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Guest Post: Anatomy Of Silver Manipulation - How Low Can It Go?

Tyler Durden's picture


From Avery Goodman, first posted on Seeking Alpha

Anatomy Of Silver Manipulation - How Low Can It Go?

As we warned
our readers on May 1, 2011, when silver had clawed its way back to
about $48 per ounce: “We expect another massive price attack in the next
few days.”

We came to this conclusion based upon a
number of factors, including the impending opening of the Hong Kong
Merchantile Exchange, which will be controlled by many of the same
international players who control NYMEX. Like clockwork, a vicious
attack, perhaps the most ferocious one ever mounted in the history of
precious metals, began on Monday, May 2, 2011. We knew it was coming, but to be honest, we didn’t expect the level of ferocity. Following
our own suggestions, when silver had tanked by about 18%, we entered
into a small speculative long position, using the SIVR silver trust. The price punched right through the minor support level we had chosen, and continued down.

we realized the depth of the silver short seller despair, we would have
played the game a bit differently. We would have waited longer, bought
a lot more later on, and created a much longer term position. As it is,
we have lost nearly nothing, and will do it anyway. Nevertheless, as
irrational as this kind of thinking is, and as much as we warn people
against it, human beings are human beings and we are not happy about
putting on a little bet, no matter how small, that fails to catch the
bottom of a dip.

The level of despair among short sellers, which
is motivating this attack, is growing. Anything could happen at this
point. They could give up entirely, or the attack could become more
ferocious. We don't know. What we do know is that the short sellers'
predicament has just grown worse. They will eventually become even more
desperate than they are now as weeks and months pass by. We will
explain why shortly.

read the rest here


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Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:21 | 1256508 suckerfishzilla
suckerfishzilla's picture

Metal brokers in Portland Oregon are still honoring the take-down price of Silver.  I just bought in at $39.50/oz.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:29 | 1256543 Magnix
Magnix's picture

Whats the Web address?

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:34 | 1256568 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture



Gotta' love James Cramer, aka Captain Slow.


05-09 15:30: Jim Cramer says the banking business is not good
Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:39 | 1256586 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Silver asteroid approaching earth:


An asteroid the size of an aircraft carrier will come closer to Earth this autumn than our own moon does, causing scientists to hold their breath as it zooms by.




Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:00 | 1256672 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

You left out an important detail.

"There's no danger of an impact when the asteroid 2005 YU55 makes its close flyby Nov. 8, coming within 201,700 miles (325,000 kilometers) of Earth, scientists say."

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 18:39 | 1257225 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

WOW.... I feel so much better now. Hope those scientists are of the "reputable" variety; or maybe "experts", even. Reminder: it's the one ya didn't see....

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 03:24 | 1258278 hidingfromhelis
hidingfromhelis's picture

Yeah, if they were economists then we'd really have something to worry about!

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 13:09 | 1259632 agNau
agNau's picture

Comet Blythe is approaching. Scientist's estimate it will wipe out all the Silver longs.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:14 | 1256717 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

Right on the heels of another comet, comet Elenin. That comet is to approach earth within .2 AU on the 25th of September. JPL has soom java based applets that model the trajectory of these near earth objects.

Elenin was heading to it's farthest point away from our sun 200 years before the birth of Christ. Hope it's visible in North Amarica and we have clear skies that day.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:33 | 1256982 Pegasus Muse
Pegasus Muse's picture

Metal brokers in Portland Oregon are still honoring the take-down price of Silver.  I just bought in at $39.50/oz.

Aren't you lucky!  Other major dealers don't seem to be following suit.  If fact at least one is out of stock of some of its more popular items.

And on ebay prices have barely budged: 


Mon, 05/09/2011 - 18:15 | 1257171 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

If you can afford the minimum's - head on over to Tulving.

* I have no other affiliation then being a customer.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:03 | 1257268 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

This was a really well-written article, one of the special few that commanded my attention for its entirety.


With the dip in silver spot, I've been able to get below-melt-value purchases from eBay sellers again on silver coins (SAEs, of course, still command higher prices).  My most recent buy a few days ago was 7% under melt value (and that included shipping).  Gonna make some more buys this week.  The deals are there if you have the patience and time to look for them.  Some sellers are savvy, while others are noobs who simply inherited Grandpa's forgotten attic stash and want to liquidate for FRNs.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:40 | 1257405 HellFish
HellFish's picture

Do you have any worries about getting counterfeit metal?

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 21:37 | 1257692 OldTrooper
OldTrooper's picture

Always a consideration - but the well-established sellers have earned high ratings over years.  They want happy customers as much as local dealers do (at least the US sellers do - never bought from foreigners).  Can pick up some decent deals buying on EBay - and there's always something available.  I've never had a problem.

But I've gotten good prices from local dealers too.  Often better than comparable items on EBay.

Shop Smart - Shop S-Mart.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:38 | 1256583 suckerfishzilla
suckerfishzilla's picture

columbiacoin dot com is the web address.  To buy in person go to 5048-B SE Hawthorne Blvd Portland OR.  They have a huge inventory still unlike many other outlets here in town.  I am not affiliated with them btw just good friends. 

