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Guest Post: Destructive Capability Is No Substitute For Freedom

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man

Destructive Capability Is No Substitute For Freedom

I had the opportunity to tour Chile’s national military school
yesterday. As you may know, I spent some time in the military myself in
places that were not especially pleasant, so the visit was quite
meaningful for me.

My host was a particular gung-ho Chilean Army officer; curiously, he
told me that many of his fellow officers in Chile petitioned the
government to authorize a deployment of soldiers to Iraq and
Afghanistan. They want to participate in the action, if for no other
reason than for the opportunity to improve training at home.

Chile’s politicians wouldn’t hear of it, their response being
something slightly more eloquent than “no way in hell are we sending
Chileans to die in that f’ing desert.” My host seemed rather

“Trust me,” I said, “you don’t want to go over there… and you should
consider yourself lucky that your civilian leadership has the good sense
to boycott the conflict. There is nothing good waiting for you in Iraq
or Afghanistan.”

Young, gung-ho soldiers just want to get in the fight and don’t think
much about morality, cost, or danger… so it was incredibly encouraging
to hear how opposed his government was to the idea.

I further explained that, when I was at West Point in the post-Desert
Storm era, the biggest thing we had to prepare for was the conflict in
the Balkans. After graduation, things changed; the embassy bombings in
Africa, the USS Cole, then the September 11th incident, all
revolutionized the US military’s role.

In the 1980s, there was one single enemy… and the entire US military
was focused on the Soviet Union. When the wall fell, the US aimlessly
wandered the 1990s as the world’s policeman until ultimately adopting
the role of ‘pre-emptive strike force’ in the 2000s (assuming official
explanations are to be believed).

During my own career, I realized that the military was little more
than a blunt instrument for bureaucrats to achieve political gain. I
remember the night before the invasion of Iraq in 2003 so clearly: as
all the forces were huddled at the border in Kuwait waiting to advance, I
couldn’t stop thinking about the people on both sides who were about to
die because George W. Bush had something to prove.

In the subsequent years, little has come from that conflict other than shattered lives, lost limbs, and a mountain of debt.

You can peel back the onion further and question the benefits of
nearly every conflict– Mogadishu under Clinton, Panama under Bush I,
Grenada under Reagan, the entirety of the Vietnam War under five
presidents, the invasion of Greece in 1947, the occupation of Haiti in
the 1920s… Cuba, the Philippines, Mexico, etc.

There are scores of other instances going all the way back to the
late 1700s. And for what? To install a ruthless, puppet dictator? To
maintain the country’s addiction to oil? To expand America’s domain
until it matches the size of its government’s ego?

Libya is simply the latest in an endless string of folly. This logic
of “let’s indiscriminately bomb a country in order to protect the
civilians” can only come from the mind of a politician who quantifies
benefit in votes and awards taxpayer money to defense contractors that
make warfare more lethal.

Consider that there are entire industries with some of the most
brilliant minds on the planet dedicated to making the military more
‘powerful’, i.e. deadly.

Today, politicians can watch a predator drone or stealth bomber rain
death and destruction on a foreign population from his plasma screen.
They brag about their smart bombs (which are racking up the civilian death toll) or how powerful their nuclear arsenal is, as if the efficiency of one’s destructive power is honorable.

Donald Rumsfeld famously used the phrase “shock and awe” as a
promotional tool during the invasion of Iraq. It was something for the
press to latch onto and fill the country with a dreamy spin on the
military’s ability to exterminate foreigners like cockroaches.

They show us videos of massive explosions and Americans shriek like chimpanzees in boastful approval. Not exactly a far cry from the Roman Colosseum, is it?

In reality, there’s nothing romantic about this; the ability to kill
efficiently should not be a source of pride. And the fact that a small
group of elites has the power to send thousands of people to fight, die,
and kill, as well as cajole an entire society into tacit support, is a
total aberration of humanity.

Our descendents will surely look back on this time and wonder how we
could have been so foolish– to let these people rob our freedoms;
destroy our economies; kill foreigners on their home soil; and shower
themselves with Peace Prize medals… all while keeping society quietly
subdued with games, tricks, and bombastic patriotism.

They tell us to wave the flag, to buy yellow ribbon bumper stickers,
and to remember the fallen on days like today. Truthfully, though, the
memories of the fallen would be much better honored if the government
quit making more of them… and stopped destroying the freedom that they
supposedly died to defend.

* If you have ever doubted that freedom is on the decline, just watch this video recently shot at the Jefferson Memorial of all places.


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Mon, 05/30/2011 - 11:51 | 1322538 duncecap rack
duncecap rack's picture

Very well said!

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:15 | 1322618 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Great, the one job we haven't shipped overseas and do well, efficiently blowing brownskins to bloody bits, and this guy trashes it? Can't we let America be America?

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:31 | 1322645 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

Can't we let 'MeriKa be 'MeriKa?

There, FIFY...carry on you bunch of bloodlusting mongrels...

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:08 | 1322729 zeroman
zeroman's picture

This is great to write long orations about the obvious evil our country has done this last decade especially. However, none of us, including Tyler, is creating a plan to change things for the future.  How is it we can onlyl have a two headed dragon (dem's and repub's) that works towards its own viscious and selfish purpose and we stand by and just write about it? I think the writing is a beginning. At some point, we must have a revolution and hopefully a non violent one.  This idea that either party serves the people is becoming more and more insulting with each passing day.  It is obvious that neither the Dems or Repubs care about anything but their special interests and the continuation of the status quo.

I mean the candidates we are given to chose from should scream loudly to us all. This is the great minds we have to combat Wall Street, China, Hedge funds, Unions, Lobbyists and the like? The tea party is a good effort under evaluation.  Time will tell if these people will become like the rest, consumed with power, money and re-elections.

We are being trashed at every front by this two-headed monster. What is our plan to crush them? I think a movement from the internet would be the most active, efficient form of political evolution we could as for. It is time to organize the Americans for True Democracy Cooperation where we effectively isolate these crooks and form huge voting blocks to oust them whereever they are.  There could be blogs regarding potential candidates with good business minds who stand as moral examples for us all keeping the special interests of so many kinds out of this effort. A specific focus and priorities should be established where we create action-plans, raise some money, and begin.  Otherwise we can just sit here and eulogize as we have been doing as hopeless dopes watching the pirates pillage and plunder  as we sit here an write about what they are doing.  What say you??

