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Guest Post: Atlas Just Shrugged

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Adrian Douglas of GATA

Adtlas Just Shrugged

On September 15 former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan made a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations. Some very interesting comments he made with respect to gold in response to a question were reported in an editorial in yesterday's New York Sun, "Greenspan's Warning on Gold":

On this occasion Greenspan, who has been famous for gobbledygook that leaves the audience guessing what he meant, did not mince his words. He said, "Fiat money has no place to go but gold."

He further commented that "if all currencies are moving up or down together, the question is: relative to what? Gold is the canary in the coal mine. It signals problems with respect to currency markets. Central banks should pay attention to it."

Greenspan was a close friend of the writer Ayn Rand and he reportedly read drafts of her novel "Atlas Shrugged" before it was published and even had a letter published by The New York Times in November 1957 in response to the newspaper's negative review of the book. In 1966 Greenspan wrote an essay published in Rand's newsletter "The Objectivist" titled "Gold and Economic Freedom":

In that essay Greenspan declared:

"In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. If there were, the government would have to make its holding illegal, as was done in the case of gold. If everyone decided, for example, to convert all his bank deposits to silver or copper or any other good, and thereafter declined to accept checks as payment for goods, bank deposits would lose their purchasing power and government-created bank credit would be worthless as a claim on goods. The financial policy of the welfare state requires that there be no way for the owners of wealth to protect themselves.

"This is the shabby secret of the welfare statists' tirades against gold. Deficit spending is simply a scheme for the confiscation of wealth. Gold stands in the way of this insidious process. It stands as a protector of property rights. If one grasps this, one has no difficulty in understanding the statists' antagonism toward the gold standard."

When one juxtaposes Greenspan's views from 1966 with those of 2010, it is clear that he has a good understanding of the central role gold plays in the monetary system and that unbacked fiat currency is intrinsically worthless. So one would have to conclude that between these two reference points, when Greenspan was Federal Reserve Chairman for 19 years, he knew he was part of an elaborate charade to continue the "shabby secret" of the welfare statists.

In a debate against GATA Chairman Bill Murphy in May 2010, CPM Group executive Jeffrey M. Christian declared that he has advised "most of the central banks in the world" and that "central banks think very little about gold, and those that do think about it and have gold reserves are happy when the gold price goes up.” (See

Perhaps most of the central banks Christian has advised were also successful in keeping this "shabby secret" from him. That is in stark contrast to GATA, which has been shining a light on the dark world of gold for more than 10 years and showing that the organization's officers and consultants are more knowledgeable about the gold market than any of the bought-and-paid-for anti-gold cartel apologists who purport to be experts.

I expect that in the days and years ahead the remark "Fiat money has no place to go but gold" will resound around the world and will be a stake through the heart of the blood-sucking vampire we call central banking. If you weren’t paying attention, you need to know that Atlas just shrugged.
Adrian Douglas is editor of the Market Force Analysis newsletter ( and a member of GATA's Board of Directors.


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Fri, 09/17/2010 - 00:21 | 587167 Dantzler
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Fri, 09/17/2010 - 01:29 | 587223 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture


Adrian Douglas and all the people of GATA, are SAGES.


At least CBC is attempting to educate the Canadian people: unlike the MSM in the USSA.

Meltdown: The Men Who Crashed the World

Naked greed and mafia recklessness by the fascist titans of Wall Street trigged the largest financial crash since the Great Depression.  A virtual "Who's Who" of those to be lynched if there is any justice in the future. All these Sages should be in Cages.



Fri, 09/17/2010 - 01:39 | 587245 macfly
macfly's picture

It won't stream outside Canada, any other sources for this?

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 02:21 | 587262 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture


Must be the US/MSM Nazis blocking foreign (ie. TERRORIST)

propaganda from Canada.

I'll look around. See if there are other links.


Fri, 09/17/2010 - 03:09 | 587291 Grappa
Grappa's picture

Doesn't work.

Can you get this video sent to other outlets? CBC sites don't seem to work outside Canada.


Fri, 09/17/2010 - 06:29 | 587389 VeloSpade
VeloSpade's picture

Found it!  Click this:

Enjoy!  Watching it myself now.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 08:42 | 587527 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

Many thanks VS and DP.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 09:39 | 587637 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

<troll>Carefull, the libertopians on this site don't like this view of unregulated capitalism.  They'll regect this and try to figure out how it is the politicans fault for not deregulating the market enough... or something.</troll>

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 06:38 | 587391 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Bloody shame.  Canada gets the American channels.  We should at least get CBC and CTV. There are a lot of quality shows we miss.  Makes no sense.  And even the CBC has a tradition of mocking their liberal heroes and of waving the Maple Leaf flag.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:47 | 587449 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

sorry, can't happen, CNBS and MSNBC can't afford to lose their viewer.

- Ned

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:59 | 587467 lance_manion
lance_manion's picture

True, but we Canadians cannot stream US content from many American sites either.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 10:48 | 587806 whatsinaname
whatsinaname's picture

Who would you trust regarding gold ? Roubini or Gspan ? Not against gold per se but I'd hate to be front run by former elites when gold has had a multi-year run.

I'd rather get into some downtrodden currencies that yield a lot more..