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:43 | 1256603 suckerfishzilla
suckerfishzilla's picture

Hey partner I tried to give you the exact address of the company but my comment doesn't get posted.  Just look in the phone directory for Portland Oregon and at 50th and SE Hawthorne is the flagship for Silver here in town.  There I hope that does it. 

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:43 | 1256604 suckerfishzilla
suckerfishzilla's picture

never flocking mind

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:53 | 1256638 achmachat
achmachat's picture

i think this time i might actually have bought at a real dip!

i got lotsa physical for just above 28 €/ounce! The same shop has them already at 30,76 €/ounce.

I deserve a t-shirt that says: "I BTFD!"

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:58 | 1256890 AG BCN
AG BCN's picture

Premiums in Europe are well fu*ked up at the minute. My local dealer has become a greedy bastard. If I order from the US I have to dodge the Spanish customs, the UK is a no go due to the VAT. The German sites are no better than the Swiss now.

Where are you buying?

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:16 | 1256942 achmachat
achmachat's picture

i am not in Germany but always buy my bullion from Germany, where I get the best deals.

this is the one I have ordered from last week:

I used to get my bullion from a different dealer, but had to change to this one because the previous one can't deliver to my country anymore as they have reached their export quota.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:38 | 1256805 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

I would just like to publicly state that "Avery Goodman" is not a pseudonym for "Turd Ferguson".

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:46 | 1257093 woolly mammoth
woolly mammoth's picture

The positive feedback you received on the WebBotForum interview was deserved. Well done Turd. I'm not an investor having chosen to interact with the system as little as possible, only buy and hold for me, regardless, I'm still looking forward to your new site and your insights.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 20:57 | 1257582 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

It didn't sound like your writing, but I thought it was a very illuminating article all the same. BTW, love your blog, even though I'm not a trader. I think I am beginning to understand some of the elements of TA, so thanks for sharing your considerable insight!

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:46 | 1256509 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture

Lying, cheating, stealing Bastards!

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 18:41 | 1257236 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Yep you can expect non-stop BS and PR (snake oil) by CME but it's way too late... the damage has been done, to the Silver price, investors and to any credibilty the CME/Comex held previously ..and if you needed any more evidence the emptying of Silver from the Comex should put the final nail in the coffin  

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 00:30 | 1258105 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

From the article:

If those who have been dismissed as paranoid people end up being right, and there is not enough silver in the stockpile to cover claims, jail cells will be waiting.

I'll admit I got a chuckle outta that one.  Jail time?  That's really rich.

Ain't gonna happen.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 04:05 | 1258307 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

there should be SEC investigations launched already for the vandalising of the Silver market by CME and the market volatility and investor fleecing they caused. But we're talking Chicago gangsters here under gun-them-down instructions from the usual New York Mafia... the crones (regulators) will do absolutely nothing about this insider trading or the mahem 'big organised crime' caused

...CME "helping farmers manage their risk" ...someone ought to warn the famers!

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:24 | 1256533 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

These article already seems out of date to me. Below 22.50?

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:10 | 1257313 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Possibly, with the big boys manipulating things.  Who woulda seriously thunked two weeks ago that the spot would go from $49 down to $34?  Time will tell...we're in the Twilight Zone now.  Your next stop...end of Q2 in June.

<Twilight Zone music plays for dramatic effect>

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:25 | 1256539 Robslob
Robslob's picture

All my "wire" transfers to APMEX go through JP Morgan Chase...a little concerning?

1 week later I got an offer for a new credit card from JP Morgan Chase....coincidence?

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:32 | 1256571 gordengeko
gordengeko's picture

Max it out and buy silver then default on the debt.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:38 | 1256582 gordengeko
gordengeko's picture

Or after you max it out ask them to increase your debt so you can then make their payments.  If they say no, tell them fuck you then default.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:57 | 1256612 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

I like your style.


I've got a couple HSBC and Chase cards, thinking of loading up on the double bottom around $35, threatening bankruptcy and settling for pennies on the dollar.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:50 | 1256639 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Make a couple of payments first, then pay less than the minimum. Then max it back out and default.

No payments made makes it look like you were running a scam, and makes them more likely to sue you because a judge will see it that way too. If you use it normally for a while, while making payments, then load it up with silver, make a few more payments, then top it off with normal stuff, it should be ok.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:23 | 1256750 A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000
A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000's picture

That sounds like a pretty shitty thing to do. What did the banks ever do to you?


Oh wait, now I remember. Never mind.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:35 | 1256800 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

hahahaha....ya almost had there. but I am surprised tmosley would be a conspirator; thought he was such an upstanding citizen

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 18:34 | 1257217 Creed
Creed's picture

You guys are nuts, or greedy.


If you operate the same way THEY DO then you are no different then them.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 18:49 | 1257259 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You can't be a moral man while living in an immoral world unless you resign yourself to being a slave.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 18:58 | 1257267 Creed
Creed's picture

You can't be a moral man while living in an immoral world unless you resign yourself to being a slave.

Complete BULLSHIT.

No matter how you rationalise it it's WRONG to borrow money with the intent to defraud the lender.

