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Guest Post: The Covert Origins of the Af-Pak War - The Road to World War III

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Submitted by David DeGraw

This report is an excerpt from David DeGraw’s new book, “The Road Through 2012: Revolution or World War III.” It is a continuation from the previous section, “Inside the Global Banking Intelligence Complex, BCCI Operations.” This is the fourth installment to a new series. To be notified via email of new postings from this series, subscribe here.

The Covert Origins of the Af-Pak War - The Road to World War III

Now that we have an understanding of how the Global Banking Intelligence Complex
ran operations through BCCI, let’s look at how some of BCCI’s key
players kept operating after the bank was finally shut down. As
discussed in the last chapter,
during the 1980s and early ’90s, the CIA worked in partnership with
BCCI in what was, at the time, the agency’s largest covert operation
ever, pumping an estimated $10 billion
into funding the Afghan Mujahideen. Through this operation, Osama bin
Laden’s al Qaeda network was formed. Bin Laden had accounts in BCCI and
ran CIA/BCCI-funded camps.

In “ Modern Jihad:Tracing the Dollars Behind the Terror Networks,” investigative reporter Loretta Napoleoni described the origins of the al Qaeda network:

“[During the Afghan-Soviet war,] potential Arab warriors
traveled to Pakistan where they resided in guesthouses. These hostels
did not keep any records and not a single organization listed the names
of the fighters, where they had gone to fight and if they had been
injured or killed. The lack of vital information caused distress among
relatives. At that time bin Laden was in charge of several guesthouses
and was embarrassed by the hundreds of calls requesting information.
Hence, he decided to keep track of whoever stayed at the hostels and
that record came to be known as the Record of al-Qaeda. This is how
al-Qaeda, which means the base or the scroll, was born.”

Throughout this time period, bin Laden’s mentor was a man named Gulbuddin Hekmatyar. In “Afghanistan 1979-1992: America’s Jihad,” William Blum reported some background information on Hekmatyar:

“His followers first gained attention by throwing acid in
the faces of women who refused to wear the veil. CIA and State
Department officials I have spoken with call him ’scary,’ ‘vicious,’ ‘a
fascist,’… ‘definite dictatorship material’…. His name was Gulbuddin
Hekmatyar. He was the head of the Islamic Party and he hated the United
States almost as much as he hated the Russians. His followers screamed
‘Death to America’ along with ‘Death to the Soviet Union’… some of them
had kidnapped the American ambassador in the capital city of Kabul,
leading to his death in the rescue attempt… these same people shot down
civilian airliners and planted bombs at the airport… anti-American mobs
had burned and ransacked the US embassy in Islamabad and American
cultural centers in two other Pakistani cities… their brother Islamic
fundamentalists in next-door Iran seized the US Embassy in Teheran… and
held 55 Americans hostage for over a year.”

Supporting acknowledged terrorists and enemies presented the US
government with a huge public relations problem. So the White House and
CIA went to work on the propaganda front. The United Sates Information
Agency (USIA) launched the “Afghan Media Project.”
The project was run by Joachim Maitre, a man who also worked with
Oliver North to make TV ads attacking government officials who were
against giving aid to the Contras during the BCCI-financed Iran-Contra Affair.

Reporting in “Covert Action: The Afghan Pipeline,” Steve Galster revealed the hypocrisy of the US propaganda campaign:

“Widespread corruption also exists among the [Afghan]
rebel leaders but has gone practically unnoticed in the United States
thanks to CIA propaganda. The same kinds of things that tarnished the
Contras’ image, such as killing civilians, drug smuggling and
embezzlement are practiced by many Afghan rebels. Taking no prisoners,
assassinating suspected government collaborators, destroying
government-built schools and hospitals, killing ‘unpious’ civilians are
just a few of the inhumane acts they have carried out. But the picture
we receive of the rebels in the United States is of an uncorrupt,
popular group of freedom-loving people who aspire toward a democratic
society.”

In “Jihad International Inc.,” Eqbal Ahmad further exposed the propaganda effort:

“They also invested in this Jihad the legitimacy of their
enormous power, and the luster of their media-made glory. On one
especially memorable occasion when Afghanistan’s hard-line Islamists
visited the White House, President Ronald Reagan described them as the
Muslim world’s ‘moral equivalent of our founding fathers.’ Similarly,
the American and European media played up the war in Afghanistan as the
greatest story of the eighties. Foreign correspondents combed the Hindu
Kush for stories of ‘Mooj’ heroism. Competition for Jihad narrative was
so great that in one instance a major network, CBS, paid handsomely to film a staged battle between Islam and Communism.
As the western media carries great importance and authority in the
third world, its Afghanistan war coverage made an enormous impact,
especially on Muslim youth.”
















As bin Laden himself would later say in his 1997 interview with CNN,
“I have benefited so greatly from the Jihad in Afghanistan that it
would have been impossible for me to gain such benefit from any other
chance…”

Thanks to CIA funding and weapons, delivered through BCCI’s “black network
with the help of Pakistan’s intelligence service the ISI, bin Laden and
al Qaeda were off and running. In 1992, just after BCCI had been shut
down in a global sweep, the Afghan-Soviet war finally came to an end.
The war resulted in the death of 1.3 million Afghans, three million were disabled, and 5.5 million became refugees - in total, about half the population.

When BCCI was shut down, most of its major players were allowed to
walk away without being held accountable, due to the fact that BCCI was deeply entwined within the upper echelons of US intelligence. Elements of BCCI would then evolve into al Qaeda, as the Washington Post revealed in 2002:

“William F. Wechsler, who monitored bin Laden’s finances
at the National Security Council during the last two years of the
Clinton administration, told Congress in September that bin Laden
initially rose to prominence for building ‘a financial architecture that
supported the Mujaheddin in Afghanistan against the Russians.’

‘It’s this financial architecture that continued with him when he
turned to terrorism, and it’s this financial architecture that is at the
heart of how al Qaeda today gets its finances,’ he said.

Much of that architecture, according to French, Pakistani and
American investigators, is modeled on the Bank of Credit and Commerce
International (BCCI)…. In the 1980s it was used to launder drug money,
harbor terrorist funds and buy illegal weapons. Its collapse in 1991 was
a major global financial scandal.

The CIA used BCCI to funnel millions of dollars to the fighters
battling the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Bin Laden had accounts in
the bank, U.S. officials said….

The BCCI Model

A 70-page French intelligence report, prepared for Parliament in
October and obtained by The Washington Post, outlined some details of
this network. ‘The financial network of bin Laden, as well as his
network of investments, is similar to the network put in place in the
1980s by BCCI for its fraudulent operations, often with the same people
(former directors and cadres of the bank and its affiliates, arms
merchants oil merchants, Saudi investors),’ the report said. ‘The
dominant trait of bin Laden’s operations is that of a terrorist network
backed up by a vast financial structure.’

A senior U.S. investigator said U.S. agencies were looking into these
ties because ‘they just make so much sense, and so few people from BCCI
ever went to jail. BCCI was the mother and father of terrorist
financing operations.’

The report identifies dozens of companies and individuals who were
involved with BCCI and were found to be dealing with bin Laden after the
bank collapsed. Many went on to work in banks and charities identified
by the United States and others as supporting al Qaeda.”

BCCI’s Chief Operations Officer and the man the US Senate Intelligence Committee
considered to be “the most powerful banker in the Middle East,” Khalid
bin Mahfouz, was let off with a fine and would become a major al Qaeda
funder.

As the Washington Post report continued:

“The French report highlighted the role of Saudi banker
Khalid bin Mahfouz, a former director of BCCI, whose sister is married
to bin Laden. In 1995 bin Mahfouz paid a $225 million fine in a
settlement with U.S. prosecutors for his role in the BCCI scandal and
went on to serve as director of the National Commercial Bank, one of
Saudi Arabia’s largest….

Saudi officials, at the urging of the United States, audited his bank
and found that millions of dollars were being funneled through the bank
to charities controlled by bin Laden, U.S. officials and the French
document said…. U.S. intelligence officials said Washington pushed for
the audit of bin Mahfouz’s bank but was never allowed to question him.

Saudi officials ‘weren’t willing to let us talk to him,’ said one
U.S. source with direct knowledge of events, ‘and we asked at a very
senior level.’”

One vital point that most of the US mainstream media obscured when
revealing bin Mahfouz as a key al Qaeda funder was his heavy ongoing
involvement with top US officials and oil companies throughout BCCI’s
reign and after the bank’s collapse. One of the few outlets to pick up
on this was the Boston Herald, who reported in December, 2001:

“Two billionaire Saudi families scrutinized by
authorities for possible financial ties to Osama bin Laden’s terrorist
network continue to engage in major oil deals with leading U.S.
corporations.

The bin Mahfouz and Al-Amoudi clans, who control three private Saudi
Arabian oil companies, are partners with U. S. firms in a series of
ambitious oil development and pipeline projects in central and south
Asia, records show.

