Guest Post: America Will Not Survive Without Alternative Markets

Tyler Durden's picture

Submitted by Brandon Smith of Alt Market

America Will Not Survive Without Alternative Markets

Commerce is the lifeblood of a nation. Without
the free flow of trade, without financial adaptability, without
intuitive markets driven by the natural currents of supply, demand, and
innovation, cultures stagnate, countries whither, and one generation
after the next finds itself deeper in the somber doldrums of economic
disintegration. In an environment of transparency, honesty,
and the absence of monopoly (government or corporate), on the rare
occasions in history that these conditions are actually present in one
place at one time, we often see an explosion of prosperity and true
wealth creation. When local, decentralized markets are
given precedence over subversive elitist leviathans like mercantilism or
globalism, a wellspring of abundance bursts forward. Free
people, building true free markets that serve the specific needs of
individual communities and insulating the overall economy from systemic
collapse; this has always been the wave of the future. Not
“integration”, “harmonization”, or some fantastical nonsensical “global
village” administrated by a faceless unaccountable transnational entity
like the IMF, infested with sociopathic maid raping euro-trolls.

Unfortunately, average Americans today have grown
far too accustomed to having their commerce, and thus their livelihoods,
micromanaged for them. Most cities and states in this
country today are entirely dependent on corporate infrastructure or
federal funding for ready employment and steady incomes. Most people have never even considered life without the Dollar; a highly flawed and unstable fiat currency. They
exist enslaved, without any means to carry on even the most remedial
exchanges in the event that the worthless paper notes finally
hyperinflate into oblivion. Most Americans have never even
imagined where they might obtain food or other goods if grocery chains
were to shut down for more than a week; a very likely scenario
considering the extent to which such businesses are indebted, not to
mention the effects of destructive price increases due to inflation in
commodities and freight rates. The bottom line is, if the
daily fiscal life of the average American were to deviate from today’s
norm even slightly, the results would be devastating. There is no flexibility in our current system. All is rigid and fragile. There is no backup plan.

The problem, of course, is in educating the populace on the necessity of alternative markets. To many, the U.S. economy has been and always will be the standard. How could it change? Surely,
people have been discussing the possibility of total economic collapse
for decades, and it hasn’t happened yet, so why should we worry now?

What these people don’t realize is that first, economic storms are progressive events. They rarely happen in the blink of an eye. Far more like a wounded airplane struggling to maintain altitude but invariably crashing into the unforgiving earth. The
collapse of our dollar has been an ongoing program since at least the
early 1970’s, when Nixon removed our currency completely from any
vestige of a gold standard. Our industrial infrastructure
has been dismantled over many years and replaced with low paying,
remedial, and unreliable service employment. And, our national debt has been snowballing, more than doubling every decade since 1970. You can only put so much weight on the camel’s back before it finally snaps. This brings us to the second point; that snap has already occurred here in the U.S., many just don’t seem to recognize it.

Make no mistake, the year of 2008 was the breaking point. As
soon as the private Federal Reserve in tandem with a paid for and
pocketed U.S. government began rampant production of fiat without
oversight, without guidelines, and without the consent of the American
people, it was all over for our existing economy. The
consequences of quantitative easing measures initiated in 2008 will be
far reaching into the foreseeable future, and will probably go down in
history as the catalyst for immense international catastrophes soon to
come. For people who argue that collapse is a farfetched
“conspiracy theory”, I simply point out that the collapse they scoff at
is going on right now, right under their gullible noses.

This realization usually brings us to the next obvious question; what can we do to stop this terrible landslide?

To begin with, we need to abandon the idea that our
economic implosion is something that can be mended before the pain it
creates is felt. Like every sickness, it is something that we will have to struggle through, and suffer through, before a cure is made viable. There
is also no single magical solution to defuse the situation, and anyone
who tries to sell you one is probably not to be trusted. We
must accept that no matter what we do from this point on, we WILL see a
breakdown of the U.S. dollar and by attrition the rest of our financial
system. Our only practical options are those which
insulate and shield us as much as possible from the effects of that
breakdown, so that the country might have the opportunity to remove
manipulative elements (global corporatists) from the equation, and

Do we wait around for politicians, legislators, and
courts, to set up protective barriers in our communities and our local
economies for us? I certainly hope not. Anyone doing that will be twiddling their thumbs long after the nation has fallen apart. Elections
at the federal level have proven time and again to be utterly useless
in effecting any meaningful improvements in our society, let alone
preventing calamity. There are only so many Ron Paul’s and Rand Paul’s operating in our government today. Vote for them, but don’t put all your hopes for prosperity and liberty into one candidate, or one election.