It is entirely possible to hold your head high as you go through life.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:21 | 1257336 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

+1, Creed.  We hold ourselves to a higher standard.  Stiffing someone else and/or taking advantage of them just because you don't personally see them face-to-face is wrong.

Isn't that what the "non-producers" that stay on the long-term government welfare rolls do?  You know, the ones who are part of the now-famous 47% of Americans who pay no Federal income tax and stick it to the rest of us "producers"?  I personally know a FEW people who have become a permanent part of the welfare/unemployment system and actually make jokes to me that I'm working hard in the office while the gov't skims from my taxes to pass it along to them so they can sit at home and watch Wheel of Fortune all day long.

Pisses me off.  Grrrrrr..

Seems pretty hypocritical to (justifiably) get angry with those leeches, but then advocate being a leech on someone else above you.

Unless ya'll were just joking about the CC scandal thing.  In that case, HAHAHAHA!

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:46 | 1257414 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Who, exactly, do you think you are "borrowing" from when you spend money on a credit card?

Further, I would direct you to the case study of Ragnar Danneskjold, the pirate from Atlas Shrugged.  Theft from thieves is not theft, but retribution.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 23:17 | 1257938 mojine
mojine's picture

With you all the way on this one T. M.  Credit card debt is "money from nothing" Scenario as described is just reclaiming a small portion of what the banks have stolen and are constantly stealing from us all.

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 05:06 | 1258345 MisterMousePotato
MisterMousePotato's picture

"Borrow money?!?"

I find that most people think of their credit card debt, etc., in the same terms they might if they were talking about borrowing, oh, say, ten thousand bucks from their father in law. Or the It's a Wonderful Life kinda banking we all grew up with.

But we are talking about something else here.

A TRUE lending relationship is when I lend YOU something I HAVE, meaning I lack it until it is repaid.  If you don't repay, I lose.  Where the fuck is the LACK on ANY banker's part after having "lent" $50T of Z1 credit into the FRN zone????  Have they been living as paupers all these years after lending all these FRNs out?  I mean, surely they lent SOMETHING real, right?  And when someone defaults, do these bankers end up LOSING permanently the value lent?

The whole fucking system is an OUTRIGHT fraud.  The money powers belong to the people and must be run as a public utility.  We have granted seigniorage and ultimate power to a bunch of crooks.  Bankers are legalized parasites.  They add NOTHING of value to this societal equation.  EVERY function they perform could be performed by public utilities.

In fact, the reason true fiat currencies haven't worked is because BANKS through speculative attacks, have destroyed every one of them.  The BOE used the Sterling Bill to destroy bimetallism and rape nations.  There is NO reason whatsoever that fictitious money could not be "lent" by the US Treasury, or as Friedman maintained, printed by a fucking computer.

(Disclaimer: I stole the foregoing rant from some outraged ZeroHedger some months back. Wish I was as articulate.)

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:44 | 1257419 HellFish
HellFish's picture


I'm gonna go with tmosley on this one.

The bank would rape you in a second wherever it could.  They reap what they sow.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:38 | 1257391 Lets_Eat_Ben
Lets_Eat_Ben's picture

Good point. If one borrows to speculate on a highly manipulated asset with the intent of defaulting, then one has committed the same "sins" against capitalism that has destroyed the system currently in place.


They may have the power and the hookers with cocaine that goes with it, but WE have the moral high-ground, so ha ha ha ha ha ha you are going to he-ell

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:44 | 1257418 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You gain purchasing power that would have otherwise remained in the hands of TPTB.

This is war, guys.  All is fair.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:43 | 1256835 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Make a few payments.

Initially always take their phone calls.

Make a couple more partial payments intermittently.

Get a new phone number.

Make partial payment below the minimum to make you look like a naive fool.

Laugh and keep the rest of it. You are now immune from fraud charges.

What did the banks do to me? Ruined the economy, spent most of the recapitalization funds on bonuses. Corrupted our government. Shall i go on?

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:49 | 1256859 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

"makes it look like you were running a scam..."

But you ARE trying to run a scam with the structuring you describe,

especially the default part.

Why can't you just buy what you can with what you have in hand, and forget playing their game, lest you become one of them.

Two wrongs never make a right.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:53 | 1256874 BigJim
BigJim's picture

You're right - you should never, ever rob a thief.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:36 | 1257042 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Three lefts do.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:19 | 1257333 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

Three lefts do.

hmm...never thought of it like that.  that's crazy deep, yo!

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 23:14 | 1257936 Rhodin
Rhodin's picture

Not too deep. Just a good way to make a turn in a city at times.  Pisses off (and/or exposes) most surveilance and you just look like a bubble head that missed their turn.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 23:18 | 1257943 Rhodin
Rhodin's picture

Deleted (instant double)!