Working through their companies - Delta Oil, Nimir Petroleum and
Corral Petroleum - the Saudi families have formed international
consortiums with U. S. oil giants Texaco, Unocal, Amerada Hess and
Frontera Resources.

These business relationships persist despite evidence that members of
the two Saudi families - headed by patriarchs Khalid bin Mahfouz and
Mohammed Hussein Al-Amoudi - have had ties to Islamic charities and
companies linked financially to bin Laden’s al-Qaeda organization. So
far, bin Mahfouz and Al-Amoudi… have been left untouched by the U. S.
Treasury Department, which has frozen the assets of 150 individuals,
companies and charities suspected of financing terrorism….”

II: “The Strategy of the Silk Route” & 9/11

The Covert Origins of the Af-Pak War and How It May Lead to World WarOne
of the world’s richest oil fields is on the eastern shore of the
Caspian sea, just northeast of Afghanistan. The Caspian oil reserves
are of top strategic importance in the quest to control the earth’s
remaining oil supply. The U.S. government developed a policy called “The Strategy of the Silk Route.”
The strategy was designed to lock out Russia, China, and Iran from the
oil in this region. This called for U.S. corporations to construct an
oil pipeline running through Afghanistan. Since the mid 1990s, a
consortium of US oil companies led by Unocal, which was later bought by
Chevron, have been pursuing this goal. The plan was to build a
Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline from Turkmenistan’s natural gas fields to
Pakistan. Unocal partnered with Saudi Delta Oil, which was owned by al
Qeada funders Khalid bin Mahfouz and Mohammed Hussein al-Amoudi, and
they formed Central Asia Gas Pipeline, Ltd. (CentGas).

A feasibility study for the Central Asian pipeline project was
performed by Enron. This study concluded that as long as the country
was split among fighting warlords the pipeline could not be built.
Stability was necessary for the $4.5 billion project and the US believed
that the Taliban would impose the necessary order. U.S. intelligence
and Pakistan’s ISI then continued the close relationship that they
established through BCCI and agreed to funnel arms and funding to the
Taliban in their war for control of Afghanistan. Until 1999, US
taxpayers paid the entire annual salary
of every single Taliban government official. The U.S., Saudi and
Pakistani alliance established within BCCI reunited to facilitate the
rise of the Taliban.

The American oil interests at the heart of this pipeline deal took
control of the White House on January 20, 2001, when George Bush Jr.
became president. As previously mentioned, Enron was heavily involved
in this oil deal. Enron CEO Ken Lay was an old Bush family friend and
was Bush Jr.’s biggest campaign contributor. Donald Rumsfeld, who
became the Secretary of Defense, was a large stockholder in Enron.
Thomas White, former vice-chairman of Enron, became the Secretary of the
Army. Condoleezza Rice, a former Chevron board member, became National
Security Advisor and then Secretary of State. A major benefactor of
the CentGas deal was going to be Halliburton. Dick Cheney, who became
Vice President, was Halliburton’s CEO. Richard Armitage, who worked as a
key lobbyist for Unocal, became Under Secretary of State. Hamid
Karzai, who would later become Afghanistan’s Prime Minister, was a top
Unocal adviser.

Shortly after taking office, the Bush Administration was quickly
losing faith in the Taliban’s ability to control Afghanistan and be a
reliable partner in the pipeline deal. James Baker, who was also a key BCCI player,
having served as Treasury Secretary, Bush Sr.’s Secretary of State and
Chief of Staff during BCCI’s reign, was a leading player in developing
the “Strategy of the Silk Route.” In April 2001, Baker and the Council
on Foreign Relations demanded immediate action and publicly released a
Task Force Report entitled, “Strategic Energy Policy Challenges For The 21st Century,”
by the James A. Baker III Institute. They stressed the urgency of the
pipeline project and openly called for the Bush Administration to
“quickly facilitate higher exports of oil from the Caspian Basin
region…” and they reiterated the basic premise of the “Strategy of the
Silk Route,” stating, “the exports from oil discoveries in the Caspian
Basin could be hastened if a secure, economical export route could be
identified swiftly.” That “export route,” as previously planned, would
need to run through Afghanistan and into Pakistan.

The tangled web of conflicts of interests within the Bush Administration, oil industry, Taliban and al Qaeda were concisely summed up by investigative reporter Loretta Napoleoni:

“The CentGas deal never came to fruition. The Taliban’s
inability to commit to any agreement, coupled with public recognition of
the exploitive nature of their regime, contributed to its failure. For
years, the Taliban skilfully conducted simultaneous negotiations with
two potential oil companies: Argentinean Bridas [later bought by BP] and
Unocal/CentGas. Both companies showered the Taliban with gifts and
money, flying their delegations to the US to win them over. On one
occasion, a group of Taliban met high-ranking executives of Unocal in
Texas. Parties, dinners and trips to the local shopping malls were
organized. At the same time, Zalmay Khalizad, who was working for
Unocal, lobbied the Clinton administration to ‘engage’ with the Taliban.
The press reported some of these ‘informal’ meetings between US
officials and rulers of Afghanistan: ‘Senior Taliban leaders attended a
conference in Washington in mid-1996 and US diplomats regularly traveled
to Taliban headquarters,’ wrote the Guardian….

‘The United States wants good ties [with the Taliban] but can’t
openly seek them while women are oppressed,’ reported CNN. None the
less, negotiations carried on more or less openly until 1998, when bin
Laden’s associates bombed US embassies in Africa. Clinton launched
cruise missiles at bin Laden’s supposed whereabouts in Afghanistan, an
act that convinced the oil lobby that, for the moment, the pipeline deal
could not go ahead….

Corporate America continued to do business with people who supported
Islamist insurgency. The oil industry, in particular, continues to be
run by a very small group of American and Saudi families with close
financial relations. Among them were the Bush family, the bin Laden
family and Osama bin Laden’s Saudi sponsors. The ties among these
people go back a long way….

Naturally, as soon as George W. Bush was elected president, Unocal
and BP-Amoco, which had in the meantime bought Bridas, the Argentinean
rival, started once again to lobby the administration, among whom were
several of their former employees. Unocal knew that Bush was ready to
back them and resumed the consortium negotiations. In January 2001, it
began discussions with the Taliban, backed by members of the Bush
administration among whom was Under Secretary of State Richard Armitage,
who had previously worked as a lobbyist for Unocal. The Taliban, for
their part, employed as their PR officer in the US Laila Helms, niece of
Richard Helms, [BCCI player] former director of the CIA and former US
ambassador to Iran. In March 2001, Helms succeeded in bringing
Rahmatullah Hashami, Mullah Omar’s adviser, to Washington…. As late as
August 2001, meetings were held in Pakistan to discuss the pipeline
business….

While negotiations were underway, the US was secretly making plans to
invade Afghanistan. The Bush Administration and its oil sponsors were
losing patience with the Taliban; they wanted to get the Central Asian
gas pipeline going as soon as possible. The ‘Strategy of the Silk
Route’ had been resumed….

Paradoxically, 11 September provided the Washington with a casus belli
to invade Afghanistan and establish a pro American government in the
country. When, a few weeks after the attack, the leaders of the two
Pakistani Islamist parties negotiated with Mullah Omar and bin Laden for
the latter’s extradition to Pakistan to stand trial for the 11
September attacks, the US refused the offer. Back in 1996, the Sudanese
Minister of Defence, Major General Elfaith Erwa, had also offered to
extradite Osama bin Laden, then resident in Sudan, to the US. American
officials declined the offer at that time as well. ‘Just don’t let him
go to Somalia,’ they added…. When Erwa disclosed that he was going to
Afghanistan, the American answer was ‘let him go’….

In November 2001… Hamid Karzai was elected [Afghanistan’s] prime
minister…. Yet very few people remember that during the 1990’s Karzai
was involved in negotiations with the Taliban regime for the
construction of a Central Asian gas pipeline from Turkmenistan through
western Afghanistan to Pakistan. At that time he was a top adviser and
lobbyist for Unocal… In the early 1990’s, thanks to his [Karzai's]
excellent contacts with the ISI, he moved to the US where he cooperated
with the CIA and the ISI in supporting the Taliban’s political
adventure.

President Bush’s special envoy to the newly formed Afghanistan state
is a man named Zalmay Khalilzad, another former employee of Unocal. In
1997, he produced a detailed analysis of the risks involved in the
construction of the Central Asian gas pipeline. Khalilzad also worked
as a lobbyist for Unocal and therefore knows Karzai very well. In the
1980s… President Reagan named Khalilzad special adviser to the State
Department; it was thanks to his influence that the US accelerated the
shipment of military aid to the Mujahedin.”

