpected like the catalyst in Tunisia.
4. As the Borg said "Resistance is futile." Frankly, our semi-military police force with infrared, lowlite, thermal image, military weaponry and the ability to tap into anything electronic probably prevents any organized resistance. Plus, they will absolutely want to make a spectacle of anyone who goes against the system to intimidate others.
5. The middle class are not gone and will not easily sacrifice cars, homes, family, current job and the natural American belief that things will be better in the future short of storm trooper type subjugation. About half the population can always be counted on to go along with it anyway. Look at N. Korea. They are eating grass and tree bark. They actually oppress themselves. Pre-WWII Germans turned a blind eye to the subjugation all around them and many happily participated.
I just think that after fantasizing about all the ways we might have a great second revolution that fixes everything it is more practical to leave and simply not play. My actual tax rates and the suffocating regulation of my industry are beginning to give those signals. We hope the next election will change things but it rarely does and not for long.
My favorite bumper sticker I saw a few years ago, "Taxation WITH representation isn't so great, either!"
" However, the bureaucracy is nameless, faceless, amorphous, impossible to pin down...and relentless"
Really? I suggest you spend more time thinking and less time writing..
You sound like a plant from your in your face handle to your defeatism..
I dunno. I kind of enjoyed reading what he wrote. Thought it made sense.
Defeatism. You claim there are tells of a "plant" in FreedomGuy's writing, but "defeatism?" That's what the losing side calls "reality" or "pragmatism" in the 11th hour. There's really no other connotation. Which side are you on? He's just looking at all sides and calling it like he sees it, same as that Simon Black chap that wrote the original post.
It's interesting following these threads because there are a few different strains of personality that seem to be emerging. As someone who would fight with teeth and knives against an intruder to my home or violator of my family's person, but someone who wants to be out of that situation before it becomes necessary, maybe I can charaterize myself as a "homicidal pacifist."
I never said I did not enjoy it. What I disagreed with and yo u failed to mention is the amorphous composition of the bureacracy. All Government and buruecracy has things in common. Identify those and you identify weak spots and opportunities. I find my reality to be a bit more pragmatic and my enemies to be just men in the end. Homicidal pacifist lol, not bad at all.. What if the home invaders set up a headquarters "Home invaders r us" down the street from you and every night they went out to do business and during the day they slept. Would you be homicidal then only at night or would you venture forth in the day?
Well that's a good thought exercise. If they came in my house first, there would probably be a mutual immolation, day or night. However, if they set up a stand and went night by night to random houses, I can answer that I would move away. To the next town, the next state, the next country or the next continent. Whatever it took. As our Dear Leader GWB famously tried to say, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
As for the amorphous nature of the bureaucracy, I agree that the proles who man the desks are just men in the end. But just like I try to lessen my interaction with the evil robots at the DMV, I am disengaging from this societal metamorphosis that America is undergoing. Violence scars victim and perpetrator alike. Totalitarian states are filled with mentally and spiritually scarred perpetrators and physically scarred vicitims and it'saself-reinforcing loop. I JUST don't want to play this game. As to the violence aspect, Lt. Col. Grossman has authored many books definitively linking killing to permenant psychological damage, regardless of whether you are on the side of the "good guys" or not. I don't think a lot of these "Stay and fight" people are taking this into account. If I can avoid going down that path or avoid showing my family the homicidal maniac under the pacifist, I think we will all be better off.
Vlad:
"If I can avoid going down that path or avoid showing my family the homicidal maniac under the pacifist, I think we will all be better off."
While I don't agree with everything you have said, this really struck home with me. It's quite how I feel most of the time and I know myself well enough that this is most likely my reaction. I know that the 'male ego' side of me would want to go out and kick some ass, but I also know that in the middle of the situation and far removed from the current relative comfort I experience it would be the most likely be my reaction and my attitude in protecting my family and loved ones.
Thanks for being brave and sharing it.
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. If someone agrees with everything I say, then I KNOW they're crazy. On ZH, we're all here becausewe recognize something is seriously wrong with the world welive in and we are trying to understand and master our situations. I really value the opportunity to interact and train here in the Fight Club. Outside, there be monsters.