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:51 | 1257432 unununium
unununium's picture

Two Wrights made the first airplane.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:50 | 1256623 Ray1968
Ray1968's picture
Is it just me or does it seem that as the price of silver dropped, the APMEX premium went up?? The premium for an Eagle is now around $8/oz. I could have sworn it was around $4-5/oz.
Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:16 | 1256724 PenchantForHoarding
PenchantForHoarding's picture

Gainesville or CNI - Wayyyyyyyy better deal. I don't get why so many ppl use APMEX.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:14 | 1256937 Inibo E. Exibo
Inibo E. Exibo's picture

I use APMEX because I've compared their prices with the "bargain" dealers and by the time I calculated shipping it was neve more than a few cents difference.  They have inventory and they make it easy.  Maybe a lot of it is just that I bought there my first time, but they have given me no reason to stop buying from them.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 20:59 | 1257577 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

I have only ever bought from APMEX myself. No complaints whatsoever.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:37 | 1256813 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Prior to the drop, it was $3-4.

And yes, damn near all their silver products have had their premiums go up. Even the scratch and dent shit went from $1.10 to 1.79. 100ozt bars are up about a dollar per ozt.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:53 | 1256648 Robslob
Robslob's picture


It wasn't the silver hike that was concerning due to was the lack of hikes in EVERY other major commodtiy that has been ramped through the roof that confirmed our thinking...

But I guess "critical" thinking isn't your strong suit.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:54 | 1256661 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Add to that that the margin wasn't hiked once or twice, but FIVE times, with one of the announcements being for two separate hikes. This is nonsense behavior.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:25 | 1256758 A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000
A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000's picture

Fuck! Why didn't I listen to Future Man when he told me to sell at $48?

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:46 | 1257082 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Probably because you hadn't registered before that.

Hi new sock puppet!

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:27 | 1256991 Confucious 222
Confucious 222's picture

rsi1 = another retard who thinks that silver going from 25 cents to $49.00 has somehow multiplied its presence in the Earth's crust. Or does the FED just print it now???

rsi1 = another idiot who believes that green colored fiatscos have now become the best conductor of both heat and electrons known to man, as  well as the best reflector of photons. Or does the FED do that now???

rsi1 = another ignoramus who cannot fathom how both gold AND SILVER have been storehouses of value for thousands of years of human history. Or is that what you think the FED should be now???

rsi1 = another Fedwetting twirp who ASSumes that a 60 year old price suppression scheme MUST CONTINUE indefinitely because the FED supports it.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 18:59 | 1257282 Creed
Creed's picture

Sure, seasonality comes into play now as long as the dollar doesn't continue to crash, in which case all bets are off.

I'm pretty sure you did not read the article above that you are commenting upon, because the author clearly explained how silver was taken down with margin calls as a coup de grace- not the sole reason or even the main one.

No question the margin calls were excessive & deliberately timed to achive a desired result. Absolutely no question about it at all.

by rsi1
on Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:28

Another retard that thinks parabolic movements shall continue to infinity and that margin hikes, which are totally logical with increased volatility and value of the contract actually brought the price down.. Well, longs and shorts have both to cough up more margin! not only the longs.. anyhow.. Silver, time to rest for the summer as usual!

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:24 | 1257354 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture


Well, it looks like my personal record of 32 junks for a single comment has been broken by you... LOL

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:28 | 1256541 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Hi CME group! Fuck you bunch of cocksuckin manipulators!!

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:40 | 1256602 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

That's no way to talk to the group responsible for putting my favorite metal on sale.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:00 | 1256880 fuu
fuu's picture

CME Group Market Cap still under $20 billion even after the buyback annoncement. Pretty cheap really when you think they control Comex, Globex, APMEX, CBOT, CME, NYMEX, and DJIA.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:27 | 1256546 Ancona
Ancona's picture

Death to the manipulators. Without all of this un-backed silver and gold, where would the true price be?

Me thinks somewhere north of a hell of a lot more than industry wants to pay, that's for fucking sure.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:57 | 1256658 suckerfishzilla
suckerfishzilla's picture

If this market were not manipulated how many of us would be investing in it or looking for some other undervalued niche in the market hmm?

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:52 | 1256871 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

If these markets were not being manipulated,

we could have normal lives, buying mutual funds, CDs, etc.,

paying a lot less attention to the financial manipulations and more attention to the real things of life.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 20:51 | 1257570 WeekendAtBernankes
WeekendAtBernankes's picture


Tue, 05/10/2011 - 05:27 | 1258356 Mec-sick-o
Mec-sick-o's picture

If these markets were not being manipulated, we would go to Vegas.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:27 | 1256549 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

In the later stages of any mania the asset trades purely on sentiment.

While the easy money has been made silver is headed back to near forty soon. Watch banks for non confirmation of my thesis. They are a proxy of trust in the short term.

Distrust and getting caught in lies help gold and silver.

Trichet's nuclear bomb today will not be forgotten. It is the.confirmation that the euro is in serious trouble.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:30 | 1256552 overbet
Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:30 | 1256563 tickhound
tickhound's picture

Stopped reading here...

"There are genuine folks over at CFTC, like Commissioner Bart Chilton"

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:50 | 1256636 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Funny when they have to resort to asserting there are really 1 or 2 non-assholes over there.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:36 | 1256587 Sokhmate
Sokhmate's picture

I am so praying to goes down to the twenties.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:21 | 1256972 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Hello, this is your good morning wake call.