Yet another interesting conflict of interest: the Chairman of the
9/11 Commission investigation was Thomas Kean. Kean was also a key
player in this pipeline deal as a director of Hess Corp., which was in a
joint venture called Delta Oil, with Khalid Bin Mahfouz and Mohammed
Hussein al Amoudi. It is also important to mention that James Baker,
who had a lead role in developing the “Strategy of the Silk Route” and BCCI operations, was hired by these same BCCI/Saudi/al Qaeda oil interests to defend them against lawsuits brought by families of 9/11 victims.

As mentioned in the last chapter, George Bush Sr.’s role in the BCCI Affair cannot be overstated. Even George Bush Jr. had oil companies that were funded by these same BCCI/Saudi/al Qaeda interests. To make matters even worse, the same person who played a pivotal role in covering-up and derailing investigations into BCCI at the Justice Department, was the person who was put in charge of the FBI on September 4, 2001, Robert Mueller - and he is still running the FBI under Obama.

In summation, the CentGas oil consortium that connected all of these
interests with Bush Jr.’s administration are undeniably suspect, at
best. All of these players and interests are so incestuous that the
heated debate over whether or not 9/11 was an inside job is almost
irrelevant when you understand the history behind it. Whether it was an
attack by al Qaeda or a false flag covert intelligence operation to win
public support and trillions of taxpayer dollars for the never-ending
“War on Terror” and control of Central Asian oil is essentially a
non-issue. The main point, which cannot be legitimately argued, is that
9/11 would never have happened if it wasn’t for an out-of-control
intelligence apparatus, and we now know the people who were operating
that intelligence apparatus. All of the players involved were part of
the same banking intelligence network known as BCCI.
Al Qaeda and 9/11 were a direct outgrowth and evolution of BCCI
intelligence operations. It was the same people, continuing to do what
they had been doing all along, except this time their target was on US
soil.

And this same out-of-control intelligence apparatus was the biggest beneficiary of 9/11, having had their funding budgets more than doubled since the attack. Knowing how uncontrollable the intelligence world was leading up to 9/11, let’s look again at this report from the Washington Post:

“The top-secret world the government created in response
to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, has become so large, so
unwieldy and so secretive that no one knows how much money it costs, how
many people it employs, how many programs exist within it or exactly
how many agencies do the same work…. After nine years of unprecedented
spending and growth, the result is that the system put in place to keep
the United States safe is so massive that its effectiveness is
impossible to determine…. The U.S. intelligence budget is vast, publicly
announced last year as $75 billion, 2 1/2 times the size it was on
Sept. 10, 2001. But the figure doesn’t include many military activities
or domestic counterterrorism programs.”

III: The Road to World War III

The Covert Origins of the Af-Pak War and How It May Lead to World WarThe
war for a pipeline to extract oil from the Caspian Sea is far from
over. China, a country US oil interests were determined to block out of
the region, has been making moves to take control and has clearly
established the upper hand. In a TomDispatch report entitled, “Pipelineistan’s New Silk Road,” Asia Times correspondent Pepe Escobar reports:

“Future historians may well agree that the twenty-first
century Silk Road first opened for business on December 14, 2009. That
was the day a crucial stretch of pipeline officially went into operation
linking the fabulously energy-rich state of Turkmenistan (via
Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan) to Xinjiang Province in China’s far west….

The bottom line is that, by 2013, Shanghai, Guangzhou, and Hong Kong
will be cruising to ever more dizzying economic heights courtesy of
natural gas supplied by the 1,833-kilometer-long Central Asia Pipeline,
then projected to be operating at full capacity…. When the Bush
administration’s armchair generals launched their Global War on Terror,
this was not exactly what they had in mind.

Meanwhile, in the New Great Game in Eurasia, China had the good sense
not to… get bogged down in an infinite quagmire in Afghanistan.
Instead, the Chinese simply made a direct commercial deal with
Turkmenistan and, profiting from that country’s disagreements with
Moscow, built itself a pipeline which will provide much of the natural
gas it needs.

No wonder the Obama administration’s Eurasian energy czar Richard
Morningstar was forced to admit at a congressional hearing that the U.S.
simply cannot compete with China when it comes to Central Asia’s energy
wealth. If only he had delivered the same message to the Pentagon….

If China has so far proven masterly in the way it has played its
cards in its Pipelineistan ‘war’, the U.S. hand — bypass Russia, elbow
out China, isolate Iran — may soon be called for what it is: a bluff.”

If you have wondered why so many US/NATO/private military troops have
been deployed to the Af-Pak region, just consider that China, which
shares a border with Pakistan and Afghanistan, has also begun moving
troops into the region (it is also important to note that Iran is
surrounded by Afghanistan and Iraq). As a New York Times report stated:

“[Pakistan] is handing over de facto control of the
strategic Gilgit-Baltistan region in the northwest corner of disputed
Kashmir to China.

The entire Pakistan-occupied western portion of Kashmir stretching
from Gilgit in the north to Azad (Free) Kashmir in the south is closed
to the world, in contrast to the media access that India permits in the
eastern part, where it is combating a Pakistan-backed insurgency. But
reports from a variety of foreign intelligence sources… reveal two
important new developments in Gilgit-Baltistan: a simmering rebellion
against Pakistani rule and the influx of an estimated 7,000 to 11,000
soldiers of the [Chinese] People’s Liberation Army.

China wants a grip on the region to assure unfettered road and rail
access to the Gulf through Pakistan. It takes 16 to 25 days for Chinese
oil tankers to reach the Gulf. When high-speed rail and road links
through Gilgit and Baltistan are completed, China will be able to
transport cargo from Eastern China to the new Chinese-built Pakistani
naval bases at Gwadar, Pasni and Ormara, just east of the Gulf, within
48 hours.”

As the war in Afghanistan continues to escalate
over the border into Pakistan, you can be assured that China, Russia
and Iran will become more militarily involved in defense of their
region’s resources. Pakistan is already becoming increasingly hostile to an escalation of US drone and NATO strikes within its borders, and have even begun to openly aid the Taliban by cutting off key NATO supply lines. Pakistan has also recently deployed anti-aircraft missiles
on its border with Afghanistan. Current intelligence leads one to
conclude that the war will continue to expand further into Pakistan,
which will lead to China and Iran becoming more involved in what is
essentially a proxy war against US/NATO/private military forces.

The bottom line, and one of the main themes of this book,
is that we have entered a period of major wars over declining
resources. The Af-Pak operations are only initial moves in an attempt
to control the earth’s remaining oil supply.

Any talks of troop withdrawals from the Af-Pak region and Iraq are
psychological operations. US/NATO/private military contractors are
still in the process of building the world’s largest military bases in this region, they are not going to abandon these newly constructed mega-bases.
These bases are designed to be operational and, as oil continues to
become more scarce, they will be used to militarily control the
remaining supply throughout this region.

Chris Martenson, a former Vice President at intelligence company SAIC, recently wrote the following in an analysis entitled, “Future Chaos: There Is No ‘Plan B’:”

“The future is likely to be more chaotic than you
probably think. This was the primary conclusion that I came to after
attending the most recent Association for the Study of Peak Oil &
Gas (ASPO) in Washington, DC in October, 2010…. The impact of Peak Oil
on markets, lifestyles, and even national solvency deserves our very
highest attention…. Rear Admiral Lawrence Rice… presented the findings
of the 2010 Joint Operating Environment (a forward-looking document
examining the trends, contexts, and implications for future joint force
commanders in the US military), which spends 76 pages summarizing the
key trends and threats of the world…. Peak Oil dominates the discussion.
Among the conclusions (on page 29), we find this:

‘By 2012, surplus oil production capacity could entirely disappear,
and as early as 2015, the shortfall in output could reach nearly 10
MBD.’”

The Covert Origins of the Af-Pak War and How It May Lead to World WarThe  Joint Operating Environment report goes on to reveal:

“To meet climbing global requirements, OPEC will have to
increase its output from 30 MBD to at least 50 MBD. Significantly, no
OPEC nation, except perhaps Saudi Arabia, is investing sufficient sums
in new technologies and recovery methods to achieve such growth. Some,
like Venezuela and Russia, are actually exhausting their fields to cash
in on the bonanza created by rapidly rising oil prices….

A severe energy crunch is inevitable without a massive expansion of
production and refining capacity. While it is difficult to predict
precisely what economic, political, and strategic effects such a
shortfall might produce, it surely would reduce the prospects for growth
in both the developing and developed worlds….”

Increasing OPEC output up to 50 MBD from the current level of 30 MBD
is simply not possible, in fact it’s absurd to even consider that as a
possibility. Once you disregard that, as the report states, “A severe
energy crunch is inevitable.” To make matters even worse, we are much
more likely to see a steady decline in output. So war with Pakistan,
China, Russia and Iran, along with continued military operations in
Afghanistan and Iraq, is increasingly probable, and their planned
strategy.

