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Guest Post: The 40-Year Cycle of Cultural Change

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Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:24 | 1457204 Hard1
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Change bitchez!!!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:36 | 1457243 Hugh G Rection
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Beware ZHers, the threads are rife with federal agent provocateur scumbags.

 

Latest culprit, HITMAN56, and his disappearing post on the Timmy thread.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:05 | 1457322 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

Freaky freaky freaky stuff indeed..... food for thought.... remember, kids, Peace Is The Way of The Jedi. 

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:09 | 1457336 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Thought grenades are the most effective indeed.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:19 | 1457354 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

The Jedi are a bunch of hippy dipshits, brought to you via plagarization by a stoned out peacenik boomer. 

There are no absolutes?  My ass.  Alderaan is a peaceful world...  now that entropy has set in.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:37 | 1457442 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

You are speaking in ellipses, what are you trying to say?  RE: the "I hate gringos" patter, you way want to apply for a Ford or Rockefeller Foundation grant, they are still really into that kind of thing.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:39 | 1457453 Hugh G Rection
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I always thought of Star Wars as a biblical metaphor, good vs evil, light vs darkside.  Dunno if I would call the Jedi hippy, they settled a lot of conflicts with light sabers for a bunch of hippies.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:18 | 1457359 CH1
CH1's picture

Yup, almost every suggestion to act badly is from a Fed nowadays.

Trying to justify their fetid, parasitic existence.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:25 | 1458289 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

fetid trough of magical thinking.  points of original post seem cogent; the writing is unusually vivid for this joint.  like it.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:03 | 1457312 Michael
Michael's picture

We also need to identify by name those brain damaged control freak individuals in the numerous bureaucracies of government and actively campaign to to get rid of them as well. 

Anyone in those bureaucracies with "Deputy" before their name should be targeted too.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:32 | 1458298 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

no, no.  someday deputy county prosecutor.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 23:17 | 1458373 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

How about: Anyone over 45, cleancut, who is wearing a coat tie and enters the bldg before 8 AM ? That should get all the 'managers' ...

 

 

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:52 | 1457321 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Did Chuck even read "The Fourth Turning" past reviews on websites?

The last Awakening was indeed the 60's and 70's period.  That was Summer.  Every 20 years (about) the seasons change (a "Turning") as the different generations move into new phases of life.  This makes the current or soon to be starting period Winter, or a Crisis.  This is the polar opposite of an Awakening.

The big question is what direction will the Crisis take?  Will we go to war internally?  Will we have a confrontation with China?

No Awakening, Chuck, sorry to say.  Get ready for two decades of creative destruction.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strauss-Howe_generational_theory

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:00 | 1457741 Ghordius
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I agree, Charles Hugh Smith has it the wrong way round. According to this theory the "Awakenings" are every 80 years.

That's when "Idealists" start to get new ideas, form new cultures, tells everybody to stop behaving like before and to do something different, argue and go on your nerves, etc. The theory calls them "Prophets", and they usually lead you like Moses to a desert. We call them Baby Boomers.

The crisis comes because they lose their ideals, become corrupt or, like Moses, they may not enter the Promised Land.

Meanwhile the new generation is "Conformist", "Realist" and does not care a shit about what ideology is right as long as it is the same for everyone. The theory calls them "Heroes" and they usually get into a lot of grief.

The poor guys between are called "Nomads", they have to follow their parents in the search of perfection and have the worst of all the problems, until the surviving "Heros" inherit the new world.

Need a drink now...

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:44 | 1457846 Fukushima Sam
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As Nomads we are pissed and cynical.  When we were kids our parents gave us a few bucks to go see movies like Star Wars and The Muppet Movie and we would hop theaters for hours, waiting for them to finally come pick us up.  In our childhood the propaganda told us there would be a happy ending, that when the rainbow on the set of The Muppet Movie came crashing down all would be okay because the real rainbow could stream through the hole in the roof.  Then as adults we realized that our parents didn't really seem to like us much and that there did not seem to be happy endings in the movie called reality.

But in our children we see the seeds of a new hope, and we will do what we can to create a new world for them, where happy endings may once again be possible.  If our generation only has fake rainbows that crash then perhaps our children can have the real deal due to our efforts.  This is our destiny in history, and we must embrace it now as we move into middle age.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:52 | 1457875 Bolweevil
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Now I know why there are so many songs about rainbows.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:04 | 1457898 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Rainbow + LSD = Awesome!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 21:53 | 1458232 Cleve Meater
Cleve Meater's picture

Great great great ... Exactly my nomadic thoughts. +1 times 27 equals -918

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 21:57 | 1458239 WSP
WSP's picture

Actually, in our children we see new ways to be selfish and to "take" from others.  Listen, all "progress" and "change" represent are buzzwords for new ways for one set of the population (the ones who had rough childhoods) to find ways to redefine society to benefit them.