Silver by "natural market forces, caused by artificial forces" has already bottomed, and is already on the way up again. It will only go down to 20 via the "help" of the usual "wizards".

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 18:25 | 1257196 Sokhmate
Sokhmate's picture

i'd love the wizards to sorcer at least a surgical visit to the twenties, so i can perform a surgical physical grab.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 20:04 | 1257457 Mr. Majestic
Mr. Majestic's picture

Two words. Monster Box.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 21:02 | 1257588 WeekendAtBernankes
WeekendAtBernankes's picture

You take the Monster Box.  I'm using rectangular coffins to mold my bars.  Pour it in, let it set, haul it back to the summoning circle and *poof*

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:36 | 1256588 apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

The bankster trolls at SeekingAlpha are just so,so transparent.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:42 | 1256610 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

one can parse the words of the man but the fact remains if silver is surpressed in price and folks ask for physical delivery then comex must needs have the silver, and ship it.

i have a gut feeling which of course may be wrong. but i think enough people like me are so fed up with the shenanigans that they simply want to walk away with their physical, and let things play out as they will.

last week during the plunge i bought some more physical. if silver plunges again i'll do the same again. i've learned in my life that if i'm thinking about something so are others. we'll see.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:38 | 1257048 Missiondweller
Missiondweller's picture

Exactly, in discust sold paper silver and bought more physical

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 21:02 | 1257595 WeekendAtBernankes
WeekendAtBernankes's picture

Gotta love the phys.  Talk about peaceful protest.  The message may be stronger than a vote at this point.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:47 | 1256617 AR15AU
AR15AU's picture

Meh... I'm a long who has been long since $12 - $14. Honestly, at $45 I decided to unload some quantity on all the newbs. I am not affiliated wth JPM in any way. Just looking to lock in some gains, and I will be buying hand over fist at $25 as we prepare for the next wave up past $100, on to my personal $200 price target.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:10 | 1256707 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You aren't locking in gains by selling it for paper money. In fact, all you are doing is weakening your position.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:31 | 1256776 AR15AU
AR15AU's picture

Bullshit... I'm way better off than having never bought. And I used the proceeds to purchase 4 more firearms and a truck. When I look at my cost basis on the silver, the % of the original amount invested would have never purchased 4 firearms and a truck. So, its not like I'm sitting here going long USD. I mainly just cashed out relative to other goods which haven't lurched up in price by 200% in 2 years. I'm also still long 95% of my silver stack and have yet to sell any gold.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:38 | 1256820 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That is true, just keep in mind that it is the dollar that is the speculative "commodity", not silver.

In reality, you spent your silver on goods.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 21:07 | 1257611 WeekendAtBernankes
WeekendAtBernankes's picture

I agree.  Def. not junkworthy, though as a brace of commenters said the other day, "...And the truth will get you junked ... And the junk will set you free."

It is wise to reinforce the notion that we don't measure the worth of silver in dollars.  It's the dollar that's to be measured in silver.  Impractical in daily life but essential in perspective.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:38 | 1257398 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Way to go, AR15AU.  If any type of currency - whether FRN or PM - is only a means to an end (purchasing a good), then what you did was simply make a smart play in the system to magnify your purchasing ability to buy more goods.  The people who junked you are just jealous.  Or not smart enough to repeat what you did...

Tue, 05/10/2011 - 16:22 | 1260378 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Never, Ever, Slander PMs by referring to them as a type of currency!!!


Gold and Silver are money, FRNs are currency asswipes.

Thu, 05/12/2011 - 19:02 | 1269962 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

A currency is a means of trade, as you should know by now.  And since gold and silver are more reliable than FRNs, they make for more reliable trade units.

As it should be, right?  So if silver is "slandered" for being referred to as currency, then what do you have to say about all the 90% coins we used in the USA before 1965?

You're an ignoramus who shoots quickly from the hip out of anger, and thus misses the target.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:24 | 1256989 Rynak
Rynak's picture

My proposal: If for whatever reason, you temporarily want to get out of silver, then convert it to gold. You still hold physical and therefore cannot face the problem of "sorry, everythings already taken now, nanananana".

Downside? Depending on where you live, you pay VAT again for reentry into silver. But then again, this also would apply in the case of converting it to paper.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:06 | 1257292 Creed
Creed's picture

nice work AR15AU that's a great way to play it

only way you come out wrong is if the dollar crashes before you can reload and the odds are in your favor

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:45 | 1256618 Smu the Wonderhorse
Smu the Wonderhorse's picture

EXCELLENT article.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:46 | 1257083 Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

Ditto that. And thanks for posting it.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:48 | 1256620 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Agree, I bought in on Friday at $36.60 and with the premium $38.35.

And I would say the only retard is the on this blog today.

Great article. Not a big believer in manipulation of the markets as that would take a modicum of intelligence in our elected and hired gun officials, but last week was rather.../."strange".

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:51 | 1256642 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Nah, manipulation only requires thugs with a printing press.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:56 | 1256869 SHRAGS
SHRAGS's picture

If you want to see the mechanics of the manipulation, see Costata's Silver open forum on FOFOA's blog:

You may not agree with his conclusion, but it is an excellent analysis of how a market can be manipulated through Bullion Banks tenticles extending into every aspect of the silver business.


