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Guest Post: Clash On Israel-Lebanon Border Holds Potential For Strategic Escalation
Submitted by Yossef Bodansky for www.oilprice.com
Clash on Israel-Lebanon Border Holds Potential for Strategic Escalation
The August 3, 2010, armed clash along the Israeli-Lebanese border was a significant strategic incident.
On Thursday, July 29, 2010, Israel notified UNIFIL that a few Israeli soldiers would be crossing the security fence in order to cut a tree and remove a few shrubs in Israeli territory but near the Blue Line (the actual border between Israel and Lebanon). This foliage blocks the view of Israeli security cameras positioned deep inside Israel. Israel also notified UNIFIL that these soldiers would be escorted by a small patrol which would stay south of the security fence.
The Israeli notification was in accordance with UNSC resolution 1701. UNIFIL then informed the nearby positions of the Lebanese Armed Forces about the planned Israeli activities in order to ensure that there was no misunderstanding. The Lebanese Army notified the local HizbAllah force.
Significantly, the Lebanese Army unit deployed along the border with Israel is the 9th Division, whose commanders and troops are Shi’ites and recruited from the same manpower pool as the HizbAllah.
Around 10:30am on August 3, 2010, about 10 Israeli soldiers with saws crossed the gate in the security fence on foot. This detachment was covered by an Israeli patrol which included a few tanks, armored vehicles, and a command vehicle. As UNIFIL had been informed, the patrol stayed 200-300 meters south of the fence.
When the soldiers approached the tree, they were attacked by small arms automatic fire from both the Lebanese Army’s position just across the border and “civilians” (HizbAllah fighters) in the nearby village of Adissyeh.
Immediately, a few Israeli commanders ran from the command vehicle toward the fence to see what was happening. Snipers hiding in the bush adjacent to the Lebanese Army position fired on them, killing the Israeli battalion commander (a lieutenant-colonel) and critically wounding the company commander (a captain). The sniper fire came from a professional ambush that had been organized on the basis of the advance warning provided by UNIFIL.
Meanwhile, the shooting at the Israeli soldiers north of the fence intensified. Israeli forces opened small-arms and mortar fire on the sources of fire in the Lebanese Army position and in a couple of unfinished houses in Adissyeh. Two Israeli tanks and an armored personnel carrier moved forward toward the fence in order to evacuate the stranded soldiers. At this point a UNIFIL patrol arrived on the scene and the UN officers urged both sides to ceasefire. The firing stopped a few minutes later.
Escorted by the UN patrol, the two Israeli tanks and the armored personnel carrier continued to advance toward the gate in the fence in order to evacuate the soldiers. Suddenly an anti-tank missile was fired from either the Lebanese Army position or the bush immediately near it. The missile barely missed the UNIFIL vehicle and the tanks. The Israeli tanks opened fire on the missile launcher.
Major activity followed. Intense fire — small arms, heavy machineguns, mortars, and RPGs — was opened from both several Lebanese Army positions as well as HizbAllah positions in Adissyeh. Israel rushed additional tanks and artillery to the area and started bombarding all Lebanese positions. One or two Katyusha rockets were launched toward Israel, impacted in open space and caused no damage.
A pair of Israeli combat helicopters arrived on the scene. They attacked the main Lebanese Army position near Adissyeh, and subsequently the Lebanese Army battalion headquarters in the village of Al-Taybeh. The helicopters also attacked and destroyed several Lebanese Army armored vehicles which were parked near the headquarters. Three Lebanese soldiers and a journalist (from the pro-HizbAllah newspaper Al-Akhbar) who was with the troops in Al-Taybeh were killed. Another soldier was killed in the position near Adissyeh. A total of five to six soldiers were wounded. There is no reliable information about HizbAllah casualties.
The fire subsided after little over two and a half hours.
This was a very serious incident for two reasons:
1. The incident started as a pre-planned pre-meditated provocation against the Israeli patrol on the basis of information provided via UNIFIL. The mere invitation by the Army of the Al-Akhbar correspondent to cover the clash suggests that this was a pre-planned incident. The incident was conducted jointly by Lebanese Army forces and HizbAllah forces, proving that the close cooperation which HizbAllah leader Hassan Nasrallah had boasted about repeatedly is indeed working (at least with the Army’s Shi’ite units such as the 9th Division).
