Guest Post: Bankrupt Nations Try To Stop The Future From Happening, Fail

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Sat, 05/28/2011 - 15:58 | 1319650 Joe Sixpack
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Crash JP Morgan (and the IMF), Buy Silver!

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 16:43 | 1319717 Shell Game
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Excellent article on the silver playing field and on the possibility the silver market has been cornered again:

There is only anecdotal evidence that JPM has actual silver short positions. Furthermore, it is information JPM themselves have divulged.  Are we to assume they are being honest and are not trying to mislead the public?  If JPM is lying about their shorts, are they trying to drive the public into silver and away from the real safe-haven of gold?  Caveat emptor, folks.  Don't forget to hedge this possibility with a good portion of physical gold..


Sat, 05/28/2011 - 17:28 | 1319758 Shell Game
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Ah yes, my itchy-bearded, OT friend. Up to your usual ways of parasitizing the top of the comments I see..  ;-)

Edit:  spot on re: Bubble Univesity

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 21:49 | 1320114 TruthInSunshine
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Prepare for game over for global economy (not because it's a U.N. Report or because it's being widely reported by Reuters, AP and every other major wire service, but because the velocity is there on a psychological level).

For anyone thinking the woes of the U.S. and Eurozone will be net accretive to the economic prosperity of the BRIC nations or any others, think again, too.

We're entering a global black hole:

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 22:27 | 1320166 cosmictrainwreck
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holy shit! we really are in trouble if even the fuckin' UN can see it. Ben, yer petticoats are showin'

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 23:03 | 1320189 nmewn
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Whaaa?...wait a minute...

"As a result, further (expected) losses of the >>>book value<<< of the vast foreign reserve holdings could trigger a crisis of confidence in the reserve currency, which would put the entire global financial system at risk," it said."

does this mean that something of value, that is attempted to be paid off with something of no value, is not an acceptable medium of exchange?


Sun, 05/29/2011 - 00:31 | 1320238 tiger7905
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Don Coxe Basic Point May 2011 touches on why gold is definitely not a barbaric relic.

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 19:15 | 1319928 Fiat2Zero
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Fairly long and rambling article with some good points.

However, it's easy to get lost in the world of hocus pocus.

Gold and silver are money in most of the world, and have been since people have found them. In the developing countries this is second nature. High inflation is driving these populations reflexively into PMs as it has historically. Paper currency always goes to zero, historically, as we are witnessing a world wide race to the bottom.

Most people on ZH probably own both gold and silver.

Silver will trade at 10:1 GS ratio when the music stops, by 2015 (my wild guess).

Worrying too much about the near term manipulation will give you conniption fits. Organic investment demand is driving price action.

If you want a wild ride with higher profits - buy silver, the devils metal, if you can stomach the volatility.

Buy and hold as much physical as you can, because paper money will not repair itself (without gold and silver)

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 20:50 | 1320056 Shell Game
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Most people on ZH probably own both gold and silver.

A lot more new faces all the time, I wouldn't bet on that.  Also, the 'Crash JPM' army are zealots with a good cause for sure, but that kind of fanatisicm could be played upon.

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 09:53 | 1320431 Use of Weapons
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Could? There is no could about it.

If you believed something different, you wouldn't be sitting where you're sitting

Infamous Chomsky - Marr interview. Marr later went on to become the #1 political pundit for the BBC, which just goes to show.

Whilst we can suggest that Max Keiser genuinely believes what he says, RT (or rather, the real owners of) is using him, and by proxy, his mainstay US audience as political edge against Washington. Silver bugs should be aware of the politics being used, even if it is to agree with it. But don't think that it isn't really one set of TPTB vrs another. I'd also dig into a few of the more autre Fiat sites for their seeds as well... But that's tin foil hat territory.


Tin foil territory: Max is sponsored by Hugo Boss, you work it out.

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 13:36 | 1320735 Fiat2Zero
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Yes but believing that _all_ or even most silverbugs are fond of Max Keiser is a bit preposterous.

Many think he is a useful idiot.

If you are blindly following anyone, it'll probably end blindly.

However, just because the motives of Max Keiser may be impure, doesn't change the overall story for the investment demand of silver.

Follow the facts, ignore the dog and pony show.

Again, for _most_ of the world for _most_ of it's human history, gold and silver are/were money. The paper games being played out will eventually be futile. Don't get lost in the mirror world.

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 15:44 | 1320962 Chuck Walla
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I have wondered about the use of the current mania against us. It requires a devious and sinister mind to pull it off, but there seems to be no shortage there.  Soros is very capable of it for one.

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 20:39 | 1321506 Xavier Doe
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Please elaborate.  Your comment is meaningless as it stands.