In the end, not one single thing in man's so-called progressive history has every really made life better----all it has ever done is made us more and more controlled, watched, and manipulated.

In the end, we would all be much happier if just left alone----but no, there will always be a sect of humans that want to control others and steal from them.   This is really not a hard concept to understand, yet, so few people understand it.....I guess the harder it is for you to understand, the more likely it is you are "taker" rather than "mind your own business'er".

If ever there were a reason for one man to hate another, it certainly would be to hate those that tell us that we need to "change" to fit some idealistic idea they may have.   The true meaning of course, is for us to change to benefit them.  When you think about, most people really suck---absolute roaches and scum bags.  If everyone would just mind their own damn business----god, we could be so happy!

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 23:15 | 1458365 Fukushima Sam
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You are right; to help our children we must tear down the wrong bullshit created by our parents and grandparents.  These are the things that don't let people be free.

I do not agree we will be selfish.  I truly want the next two generations to succeed, even at the expense of my own success, and I do not think I am the only one.

The great thing about our kids is that they will love us back.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 19:27 | 1457954 smore
smore's picture

Right.  I never read CHS any more.  It's too annoying.  He never seems to grasp more than about a third of any subject before he starts typing.  Sloppy.

The "Heroes" are going to make perfect "just following orders" Nazis.  They have been training the boy scouts to arrest those dangerous vets.  They will be the ones explaining to you why it is good for the planet that you have to take that euthanasia pill.   You are just producing too much carbon dioxide.  That's what they have been taught since they were five years old.

Strauss and Howe are very clear about the fact that a Fourth Turning can end in total horror. 

The Heroines are good in bed though...

 

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 20:52 | 1458109 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

Bangbros? lol. 

 Anyways, Don't ever forget the German army was the most powerful army (many times over) in the history of modern Western war.

Hitler was the fool and sewed the seeds of his own demise.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:40 | 1458305 jeff montanye
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like sewed the seeds.  couldn't develop an atomic bomb because he was anti-jewish.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 23:14 | 1458368 hamurobby
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 8mm Mauser is HEAVY, Der German infantry couldn't carry enough to the eastern front.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:41 | 1458306 jeff montanye
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you had me until the last line.  icon almost evens it.  strange that.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 19:28 | 1461196 smore
smore's picture

Hmmf... I think you might have misunderestimated my superficiality.  Which generation would you prefer in your bed, then?  Heroines are at at their physical peak, and also incredibly slutty.  That's all I meant.  Glad you like the icon though.  

Further info on Millenials here:

http://www.fourthturning.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?8-The-Millennial-Gen...

 

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 23:19 | 1458362 Fukushima Sam
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You could be right about the Nazi aspect, but perhaps we can help provide the buffer between the Boomer radicals and the willing Millennials.  If Gen X does not involve itself then I fear you may be correct.  But if we do then perhaps we can temper the madness.

I don't agree that a Fourth Turning ends in horror.  The horror is right near the end, but the fourth Turning only ends in resolution.  Whether the resolution is to your liking is anyone's guess...

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 19:37 | 1461219 smore
smore's picture

I only said that it CAN end in horror.  This is based on listening to two recent interviews with Strauss, who seems to be the "Penn" of the duo, in which he was definitely less sanguine about the prospects ahead than in the books.  He emphasized that there is nothing inevitable about the Heroes succeeding in their generational task.  Given the size of the problems ahead, I don't give a lot for their chances.  I think we are all doomed. 

 

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 12:35 | 1459925 Anonymau5
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Perhaps the terminology is wrong, but the theory is sound.  If cultural and civic changes oscillate on opposing spectrums, we should be crossing the threshold into directional change around the time the crisis is hitting.  

Essentailly, as I read the book, "falling" cultural change capitulates and reverses direction as the crisis hits, and moves opposite the borad civic destruction for this portion of the cycle.  A worsening economic and civic condition inspires individuals to pursue cultural development, or look at it the other way and beginning a positive change in develoiping a new cultural identiy inspires us to reevaluate our civic institutions.  Either way, this last twenty years and the next twenty years are the cyclically "down" period where we are learning the lessons of a worsening civic system and laying the foundation for a cultural shift which will allow the civic system to improve.

