Guest Post: Is The Debt Problem As Bad As They Say

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Thu, 06/09/2011 - 12:11 | 1354706 MonsterZero
MonsterZero's picture

We'll do it better next time, I promise!

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 13:06 | 1354896 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

Answer to the question is its much worse.

A little off topic but 200,000 Citi bank accounts were hacked.... while 48% of Amerikans think a great depression is coming....  and Tepco stock is being obliterated today which means that thousands of american retirement accounts havee been cleaned out...

http://fiatsfire.blogspot.com/2011/06/thinking-thursday-cnn-poll-shows-4...

Tin foil hats please!!!!

 

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 14:40 | 1355240 Republi-Ken
Republi-Ken's picture

Is that SAME 48% who do not know Republicans won the 2010 Election

and now control Congress and are now responsible for JOBS JOBS JOBS?

48% of Americans are either:  

A) REALLY FUCKING STUPID

B) TOO BUSY WITH AMERICAN IDOL to pay attention to debt

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 16:07 | 1355508 Reese Bobby
Reese Bobby's picture

How you been, "A)"?

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 17:06 | 1355749 samslaught
samslaught's picture

Not a big fan of Republicans but I am a fan of facts.  Republicans control the house, Democrats control the executive branch, and although nobody has a super majority in the senate I think there are currently 51 Democrats, 47 Republicans and 2 Independents.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 15:09 | 1355335 CPL
CPL's picture

the US government is either looking at substantially higher borrowing costs, substantially higher inflation, or both.

When in doubt with money...go with worst case in terms of money.  I terms of government you take worst case then amplify it by 4.  Mainly because they are lying sacs of shit.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 00:59 | 1357007 Richardk888
Richardk888's picture

Time for the govenment to take over and monitor the internet in the name of safety : (

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 12:14 | 1354716 rcintc
rcintc's picture

Spot on Simon Black

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 12:17 | 1354727 Shocker
Shocker's picture

+1

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 12:42 | 1354813 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Black is the dark face of reality...but he'll be back with more dark side logic...black is black...and alas its not beautiful!

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 13:00 | 1354865 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Clever sentence!!       Milestones

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 13:30 | 1354972 TruthInSunshine
Thu, 06/09/2011 - 13:03 | 1354871 Blotsky
Blotsky's picture

Hahaha! Watch this video, and then think of what Uncle Sam is doing to the economy!

 King George III, eat your heart out! Uncle Sam got ya beat!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h44LIiaZhHE

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 12:58 | 1354849 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

His analysis is always spot on, but his 'solution' is laughable.  Move out of the US, renounce citizenship, and go where exactly?  Give me a break.  There is no better place than the US.  This is the last stand.  The place where your back is against the wall.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 13:25 | 1354952 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

...with quicksand under your feet..   your move 

 

 

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 14:16 | 1355133 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Let me know of someplace better.  Please...

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 15:32 | 1355398 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Chile, Switzerland, Australia if you can get the work permits, Colombia (surprisingly). Read Simon Black for more suggestions.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 13:37 | 1354985 ibjamming
ibjamming's picture

I agree...if it get's bad here...it will be worse somewhere else.

 

I'm not talking about in the inner city...THAT will be bad!  I'm talking a place in the country, a few acres, a place you can be pretty self sufficient on.  I think a place in the country...in the US...is better than being a FOREIGNER somewhere else when TSHTF.  Just my opinion...and my situation.  There will be LOTS of dead in the first 6 months...then it will level out at a sustainable level.

Unless...we go to war for ME oil and kick the can down the road another 20 years or until we start running low on CHEAP oil.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 13:57 | 1355066 TapperIsTicked
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Can anyone tell me how to skin a corn and plant a chicken?

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 14:29 | 1355185 Slipmeanother
Slipmeanother's picture

Thats easy just pluck the corn and bury the chicken

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 15:43 | 1355438 trav7777
trav7777's picture

are you not characterized as a foreigner in the US even now?

our history is systematically denigrated by whoever dictates the mass media message

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 13:43 | 1355001 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

I'm not going anywhere.  The banksters are the ones that need to be packing.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 13:44 | 1355012 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Right.  I'd stay and fight but, quite frankly, odds are clearly against me and stacking up ever more so.  I can't do this alone, and neither can the thousands of others like me who are trapped in this nightmare from which we can't wake.

Who am I supposed to rely upon for back-up?  My fucking neighbors to the left of me, the wife having a nice cushy corporate executive job in the health "care" industry and the husband having a cushy job teaching useless culinary skills to a generation of hopeful chefs who will only graduate to disappointment and destitution?  My fucking neighbors to the right of me, who are Chinese and know nothing but obedience to the State?  I talked to just about every neighbor up and down my block and warned them of what's to come, but most either want to just pretend that they didn't hear me or perhap they think I'm a pleasant but deranged individual.