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:12 | 1322741 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

I am neither a Republican -or- a Democrat.

I am an American, which I am sure means about -0- to the uneducated mongrel tribes, accept that of a future target for their bloodlust and looting.

Fear is the foundation of most governments; but it is so sordid and brutal a passion, and renders men in whose breasts it predominates so stupid and miserable, that Americans will not be likely to approve of any political institution which is founded on it.  ~ John Adams


Associate yourself with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation for 'tis better to be alone than in bad company...Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism. ~ George Washington


If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen. ~ Samuel Adams

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:20 | 1322757 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

ron paul '12

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:45 | 1323060 A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000
A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000's picture

Had a buddy who campaigned for Obama (he got a job with his administration). Told him back then that if they guy was serious about this hope and change stuff one of 2 things would happen; they would either whack him or buy him off. 

I believe the same with happen to Ron Paul


Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:49 | 1322808 I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture

This is a fallen and broken world.  It is and always will be this way.  But of all the governing systems that have existed I'll take this one.  Individualism has morphed into selfishness.  When it all begins and ends on 'me' then we have no common interest in sustaining this experiment in democratic republic.  We've become a democracy which is easily lead to the slaughter.  The common good - caring for those truly in need - the elderly, widows, orphans, and sick - is what we need.  The government subsidized trough is filled with 'me' companies, special interests, and aggregated individuals with some common interest.  Make it in the market or fail to all those at the trough. 

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:12 | 1322847 el Gallinazo
el Gallinazo's picture

Could you be a little more explicit as to what and who constitutes a human "mongrel?"

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:35 | 1322880 srelf
srelf's picture

"Human mongrel" ala Quixotic_Not:

Any human that I decree has done stupid things with full knowledge.

That said, I don't think you are all here to start fights amongst ourselves. That would be unfortunately counterproductive. I don't particularly like Quixotic_Not's categorization of some of his fellow humans, but suspect he, like most others here, want to HELP bring our country towards the dream our founders, our true leaders, our hard-working people, and those who have sacrificed their lives for, also looked to. 

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 18:04 | 1323243 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

Could you be a little more explicit as to what and who constitutes a human "mongrel?"

U.S. citizenrey that place themselves and/or their tribe above the American Democratic Republic experiment, as originally established under Natural Law.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 23:26 | 1324377 Seer
Seer's picture

"Natural Law?"  Are you serious?  How fucking natural was it when many were excluded from partaking in the construction of their own laws? (women, blacks, natives ...)

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:52 | 1322955 macholatte
macholatte's picture


The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money.
Alexis de Tocqueville Government is like a baby. An alimentary canal with a big appetite at one end and no sense of responsibility at the other.
Ronald Reagan Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson The American people are tired of liars and people who pretend to be something they're not.
Hillary Clinton In the long term we can hope that religion will change the nature of man and reduce conflict. But history is not encouraging in this respect. The bloodiest wars in history have been religious wars.
Richard M. Nixon Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations.
Yasser Arafat Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas.
Joseph Stalin
Mon, 05/30/2011 - 18:08 | 1323265 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

That Nixon quote is asinine.

I glad he was a crypto-democrat.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 21:42 | 1324050 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Yeah... because the difference between Republicans and Democrats is just soooo unequivocal.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:22 | 1322765 zeroman
zeroman's picture


Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:33 | 1322786 granolageek
granolageek's picture

You're a religious nut job.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:17 | 1322854 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

denial of same being the indicator.... (not to mention all caps, bold font)

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:43 | 1323030 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Out of the 26 purported Gods of all religions how can I be sure your god is the real god?

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:33 | 1323042 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

The correlation coefficient of religion and peace historically is about -0.999


O for a voice like thunder, and a tongue to drown the throat of war!

When the sensesare shaken, and the soul id driven to madness,

who can stand? 

When the souls of the oppressed

fight in the troubled air that rages, 

who can stand?

when the whirlwind of fury comes from the throne of God, 

when the frowns of his countenance drive the nations together, 

who can stand?

when Sin claps his broad wings over the battle,

and sails rejoicing in the flood of Death;

when souls are torn to everlasting fire.

and fiends of Hell rejoice upon the slain,

o who can stand? 

O who bath caused this?

o who can answer at the throne of God?

the Kings and Nobles of the Land have done it!

hear it not, Heaven, thy Ministers have done it!



-William Blake

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 16:02 | 1323092 malek
malek's picture

I can and do possess morality and strong principles without a god, thank you.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 23:27 | 1324388 Seer
Seer's picture

So, instead of govt dictating our freedoms we get to have clergy do it?

No slaves, no masters.

Oh, and which set of laws are you talking about?  What sect?

Diversity is the thing of life.  By looking to corral everything into one pot you kill life (and I don't think that the "great creator," from which diversity arose, would approve.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 19:15 | 1323386 naughtius maximus
naughtius maximus's picture

"If there is hope . . . it lies in the proles" -Winston Smith

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:56 | 1322707 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Can't we let America be America?


Hell yeah, THE OLD one.Not the one that the politicians have destroyed.

WE are collectively to blame, WE should have never allowed the PTB to disregard the Founders Guidebook.

Our blood will be on out own heads because of it.

He is dead fricken on.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:34 | 1322896 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

DosZap, pls send me a gmail if you would like to check out my blog.  Newest article is on Texas!

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:52 | 1322946 cossack55
cossack55's picture

I would but I don't know what gmail is.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:56 | 1322958 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

It's the way you keep the NSA and the dept. of Homeland Security informed of your intent to be the best "Domestic Terrorist" you can possibly be

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:38 | 1322666 WALLST8MY8BALL
WALLST8MY8BALL's picture

I could "Dance" to that!

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:17 | 1322747 merehuman
merehuman's picture

sheep can dance?

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:35 | 1322899 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Oh, GOOD to see you back merehuman!  I hope that everything is well for you.