2. Earlier, on Monday, August 2, 2010, HizbAllah and Iranian media warned that the Israeli cabinet had considered “the prospects of an upcoming war on the Lebanese, Syrian and Gaza fronts in anticipation of tensions on the Lebanese domestic scene” because of the impending indictment of senior HizbAllah officials by the Special Tribunal for Lebanon (STL). The HizbAllah, Syria, and Iran are calling on all Lebanese to ignore the STL and instead rally and close ranks behind the “Resistance” in order to confront the Israeli threat. Under these circumstances, the incident on the Israeli-Lebanese border should be considered a made-to-order “proof” of the HizbAllah and Iranian warnings.
Indeed, Lebanese President Michel Suleiman denounced the fighting and urged the Army and all Lebanese to “stand up to Israel’s violation of Resolution 1701, whatever the price”. According to the Syrian Arab News Agency, Syrian Pres. Bashar al-Assad stated that the “Israeli attack proves once again that Israel is constantly working to destabilize security in Lebanon and the region. Syria stresses that it is standing by its sister Lebanon in the face of the criminal Israeli aggression and calls on the UN to condemn and stop this aggression.”
However, the main event in the aftermath of the clash is an anticipated major speech by Hassan Nasrallah. The speech was scheduled for 20:30 on August 3, 2010 (Lebanon time), but its exact time was being constantly changed. Senior HizbAllah officials predict that Nasrallah’s speech “will mark a turning point” for Lebanon and the entire Middle East. They explained that Nasrallah would “focus on the national and Islamic dimension of the July [2006] war” and its implications for the current situation in the entire region. Nasrallah’s speech, the Senior HizbAllah officials stress, “will mainly be devoted to talk about the meaning of victory against Israel” in both past wars and in the historic confrontation still to come.
Given the above, the August 2, 2010, rocket firing from southern Sinai of Aqaba, Eilat, and a base of the US-led Multinational Force & Observers Organization in Sinai might also be part of this kind of made-to-order “proof” of Israeli aggression. Significantly, the six 122mm GRAD rockets fired from Sinai were made in Iran or North Korea, strongly suggesting that the perpetrators were Iran-sponsored main group rather than a Palestinian fringe entity.
Source: http://oilprice.com/Geo-Politics/Middle-East/Clash-on-Israel-Lebanon-Border-Holds-Potential-for-Strategic-Escalation.html
by Yossef Bodansky for OilPrice.com who offer detailed analysis on Oil, alternative Energy, Commodities, Finance and Geopolitics. They also provide free Geopolitical intelligence to help investors gain a greater understanding of world events and the impact they have on certain regions and sectors. Visit: http://www.oilprice.com
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Uh oh! Israeli puff piece.
Let the flamethrowers ignite.
Tyler, how about the view from the other side of the hedge?
Edit: Looking at a 20 junk toss today. I guess that counts for something!
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
Some people don't understand the word "strategic", especially when used in a military context. One-of incidents aren't "strategic".
Tort, every strategy is composed of many tactics.
Tactical blunders can balloon into strategic errors very quickly.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
After notifying authorities, Israel cuts down a tree. Several Israeli's are attacked and killed. Some puff piece. If your family members were killed in such a manner, would it be a puff piece?
Assembler, the incident occurred. No doubt and always terrible.
But the slant and source/author clearly have presented the Israeli side of the story, hinging on a UN resolution, that bastion of fairness.
That was what I meant to say.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
Blunder? Why not ask UN to cut the tree? Or better yet blow it up.
Gee if you Predatored that tree and shrubs then there would not have been the opportunity for the Hamas ( who runs that outfit ?ABC?) to create a shitstorm story to inflame the "Zone" once again.
Which makes the point of "Operation Knights of Ni," wherein Israeli commandos were seen headed over the border with a herring, exactly what?
Hegel strikes! Problem Reaction Solution.
Knock knock!
My mother in law was watching al Jazeera TV as the events were unfolding, she claims it reported that Israel asked UN for permission to cut the trees, the UN said 'ask Lebanon for permission, its on their side of the fence'
Israel went to cut the trees down anyway
small wonder they were then attacked
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2010/08/20108310240207599.html
this supports the claim of which territory it was on - Lebanon's. Even the puff peice above admits that the trees were north of the fence line
for balance though, I've heard that Israel built the fence inside its territory a few hundred metres where strategically appropriate (high ground or whatever?). Which might have merit, but remember that the Gaza and West bank fences never concede an inch of israel territory and in places were built inside palesitinain land
I love how every western mouthpeice are desperately trying to tie Hezbollah into it without a shred of evidence.