Their strategy becomes all the more apparent when you consider the ramp up in military exercises and drills around China, which has included a series of massive 86,000-troop war games throughout the Korean Peninsula. Add in the recent record-setting $123 Billion in weapons sales to Gulf nations, with Saudi Arabia getting $67.8 Billion in weapons, which was the largest US arms deal ever. Israel also recently purchased 20 F-35 fighter jets for $2.5 billion, and has recently conducted their largest ever joint military exercises with the US. [See Moves Upon the Grand Chessboard for more information. In the next part of this series, we will take a close look at how Iraq fits into this picture.]

Now that we have a basic understanding of how much effort has gone
into controlling Middle East and Caspian oil, and as demand for oil
increases as production decreases, we can easily see how this is going
to become an increasingly dangerous and hostile situation. If we stay on
this present course, the “Strategy of the Silk Route” leads us straight
down the road to World War III.

IV: War Racket: The Global Banking Intelligence Complex Business Plan

The Covert Origins of the Af-Pak War and How It May Lead to World WarOne
of the reactions a person may have after learning this information, is
to believe that perhaps these wars to control the earth’s remaining oil
supply are beneficial to the US population. It may even eventually be a
clever propaganda strategy to paint these wars as preserving the
American way of life and our standard of living by obtaining these vital
resources. Coming to this belief would be tremendously naïve.

As recent history has proved, US oil interests and the bankers behind
them are global in nature and they don’t have any loyalty to the
American people. As their actions have clearly demonstrated, they use
the oil, and the obscene profits obtained from it, for their own
short-sighted personal gain, at the brutal expense of the overwhelming
majority of humanity and at the extraordinary expense of the earth’s
ecosystem. Americans are shielded from the enormous inhumanity of millions
of maimed and dead bodies as a result of their addiction to power. If
these wars continue to escalate, they will inevitably lead to more
attacks on American soil.

The profits from these wars are also a primary driving factor in
having them in the first place, and is a major incentive to keep them
going. Billions of taxpayer dollars are thrown around in the “fog of war,” in what is called a “free-fraud zone.”
The military companies and the bankers behind them reap huge profits
in the process. So fighting these highly profitable wars, for highly
profitable resources, is the ultimate win-win situation, and the
deliberately chosen business model for the Global Banking Intelligence Complex.

A point that clearly demonstrates the parasitic nature and pure insanity of this: the world’s #1 polluter and consumer
of oil is the US/NATO/private military machine. So while they so
desperately fight for oil, they are burning up significant amounts of it
in the process.

The fact that the average American never gets the information
presented in this report via mainstream media proves how tightly
controlled the corporate media is. It also clearly demonstrates the
blatant fact that the Global Banking Cartel
doesn’t want American citizens to have even a basic understanding of
geo-strategic interests and how power really functions. Above all, the
American public must be kept in its place, as the cartel emphatically
believes that they are the kings and we are the serfs,
and it is none of our business how they conduct themselves. If you are
not already a multi-millionaire or billionaire, you have now been
marked for either servitude or slow death. That is a very harsh truth,
but in the new world of declining resources, looted economies and
environmental upheaval, this is the unfortunate reality of the
situation. Until the American public can wake up to this new reality,
turn off the television and fight back, our living standards will continue to decline at an increasing rate.

~~ The next part of this series will be posted in a few days.
Stay tuned for “The Covert Origins of the Iraq War: BCCI, Kissinger
Associates, SAIC, & Robert Gates.” To be notified via email of new
postings from this series, subscribe here.

 


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Wed, 10/20/2010 - 22:33 | Link to Comment NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

LOL. of course, its all Bush's fault.

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:01 | Link to Comment lawrence1
lawrence1's picture

Stupid response, probably hasnt read 1 percent of the posting.

Unfortunately, the author´s book rings true and its hard to deny that the US public are well managed, ignorant sheep.  There is  anger now, an awareness that the system is not serving them and I hope they wil not be channeled into hating immigrants, the poor, the unemployed, etc... but probably many will.  So the field is ripe for Sarah Palin ...who has seen Russia from Alaska!  Nuke em!  Yeah!  and other idiotic solutions. Default on Chinese bonds!  Send in the Marines!  FUCKED UP DUMMED DOWN OBESE PROTOPLASM..

¨From every BVD let freedom ring!¨(Cummings)

 

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:35 | Link to Comment Rasna
Rasna's picture

I'm not going to get into it here, but these are consistent remarks from NOTW777... Everyone is free to express their opinion, but to consistently hold onto the spoon fed Faux News talking points causes him/her to completely miss the bigger picture.

All I can say is that the Bush Administration:

  1. Brought us "leagalized torture"
  2. Consistently shredded the Constitution
  3. Pushed through (With the help of the Rethug Senate majority - 51 votes) the unfunded/unpaid for tax cuts to the top 1% (NOTW may be in this group, but I doubt it)
  4. Lied us into a costly - lives and treasure - war in Iraq.
  5. Oversaw the loss of many of the constitutional freedoms that we took for granted.

I could go on... On the other side, O is continuing and in some instances going further than the Bush policies... In closing, we can thank Clinton for NAFTA, GATT and the WTO whic put our trade policies into the dumper, put the stake through the heart of American manufacturing and sent thousands of American jobs over seas.

Again, put down the bright shiny objects that the MSM and right wing talk shows feed you, take a look around without the blinders and do some critical thinking...

This is not about us vs them, that's propaganda that most swallow all too easily... This is about saving ourselves and saving America.

NOTW, where were you while all of this was happening?

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:56 | Link to Comment Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

Alan Greenspan (born March 6, 1926) is an American economist who served as Chairman of the Federal Reserve of the United States from 1987 to 2006. He currently works as a private advisor and provides consulting for firms through his company, Greenspan Associates LLC. First appointed Federal Reserve chairman by President Ronald Reagan in August 1987, he was reappointed at successive four-year intervals until retiring on January 31, 2006 after the second-longest tenure in the position

Is this relevant to to conversation?

Where does the power lie? Democrat or republican? 

 

We need to get past the donkey or elephant syndrome and find who holds the feed bucket.

 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 02:21 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

"Where does the power lie? Democrat or republican?"

You're not even close! (Hint: look outside your borders).

An astoundingly frank and accurate article -- including the conclusions, unfortunately. 5-stars!

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 08:10 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

+++ 1000.  Its true, its so true.  This whole article is manutia for the masses to consume. It really means nothing.  This smoke screen is put up to confuse and to obviscate and frankly  I learned a long time ago, not to get lost in the manutia. Or as soneone said one time, let us cut the root, and not the limbs. These players are pawns in the big game. Who is the king and who is the queen. That is all I am concerned with. I am now going to waste some time and read this piece. But you are right. It is all a big dog and pony show and many will come away after reading this and think that they now know the real reasons things happen, but they won't. If this guy knew real truth, number 1, there is not a publishing company in this land that would publish it. For you see, all of these "facts" were cleared by the powers that be, shall we say , before it was even considered for publication. So I can dance the dance, and say hello to Al Quaeda and watch the puppets such as Bin Laden (whoever that is and if he ever existed) on the stage and be entertained. Meanwhile Rome is burning and nobody is doing anything about it.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 09:29 | Link to Comment spartan117
spartan117's picture

+300 million or so

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:55 | Link to Comment RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You aren't real smart are you?  If that is all you got from this article then you are somewhat less than intelligent.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 01:00 | Link to Comment tyler
tyler's picture

To me the first comment is extremely disturbing because the person who wrote it obviously is blinded by partisan ideology even after facts are presented.  There are tens of millions just like him who constantly whine about people blaming bush but make a living attacking obama.  One day my friend you may start questioning everyone and everything you hear if you are so lucky but you knuckle draggers don't seem capable. 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 02:55 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

the person who wrote it obviously is blinded by partisan ideology even after facts are presented.

 

 

Blinded? I dont know. Probably aware of a certain reality. In the west, somehow, the project was to make struggle over power less determining of people's life.

It might be a total failure

This guy does not oppose the actions led by the US government. He wants to be part of the gang that crops the benefits of the actions. Joining a political side is the way. It matters most for him to be in charge. Being in charge determines who wins and who loses. He does not oppose democrats per se but because democrats can challenge for the control of the state apparatus. They are a rival gang.

This kind of people can never condemn the actions. They are only able to condemn people who reap benefits from the actions. In their mind, the biggest crime is to steal that position of being in charge from them.

Blinded? No. Determined to struggle over the state apparatus. Because it is what is going to make a difference. Being in power or not.

 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 03:32 | Link to Comment DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

Don't be to concerned.

The article posted @ 19:28 elicited the Jackass'

canned response @ 19:33.

The dolt didn't even read the entire article, just wanted to be

adolescently first with a Jackass remark.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 06:47 | Link to Comment Betty Swallsack
Betty Swallsack's picture

"There are tens of millions just like him who constantly whine about people blaming bush but make a living attacking obama."