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 00:25 | 587169 piceridu
piceridu's picture

What happened to that 1957 Greenspan?...sold his soul

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 00:33 | 587180 Jake Lamotta
Jake Lamotta's picture

No, he just got old.....

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 00:56 | 587202 AnonymousAnarchist
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This does a great job of explaining it: Parallel Lives: Liberty or Power?

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 01:54 | 587257 Conrad Murray
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Fuck it.  I'll be damned if Greenspan didn't know what he was doing.  He may go down in history as the enabler of all that is wrong, but I have the unshakable, sneaking suspision that this PoS knew exactly what he was up to.

Alan, on the off chance you read this, and you actually did these things for the reasons I, we, may suppose you did, god bless you.  BUT, if you just want to ride this wave of populist agnst I hope you choke to death on your own spit in your sleep.  If you're a slave to the fascist interests of the US of A, I hope you, and all of your family, die the slowest, most painful death imaginable.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 06:41 | 587392 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Greenspan said he had no problem with fraud on Wall Street.  Smart but no integrity.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 09:13 | 587553 Johnny Dangereaux
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Conrad, I too have been following Bix. I know he is not crazy, and once you read the comic book, you'll see he's definitely on to something. If AG really wanted to do good, he should have suicide bombed the CFR...then I would for sure believe he's a good guy...

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 09:13 | 587554 Johnny Dangereaux
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Save   Preview   DELETE(?)

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:43 | 587444 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

Andrea Mitchell sucked the life out of him.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:48 | 587450 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

married Andrea--and she puts on head scarf for ... ?

- Ned

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 08:35 | 587514 johngaltfla
johngaltfla's picture

His bitch is keeping him in line now.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 00:32 | 587171 NoVolumeMeltup
NoVolumeMeltup's picture

CFR, (are) bitchez.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 00:34 | 587182 MrVincent
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Greenspan: "Fiat money has no place to go but gold."

Article: "The American people, he asserted in his book, have for the most part 'tolerated the inflation bias as an acceptable cost of the modern welfare state.' "


 A politician or high-ranked member of government can only be honest when they are no longer in power. There is a reason so many of us are demanding a limited government.


Fri, 09/17/2010 - 03:25 | 587299 Bananamerican
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"The American people, he asserted in his book, have for the most part 'tolerated the inflation bias as an acceptable cost of the modern welfare state."


wot a fucker....(can i say "fucker" on ZeroHedge?)

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 09:45 | 587650 snowball777
snowball777's picture

How many of you are requesting a limited MIC?

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 00:40 | 587190 sporb
sporb's picture

Perma-Bear, Ultra-Bear.. how about PermaMonkeyMind?

Sheesh. This blog used to be cutting edge, now it's "far corner of the pub".  Just sayin....

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 00:45 | 587195 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

Your comment says more about you than about the blog. Just sayin.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 01:15 | 587220 sporb
sporb's picture

A hit! A palpable hit...

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 01:21 | 587227 sporb
sporb's picture

The perma-crash perma-bull thing has lost it's edge, whether it proves to be accurate or not. Just sayin...

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 04:45 | 587325 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

me, being tired of a completely dysfunctional market (and believe me, i am tired of it), doesn't make it any less dysfunctional.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:48 | 587452 SWRichmond
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We, outside the halls of corrupted power where decisions are made that turn our economy, our markets and, in the process, our lives into little more than shallow shells or ghosts of no substance, rail against the charade of big government, controlled markets, fiat currency-thingies, and the useful idiots that are our "elected officials".  We know what a genuine free market can do, warts and all, for the lives of folks big, medium, and little.  We want our goddamned capital markets back.  We want our goddamned economy unleashed.  We want real money.  We build a case that is devastatingly clear, we convince the fence-sitters, we prepare for the time when we can rebuild.  We know it's coming.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 08:20 | 587494 Virginian
Virginian's picture

God bless ya', SW! That's the goal - restoring the system that we have allowed over the years to atrophy into something that serves only the interests of a very few. The tree of liberty is thirsty....

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 10:31 | 587763 Maniac Researcher
Maniac Researcher's picture

I don't see bringing up Ayn Rand as a huge help in bringing in "fence-sitters." Atlas Shrugged is just as absolutist in its world view as Das Kapital. Sounds more like consolidating your base. I suppose you can always construct a "We" with a few platitudes, but I personally don't see this current conversation as all that productive - other than allowing people to let off steam about the economy.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 13:25 | 588159 SWRichmond
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Then it is no more or less productive than your comment above, yet you chose to make it; why? 

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 21:37 | 589000 Maniac Researcher
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Aww, did I hurt your feelings, Richmond? Because only the most productive comments ever get made on Zero Hedge -- I mean, jeez.. I should probably be ashamed of myself! Perhaps I should just post some poorly photoshopped bikini photos to add legitimacy to the discussion and the website, no?

Did you know that after completing Atlas Shrugged, Ayn Rand went into a deep depression because she realized she could never match the integrity of her fictional character John Galt? True story. Do you also hold the world to an unrealistic standard? ( hoping anyone outside of your embittered community gives a shit about such insipid dogma?)

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 22:44 | 589073 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Hurt feelings, at ZH?  You gotta be shitting me.

Just enjoyed pointing out your own lapse and thought I'd inquire about why you stooped so low.