Trying to do so misses the significance of this story - the Lebanese army have sat by and done virtually nothing last few times Israel has made incursions
They obviously now feel emboldened enough to take on the job themselves instead of leaving it to their Hezb. proxies
I was in Beirut at the time, and that was my understanding of how it went down. I beleive the Israelis were trying to provoke Hizbollah into retaliation, so that they would have grounds to escalate the situation. My understanding is that they did not participate and that the Lebanese Army were the respondants to the Israeli incursion.
There's a very important political backstory that you left out Tyler. There is word in Lebanon, which is spreading fast -- that Hezbo (Mustafa Bader al din) was responsible for the assassination of PM Hariri.
Currently, there's a coalition government in power with Hariri's son AND Hezbo'Allah.
This spells complete and utter chaos if the rumors are true. Lebanon needs a foreign enemy badly right now -- it's the only thing that will keep the government from falling to pieces.
http://beirut2bayside.blogspot.com/
Updated DOW daily chart:
http://stockmarket618.wordpress.com
hmmm, looking at the expanded picture:
Iran/Israel currently in a pissing match
Isreal making noises about attacking Iran
2 rockets just "happened" to miss Israeli city by 6 miles (who in their right mind shoots a rocket at the farthest city from their location in egypt when choosing a target?)
letter sent to obama about emminent attack
Lebanon militarists attack Israel
I am a little skeptical, but it could all be legit as well. If Israel goes off on a tangent and starts blaming Iran for the incident, then this was at the very least instigated by Israel. If they just go after Lebanon (ie, there is a sudden spike in the number of suicides in Lebanon) then Iran is the main guilty party. My personal opinion is that Iran had at least a small part in this, but not necessarily the government of Iran.
If someone pulled up in bucket truck next to your property, reached the arm over your fence and started cutting down your trees, wouldn't you get a little pissed off?
Yeah, it's just a dispute over landscaping. You ass.
"cut a tree and remove a few shrubs in Israeli territory but near the Blue Line"
Can you read? "In Israeli territory"
Can you read? - The Government of Lebanon disagrees that the tree was in what we're calling israel.
Link please.
Another military provocation by zionist gangsters.
Could you imagine that that Israeli terrorists have nothing to do besides doing some landscaping in Lebanon? Some one must be a complete fool or one working for the American mass media controlled by "friends of Israel" to believe into this shit.
As soon as Lebanese will get meaningful antiaircraft missiles to defend themselves, the "invincible" Israeli army will be in a deep POS.
As a side note, the same goes for Afghanistan. As soon as Taliban gets antiaircraft missiles from Pakistan, China or Iran, it will become a really bloody war for Americans up there. But, please do not worry, our Nobel Peace prize President does not care much for America anyhow.
Another silly post by racist pinheads.
If this was a planned attack by Israel it went badly. Maybe they shouldn't have announced it ahead of time? Or do you think they planned to get shot?
Jew-tard.
Like I said in the other Israeli article to much overzealous AIPAC flagging:
Hamas Terrorists = Mossad in Turbans
Shooting up the landscaping for false flag Kabuki theater... enough said.
Let the AIPAC HFJ -- High Frequency Junking begin:
Rahm-tard commands it!
Interesting timeline of the event. Sounds like it wasn't very "minor".
As always, we get almost all of our military news from that region basically straight from the IDF. By law, the Israeli press doesn't have freedom of speech in security matters, so they report what they are told.
Makes it difficult to know what to make of these stories. Militaries reflexively report themselves in a very favorable light, even in the U.S., where there is potential to be caught in a lie by the media (e.g. Pat Tillman.)
These details may be essentially true, or they could be mostly fabricated. How do we know?
It's the same problem with Iran. Are they really building a bomb? Has John Q. Reporter from Time magazine been to Iran? If he has, does he know what a bomb program looks like? Is he a nuclear scientist? Does he even have a military background?
Then why is John Q. Reporter saying that Iran is building a bomb? Because the Pentagon, the CIA, and Mossad tell him so. Straight from them, to the pages of your media. Think about it.
Unjunk.
The UN's nuclear watchdog has never found a skerrick of uranium enriched above about 18% in Iran despite the most frequent and numerous inspections of any country in the history of the UN
To make a bomb you need at least, what? 90% enrichment.
el Beredei - the UN's ex chief inspector, was muzzled while in the job, but as soon as he got out of the job he publically declared his view that no evidence he had sighted proves Iranian weaponisation intentions
John Q. Reporter is not saying that Iran is building a bomb. The United States government is not saying that Iran is building a bomb. Both say correctly that Iran is enriching uranium. Both express concern that Iran is enriching uranium for other than peaceful purposes. But neither is claiming that Iran is building a bomb because they know the uranium is not enriched to the level required for a bomb.