At the state level (depending on your state), there
tends to be a bit more breathing room, and a chance for free market and
sound money legislation to be pushed to the forefront (as has been done
in Utah). However, relying on state representatives alone will not turn the tide. When it comes down to it, the only person that can protect your financial future, and your community’s financial future, is you. Yes, they created the mess, and now YOU are responsible for cleaning it up. Sorry, that’s just the way it goes…

This means that if we want to ensure any level of safety to our economic environment, we as Americans must do it ourselves.
We must stop buying into the lie that participation in commerce is
about mere "consumption", and actually take ownership of our economy.
must decouple from the unstable mainstream system and the dollar, and
construct our own local markets with our own stable non-fiat currencies. They’ll
call them “black markets”, they’ll call it an undermining of the
dollar, they’ll even call it terrorism, but the fact remains, life, and
thus trade, must go on. If the globalist based economy does
not provide an environment that facilitates free trade, or tries to
dominate trade as a method of social control, then alternative markets
are going to arise. It is unavoidable.

Must we go cold turkey on the Greenback, or weekly trips to Walmart? Not necessarily. Alternative
markets can be organized in parallel with the existing system, and used
in tandem until the primary economy takes the final plunge, or, can be
replaced entirely. That is to say, as localized markets,
barter networks, and gold and silver based currencies become more
popular in the midst of the comparably feeble and poisonous mainstream
economy, they will begin to supplant the old system. Why? Because the laws of supply and demand cannot be undone. People want a strong currency, and they want reliable foundations for local trade. If you provide these things, they will cast aside that which doesn’t work, and adapt that which does.

This is why the globalist system strains so hard to undermine any concept of “choice”. Either you use the dollar, or you starve. Either you work within the corporate framework, or you starve. Either you accept the autocratic puppeteering of groups like the Federal Reserve, or you starve. As
soon as people begin to recognize that they actually have other options
beyond the establishment status quo, the base of power for the elites
falls apart.

It is not a matter of IF alternative markets are built. It is only a matter of WHEN alternative markets are built. Barter organizations, food co-ops, and sound money, are a matter of survival. No
modern economic collapse that I know of has occurred without causing
the sudden ascent of localized commerce to fill the void. For
example, Greece has recently seen a significant rise in barter
networking programs in the past year, although some of these programs
are still rather primitive, and many are still too dependent on the
internet instead of encouraging more face to face community building:

Argentina has had barter networks and alternative markets for years following the collapse of its currency and economy. The
Argentine financial system has yet to recover from its collapse,
despite IMF claims that they “saved the country” from certain
destruction. Because of this, barter organizations continue
to operate there even today (again, still in primitive fashion and with
their own shortcomings, including a continued dependence on unbacked
“coupons” as currency):

Economic collapse forces the issue of alternative commerce. The
problem is that nearly every culture to face such dire straights waits
until after they are thoroughly desperate before they launch a
replacement economy. In my view, Americans can do much better. First, we have foreknowledge of collapse. Many citizens are at least aware that the threat exists and treat it more seriously than they did a few years ago. Others
in the Liberty Movement are fully cognizant of the inevitable danger
and have a complex understanding of economics in general. Next,
we still have some wealth (fiat wealth), though dwindling, which can be
converted into tangible commodities like gold and silver, as well as
materials for micro-industries (a skill set you have achieved that is
useful in a post collapse economy could be turned into a micro-industry
you can use for trade). We have extremely wide usage of the
internet (for now), which is the perfect tool for connecting people and
groups together, setting the stage for face to face organization later
on. We have states, with 10th Amendments rights,
which can be converted into “safe havens”; financially, politically,
and socially protected areas of the U.S. where independent citizens can
congregate that provide shelter and mutual defense from the chaos that
collapse imposes. And, most importantly, we have the will
to make these things possible, though it seems hidden or even
non-existent, it is there in many of us. All that is required are vehicles which give that will a direction and a means.

The Alternative Market Project, which I
recently founded, could be one of those vehicles, and could be used as a
way to accelerate the creation of barter networks and sound money
programs. However, to be clear, ANYONE with enough focus and enough patience can set up a barter network within their town or city. The
primary thing to remember, is that this must be done now, while we
still have the ability to maneuver, not after we’re already in a
financial stranglehold.

For anyone out there that still doubts the need for
localized commerce, sound money, and private trade groups, I suggest
they consider the following:

1) In 2010, for the first time in
two decades, central banks around the world became net buyers of gold,
driving prices to record highs:

Some skeptics site George Soros’
recent dumping of his gold holdings which was partly attributed to the
drop in metals this past month. However, what they don’t
seem to grasp is that Soros dumped his ETF holdings, or paper gold,
which were likely unbacked by any physical as most ETF securities are
unbacked. He dumped inherently worthless stocks. Unfortunately, this kind of manipulative action by bankers still has psychological effects on the markets. But, as always, gold and silver are coming back stronger than ever, and foreign banks continue to buy.

If global banks are buying up precious metals in
enormous quantities, then logically, it serves our interests to protect
ourselves in the same fashion. More states need to adopt sound money legislation now, as Utah did, before it is too late.

2) The method that the Bureau of
Labor Statistics uses to calculate inflation has been changed 24 times
since 1978, making the CPI the most skewed index in history. The Fed reports inflation at 2.7 percent, and core inflation at 1.2 percent. If
one were to calculate inflation using the old methods, the CPI would
actually be 10 percent, and this is still a conservative estimate when
one considers that most commodities, from oil to grains, have doubled in
price in the past two to three years. The Fed and the BLS
hide true inflation because it signals bad monetary policy and warns the
world that the dollar is devaluing at an alarming rate. Any economy that is still tied to the dollar as this process escalates will be beaten bloody. This includes your local economy. Decoupling
from the dollar and building alternative markets using methods outside
of the mainstream is the only way to cushion the blow. Foreign economies are slowly distancing themselves from the Greenback, and so should we.