Sat, 09/18/2010 - 00:18 | 589167 Maniac Researcher
Maniac Researcher's picture

....if by lapse you mean ignoring my critique, then yes.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:22 | 587423 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I don't see you offering us any "edge." 

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 10:05 | 587700 grunion
grunion's picture

That's because SW Richmond can be one hell of a rough neighborhood.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 12:57 | 588094 MsCreant
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I was being a bitch to sporb. The comments can be hard to track.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 00:46 | 587197 enobittep
enobittep's picture

Yes, sold his soul.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 06:50 | 587399 Miss Expectations
Miss Expectations's picture

For what?  Federal Reserve Notes that he could print himself? Circular.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 16:42 | 588537 reave the sheeple
reave the sheeple's picture

To devalue gold, all while scooping it up at firesale prices with freshly printed FRNs?


Gotta pay for your retirement somehow...

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 00:55 | 587201 bigkahuna
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When this run on commodities finally happens, I think it will be fast. I don't know how effective it will be in bringing down fiat though. We all know that through money creation, the fed itself has been securing all manner of assets on it's own balance sheets to include treasuries and through it's proxies (or perhaps directly) stocks. At some point the fed will be able to hold these fiat based assets at a baseline if it so chooses, even in the face of a run. IMO they will then be able to hold the federal government over a barrel-if they are not doing it already. Our dictator is the Federal Reserve Bank. What they want is what they will get. I suspect that this alone is the reason that the whole system has not already come down. Not because of any robustness in our currency or economy. Perhaps the Chinese government is the only entity that could throw it off track sooner--and perhaps the reason they have not is because they know that every second the system runs as it is takes the "world's super power" closer to a truly fatal and non-recoverable destruction-rather than a depression lasting a few years.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 01:13 | 587215 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

It's funny but perhaps the Chinese just don't care.  They don't spend their money on useless wars, they just sit patiently and watch the U.S. overextend itself, use their money for intellectual piracy and counter intelligence instead of empire building and policing the world, and keep producing goods for the rest of the world including now being the largest producer of Au.

If anyone has forgotten, China is much older than the U.S. and most other countries and cultures.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 01:31 | 587239 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

The Chinese don't spend their money on useless wars but waste it on meaningless projects, houses and infrastructure.

Beware of China. It is a huge time bomb. It is Japan in the 1980s times 1000. China is producing its goods at the expense of the environment and social stability. One survey says 90% of the rivers in China are polluted. The Chinese government spends more on securing social security than national defence. That means the Chinese government has to deal with numerous social riots every year!!!

China is a large gold producer but also a net importer as far as I know.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 03:33 | 587300 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

Ya. I don't buy this whole "China will clean our clocks" line....They've had thousands of years to get their shit together and you wanna tell me that ChiComn Kapitalism represents the omphalos of that history?

I'll bet THEY blow FIRST....I'm sensing a low thread count moment in the denim facade of their great leap forward

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 06:45 | 587395 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Agree.  They are still a totalitarian dictatorship.  They don't realize how much this retards their progress.  Internal problems will trump their global ambitions.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:52 | 587457 SWRichmond
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Everything you just said applies to the U.S. almost equally.  CONgress surely doesn't realize how much their meddling retards our progress.  Internal problems are right now in the proicess of trumping our global ambitions.  We are a nearly total dictatorship; wait until the first sign of genuine internal trouble to see what I mean.  "Restore the Constitution" movements are now considered "terrorism."

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 08:56 | 587557 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Good point.  But we actually have the most radical Constitution on the planet.  That we are born with our rights, not owned by the state. The totalitarian socialists are on the run.  Three more elections and we will clean out enough crooks and progressives from Congress to restore Constitutional law, a free market, impartial taxation and honest money.  They may say we're dreaming, but we have a lot of company.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 11:36 | 587931 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>CONgress surely doesn't realize how much their meddling retards

I think you meant "they're".


Fri, 09/17/2010 - 21:35 | 588996 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture



Fri, 09/17/2010 - 10:32 | 587766 Sausagemaker
Sausagemaker's picture

+100 - I've been saying that China blows first for a long time. We'll be F'ed when they do though. Maybe we can pick up some manufacturing equipment on eBay - China.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 10:34 | 587770 Maniac Researcher
Maniac Researcher's picture

What is the your source for the comment, "90% of the rivers in China are polluted?" I'm curious.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 15:12 | 588366 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

There are certainly other conservation causes in China that need attention, but none are as dangerous or widespread as the water pollution in China. 70% of Chinese lakes and rivers are polluted, not to mention 90% of their groundwater (which constitutes most of the “potable” water people use for drinking, cooking, etc.) This pollution means that 320 million Chinese citizens have no clean drinking water.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 21:48 | 589014 Maniac Researcher
Maniac Researcher's picture

No offense to you or, but frankly I'm suspicious of Western sources pointing the finger at China and I question their impartiality and motives. This isn't to say that there isn't terrible pollution in the country and serious regulatory failings - but the consistent subtext, at least to me, reeks of imperial competition, chauvinism, and racism.