What is being said is that a number of governments do not want Iran to have the ability to make a bomb. That statement is different from claiming that Iran is currently making a bomb. The question is not whether to stop Iran from making a bomb. The question is whether to take away Iran's ability to make a bomb should the decide they want to make one.
Are you suggesting that a 'number of gov'ts' should preemptively condemn Iran as guilty of producing a nuclear weapon before the fact? Interesting. Then the those same 'number of gov'ts' should immediately use any means available to disarm the US of its nuclear arsenal, as that country has already deployed nuclear weapons on civilian populations, twice.
Regards
Are you suggesting that a 'number of gov'ts' should preemptively condemn Iran as guilty of producing a nuclear weapon before the fact?
If you read my post, then you know that I said nothing of the sort that your question implies. I said the exact opposite. Nobody is condemning Iran for making the bomb. They are struggling with the question of whether they want to take away Iran's ability to make a bomb. I made that distinction quite clearly in my post.
The governments to which I referred are concerned that Iran may use nuclear weapons on them or their friends or both. None of these same governments are concerned that the United States will use its nuclear weapons on them or their friends or both.
"If you read my post, then you know that I said nothing of the sort that your question implies. I said the exact opposite. Nobody is condemning Iran for making the bomb. They are struggling with the question of whether they want to take away Iran's ability to make a bomb. I made that distinction quite clearly in my post."
Which, rather than being the exact opposite as you claim, would be in fact exactly,
"...suggesting that a 'number of gov'ts' should preemptively condemn Iran as guilty of producing a nuclear weapon before the fact..."
(emphasis mine, as your glazzies seem to be failing)
As to,
"None of these same governments are concerned that the United States will use its nuclear weapons on them or their friends or both."
Well. They certainly should be concerned. As I have pointed out the US is the only nation on the planet that has had the perversity to use nuclear weapons before, twice. On civilian populations. To my knowledge Iran has never done such a thing to any other nation; are you beginning to see how this 'guilt' thing works?
errrmmm, perhaps I need to completely spell it out for you: you can't be guilty of a crime you haven't committed yet, and so punishment for the possibility of someone committing a crime is unjust. If you have already committed horrendous cowardly acts twice however...
Regards
The governments to which I referred are concerned that Iran may use nuclear weapons on them or their friends or both.
I need not be guilty of a crime before someone takes action against me. All I need do is make someone afraid (not a crime) and they will take action to mitigate that fear. That is a very simple concept that is applied in many ways in life. A most obvious example of the application of that concept in the United States is the restraining order. You fear I may harm you. You present the court with reasonable evidence that supports your belief that I intend to harm you, and you are granted the restraining order. No crime committed, yet I have legal action taken against me.
Same concept applies to Iran. You say that punishment for the possibility of someone committing a crime is unjust. I ask, by whose standards is it unjust? That is certainly not the standard of those nations who have voted for sanctions against Iran. And it is not the standard of those nations currently examining the notion of crippling or destroying Iran's ability to make nuclear weapons.
'What is being said is that a number of governments do not want Iran to have the ability to make a bomb.'
Are you insinuating that the MSM in the U.S. is making this point PERFECTLY CLEAR? What you are saying is true, but it's insulting to think MSM propaganda adhere to the stone cold facts and there is no embellishing and/or omission of facts!
How absurd..
Too right. Ive read COUNTLESS articles where individuals within US/Isreal/UK governments are not just concerned with Iran's ability to make a bomb, but explicitly declare their belief that a completed iranian bomb is anywhere from 1 to 7 years away, depending on the hawkishness of the commentator. Its also mouthed without MSM challenge, pretty much, that Iranian leadership is for some (islamophobic) reason suicidal enough to actually use their nukes without any provocation. They are painted as kamikaze suicidally insane on a weekly basis in the MSM
And that, then, is the burden of being a leader of any of the nations grappling with the question of what to do about Iran. They must make the choice of whether we should wait for Iran to prove they are kamikaze suicidally insane or to prove that they are not. I can live with the results of Iran proving the are not ksi. I'm not sure I can live with the results of Iran proving that they indeed are ksi. I think the leaders' thought processes are following a similar path in trying to decide which is the wisest course of action.
grappling with the question of what to do about Iran.
Richard - you are so full of yourself. What about the grappling with the question of what to do about Israel? It is much more important for the American people to get out from under the Israeli yoke, than it is to worry about Iran who has;
- not invaded or attacked any other country in hundreds of years.
- is only our "enemy" through association with you.
There may be a need to grapple with the question of what to do about Israel. But this particular string of comments was riffing off of chet's claim that John Q. Reporter says that Iran is building a bomb. So - subject is Iran in these comments here, not Israel.
