Guest Post: The Covert Origins of the Af-Pak War - The Road to World War III

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Wed, 10/20/2010 - 22:33 | 665903 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

LOL. of course, its all Bush's fault.

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:01 | 665946 lawrence1
lawrence1's picture

Stupid response, probably hasnt read 1 percent of the posting.

Unfortunately, the author´s book rings true and its hard to deny that the US public are well managed, ignorant sheep.  There is  anger now, an awareness that the system is not serving them and I hope they wil not be channeled into hating immigrants, the poor, the unemployed, etc... but probably many will.  So the field is ripe for Sarah Palin ...who has seen Russia from Alaska!  Nuke em!  Yeah!  and other idiotic solutions. Default on Chinese bonds!  Send in the Marines!  FUCKED UP DUMMED DOWN OBESE PROTOPLASM..

¨From every BVD let freedom ring!¨(Cummings)

 

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:35 | 666007 Rasna
Rasna's picture

I'm not going to get into it here, but these are consistent remarks from NOTW777... Everyone is free to express their opinion, but to consistently hold onto the spoon fed Faux News talking points causes him/her to completely miss the bigger picture.

All I can say is that the Bush Administration:

  1. Brought us "leagalized torture"
  2. Consistently shredded the Constitution
  3. Pushed through (With the help of the Rethug Senate majority - 51 votes) the unfunded/unpaid for tax cuts to the top 1% (NOTW may be in this group, but I doubt it)
  4. Lied us into a costly - lives and treasure - war in Iraq.
  5. Oversaw the loss of many of the constitutional freedoms that we took for granted.

I could go on... On the other side, O is continuing and in some instances going further than the Bush policies... In closing, we can thank Clinton for NAFTA, GATT and the WTO whic put our trade policies into the dumper, put the stake through the heart of American manufacturing and sent thousands of American jobs over seas.

Again, put down the bright shiny objects that the MSM and right wing talk shows feed you, take a look around without the blinders and do some critical thinking...

This is not about us vs them, that's propaganda that most swallow all too easily... This is about saving ourselves and saving America.

NOTW, where were you while all of this was happening?

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:56 | 666034 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

Alan Greenspan (born March 6, 1926) is an American economist who served as Chairman of the Federal Reserve of the United States from 1987 to 2006. He currently works as a private advisor and provides consulting for firms through his company, Greenspan Associates LLC. First appointed Federal Reserve chairman by President Ronald Reagan in August 1987, he was reappointed at successive four-year intervals until retiring on January 31, 2006 after the second-longest tenure in the position

Is this relevant to to conversation?

Where does the power lie? Democrat or republican? 

 

We need to get past the donkey or elephant syndrome and find who holds the feed bucket.

 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 02:21 | 666196 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"Where does the power lie? Democrat or republican?"

You're not even close! (Hint: look outside your borders).

An astoundingly frank and accurate article -- including the conclusions, unfortunately. 5-stars!

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 08:10 | 666313 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

+++ 1000.  Its true, its so true.  This whole article is manutia for the masses to consume. It really means nothing.  This smoke screen is put up to confuse and to obviscate and frankly  I learned a long time ago, not to get lost in the manutia. Or as soneone said one time, let us cut the root, and not the limbs. These players are pawns in the big game. Who is the king and who is the queen. That is all I am concerned with. I am now going to waste some time and read this piece. But you are right. It is all a big dog and pony show and many will come away after reading this and think that they now know the real reasons things happen, but they won't. If this guy knew real truth, number 1, there is not a publishing company in this land that would publish it. For you see, all of these "facts" were cleared by the powers that be, shall we say , before it was even considered for publication. So I can dance the dance, and say hello to Al Quaeda and watch the puppets such as Bin Laden (whoever that is and if he ever existed) on the stage and be entertained. Meanwhile Rome is burning and nobody is doing anything about it.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 09:29 | 666468 spartan117
spartan117's picture

+300 million or so

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:55 | 666122 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You aren't real smart are you?  If that is all you got from this article then you are somewhat less than intelligent.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 01:00 | 666127 tyler
tyler's picture

To me the first comment is extremely disturbing because the person who wrote it obviously is blinded by partisan ideology even after facts are presented.  There are tens of millions just like him who constantly whine about people blaming bush but make a living attacking obama.  One day my friend you may start questioning everyone and everything you hear if you are so lucky but you knuckle draggers don't seem capable. 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 02:55 | 666213 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

the person who wrote it obviously is blinded by partisan ideology even after facts are presented.

 

 

Blinded? I dont know. Probably aware of a certain reality. In the west, somehow, the project was to make struggle over power less determining of people's life.