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 22:53 | 1321715 Temporalist
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It seems that RT wants any alarmist anti-US pundits on.  It's just an angle.  Max has on many reputable guests and he does not put words in their mouths.  Also he and Stacy report on mainstream media news so they are pointing out and highlighting what are to them major stories but are avoided or disregarded by the masses.

Hillary Clinton herself mentioned that foreign news sources such as RT and Al Jazeera are supplanting US outlets.  I don't think she meant it to be complimentary but rather a warning that the US propaganda machine needs to dial it up a few notches.

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 22:11 | 1320146 Manthong
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Yuan (yin) means silver in Chinese.

The Chinese characters (yin hang) for bank translate into "silver house".

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 22:49 | 1320180 Quixotic_Not
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¿Tienes puta plata?

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 23:12 | 1320197 Manthong
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Yo soy hijo de puta plata.

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 00:17 | 1320233 Manthong
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Also, the acronym for U.S. dollar is FRN.

That is Bernankese for “Fraudulent Rectal Napkin”.

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 21:40 | 1320106 asymptote
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Indeed. I have noticed that all of the documents that indicate 'who has the short' indicate that one of two HSBC or JPM holds  90% of the toal of the two, but we are never able to get he exact numbers on who it is. There is an equal statistical probability that HSBC is the massive short. 

In fact when I watch the COMEX movements vi Harvey's daily blog I se continued net outflows from HSBC, and inflows to JPM's new vault. There is a real possibility that HSBC is the holder of the short, and potentilly could be covering a problem in the LBMA. Also not that he LMBA stopped reporting a few years ago. We have no idea of what is going on over there now. I once suggested, that what we 'could' be seeing is JPM move away from HSBC? 

Perhaps a possibility.

One other thought I had after spending a few days reading over those two gian comment lists at the costata thread is that you can take two positions:

1) Gold and olny gold can be used to 'back' a currency as it allows a unilateral balance of trade transfer method.

2) If silver is also included, then realistically -anything- in the commodity space that has a few years of longevity can back a currency. This would eb a mess to administer. Peru backed by Silver, Vietnam backed by roughrice, Australia backed by Steel or Coal or Gold(from ore). 

To me, #2, while far messier to trade each others backing is probably more robust. A pure floating gold standard is likely to be subject to manipulation of a degree far greater than backing by 20 different commodities. Just look at Ft Knox. 


I'm hedged both ways, with a slight preference to gold. But even if FOFOA gets his fabled Reference Point Gold standard, in my heart I know it'll still be rife with scandal, fraud and manipulation. The system we have today didn't -make- the evil we see, sure it gave a good framework for abusive fraud. The biggest probelm we have today is the lack of will to exercise the laws we have to punish financial crimes. No system we can invent will stop the type of people we have today from attempting it again. The best we can hope for is to minimise the theft. 


Sun, 05/29/2011 - 00:45 | 1320252 Fiat2Zero
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C'mon, JPM owns SLV, HSBC owns GLD. There's a lot of irrelevant info compared to these gargantuan facts.

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 10:25 | 1320502 downwiththebanks
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And they own the CRIMEX, too, right?  Or is it the CME that JMP owns?

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 13:34 | 1320739 Fiat2Zero
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JPM has seats on the board of CME.  So yes, they are the ones doing the hikes.

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 06:05 | 1320357 The_Euro_Sucks
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It is possible that the flow of silver is cornered. It is quite obvious that the flow of gold is cornered for decades if not longer. Its obvious that the above ground supply of silver is not cornered. It is not hard to realise that the above ground supply of gold is cornered. I do agree one needs to hold both metals in physical form. 

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 12:24 | 1320472 ToNYC
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Great news! When they finally corner all the Gold, they can box it up or bury it and build a moat. Later on, they can sell it to churches to cover themselves as if there was anything more to spirit than to worship the Sun (Aton), the source of all life...and respecting the rights of others. Precious metal believers need to keep passing kindergarten final exams each year of their education.


Sat, 05/28/2011 - 16:50 | 1319723 Jasper M
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And how's that workin' out fer ya?

JPMorgan will crash on its own, and the IMF is a broken reed, no need/point in buying more physical Ag. I will keep selling my silver into any strength. 


I like most of this article, but I notice the author seems to (fashionably) reserve his economic skepticism for the West – as if China's current rise (itself a function of Western debt) was somehow assured continuity into that same future he discusses. 

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 20:23 | 1320026 legal eagle
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You make a great point. It is a stand alone point though. I agree that China has purposefully pagged the Reminbi low against the dollar b/c they saw it was making them rich and us poor. This is true above and beyond the debt they acquired. They have bankrupted the US like we bankrupted the USSR.

We will soon see if they have gotten beyond the Mutually Assured Destruction phase by hedging against their US Treasuries.