Enough with the cocktease already.........
JUST GET IT ON!
Irrelevant.
We send Israel how billions of dollars a year in heavy armament and they send men with chainsaws to cut a tree down? A few 155MM artillery shells surely could of rocked that tree down - you know, good target practice and all that. Let's see, an Archduke gets capped and all hell breaks loose about 100 years ago, so what's a tree going to spiral out of control into? It's regrettable that men died in this episode, it will be infinitely more regrettable if it wildly escalates...
I still don't expect much to come out of things with Israel. It has been the same story over the past 60 years. I don't see this as an actionable story in terms of trading the markets.
Dam that bush.
Every time there is some trouble theres a bush involved.
LOL. THAT WAS FUNNY
Puff piece or not, it's clear that this was a planned ambush
1. Reporters from Hezb newspaper were present (1 killed, 1 wounded)
Why were they dispatched from Beirut? What did they expect to report?
2. Sniper took out Israeli commander. Shot 300m away, in the head, jsut as he was leaving a protected area
The posts here and elsewhere yet again try to paint this as Israel's fault when it is clearly yet another uninstigated attack on Israel. Recall that Hezb did the exact same thing a few years - attacked an Israeli patrol, completely unprovoked.
The incident is an attempt to distract from the report that proves Hezb killed Hariri. This is not the surprise. The real surprise is that, for the first time, a UN report will not blame Israel. Apparently the Arab efforts to stack the UN deck have failed this time.
'The real surprise is that, for the first time, a UN report will not blame Israel.'
Yeah... imagine that... Not very consistent is it?.. Psy ops.. Israel wants war.. Plain and simple..
Poor Israel, getting picked on by all her arab neighbors that need a war to stay in power.. Give me a break.. Good god in heaven.. Who buys this shit?
As I've asked another poster, care to clarify the reasons and benefits from war?
... clarify the reasons and benefits from war?
Obsessions with Iranian oil, Gulf oil and mid-east territory in general - lebensraum is the term Adolph used. Any more questions?
And how exactly do you reconcile the withdrawal from Gaza and the West Bank (partial or not), as well as the withdrawal from Sinai peninsula in exchange for peace, with your assertion regarding territorial desire?
Also, did you bring Adolph into the picture just to get the Nazi spin, or was there another purpose?
Finally, do you claim that Israel is obsessed with Iranian and Mid East oil?
Do you foresee Israel Occupying Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia to mine it for oil?
Last to first
Finally, do you claim that Israel is obsessed with Iranian and Mid East oil?
Of course - http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/ED04Ak01.html
Do you foresee Israel Occupying Iran, Iraq, and Saudi Arabia to mine it for oil?
Using threats, aggression and inducements, like payoffs from the US Taxpayer to said regimes, I foresee Isreal working to get compliant stooges running nearby countries, like they've been able to do in Egypt and Jordan.
I used to be in awe that you had the chutzpa to engage in many of the tactics that you rightly condemned Adolph for. Things like collective punishment, summary execution, indiscriminate killing of civilians are examples. Taking other peoples land because God gave it to you was his lebensraum argument. You appear to have adopted this approach as well.
You didn't withdraw from Gaza. Just ask the people on the Marvi Marmara. What you essentially did was reposition your prison guards on the largest concentration camp the world as ever seen. ... But, but, but ... I know you are a victim. Are you a victim?
And you didn't withdraw from Gaza in exchange for peace or anything. You did not negotiate any sort of hand over as one would do if engaged in pursuing peace. You just did a tactical retrenchment.
See above re. the Sinai. You have it under wraps with a compliant vassal state holding it for you. We make it all happen with US tax payer dollars.
Here's a question for you. If there's no more US tax payer dollars, what are you going to do?
Keep the game going as long as possible?
So, some vague claim 7 years ago regarding some pipeline is supposed to be proof that the jews are "reshaping" the middle east?
Also, from what I can find out, gasoline price in Israel is around $6.50/gal compared to $3/gal in the USA, so seems like the puppet master isn't getting much of a benefit.
I always find it remarkable when people make rather clueless statements, while attampting to draw lines between anything the Nazis did and Israel. "Genocide", they usually cry, yet it must be the most poorly implemented genocide ever, since the population keeps on growing.
As for any "prison" claims, you take the easy route, avoiding all historical context, and ignoring of how the situation evolved since 1967. Keeping people in refugee camps for 17 years by Jordan and Egypt, while supporting terror organizations from their controlled areas obviously played a role, yet I doubt you will acknowledge that.