Pacifism is a pretty good strategy, and is not the same as surrender. You just have get your spot on the world situated with the right set of hobo signs.
http://www.worldpath.net/~minstrel/hobosign.htm
maybe a clean water hydrant/hose at the edge of your property, that you let anyone drink from and move on. a box of food scraps on the days you have them. Then an obvious obstruction/instruction, such as sign that says "private property from this point on".
If somebody tests your generosity, point a $5 laser pointer at thier eyes/clothing. If they persist, let the warning shot go, followed by the rock salt as nessecary. Hopefully witha few repetitions you get the right set of hobo signs published about your place, including "poor, nothing to take from here" before you ever have to escalate to big time violence. If everyone in your neighborhood does the same, you might have a chance of just getting passers through to greener pastures. (regardless of thier intentions when they get there)
Actually, W bobbled the old saying as follows: "Fool me once... [stricken expression] can't fool me again."
Optimism, pessism, defeatism...how about realism? I am an optimist by nature. I also love history and at one time was going to teach some of it.
My pessimism or defeatism if you will actually mirrors the dangers many of our founders quoted, particularly that liberty tends to yeild to tyranny. I don't think they were defeatists. They were astute observers of history. Being recently victorious over their tyrants they set about establishing limited government...not to limit and control people but to limit and control government.
They had one huge advantage over us. Their enemies wore red coats, hired mercenaries and generally had a far more open and directly oppressive operation. They were not fighting their own or something they themselves invented.
In my comments I point out the problems in wanting to break out of and maybe destroy the current system. My optimism comes in the fact that none of these statist-collectivist-socialist experiments ever works over the long haul and no one short of God can make them work. It's like bad physics. I also hear words like keynsian, Ayn Rand, Austrian economics, etc. So principles of liberty are being rediscovered and reinterpreted in light of current events.
While I am prone to an angry rant, it is just a part of what I believe. I spend an inordinate amount of time thinking about these things including clubs, seminars, reading and even speaking.
FG I just put you on my Christmas card list. I think the Founding Fathers had it mostly right but were only too aware of what "human nature" does to any political system over time. I forgot who said that until humanity changes, history will continue to repeat itself. I'm no history expert, but I sure see a lot of countries where 5% of the people are very rich and the other 95% are poor, and the U.S. is headed this way, also. I would move back tomorrow if the current corrupt system failed and the old tried-and-true system 200 years ago was put back into place. The USA began by ex-pats that were sick of the system and left for a new start, but unfortunately Earth is out of new lands, so the big Q is will the USA follow the same path other countries have through history or just change regimes and get caught in another banana republic cycle?
Another cheap piece of propaganda. Limiting and controlling government has never been actuality in the US.
Since the beginning, there have been acts of unlimited and uncontrolled government.
Like a president signing to buy land and people with it.
US citizens no longer invest resources on propaganda, their propaganda is extremelly cheap. This has to be pondered as a sign of resources limitations. No matter their speech, US citizens are perfectly aware of resources limitations as they no longer wish to invest resources on building reliable propaganda.
Another propagandist who would want the idea that a nation proclaiming freedom but maintaining slavery is actually a nation supporting freedom and that rediscovery of freedom principles is under way.
Cheap propoganda, really? That would imply I am working for someone to spread a false idea. What is that false idea; a belief in liberty? Yours is the typical shallow superiorist comment. You start with the belief you have some apriori superior understanding of all things and you ignorantly throw labels you do not understand. I am sure you understand all secret conspiracies. The modern liberal-statist does the exact same thing. They don't debate. They just assert the superiority of their understanding and position. That's why they get mean when pressed.
What kind of drivel is it that you posit "US citizens no longer invest resources on propaganda,"? Really? Do all citizens think as one? Who organized this resistance? What resources did they previously invest in propoganda? What exactly is the propoganda we are resisiting? I am a citizen and by your comments I must be simultaneously resisting it and propogating it? Amazing.
You need to judge all history in the context of it's own time. Athens/Greece more or less invented the ideas of democracy and held slaves themselves. Democracy was for the citizen only. Rome was a Republic yet had emperors. All nations have practiced things imperfectly. It is to our credit and even the West in general that we ended slavery ourselves...a slavery that is still practiced in certain places on earth. Even after the revolution and at our founding many knew that slavery would have to be addressed eventually. However, the first task was independence from England. Slave states helped in that effort. It took years before we even had our Constitution after the Articles of Confederation.