3) Remember the
mortgage crisis that triggered the never-ending bailouts of corporate
bankers who gave themselves huge Christmas bonuses as a special thanks
to the American taxpayer? Well, the crisis never stopped. Foreclosure sales have continued to climb, and home values dropped in 75 percent of U.S. cities in the first quarter of 2011:

What have global banks done in response? They continue to make wild bets on housing! Why not! It’s not their money! Bank
of America in particular has thrown billions into a gamble that housing
prices will bounce back in the last half of this year, even while the
fundamentals of the economy show no signs whatsoever that house prices
will return, or that people will suddenly begin buying again en masse.

Will bailouts of the “Too Big To Fails” continue? Absolutely. This
signals not only the disintegration of America’s last store of value
(property), but also the relentless creation of debt and currency
devaluation caused by an out of control quantitative easing policy. Bailouts have severe consequences. Don’t ever let old Benanke tell you otherwise…

4) U.S. long term Treasury auctions continue to perform dismally. Foreign
buyers are few, and most prefer not to invest in American debt for more
than six to eight weeks at a time, let alone thirty years:

The Federal Reserve now revels in its role as the
only serious purchaser of U.S. bonds, expanding new national debt while
paying for old national debt with a printing press, of all things. The question is not whether Congress will raise the debt ceiling to continue this madness. Of course they will raise the debt ceiling! The real question is; what will happen when they do? Are
you willing to bet your own survival on the hope that foreign holders
of U.S. treasury bonds will not dump their reserves in protest of the
cycle of inflationary debt doom created by the Treasury and the Fed? I’m not…

5) Are you a state or federal employee planning retirement? Expecting your pension fund to cover it? Don’t
bother. Currently, the U.S. Treasury under the ever shameless Timothy
Geithner is siphoning revenues from federal employee pension funds and
401K’s and using them to pay for the horrible machine to keep rolling
while they create even more debt. Of course, Timmy assures us that they’ll put the money back once the debt ceiling is settled:

States have been creeping towards pension confiscation for at least a year. New
propaganda talking points include arguments that many pensions are
“padded” by employees using legal loopholes to “manipulate overtime” or
steal more money from taxpayers. In some cases this may be
true, but already you can see that the rationalizations are being formed
in the public mind which will allow states to more easily confiscate
all pension funds, as if all state employees nickel and dime the system
and should be punished. In reality, pension confiscation
will only be about poor state management and fiscal ineptness. 
Austerity is about to go into full swing here in the U.S.:

Without the retirement nest egg you spent half your life procuring, what will you do? Continue to rely on the establishment structure that stabbed you in the back? Or, will you step away from the structure completely, and build your own?

6) “Low Food Security” in U.S. households, which is measured by the Census Bureau, grew by 39 percent from 2007 to 2008. The poverty rate has hit a 15 year high. Considering
that the Census sets the poverty level standard as thin as a family of
four living for under $21,000 a year (a ridiculously low income for four
people to live on), it would be safe to assume that poverty is much
higher in this country than is officially reported:

This mass of destitution and potential homelessness is hidden away by one thing; entitlement programs. Welfare and foodstamps have created an illusory barrier between our society and the poor that inhabit it. What happens if entitlement programs disappear? All of that ugly truth we tried to ignore will come flooding into full view. Alternative
markets aren’t just a stop gap for ourselves, they are also a new
option for those who have lost everything to the volatile mainstream
economy. We can either make a safety net for those millions
struck by poverty, and help them to become self sufficient, or we can
let them stew out on the streets, waiting for more government handouts,
until they turn towards more violent means to get what they need. Ultimately, by creating new methods of commerce today, we can prevent far greater turmoil and destruction later on.

7) I don’t know if you have noticed, but the world seems to be going loony tunes lately. Unrest is washing over the Middle East like a boiling tidal wave. Protestors are being mowed down by gunfire in Syria, Yemen, and Egypt. The Libyan War is going to go on for years. Pakistan is barely able to hide its own destabilization. The U.S. is sending predator drones into people’s bathrooms in countries across the planet. The EU is now continuing its steady descent into debt default, one overleveraged country at a time. And,
Japan is living up to its reputation as the birthplace of such
luminaries as Godzilla and Mothra, its seas and air absorbing
radioactive material beyond anything we ever saw at Chernobyl. You have to wonder if this is all leading to some kind of climax.

Because of globalization, almost every nation on Earth has been pushed into interdependency with every other nation. At least economically. What happens on one side of the planet effects the other side of the planet. This
fact should be considered by those Americans who live oblivious to
world events, or ignorantly believe that what happens in Vegas stays in
Vegas. We are certainly not protected from the strife across the oceans. Why? Because we have no independent decentralized systems in place to counter the failings of global “harmonization”.