I'm not a stupid man.  There's a time to fight and there's a time to run.  I know when to run.

The men (frauds all of them) who founded this nation were of wealth and means.  They were the elites of society in their day.  The elites of our society are content to thrive at the expense of the rest of us, as long as they get to be near the top of the pyramid.  I'm supposed to mount resistance in this kind of environment?  Give me a fucking break.

So where to go?  Anywhere but here.  At least I know what I'll be signing up for in advance, rather than being given the bait and switch from birth.  I'll take the (alleged) violence of Mexico, the socialism of Canada, or the despotism of Syria before I commit to staying in this continental cesspool of iniquity.

Goodbye, America, you decrepit piece of shit.  And good riddance to those who will be left behind.  Whatever happens to you will be your own damn fault.

I am Chumbawamba.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 14:01 | 1355070 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

"Anywhere but here"? Not too sure about that, but otherwise I'm with you, Chumba.  I spent the winter in Mexico. Not Ciudad Juarez, not the D.F., not even Oaxaca. I spent it in Baja California--everywhere from Ensenada all the way down to Puerto San Carlos and back. There was no crime, no narcothugs in sight, no nothing except the blue Pacific and all the ceviche and huachinanga and Pollo al Carbon I could eat, and 10 pesos (80 cents) for a Negra Modelo.  The one little quirk you have to get used to is the armored hummers that roll by now and then with machine gun at the ready.

One quiet little fishing town I stayed in was so tranquil the landlady (a disaffected Canadianette from BC) left all her cabanas unlocked, with the keys on the table by the door. "There's zero crime here, and everyone knows everyone."  It felt just like my childhood in the 1950s.

It would be gratuitous to describe the fishing. And the total population of the state of Baja Cali Sur is barely equal to Fresno, CA.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 14:25 | 1355170 Transformer
Transformer's picture

And what will it be like in baja when the world financial system has collapsed, and hatred for all things American runs rampant?  Will Americans on foreign soil who have fled there with whatever wealth they have be looked at as good neighbors, or the scumbags who did in the world trying to escape with their wealth and live like kings in another country?  What will you do when the Hummer with the machine gun on top comes looking for you?

I can fully agree that one might be able to integrate in with the locals, it's the armored Hummer that bothers me.  And they are everywhere, the military industrial complex has seen to that.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 18:28 | 1356028 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

Dude, if you came to my country, I'd welcome you with open arms. It's not American people I despise, you are (mostly - as there are bad apples everywhere) good, decent people. It's scumbags like Dimon, Blankfein, Geitner et al that need to watch their backs.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 23:02 | 1356841 Imminent Crucible
Imminent Crucible's picture

"when the Hummer with the machine gun on top comes looking for you?"

The voice of ignorance compounded with the Dark Side. I can see you haven't spent much time in Mexico, particularly B.C.   What you need to know is that there are already hundreds of thousands of Americans living comfortably in Mexico--Guadalajara alone has between 30,000 and 40,000 US expats living there.

The Mexican govt and the local people welcome them because a) they spend money and b) they don't take jobs from Mexicans. The US State Dept has been after the Mexican govt for years to keep tabs on these people, to make them return every 180 days to renew their FMT's, etc, but the Mexican govt does nothing. They say, "Why should we interfere with these people? Most of them are retired, they make no trouble, they spend their SS checks here and hire poor Mexicans to cook and clean and keep the house up. It's not our problem--do your own damn policing."

The hummer is there to put the narcos on notice that the town still belongs to the legal thieves, not the illegal ones.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 14:15 | 1355122 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Is that the same Canada and Mexico I'm thinking about?  The two places where it's ALREADY illegal to own a handgun?  Good choice...   /sarcasm

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 14:22 | 1355146 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

So you dont advise me to move back home? Im in the UK currently and finding the cost of living unbearable. At least things are relatively cheap in the US.    Everythings about finding a balance. Liberty is the biggest deal of course  but where is true Liberty to be found? I dont see it in Europe and i dont really see it in South or Central America.  I hear you loud and clear and your frustrations are shared by the majority here , but what to do? Id love to run but it has to be somewhere that offers the right balance between liberty and cost of living.  We are all searching for the best standard of living but i happen to think that peaked globally a few years ago. Like fiat , its a relative game. Its spread might be closing from the wides but the US is still the best looking ugly sister for many with a choice.