Please send me a gmail (you'll figure it out) if you would like to check out my blog.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 18:15 | 1323279 merehuman
merehuman's picture

DCRB  i lost everything. Woman died, caring for her last 2 years decimated savings, meanwhile business died death due to the economy, traded truck for taxes paid on house i built but reverse mortgaged. Was suiciadal for a couple of weeks and found how very few friends i had. Just gave up the car in exchange for a place to stay and been digging dirt for ten dollars an hour while waiting return of a FOIA i sent to prove to the germans that i never became a citizen. heading to germany after being here since age 12 and must relearn the language. its a bit challenging to be in my shoes at the moment, but look at it all as an adventure and see many worse of than myself. I can walk on my own, need very little , kept my integrety and am closer to my true self for the huge humbling that came my way. in fact i am finally being thankfull for the adversity. Folks who have it easy do not grow much and so waste away. i have managed to save 5 ounces silver. haha. Life is good as long as it last, cheers to adversity. Now as to should have your family in S. america by now, much less radiation, much less danger and harm. Go my friend, go! You have enough capital, go  and be safe. its insane ti stay in the USA.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 21:42 | 1324058 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Good luck ++

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 13:02 | 1325744 WALLST8MY8BALL
WALLST8MY8BALL's picture

Not at the Jefferson Memorial

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:04 | 1322712 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

A very instructive and educational Irish vid from the mid 1990s...............


It basically displays why Ireland will always remain a colony - notice how the band play with the strange concepts coming from the crowd and indeed the presenter.

The conservative and stunted growth is apparent for all to see.

A truely magic piece of Irish Telly that will probably become a valuable historical document.

I am sure at least some members of a Scottish audience would have made the connection.

I guess we are just not very bright.

Perfect specimens for colonisation.

By part 3 you realise the band know exactly what they are doing - waste of time in Ireland however.

Even now people cannot make the connection , amazing !

Thank You Gavin for the link.


Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:04 | 1322722 Duuude
Duuude's picture

Hijacking the thread, you need to see this on Veteran's Day

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:16 | 1322758 merehuman
merehuman's picture

see, its true, sheep cant dance.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:32 | 1322888 Michael
Michael's picture

Oh this country formally known as the USA so deserves everything it has comming to it.

I thank God for the complete and total economic collapse of the USSA. It seems to be the only thing that can possibly help us at this point in time.


Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:31 | 1323033 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Many innocent people will be hurt due to the greedy, lazy, and shiftless.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 11:55 | 1322541 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Fuck freedom and democracy.


We need truth and justice.  Something these mercs don't seem to give a shit about.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:10 | 1322590 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

Yes, and a dictator will bring you your truth and justice in spades.

ha ha ha

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:19 | 1322621 Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

who mentioned a dictator?

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:32 | 1322649 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture
Truth and justice without freedom? "The will of the people is the only legitimate foundation of any government, and to protect its free expression should be our first object." Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826) Third president of the United States
Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:40 | 1322667 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

Why is it the only legitimate foundation of government? Quoting some famous white guy doesn't bring your statement justification to anyone with a functioning brain.

Take the modern "will of the people." They accept the corporate fascist government with glee. Thus, our current state is legitimate? That is, in essence, what you are claiming.

The people are stupid.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:47 | 1322689 TheEmperor
TheEmperor's picture

Yes, the people need truth and justice, I can understand their plight...

...perhaps I shall forward my candidacy...(for US presidency? Head of IMF?)

...and invoke 'emergency powers'...

 Lucas, and many others know what comes next.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:21 | 1322761 merehuman
merehuman's picture

i just fell of my galactic plane!

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 19:34 | 1323430 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture


You, oh "mighty" emperor, see a portion of the spiral well.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:57 | 1322704 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

Jefferson was nothin' but a poser among the Sons of Liberty, and the first political sophist that pandered to the rabble from the White House, dissembling his way to power after the Continental Congress chose him to be their scribe...

But don't just take my opinion about it, as there are scores throughout US History, like this one:

Too self-indulgent to manage carefully his own lands and his life, he relied upon slaves, as a source of ready capital, selling scores of them to support his habits and pleasures." In Finkelman's opinion, Jefferson was "the arch traitor" against "the hopes of the world."

The sheeple have always  been enthralled listening to dissembling conmen and tribalist race hustlers, no matter their race, creed and/or religion.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:33 | 1322885 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

well, that's Finkeystein's fucking opinion; just like rectums, everybody's got one. I'd submit - imho -  Tom's personal bidness/so-called incompence had nothing at all to do with his intellect and vision. If "self-indulgent" is a sufficient metric to pole-vault to "arch traitor", well...geez...I'll let the absurdity of it speak for itself. A quick glance at your summary forces me to the conclusion that Mr. F. was (is?) an anal little fuck overcompensating for same with pomposity - jealous as hell of Jefferson's greatness. What comes to mind is Saleri's disgust with Mozart

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 05:34 | 1324687 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

well, that's Finkeystein's fucking opinion;


Is it a matter of opinions that Jefferson sold slaves to fund his way of life or is it a fact?

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:46 | 1322927 srelf
srelf's picture

Dear Kurt Russell:

I think you pulled one sentence totally out of context in that Institute for Historical Review article you link to. I encourage others to read the whole thing.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 05:47 | 1324691 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

I encourage others to read the whole thing.


I did and the writer is an apologist for Jefferson, another guy who cant face up reality as it is.

The guy has an anti chronological take on history, starting from today to end in the past.


Jefferson stated freedom was inalienable to human beings. Yet maintained slavery. No hard feelings should haver risen from the US duplicity. And that is the line taken by the author. Impressive.

That is what the author does: it starts from one Jefferson's quote, negated the very reality that slavery was maintained to establish that Jefferson's quote was deterministic.


It is typical to the US way of doing things, denying the consequences of their own doings.


US citizens: we cant live peacefully with population X.

US citizens for hundred of years antagonize, assault, oppress population X.

At that moment, US citizens stand and say:  "see, we cant live peacfully with population X"

And that is the US way, the US create a situation and later deny their doings in the creation of the situation.


No distortion by quoting only one statement as the rest of the article is a pitiful attempt to conceal that side of US reality.

The US citizen nature is eternal.



Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:35 | 1323041 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Who the hell is Finkelstein and why does his opinion matter more than a fart in the wind? Nobody ever claimed Jefferson was Jesus. Many of his ideas are great and that's what matters. 