We as average Americans with limited incomes cannot
quickly develop alternative markets on a global scale, but we can
create such markets in our immediate communities. Each new
free and self contained market reinforces the others, until eventually,
you have a network of independent organizations which serve to support
each other simply by being independent. It sounds like a contradiction, or perhaps even a paradox, but it is an undeniable model. The more free a culture is, the more self reliant a culture is, the more prosperous it becomes. Our job, is to bring America back to that realm of prosperity, one town, one city, one state at a time

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66Sexy's picture

The Truth about America:

George Carlin ~ The American Dream

Kyron95131's picture

this in my opinion was some of the best and relevant work that carlin did towards the end of his life..

i miss em

max2205's picture

Take away= quit/stop stealing from the taxpayer

GW on the sanctioned US state of emergency powers currently in existence says it all. Nothing will change until whatever makes our Govt so afraid evaporates

Widowmaker's picture

Uncle Sam is afraid of YOU (presuming you are a US citizen).

Make no mistake about it.

When the unclean wake up uncle Sam Inc. is history.

Hugh G Rection's picture

My all time favorite Carlin clip.


I've informed all my employees to accept .999 silver or pre 65 junk as payment in my store.  Old school registers used to have a marble slab above the cash drawer to check for counterfeits, and a simple drop of the coin tells the story.


At some point I may take ammo for payment, but I never shoot anybody else's reloads.

IdioTsincracY's picture

"...without intuitive markets driven by the natural currents of supply, demand, and innovation, cultures stagnate, countries whither, and one generation after the next finds itself deeper in the somber doldrums of economic disintegration."

I must say that was truly poetic ...especially the part about natural currents .... now, how do speculation, algos, CDS and other artificial  instruments fit into these natural currents?

What about the structural and infrastructural investments that only a Nation as a whole can make?

Countries wither when they forget that there is such a thing as a 'more perfect union' and they rely solely on the whim of private entities (redy to move where cheap labor is), speculative capital (always looking for the market with lowest margins and tax rates), and Bankster, ready to pillage the whole economic system in the name of shareholders' interest.

A Nation should be greater than that .... better than sheeple dominated by a financial-political oligarchy, who looks at investment in the Nation as an expense to avoid, and asks for the demise of the middle class as a solution.

Decades of supply side, trickle down economic, and a market dominated by natural laws, and this is what we get ....

We scorn the government, forgetting that we are the Government ... well, not now, not this type of government, controlled by Banksters ....

go tell the fucking Supreme Court ... Corporations have the same rights as individuals ... Great!!

Solutions anybody??

MolotovCockhead's picture

How about molotovcocktail as a solution? Contain highly combustible liquid in it as a solution!!

UGrev's picture

wait a second.. did you really say "decades of supply side, trickle down economics" and mean it? Hmm. let me fix it..

..."decades of supply side and massively screwed with, manipulated and fucked up, trickle down economics, courtesy of everyone who doesn't want you (as George said) 'in the club' "... 

[FIXED SVN Revision 1776.2]

jeff montanye's picture

ron paul for president.  who for his vice president?  tptb will try to kill them both.

StychoKiller's picture

If Ron Paul really wants to win, he's gonna need the electoral votes of Wisconsin, hence he should choose Paul Ryan as his running mate (or Rubio, R-FL).

downwiththebanks's picture

Except that Paul Ryan is going to get his ass handed to him by the people of Wisconsin for proposing his 'Genocide 2020' plan.

Shell Game's picture

Global reversion to the mean is a real bitch.  Now, get over it and start preparing.


downwiththebanks's picture

Sure thing.  "We must keep shelling out welfare checks to the Banker-Gangsters for their afford high-priced hookers" seems a perfectly rational argument for killing your grandmother.

downwiththebanks's picture

Jesse would never run as a Republican.  And he would never run with someone who believes in Uncle Sam's alCIAda fairy tale.

Unlike Ron "John Birch Society" Paul, Jesse understands the role of the two-party duopoly in politics.

tip e. canoe's picture

maybe i'm wrong, but Jesse recently volunteered himself to be RP's running mate on the View.

downwiththebanks's picture

"If Ron Paul would quit the Republican Party, and he asked me, then I would give serious consideration to running with him."

Ron "John Birch Society" Paul - leave the GOP!!

What a laugher.

tip e. canoe's picture

thanks for the correction.  yeah, those masons all have some tangly alliances that's fo sho.  did you hear "Dr. Birch's" response to the offer?

(around 1:45)


XPolemic's picture

Solutions anybody??

My study of Anthropology involved the study of many groups of Hunters & Gatherers, some of which travelled up to 1500 kilometers in a given year. To travel that far, one is almost always on the move, often walking between 5 and 20 kilometers per day. Under these conditions, everything you 'own' is something else you need to carry, which after a while becomes rather a pain in the ass. So Hunter/Gatherers tend to view possesions as a burden rather than a privilege or a right.

