Guest Post: On (Delayed) Tax Day

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Sun, 04/17/2011 - 23:46 | 1179118 nkktwotwozero
nkktwotwozero's picture

You mention Income Tax.

What about Social Security and Medicare taxes?

--

You dont mention them because if you did, it'll look like your agrument is lopsided.

Also, the income tax was originally only meant for the super-rich.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 23:47 | 1179125 suldog
suldog's picture

You mean 'game over'.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:05 | 1179146 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

On April 15th, there were 6 banks that failed, costing the deposit insurance fund a little shy of $600 million.   I have grown tired of constantly living in a state of fear.  Fukushima is a mess and might keep spewing radiation for an additional 6-9 months.  Sea turtles, dolphins and whales wash up in the Gulf of Mexico as the BP oil spill has absolutely not gone away.  So to my list of worries, I will now add that I am apparently the only "sucker" who still pays taxes.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 02:21 | 1179332 whatsinaname
whatsinaname's picture

FGB, dont forget that the FDA says the North Pacific fish are okay to eat and will not test unless given directions by the NOAA. That should put ur mind at ease.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 03:01 | 1179369 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

California just needs to break of and hang with Hawaii. Alaska can come too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZMwKPmsbWE

Fscking Kangaroos!

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 23:55 | 1179135 zen0
zen0's picture

Dude. Income tax was supposedly  instituted to pay for World War One. Seems that is one expensive war...Maybe you should step off for awhile til you get some information.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:34 | 1179198 nkktwotwozero
nkktwotwozero's picture

>Dude. Income tax was supposedly  instituted to pay for World War One.

It was instituted on the rich only.

At first. It was during the WWII and post WWII period that the tax became broad based.

For example; withholdings werent introduced until WWII.

 

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:42 | 1179210 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

We have temporary taxes in oklahoma. When they expire they spend millions advertising some stupid project to put the money towards. When it fails they spend more millions advertising another stupid project to put the money towards. This continunes ad infinitum until something is passed. It's about as temporary as a politicians delcaration to stop lying.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:47 | 1179224 nkktwotwozero
nkktwotwozero's picture

I'm not defending the Income Tax.

But it's not the only tax the Federal government collects.

And it wasnt originally meant to be collected from the "masses".

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:57 | 1179236 thedrickster
thedrickster's picture

Gee wiz, do you mean to tell me that a government...gasp...engaged in mission creep?

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:58 | 1179238 nkktwotwozero
nkktwotwozero's picture

"Blah blah blah......pleaze beliave me..."

That part of the trial was BORING!

--

Brawndo! It's got what nuclear plants crave!

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:00 | 1179240 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Good. Because income taxes on anyone, at any level, are indefensible in a free society.

An income tax is a tax on your existence. When the fruits of your labor are taken from you by force, you are a slave, by definition.

The Federal Government supported itself for almost 150 years by using excise taxes. When the american people were gradually enslaved starting in 1913, it was the end of a free society. NO MORE INCOME TAXES.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 03:43 | 1179391 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Buckaroo - thanks for your comments on this thread this evening. Spot on. Cheers! 

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 05:09 | 1179423 ExploitTheMarket
ExploitTheMarket's picture

Indeed...taxation is theft and is morally wrong...(and, of course, economically stupid).  Pro-income theft supporters always ignore this and say well, there is no correlation between economic growth and taxation to which I reply, if there is no correlation then why not raise the rate to 100% of income, then you can give everything you earn to the government, at this point they usually walk away....

Also, the amount of money the Federal gov takes in without personal and corporate income taxes is enormous, something like $1Trillion...if you can not run a government on $1Trillion something is very wrong.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 03:06 | 1179372 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

"Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program." - Milton Friedman

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 06:22 | 1179473 Pants McPants
Pants McPants's picture

....And we have Friedman to thank for the direct payroll deduction of taxes.

Thanks, Milton!