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 21:54 | 1320121 asymptote
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I wrote a long email to a friend on Friday about this very point. Specificaly on why Australia has done so well has nothing specifically to do with us being a 'great nation'. Australia is, like the chinese addicted to US monetary expansion. The chinese peg forces them to build things to soak up the inflation the peg created. To build things, the closest pile of dirt is Australia that gives them the resources needed to do so. The situation is unstable, as it relies on continued US debt growth and trade with China keeping the peg where it is as well as the AUD not rising so far it prices out commodities out of the market

Note the Baltic Dry Index and how Australia beat out Chile as being a major supplier in 2008 and you see a recipe for the next economy to reverse in to stagflation with it's commisurate real estate pop... and boy will this be a painful one. The sheep here feel invulnerable. All it take is the continued rise of the AUD, which is assured, or China breaking the peg, which it could well do on Qe3. 

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 19:24 | 1319943 max2205
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The new female IMF chief: "she walka like a girl but she talka like a man...Lola"

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 19:25 | 1319947 max2205
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The new female IMF chief: "she walka like a girl but she talka like a man...Lola"

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 19:26 | 1319949 max2205
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The new female IMF chief: "she walka like a girl but she talka like a man...Lola"

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 19:24 | 1319954 max2205
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The new female IMF chief: "she walka like a girl but she talka like a man...Lola"

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 23:18 | 1320200 TempFlashback
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Is the fifth time going to be the charm? Stay tuned...

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 02:07 | 1320291 Hook Line and S...
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A charm? It might be as long as Lola keeps her pants on.

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 06:50 | 1320374 theMAXILOPEZpsycho
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Do the illuminati accept chicks these days??

Secondly, there are many cases of female rapists...I hear they often spike drinks with a mixture of zanex and viagra...

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 16:02 | 1319653 IdioTsincracY
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Debt is slavery .... right on!!!

Parents are indebted because of the great Real Estate ponzi scheme ...

the children are indebted because of College Loan scheme...

entire Countries and indebted because of the Natural Economics growth paradigm ...

Who the fuck is gaining from all of this???

Where is all the money going? .... follow the trail of the reverse-trickle-down flow ....

It's the fucking Oligarchy!!!

Everyone's got debt ... they're swimming in wealth extracted at the detriment of entire Nations ....

Do we need a new System? ... you bet .... but for that to happen we need to fuck them all!!!!

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 18:05 | 1319846 Freewheelin Franklin
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Our entire monetary system is based on debt.

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 19:11 | 1319926 Cursive
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Yes, and I for one would prefer a return of the true "Greenback" issued by our very own UST, not the FRB.

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 19:49 | 1319986 Libertarian777
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Not sure why there seems to be such a backing behind 'Lincoln's greenback'.


With the Fed monetising US Treasry issued debt currently, the US dollar printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing is effectively that issued by the US Treasury.

Since most people already agree monetising debt is a bad thing, why would allowing the US Treasury to flat out print debt currency be any better? It would completely remove the minor roadblock they have with the FRB.

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 21:40 | 1320107 robertocarlos
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It's interest free "money".

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 22:04 | 1320135 asymptote
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Australia's RBA was given independency from politics a few decades ago. Whilst I won't suggest it's a good model, as I detest Fractional Reserve lending on principal, it is probably an exmaple of the best of the worst. You will do better than you curently do, on that system, but you still have two problems as I see it:

1) If your government is allowed to issue bonds, it'll be fiscally imprudent and you will end up with high taxes. My highest tax band here is 47%, plus GST(Like vat), fuel excise, etc. I loose more han half of my wage to my governments desire to spend my money for me. The Private\Public central bank won't help you.

2) The environment the country exists in is a stabliser. If every other country in the world decides to dilute their currencies, then be ready to watch you economy get crushed as the exports continually have to lower costs to remain competitive externally. Sure, BHP can sell steel at market rates, but the business denominated in the local currency will suffer as it needs to operate within the realm of the stringer currency (as in paying wages). Remember, wages go up easily, and down with a lot of pain and cost (retrench, then rehire lower paid workers). 


The only soluton I see is a global reset, the people who will do it will be the ones who will benefit the most from the new system. 

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 06:26 | 1320366 BigDuke6
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'Global reset'  ... like the rapture?

Its got its fans.

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 22:03 | 1320138 Cursive
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With the Fed monetising US Treasry issued debt currently, the US dollar printed by the Bureau of Engraving and Printing is effectively that issued by the US Treasury.

Your analysis ignores the that the FRN is debt-backed money and productive capacity is drained from our economy by the rentiers (banksters).

Since most people already agree monetising debt is a bad thing, why would allowing the US Treasury to flat out print debt currency be any better?

Again, the return to the Greenback has abolutely nothing to do with debt.  That is what makes it great.  So, it a.) would not be monetising debt or b.) debt-based money/currency.

It would completely remove the minor roadblock they have with the FRB.