Of course, with the rise of the agricultural revolution, humans began settling in permanent houses, and the transition from burden to privilege for one's possesions began. As this transistion occurred, humans developed systems of measuring 'ownership', a concept that was completely foreign during our time before the agricultural revolution. The Saxons developed a system of laws to determine ownership rights, and from them we get the expression 'property is nine tenths of the law', as nine in every ten Saxon laws related to the rights of ownership.

The problem with property laws however, is that someone needed to enforce them. Whether it was the village council, the King's men, or even an invading foreign power. Strictly speaking, having a armed militia enforce property rights was not the crux of the problem, the problem was that while the enforcers were happy to threaten, intimidate, beat or kill people to enforce ownership, they weren't so keen to enforce the law upon themselves.

And so began the problem of stability of 'government'. If the 'King' or 'Lord' or 'Government' enforced property rights equally, fairly and without predjudice, then society remained stable, and generally prospered. But when the enforcers of property rights abuse their powers to steal property from the citizenry, then the citizenry will look for ways to replace the enforcers with someone else.

The founders of the United States understood this implicitly, and so organised their Government with a separation of three powers, Executive, Judiciary and Legislature. The goal was to have the ambitious, ruthless and greedy go into one of those three branches of government, and spend their energy on fighting with the other two for power. In order to turn the government into a dictatorship, one had to corrupt all three branches along common lines. The three branches have different paths to power, so this was quite a difficult thing to do. In other words, it was the human race's best solution so far to the problem of 'who watches the watchers'?

But something has gone wrong. New legislation has been proposed by the Executive that is unconstitutional, passed by the Legislature, and currently enforced by the Judiciary. This is not the first time in US history that this has happened. Lincoln and Grant both suspended Habeaus Corpus, which is both unconstitutional and a basic tenet of common law. Eventually it was restored and the great social experiment continued.

This time though, it really is different. The United States is the world's remaining superpower, and a military/economic empire. The leaders of the US are out of touch with reality, and live in a delusional Potemkin world of past glories. They are busy playing their violins while their enemies raze the country to the ground.

Perhaps all that is required is a return to the separation of powers. Remove all special powers from the Executive, even in times of war, review legislation that is unconstitutional and repeal it. Before this can happen though, I think the US needs a crisis to wake the people from their slumber.

Sean7k's picture

I was with you all the way up to fixing it. This is the problem- you can't fix it. The police power of the state will ALWAYS result in class tyranny. 

Republican government was an attempt to mitigate the nature of man, however, it contains two main fallacies: one, while every branch is separate, they depend on the support of the others to legitimize their actions and fund their use of power. Two, you must believe that the Founding Fathers were attempting to create a utopia. 

While our history would have you believe this- they were just as selfish as a Jaime Demon or Blankfiend. Washington was the largest landowner in America and King Georges declaration regarding the indians rights to their lands directly affected him. Freedom for all? Only if you were a white male. You can attempt to excuse their behavior for a number of reasons, but they are only rationalizations- the fact is, the Elites always feel they are above the laws they create to support the system that guarantees their continued wealth.

Andrew Jackson tossed out the central bank, but remember he was a land speculator and deeply affected by how banks controlled the flow of credit. Worse, he is personally responsible for the slaughter of thousands and tens of thousands of Creek and Cherokee indians. 

There are zero safeguards from a police power vested in one authority. It will always be compromised. There is only safety in individual sovereignty, and then only with the greatest responsibility as a citizen. 

Humans will kill anything, without regard for the repercussions , if it one, benefits them and two, it can be accomplished without rebounding against them. How common is a Jesus Christ or Buddha? Unfortunately, you need thousands  of them to design and run a government that will provide for the greater good of the people. 

chumbawamba's picture

It's time for people to finally realize the truth behind the founding of the USA.  It is not the fairytale that is taught in public school, nor is it even the grand experiment described in countless books.  It was merely one grand campaign on the chessboard, the move still playing out.

Things are not what we think they are.

I am Chumbawamba.

cosmictrainwreck's picture

hey, I'm guilty of conspiratorialism as much as the next guy, but on this one IMHO, we'd greatly overestimate how 1)smart and 2)powerful the Rothschild clan & hangers-on are/were. Again, IMHO, a combo of smart-assed cold-blooded bankers and destiny. I'm betting the Almighty is still chuckling at the end-game

chumbawamba's picture

No, that kind of wishful thinking isn't going to cut it anymore.  They're much smarter than you and they have a whole lot more money than you do.  Time to evolve.

I am Chumbawamba.

chumbawamba's picture

No, that kind of wishful thinking isn't going to cut it anymore.  They're much smarter than you and they have a whole lot more money than you do.  Time to evolve.

I am Chumbawamba.

tip e. canoe's picture
Addressing the Ambassador directly, <Royal Clown> Prince Andrew then turned to regional politics. He stated baldly that “the United Kingdom, Western Europe (and by extension you Americans too”) were now back in the thick of playing the Great Game. More animated than ever, he stated cockily: “And this time we aim to win!”
XPolemic's picture

The police power of the state will ALWAYS result in class tyranny. 

Agreed, so we need a police state that results in the least class tyranny.

Two, you must believe that the Founding Fathers were attempting to create a utopia. 