Fri, 06/10/2011 - 02:46 | 1357087 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

You make a good point. The other problem is even if you think there is some libertarian nirvana somewhere, the presence of the U.S. keeps many of these places free. Taiwan would be the newest Chinese province without the USA.

In my theoretical world the USA divides into red and blue. The red goes not Republican but libertarian very similar to its foundation. One has to take some sort of oath of liberty including not denying it to his fellow man. Blue states are free to go full bore collectivist with the much smarter collectivists we have raised here in the USA. They are never allowed to immigrate to red states without taking the oath. For safety they are never allowed to vote.

It's kind of like Californians who vote insane crap for their state. Wreck it, then move on to other states when its intolerable to wreck them (AZ, CO, NM, etc.) You cannot allow idiotic blue state types to become a political virus.

Many of us in the libertarian camps would be happy to let all the statists go somewhere and try to achieve their social justice collectivist dream voluntarily. However, they always insist on inflicting it on everyone else. It is a necessity because they know in the end their state fails without tax mules to fund and empower it. That's why under all their "caring" they are very intolerant and have claws and teeth.

I think the answer is to run internally into different parts of the U.S. that will resist the final socialist impulses. Looks for states with guts that resist the Feds consistently.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 15:41 | 1355442 Hooter Shaker
Hooter Shaker's picture

Don't let the door hit you in the ass.  I'm standing my ground even if I have to do it alone.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 15:39 | 1355421 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

I am in total agreement with you there is no place left to run too, so make a stand here when they come through the door for you open fire and do not stop until they are all dead.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 17:01 | 1355716 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Renouncing citizenship is really only an option for those with dual citizenship anyway, and even then it is one of the most foolish things a person can do, because you will never ever get it back, and even getting a visitors visa after that is virtually unheard of.  If you do it you should know with no doubt it cannot ever be reversed.  Also, you can only renounce US citizenship from a foreign country.  You can't be in the US or on it's soil anywhere, it would not be valid.  If you take up residency in another nation and renounce citizenship you better know that you have citizenship somewhere else because going off to live in Belize or Costa Rica is not the same thing as being a citizen there. 

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 17:40 | 1355883 Rational Psycho
Rational Psycho's picture

I'm making my stand at sea. Buyin a sailboat, water purifier, fishing equipment and dehydrated food. I plan on island hopping the Bahamas and Caribbean while the US falls apart.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 12:18 | 1354717 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Most of those 'national assets' have already been pledged as collateral over decades for Chinese loans.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 12:30 | 1354747 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

Predictive Programming BITCHEZ!!! 

Hoover Dam in a yard sale -- Yosemite in the pawn shop.

<sarc> Awesome. </sarc>

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 12:44 | 1354800 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Yeah, like Treasuries?

From Bill Buckler at The Privateer:

A “Balancing Act” At The Fed:
Mr Bernanke and his colleagues at the Fed are reluctantly being forced to talk more and more about what their plans are when the official end of their “$US 600 Billion” QE2 hits on June 30. In the first place, QE2 is not $US 600 Billion or double the official level of QE1. It is $US 900 Billion or triple QE1. The Fed could not have bought the $US 112-115 Billion a month in Treasury debt that they have bought without the re-investment of “income” from its balance sheet. That is what it has done.
During his first post FOMC press conference ever on April 27, Mr Bernanke made it clear that the Fed would continue with this re-investment after June 30. Happily for Mr Bernanke, the Fed has only scheduled four press conferences a year (one every second FOMC meeting). That means that Mr Bernanke will not have to front the press after the next meeting which takes place on June 21-22. The next Bernanke press conference will take place at the FOMC meeting after that, on August 9. That’s six weeks after the end of QE2 and a week after Mr Geithner’s deadline for the Treasury’s debt limit.
If Mr Bernanke can actually delay his next press conference until August 9, he will have done very well.  But as June 30 approaches, the questions about what will happen on July 1 and after are becoming ever more urgent. One Fed response which is frequently quoted is their professed desire to shrink their balance sheet back down to the $US 750-850 Billion region - its level before the GFC hit. As recently as December 2007, the balance sheet stood at “only” $US 870 Billion. The Fed has also stated that they want to get the balance sheet back to being almost exclusively Treasuries.
Today, the Fed’s balance sheet is more than three-and-a-half times the size that it was in late 2007. Treasury holdings alone are twice as big as the entire balance sheet was back then. As The Privateer has pointed out many times, the $US 925 Billion in mortgage-backed securities in the Fed’s balance sheet would be worthless if they were not there. What about the $US 1.6 TRILLION in Treasuries?