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 05:48 | 1324693 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Many of his ideas are great and that's what matters. 


Ideas are only great to the extent they can be carried out. Jefferson failed to apply his own ideas to himself and his situation, wrote worthless rationalization to explain his own shortcomings at living up to his ideas and finally, it gives ground to people like this Larson author who indulge in cheap propaganda in order to offuscate reality.

Where is the great in all that? Apart from a massive waste of resources...

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 19:39 | 1323444 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

"Simple minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, great minds discuss ideas."

This forum has become infected with simple minded fools.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:02 | 1322717 DosZap
DosZap's picture

 They accept the corporate fascist government with glee.


The hell they do,they know the score but just haven't been taken to the woodshed yet.

Coming soon to all of us.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:53 | 1322822 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Bullshit. Don't put words in my mouth. I was simply trying to point out that freedom of speech and expression is essential, and without it, we are all screwed. 

And If you think Jefferson or any of the other founders would put up with this shit going on now then you are the one who is stupid.


Mon, 05/30/2011 - 19:26 | 1323419 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

I did not put words in your mouth. I simply took what you said to their logical final conclusions.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:36 | 1323047 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Would you be more accepting if he quoted a famous black guy? Take your race pimping and shove it up your ass

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 19:35 | 1323429 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

No, I would not be more accepting, no matter who he quoted.

My point is that adding some famous dude to the end of some supposedly meaningful sentence does not automatically give that sentence meaning.

He was unable to take the quote to its logical conclusion; aka, applying it to modern day circumstances. He believed that, just because it was something some Jefferson dude said, it must mean something.

Idiocy. It was simply coincidence that Jefferson is white.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 20:18 | 1323520 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

Speaking of simple minded fools. You take the cake.

You want ideas?

Go read the Constitution and Bill of Rights you pathetic asshole.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 20:59 | 1323869 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

I've read them. Many times.

What have they led to?

Corporate fascist dictatorship. I suggest you use your brain and understand the rise, maturity, and fall of civilizations, imbecile. During our lifetimes, we shall see the fall of the American civilization. Nothing you do, wish, pray, or otherwise hope for will change this fact. I suggest you get used to it, and stop living in the 1700's, because you are living in 2011.

Tell me; how am I a simple minded fool? Is it because I understand the spiral of human exploitation? Is it because I can see the past, present, and future better than you can see your right hand? Is it because I take ideas to their logical conclusions? You call me a fool, yet you are incapable of explaining why I am so foolish.

Idiot. Shut the fuck up.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 01:34 | 1324553 Seer
Seer's picture

I fully understand what you're saying here.  I run into issues with people being unable to project things out.

"La Revolucion is like a great love affair. In the beginning, she is a goddess. A holy cause. But... every love affair has a terrible enemy: time. We see her as she is. La Revolucion is not a goddess but a whore. She was never pure, never saintly, never perfect."

-Jack Palance, as 'Jesus Raza', in, 'The Professionals' (1966)

One can hardly sell natives or blacks on the righteousness of the early nation

All bright and shiny in begining, hope abounds, only to ultimately falter on the rocks of human nature.  Anyone who has a clue about history will see that there is built-in decay, decay that cannot be stomped out through any "competent" or fully "engaged" citizenry, not as long as a civilization's driver is (physical) growth.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:38 | 1322662 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

I did. Democracy inevitably ends in ochlocracy, which leads to dictatorship, because the mob is far too stupid to rule itself.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:51 | 1322685 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

WATERS: We have the choice. We can say something or we can say nothing. Not everything true is funny, and not everything funny is true. Most comics feed prejudice and fear and blinkered vision, but the best ones, the comedians… illuminate them, make them clearer to see, easier to deal with. We’ve got to make people laugh…
(Pointing at GED.)

GED: Til they cry.

WATERS: Cry. Til they find their pain and their beauty. Comedy is medicine. Not coloured sweeties to rot the teeth with.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:40 | 1323053 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Other than submitting dozens of posts calling the people stupid, what is the point of your posts? We know you're stupid, your mother is stupid, your siblings are stupid, any of your offspring would be stupid, but what's the solution in your opinion?

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 19:34 | 1323416 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

Solution? LOL

Simple minded fool. You believe that humanity's problems can be solved with a final "solution."

There is no solution, only a cycle of problems. Human government spirals from aristocracy, to plutocracy, to democracy, to ochlocracy, to aristocracy, to plutocracy, and so on.

The human lifespan is far too short, and the mass of humanity is far too dimwitted, for a "solution" to take hold. If you had read any history at all, you would understand that humanity passes through cycles of various form of exploitation.

Your inability to recognize this indeed proves your idiocy. Your screen name, Sun Tzu, is blasphemous. You are far too intellectually handicapped to be worthy of such a title.

There is no spoon. There is no solution. All you can do is ride the wave of history before you die, as I shall do.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 02:20 | 1324590 Seer
Seer's picture

“The chief cause of problems is solutions.”

- Eric Sevareid

As you note, "solutions" are final, absolute.  I suspect that Sevareid was aware of this, though I think that his quote had more to do with people's inability to properly define the problem, which is a guarantee that the expected results won't materialize.

Since this is an economics forum and folks speak in terms of "the bottom line," what, then, is it that people see as the bottom-line, the end game for which they offer "solutions?"  I'd think that ultimately everything boils down to being able to further our existence (as a species) on this planet.  I'd argue that diversity is the best vehicle (the all-eggs-in-one-basket approach isn't wise).

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 11:53 | 1322544 unky
unky's picture

just today was reported that the U.S. killed 12 children and 10 women in afghanistan, when this engless wars will stop? for what justification they went to and remain in afghanistan and iraq?

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:33 | 1322787 Antarctico
Antarctico's picture

Wow, these fuckers are hardly pretending anymore.  Maybe, we should get real and start painting corporate sponsor logos on the sides of our Predator drones.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:41 | 1322796 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture


Politicians should be forced to wear jumpsuits like the Nascar drivers....emblazoned with all their various "Whore-porate" sponsors

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:54 | 1322951 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Why is it our bombs are smarter than our politicians?