No, you don't have to believe that at all. You just need to believe they were trying to create a system that was slightly better than the one that came before it (i.e. feudal monarchy).


There are zero safeguards from a police power vested in one authority. It will always be compromised. There is only safety in individual sovereignty, and then only with the greatest responsibility as a citizen. 

Individual sovereignty is delusional. If there is no police power to protect you from another citizen, then you must protect yourself. If you can protect yourself against another citizen, then they can always form a band of two. If you form a band of two, they can form a band of four, and so on. This is a system we once knew as feudalism.

This is the point that the RANDIOTS miss. Without a central police authority you have feudalism, which quite frankly is a bloody, unproductive constant struggle. While a single police state is not, and will never be, a utopia, if the state and the people share a common goal, it tends to be better than the alternative.

As Winston Churchill once famously said: "Democracy is the worst system of government, except for everything else"

Humans will kill anything, 

Yes, but the same is true of sharks, crocodiles and Megistotherium. Chimpanzees will kill for food and anything that threatens the troupe. They will also kill infants of a rival male (infantacide) and even eat them (cannabilism).

Yes, we should probably hold human beings to a higher stand than that of sharks, crocodiles or even other primates, but how does one enforce that higher standard without violence?

 How common is a Jesus Christ or Buddha? Unfortunately, you need thousands  of them to design and run a government that will provide for the greater good of the people. 

Buddhist don't believe in society, they believe in enlightenment. A human society with a government is simply a society that believes in property rights. Property rights are an illusion, created by post hunter/gatherer socities. Property rights are the source of our struggles.

Consider this: You claim that the elites are stealing from the you. But what if you didn't own anything? What would they steal?


Sean7k's picture

We need a police state?

No, they were creating a system that would benefit them. 

Individual sovereignty is not delusional- believing you can reform a corrupt and failed system is. Without a central police power, the people can purchase protection on a free market that will be beholden to them as consumers, they can focus on the recovery of their property, rather than paying taxes to house the thief. Security, insurance, arbitration- same services, lower cost and consumer oriented. 

Feudalism had a king rather than a central government- not the same systems as anarchy- not even close. 

Private property is what encourages production of goods and services for a different type of society. You may want to return to the hunter/gatherer type. I don't. Property rights are not an illusion, just caught in a negotiation that is driven by government. 

I like to own things. I like to keep the rewards from my hard work. I am willing and able to defend my property, but lets consider your naivete- hunters and gathers didn't have shelter, weapons, hunting grounds, mates and children that they had to defend? 

A human society with a government is a form of slavery. There is nothing simple or desirable about it. 


downwiththebanks's picture

Property RIGHTS aren't an illusion.  Those are just rules put forth by institutions.

PRIVATE PROPERTY - ownership of the earth - is the illusion.  Without the make-believe idea White Capital could never have rationalized it's rape and pillage of the world during the so-called Scientific Revolution.

XPolemic's picture

We need a police state?

Only if you want to enforce property rights.

Without a central police power, the people can purchase protection on a free market that will be beholden to them as consumers, they can focus on the recovery of their property, rather than paying taxes to house the thief. Security, insurance, arbitration- same services, lower cost and consumer oriented. 

Ha ha, thanks for the laugh. "Please Mr Security provider, can you take your big gun and get my property back, and not rob me while you are at it?" Got news for you Kid, Government is a security company, and your taxes are it's fees.

Feudalism had a king rather than a central government- not the same systems as anarchy- not even close. 

Hard to know, given that Anarchy has never actually existed as a system of social organisation, except in the fantasies of some deluded middle class utopians.

Private property is what encourages production of goods and services for a different type of society. You may want to return to the hunter/gatherer type. I don't. Property rights are not an illusion, just caught in a negotiation that is driven by government. 

I don't want to return to a hunter/gatherer society, hence I understand how post h/g societies have always been organised, and always will be, anything else is a fantasy.

I like to own things. I like to keep the rewards from my hard work. I am willing and able to defend my property

Then you will need to either specialise in protecting life and property, a specialist task that societies allocate to specialists, i.e. the police, or you will need to trade some of your earnings (taxes), so that those with specialist training can defend your property on your behalf.

but lets consider your naivete- hunters and gathers didn't have shelter, weapons, hunting grounds, mates and children that they had to defend? 

Correct. They rebuilt their shelter upon arrival, weapons were easily made, and just as easily discarded, hunting grounds were dispersed over a wide area, and given the limits of population of hunter/gatherer societies, always contained an overabundance of game or forage. Mates and children were defended from other animals, but murder was extremely rare, given the fragility of their existence, the relative abundance of food, and the lack of a 'possession' motive.

A human society with a government is a form of slavery. 

Yes. You have just described all human societies after the agricultural revolution.

There is nothing simple or desirable about it. 

Wrong, on both counts. Societies based on permanent settlements are simple and for the great majority, desirable. The middle class have always been blind to those who work to support them and their delusional, fantastical ideas about the world. A bit like spoiled children. Marx was probably the worst of them.

Sean7k's picture

Yes, everyone can stay in business by robbing their clients- great business model. Taxes are not the same as a negotiated contract for services, nor are the results the same.