I don't think my tax dollars should support a corrupt regime in Egypt.
I will be fine, as I think Israel will also adjust. However, what is striking, is the fact that you remove other players from the picture, such as the military industrial complex here, which I'm sure is more than happy for subsidies aimed towards purchases of their gear. Alas, maybe they are also just pawn in the grand game.
By the way, I enjoyed your use of the pronoun "you" throughout your response. Your attempt to brand me was quite entertaining.
So, some vague claim 7 years ago regarding some pipeline is supposed to be proof that the jews are "reshaping" the middle east?
You specificly asked about oil, so I gave you a link on oil. You you want to talk about Jews "reshaping" the middle east ... read PNAC. Google it in case you never heard of it.
And 'you' is the appropriate pronoun. Accept your personal culpability.
Ah, yes, I specifically asked, after you were being intentionally vague. However, your response proved even better: a second hand report of an article that apparently put quite a spin about some idea that crossed some minister's head, an idea that still, ironically, remains a pipe dream.
I even went to find the original article instead of the spin job at the Asia Times, and matters seem far less insidious: http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/infrastructure-minister-paritz...
However, details typically don't work for those who wish to believe in conspiracies, and they do what they can to effect causality where non exists (e.g. The Iraq invasion was obviously to have a pipe running oil to Israel).
As for PNAC, there are many people out there with many opinions and objectives. Does that prove anything? Hardly, otherwise one could draw some pretty grand conclusions about the state of the world by examining the KKK in the USA. (read: make up stuff)
I'm no more culpable than you are, unless you believe you're some sort of saint.
You asked for evidence of Israeli designs on Iraq oil. I provided that evidence. The fact that the project has not come to fruition only means that things are not going well for you. You dismiss it as vague. Seems prety clear to me. Israel wants to build a pipeline from Iraq to Haifa. Are you denying this?
As far as culpability goes, - Yes, by your actions, your are culpable for the crimes committed with your approval, encouragement and on your behalf. By comparison, No, I am not culpable. Is that clear?
F@ck genocidal, NAZI Isr@el!!!
This is your response to an attack against Israeli soldiers instigated from within Lebanon. Israel gets attacked, so fuck Israel?
"Immediately, a few Israeli commanders ran from the command vehicle toward the fence to see what was happening."
one would think that the Israeli commanders should have been trained to run AWAY from the gunfire, or at least take cover.
It is disgusting to see Zero Hedge regurgitating pro-Israeli propaganda. Here is a far more objective source:
http://www.thenational.ae/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100805/FOREIGN/70...
It seems to address a number of accusations. For one it would seem UNIFIL was informed of the planned activity, but called Israel to hold off on it and Lebanon explicitly rejected Israel's planned action, though another report said they only asked for 24 hours notice. Yet, Israel went ahead over all objections. The fact the Lebanese army and reporters were there is hardly meaningful since it stands to reason the Lebanese army would be there and by extension the chances are that someone from the news learns of what was going on.
This comes off to me a lot like what happened before the Six Day War. Israel constantly sought to provoke Syria until they would respond, Israel would then "retaliate" heavily against "unprovoked aggression" and as a result of this escalation Syria and its allies built up their forces, which Israel used to justify a "pre-emptive" war. In reality the war was provoked by Israel with the full intent of improving its strategic dominance.
Instead of buying into the pro-Israeli conspiracy theories we should all consider that Israel thinks it has to more gain through war at this point than peace.
Out of curiosity, what's to gain?
I'm really curious to see you also quantifying, to some extent, the cost versus that gain, e.g. disruption to the economy, potential civilian damage, cost of military operations, etc...
Like I just said ... Obsessions with Iranian oil, Gulf oil and mid-east territory in general - lebensraum is the term Adolph used. Any more questions?
I'm awaiting for your clarification to these sound bites in the original post:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-clash-israel-lebanon-border-...
EDIT: please also try to respond fully to the question I originally posted, especially given that it was not direct to you.
Mission Accomplished. See above.
Hardly, as I'm still waiting for those figures I asked for, and, given the nature of the conflict we're talking about in this story -- Southern Lebanon -- you can hardly use the typical claim that the USA will be the puppet doing the work.
Any action on that front means direct activity by the Israeli army, with a very likely involvement by the Syrian army. I state this only because you claim Israel is pining for war.
So, please show me the cost vs. benefits analysis here and not some hollow assertions regarding bloodthirst and Nazi-like desire to expand.