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:28 | 1323034 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

aside from the politics, brinksmanship, geopolitical posturing and chess-playing, opium profits, miltary industry profits ("bling, bling, bling") and assorted other motivations to continue indefinitely.... they can't pull those troops home 'cause there's no jobs

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 11:59 | 1322567 ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

"the memories of the fallen would be much better honored if the government quit making more of them"


Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:16 | 1322862 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Throughout history, major wars and strife have always followed banking crises.  The unwind of the confetti age is always ugly.

If you take a realpolitik look at things, the US is already developing its chess pieces for what those at the top must view as inevitable.

Usury is the bugler for the Four Horsement

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:08 | 1322581 The Real McCoy
The Real McCoy's picture

To many of the of the public it's just a reality show, and the more explosions, shock and awe the better, 'cause that stuff is cool. 

People just want to feel part of 'the good guys' fighting for any so-called evil cause anti-terror, anti-drugs, anti-communist, etc.  and the government does their best to make the people feel the threat is real.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:13 | 1322737 DosZap
DosZap's picture

and the government does their best to make the people feel the threat is real.


Uh Huh, but a vast majority isn't buying this shit.

That's why we continue to be painted as criminals, and terroists as Americans,by our own Gv't.


When you wake up, and figure out you are guilty of something(you know not what?), and are an enemy of the state.(Secret Patriot Act Deaux,plus countless others).


Then you will realize how truly screwed, we are.

The shirts may not be brown, but the end result will be the same.



Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:22 | 1322762 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

That's why we continue to be painted as criminals, and terroists as Americans,by our own Gv't.

Fate Resistors = Terrorists

It's all already baked in and has received the 100% tacit support of the sheeple, who keep their heads down on pastures of ignorant bliss, paying their taxes without question to make it so...

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:44 | 1322932 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

meanwhile, Senate rams through extension (4 years) of sun-setting Patriot Act provisions, signed into law by Mr. Chief Democrat, despite opposition and warnings by 2 members of senate Intelligence Committee (Wyden, Udall), Wyden emphasizing the actionable interpretations of said provisions which occur in secret [emphasis mine]

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:54 | 1322964 cossack55
cossack55's picture

I used to think my friends/family avoided me because I was constantly shoving truth/facts in their mugs, now I think its because they see me up against a wall and they don't want to be standing beside me. More pondering on this required.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:20 | 1322768 merehuman
merehuman's picture

we reap the seeds we sow, or our sown in our name. We all get the karma for the murder done in our name. Bystanders to a crime in progress are also guilty.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:51 | 1322949 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

next thing ya know, you'll be blaming me for slavery, even though my forebears were in present-day Slovakia at the time

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:06 | 1322587 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture


Many thanks.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:08 | 1322593 Atch Logan
Atch Logan's picture

Anyone that signs up for an undeclared (illegal) war is nothing but a mercenary, sugar coat it as you will, and they are no better than a gladiator with a sword--meat.

The disengenuous "support our troops" is worthless crap.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:24 | 1322615 Hacksaw
Hacksaw's picture

Hey, it's not the troops, most believe they are fighting for their country and countrymen. It's the butt heads who insist on playing the democrat vs republican game. Who doom us all to the elite dictators that make all this crap up. Bring on the revolution, it's time for all the fraud, made up wars, and financial manipulation to end.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:33 | 1322655 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

There's certainly some irony wrt criticism directed at the "support our troops" dogma on this particular (arbitrary) day of reverence.

There are also many statists posting and lurking here, so I'll take my junks like any proud anarchist would.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:35 | 1322783 thriftymost
thriftymost's picture

Belief is precisely what's wrong.

Stop believing; start dealing with reality.


Tue, 05/31/2011 - 02:28 | 1324593 Seer
Seer's picture

"Hey, it's not the troops"

I believe that the Nazi war crimes tribunals revealed that the "I was just following orders" defense isn't justifiable.  Further, in the US that is, enlistment is voluntary.  When soldiers lay down their weapons we shall have peace (and TPTB will stand their naked and powerless).

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:33 | 1322780 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Atch you are sadly mistaken.

We have a voluntary military.

The vast majority are just following orders,they did not sign up to fight God only knows who, in a hell hole.

After 9-11, yes, sure they did.For a damn good reason in their minds.( payback)

Do not disrepect our soldiers doing a job most would damn sure rather not be doing.

Many are on their 3rd and 4th+ rotations.

Worn out, and burned out, wanting to come home to their families, and friends.

But, have no choice, and are called, and re-called.

Go or court martial.

Blame the cokskrs that are sending them.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:00 | 1322973 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Just saw a great show about a Brit Major who in 1946 went after the Gestapo swine that killed the 50 from the Great Escape. A couple of them used the "If I don't fire, I'll be shot myself" line, and they ended up swing in 1948 anyway. Justice worked a lot better back then.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:59 | 1323076 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

I saw nothing wrong with the Germans executing POWs who escaped. They surrendered. The Allies did the same to German POWs who tried to escape. The only difference was that the Allies won, so their war criminals were not punished. In Bavaria, over 6,000 Germans who had surrendered were machine gunned to death by American troops at the end of the war. Many of the dead were teenagers who were drafted by the Reich. They were buried in mass graves and their mothers never saw them again. Justice only works for those who win.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:57 | 1323079 Miss anthrope
Miss anthrope's picture

many reinlist because there are no jobs and economy to come back to..  I know several personally who, when it is time to re-inlist take the easy way out.......... they re-inlist.  So, don't give me that crap you are talking right there about they WANT to come home.  That is just not true.  They go and they stay because that's where they see their best opportunity.  I don't know any one of them that is over there fighting for their country if they will get honest with themselves and you. 

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 16:35 | 1323137 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

point taken, Miss. however, to doszap's point, the reservists are the ones really getting screwed: lots of them get re-rotated & etc.; that's bullshit. I still am surprised (silly me) at nobody (besides me) yelling about the absurdity that we can't even fight some goof-ball, bullshit little war without using up all our reserves to do it. yikes

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 02:30 | 1324594 Seer
Seer's picture

"The vast majority are just following orders"

See my above post (

As long as people are willing to pick up arms by command there will be cocksuckers sending them to their (and others) death.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:13 | 1322599 Number 156
Number 156's picture

Get ready to rumble, Retiring 'me-generation baby boomers' vs 'middle age have-not debt slaves'...