Compare to the post war period exiting the crisis and rising into the 90's and the reinforcement through the cultural maximum in the 60's.  Both were in uptrend, concantenated by a 20 year drift.  we get 1/4 cycle of double positives, 1/4 cycle of double negatives, and 2/4 cycles of rising culture and falling organization or rising organization and falling culture... right?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:24 | 1457205 buzzsaw99
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2021-2101 zombie apocalypse.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:28 | 1457218 Sudden Debt
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2070: Alien Invasion

2073: Alien Bank system forced upon Humans

2104: Alien Bank system defaults

....

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:03 | 1457315 Dabale arroz a ...
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+1 That's how it always goes! xD

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:43 | 1457474 Anglo in Abitibi
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Thanks SD! I`ll be laughing the whole drive home ...

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:28 | 1457219 NuYawkFrankie
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Does this mean I can soon start wearing my '70s wide-lapel, powder-blue, figure-hugging, polyester lesiure-suit again?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:52 | 1457296 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

It never went out of style. Just go ahead. People we be jalous!

 

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 05:28 | 1458622 NuYawkFrankie
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Appreciate your vote of approval ;)

Hey - any idea where I can pick up  one of those "Sat Night Fever"style chest medallions ? Used is ok, as long as the fake gold leaf isnt flaking off. tia

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 05:28 | 1458623 NuYawkFrankie
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Appreciate your vote of approval ;)

Hey - any idea where I can pick up  one of those "Sat Night Fever"style chest medallions ? Used is ok, as long as the fake gold leaf isnt flaking off. tia

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:38 | 1457226 idea_hamster
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CHSmith: "Gen X and Gen Y, this is your 'lights, camera, action!' call"

Gen X: "Sorry, couldn't hear you over AmIdol & crack pipe"

Gen Y: "tl;dr"

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:43 | 1457268 gmrpeabody
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Too funny....

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:52 | 1457522 Shameful
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You got it.  Summed it up rather nicely.  Anyone expecting the young to shape up and fix things might as well pray for Jesus or Superman to come and save them.  Think we are even more narcissistic and selfish than the Boomers, an epic feat I know, but we met the challenge. Anyone thinking that the Facebook generation will willing take on pain is in for a rude awakening.  Look at the mobs of youngsters robbing people, now imagine how bad it will get in a collapse.  Yeah the young will come together, to form gangs for looting.

It's every man for themselves, don't have to run faster than the bear, just faster than the people you are with.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 18:29 | 1457802 Tenma13
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Agreed.

Gen y aka the ME generation, will be the ones answering the call to 'defend' the nation from the evil within, you know, the evil dowers who crashed the system and made it so you can't get an iPad- Chinese, Ira, the guy down the street who speaks funny and wears different cloths; but the worst, are the ones that look just like the rest of us.

Don't be fooled by the boundary breaking, all singing , all dancing internet. It has done wonders for fragmenting opinion. Most gen y use it to Facebook, twitter random shit, follow 'important people' like Paris Hilton, and play video games. They are less informed, , not more so, fragmented, and divided. 

 truth bitchez  McCarthyism 2.0

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 22:23 | 1458288 idea_hamster
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I note that someone junked me.  I wonder whether it was a GenX or GenY. 

Likely GenX: It must be someone who would read all the way into the notes (can't be GenY) and while junk rating a post without taking the time to type out why is very GenY, it could also just be a GenX-er who has no real motivation after 99 weeks of EUC.

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:31 | 1457230 st33v
Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:32 | 1457231 st33v
Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:19 | 1457362 Sudden Debt
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I'm impressed for a part. But what's the plan/goal?

It clearly needs some more structure, and communication.

Second: the registering?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:32 | 1457235 tbone654
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40 year minor in an 80 year major cycle maybe ?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 16:38 | 1457425 Fukushima Sam
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Every forty years polar opposites in the cycle appear.  The full cycle is about eighty years, about the productive life-span of a human.  Just as the length of each of the four seasons is determined by the constant length of the year, the length of each Turning is determined by the relatively fixed length of a human life, or "saeculum"

The concept of the saeculum has been around for a very long time, but in modern Western thinking a linear study of history has mostly obscured the cyclical nature of human history.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saeculum

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:37 | 1457246 Lord Koos
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Want some cheese with your whine?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:39 | 1457252 Quinvarius
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generation kill up to bat with nothing to lose.  how can this go bad?

Thu, 07/14/2011 - 15:41 | 1457254 Salah
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Tyler,

CHS has had diarrhea of the blog the last few weeks and it looks like he's getting his prunes from an outside source.  The guy was much more lucid when he only posted something once a week or so.

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