No propoganda here unless it is the propoganda of liberty...which is a truth and therefore cannot be propoganda.
No, what Freedomguy said made perfect sense to me.
Please research the concept of "inverted totalitarianism" (Sheldon Wolin).
Also reseach Italy's structures pre-WW2.
I read that. Very interesting and something to think about. I feel there is some merit to the "managed democracy". On first take the part that doesn't sit well is the idea that corporations manage the government. I would still assert that the government has the upper hand but are in fact influenced. The next part is that all this management requires a large very well constructed conspiracy that I am not sure exists.
I think elements of these ideas do in fact exist but I think it is from a common philosophy more than a covert conspiracy, e.g. the major media are liberal statist-collectivists therefore they slant news toward that end. I will have to research and read more.
My bias is a sort of occam's razor. You don't have to look in the shadows and crevices for complex conspiracies. The answers are the things right in front of you that are obvious and explainable.
Ok: Occam's razor is a useful tool to analyse. Here's two larger developments which can be analysed:
In a market there's a natural tendency for corporate entities to grow, and outgrow the competition. Gain access to this winning corporation (because you're less ethical than your opponents, and have total disregard for damaging than your (technically) smarter adversaries) and you control that particular market. Repeat this in strategic markets, until food, defence, finance, and communication are under your control. Slowly change the marketplace, do not antagonise until a final coup de grace. (we are there now) Work with the market, not against. Take your time, since time is then on your side.
Then use greed and corruption (war on drugs) to hollow out a particular society's ethical standards. Make corruption, violence and depravity a naturally occurring thing, by empowering the worst of society. Dumb it down. Developing higher culture is more difficult than regressing into a lower form of culture. Use naturally occurring cycles.
Then as for covert conspiray..
Throughout history there have been small groups of men that coöperated together to control the larger whole. Conspiracy is a naturally occurring behaviour in larger societies, where vertical connections are longer or don't even exist anymore. There is no reason to expect it to be different now. The aversion against IDENTIFYING "conspiracy theories" is a learned one and can be dismissed using logic.
Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lzQML1O0aw
And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZk8ronces
And this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bO0-u900OG4
IMO NEVER underestimate your opponent. There is less risk in OVERestimating. Always look at what they do, and what is the effect intended logically, never what they say.
IMO once you see it has been a gradual, organic takeover, a lot of things will start falling in place. Like pieces of a puzzle. There is no need for a tight control of every aspect, a secret master plan that must be followed to the letter, every single piece of madness is right there, in the open. The neocons pushing GMOs and drawing up the patriot act in the eightties, the push towards instabillity in the markets by allowing control over money and removing circuit breakers by the liberals. But, after eroding the defences, the ones that committed these acts will not follow up on these changes (that give them greater freedom) inmediately, they seperate in time cause and effect: A law is changed, but only a decade later that change is used to further a goal. That is the tricky bit of the inverted totalitarian state. It has allies in simple, greedy men and women that fail to see connections. It has used the institutions that our forefathers erected to defend from being enslaved, against us. "Brave New World".
Here's an example how simple reality (state of bankruptcy) can be used to an advantage to those that caused it (and are upon discovery of the fact, on the defence), using the complete opposite of a logical reaction: This is a often used tactic; do the complete opposite of what you say, and explain using elements of what the issue is about, but twist them around to confuse and win over possible opponents:
http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2011/6/13/dont_believe_the_hype_about_u...
In introducing the concept (too much debt=no possibillity of settlement=bankrupt) in such a way that it's not critisised, it is then lodged in public discourse, acceptance assured by diverting the questions away from it (Don't question HOW this debt came to be in existance!), and those that profit from this situation (at everyone's expense) are then ready to move on to the next point on the list.