Here's an example of the situation I'm attempting to illustrate:

I'm sure this will be taken as a defence of China - which it's not; but it is interesting how quickly and easily the primarily white, privileged crowd likes to blame other groups when it hasn't done very well at cleaning up its own messes historically.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 03:09 | 587275 i-dog
i-dog's picture

The communist Chinese government was financed and brought to power by the oligarchs as the second [failed] attempt to impose a New World Order by demonstrating the wondrous joys of their autocratic socialist plan. You could say that the Chinese communist party "owes one" to the oligarchs.

Since neither the Russians nor the Chinese were clever enough to get this central planning nightmare to work, the oligarchs' last gasp - which is now under way - is to simply impose martial law on the west (particularly the US and UK) in the name of "National Security" and/or "protecting you from those crazy muslims" ... but not before stripping the middle class of any worthwhile assets (including guns and butter and gold) and calling in all debts (mortgage loans, student loans, car loans, credit card loans, etc) with the option of "pay up, or indentured servitude for you, sonny - would you prefer the army or the cotton plantation or debtors prison?". Food stamps and T-bills will not be legal tender for settlement of these debts.

However, I do believe that the Chinese will resist the oligarchs - since they would obviously not be invited to the aristocratic post-apocalypse Ruling Round Table (except as waiters or cooks). I just hope the Chinese know how to operate those nukes when they are needed.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 03:24 | 587298 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

I agree--all debts called. Most people do not even want to entertain that one.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 06:47 | 587396 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Fantasy World.  Or maybe too much BC Bud.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 00:58 | 587203 Tense INDIAN
Tense INDIAN's picture

Today's Laugh Line: "According to government auditors, the stimulus money is being held up because there aren't enough government workers to oversee the spending. So follow me, in other words, government workers who aren't there are needed to spend money we don't have to create jobs that don't exist.' -- Jay Leno

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 01:01 | 587205 OrdellRobbie
OrdellRobbie's picture

The Maestro works for surprise he is talking up gold...I agree though.


Fri, 09/17/2010 - 01:13 | 587216 redpill
redpill's picture

Who's John Galt, bitchez?

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 01:54 | 587256 LowProfile
Fri, 09/17/2010 - 08:17 | 587491 cossack55
cossack55's picture

In that case, can you supply me with the directions to Galt's Gulch?  I know it is somewhere in Colorado.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 02:17 | 587272 tom a taxpayer
tom a taxpayer's picture

2:10am E.S.T. - Gold is now above $1,280.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 02:28 | 587276 Bearster
Bearster's picture

Greenspan took the job that John Galt refused: Economic Dictator.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 02:46 | 587283 Rogerwilco
Rogerwilco's picture

Why does anyone pay attention to statements from Buffett, Soros, and Greenspan? It's not like these old farts have our best interests at heart. They move with a different crowd, one that laughs at our laws, and positively howls with delight at the ease with which they robbed us blind in the last "crisis".

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 15:15 | 588371 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Interesting isn't it?  Greenspan has been a douche in our book for years, but now that he says something that agrees with the ZH consensus he is worth a listen.  Whodathunkit?

If I thought they were smart enough to pull it off I'd say it was a plot to make citizens buy gold...

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 03:24 | 587297 Hillbillyfreak
Hillbillyfreak's picture

I hold Greenspan solely responsible for the economic situation that we currently find ourselves now, as well as conditions we will experience in the comming years.  That anyone would find anything he says (today, yesterday, last week, 40 years ago, or 20 years from now) worthy of serious consideration, I find laughable at best. 

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 09:52 | 587665 Babalooee
Babalooee's picture

If it wasn't Greenspan it would have been someone else. His crime is being human and like the vast majority of us will sell out to the highest bidder.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 04:48 | 587326 Tapeworm
Tapeworm's picture

I recall three separate occasions when EZ Al warned the buyers of FNM/FRE paper that there was no taxcow guarantee of those instruments.

 Where was he when the goomint made them the obligation of the taxcows? (On the front page of every prospectus of any instrument that Fannie or Freddie ever issued is a bold print notice that they are only guaranteed by the issuer and that they are NOT an obligation of the goomint.

 FWIW, I have his bullshit in the original. Do any of you want to buy my complete libraries of The Objectivist Newsletter and The Ayn Rand Newsletter? I also have the Field Dog Stud Book back to 1898. The pointing dog records are worth far more than the bastard neocon effluvia that has no sire other than Lev Davidovich Bronstein, AKA, Trotsky.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 10:25 | 587748 Bearster
Bearster's picture

Aah, the hate comes out...

Can you distinguish between the ideas he abandoned and betrayed vs. the ones he adopted?

Nah, much easier to call Rand's ideas "neocon effluvia".  Btw, I don't think Objectivism and neo-conservativism overlap on any point anywhere.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 05:17 | 587357 Grand Supercycle
Grand Supercycle's picture

The mixed conflicting market signals return. It reminds me of periods in 2007/2008 during the market uncertainty and dislocation in addition to market intervention or rumours of market intervention (like the QE chatter now).

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 06:42 | 587366 bada boom
bada boom's picture

Alan is the Darth Vader of sound money.

What was it, ego, power, greed, jealousy...

If only he wasn't so feeble he could keep pulling all the right levers to this debt machine he helped to create, but sometimes the machine gets too big to control.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 05:50 | 587372 ThroxxOfVron
ThroxxOfVron's picture

I don't trust a damn thing Greenspan says or does; and neither should any of You.

My first thought is: What the hell is the old Bastard up to now?