Its going to be one hell of a fight!

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:21 | 1322760 ibjamming
ibjamming's picture we eat our young?

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:35 | 1322782 DosZap
DosZap's picture

No the Chinese do, bought on street vendors skewers.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:50 | 1322810 AmCockerSpaniel
AmCockerSpaniel's picture

NO; But we do kill them before birth.  Now that we're getting the birth rate down, we have to die before be grow old. Because there just are not enough replacements to support us in old age.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:38 | 1322792 DosZap
DosZap's picture


As a Boomer,pls explain to me, where the definition of the ME Generation tag comes from, what did WE, do that we had a choice in, that affects YOU?.

I went to school, married, worked,paid any and all taxes, never broke any laws,raised a family,just like every generation before ME/US.

Anything I received I worked my ass off for, no one gave me shit.

So explain how we are the ME gen.(i.e.) self centered ,useless bastards.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:52 | 1322819 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Not to mention boomers will be the first generation to pay their entire lives into the system and get nothing.

Young whiners haven't paid shit, yet.

Of course if oldsters buy into the mediscare shit one more time, even I'll vote to send them to carosel.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:42 | 1322926 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

DosZap, Rodent.  Pls send me a gmail if either of you would like to see my blog, latest article is on Texas.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 16:11 | 1323105 malek
malek's picture

You mean like the ones retired in recent years, all already getting nothing? The now still paying X'ers will be the ones really getting screwed.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 16:20 | 1323111 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

No argument.

Xers are gonna get the full barbed cock of Satan experience.

Sucks, but what can ya do?

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:09 | 1322600 marcusfenix
marcusfenix's picture

"just like the pied piper

led rats through the streets

we dance like marionettes

swaying to the symphony

of destruction"

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:13 | 1322602 Übermensch
Übermensch's picture

 I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:38 | 1322669 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

... I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.


Let me think... Iraq, Afganistan have provided America with returning veterans, who are likely to see their pensions, mortgages (JP Morgan backs down quickly the first time), lifestyle and so forth go to the wolves. Let's hope they're not forged into a tool like the OAPs were in the Teaparty, right?

Could never happen outside of Hollywood, right?

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:55 | 1322705 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

The returning veterans of these wars of empire will likely form the officer corps in the next American Revolution.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:39 | 1322791 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Empires keep what they conquer. They, at least, demand tribute.

If America is an empire, it is a retarded empire.


Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:47 | 1322804 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Agreed,we have never been into Colonialism.

The days of you start a war, and lose cost's you something does not apply.This is a perfect way to bankruptcy.

At home, there are always reparations for  damages incurred.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:02 | 1322831 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Agreed,we have never been into Colonialism.


Busted. The US is what if not a colonial nation? The US is the result of colonialism, with US settlers colonizing Indian lands.

Propagandists have grown incredibly cocky in their detached way to reality.

You have to make it this one: the US has never been into colonialism. Wonderful.

Anyone looking for a Chemical Ali position, there is a real talent here.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:33 | 1322895 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

We inherited the the original 13. We bought the Louisiana territory and Alaska. We bought parts of the southwest.

Compared to Europe, we do look pretty good.

We gave back France, Belgium, West Germany, Italy, Sicily, parts of N. Africa, Japan, South Korea, etc..

Sell it to the programeed useful idiots.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:28 | 1323035 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

How's that Manifest Destiny thing workin' out for ya?

It's an easier lie to swallow if one assumes a moral and cultural superiority over those people whom one wishes to conquer, subjugate, and ultimately destroy.

It's also a useful concept when conditioning the public to support wars of aggression against foreign nations. Dehumanizing the "enemy" is a prerequisite.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:38 | 1323051 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I don't believe I dehumanized anyone in that comment.

I pointed out that we bought a lot of land.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:36 | 1323046 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Your historical understanding is a bit... off.

You bought Louisiana from the French, who conquered it from the Spanish, who took it from the Indians.  You conquered the south west from Mexico in a war you instigated.  You conquered Hawaii, Philippines and Cuba directly and for you to say that you 'gave back' France, Belgium, Germany, Italy, Japan and South Korea is a blatant misunderstanding of economic and military empire.  Those places are protectorates of the Unite States (especially Japan).  All of those places have multiple American military installations and are tied directly to the American economic system.

The United States is an empire by every definition of the term and has been so since the  Louisiana Purchase.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:46 | 1323055 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Heh. Do you think the French know they are a protectorate?

And we liberated Phillipines and Cuba from the evil Spanish and gave them back.

The fact that we didn't have to is the point.

We decided to.

Europe fought WW1 to maintain colonialism and only lost the colonies because they pissed away all their wealth killing each other, one more time, again.


Mon, 05/30/2011 - 17:14 | 1323180 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

What country isn't an empire? All of Latin America was stolen from the native tribes by Spain, Portugal etc. who lost control of those colonies. Mexico stole Mexico and the Southwest from Spain, who stole it from the native tribes. The Arabs stole North Africa from the natives there. More than half of the English are descendents of conquering Norman, Anglo-Saxon, or Roman invaders. Russia is full of descendents of conquering Swedish and Germanic armies. Basically, Americans should feel no more guilt than Mexicans or Brazilians regarding colonialism. 

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 05:58 | 1324694 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

We inherited the the original 13.


And the 13 original colonies represented 90 pc of the land transfer that the US operated, a well known fact.


What has Europe to do with that? Cant  propagandists come with better offuscation?

Observer:- this guy loves chocolate.

Propagandist:- This other guy too.

Buying colonies, yes and? Why would colonialism not include trading colonies? Colonial powers traded colonies between each other so what? It does not change it was colonialism.

The US is the result of colonialism. One small fraction of the colonialistic endeavour was undertaken by Europeans, the massive fraction of the colonial effort was performed by US citizens.

Sometimes, because they call colonies territorities, US citizens think they can hide the very nature of their action.

The US citizen nature is eternal.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:53 | 1322824 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

ha, ha, don't you consume everything producing nothing (except smart bombs, stealth thingies and so on)?

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:25 | 1322877 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

US still produces 25% of the world's goods and services. We could produce more if we decided to lay waste to our competitor's industry.