Please have your next post present a logical argument, as it will be refreshing.
speaking of nazis, who was on their side during ww2?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkRkCp3Jr5M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpqemuwsV24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbP2EyF8d34
I think someone is bound to point out the contact one of the more radical jewish groups had with the Nazis early on as potential means to get the British out (I'm assuming before they knew what the Nazis were up to), it is more interesting to point out the Nazi like indoctrination that Hezbollah is conducting, e.g.:
http://www.debbieschlussel.com/2202/another-picture-that-speaks-1000-wor...
This is yet another reason many people choose to ignore while insisting that a return to the 1967 borders will somehow magically resolve all problems.
if you go a little deeper into the history you start to discover that the founders of the palestinean movement were strong admirers of hitler and this has carried on to the present day. the whole kill the jew thing was a common bond they shared. after ww2 the us took a lot of nazis on board for their scientific research and through them the us got infected with its anti communism mentality that continues to this day. ideology, it really blinds people.
But I did not know about the early zionists getting the nazi party to help them boot the british before hitler's rise. Thanks for that tip. What I did know was that Hitler got his ideas about auschwitz from the mufti of jeruselam. in fact, some people claim the mufti is the ones who diagramed the plans as the original drawings were found in the wall of his apartment in germany.
Get your own figures. Talk about logical argument!?! I think you have your posters confused.
BTW, your synchophant laosuwan - you're known by the company you keep.
For someone full of assertions, you're really not "Bringin It" when it comes to information to back them up.
Next time you jump into a thread to answer for someone else, please be more prepared.
Are you for real? What Israel has to gain is power. Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria, and Iran are all threats to Israel's power in the region and it wants to eliminate those threats. For that it would be more than willing to sacrifice innocent civilians and create a temporary disruption to its economy.
Not even close.
The Israeli forces were warned off with fire in the air. They responded with rocket fire killing several troops and a reporter. The Israeli commanders were supervising this from an observation post. The sniper had already targeted the command post as a matter of course. The unprovoked rocket attack was enough for that trigger to get pulled.
Why do you think the Israelis are being so constrained? They know what happened.
Exactly.. Israel attacks without provication on numorous occasions.. No reason to believe this bullshit..
The Israeli Armed Forces must be the most expensive landscaping unit in the Mid-East.
What good exactly was the UN here? Without them the tree would have been cut and the soldiers withdrawn before anybody could respond. Instead we have both sides bringing forces to face each other.
the same thing happens in gaza where the hamas uses ambulances with UN insignia to transport its fighters. it the ambulance is hit, they are "civilians" if it is not hit they are hamas.
Phoney, lovely lao girl - What other pearls from your lucid imagination will you favor us with today??
Question -
Even if one has irrefutable evidence to demonstrate that Hamas agents are inside a UN ambulance, so long as that ambulance is driving around inside Gaza and not in Isreal , by what right (or feasible wisdom) does Isreal torpedo said ambulance?
more likely scenario: wounded hamas agent inside UN ambulance who are upholding their OBLIGATION to tend to any and all wounded. Isreal doesnt care about the UN ambos or their assets (expensive ambulance) and bombs it anyway. What dogs. With those kinda tactics Isreal deserves not a skerrick of UN support
Are you willing to accept that as the standard by which the UN offers support to or witholds support from all parties involved?
but its ok to fire a misslile from an ambulance?
In your dreams wack-job. Which is it today? Are you the lao woman who can't speak lao or the hebrew guy who likes lao woman?
speaking of whack jobs, I asked you politely twice to stop trolling my posts. whoever you are, please kindly stop being a cyber bully and dont reply to my posts. They are not directed to you. Thank you.
You are a shameless fraud. Stop posting.
lots of blame to go around but you may be right they dont deserve any support. doesnt look like they are getting much, anyway. this situation in the middle east has been going on since the end of ww1 and thankfully, so far, it has remained local. I just worry about the fallout in the future, and i mean fallout.
i dont think anybody really knows what happened except for the people who were there, so speculating is pointless. However, it does seem odd that they would have a newspaper reporter called in specifically at that day and time. anyway, its unfortunate that people had to die over a tree. its also unfortunate that once again eveyone misses the deeper implication of the nature of the war against israel:
>>> Senior HizbAllah officials predict that Nasrallah’s speech “will mark a turning point” for Lebanon and the entire Middle East. They explained that Nasrallah would “focus on the national and Islamic dimension of the July [2006] war” and its implications for the current situation in the entire region. Nasrallah’s speech, the Senior HizbAllah officials stress, “will mainly be devoted to talk about the meaning of victory against Israel” in both past wars and in the historic confrontation still to come.