He and Soros have both been talking way too much about gold of recent and it's making Me very fucking uncomfortable.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 09:50 | 587659 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

He further commented that "if all currencies are moving up or down together, the question is: relative to what? Gold is the canary in the coal mine. It signals problems with respect to currency markets. Central banks should pay attention to it."

The old bastard is trying to lay down thinly veiled clues like it's something he's been recently thinking of or a new understanding to him. That fucker knows how it works.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 10:26 | 587750 grunion
grunion's picture

It seems that people who have overcome substantial adversity in their lives, come away from the experience(s) humbled and with a higher regard for the fundamental rights of all.

The silver spoon population ruling our nation today having never personally faced profound life experiences (Excluding combat vets) are understandably focused only on themselves.

A priviliged lifestyle and an ivy league law degree do not necessarily a good statesman make.

Joe Six-pack could do as well or better than those in office today.

Representation needs to come from the masses and not an elite pool of arrogant snobs.


Fri, 09/17/2010 - 10:46 | 587799 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

"Representation needs to come from the masses and not an elite pool of arrogant snobs."

LOL. Jesus Christ, America is definitely going into the shitter.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 14:59 | 588350 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

+++ i'm with you on this one - somewhere between the two.

take a Jeffersonian view and allow the masses to *prove* their ability to help lead (vote) by proving an understanding of the issues at hand. else it's a 'rule-by-instinct' mess, and the MSM will get whatever they want by telling us what our 'instincts' are this week.

mass (MSM) rule is simply terrifying (have you stood in line at wal/k-mart lately? - and i'm far from being elite...). elite rule is almost as bad (witness any dictatorship, or amerika today).

in fact, in the 'elite' model, the shrewdest or cruelest have to actually *prove* their superiority to get to the trough first. they gotta have some smarts, and they need to keep feeding the sheep that they're constantly fleecing.

vs mass-rule - there's no such underlying rationality/filtration system. and eventually some group eventually bubbles up to lead those masses (a stalin *or* a palin), and they become... elite. (FWIW i like palin's core constitution-related beliefs, but don't think her best place is to rule. and many - not all - of her followers are too dogmatic to be truly critical of her - hero worship - same thing that got obama where he is, and equally scary should the pendulum swing).

everyone should have the *right* to *earn* their vote, but it isn't working where everyone is just given this precious resource without any motivation to actually invest it well with the understanding that there are always trade-offs/consequences to any action.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 06:50 | 587398 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

It IS possible that AG took the job to bring down the system from within.  Although I consider it a low probability event, it is possible.  It's low probability because it requires a degree of intelligence, foresight, and cunning that the Maestro does not have (by all outward appearances).

The simpler explanation for his recent return to the path of morality is "even a blind squirrel occassionally finds a nut."

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 06:57 | 587402 anony
anony's picture

He talked interest rates down for 8 years, made many close friends gazillionaires. Ruined the world economy but, hey, that's how it's done since nothing new was created, the money for the elite had to come from what was available in pension funds, mostly, and other suckers' money.

I do not doubt he is talking up gold now because while it seems toppy, and there is a price out there at which gold will topple like a World Trade center tower in the sights of an insane muslim jet jockey seeking 72 nubile 17 yr old virgins for a toga party.

We would do well to heed his 'wisdom'--- unlike those of us who thought we were prudent, not borrowing money we couldn't pay back, who thought he was nuts allowing interest rates so low that any idiot who could borrow tons of money and churn and burn (and, like his friends, get out at the right time).  

I have not bought any gold since I got burned in the last spike and fall, still hoping for break even on two miners I bought 18 months ago, but now, I'm going with Greenspan.  And will talk up gold to every one I come in contact with, join the Gold Bitchez! and Silver omygod! I just can't believe I sold last week, screwing myself out of $21,840 on two contracts. When I see all those signs to,  "Buy your gold!! Top Dollah!! instead of saying to myself how foolish, I'll remember the last year when I should have doubled down instead of closing the contracts for a loss.

For what it is worth: I have a string of 50 losing trades in a row, albeit for small change, but a savvy trader recognizing a member of that vast global club of those who can see the future but get the timing all wrong, you may want to take the flip side of my trade.  


Fri, 09/17/2010 - 09:02 | 587572 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

"I do not doubt he is talking up gold now because while it seems toppy, and there is a price out there at which gold will topple like a World Trade center tower in the sights of an insane muslim jet jockey seeking 72 nubile 17 yr old virgins for a toga party."


Are you really that dumb?  Or are you just pretending?  Gold and silver have quadrupled since I started buying them ten years ago, what else has done that?  The last major purchase I made was physical silver and palladium at 9 bucks and 180 respectively in fall of 08.  Paper silver is not silver.  Paper gold is not gold.  Futures are for suckers and miners are for fools.  How can you guys not get it?  If you buy futures, ETFs, or miners you are giving the manipulators MORE power not less.  WOW,  YOU FAIL!