Managed democracy. FG you have elevated me to the next level of thinking. I was thinking Fascism was the state control of privately owned corps. I was thinking of coming up with a new ZH definition of "Reverse Fascism" where the big corps and banks control the governments. But there's still one doubt in my mind about secret group that is calling the shots. Bill Clinton got caught on tape saying he thought he was in charge here. JFK warned about a group of people that were acting on their own interests. The list is long on quacks, but when enough of the quacks sound like a duck, walk like a duck, and look like a duck, it's probably a duck. Tyler is our duck and when he quacks, we listen.. :)
That's a good observation (reverse fascism). It has been identified as "inverted totalitarianism" as well (Sheldon Wolin, Chris Hedges)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6HMQM7Lo58
Canadian horde ... snort. Would that be the Canadian hockey horde or the "Don't insult Canadian beer" horde... only two horde's we have, most Canadians are members of both. C'mon up North!!
beer + hockey > bread + circus
eh?
there are now six countries on earth without a rothschilds affiliated central banking system. just where do you think you're going to run to?
they are coming for EVERYONE.
just how long will your idyllic out of the way little paradise stay out of the crosshairs?
There are actually only 5 left: Iran, N. Korea, Sudan, Libya, and Cuba. (Soon to be 4)
The sixth, (Iraq) fell in (Surprise-suprise) 2003-2004, and Paul Wolfowitz was allowed to handle the distribution of the new currency.
Chilling. And most likely accurate.
+1
Once again, see George Carlin...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jQT7_rVxAE
Not a very good article. It's really pretty straight forward.
You stay and fight, or,
You leave and the fight comes to you.
The article presents the sitation like it's something that can be avoided, it is not.
The choice is always going to be fight or submit. Interestingly, the public holds the power in both choices, as they can choose where (by staying or leaving) and which (fight or submit.) The stronger position for most is stay, because of present access to resources (be it financial, material, or moral support) regardless of the choice to fight or submit. To leave for a safe haven simply delays the choice, TPTB will eventually come to the safe haven, and you'll have less resources when they do. The only compelling argument I can see that supports leaving is if you're old and without family and think you'll deplete your resources and be dead before TPTB finally show. That's a pretty empty choice, though.
TPTB made their choice long ago: always grab more, never give up anything. Fight always, negotiate never, lie, cheat, steal, and accomplish the power/resource grab by any means necessary. Their inflexibility, greed and amorality is always, and will be in this case, their downfall.
I plan to stay, because I want to be witness to the justice that will be unleashed upon them.
...or stay low and keep moving...
I noticed watching all the latest Greek riot videos that while they have more guts than Americans, they are still not acting like Egyptians. They are not pissed off enough. You watch these videos in Athens, and you see a complete mob of individuals striking the police. There is no cohesion of tactical planning - no group think. Egypt's revolution was well-planned, and executed, and they acted like a group. Greece is just not at that stage yet - but this has been going on for a couple years now. America is much farther off to revolution than Greece, but when things get bad enough, the masses will be able to overthrow the banks in both countries.
200+ years ago, England was hiring German mercenaries (Hessians), and sending so many troops to America, that they took up residence in American homes. Our ancestors were so ill-equipped, poorly supplied, and badly funded, that it is a miracle that we won the Revolution. "Don't fire until you see the whites of their eyes!" Remember this? They developed guerrilla tactics to win, and came together as a single group with a common goal. We've done it before, we can do it again - when we are at that stage. We're just not there yet. Patience.
What if the revolutionary was never won though?
What if the armstices and surrenders were all one big lie rolled into good PR?
What if only certan things were ceded while key things remained in elite hands?
What if House Battenberg still rules the US of A?
Those are the real questions to be asking.
if you are going to go after a giant you should know exactly where to hit.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/hey-america/
Indeed it was well-planned and executed ... by MI-6 and their Moslem Brotherhood local front men! That's why they acted as a group (since only a handful of 'seeded' plants are needed in an unsuspecting mob to steer it in the right direction).
Mubarak 'had' to go and be replaced by a more compliant dictator ... else he would have supported Gaddafi and resisted the NATO takeover of Libya's central bank and oilfields. Same for Tunisia on Libya's other border.
Don't expect such cohesion when Americans start to resist! You'll likely spend more time defending your family from your neighbours than from the government militias ... because those neighbours will be trying to silence you and stop your resistance lest it bring attention from the 'authorities' onto their families. Informers (and surveillance cameras, and drones) will be everywhere.