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:52 | 1179232 piceridu
piceridu's picture

16th amendment ratified on February 3, 1913

The Federal Reserve Act enacted December 23, 1913

One can not survive without the other.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:12 | 1179255 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

16th amendment ratified on February 3, 1913

Except that first part didn't happen.

http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/ratification.asp

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 07:41 | 1179551 DeMarkTrader
DeMarkTrader's picture

I don't care about the truth or veracity of the information presented on that Web site... I have no interest in debating that. What I would like to point out is that you will be laughed out of the room within 5 minutes of arriving in tax or criminal court with that defense.

 

It's what you can prove that counts. It's case law (however, improper) that holds sway there.

 

You will have to export yourself or your money off shore to have any hope of avoiding it.

Fri, 04/22/2011 - 07:34 | 1195611 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

And that's what is so fucking funny.

Like things long dead people matter to todays law. You can't prove the 16th amendment passed cause EVERYBODY IS DEAD. But you get laughed out of court because you can't prove it wasn't passed.

People gotta stop getting mind fucked.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 02:49 | 1179361 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Toll Road.

Needs maintenance, don't ya' know.

Paint, paving and asphalt, crews of 14 with 2 actually working.

Paint for the bridges at $150 per gallon.

Ooops; toll road and booths and bridges need to be rebuilt.

Somehow, we miscalculated payoff of original bond, maintenance, and "other" costs.

BTW - we are issuing a bond for the new toll road; pays 1%, and the toll will be double what the new toll is.  You don't see a problem here, do you?

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 07:56 | 1179582 iota
iota's picture

I thought the first income taxes were during the civil war?

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 07:59 | 1179596 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Income tax was instituted to insure that bankers would be paid on the national debt- a debt to be created and managed by the FED. 

The author neglects to mention that this same 5% hold over 80% of the wealth. The author also neglects to notice that much of the federal largess is blood money- spent to keep the lower classes from revolting. 

The wealthy have been getting richer, not poorer. Worse, taxes are not collected in sufficient amounts to pay the costs of their bloated government. Consequently, the difference will be made by cutting entitlements(for the lower classes) and maintaining the operations that earn them a subsidy- war, corporate loopholes and judicial favoritism.

This argument gets trotted out and put on display regularly. It is a whore. The best system would be minimum government with zero taxes and common law systems, but then, the rich would actually have to compete- instead of stealing their wealth through influence and state created rents.

The history of the world is one of a priviledged class served by a much larger worker class. One can make what ever assumptions they want about why. The only measure of civility has been noblesse oblige. We appear to be transiting away from this standard.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:02 | 1179141 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Social security and Medicare are direct transfer payments. They go from payer to recipient and as such in theory do not pay for the operation of government. Of course, during the surplus years of Social Security the excess funds were "loaned" to the government to cover day to day operations.

Everyone is taxed for these because they are in essence an insurance premium. Since everyone is a recipient then everyone has to pay. Since everyone gets a proportional benefit (roughly) you have to pay the same, i.e. rich people do not pay more for Soc. Sec. once the cap is reached because their benefit also caps out. It is similar to any other plan you buy in the private market in this regard.

So, these taxes do not change the argument. In fact, stupid politicians are about to change Soc. Sec. into welfare through means testing and uncapping the premium. It is just another rusted nail in the coffin of our collectivist society. We can congratulate all retirees on being welfare recipients. Should make us all proud.

The point is this article is valid. Democracy has been described as two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Once about half the electorate pays no taxes whatsoever they become immune to taxing anyone else. In addition, deficits are the difference between what we want now and what we are really willing to pay. So we pass the real tax with added interest to our kids and grandkids. The national debt is the sum total of our current account greed and cowardice in balancing the books. The bill will come due in time. Don't be surprised when our following generations want to burn down the retirement homes when we voted them all the bills and ourselves all the goodies.

Once we left any Constitutional restrictions on what the Federal government can do we opened pandora's box to never ending programs and income redistribution.

The socialist-collectivist state never pays its bills or delivers on its promises of prosperity and utopia. It redistributes poverty and servitude on all. It never ever works anywhere over time.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:21 | 1179175 nkktwotwozero
nkktwotwozero's picture

>Of course, during the surplus years of Social Security the excess funds were "loaned" to the government to cover day to day operations.