My anarchial delusions are no worse than your delusions about your government and it's services, except I can prove your delusions are real, tyrannical and diametrically opposed to our well-being.

Anarchy isn't free, but if you would read up on the subject, you might understand how it operates. Claiming superiority through ignorance is not something I wouldn't want to brag about, but heh, different strokes for different folks.

Well, I guess I missread all that history about indian tribes killing each other for territory, food, supplies, wives and children. It was a real garden of eden.

No, I was describing all societies we have a historical record for with few exceptions- do bone up on the Xeer. The anarchial possibilities are legion.

Nothing wrong with societies based on permanent settlements, just as long as there isn't a central government with a central police power. 

Finally, there have been many posts by me showing the benefits of anarchy in this thread. None of them require a central police power to protect private property.

I suggest "Anarchy and the Law", by Stringham or anything by Murray Rothbard on anarcho-capitalism. 

XPolemic's picture

Finally, there have been many posts by me showing the benefits of anarchy in this thread. None of them require a central police power to protect private property.

Point me to the society that is enjoying those benefits right now. Or are they imaginary benefits of a future society that doesn't yet exist?

cranky-old-geezer's picture

The police power of the state will ALWAYS result in TYRANNY. 

There, fixed it.

The police power of the state is the CAUSE of ALL government tyranny.

The Founders didn't attempt to create a utopia.  The attempted to create a system of government with NO executive-branch police power.

How?  By separating government authority into three autonomous branches, legislative, executive, judicial.

The KEY to eliminating executive-branch police power is remove executive-branch ability to make laws and rules, putting it in the legislative branch, and remove executive-branch ability to enforce laws and rules, putting it in the judicial branch.

THAT'S what the Founders did in their 3-branch government model.  They ELIMINATED executive-branch police power. 

The executive branch had NO law-making authority and NO law-enforcing authority.

The very concept of "police" is anathema to everything the Founders did and everything America stands for.


There's NO way around it. Police are THE vehicle of government TYRANNY in America.

Police represent law making and law adjudicating coming together in the executive branch, the #1 thing the Founders attempted to eliminate.

In the 3-branch government model laid out by the Founders, the JUDICIAL branch does ALL law adjudicating and ALL law enforcing.  The executive branch does NO law adjudicating and NO law enforcing.

The 4th amendment declares DUE PROCESS as an unalienable right of the people. 

DUE PROCESS requires ALL government actions against a citizen to be in the hands of a JUDGE in the JUDICIAL branch. 

A JUDGE decides if action is to be taken against a citizen AFTER weighing the LAW and the FACTS presented in a COMPLAINT to the COURT, which can be filed by ANYONE, then considering the RIGHTS of the citizen to insure said rights are NOT being violated.

ONLY when a JUDGE decides action is to be taken and issues a COURT ORDER is action taken, and that action is NOT carried out by executive-branch police, it is carried out by the JUDICIAL branch officer of the Court, the COUNTY SHERIFF at the state level or US MARSHALL at the federal level.

Police VIOLATE that DUE PROCESS procedure by unilaterally taking action against citizens on their own accord, bypassing the judicial branch, playing JUDGE themselves.

THAT is TYRANNY. It's THE way TYRANNY is waged by government against citizens.

ALL executive branch law-making and law-enforcing positions OF ANY TYPE at ANY level of government in America are UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

Every federal executive branch rule-making and rule-enforcing agency is unconstitutional.

FBI, DEA, TSA, FEMA, Homeland Security, IRS, etc, etc, etc, all unconstitutional.

State troopers are unconstitutional.

Any other state police agency is is unconstitutional.

County commissions are unconstitutional.

City councils, zoning boards, school boards, school disticts, all unconstitutional.

City police and city courts are unconstitutional.

CITY GOVERNMENTS are unconstitutional PERIOD.

OldTrooper's picture

Perhaps all that is required is a return to the separation of powers.

I think there is one more element that needs to be restored to the mix - the very real prospect of impeachment, revolution (or secession) and heads ending up on pikes.  Don't forget, we started out with fairly distinct separation of powers - and look where we ended up.

aerojet's picture

While interesting, a lot of this information is irrelevant.  The world would have to lose 6+ Billion people to make hunter-gatherer behavior sustainable again, it isn't going to happen ever again and it is preposterous.  I realize it was just an example, but the point is, we are never returning to a separation of powers ever again.  The system has evolved into fascism.  The only answer now is to ignore the beast and route around it everywhere possible.  The problem is, too many people are hopelessly dependent on the system and will fight (and kill YOU) to defend it. 

Rhodin's picture

Fascism does not tolerate opposition or noncooperation. If the opposition is defeated, there will be a gulag of some sort for those lacking enthusiam for fearless leader.  At the least, they will be "milked" for resources.

Opting out, if done by large numbers, may advance the timing of the conflict.   Possibly a revolt succeeds and maybe even restores a republic for a time.  If not, it may take a while for facism to die of its self inflicted cancer.

Either way, population declines significantly, but not enough, i agree, for hunter-gather tribes in our lifetime.  Maybe great grandchildren will benefit from archery, foraging and wildcrafting skills, and maybe not.