Just sayin.


Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:53 | 1322947 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Forget services, everybody knows them, tell me something about goods.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:05 | 1322987 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

High cost labor is bad, but the EPA, DOE and other evil entities of government are more to blame.

All these things started off with a good idea, and like everything of government, they become bloated, corrupt tools of tyranny.

Programed idiots always shoot the wrong direction.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 03:24 | 1324626 Seer
Seer's picture

High cost of labor is bad?  Let's take this one to the extremes...

Go ahead, let me know how your social engineering solution should be, what the level of wages should be according to you.  Further, what of Henry Ford's claim that workers should be paid enough such that they can afford the very thing they produce (obviously this doesn't hold up at certain levels, such as workers producing commerical airplanes etc.)?

At some point along the line you'll have to break down and acknowledge that it ultimately comes down to resource availability: food resources to feed workers, and resources as inputs to the production chain.  As resource availability declines prices (actually it's "affordability") for them go up (the beauty of capitalism- it looks to assign value on resources).  If workers wages decline then it follows that production HAS to drop: isn't this what's happening with the [US] housing market?

I take the view that it is inevitable that resources decline, and it is this decline that is the root of the "problem" (wages and other things are merely symptoms)

Keep in mind that all of modern economics and civilization is based on growth, on expansion of production and consumption.  Just as the expansion of fiat money will ultimately result in a collapse, so too will the expansion of consumption/growth in the physical domain cause a collapse in the physical numbers of people.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:58 | 1322828 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Empires keep what they conquer. They, at least, demand tribute.

If America is an empire, it is a retarded empire.


The tribute is: yield wealth against US fiat money.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:26 | 1322873 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

No, the tribute would be oil, pm, and rare earth metals deliverable at the docks, or we will kill you, or sell you into slavery.

That is tribute.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 16:24 | 1323123 I only kill chi...
I only kill chickens and wheat's picture

If you're gonna fight a war, at least try to make a freakin profit on it. We just lose blood and treasure.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 03:33 | 1324630 Seer
Seer's picture

"We just lose blood and treasure." Who is "we?" And, how are you measuring things? I don't think that you'd find anyone disagreeing that the "defense" industry isn't profiting. Also, the companies seem to be doing very well: they win no matter- suppress supply -> increase prices of existing, gain that supply and sell something that you didn't previously have -> more sales.

Ultimately it's about control.  It's hard to quantify the value between controlling and not controlling, but I'd speculate that having the ability to control the resources is better than having a competitor (some other nation) controlling them.

There's also the issue of exernalized costs: war creates current and future claims on taxes for things such as medical and (replacement) equipment.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 22:03 | 1324091 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Oil, pm, and rare earth metals... if all these things are paid for with USD, which are (to quote our beloved Ben) essentially free for the US to produce... who owns them?

We get value in exchange for paper. THAT is the form modern tribute takes.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 06:01 | 1324695 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

That is tribute.


All the list is wealth. The US sends pixel dust (a manner of accounting tribute) in exchange of wealth.

Anyone that does not comply sees its country destabilized or invaded.

This is tribute.



Mon, 05/30/2011 - 16:18 | 1323115 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Wow, another Smedley Parrot.

Can't you guys mix in some other quotes sometimes?

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 01:19 | 1324544 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Government is constantly trying to find a way to have unlimited creation of currency (Euros, FRNs [Federal Reserve Notes]) and credit without inflation, unlimited spending and deficits without economic ruin, unlimited national debt without repayment, and unlimited growth of power and plunder (regulation and taxation) without revolt.

They can no more halve things and get the sensual good, by itself, than we can get an inside that shall have no outside, or a light without a shadow.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 03:37 | 1324631 Seer
Seer's picture

Why the fuck do you bother reading then?  I'd say the same for me: why the fuck do I bother reading your posts, which are only about belitting/hating others?

Just because YOU don't like it it doesn't mean that it's invalid.  And personal attacks against those who present the qoutes and not the quotes themselves is pretty lame.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:15 | 1322606 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

agree 100%

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:26 | 1322772 merehuman
merehuman's picture

Awh, that yellow ribbon around my neck is way to tight

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:45 | 1322936 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Buy yellow and white metals instead!   Glad to have you back merehuman.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:17 | 1322614 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"to create a more just and verdant world."  motto of the MacArthur foundation.  Can't be said any better.  "If our aim is not the creation of a greater freedom at the same time as well then we are lost."  World War I and II stand apart of course.  "This is a war on terror."  When don't we have one of those? Obviously our economy has been obliterated by these wars--and "blame the vet" is the government modus vivendi and has been for decades now.  Is there anything in shorter supply than courage?  I think even Al Pacino had to choke down the line "it's phuck your buddy, cheat on your wife, send your mother a card on Mother's Day."  He did get an Oscar for it of course.  20 years ago "and that movie still views like it was made yesterday."  Good luck finding that movie made today of course.  Obviously we're witnessing "a sequel."

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 03:43 | 1324634 Seer
Seer's picture

"blame the vet" is the government modus vivendi and has been for decades now.

What?  The "vet" is the mule of governments and corporations.  You can't look anywhere where you don't see the "vet" being held up as a symbol (propaganda tool).

If you mean that "vets" are used and disposed of, well, what the fuck is new?  It's got nothing to do in particular to this or any other goverment.  It's how TPTB extract their wealth!  All those who perpetuate the notions of "brave soldiers" only further empower TPTB.  Don't get me wrong, "defense" is well and good, but it needn't be in the form of a standing (and exploited) army.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:15 | 1322617 gwar5
gwar5's picture

I believe in a strong military capability. So do our allies that depend on us.  A strong capability prevents hostilities all the time because it stops despots around the world from growing into bigger regional threats just because they have to take into their calculus potential deterrent consequences.  

Size and capability does matter as a deterrent alone. But also how the capability is used and not used.

We all hear about guns being used in violent crimes all the time. But we rarely hear about any of the over 100,000 violent crimes that are prevented every single year in the USA because somebody had a gun to defend themselves. Moreover, we will never ever hear about the crimes that were prevented just because a bad guy merely thought a potential victim might have a weapon and knew how to use it. 