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 12:46 | 1354815 gookempucky
gookempucky's picture

To the tune of just about everything as the chicago parking meter system-most if not all toll roads-water systems-most commercial property and by the look of things most residential housing--oops almost forgat the national forest's. Have to include the rest of the world as present and future landlords and not just china. As I had said to my city council in regards to sewage bonds---when we default=no flushy the crapper.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 12:48 | 1354834 Mad Cow
Mad Cow's picture

The fraud is immense and the brainwashing is nearly complete. I know it's been said a thousand times but lets just keep on doing it. The Fed is a private entity and the USGov does not need to borrow money from foreign countries, or the Fed. It's just theater! It's all bullshit!

Spoon boy: Do not try and bend the debt. That's impossible. Instead... only try to realize the truth.
Neo: What truth?
Spoon boy: There is no debt.
Neo: There is no debt?
Spoon boy: Then you'll see, that it is not the debt that bends, it is only yourself.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 16:30 | 1354931 Bob
Bob's picture

Exactly.  It's interesting to see the Adult Thinkers roll in with their deep analyses--you'd think there were actually a viable future left for us under this crazy-like-a-fox bankster system! 

What charming idiocy.  We're looking at the same bullshit the Greeks are . . . it's a global phenomenon.  Now the useful idiots rush in to sweep up the scraps they can personally get their hands on as the bankster parade rolls on untaxed or otherwise restrained.

We must be responsible adults!  We must be responsible adults! 

Sounds like the twisted reality of chronically abused children still desperate for their abuser's love . . . at best.  I'll bend over better and longer this time, I promise! 

No "new" taxes.  Cut them taxes--keep all the productive capital flowing where it'll do the most "good."

Gotta keep that evil tool--the only one we have short of jails--outta the house.  

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/how-financial-oligarchy-replaces-democracy

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 14:59 | 1355299 James T. Kirk
James T. Kirk's picture

if therre is no debt, then the currency instantly becomes

worthless, because the frn value is based on debt.  anarchy,

anyone?

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 15:04 | 1355325 Mad Cow
Mad Cow's picture

Sorry James, the Federation is not going to work out. The Replicators are rebelling.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 15:17 | 1355354 akak
akak's picture

"The Federation", "The Replicators"?

When Sci-fi worlds collide!

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 15:17 | 1355358 Mad Cow
Thu, 06/09/2011 - 15:26 | 1355388 akak
akak's picture

Of course, MadCow --- I forgot about the Star Trek replicators!

Your inference of sentient replicators immediately suggested to me a reference to those of the "Stargate: Atlantis" series.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 15:37 | 1355400 Mad Cow
Mad Cow's picture

Stargate is a great series, even though they blatantly borrowed from other sci-fi, like many other sci-fi, I think that was part of the charm.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 13:21 | 1354943 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

Most sovereign "assets" are more like boat anchors than assets.

For example: Freeways are a sunk cost, not an asset. The asphalt and cement have zero market value once in place, and those materials are nearly impossible to use for anything else once deployed. The roadway thus created does have value as passage, but the value can only be extracted via regressive rents and tolls on users. A freeway's intrinsic value is to broader society as it facilitates commerce and movement, but these are hard to measure and the costs of annual maintenance fall to the state while profits go to individuals including corporations.

And miss a single year in maintenance and the whole thing goes to Hell. Fail to support the domestic auto industry and the whole thing goes to Hell. Fail to secure sources of affordable fuel for the fleet and the whole thing goes to Hell. You get the idea. The costs to keep the "asset" working are mind boggling and politically complex.

And that's just freeways. You can make the same case for airports, navigable waters, pipelines and flood control systems. And why stop with infrastructure? Cities are going bankrupt trying to keep themselves from falling into riots and ruin.

We have a lot of stuff, but it's not free and the value is difficult to extract. We cannot get rid of it, we can only struggle to maintain it. And if we ever let it go we'll never again have the funds, labor force and natural resources to get it back.

This is called being owned by your possessions.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 14:04 | 1355086 Crabshack
Crabshack's picture

Exactly correct as usual big cat, but when you own an asset you can charge a "toll" for its use.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 12:15 | 1354719 nercnumber
nercnumber's picture

The other night one of the other dad's at a dinner said this exact thing, that the US has much more assets than debt.  I couldn't argue otherwise.  This is perfect.

Thu, 06/09/2011 - 13:03 | 1354876 bigdawg
bigdawg's picture

Yeah, I heard a guy on the radio the other day stating the same thing...except he also included coal, oil, real estate, etc...not just US govt. owned assets.  So yeah, there are some assholes thinking that private assets should be pledged private assets against the debt...now that's perfect.

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