Big difference: the Americans had guns (flintlocks) that were not much, if any, inferior to the English ones. The flintlock was the big equalizer. No such device exists today. The PTB's weapons are vastly superior to those of the proles.
I'm confused a bit by the title. In my view it will be the rich that will leave. Once they have finished the rape, they will just pack up their gold and move to Monaco. We will be left behind, maybe fighting each other but in any case it won't matter to them - they'll be drinking gold on some yacht somewhere while simultanously sniffing blow off some perfect french tits.
"It's Gold": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W3hzJNSkqs
I'll keep saying it.. first step is to move as much of your commerce to Time Banks and bitcoins... imagine more and more people sustaining themselves with TimeBank exchange and storing wealth in bitcoins and it could be gradual where you find out that you only need 25% of your current USD$$ to pay things like property taxes & utilites so you only have to work in a job 25% of the time and 75% of the time you exchange your work in timebanks... once it grows to businesses using those tools as well more and more then you can see the errosion of the current power structure/safetynets whatever.. bascially taking responsibility before the austerity grabs everyone and then leads people to having to take responsibility way later but then they won't have any means to begin something new.. right now, there is a choice
Run if you want. From what's coming nobody gets a deferment
great science fiction piece written by the sovereign man.
Next week I am on jury duty...all poor defendants will be innocent if they did not harm a fellow citizen. Somebody caught with drugs....INNOCENT, next case.
We must resist the system with all opportunities...no matter how small...and then move, because our founding fathers' dream has DIED. Cry a few tears amd move.
The government is
(a) the people's representative
(b) the people's chance to meet corporate power on the same large scale.
As such, a strong government is essential for the welfare of the populace. The problem at the moment isn't the fact of government -it's the fact of capture of the government by the ultra wealthy including corporations.
The free market is a heavily regulated market such that market forces are actively protected from manipulation/subversion and can thus act freely. A free market is a heavily regulated market. That regulation is provided by government.
Take your socialist diatribe and peddle it somewhere else.
Government and the Banks are the problem. The solution is simple. Don't buy shit you don't need (ie starve the beast). Watch them both disintegrate. Rebuild without them. Problem solved.
Ever hear of legislative capture?
Regulatory capture?
Dream on...
People are fighting already, its called buying gold and silver.
Power is money and while fiat currencies are the weapon of the enemy,
that weapon is quickly dying as public debt has exploded around the world.
Without the ability to fund your armies central control is lost.
Freedom is not established by the violent overthrow of the central bankers,
but simply by the planting of a new forest after their financial conflagration
has destroyed the real economies of the world.
The seeds of that new forest will come from the savings of real money.
Tyler, it is nice to see someone call a spade a spade. Thankyou. Maybe others will come around once they start shooting at us.
Tyler, it is nice to see someone call a spade a spade. Thankyou. Maybe others will come around once they start shooting at us.
http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/oathbreakers-miami-...
http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2011/06/16/ap-self-exoneration...
"when they start? You missed the bus charlie..
i thought calling a spade a spade was illegal now? racialism init?
Tyler, stay out of Manhatten hotel rooms, don't take any pics of your Weiner, and don't go to Amsterdam for anything :))))))
Politicians are living in fear of the public today. What happened to the Town Hall meetings? They've been replaced with organized pep rallies full of paid shills and rah rahs. Why are they afraid? The smart ones know they are crooks and screwing the public. The perverts are blackmailed to operate the way they do and fear exposure. The rest are just dumb, and I've met quite a few of them.
Simon, Simon, Simon. I really enjoy your articles on living and working anywhere. But most of your audience do not even have a passport. They can't even travel to Canada, let alone elsewhere. Even though this is alledgedly a forum on finance, so one would expect people who have travelled, I doubt it is proportionally any better from the dubious quality of their posts.