In addition, here is a great artical on the oil price manipulation by the majors from an industry insider, Chris Cook


The manipulation is real.


Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:54 | 1256641 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

Played it a little different, saw the writing on the walls at $43 and sold, moved all-in to gold.  Thought the 5% move down there was an opportunity and silver would bounce for sometime.  Of course, there is no reason in my opinion to buy anything paper - I even look at USD with disgust these days.  CHF, AG and gold......nothing to me on the other side.... 

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:54 | 1256643 monopoly
monopoly's picture

I am not worried about the price of gold or silver here, 1500, 1600... 30, 35 45 on silver. What difference does it make? Are we doing this for next week or next month. This is long term protection for me. My guess is in 5 years we will all have very big smiles. I just keep adding physical on the dips.

I do play the miners, and have done well over the years. But, first to admit, last week wiped out 3 months of profits in 5 days. Makes sense in this sick world, miners have great earnings, gold at 1,500 and they trade like gold is at 800. Yup, makes perfect sense. NOT!!!

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:55 | 1256662 legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

Agreed, we are not traders.... "we own"

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:56 | 1256657 monopoly
monopoly's picture

When we talk about manipulating the markets, are we not talking about "intelligent people who know what they are doing". Has anyone seen anyone like that lately in a position of power???


Mon, 05/09/2011 - 21:11 | 1257624 WeekendAtBernankes
WeekendAtBernankes's picture

The ones we see and hear are the useful idiots.  There are very intelligent people behind the scenes.  Unfortunately, they are possessed by malicious greed and awash in opportunities without consequences.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 15:58 | 1256665 Rynak
Rynak's picture

As i wrote elsewhere:

After barely 7 days since the attack:

- Silver stabilized and going up fast

- Gold stabilized and going up fast

- CRB stabilized

- Dollar Index upwards trend losing steam

THIS situation after all this effort, after just a week? It looks like the targets of the attack didn't quite learn their supposed lesson. How often do Fiat Al Harakiri and Blythe want to repeat this to keep the sector in check? Every 3 weeks? It may be that the only way they can "stop" this, is crashing the comex themselves..... no need anymore for us to do this.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:02 | 1256681 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Unless you have the cash and the intention to stand for delivery on a long Comex silver contract, or fiat in excess of the Bernank's printing capabilities, why play their game?

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:03 | 1256693 Michael Victory
Michael Victory's picture

My local coin store is in a fix. They bought so much at the $45+ level then can't get rid of anything at these prices. Just another example of a divergence between paper and bullion on the street.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:23 | 1256753 Slim
Slim's picture

This is not an example of physical vs. paper but a retail establishment exposing themselves to a highly volatile asset and getting caught with a slug of inventory purchased far above current market.  This is the entire reason why businesses hedge themselves.  If a retail shop earns a premium, when vol is this high, you focus on the premium and doing volume, not making directional bets or exposing yourself to things completely out of your control.  This is an example of the value in hedging yourself to some degree and preserving your core business so you aren't frozen out and unable to service your customers without realizing a major loss.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:39 | 1256790 Michael Victory
Michael Victory's picture

Lets say then that it's the way things look on my street. These guys are 70+ and their heads have been spinning for the past month. Yup they did expose themselves to a highly volatile asset and got caught with a shit load of inventory. Ask these old boyz what a hedge is and they'll tell you a bunch of closely grown bushes or shrubs.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:23 | 1256962 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

If they are their 70's they survived 1980, 1987, 2008.  The turnaround this time will be measured in weeks not years (granted 1980 was 30 years).  In the interim there's eBay. At least silver inventory retains its value if not its price over time, unlike widgets or wheat.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:25 | 1256978 tmosley
tmosley's picture

This is exactly why this story sounds like utter bullshit. I don't know ANY coin seller who doesn't hedge. Except maybe for the little guys running pawn shops.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 20:36 | 1257538 Rocket-Man
Rocket-Man's picture

Yes... they are on-line hedging the same minute they are selling to you.  I have seen them do it in a small shop and they even told me one time they were doing it, further explaining that they are not in the speculation business.  They make money on the trade as they should.

If they are not hedging immediately, they have become speculators with their own orders and inventory and changed business models.



Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:05 | 1256701 Ryman1075
Ryman1075's picture

I hope that all longs take delivery at any price.  Once the delivery defaults start, prices will go to infinity and beyond.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:07 | 1256703 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

THE article is right about one thing. Don't buy all at once. I've been buying constantly for about 16 months now on à weekly basis. THE best way to see your treasure rise.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:07 | 1256704 Chicago_CTA
Chicago_CTA's picture


I never thought I'd say this to you but please take off the F***** tin-foil hat!

Some of you silver goons are plain loony.  YOu can NEVER accept it when silver declines, because it's only supposed to go up.


Following CME's margin hikes on silver, it liquidated $5 in one session.....$25,000 per contract, just enough margin to keep these [wonderful] markets intact and avoid debits.