By the Greenspan Commission. One in the same Greenspan.

It isnt a loan if they never intended to pay it back, and it was forced.

It's a tax.

 

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:24 | 1179275 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I'm looking at my 2011 social security form. And it's a big giant piece of shit lying ass document. It's so full of shit I'd have to have a labotomy to not notice.

It's saying 4793 dollars in 1983. And that was my junior year in high school. I took 5 classes and during finals week I worked 47 hours. Because my manger was pregnant and kept sluffing responsibility off on me. I was so exhausted all the time from closing. Going to sleep at 2 am. Getting up at 6:30. Going to school. Sleeping till I went to work at 5pm that I completely burned out. I made over 7grand that year. And social security is lying out it's fucking ass. After finally blowing up at the assistant manager for cruising into work an hour late strung out crashing from a speed bender. He fired me. I couldn't work for 3 whole months because I was just too exhausted.

The IRS and united states government can't be trusted to tell one goddamn number right. They are so fucking enron it's not even funny.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:24 | 1179276 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I'm looking at my 2011 social security form. And it's a big giant piece of shit lying ass document. It's so full of shit I'd have to have a labotomy to not notice.

It's saying 4793 dollars in 1983. And that was my junior year in high school. I took 5 classes and during finals week I worked 47 hours. Because my manger was pregnant and kept sluffing responsibility off on me. I was so exhausted all the time from closing. Going to sleep at 2 am. Getting up at 6:30. Going to school. Sleeping till I went to work at 5pm that I completely burned out. I made over 7grand that year. And social security is lying out it's fucking ass. After finally blowing up at the assistant manager for cruising into work an hour late strung out crashing from a speed bender. He fired me. I couldn't work for 3 whole months because I was just too exhausted.

The IRS and united states government can't be trusted to tell one goddamn number right. They are so fucking enron it's not even funny.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 02:21 | 1179335 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The point is this article is valid. Democracy has been described as two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. Once about half the electorate pays no taxes whatsoever they become immune to taxing anyone else.

 

It is only valid the US way, that is cherrypicking to cling on a mantra.

The article jumps from a valid point, the number of people no longer paying federal income tax to voting.

Without providing a ground to show that people who are exempted from federal income tax do indeed vote.

When a representative is elected by winning 25pc of the total electorate in a bi partisan election, it implies that quite a number of people forgot to cast a vote. Of course, since in the US, a majority is only absolute when it comes to racial issues, for an election, scaling is done. If 45pc of the global electore vote, anyone collecting most than the half of that is told to rule by majority. 

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 07:20 | 1179496 poopyjim
poopyjim's picture

Without providing a ground to show that people who are exempted from federal income tax do indeed vote.

Of course they vote! What the hell else are they going to do on election day?

Oh wait, I forgot: crack.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 05:32 | 1179440 Dburn
Dburn's picture

Dick...Yeah you. Social Security and Medicare is still counted in the budget and subject to cuts. It was only when Social Security surpluses stopped in 2009 that people got all excited. All that money goes into the general fund. There is no separate checking account for it.It accounts for almost as much receipts as the Corporate and Individual taxes do.

It's a tax by another name K? Save the bullshit for other assholes outraged they have to part with one penny they stole.  

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:22 | 1179274 JR
JR's picture

Yes, the 47 percent of Americans who, infamously, owe no federal income taxes to the federal government do still pay some payroll taxes for Social Security and Medicare.

But there are millions of American households for which tax day literally is pay day; they receive more cash from the IRS than they contribute in federal income taxes and employment taxes.  IE, they are making money off federal taxes.

“The bottom 40 percent, on average, make a profit from the federal income tax, meaning they get more money in tax credits than they would otherwise owe in taxes. For those people, the government sends them a payment,” according to an AP article last April, Nearly half of US households escape fed income tax.

In short, 50 percent of people are getting something for nothing.

According to a separate analysis by the consulting firm Deloitte Tax: In recent years, credits for low- and middle-income families have grown so much that a family of four making as much as $50,000 will owe no federal income tax…as long as there are two children younger than 17.