Invariably, about half of ZHers run to pathetic nationalistic breast beating on every issue, another quarter who start with the cliche, "I was in the Army/USMC/Navy/Air Farce, so I have travelled and no matter what crap I post I am a fucking hero so don't contradict me" kind of nonsense. The less than 20% of Americans who actually know what they are talking about, who are smart, conscientious, fearful of the future, and do not recognize the Nazi empire as their home any more - the kind with both social and professional skills that would fit in anywhere in the world, have already left, or are planning to very soon. So you are preaching to apes who will soon kill each other off at the next opportunity. Apes who want to devour you for daring to suggest that they leave their little shit of turf on earth. Apes who still believe that they live on the greatest nation on earth (Sieg Heil).
I've met terrific American academics and folks who have settled in my part of the world over the years, but I fear for my community's future if American immigrants of lesser quality start to settle here which I see more and more lately. The casual bigotry, racism, hate, and religious fundamentalism they bring with them with about as much conscience as a turd in a swimmingpool, as well as the loud and obnoxious ways of expressing themselves do not lend well to integration. I'd rather have the Taliban as next door neighbours than an American. Europe is fucked anyway, so please do not come here. Stay and fight your civil war, and I will be cheering you from afar. Simon, please stop encouraging these vile and violent cunts to leave their country, for everyone's sake. They do not want to listen to you, and they will hurt you if they can.
Thank you for that YHC. I think you were a little harsh on the NASCAR rank-and-file but don't worry about a flood of American refugees. Most counties are a little more judicious about who they let in that the USA is, and from the tone of the responses to Simon's post, here and on his site, most would rather die and take their families with them crying "Wolverines!" while a Hind gunship blasts them their defiant pose. I guess "freedom" and "liberty" actually mean less to them than they think it does, since they aren't willing to do the hard stuff and protect their family. Dying is easy...finding liberty is hard work.
I find your posts fascinating. A well deserved +1 and wishing you all the best to you and your family during your impending move.
Very valid concern. US citizens are doomed to live the US as they will get kicked from their homeland. With them, they will take their self imbued idea of superiority, that the US ways are the best in the world. It is going to be a disaster of oppression over the locals.
As they feel the best, their ways being the best (in nothing more than crashing the world), they will reclaim the best their new location has to offer as a tribute, an inherent entitlement to their US citizenism.
Going to be rough days for locals as the US citizens are going to import with their US citizenism.
Sorry that the orphans of your empire are drawn back to the womb to disrupt the sweet utopia you've imagined. They're disturbed, unteachable children, after all, who return instinctively like migrating birds to a sunken island. Now that America has taken on the heavy burden of maintaining your empire you're free to spend the rest of your days in a Pimms-colored, Wordsworthian splendor. Well done! Here's hoping your livers give out before the Gulf Stream does.
Very well written and wonderfully sarcastic too! You can come for dinner any time, although I have a feeling you're one of those tiresome people who blames everyone else for their woes.
We don't have an empire any more, and most of us are well aware of the terrible consequences of having one. Murder, theft and enslavement are not "heavy burdens" that can be excused by bringing "civilisation" or political ideologies to the natives. Maybe you will learn that too one day.
Have learned it, I'm elbows deep in the sticky old Raj at the moment. Please send some Plymouth Gin, Navy strength if you get around to it. Cheers!
Plymouth gin navy strength? Are you working with gunpowder or just testing your liver?
Europeans are true cunts...with penis envy.
Yes we are, so don't come here.
And menstrual envy.
I love reading this blather from a so-called cosmopolitan citizen who will be more or less hunted down when the worldwide grid is implemented. I say good riddance, sir. Enjoy your plantation existence abroad. The world's spartans will stay here and fight like our ancestors before us. It is no coincidence that as man has become more and more "domesticated" by our superficial materialistic culture, he has been gradually deprived of his natural survival instincts and thirst for self-determination.
stay and fight? hahaha americans are brainwashed by media outlets, alcohol and tobacco. They are far too lazy to get off their asses and fight. Yet again, once they have nothing left to loose they might put up a fight....
The govt is a bunch of bungling fools. Sure, they look really smart manipulating markets, rigging elections, selling product. But when it comes to carrying out massive opperations against a hungry populace? Bungling fools. They won't have the manpower or the resources to control 350 million spoiled brats. No, i think the other brats will be a greater concern.