....who is continuing the very same policies.  It is why there is no left/right paradigm.  It is a false dichotomy. There are not two parties, but only one that serves the interests of corporations and banksters, and is ensuring that what is left of the middle-class goes the way of (insert extinct species here).  You, 'tyler', seem to be in defense of Obummer thinking that he is any different than his predecessor.  The illusion has washed over you.  He's a puppet.  Just as Bush was. 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 08:19 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Its true. They are all controlled and parties do not matter.

 

Let us not forget why we are in these wars in the first place. Because of 911. We were lied to and we continue to be lied to and here it is almost ten years later and still we fight wars that never end for nothing. We kill and bother innocent people for nothing , people that never had anything to do with 911.  And when someone says too much or continues to be a problem, suddenly they die .....

 

Mysterious deaths of witnesses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvay28lZiHU&NR=1&feature=fvwp

 

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 22:52 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

BOJ shot a load

Is this just a pre-cursor? It seems BOJ acts before everyone else everytime.

Did the chicken come before the egg? I can't figure this out.

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:44 | Link to Comment MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

International date line?  Just sayin'.  Didn't last too long for them though did it?

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:48 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

You've left the rooster out of the equation.  Type III error.  Terminate.

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:00 | Link to Comment bullandbearwise
bullandbearwise's picture

Yawn. Had Israel never been conceived, this entire region would still be eating sand, merrily selling oil to the west with nary a whimper as they did in the 1930s. It is the Israeli need to keep stirring the pot that riled these rag-heads up to fly planes into buildings.

Nothing new here - the U.S. and Britain poured this cast in 1948 and we get to live with it for eternity. Beats the German solution...

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:09 | Link to Comment doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

"the voter."  does it ever change?

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 08:27 | Link to Comment Rollerball
Rollerball's picture

That dog won't hunt.  Charlie don't surf and rag-heads don't fly.   

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:00 | Link to Comment onlooker
onlooker's picture

Do we send our children to die, for what again?

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:03 | Link to Comment MountainMan
MountainMan's picture

reminds me of how they feedom fighters were portraied in Rambo 3...freedom loving patriots...

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:04 | Link to Comment MountainMan
MountainMan's picture

sorry for the typo..I'm drunk on scotch...

 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:10 | Link to Comment doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

really?  what brand?

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:13 | Link to Comment Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

The ultimate solution. Starve them. Stop shopping and convert all your savings into useful things and wealth preserving commodities and make sure that you enjoy life in the meanwhile.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:12 | Link to Comment doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

no, no, no.  You "send them Burger King" and "cable tv with free internet porn."  they'll be so couch potatoed they will bow down to us as though we were Gods from Mars AND Venus.

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:13 | Link to Comment carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

50 Percent of the US Military will be Robotic By 2015

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:17 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Is a military needed when one country has enough nukes to wipeout all life on our planet (a few countries have this capability)?

Do you really think a military is needed?

A military is only needed for policing at our point.

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:22 | Link to Comment carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Well you can't nuke all the dogs just because some of 'em have fleas.

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:38 | Link to Comment michigan independant
michigan independant's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMV5Y2e7c2E

Coming soon

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/219991

82 to 95 percent of Sudan's oil -- the lifeblood of the Bashir regime -- lies in South Sudan, much of it along the unresolved border between the two halves.  

http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?page=imprimable&id_article=16845

"We shall never hand Darfur over to international forces which will never enjoy being in the region that will become their graveyard," Bashir was quoted as telling a rally at Zeribah in North Kordofan, central Sudan.

An unpublished United Nations report saying Chinese bullets were used in attacks on peacekeeping troops in the Darfur region of Sudan is an "attack" on China and shouldn't be made public, a Chinese diplomat said.

Yang Tao said the allegation that Chinese ammunition was used by Darfur militias, suggesting a possible violation of the UN arms embargo on the region, was no more than a "guess" and that only "proven scientific, independent, objective views" should be included in such reports.

"It is an attack on China," Yang said in an interview.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/china-wants-un-report-on-chinese-ammunition-in-darfur-blocked-20101021-16v9a.html

October 21, 2010 - 2:01PM

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:26 | Link to Comment zen0
zen0's picture

WORLD WAR III........!!!!!!!!!

 

Its always gonna be WW3. Just because that is the next one in line, if there is one.

simple solutions. Get out of Mid East oil. Bring home the troops. Invest in alternative energy and domestic reserves.

 

I wonder what the hold-up is? Parties interested in status quo maybe? With lots of oil money?

 

Americans have to accept they are just another country before anything will improve. If that doesn't happen, forget about it.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:07 | Link to Comment TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Pulling out of the Middle East militarily means applying the same forces to ensure the continued free trade of oil and much else within our own hemisphere.   

The Europeans and Asians consume most of the oil out of the Persian gulf, not the U.S.    The price of the oil the U.S. buys comes from there, but not the oil itself, if you get my drift.   The parties the most immediately and direly screwed by U.S. isolationism would be its "allies" such as Europe and Japan, because they have no means of protecting the sea lanes and security of the petro states that provide most of their oil.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 08:21 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Sir, we are not in the middle east because of oil. Please.....

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 01:12 | Link to Comment trgfunds
trgfunds's picture

Simple solutions? I love responses like this because they totally overlook one simple glaring fact. THEY (globalists, elites, TPTB) DO NOT want the same things you want. It's like telling a serial murderer "hey, simple solution, just don't kill anyone" with the pretense that they have the same logic, ideas, thought processes, goals, and level of reasoning that you do. (And then when they keep killing, telling them again) This is the problem. Everyone in America is divided and conquered into debating what the solutions are when the solutions aren't what matters here. Any sane person can come up with solutions to any of this crap. But it's like having an assembly line that makes a broken product, then fixing the product afterward and never questioning the first or second stage of production that causes the problem. The end result is exactly where they want you to focus. The people in power do not have the same goals you do. There is and has been a WAR being conducted now for quite some time. Many have called it the "quiet war" using "silent weapons". Their enemy is YOU. Their weapons are the education, media, legal, financial, medical, psychological, and other systems. The elites speak a completely different language and see you literally as an animal. Start by completely and totally throwing out any and all paradigms you currently subscribe to. Like, there ARE no countries. Everything you know about anything is a lie. etc. etc. etc. When people do this, only then will there be a true awakening.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 12:02 | Link to Comment Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"Everything you know about anything is a lie. etc. etc."

I totally agree with everything you said.  We are cattle to be milked.  And the first lie we need to dispel is that the US is a "representative democracy" or "republic."  An apathetic, ignorant, propagandized citizenry represents nothing more than an idiocracy and to further secure the corrupt status quo, the idiocracy is only presented with candidates vetted by the system.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 02:45 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Roman numerals are so 20th century. Here in the future we leave room for patching our fuck-ups. Thus, it shall be WW 3.01

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:30 | Link to Comment Weimar Ben Bernanke
Weimar Ben Bernanke's picture

Didn't a general warned us about wars in mainland Asia? If there is a ground war the theaters will be in Burma and Vietnam. A ground war with China would be a messy stalemate. I cannot see a scenario how war with the US and China begin. If China attacks Taiwan it would be costly. From what I understand China does not have a power projection from outside its borders yet. China is not a threat. This myth is drawn up by cold warriors neo cons who want a new enemy. Russia is a shell of its former self. Pakistan is what worries me. A ground war in Pakistan would make Vietnam,the Pennisular War look like a water gun fight. Occupying a large population lake that is a nightmare. if Pakistan collapse,and we would have to go in there it will be a disaster waiting to happen.

From my perspective I see a major regional war between Iran vs Saudi Arabia in Iraq. The Sauds bought new toys from us and they want to use it against Iran. Iran has the proxies to unleash hell on the mideast while the Sauds will have the latest tech to fight. This decade is going to be very interesting and chaotic  geopolitically speaking. Wonder what my fellow Zero Hedge comrades forecast for this decade?

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:36 | Link to Comment michigan independant
michigan independant's picture

Dafur Vote Soon.

attacks on peacekeeping troops in the Darfur region of Sudan is an "attack" on China and shouldn't be made public, a Chinese diplomat said.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2010/sc10056.doc.htm

Noting with deep concern the increase in violence and rising inter-tribal fighting in Darfur, the Security Council this afternoon

The U.N. has a mounted a diplomatic effort to avoid bloodshed, and it has 10,000 peacekeepers already deployed to implement the 2005 peace agreement, which calls for the Jan. 9 referendum that would determine whether the south remains part of Sudan or secedes.

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:42 | Link to Comment the rookie cynic
the rookie cynic's picture

1) ZH needs more articles like this that bring important geopolitical and MIC perspectives to bear on economic matters.