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:24 | 587426 Instant Karma
Instant Karma's picture

I wonder if Gold is just short hand for hard assets? Doesn't anything useful or desirable likewise increase in price with money creation? One hint of a shortage of something like Cocoa or wheat or sugar or oil and the price spikes are massive. As just a regular person who does their own shopping I must say prices for goods and services have been creeping up steadily since the 1990s. The only clear price declines have been in electronics, and, just the past few years, housing.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:28 | 587428 Instant Karma
Instant Karma's picture

What clearly seems to be happening is that the cost for goods and services is rising much faster than people's ability to pay for them. That's not reflected in CPI or PPI data, fake as it is. That translates to a declining standard of living.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:34 | 587432 bada boom
bada boom's picture

"That's not reflected in CPI or PPI data"

Nope, that's what hedonics and product subsitution are for.

How's that filet mignon you are eating...

Sorry, meant to say how's that cube steak?

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:55 | 587462 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I wonder if Gold is just short hand for hard assets? Doesn't anything useful or desirable likewise increase in price with money creation? One hint of a shortage of something like Cocoa or wheat or sugar or oil and the price spikes are massive. As just a regular person who does their own shopping I must say prices for goods and services have been creeping up steadily since the 1990s. The only clear price declines have been in electronics, and, just the past few years, housing.

What clearly seems to be happening is that the cost for goods and services is rising much faster than people's ability to pay for them. That's not reflected in CPI or PPI data, fake as it is. That translates to a declining standard of living.

+1; your observations are spot on.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:32 | 587433 Dagny Taggart
Dagny Taggart's picture

Wheat provides food, iron provides structure, gold provides a measure of value. And yes, we do use it for money at the gulch.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:39 | 587439 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

What could replace Fiat- ??

commerce demands a medium of exchange that is recognizable (trusted),  and, also flexible enough to cover most financial transactions from small items to home purchases..

carrying gold to purchase day to day items is not practicable.

So here goes an idea that if implemented would replace fiat ..

A gold / silver backed Debit card.

Plastic is trusted everyware today ,0 and 1's are accepted and trusted..

Just a thought.

Carry the GOLD card ZHers for those big ticket items and the SILVER card for the rest.

I expect this to happen and who ever does it will be the next Billy Gates.


Fri, 09/17/2010 - 08:54 | 587548 Anarchist
Anarchist's picture

Gold is worthless when compared to energy, food, arable land, technology and water. Saudi Arabia does not need it neither does Germany since they have things people need. Individuals need it as a way to store value during bad times but if the bad times go on for too long their gold will be worth less than food and water. the barter system of old is being resurrected by the Chinese. They have cut deals with their trading partners that eliminate the need for dollars.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 08:58 | 587562 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

Good luck with that.  

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 15:24 | 588393 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

There is a solid connection between gold and oil, so I would not let your comment about Saudi Arabia not wanting gold go unchallenged.  They know the oil will not last forever and have been trading oil for gold for a long time.  Why do you think there has been no audit of the "gold" in Ft. Knox:

...coins were struck in Philadelphia by the United States Mint in 1945 and 1947 to satisfy the obligations of the Arabian American Oil Company, or Aramco, which had been set up in Saudi Arabia by four American oil companies. The company was obliged to pay the Saudi Government $3 million a year in oil royalties and its contract specified that the payment be made in gold.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 20:12 | 588861 honestann
honestann's picture

Gold is an excellent "conventional medium of exchange".

However, either side in any transaction has a perfect right to negotiate the terms of the transaction, including what is being exchanged.  If you'd rather receive eggs or copper, write that into your contract.... or just take the gold you receive to the store after you receive it, and buy the eggs, copper, lumber or whatever else you want.

The entire point of "gold" for transactions is, you are exchanging one real, physical good for another real, physical good... and thus cannot be scammed by the infinitude of paper scams that have been concocted by the predators-that-be over the centuries.

Furthermore, your brain has been polluted by the assumption that "someone should get rich for not producing a damn thing", only tricking folks into adopting his stupid brand of scam (yet another paper or plastic or computer-bits substitute for real physical goods).  For the world to EVER recover (and become ethical), all this fraudulant trickery must end.  That's why gold is perfect.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 21:06 | 588951 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture


"However, either side in any transaction has a perfect right to negotiate the terms of the transaction,... "


and securing the transition... well, ...

- Ned

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 22:26 | 589052 honestann
honestann's picture

Sorry, your reply is too cryptic for me to comprehend.

As for "securing the transaction", the whole point of trading real, physical goods (like gold) for real, physical goods (anything else), is that the transaction is inherently "secure" and "secured"... precisely because you receive real value for real value and no third party is needed to "secure" or "certify" or "guarantee" anything.

If I'm missing your point, please be a bit more verbose.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:44 | 587447 Cheyenne
Cheyenne's picture

"Let's not forget that the bankers are the next-door neighbours of the politicians. Most people can see the picture: the bankers grease the politicians' palms, the politicians bail out the bankers with public funds, the bankers pay themselves fat bonuses and loan the money back to the public with interest. It's essentially a crime spree that benefits a social elite at the expense of many millions of victims."