People smarter than you are not surprised the market failed at $50 resistance.   Following that failure we had a cascading wholesale liquidation.


What bothers me about silver bugs is that you fools NEVER BELIEVE the market can legitimately go down.


I'm generally bullish on silver, as well as gold, but don't rant and rave when it goes down sometimes.





Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:13 | 1256713 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

So how are your investments doing punk?
Been shorting silver hè?

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:16 | 1256719 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

We don't care what you think. Unlike you, we actually watch the volume that is moving, and pay attention to how much is actually moving out there.


Apparently, twice last week an entire years worth of production moved in one day. Not just once, but twice. Who is holding an entire years worth of production out there? I doubt anyone that says they've ever seen that much silver in one place. Nope no Manipulation at all, especially when it all moved at the opening bell. LMAO! Yep, Tin-foil hat, right.....

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:18 | 1256731 tmosley
tmosley's picture

The market liquidated when a bunch of people were making non-economic decisions by liquidating vast amounts of silver during the most thinly traded market hours of the entire year (with both London and Shanghai closed for holidays), by some guys who got the news a few minutes early that OBL had been killed. The market quickly recovered, but the CME was having none of that, and raised margins FOUR more times over the next few trading days, again in a non-economical manner (ie they should have made one large hike, rather than a bunch of small ones).

Bull fucking shit this wasn't planned from the start.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:31 | 1256769 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Gonna risk the danger of being called paranoid here, but who cares:

Do you really believe that there was an actual connection between the OBL announcement and the flashcrash? How would something like this spike this hard, by coincidence in the after hours, and exclusively silver?????

This doesn't seem to add up for me. As i see it, this was not a reaction to insider news... it was coordinated bots doing a sell timed to coincide with the prez announcement. But hey, maybe the problem is just with me, that considering the recent events, i don't buy into very coincidental coincidences.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:45 | 1256847 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Awful big coincidence that they happened at the same time.

And there is no such thing as a coincidence in these markets. Not with the kind of money that was purposefully lost by those sellers. They could have waited until US trading resumed and dumped there, into volume, so they wouldn't have lost money. But they didn't. They dumped it all in some outback wannabe exchange and moved the market with their offer.

It's not so much that one caused the other, as one being an EXCUSE for the selloff in the other, ie it was COVER for the sellers to take an epic dump on the sleeping markets.

I don't see how it could be anything else. It took 4 additional margin increases to "confirm" the down move after the price almost recovered to the high. This reeks of desperation. Of course, they have only doomed themselves by forcing the price so low, as physical was gobbled up exceedingly quickly. They won't be able to source any to deliver to those longs who stand for delivery.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:02 | 1257288 Atlas Shrieked
Atlas Shrieked's picture

tmosley, +1.  The shorts also time their bear raids around unemployment data.  It's just an excuse to cover their trails.  See Andy McGuirre.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:48 | 1256855 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

It was ALL coordinated by the big criminal banks and the Oscama administration.

Don't be fooled into thinking that soaring gold and silver prices is what the gov't wants.  Buying silver and gold is voting against fiat fractional reserve lending policies.  It is these policies that keep the masses enslaved, as forever increasing asset inflation with wages flat make you a payment prisoner for cars, houses, trips, childrens' college, etc....  The banks are smart:  Realtors claim to be selling real estate when in fact all they are is mortgage sellers on behalf of the banks.

These trolls that show up under crafty names claiming to be from Chicago are just JPM trolls trying to influence readers here.  They then go on to say how volatile silver is so we should all stay away.

I challenge anyone here to find a troll comment about silver WITH SPECIFIC REFERENCE TO THE VALUE OF SILVER WHEN TAKING PHYSICAL DELIVERY.  You won't.  All you will find is trading summations about how it fell so quick and how SLV did this or Soros sold his hedged positions, arbed this, covered that... it's all smoke and mirrors.

These trolls are so infantile that they can't even get into a rational conversation about physical delivery, as it trumps every argument they create.

Disclosure:  I bought 1500 oz's today.  Care to comment on that?  Fuck you JPM, Geithner, Benocide, and all your hired pimples.


Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:01 | 1256892 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Forgot to mention:  I also bought a few gold coins the other day from a local coin shop.  I paid cash, and the vendor put the cash through all kinds of counterfeit tests.  I found it interesting:  Is that a trusted medium of exchange?  The fact that it appears anyone can copy these "promisory notes" made me chuckle.  Faith in the system is truly gone.

Faith in our leaders has never been lower.  Faith in the future is under question.

The whole thing is one giant ponzi.



Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:32 | 1257032 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

A whole lot of signature photoshopping going on lately.

Take the time to download these pdfs. It's amazing how fucking bad the forged audit is.

Seems like obamas got a team of amateurs doing everything from audits to birth certificates.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 18:16 | 1257172 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Nice find Hephasteus. They must hate the internet...

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 19:46 | 1257425 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Great work man. 

The pretense of audit.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:36 | 1257041 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

A whole lot of signature photoshopping going on lately.

Take the time to download these pdfs. It's amazing how fucking bad the forged audit is.

Seems like obamas got a team of amateurs doing everything from audits to birth certificates.