In the past 40 years, Washington has passed a series of laws, such as the Earned Income Tax Credit and the child tax credit, that send money to lower- and middle-income families through the tax system.

Obama's Making Work Pay credit provides as much as $800 to couples and $400 to individuals. The expanded child tax credit provides $1,000 for each child under 17. The Earned Income Tax Credit provides up to $5,657 to low-income families with at least three children.

Of course all still can vote on expensive programs to which they won't contribute, whether it's foreign wars or domestic entitlements.

 (A caller on the Tom Sullivan radio call-in this week mentioned an Adoption Tax Credit totaling $12,150 per adopted child (per child not per year)—making his total pay check from the IRS this year $21,000, based on a family of four with two newly adopted children and an income of $50,000 - a commendable program but through the IRS?  Even though the caller’s construction business income is down because of the recession, he remained critical of the government’s unfair taxing policies.)

 

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:44 | 1179298 Let them all fail
Let them all fail's picture

I have an effective federal income tax rate of 1% this year...Getting back about all the money I withheld for federal income tax.  Seems pretty strange but great for me.  Noone should have a negative effective federal income tax, thats just called welfare.  Speaking of which, if normal people can have negative effective federal income tax rates without even lobbying for them, no wonder with all their lobbying power that companies like GE, JPM and Exxon don't pay taxes (or even pay negative taxes), they probably don't even have to try that hard...

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 06:06 | 1179458 uno
uno's picture

anyone working cash business also can scam the earned income credit.  Also on the dole is healthy people getting disability payments for life by playing the depressed game.

There is the civilian defense industry which are glamorized handouts as well as the government employee welfare queens, and then there is wall street on a different welfare scale.

So there is a few million real workers carrying the weight of the corrupt system.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 07:33 | 1179538 duo
duo's picture

The Great Society and the war on poverty.  How you can reduce poverty by paying poor people to breed is beyond me.  The children born during LBJ's great experiment are now becoming grandparents.

Maltheus, where are you?

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 23:54 | 1179133 Amish Pirate
Amish Pirate's picture

I'm a net taxpayer, you can thank us later other half of America.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:09 | 1179250 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Thank you for what exactly?  Reloading the Ponzi?

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 07:34 | 1179541 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Right after you thank the "other half of America" for shoveling Chinese crap into your SUV and thus providing the salary that makes you a net taxpayer.

 

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 23:54 | 1179134 crash_davis
crash_davis's picture

It's exactly the point that the government should never get into the game of legislating "social justice". All it is is an excuse for the government to control, to pick winners and losers, to try to control the society in need of "social justice."

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:10 | 1179151 JPG101
JPG101's picture

And if the government really doesn't help 'social justice' the people on the losing side of 'social justice' will come at us hard. Go to countries with GINI coeifficents below that of the US (and where many want this to go) and you might think a bit of social justice makes a bit more sense...

The winners are being picked and it isn't you or me. It's GS, JP Morgan and friends. It certainly isn't the poor, middle class or the mildly rich.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:13 | 1179157 IdioTsincracY
IdioTsincracY's picture

based on GINI we rank with the scums of this world.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:11 | 1179249 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

You don't get it. GS, JP Morgan, et. al. are creatures of the state, supported by a gigantic web of legislation that started with the Federal Reserve. You want social justice? Cripple government by making it 90% smaller, restrict the creation of Corporations to specific charters with limited terms that expire, and then tax those restricted Corporations. The unrestricted corporate form of organization is evil. Sole proprietorships and partnerships are the only moral forms of business organization.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:43 | 1179296 JPG101
JPG101's picture

Yeh evil: good and evil. Reminds me of the last president who chainsawed Glass Steagall: evil I guess... What does the new clown in power do? Give them billions for screwing up. Talk about capture!

GS and JP Morgan are not creatures of the state. They infiltrated a weak state and took it over. A bit like drug cartels are taking over Mexico and like the mafia has control over large parts of Italy. The 0.1% use every level of power to take over our only defense against them and now they want the sheeple to ask them to destroy the only possible protector that can stop them from completly taking over. Shrinking the gov by 90% means no more courts to prosecute them. What do you want? Get ride of all the institutions that are the basis for a strong country? How about reforming or stopping the corruption? 