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 09:10 | 587582 Johnny Dangereaux
Johnny Dangereaux's picture

Maybe we'll see some explosive action in The City soon....I am kind of surprised we haven't seen a bank or GS office get hit yet.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:46 | 587448 brian0918
brian0918's picture

This is the same dolt that "conceded" to the failure of his free-market beliefs of yesteryear (which long ago were supplanted with a lust for economic power). Too bad we haven't had anything resembling a free market in the financial sector, much the result of his very actions.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:53 | 587458 Thunder Dome
Thunder Dome's picture

How an Ayn Rand confidant can turn into what Greenspan became is truly despicable.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 07:58 | 587464 docj
docj's picture

I'm assuming Greenspan is gravely ill (and isn't telling anyone - not that I blame him for that) and this is more-or-less his "deathbed conversion" or some such.  Either that or he's finally unable to continue to live with himself for the scam he perpetrated on us for nearly 2-decades and feels free to clear his badly soiled conscience.

Either way, I don't think it's necesarily wise to discount these statements lightly as the ruminations and ramblings of a senile old coot.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 08:37 | 587521 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. 25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. 26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?


Matthew 16
King James Version

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 08:50 | 587533 DarkAgeAhead
DarkAgeAhead's picture

Age can enfeeble, and either draw out one's more direct and honest perspective (not enough energy left to preserve the charade or enough free time to reflect and realize one's mistakes), or just lunancy and babble as the mind softens.

Greenspan always babbled, any mal-adapted religion, such as economics, the chosen few can say or do almost anything and be worshipped.


Fri, 09/17/2010 - 08:58 | 587561 Anarchist
Anarchist's picture

Scum always think of their legacy when they know they are on their way out. He thinks that by spouting this crap will make up for 50 years of corruption and lies.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 11:17 | 587884 DarkAgeAhead
DarkAgeAhead's picture

Excellent point. 

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 20:04 | 588849 honestann
honestann's picture

Whatever you infer from his statement, remember to factor in who he delivered that statement to... the CFR.

If anything, he's giving warning to the predators-that-be that they should convert their bogus paper into gold before the lines get too long.

Any theory that Greenspan retains ANY ethics or concern for ethics, justice, honesty, liberty or individualism is pure delusion.  He is a massive follower and opportunist, sucking off the fame of AynRand and later the international gangster-banksters he worked for at the FederalReserve.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 08:52 | 587549 orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture

such a great book...however I really liked The Fountainhead more!!!


long Howard Roark!!

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 11:00 | 587836 Political Athiest
Political Athiest's picture

Word! The FH is my favorite Rand book as well. That said, she must be rolling over in her grave and vomiting every time that traitorous scumbag sell out Greenspan opens his mouth. More Ellsworth Toohey than Howard Roark.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 09:13 | 587585 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Thanks all, will be watching that this weekend. I just take the ups and downs in gold, silver in stride, and when the cab drivers in NY all own gold, then I will sell. Only 1 of my investor and trader friends has any gold. On my trading blog 0.

Long way to go with the usual dumps and pumps. Hang in there. Nothing has changed in the race to the bottom. Who is first and who will be last.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 10:04 | 587695 Crispy
Crispy's picture

Did he just ring the bell for us?

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 19:34 | 588806 honestann
honestann's picture

You mean, as in "begin the race"?  As in the race towards higher gold and silver prices?

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 11:27 | 587853 DTCC 1999
DTCC 1999's picture

"I expect that in the days and years ahead the remark "Fiat money has no place to go but gold" will resound around the world and will be a stake through the heart of the blood-sucking vampire we call central banking."

This could be the very catalyst FOR gradual adoption of a global fiat currency according to the IMF paper on "Reserve Accumulation and International Monetary Stability": 

"Caveats and pre-conditions. Absent significant monetary instability or an injunction for use of bancor for the making of an important set of payments (e.g. payment of taxes), surmounting the barriers to wide acceptance would be a key and perhaps prohibitive challenge." (page 27)

Could mandatory global carbon taxes be that set of payments?

The IMF paper is only 35 pages long and there is a graph on page 4 that shows short/mid/long term goals (end game is global currency) :

Some interesting passages:

"...members do, under the Articles of Agreement, have an obligation to collaborate with the Fund and with each other on their international reserves policies, with the objectives of promoting better surveillance of international liquidity and making the special drawing right the principal reserve asset in the IMF."(page 3

"...a more acute trade-off between domestic priorities and international monetary stability is conceivable—there is no clear market-driven process that would bring about a more robust system. Thus, it is worth exploring whether different arrangements could underpin a more robust system for the long-term."(p.13) 


"...would allow the international monetary system to be less tied to the circumstances of any individual economy...

To the extent that currency is a natural monopoly, they could also serve as “focal points” to which scale economies might propel the system." (p.20)

IMO a world currency would result in even greater legislative influence than the private share holders of the Fed have in the US - if that's possible - but on a global scale.

However they make a point that:

"Sustained government deficits may eventually bring public debt sustainability into question, undermining the store of value characteristic of reserve assets.  These concerns could escalate to the point of creating conditions for a rapid switch out of a specific reserve asset, with large and disruptive exchange rate and wealth effects, disruption to the smooth functioning of international payments and possibly implications for financial stability". (p.10)

Theoretically, could a non-interest baring global currency, where the inflation for each separate country is determined by their GDP be effective?

Also, James Dines points out that the Bank of International Settlements (i.e.BIS: the central bank of central banks) has immunity from jurisdiction and arrest, inviolability (untouchable) of all paper and documents (not audited) and nobody knows who owns it.  