LInks to this.

Download a couple of the this this and this and compare it to Audit Certificate.

This guy signs a document like a machine.



Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:39 | 1256807 ursus.peracto
ursus.peracto's picture

It's actually "Tin" to believe manipulation was not the root cause of the Silver "Correction". It doesn't get more obvious.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:48 | 1256849 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

It was manipulation.   But all markets are manipulated.   They always have been, always will be.  

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:47 | 1256841 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

I have to agree that silver got ahead of itself.   I sold into the rally myself, converting silver into gold the way up.    I'm looking to buy again when (if) it goes back into the twenties.

It's not ZH that bothers me.    but some of the folks out there like Max Kieser and the 'Road to Roota' guy.    I'm not sure what their agenda is, but if Max truely was on Wall Street, he cannot REALLY believe folks buying silver is going to bring down JPMorgan.   Misleading people to put their hard-earned money into silver at these high prices under the pretenses they gave is wrong.

The bulion banks are hedged, they have tremedous insights into the marketplace, etc.   They aren't going down because folks are buying one ounce eagles....




Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:57 | 1256879 tmosley
tmosley's picture

They are if twenty million of them buy a one ounce eagle each. This has already happened. That buying is more than the total annual delivery off the COMEX.

For a video representation of how this works, watch this video:

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:05 | 1256910 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture


Mon, 05/09/2011 - 21:57 | 1257747 geekgrrl
geekgrrl's picture

Ah. The distributed attack. Perfect metaphor tmosely.

Methinks the trolls and shills don't understand what they are facing. This is not the Hunt Brothers and some Arab investors; the tide has turned and they are in deep trouble now. They are being eaten alive and our numbers are only multiplying.

We BTFD today, and will continue to BTFD. And we are not alone.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:53 | 1256863 plata pura
plata pura's picture

You all silly and shit; I have documents in my humble trailer telling the future of the precious and gold too. The crust thee dwells upon will only yield just so much; silver superior to it's cousin gold has vast utility and it's highest and best uses are just now becoming known in labs. I be guessing you learn'd; so I'll make easy the sphere of honey bi-product. Mining be farming; farmers mine nutrients so blokes can eat it (and grow) this be wherst them fancy schools fail'd (growth= energy consumption) not prosperity. Now back to the precious; human in time will be able to replace some of the utility of silver in time; they will have to or it gets real ugly real quick; but; the highest and best uses for this most precious element is coming and the demand will be astronomical. Buying physical by trade unit will be akin to stopping a feathery down wind at the royal and ancient club off the face of a skulled niblik at a pen plac'd behind a pot bunker slopping away.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:39 | 1257056 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

These bozo's don't trade futures so this entire article does not apply to most ZH commenters (hence the reason they are still so bold- they don't feel the pain of a margin call). Tyler's a smart dude and he understands the daily leveraging of the credit balance in a commodity account, and the inevitable pain on a 5% rollback. 

These are 2 completely separate sets of people- the cash PM owners are the most vocal, and will continue to be so because they live to play another day even if the market goes down.

PS Tyler didn't write this article, he merely presented it to you. Don't shoot the messenger. And why didn't JPM spike up? Maybe they are hedged, duh.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 20:26 | 1257508 lawrence1
lawrence1's picture

Did you read the article? You talk like a fucking idiot.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:15 | 1256722 It is a bargin ...
Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:21 | 1256737 uranian
uranian's picture

gold is 8€ and 25$ shy of its all time highs. not very effective lately, these guys. silver is up 6% today in euros. muahaha.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:24 | 1256745 Ruffcut
Ruffcut's picture

Fuck, I have digging the back yard looking for that $5 dollar silver. Meth moron, where are you?

But I did find jimmy hoffa.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:29 | 1256762 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Impossible, everyone know's that the SEALs dumped Hoffa off in the ocean.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 17:32 | 1257018 mt paul
mt paul's picture

bunch of 5 $ holes 

all over the back yard ....

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:21 | 1256746 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Interesting guest post on fofoa regarding silver market manipulation. Silverbugs beware, it may offend some viewers.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 23:40 | 1257997 lawrence1
lawrence1's picture

Offend? No, but food for thought,one thought being if there is not some agenda here, however. Am persuaded to hold both gold and silver
but in what balance?
Getting the feeling that "freegold" is becoming a kind of intellectual's religion, with believers taking an attitude of intellectual superiority. Not a goldbug nor silverbug, just trying to survive this fascist kleptocracy.

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:32 | 1256789 Magnix
Magnix's picture

Pay no attention to silver dropping. Its due to the paper silver market. That is a manipulated market. Those who are to survive will not be listening to that crowd.

Buy now physical silver.

This may be the last year to be able to own physical silver.

Paper silver will continue to play until the shorts get crushed. Then the stampede to buy real silver and to own it and hold it in ones hands will commence. At that moment in time you will not find sellers.

Get in now or forget it!

Mon, 05/09/2011 - 16:40 | 1256827 goldm3mb3r
goldm3mb3r's picture

Just received some tubes of Grizzlies - awesome.

God bless you Canada.

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