It might be a total failure

This guy does not oppose the actions led by the US government. He wants to be part of the gang that crops the benefits of the actions. Joining a political side is the way. It matters most for him to be in charge. Being in charge determines who wins and who loses. He does not oppose democrats per se but because democrats can challenge for the control of the state apparatus. They are a rival gang.

This kind of people can never condemn the actions. They are only able to condemn people who reap benefits from the actions. In their mind, the biggest crime is to steal that position of being in charge from them.

Blinded? No. Determined to struggle over the state apparatus. Because it is what is going to make a difference. Being in power or not.

 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 03:32 | 666221 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

Don't be to concerned.

The article posted @ 19:28 elicited the Jackass'

canned response @ 19:33.

The dolt didn't even read the entire article, just wanted to be

adolescently first with a Jackass remark.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 06:47 | 666265 Betty Swallsack
Betty Swallsack's picture

"There are tens of millions just like him who constantly whine about people blaming bush but make a living attacking obama."

....who is continuing the very same policies.  It is why there is no left/right paradigm.  It is a false dichotomy. There are not two parties, but only one that serves the interests of corporations and banksters, and is ensuring that what is left of the middle-class goes the way of (insert extinct species here).  You, 'tyler', seem to be in defense of Obummer thinking that he is any different than his predecessor.  The illusion has washed over you.  He's a puppet.  Just as Bush was. 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 08:19 | 666326 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Its true. They are all controlled and parties do not matter.

 

Let us not forget why we are in these wars in the first place. Because of 911. We were lied to and we continue to be lied to and here it is almost ten years later and still we fight wars that never end for nothing. We kill and bother innocent people for nothing , people that never had anything to do with 911.  And when someone says too much or continues to be a problem, suddenly they die .....

 

Mysterious deaths of witnesses

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvay28lZiHU&NR=1&feature=fvwp

 

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 22:52 | 665932 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

BOJ shot a load

Is this just a pre-cursor? It seems BOJ acts before everyone else everytime.

Did the chicken come before the egg? I can't figure this out.

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:44 | 666016 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

International date line?  Just sayin'.  Didn't last too long for them though did it?

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:48 | 666027 knukles
knukles's picture

You've left the rooster out of the equation.  Type III error.  Terminate.

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:00 | 665945 bullandbearwise
bullandbearwise's picture

Yawn. Had Israel never been conceived, this entire region would still be eating sand, merrily selling oil to the west with nary a whimper as they did in the 1930s. It is the Israeli need to keep stirring the pot that riled these rag-heads up to fly planes into buildings.

Nothing new here - the U.S. and Britain poured this cast in 1948 and we get to live with it for eternity. Beats the German solution...

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:09 | 666053 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

"the voter."  does it ever change?

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 08:27 | 666348 Rollerball
Rollerball's picture

That dog won't hunt.  Charlie don't surf and rag-heads don't fly.   

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:00 | 665947 onlooker
onlooker's picture

Do we send our children to die, for what again?

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:03 | 665952 MountainMan
MountainMan's picture

reminds me of how they feedom fighters were portraied in Rambo 3...freedom loving patriots...

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:04 | 665953 MountainMan
MountainMan's picture

sorry for the typo..I'm drunk on scotch...

 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:10 | 666055 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

really?  what brand?

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:13 | 665967 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

The ultimate solution. Starve them. Stop shopping and convert all your savings into useful things and wealth preserving commodities and make sure that you enjoy life in the meanwhile.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:12 | 666057 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

no, no, no.  You "send them Burger King" and "cable tv with free internet porn."  they'll be so couch potatoed they will bow down to us as though we were Gods from Mars AND Venus.

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:13 | 665969 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

50 Percent of the US Military will be Robotic By 2015

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:17 | 665975 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Is a military needed when one country has enough nukes to wipeout all life on our planet (a few countries have this capability)?

Do you really think a military is needed?

A military is only needed for policing at our point.

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:22 | 665983 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Well you can't nuke all the dogs just because some of 'em have fleas.

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:38 | 665986 michigan independant
michigan independant's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMV5Y2e7c2E

Coming soon

http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/node/219991

82 to 95 percent of Sudan's oil -- the lifeblood of the Bashir regime -- lies in South Sudan, much of it along the unresolved border between the two halves.  

http://www.sudantribune.com/spip.php?page=imprimable&id_article=16845

"We shall never hand Darfur over to international forces which will never enjoy being in the region that will become their graveyard," Bashir was quoted as telling a rally at Zeribah in North Kordofan, central Sudan.

An unpublished United Nations report saying Chinese bullets were used in attacks on peacekeeping troops in the Darfur region of Sudan is an "attack" on China and shouldn't be made public, a Chinese diplomat said.