Do you really think you will be better of with no civil institutions? Who will protect us against the 0.1%? Somalia has no evil gov but I bet a few (99.9%) there would want one to protect them from the 0.1%...

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 02:22 | 1179334 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

I think we can have some form of government that doesn't turn its citizens into slaves via an income tax and the federal reserve system. In fact we had that kind of a gov't before 1913.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 04:23 | 1179396 JPG101
JPG101's picture

Every era had their robber barons. Pre 1913 was no different. The names change but the principle is the same. Gold standard or fiat with or without a central bank: the same rules of class warfare apply but the tools of oppression vary. The 0.01% simply use all available tools of oppression... The 99.9% could fight back but when the top 9.9% are scared of being pushed down they usually push back the bottom 90%. Works that way, with a few historic exceptions, in most developed countries. The US was one of those rare exceptions that escaped fascism under FDR. Sadly I doubt we can pull that off twice. Hope I'm wrong but investing as if we are heading towards Benitos land or worst...

 

Getting ride of the fedral reserve would change nothing. Getting ride of government would just get ride of the last vestige of minor protection that stands between us and the 0.01%. Getting our governments back is the only protection against serfdom.

A 1%er

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 06:20 | 1179465 uno
uno's picture

" A bit like drug cartels are taking over Mexico" 

it is very much like the drug cartels in Mexico, control of the judicial system, regulators, congress and executive branch, CNBS; instead of gunning down innocent civilians poor people worldwide starve to death by GS and JPM etc ramping up food and energy prices.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 07:02 | 1179490 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

No you're missing the point here. The MOB was this shadowy thing that everybody knew about but didn't know exactly what the hell it was ALL THROUGH THE 50's. Once they were "discovered" in the 60's it turned out they were working heavily with government cia etc.

The mob is represented as some form of low conciousness that's beneath the government conciousness. But it's just a direct expression of government conciousness without the lies and deceipt mask.

All these ufo's and crap. If they were here to help us should be scooping these guys up taking them someplace far far away and dropping them off and making them walk home. If they don't know who the good guys are and the bad guys by now they never will or don't care.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:39 | 1179293 JR
JR's picture

Absolutely. Let the non-payers stop calling for some arbitrary “social justice” they believe they’ve been denied, and start calling for “justice” straight up without the prefixes. Taxpayers can no longer afford their prefixed justice.

People know economic injustice when they see it. 

Perhaps the Congressional Budget Office already has forgotten the $1 Trillion it calculated for the Obamacare bill that must be paid over 10 years for an additional 32 million uninsured people, most arriving from Mexico, adding 16 million people to the Medicaid roll and subsidizing private coverage for low- and middle-income people?  But will the taxpayer ever be allowed to forget?

Of course, “The Democrats hailed the (Obamacare) votes as historic and a long overdue step forward in social justice, comparable to the establishment of Medicare and Social Security.”

Or, as South Carolina Representative Jame E. Clyburn put it:  ‘This is the civil rights act of the 21st century.”

Hey, somebody’s got to pay for “civil rights.”

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 06:23 | 1179469 uno
uno's picture

so you get junked for stating facts and logic.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 23:55 | 1179136 cxl9
cxl9's picture

And who pays the "inflation tax"? All those with dollar-denominated assets - money they just managed to save after the government taxed the hell out of them - that's who. Fucked again, suckers! The sad lesson is that government is nothing but a vast, corrupt wealth redistribution engine, roaming the landscape looking for pools of wealth to steal and use to perpetuate and expand its own existence. Wealth can only be stolen from those that have it and are too weak to defend it, which of course today is the middle classes.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:10 | 1179150 mark mchugh
mark mchugh's picture

I'm with you cx,

The rich are the "real" taxpayers?  Bullshit.  Jamie Dimon is a welfare case who gives kickbacks to Uncle Sugar.  The money he "earned" is also known as the national debt, which has been piling up at the rate of more than $500 per person per month for three years now.

Deficit spending is how cowards tax.

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