2) I want to hear what B9K9 has to say about this.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:45 | Link to Comment SDRII
SDRII's picture

the author left out discussion of the ISI pipeline and how India dropped out of the venture in spitting distance of the nuke deal with the US. Article is spot on.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 03:27 | Link to Comment Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Or Geopol

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:53 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Y'all notice how the MSM, everybody has blithely taken the emergence of the No Longer any War on Terror morphing into the AfPak war without any questioning whatsoever.

Sheeple Deluxe.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:14 | Link to Comment Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

Ooh, a fresh pitcher of Kool-aid! Yum.

If you can still tolerate watching the MSM, you're a better man than I, Gunga Din. Those lying sacks of shit disgust me to the point of rage. Among other things.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 11:37 | Link to Comment Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

 

October 19, 2010

It's Rainy and Cool. I'm Not Dead.

And that's not the end of the good news.

There's an election of monumental importance in just two weeks. Once again, the always knowledgeable and perceptive American public will make known their great unhappiness with the manner of rule oozing out of Washington, D.C. An astonishing change will occur! Once again, we shall bear witness to the inexpressible glories of responsive democracy in action! We are incredibly fortunate to live in a time of such miracles. You should offer your grateful thanks several times a day, at a minimum.

Aw, c'mon. You don't think I believe that shit, do you? I said I'm not dead. And even if I were, I still wouldn't believe that shit. But I must acknowledge my boundless admiration for the reams of colossally ignorant and/or deliberately manipulative commentary telling us over and over and over again how significant and historic this election will be. How so many people can repeat these endless inanities so often without vomiting or self-immolating as the direct result of their measureless self-loathing is a considerable source of wonder to me. And all this about an election which will alter absolutely nothing of consequence.

 

Silber FTW

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/

Hmm, italics didn't work quite right...above is all italicised quote( meant to be anyway)

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 12:06 | Link to Comment Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"And all this about an election which will alter absolutely nothing of consequence."

Exactly and as usual. The perpetual ping-pong game with the ignorant, propagandized voters bouncing back and forth between two equally corrupt and OWNED major parties in a completely rigged system.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 06:35 | Link to Comment Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

"NATO" is killing Pak soldiers and Pakistanis are blowing up "NATO" supply convoys.  At what point does this qualify as war between "NATO" and Pak?  

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:21 | Link to Comment doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

Let me do a rewrite.  "Democrats take power.  Begin bombing the homeland of Pakistan with aerial drones "as friends are wont to do."  We start giving free money to ourselves causing Pakistan to no longer have bread.  (the real kind.)  God then does a "pig pile" and "makes 10 million Paki's homeless."  Then we come to them "as their only friend"  which in the sense of "only" also happens to be true to demand the world do something, which they do not.  Finally, in their...rage they....hold a few fuel trucks hostage and then...blow them up.  And of course "they continue to actually attempt to kill the only friend they have in the world on that friend's soil." this makes them stand out to "their only friend in the world" and "not as friend."  so as good friends "we give them a REAL BIG HUG" in the form of a "peace conference."  Oh, yeahh.  What's that ad say?  "Lovin' it"?  Oh, yeah.  VERY MUCH SO.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 21:29 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

References to ZH are popping up everywhere in the MSM lately.  Reminds me of HuffPo in its early days--in that respect only, of course!  I saw that article yesterday and thought that the handling of ZH was pretty respectful, even though ZH served as something of a foil. 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 01:40 | Link to Comment The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

I see a timing problem here. On the domestic front, the US could be facing riots, secession of states, hyperinflation, and/or default on debt/currency failure.

How does a government fund such a huge overseas operation when they don't have the money - or oil suppliers refuse to take any more bogus paper for their oil?

How does a government quell riots or stop state secession when most of the armed services are deployed overseas?

If the government doesn't time it "just right", failure on multiple fronts is possible - and I just don't believe these numb nuts are capable of orchestrating all that needs to be done, with the precision timing that will be required. In fact, failure on multiple fronts is the most likely outcome, IMO.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 02:32 | Link to Comment Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

All money is fiction created by those in power. The governments are the face of that power, if not the brain or the embodiment. They have all the money they can create.

The current situation has been manufactured by the banks to make you think that there is a monetary crisis. There is not. It is business as usual for the central banking empire and its local distributors.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 11:40 | Link to Comment MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Short answer is they don't.  You presume that they wish to continue these matters in perpetuity.  They may be resumed in the future, at a date to be determined, by private actors, corporations, or new states. 

Effectively, the money machine is a vehicle with a limited lifespan.  All the wars, theft, fraud, you name it are all directed for the PRINCIPAL ACTORS' pecuniary benefit.  Essentially, the pillage and looting continues until the bones are run clean.  If the end comes before WW3 kicks off, then fine, so be it...  the spoils of war (the wealth gap) have already been largely achieved.

What happens now is the world descends into chaos as the world's reserve currency gets destroyed and there is no viable replacement.  In this chaos, the perpetrators escape, losing some ether in the process, but largely converting their money into real assets.  What we do in the meantime will only act to delay the onset of this process again...  if we cast them out/hunt them down to the ends of the earth, then maybe we get a longer reprieve.  But, make no mistake, we (our descendants) will be presented with an offer from the money changers in the future and we will accept and the final battle between capitalists and our collective bargaining will begin again (and we'll lose)...  the matrix resets and we start again.

My only fear is that the present pillage and plunder will be the last robbery given the world's growth model...  meaning, as available resources and potential sources of growth are known to be supremely limited and the bubble not capable of being expanded any larger, then the robbery may never be so large...  meaning, the scales permanently tip in the battle between capitalists and collective bargaining (the money machine is just an abstraction to brush off the hindrances of collective bargaining and/or necessary to attempt to pay for the burden of collective bargaining).

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 05:15 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

They are propping the market up with unsustainable vigour with some timescale in mind! My guess is that next year will probably have to be the 'big event', rather than 2012 as they had hoped -- because their market rigging/raping is going to hell in a hand basket faster than they had anticipated.

Quelling riots on home soil will be relatively easy now that the police forces are being trained and equipped by the DOD. Fuck, I've heard they're even getting helicopter gunships now! Add the 1 million-strong domestic spying operation that is watching every move and is ready to finger you before you even think of rioting................

In any event, the overseas troops are quickly being dissipated by heavy drugs and cancer-causing depleted uranium rounds in every weapon. They will not be a force to be reckoned with much longer ... which just leaves the foreign mercenaries and the drones being steered by kids in Kansas. I don't expect a direct war against China, and China is most unlikely to attack anyone ... they prefer to trade.

Never underestimate your enemy ... nor overestimate the strategic capabilities of your elected representatives.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 08:02 | Link to Comment DukkButt
DukkButt's picture

Don't be too sure about China not attacking anyone. Saw an article recently about Chinese anti-ship ballistic missiles. US military type admitted that there was no defense against them, meaning our big, expensive carriers are just sitting ducks in a hot war scenario. This is a fight to the death over resources and the Chinese have the home turf advantage. They could push until the US feels they have to "show the Flag" then sink some carriers in "self defense" and shut us out of the western Pacific theater. No carriers = no force projection = all we can do is shake our fists at them and call them bad names. Much of the rest of the world is well aware of the gist of this article, if not the details, and what we are really doing with our world wide "peace keeping/war on terror". A big chunk of the world would cheer a Chinese victory against the big, bad bully (us).

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 09:52 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

They'd be silly not to develop such defensive weapons systems! But, it still doesn't mean that they'll be attacking anyone with them ... in fact, if they are going to attack anywhere, they won't be going by sea to Central Asia, or Taiwan, or South Korea, or Burma, or ............. !!

You need to turn off the grade school level of political analysis on the teevee.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 11:48 | Link to Comment Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

ICE on the Olympic Peninsula, just across the way from Seattle, took delivery of two helicopter gunships last year.  Just a brief mention in the local paper, no one asks why this police force, run by an opaque beaurocracy, needs to be equipped with these weapons.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 21:09 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

Holy shit.  I wonder if a generation of kids raised on video game killing would be willing (as I think we're wondering) to use them on their own citizens . . . they sure as hell can't need to fight back all the illegal Canadian immigrants, right?

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 07:02 | Link to Comment Betty Swallsack
Betty Swallsack's picture

"How does a government fund such a huge overseas operation when they don't have the money - or oil suppliers refuse to take any more bogus paper for their oil?"

Interesting question.  These guys say that oil shortages, insecurity of supply and price volatility will destabilise economic, political and social activity within five years.

http://peakoiltaskforce.net/

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 02:15 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

We have plenty of energy here. We are Saudi's of coal, gas, oil shale ($13 bbl to extract)

Rings true enough, but not clear why TPTB would shut our production down here for a hoax if oil is really that  precious. Why spend years fighting wars on the other side of the globe?

Easier to black-op the enviro-nazis in our backyard and turn the propaganda around 180 degrees to use what is already available. 