Sun, 09/19/2010 - 05:13 | 588841 honestann
honestann's picture

Posts like yours make me wonder.  How many of you have made desicions like I have (some follow):

#1: Under no circumstances will I pay for health insurance once it is mandatory (though almost surely I won't even be in the USSA by then).

#2: Under no circumstances will I accept or spend any "world currency" --- unless that "world currency" is real, physical gold measured in grams (not some name like "dollar", "amero", "peso", "yen" they can jigger).  Personally, I actually favor a one world currency... as long as that is "grams of physical gold" (no freaking receipts or certificates).

#3: Under no circumstances will I allow the predators to find or confiscate any gold, silver or other savings, or admit I have any.

#4: Under no circumstances will I collect or pay even one cent for "carbon/CO2 taxes", or any similar scam.

#5: Under no circumstances will I accept or follow any UN or corporate rules or mandates.

I will not break these decisions, no way, no how.  Frankly, I've taken many other steps already, like always keeping 95% of my savings in physical gold, silver, platinum and physically productive equipment.  After 3 years of trying, I can now get 96% of everything I want and need in exchange for gold rather than fiat paper.

I will also never forget what is real, and what is fiction, and right at the top of the fiction list is "government", which, giggle-giggle, is even recognized as being a fiction in fundamental law, along with all organizations, which are all called "fictitious entities".

Who else has drawn lines in the sand?  And what are your lines?

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 11:49 | 587949 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

World currency is the goal.  The GLD discussion at the CFR, etc is relevant because publicly there needs to be an injection of a "safe haven" relative to the all the other "failed currencies."  Since the Bancor-XDR-WCU, or whatever it might be is framed as a basket of defunct currencies and surging commodities, the elites must show "a promised land" to sail toward.  The only thing standing in the way is the CNY and all those transplanted US, Japanese, Taiwanese and German machines and graduating engineers running them.  The nervous imperial spine of the Chinese dragon is inflation.  For the delusional elites like crybaby polk-gai Geithner, all the WTO-G20 whining will not subvert China's economy.  For that you must be patient and spend 100 years breaking China into feudal states again.   All those Western privileged elites and their central banks are up against a 4,600+ year old civilization.  A nation that "discovered" America in 1421 and said; "So what."

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 12:53 | 588081 ertyqway
ertyqway's picture

Here's a conspiracy theory for you:

I still maintain that Greenspan (an original member of Ayn Rand's inner circle and staunch gold money advocate) pulled a "Francisco D'Anconia" and made an inside run at intentionally wrecking the entire fiat-money maturity transformation system that maintains the welfare state. His switch from Rand Acolyte to Tool of the Man was just too dramatic and convenient (you really ought to read his essays printed in Rand's "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal" and compare them to his statements during his confirmation testimony and as's like invasion of the body snatchers). Now that his work is nearly done, he's reverting to his true persona.

Call it: Rand's Revenge.

Question: If Rand was playing at being John Galt, and Greenspan got the role of D'Anconia, who is on tap to be Ragnar Danneskjold?

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 13:53 | 588212 Vinz Klortho
Vinz Klortho's picture

This makes sense to me too.

If you are a Randian and want to return the monetary system to a gold standard, it's not like you can just turn a switch and get it done (ignoring the possibility of benevolent dictatorship for now).

If you want to get the gold standard back, you have to seed the current system with cancer first, so that it metastasizes and destroys the organism from within.

Once things are thoroughly rotted out, a small push (like subprime mortgages) is enough to topple the whole thing over.

AG may have been a lot smarter, patient, determined, and single minded than we think.


Fri, 09/17/2010 - 14:38 | 588312 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

so the theory being he's saying something like "yeah, yah, that's what i meant the whole time" ?

heh... i would love to agree, but i'm a skeptic.

i think he was behaving like the jackals when he was empowered (owned) by the jackals... (when in rome...)

the man took a risk (with our economy) and is clearly aware of how badly it went.

nothing left to do but sweep up the tracks and espouse something else.

it's a lot like any one of us 'feeling' like commodities are gonna go up, or APPL is gonna crash, but not acting our conscience, then, after they actually do, saying "dam i knew APPL was gonna crash" to all of our friends...

i think he thought QE v000.0001beta was actually gonna work without any notable side-effects (just a little heroin, it can't hurt much...)


Fri, 09/17/2010 - 15:51 | 588442 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Let's assume you are correct.  Then trashing your country, impoverishing your neighbors, and threatening national security still makes him a traitor, or, at the least a miserable human being.  The ends in this case do not justify the means.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 16:44 | 588542 ertyqway
ertyqway's picture

I'm trying to understand him, not defend him. He's clearly not stupid, yet the conventional criticism of his tenure at the Fed is predicated on his stupidity.

In a sense, you're right about the treason, but look at this way: either he was a traitor to his country, which was supported and operating on a set of principles and actions which he had denounced on deeply held principle, or he was a traitor to those beliefs. The latter is certainly possible, but so is the former.

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 21:39 | 589002 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

He either sold out the U. S. on purpose, or he did it unintentionally. What's the difference.  The result was the same, eh?  You are right except that there is no understanding him.  I'd love for a posthumous autobiography to emerge that tells secrets and names some names.  I'd buy that book!

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 19:22 | 588786 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Oh, never mind, it was just:

"Adtlas Just Shrugged"

Adtlas was Atlas's younger brother; like not the real thing.


- Ned

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