Sean7k's picture

One, structural and infrastructure improvements can be done privately and at less cost. Providing you can actually show that they are improvements. Your assumption is just that, an assumption, unless you want to brag about a huge military out of control, nuclear weapons, NASA and more. 

The problem is government itself. They have one purpose- to benefit a small minority at the expense of the vast majority. Couched in promises of freedom and liberty for all, purple mountains majesty, wrapped in the flag is the cold reality of the police state. The lobbying, the payoffs and bribery, the abuse of law by the courts for the few, regulations that keep you poor and them rich. 

If government can be different, where are the examples? Monarchs and their abuse of taxes for luxury, their wars to pump up their image, the use of police to intimidate and confiscate as they debase their coinage until it is a joke? 

Communism or socialism, without a pricing structure for the market to value goods, the KGB or Tiannanmen square brutality, slave labor camps, all while the Bureaucrats dine in their dachas on the Black Sea or Beach resorts in China?

Democracy, where the people are given the choice of two identical candidates in different clothing, where regulation and law become intolerable and yet strangely ineffective for the wealthy, where taxes are the subject of continual increases and budgets never balance?

The philosopher king is an impossibility, therefore dictators and tyrannts will always plow the blood of their subjects into the ground with violence as they rape the country of its' wealth.

There are no paradises in human society, because humans populate them. While we have some control and security when everyone is equal- we have no security when one group is placed above another. 

Power must derive from the individual and be decentralized as it is organized. This is the basis of Anarchy and the inalienable rights associated with private property. People are capable of organizing their society without a single police power. It would not be a utopia. People would be robbed and grifted. Violence would rear its' head. Services and products would be uneven- just like it is now. However, you would pay less, what you paid would cause your contractors to work for your business, you could actually own property. All the services you desire would be just as available as they are now- you would merely pay for the ones you wanted and you would pay less than for comparable services now.

There would be no safety net, beyond your neighbors and friends, but charity would not disappear. You would have to work, but only as much as you needed. Competition would not be dependent on who you know or who you bought. Money would be sound or bankers would fail. We wouldn't have to send our sons and daughters overseas to die for corporate resouce grabs, but I can live with that. No more elections, no need for media propaganda or education systems that dumb down the people. The options and opportunities would be as varied as the free market is itself.

We cannot accurately represent what anachy would evolve into, because we have not tried. Still, if the systems you have are all irretrievably broken and shattered, what have we got to lose? Except the chains from crushing debt... 

tip e. canoe's picture

"charity would not disappear."

i choose to believe that "charity" would actually increase substantially overall under such a scenario.

we got find a different word though JR.   An-R-kee is too loaded with explosive mis-connotations at this point and time is too short to launch a campaign to redefine it.

Sean7k's picture

I agree wholeheartedly, on both counts.

knowless's picture

anarcho-capitalist(ancap), libertarian, or libertarian left sound good?

CH1's picture

I like Voluntaryism. It gets right to the moral issue.

NidStyles's picture

When you say Libertarian left, you are making it sound like Libertarian Socialism, which in reality is nothing more than Marxism with a different label to hide how absolutely fucked it is.

Sean7k's picture

The problem is that words are quickly coopted and their meaning changed. Libertarians became quasi Republicans in order to be included in the discussion. Classical Liberal became liberal became socialist. Conservative became crony capitalist warmongering asshat. 

In the divide and conquer mindset of the Elites, doublespeak begats the confusion they desire. If I had to choose? Perhaps, "don't tread on me". 

However, it is more difficult to destroy an idea. If we can stay true to an idea that is liberty first and foremost- we may have a better chance.

NidStyles's picture

The original Libertarian's were co-opted by the Marxist's in Europre, so don't think that it's just the US where this has happened.


That's why the word Anarchy or Voluntarism both worth. No one screw's with Anarchy, because everyone are scared of it until they understand it. The Marxist's tried to twist Anarchy in Europe as well, but it never worked out for them. Voluntarism is hard to twist, as the concept of the philosophy is defined as an action that takes place directly through the connotation of the concept alone. In other words, the entire Philosophy is in the name itself. No twisting can be done based on some philosophical basis.

tip e. canoe's picture

and ms. ann R. kee has also traveled extensively thru america on both sides --

a decent history of the constructive side here:

as for the destructive side, i give you this:

"They were also known to be dedicated supporters of Luigi Galleani's Italian-language journal Cronaca Sovversiva, the most influential anarchist journal in America, feared by the authorities for its militancy and its acceptance of revolutionary violence."

now, out of these 2 definitions, which one of these do our think our fearless leaders are going to choose to spread if necessary?  as you said yourself,

everyone are scared of it

now, could be my paranoid schizophrenia talking, but methinks the trolls are already planting the mines.   just be careful you don't step on them if i'm right.   and if not, you still  learned a new dance.   cheers.

tip e. canoe's picture

funny sean, i was actually thinking about pulling out my gadsen flag today.    had to bury it in a dark corner due to those pesky mis-connotations from the neighbors, but methinks it's time to pull it out again.

gotta love the snake.