First of all, I do not think even in the worst case we are headed for anywhere close to anarchy. But if it did happen, and for the fun thought experiment, I agree. Does anyone really think some FEMA bureaucrat is really going to order law enforcement to round up the peasants and put them in camps, where they are going to have to feed, clothe and water them, in return for what kinda work product?
It will be far more profitable for the powerful people, including bureaucrats of any/all agencies to coalesce with like-minded folks in conclaves around major infrastructure (power, water, communication hubs that are still functional). The most important people in the world in this scenario (Medical Doctors) are going there too. Enforcement/boots on the ground types might also group up with the familiar chain of command, and make sorties out into the fray to acquire resources (fuel, food), but they are not going to roam and get caught up in random civilian gang v. civilian gang pig fights.
Feudalism: where hospitals, commandeered facilities with perimeter fencing, will be the new (old) seats of government. People will have to pay a heavy barter price to be let in the gate to make a phone call, post a tweet looking for friends/family, watch video/news transmissions, get a dose of penicillin, etc. Precious metals will be accepted, but will be on par value with clean food. Guns/Ammo will be worth more than both, for duplicitous reasons.
And even the most hardcore "off-the-grid ready" ZH'ers are going to go there and pay their price, if for nothing else ....
... to see if the site is still active. :-)
Casinos, taverns, brothels, and mortuary services will spring up around the centers. Posse work will be offered to rescue VIPs and restore severed infrastructure links little by little .....
/ thought experiment, cause its basically the same thing that has happened a hundreds of times throughout history.
The real enemy is big transnational corporations all being fed off the government teat via the Defense budget primarily. While everyone is distracted by the theatre involved with
cuts in social spending and citizen uprisings, these will come to nothing. The transnationals are killing us all with their weather mods, and Aluminum aerosols and oil spills and other noxious treats. The beasts are too big now. Who are you going to fight?
DEBT
is the real enemy....
SAVING
will set you free...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Gn0e7kvTA
I guess all those other people just aren't alarmed like you are.
You could run away. Or you could stay and do your civic duty to make others aware of your concerns. You could go to city hall meetings, school board meetings, and of course gatherings of like minded individuals. Maybe a Palin rally or something. But mostly you need to vote.
When all of those others feel the tyranny that you do, then they will come over to your side. But, for now they must have a roof over their heads, a job, and some food to eat. So as far as they are concerned the system is working.....
It is working isn't it?
Oh, I forgot, the world is coming to an end. When is that again? Damn, where is my calendar!
gh
If voting actually changed things it would be illegal.
its a big club and you ain't in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5dBZDSSky0
The real enemy is big transnational corporations all being fed off the government teat via the Defense budget primarily. While everyone is distracted by the theatre involved with
cuts in social spending and citizen uprisings, these will come to nothing. The transnationals are killing us all with their weather mods, and Aluminum aerosols and oil spills and other noxious treats. The beasts are too big now. Who are you going to fight?
Remember, Germany finished the colossal destruction of WWII with losing in total, only about 10% of their population. For USA that means up to 30 million can die and only then start to approach catastrophic levels. That is a lot of people killed by cops, cops getting killed, starving to death, being bombed by Predator UAVs, etc. --whatever your doomsday scenario is.
So the likelihood is that you will still be alive after all this pain and suffering. Question is, can you avoid it by going somewhere else?
+1945
After the war, from 1945-1948, Germany (West) was a chaotic mess, where families survived by renting their young women to the occupying forces. Price controls were everywhere, and store shelves were empty. Then on June 20, 1948, Ludwig Erhardt, head of the Office of Economic Opportunity, announced the Deutschmark and the end of price controls. Within a week, stores put goods up for sale, and the German reconstruction began.
Germany's economy grew by more than 8% per year for the next dozen years. Of course, the German work ethic was essential as part of this rise. Trouble is, socialism fails eventually, it just takes longer to fail where the culture favors work over sloth.
In the U.S., poverty used to be a grerat motivator. With 99 weeks unemployment, 260 weeks of food stamps, and potentially unlimited Medicaid, many people, especially those under 30, are demotivated. Only the experience and the fear of hunger will motivate, and many of those will join the barricades on the other side.
I nominate this guy for the Nobel Award of human nature...