Or, just go a little deeper and see about abiogenic oil and give them all the finger

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 04:22 | Link to Comment Confused
Confused's picture

The thing that I find strange is peak oil. If the controlling families of the oil cartel new that peak oil was at hand, wouldn't they be looking for an alternative to maintain their position of power? Sure they could milk the current oil reserves, but wouldn't this mean that once it stopped flowing they would need a quick alternative? 

 

Sorry if that was dumb. Great article. 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 07:48 | Link to Comment Mr Vepr Vyatskie
Mr Vepr Vyatskie's picture

They have had the tech for decades. Like you said they have to milk the cow dry first, and that isn't limited to just the wealth in the form of money they get, but all the power and all the positions of strength that come along with it. The whole planet has an interest in alternate forms of energy, it's just that TPTB are on a different schedual than the overwhelming majority of the rest of the global population.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 08:04 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Staying at the top means staying at the top, nothing more.

No matter how high the top is.

Useless to seek alternatives. You never win a race by running it before it starts.

When oil peak reality strikes, new 'solutions' (better or worse) will kick in, a consensus will appear and at this moment only, people in power will bother working to stay at the top by getting the lion's share of the consensual solution.

It usually happens this way. Check the e economy and stuff. Supposedly, it was to shake the old establishment, changing the deal in power. Yep, a few frontrunners get rich but the old ones simply wait for the right moment to move in.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 07:05 | Link to Comment Betty Swallsack
Betty Swallsack's picture

"Or, just go a little deeper and see about abiogenic oil and give them all the finger"

 

Oh great.  Another that thinks the planet has a creamy nougat oil-filled center.  Pffft!  Where do you people come from?

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 08:24 | Link to Comment snowball777
snowball777's picture

American public schools.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 11:57 | Link to Comment Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

These resources cannot be extracted without destroying both topsoil and groundwater on a vast scale.  ($13 bbl to extract) + eco hari-kiri = net loss.  And I am not even close to being an eco nazi or eco wingnut either.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 18:56 | Link to Comment Betty Swallsack
Betty Swallsack's picture

Yes.  Someone wasn't thinking of the acronym EROI again.  Only the myth of abundant energy that dwarfs Saudi Arabia.  Riiiiiiight.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 02:20 | Link to Comment QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

nationalism... some common enemy

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 02:27 | Link to Comment Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

Based on the headlines of the day, it sure looks as if the US population is being played against the Chinese population in an effort to stir up a patriotic war.

... and the international bankers, as usual, are behind it.

Can't some rogue country just nuke Basel and take off the head of the snake? Or maybe it is the IMF and not the BIS that is at the top of the chain (but I doubt it).

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 04:13 | Link to Comment DeltaDawn
DeltaDawn's picture

I just read "confessions of an economic hit man"and it made me sick what has been done in our names. We have really set our children up. The media is now trying their damnedest to separate us and divert our attention. I just unplugged my t.v.s and cancelled my service. Starve the beast. Go local and self-reliant. Also, have any of you read the theories that Obama's family has strong CIA links. May not be true but might also explain a few things.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 04:24 | Link to Comment Confused
Confused's picture

Great book. And if true, makes sense out of some things. 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 06:26 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

Hey, DeltaDawn ... congratulations on taking the red pill!

There's a lot of shit down the rabbit hole ... but it's better to know and act accordingly than to shut it out and be taken by surprise. Who knows how and when the S will HTF?!

Good plan to turn off the teevee, ignore the MSM and do some more reading of such things as the 'Confessions'. After a few weeks of that, you'll recognise the MSM propaganda (and half the trolls on this board) immediately for what it is. Just be aware that 95% of new media sites contain disinformation as well.

Local and self-reliant is good ... get out of Dodge (if you can) would be even smarter.

I've certainly come across the Obama-CIA connection. There are photos on the 'net of Obama's father arriving in Hawaii and being greeted by Obama's mother's father (who was CIA connected) at the airport ... even though he allegedly just happened to "meet" the daughter some time later while they were studying together in a known CIA-supported language school. Look it up and see for yourself.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 09:17 | Link to Comment Rick64
Rick64's picture

You should read his other books "The Secret History of the American Empire" and "Hoodwinked".

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 12:01 | Link to Comment Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Congrats on losing the TV.  Best thing in the world you could do, especially for your kids. 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 21:14 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

Very scary book.  Basically a detailed accounting of stuff that has gradually come out in bits and pieces over the years, but put all together by a guy who was actually there doing the deeds makes for a monstrously vivid picture. 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 05:06 | Link to Comment The Answer Is 42
The Answer Is 42's picture

Judging by how much stupidity gets stirred up everywhere, ZH included, whenever the topic of China is brought up, the brain wash is pretty close to completion and the war is not far off.

People's stupidity. It always rises up to the occasion and answers the call.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 06:20 | Link to Comment Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Allahu Akbar!

 

Thanks for getting this out there.

Fri, 10/22/2010 - 06:47 | Link to Comment Shylockracy
Shylockracy's picture

This is an excellent series, Mr DeGraw.

BCCI was a house of pestilence, no doubt, but it was not created ex nihilo.

The fusion between state and organized crime in the Anglo-sphere dates back to the Civil War/Glorious Revolution in England, when the money lenders of Amsterdam financed Cromwell's armies. Cromwell in return lifted in September 1655 the restrictions placed on them by Edward I in 1290, after the Kingdom nearly escaped destruction in a popular revolt against the usurers.

 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 07:32 | Link to Comment jesusonline
jesusonline's picture

I remember talking about this with a friend of mine a while ago. Basically his biggest argument against US-China conflict was: Why bomb your own factory?

Because you don't need it anymore. There's a point when you can't trade higher corporate margins for further resource depletion anymore. The future world isn't about hundreds of millions of people from developing Asia becoming the new middle class and thus fueling further consumption growth. This is a usual investment thesis and if you buy it from banks like GS - ugh, ok. 

Over time China will only speed up the process of overproduction and resource exhaustion. That's why there's that constant "war on terror" theme in Af-Pak region, that's why the tensions with Iran (China's 2nd biggest oil supplier). You need to keep the pressure on China and make sure its energy supply will not always be secure.

The ultimate prize in this game is Russia, it's resource base and strategic positioning on the world map. But first China will be dealt with.

Also, I see no point in separating scarecrows - dead and alive - like bin Laden and US in the region. Most of these mujahideens were and still are sponsored by Washington.

The CIA used BCCI to funnel millions of dollars to the fighters battling the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 08:19 | Link to Comment scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

Was there ever any films made about the whole BCCI affair?

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 08:23 | Link to Comment Shylockracy
Shylockracy's picture

Yes, "The International":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILj3HlaoOCg

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 08:31 | Link to Comment scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

ahhhh.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 08:19 | Link to Comment scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 13:53 | Link to Comment tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

very interesting but not much new material - yet for most fucktards it will be dismissed as nonsense...what a shame.

i do disagree vehemently with this remark: "Whether it was an attack by al Qaeda or a false flag covert intelligence operation to win public support and trillions of taxpayer dollars for the never-ending “War on Terror” and control of Central Asian oil is essentially a non-issue."

it is not a non-issue when american tax payers fund an intelligence agency which murders its own people - or any people for that matter. 911 was most emphatically an inside job and that is NOT a non-issue!!!

this report is only a snowflake on the tip of the iceberg.....bush signed on with the reagan campaign as vp even though he had the utmost distaste for that position and for reagan. however bush, being as satanically evil as he is, went along because he he knew that reagan was electable and planned to murder him once elected. and so it was that in march 1981 reagan was assassinated by an artichoke victim whose parents were close friends of the bushes. (john lennon was murdered by an mk-ultra agent in a replay of the murder scheme of robert kennedy.) unfortunately for bush reagan survived.

however, that did not stop bush from controlling foreign affairs. he ran iran-contra under the nose of reagan straight out of the white house. the arms for hostages deal was bush's brainchild in october 1980 which is why he was in switzerland and france during that period - rather than doing the disgusting job of campaigning.

and so bcci was just another effort to circumvent such things as the boland amendment and other restraints on the vampire squid of us intelligence. but this author is correct to note that the ruling elite have no allegiance or interest in america, americans, or "the american way of life" gag gag gag.....americans are nothing but debt and consumer slaves to the oligarchs....

i despise posting at this length but truth trumps on this issue so i will further note that bush was also involved heavily in the murder of jfk - another inside job handled by the cia on behalf of the oligarchs. the intelligence establishment must be dis-established. it is radioactive cancer.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 16:54 | Link to Comment SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Didn't BCCI finance the Paki nuke program?  