LS - aka - Fake-lying-tool - Here's a news flash for you. Reporters go to the border all the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9YJiE7nyGA
Hmmm...
http://www.debka.com/article/8949/
I follow Debkafiles with interest. They are almost never right and when they are they get the whole context wrong. I used to think it was Jewish astro turf but they are way too dumb.
Hence the junk.
Serious question: Do you think the explosion didn't happen?
More Hmmm
http://www.debka.com/article/8940/
Honestly, this is is really depressing/disappointing for me. TD, you have been spot on, on so many facets of our deranged economy. But you seem to be just as bad if not worse than George Washinton on impossible theories about the BP spill, when it comes to Israel. This is not a criticizm. I honestly just dont understand it. This horribly fallacious article is exactly what I am referring to. I dont see what there is to gain by posting an article with outlandish accusations that which can be easily and completely debunked
... horribly fallacious article ... outlandish accusations ... can be easily and completely debunked.
Doesn't that group of claims do exactly what you are criticizing TD and GW for doing? Where is your support for your claims? Seriously. Some of us come here to learn. How can we learn unless you point us to what you accept as the truth?
From the Lebanese Government:
http://www.ansamed.info/en/news/ME.XAM13310.html
The Lebanese government has confirmed that the Israeli army did not commit a violation in yesterday's incident. Information Minister Tareq Mitri said in a press conference that the uprooting of a tree by Israel, which was interrupted yesterday and completed this morning, ''took place on the southern side of the Blue Line''.
Or is Tareq Mitri a Mossad plant for some of you?
Perhaps. And i really mean perhaps (like, not a passive agressive negation)
But you have to wonder about translation in this day and age. Like that time Amadinijan (a total prick, no doubt) said we may soon see the time when the Isreali government is removed from the pages of history, and every western press decided to translate it as 'wipe Isreal from the map'
not a dissimilar concept, but the aggression inherent in the western interpretation is a far cry from the neutral observation in the original statement
If Amadinijan wishes his neutral observation would come true, is it still a neutral observation? I think you are being cute with your interpretation of his remarks as being neutral.
fair call, Amadin is certainly not neutral.
But the original quote does not imply that IRAN will be the cause of israeli government being removed from the page of history, (and so the quote could be interpreted as benignly as suggesting israel govt willcollapse internally) whereas the western media misquote has always attributed that falsity of agressive intent, and that's a very dangerous and unhelpful game to play
And I get your larger point, as I have read the document referenced widely on the net that explains what Amadinijan actually said versus what the West reports that he said.
For me, the seriousness of it all hinges on how serious Amadin actually is about wanting to be the one to bring about the return of the Twelfth Imam. Since I haven't talked personally with Amadin, I don't know how seriously to take these reports. I think that is also the quandry faced by the several nations trying to figure out the best course of action re. Iran.
Three tidbits from the AP:
1. Information Minister Tarek Mitri said Lebanon respects the border but still contests part of it, insisting that the fateful cypress tree, while on the Israeli side of the border, "is Lebanese territory."
2. Hezbollah stayed on the sidelines.
3. In recent weeks Israel's military has charged that Hezbollah has 40,000 rockets aimed at Israel, including Scud rockets that could hit Israel's main population centers. The conventional wisdom in Israel is that another war with Hezbollah is inevitable.
Personally I commend ZH for taking geopolitical events seriously, and even for their generally provocative sourcing. Why not? After all, truth is stranger than fiction, and all the slaps in the face we get here are good training for reality. On the story posted here, it seems like it was a Lebanese Army action, not militia, so the details are incorrect, but in the end the dynamic between increasing internal political tension inside Lebanon, combined with Israel's well-founded worry about the stockpile of ordinance aimed at them, does present a very real danger of near term war. So the gist of it is correct. And for advance warning of this, you have ZH to thank.
As for whose fault it is: ha ha very funny. Everyone in the Mideast by now understands that technology erases distance. Cairo to Tehran is shorter than Detroit to NY. Having spent 100 years fucking up Middle Eastern society for dreams of oil and empire, the Once Great Powers now reap the harvest of tears they have so diligently sown. Middle class society, always the harbinger of peace, has been ripped up to support corrupt militarized elites in every state. This is blood on everyone's hands. The apple farmer who waves across the border at the Lebanese military...the market stall owner in Baghdad...the truck driver in Aleppo...and their families...that is the ember of peace. All the elites should work to deescalate, stabilize, and strengthen the resources of ordinary people.
Maybe that would even be good for Apple, GE, and Citigroup.
There are certainly a lot of details like that to take into consideration.I read and understand the entire article and I really enjoyed it to be honest.
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