The real enemy is big transnational corporations all being fed off the government teat via the Defense budget primarily. While everyone is distracted by the theatre involved with
cuts in social spending and citizen uprisings, these will come to nothing. The transnationals are killing us all with their weather mods, and Aluminum aerosols and oil spills and other noxious treats. The beasts are too big now. Who are you going to fight?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3EnZxaAkpU
Mene Mene Teckel Upharsin
http://bible.cc/revelation/6-5.htm
Mr. Black, I am telling you now, I do not provide labor. (stop working). This is how you kill the beast, you stop feeding it your labor.
The government beast stopped working and has crossed the ''Event Horizon'' of being able to sustain market order and the rate of return required for the foundation of the market, which is labor. This is called failure, do to corruption. Anyone continuing to provide labor at this point is delusional and self devouring. War is the revelation of failure, violence is the lack of intelligence, and standing fast is The Truth.
The Truth is not a choice, the revelation upon this generation demands correction, not the call of demand destruction by the corrupt market beast, and the only way to correct the self devouring beast is to stop working as the beast.
If you accept the mark of the beast, with both feet in the market, your heel is upon your own ass and you are fallen. Fiat currency is now defining that fact clearly, as you well know, and Government debt has sealed labor in the BLACK HOLE, Mr. Black.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGaWY40Y0jg&feature=related
lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Gn0e7kvTA
The government's success in taking control of pretty much everything in the US, will be it's ultimate undoing. When you are "in control" of something, and it falls apart, people hold you responsible. Obama is finding this out now. On campuses around the country, where he was practically worshiped in 2008, and 2009, he is no longer cool. Even the antiwar left is beginning to find it's voice. Dennis Kucinich, a socialist statist bastard, if there ever was one, is a sponsor of the resolution, in the congress to enforce the war powers act.
The intellectual youth of America, for whom the fall of the Soviet state is ancient history, is realizing that centrally controlled economies do not work. If you don't believe me, go to a Ron Paul rally. I'm continually amazed at the youth of the crowds he draws. The majority are under thirty. It is amazing to hear these youngsters talking about the Austrian school, Murry Rothbard, the philosophy of noninitiation of force, the original intent of the founders, you name it. It's like going to a Libertarian convention ten years ago, but instead of a bunch of gray beards, you have a bunch of wispy beards, speaking truth, running down the feds.
It is youth's function to rebel against authority, and without jobs, or the promise of job's via university education, they have plenty of time to rebel. The big difference between now, and the sixties, is that there is no draft for the young to rebel against. In it's place is the lack of employment, and economic hope for the future. Websites like this one, are fanning the fires by getting the truth out there, it's sure not to be found in the MSM. Studies show that the youth are watching less, and less television, and spending their time online instead. Even middle age types, like me are getting more, and more of their news online. Of course I'm an unusual geezer, in that I'm not afraid to learn a few new tricks.
We gray beards have a role to play though. I plan to serve as a medic, once the civil unrest starts rolling. There will be need of amateur photographers, witnesses, journalists, legal advisors, logistical support, and of course juries. Despite the fact you have aged out of the ranks of the angry young men, you can still have a role to play.
Just one thing. I have dibs on W., and Cheney. I'm curious how long they will maintain that water boarding is not torture, once it becomes up close, and personal. The thing is, that I'm not a professional waterboarder, and I might use too much water, for to long. I guess I'll just have to risk it.
I don't, he has a bad heart.
Or maybe he has a new one.
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20060228222412/memoryalpha/en/imag...
Also, isn't it a bit late (in the game)?
Whatever it takes to take out Al-Qaeda I'm all for. This is the ultimate evil the holy books have been talking about.
http://blogs.westword.com/showandtell/03%20at%20first%20I%20was%20like.jpg
Don't you mean "AL-CIA-DA?"
get a grip.
Terrorism is the enemy our policymakers invented after the fall of the USSR to perpetuate the military-industrial complex. Our military's purpose is to enforce the interests of multinational firms. If negotiation fails, the Marines kick down the door.
Anyone remember the trail of cookie crumbs in the 1993 Trade Center attack? The FBI controller who told the cutout to go ahead with live explosives?