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 20:42 | Link to Comment chindit13
chindit13's picture

Where is CogDis when you need him? It might be of value for people to go back and read CogDis' long pieces on preconceived notions and seeing what one wants to see, then read this DeGraw article again. Note the manner in which DeGraw (isn't he the old Project Mayhem from Zero Hedge?) "proves" his points. He seems to use two methods: insinuation, and stating as fact what other "investigative journalists" insinuated in other articles. This article is full of dubious connections and jumped conclusions, and if one takes a critical eye to DeGraw's writing it becomes clear. Now DeGraw started out with a premise and a preconceived notion, so all of his "research" is obviously going to point to the conclusion he wants, just as most commenters here have come to the conclusion they wanted even before reading it. It would be a shame for DeGraw to go to all this trouble and NOT come to the conclusion he set out to reach. With the same style of yellow journalism exhibited by DeGraw, I believe I could prove Mr. Rogers was Satan himself and his "neighborhood" was Hell.

Still think DeGraw is "cutting edge"? Make yourself an outline and list the various demonstrated "proofs" to DeGraw's conclusions.

I would enjoy seeing this sites "Marla" put on her legal outfit and go at DeGraw's written record here, challenging the author's methodology, sourcing and conclusions. It would be a repeat of the climactic scene in My Cousin Vinny.

(On another matter, I may be mistaken, but I believe DeGraw means Mohammed Aboud al Amoudi and not "Hussein" I guess one Hadhramauti is as good as another.)

Sheeple are sheeple. Some believe everything the government says, some everything the MSM says, some everything the National Enquirer says, and some everything a conspiracy minded author says. The fact remains that when one brings a pre-conceived notion to the table, one is easily led down a bogus path, no matter who the leader is, and becomes just another sheeple.

If anyone would like a far more accurate and infinitely more entertaining look into the time and events included in DeGraw's article, get a copy of Charlie Wilson's War. Note at the end the warning given by the late great Gust Avrakotos.

Finally, as to the character assassination of the Khalid bin Mahfouz, DeGraw makes another series of false assumptions and major jumps that are illustrative of his weak style. During the time time of the events described here, I met regularly with Khalid bin Mahfouz and his family members. While in his 20's Khalid inherited the mantel of his father's bank (National Commercial Bank), which was both a major Saudi Bank and the bank to the Royal Family. Its main businesses were trade finance and construction loans. Khalid was deeply religious, had his views on the Soviet Afghan occupation, but never did I get any inkling that he would support the actions or philosophy of Osama bin Laden. That sort of viciousness was just not part of his character. Khalid was bright, liked the US (he had homes there), and was generous to a fault. Obviously Khalid knew the bin Laden family, who ran one of Saudi's largest constructions firms, and of which Osama was one of about forty brothers, and an outcast at that. Both families were from the Hadhramaut area of the former South Yemen, as is the al Amoudi family and many other major Jeddah business families. Tribal loyalties run deep, so it would be of little surprise that all did business with each other.

About the only thing DeGraw got right was that Khalid was a banker. His sister was not married to Osama bin Laden, despite the WaPo which quoted James Woolsey who later admitted his error. His "proof" that Khalid was a "major al Qaeda funder" comes from spurious evidence or no evidence at all. Yes, Khalid invested in BCCI and was a director, but DeGraw failed on his BCCI writings, too, and made what was a con man founded Ponzi scheme, that hoodwinked many people including Khalid bin Mahfouz, into something much larger than it was. Might Khalid have contributed to Islamic charities? Absolutely. Might some of those charities have had funds bled off for al Qaeda? Sure. That does not prove bin Mahfouz's guilt. Might some of the contributions to that charity have been wired through NCB? Of course. So a bank CEO is both knowledgable of and responsible for every one of the tens of thousands of wires run through his bank? If so, then that ties the Mafia to your bank, and "clearly" links your favorite teller to the Genovese Crime Family.

To use DeGraw's style, "Now that we have proven that Mrs. Blimpington, the teller at East West Federal is a Mafia shill...."

DeGraw then makes another bold jump when he decides that since Khalid had an interest in an oil company with which Tom Kean did business, then Kean was appointed to the 9/11 Commission in order to whitewash the Commission's report. Rather than journalism, I believe this sort of thing is more accurately refered to as the Kevin Bacon Game. DeGraw's book is just bad writing, and even if it makes it to hard copy print, it will be on the "steal me" table at Borders before the ink is dry.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 21:28 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

Thanks for the caution--the forward-leaning rush of the narrative does push you along with the mountainous detail occupying much of your cognitive resources, making it difficult to step back and evaluate the big picture. 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 22:49 | Link to Comment chindit13
chindit13's picture

One addition: Don't know how much play DeGraw's "work" is getting, whether he has a publisher or even an agent, but I suspect that if the bin Mahfouz heirs are in an ornery mood, DeGraw might expect a lawsuit coming his way.  Any decent editor, when seeing how slipshod the supposed research is, would probably steer clear of this book and avoid the possibility of his own lawsuit.

During the last years of his life Khalid spent a lot of time and money tracking down, refuting, and prosecuting the various claims made against him.  Had DeGraw done his homework, he would have learned that every accusation against bin Mahfouz has been disproven and retracted.  Of course, since none of that would fit the thesis that DeGraw has already decided is factual, and would force DeGraw to admit that he might have wasted a lot of time chasing a ghost or a fantasy, it is ignored.  If DeGraw is lucky, the bin Mahfouz family will ignore him.

Fri, 10/22/2010 - 08:37 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

Perhaps the online release will prove valuable in cleaning up the work.  Surely the basic theme of the work is not invalid? 

Fri, 10/22/2010 - 09:41 | Link to Comment chindit13
chindit13's picture

Can't see that there is anything to salvage from DeGraw's piece, as its basic premise is false.  He was either very lazy or very selective in his analysis, assuming that accusations equal guilt.  Regarding his accusations against Khalid bin Mahfouz, no doubt he knows much of the "guilt" was based on a French report that the French author first claimed was "commissioned by the UN Security Council".  He lied, and admitted he lied.  His report was prepared for some survivors of 9/11 victims who needed a deep pocketed Moslem and Saudi to sue for civil damages.  Khalid fit the bill because he was rich, had been an absentee director of scandal ridden BCCI (courts cleared him of any wrong doing and his fine was in order to be rid of the matter and pay reparations to people for whom Khalid felt compassion), and his bank had done business with the bin Laden family, a major construction firm in a country engaged in dozens of major construction projects at that time.  DeGraw could have asked the UN and they would have told him the French author was lying, and had admitted to that fact.  He failed to do so, or if he did, he did not like the answer.  Every single allegation against Khalid bin Mahfouz---a person DeGraw needs in order to establish his grand conspiracy---has been refuted, ejudicated and laid bare for the lie and conjecture it was.  So what does that leave DeGraw?  Zip.  Put his "work" on the bottom of the bird cage.

Let's do a "DeGraw" and create our own mythic conspiracy, using the same tactics and loose connections he uses to make his argument:

Back in the days of BCCI, there was another billionaire making his name in Saudi Arabia, who was also a customer of BCCI. His name was John Latsis, a Greek shipping and construction tycoon. He used to park a huge ship down the end of Palestine Road off the Corniche in Jeddah, where one could see bevies of international flight attendants scurrying up the gangplank on weekends.

Well, it seems his son or grandson used to date Paris Hilton, which certainly puts the Hilton family under suspicion. Didn’t one of Hilton’s competitors have a hotel at Ground Zero? Of course! Marriott. Well, we’ve now got motive.

And let us not forget, now that we have proven Hilton culpability in 9/11, that Paris Hilton once did a TV show with Nicole Ritchie, daughter of Lionel Richie. Now that we have a clear link between shipping magnate John Latsis and Lionel Ritchie, can any of us be surprised that the name of Ritchie’s first band was “The Commodores”.

See how it works?

I would guess that the biggest response DeGraw is going to get might be that promotion of his "work" gets Zero Hedge sued.  That would be a shame.

Now before the peanut gallery decides I'm a paid disinformant. the reason I am writing this stuff is two fold.  First, Americans have enough problems and enough criminals to pursue without clouding the real issues, and propagating the dumbing down of the country by promoting drivel like what DeGraw writes.  Second, I happen to have liked Khalid bin Mahfouz.  He was bright, had a wry sense of humor, great concern for his fellow man, and might have died because of the stress related to trying to refute all the bullshit which DeGraw is attempting to resurrect.  I am not a religious man, but I have great respect for the manner in which Khalid practiced and lived his faith. Of course DeGraw doesn't give a shit about any of this because he has a conspiracy to "prove".

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 20:42 | Link to Comment Bob
Bob's picture

Spellbinding--albeit challenging--reading!  Greatly appreciate the exhaustive in-text footnotes (links.) The time has definitely been worth my trouble--many thanks for providing such incredibly substantial work to ZH without charge. 

Looking forward to the next installment!

 

Sat, 11/13/2010 - 08:12 | Link to Comment mark456
mark456's picture

Thanks for taking the time to discuss this, I feel strongly about it and love learning more on this topic.
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