The FRN seems to have been something less than a very small pothole rather than a minor roadblock.  Also, perhaps if the FRB were removed, most Americans would have a more straight foward understanding of government finance.  The level of complexity added by the banksters via the Creature from Jekyll Island has obfuscated the problem for most Americans.

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 02:40 | 1320311 Libertarian777
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all the articles i've read concerning the 'Greenback' still don't 'jive' with me.

I'm more for a 'competitive' market based money system (i.e. people individually decide what they wish to transact in; maybe facebook credits become the de facto standard).

A greenback would still be fiat (defined as legal tender) by the government.

What stops the US treasury from just issuing infinite streams of greenbacks? To fund the budget?

If we say well they are accepted by the US government as payment for tax debt, then it still basing the note on the 'faith' of the US Treasury (to tax US citizens).

Or if a greenback is not a US Treasury issued IOU, what then is it? What stops the Treasury from just printing infinite greenbacks? If it is just a 'note', unbacked by debt, then why would I accept it? I wouldn't. Except by 'fiat' (mandate). I would sooner accept someone's coat check ticket, as I could give that in for a coat, whereas a greenback I could exchange for... nothing.


I thought the sole role of the government was to certify the weight and fineness of the coins issued (i.e. a silver coin contains exactly x number of oz of .999 silver; gold coin is 22kt etc), and NOT to issue 'money'. (You should be able to take your raw gold/silver to the US Treasury and for a small fee, have them coin it into certified weights). That is the only 'faith' you'd need in the government (that they measured correctly).

Will Treasury issued greenbacks be certified to be of a certain linen vintage?

I understand that having a Treasury issued greenback will skip the middleman banker who gets zero % FRB funding to loan out to main street at 5%, but still don't see how it is NOT fiat.

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 03:19 | 1320319 WakeyWakey
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If the Greenback is introduced again, it's success depends on the level of debt with which it starts again. If it is sustainable, say 30% of GDP, and strict rules that it can never go higher than 40% of GDP then there should be no reason why it shouldn't work. 

It is still backed by debt, only it is interest free debt so no payments to the banksters and they get to re-use all their tax reciepts.

Which brings us to the next thing. The G20 governments should outlaw offshore tax havens. It is the filthy stinking rich who avoid paying taxes, leaving that little inconvenience to the poor and is the sole reason why Greece is in the situation it is in, but adds massively to the debt of all nations.

Ofcourse it will take a revolution to bring all this about as it is the filthy stinking rich who are running things in their own interest at the moment. Until they are replaced, nothing will ever change.

Sun, 05/29/2011 - 09:31 | 1320452 Cursive
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but still don't see how it is NOT fiat.

Total agreement and that is the main point of the greenback.  It is pure fiat.  You could do worse than fiat and that is to print debt-based money like the FRN.  I agree with your main points and I would favor a dual or multiple money system as a means of keeping each system honest.  Let consumers decide which currency is the best.

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 20:17 | 1320022 nmewn
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Its time to turn the tables over.

The crux of the matter is simply this, the Federal Reserve Bank is holding a lot of debt (bonds) that the taxpayer cannot and will not ever pay back.

Which is an odd circumstance for them when you think about it because they have never had any taxing authority to collect the debt owed.


That is held by the consent of the people through their elected representatives.

What will we do? ;-)

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 21:32 | 1320095 Greenhead
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You have to remember that the Fed gives the Treasury most of its profits.  Interest on T's has to be paid by taxpayers, which is funneled to the Fed as they now hold the notes.  It is then funneled back to the Treasury dept and spent on this and that.  The big interest due bill is a slick way to demand higher taxes from the productive class.  "Look, look, we have this compounding mountain of interest due, we need more revenues... Guess we need higher taxes, etc."

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 22:24 | 1320159 nmewn
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"You have to remember that the Fed gives the Treasury most of its profits.  Interest on T's has to be paid by taxpayers, which is funneled to the Fed as they now hold the notes."


Not being a Princeton economist, I would have to say its going to be awful hard to make any payments on compounding debt obligations (rolling over to even zero interest) with the fact that wage earners comprise only half of the total population of this country. as a whole, and still half of them are exempted from any tax obligation whatsoever due to tax credits or some other form of tax avoidance to the Treasury.

Its a ledger entry in my estimation, nothing more.

Hell, if I could wave a magic wand and make fiat appear from nowhere all my problems would be solved as well ;-)

Sat, 05/28/2011 - 23:02 | 1320183 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture


In 1933 FDR pulled off a currency revaluation that screwed everyone, but the FED.

What if O-Blah-blah annouces, oh say Feb. 2013, that 'MeriKa is gonna have a banking holiday, and the U$D is repudiated as a failed currency scheme?

What is $15 trillion when refactored @ 1/100?

Of course, the FED will find a way to dump the counterfeit paper before then, but to whom?

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