Yang Tao said the allegation that Chinese ammunition was used by Darfur militias, suggesting a possible violation of the UN arms embargo on the region, was no more than a "guess" and that only "proven scientific, independent, objective views" should be included in such reports.

"It is an attack on China," Yang said in an interview.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/china-wants-un-report-on-chinese-ammunition-in-darfur-blocked-20101021-16v9a.html

October 21, 2010 - 2:01PM

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:26 | 665990 zen0
zen0's picture

WORLD WAR III........!!!!!!!!!

 

Its always gonna be WW3. Just because that is the next one in line, if there is one.

simple solutions. Get out of Mid East oil. Bring home the troops. Invest in alternative energy and domestic reserves.

 

I wonder what the hold-up is? Parties interested in status quo maybe? With lots of oil money?

 

Americans have to accept they are just another country before anything will improve. If that doesn't happen, forget about it.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:07 | 666046 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Pulling out of the Middle East militarily means applying the same forces to ensure the continued free trade of oil and much else within our own hemisphere.   

The Europeans and Asians consume most of the oil out of the Persian gulf, not the U.S.    The price of the oil the U.S. buys comes from there, but not the oil itself, if you get my drift.   The parties the most immediately and direly screwed by U.S. isolationism would be its "allies" such as Europe and Japan, because they have no means of protecting the sea lanes and security of the petro states that provide most of their oil.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 08:21 | 666331 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Sir, we are not in the middle east because of oil. Please.....

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 01:12 | 666135 trgfunds
trgfunds's picture

Simple solutions? I love responses like this because they totally overlook one simple glaring fact. THEY (globalists, elites, TPTB) DO NOT want the same things you want. It's like telling a serial murderer "hey, simple solution, just don't kill anyone" with the pretense that they have the same logic, ideas, thought processes, goals, and level of reasoning that you do. (And then when they keep killing, telling them again) This is the problem. Everyone in America is divided and conquered into debating what the solutions are when the solutions aren't what matters here. Any sane person can come up with solutions to any of this crap. But it's like having an assembly line that makes a broken product, then fixing the product afterward and never questioning the first or second stage of production that causes the problem. The end result is exactly where they want you to focus. The people in power do not have the same goals you do. There is and has been a WAR being conducted now for quite some time. Many have called it the "quiet war" using "silent weapons". Their enemy is YOU. Their weapons are the education, media, legal, financial, medical, psychological, and other systems. The elites speak a completely different language and see you literally as an animal. Start by completely and totally throwing out any and all paradigms you currently subscribe to. Like, there ARE no countries. Everything you know about anything is a lie. etc. etc. etc. When people do this, only then will there be a true awakening.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 12:02 | 666938 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"Everything you know about anything is a lie. etc. etc."

I totally agree with everything you said.  We are cattle to be milked.  And the first lie we need to dispel is that the US is a "representative democracy" or "republic."  An apathetic, ignorant, propagandized citizenry represents nothing more than an idiocracy and to further secure the corrupt status quo, the idiocracy is only presented with candidates vetted by the system.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 02:45 | 666206 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Roman numerals are so 20th century. Here in the future we leave room for patching our fuck-ups. Thus, it shall be WW 3.01

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:30 | 665995 Weimar Ben Bernanke
Weimar Ben Bernanke's picture

Didn't a general warned us about wars in mainland Asia? If there is a ground war the theaters will be in Burma and Vietnam. A ground war with China would be a messy stalemate. I cannot see a scenario how war with the US and China begin. If China attacks Taiwan it would be costly. From what I understand China does not have a power projection from outside its borders yet. China is not a threat. This myth is drawn up by cold warriors neo cons who want a new enemy. Russia is a shell of its former self. Pakistan is what worries me. A ground war in Pakistan would make Vietnam,the Pennisular War look like a water gun fight. Occupying a large population lake that is a nightmare. if Pakistan collapse,and we would have to go in there it will be a disaster waiting to happen.

From my perspective I see a major regional war between Iran vs Saudi Arabia in Iraq. The Sauds bought new toys from us and they want to use it against Iran. Iran has the proxies to unleash hell on the mideast while the Sauds will have the latest tech to fight. This decade is going to be very interesting and chaotic  geopolitically speaking. Wonder what my fellow Zero Hedge comrades forecast for this decade?

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:36 | 666015 michigan independant
michigan independant's picture

Dafur Vote Soon.

attacks on peacekeeping troops in the Darfur region of Sudan is an "attack" on China and shouldn't be made public, a Chinese diplomat said.

http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2010/sc10056.doc.htm

Noting with deep concern the increase in violence and rising inter-tribal fighting in Darfur, the Security Council this afternoon

The U.N. has a mounted a diplomatic effort to avoid bloodshed, and it has 10,000 peacekeepers already deployed to implement the 2005 peace agreement, which calls for the Jan. 9 referendum that would determine whether the south remains part of Sudan or secedes.