"More Guns, Less Crime" John Lott, Prof. Univ. of Chicago, economist/lawyer


Same concept on a macro level with military capability. Size matters because it prevents testing of the capabilities. 


Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:27 | 1322642 yabyum
yabyum's picture

I agree with having a strong miliary, but for Christ sakes lets get out of the ME! Why are we in Germany and Europe? Look I just saved a couple of trillion dollars!( a year) That was easy.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:55 | 1322696 NumberNone
NumberNone's picture

Expect on lip service in terms of withdrawals.  In reality, US is in no hurry to exit...,2933,476464,00.html

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 16:32 | 1323129 I only kill chi...
I only kill chickens and wheat's picture

A real empire keeps the little guys in check. Let them kill each other, I agree get out of the ME. Invavding Iraq took out Iran's biggest enemy. That turned out well. Just throw some hardware to whoever starts looking too weak to carry on the war with their neighbors.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 20:26 | 1323566 gwar5
gwar5's picture

100% get  out of MENA.

Example of bad use of military and deterence. Chase the Taliban out of Afghan and move on. Saddam was an asshole, but he was their asshole, and already been put in a box. he also provided a check on Iran. So we didn't have to.

Curious how our military is suddenly used against countries that announce they do not want to accept USD in exchange for oil -- like Iraq and Libya. Much better strategy is to have an effective policies that strenghten our real economy and the USD so countries will actually want it.




Mon, 05/30/2011 - 22:03 | 1324099 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Chase the Taliban out of Afghan? The Taliban ARE Afghan. We're the interlopers there - they're trying to chase US out.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:31 | 1322652 Orly
Orly's picture

Really?  When was the last time we were attacked (and please don't say 2001...)?

When was the last time any nation decided to see if we would pull our smoke-wagon?  The last time anyone even remotely came close were the Russians in '61.

You seriously believe we need a fleet of 4000 F-35 fighter jets to
"protect" ourselves? From whom, exactly?  The Libyans?  Iranians?  Klingons?

You would be better off if you would just admit that sometimes arms are used in an offensive manner as well as a defensive manner.  I live in Texas, too, and I am happy that someone can't know whether I have a pistol under my seat.  But when was the last time I had to whip it out?  Answer: never have.

When was the last time the US government whipped out theirs?  This morning?  Yesterday?  The day before that?

Get real.  The US military is built and predicated on offensive exercises only.  A little intellectual honesty on your part would be much appreciated.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 15:39 | 1323045 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

last para: "offensive..." yep. that's why they changed the name from "War Dept". to "Dept of Defense"....first major instance of the art of spin (big-time) and foundation-stone of the ever-expanding Big Lie

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 21:03 | 1323899 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Sadly, we're attacked almost every day.

Examples: First WTC bombing -- 1993, USS Cole, embassies in Africa, WTC 9-11, shoe bombers, panty bombers, Time Square bombers, Fort Dix gang, gang in NC, Ft Hood shooter, and endless event prevented and not noted here, and there are also foreign black ops (Iran, Cuba, Venezuela) documented infiltrating our southern border already, for God knows what.

Being the world's superpower is a thankless job but there has never been a more benevolent superpower (despite our fuck ups) in the entire world history. Marshall Plan, humanitarian aid, nation building, billions for smart bombs to limit collateral damage, and rules of engagement such as controlled restraint which gets our guys killed, just to be cautious -- who else in the history of the world ever did that? Nobody does that.  And we don't do mass genocide --- unlike those that shall not be named. There's been nothing like the USA, ever. 

Because we're the world's superpower we are the default global cops, which I don't like. We subsidize Europe with our military -- they only pay 2.5% of their GDP vs USA 5% of GDP for defense. They'd be in even worse shape if they had to carry their own weight.

That's just reality. We're not fighting wars just for ourselves but as an umbrella proxy for everybody else and to defend our main export --- the USD as the WRC. We'll collapse like the Soviet Union sooner, rather than later. and then we'll withdraw from the world and it's very likely that very nasty things will unfold geopolitically.   


Mon, 05/30/2011 - 21:18 | 1324003 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Oh yeah, there's this ---

This isn't our first amorphous war against "terrorism."  I was surprised to learn that George Washington, et al.,  fought a 32 year war on terror from 1784 to 1816.

In fact, at the time 19% of the US budget was devoted just to fighting white slavery and defending the shipping lanes off the Barbary Coast, MENA and other areas. 

Slavery still exists in many Muslim countries, it's their duty under Sharia Law since the 7th century. The word slave comes from the word 'Slav' because the muslims historically invaded the European Slavic countries countless times and took Europeans Slavs as 'slaves.'



Mon, 05/30/2011 - 12:56 | 1322700 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

We all hear about guns being used in violent crimes all the time. But we rarely hear about any of the over 100,000 violent crimes that are prevented every single year in the USA because somebody had a gun to defend themselves.


You missed a few zeros here: that is 100,000,000,000 crimes prevented every single day in the USA thanks to guns. Statistics have shown that one individual has averagely 4800 criminal pulsions by hour and only the knowledge of guns ownership can curb the criminal rate that would follow then.

Some US scientists even think that aliens might have way higher rate of criminal pulsions and only the thought of the well armed US citizenry prevent them from invading the Earth.

Nobody talks about that in this PC world.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 13:27 | 1322775 Steroid
Steroid's picture

Since criminalization of carbon dioxide your every moment is criminal as long as you expire. But that is just one dimension. You can not do anything which is not illegal in some way or another, if nothing else a thought crime.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 20:09 | 1323507 gwar5
gwar5's picture

True. We all fugitives one way or another.

Mon, 05/30/2011 - 14:27 | 1322882 trav7777
trav7777's picture

huh?  WTF garbage statistics are these?  4800 per hour??  That is 80 per minute, or 1.33 per second.  No average person could even form that many thoughts much less conduct the abstract reasoning gymnastics to restrain a criminal impulse with the logic of gun ownership statistics (of which nearly everyone is IGNORANT).

Hell, I'm as anti-gun control as they come and even *I* do not have any clue about the statistical distribution of gun ownership in my neighborhood or city, which is in a shall-issue state with instant check.

Fuckin aliens!?!  Please tell me this was sarcasm...

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