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:42 | 666014 the rookie cynic
the rookie cynic's picture

1) ZH needs more articles like this that bring important geopolitical and MIC perspectives to bear on economic matters.

2) I want to hear what B9K9 has to say about this.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:45 | 666104 SDRII
SDRII's picture

the author left out discussion of the ISI pipeline and how India dropped out of the venture in spitting distance of the nuke deal with the US. Article is spot on.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 03:27 | 666220 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Or Geopol

Wed, 10/20/2010 - 23:53 | 666030 knukles
knukles's picture

Y'all notice how the MSM, everybody has blithely taken the emergence of the No Longer any War on Terror morphing into the AfPak war without any questioning whatsoever.

Sheeple Deluxe.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:14 | 666058 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

Ooh, a fresh pitcher of Kool-aid! Yum.

If you can still tolerate watching the MSM, you're a better man than I, Gunga Din. Those lying sacks of shit disgust me to the point of rage. Among other things.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 11:37 | 666847 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

 

October 19, 2010

It's Rainy and Cool. I'm Not Dead.

And that's not the end of the good news.

There's an election of monumental importance in just two weeks. Once again, the always knowledgeable and perceptive American public will make known their great unhappiness with the manner of rule oozing out of Washington, D.C. An astonishing change will occur! Once again, we shall bear witness to the inexpressible glories of responsive democracy in action! We are incredibly fortunate to live in a time of such miracles. You should offer your grateful thanks several times a day, at a minimum.

Aw, c'mon. You don't think I believe that shit, do you? I said I'm not dead. And even if I were, I still wouldn't believe that shit. But I must acknowledge my boundless admiration for the reams of colossally ignorant and/or deliberately manipulative commentary telling us over and over and over again how significant and historic this election will be. How so many people can repeat these endless inanities so often without vomiting or self-immolating as the direct result of their measureless self-loathing is a considerable source of wonder to me. And all this about an election which will alter absolutely nothing of consequence.

 

Silber FTW

http://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/

Hmm, italics didn't work quite right...above is all italicised quote( meant to be anyway)

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 12:06 | 666950 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

"And all this about an election which will alter absolutely nothing of consequence."

Exactly and as usual. The perpetual ping-pong game with the ignorant, propagandized voters bouncing back and forth between two equally corrupt and OWNED major parties in a completely rigged system.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 06:35 | 666260 Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

"NATO" is killing Pak soldiers and Pakistanis are blowing up "NATO" supply convoys.  At what point does this qualify as war between "NATO" and Pak?  

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 00:21 | 666070 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

Let me do a rewrite.  "Democrats take power.  Begin bombing the homeland of Pakistan with aerial drones "as friends are wont to do."  We start giving free money to ourselves causing Pakistan to no longer have bread.  (the real kind.)  God then does a "pig pile" and "makes 10 million Paki's homeless."  Then we come to them "as their only friend"  which in the sense of "only" also happens to be true to demand the world do something, which they do not.  Finally, in their...rage they....hold a few fuel trucks hostage and then...blow them up.  And of course "they continue to actually attempt to kill the only friend they have in the world on that friend's soil." this makes them stand out to "their only friend in the world" and "not as friend."  so as good friends "we give them a REAL BIG HUG" in the form of a "peace conference."  Oh, yeahh.  What's that ad say?  "Lovin' it"?  Oh, yeah.  VERY MUCH SO.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 21:29 | 668678 Bob
Bob's picture

References to ZH are popping up everywhere in the MSM lately.  Reminds me of HuffPo in its early days--in that respect only, of course!  I saw that article yesterday and thought that the handling of ZH was pretty respectful, even though ZH served as something of a foil. 

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 01:40 | 666167 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

I see a timing problem here. On the domestic front, the US could be facing riots, secession of states, hyperinflation, and/or default on debt/currency failure.

How does a government fund such a huge overseas operation when they don't have the money - or oil suppliers refuse to take any more bogus paper for their oil?

How does a government quell riots or stop state secession when most of the armed services are deployed overseas?

If the government doesn't time it "just right", failure on multiple fronts is possible - and I just don't believe these numb nuts are capable of orchestrating all that needs to be done, with the precision timing that will be required. In fact, failure on multiple fronts is the most likely outcome, IMO.

Thu, 10/21/2010 - 02:32 | 666201 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

All money is fiction created by those in power. The governments are the face of that power, if not the brain or the embodiment. They have all the money they can create.

The current situation has been manufactured by the banks to make you think that there is a monetary crisis. There is not. It is business as usual for the central banking empire and its local distributors.

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