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If it makes anyone feel any better Canada is jakcing up payroll taxes Jan 1st 2011. CPP and EI to brand new shiny, unafforable levels!! For All!!
Isn't communism grand. Canada, where the US learned how to hide unemployment. We're around 17% right now in terms of real numbers.
Who needs jobs when you can sit idle at home to collect unempolyment benefit til forever?
Threadjack: This recent Wikileaks released cable...
UBS economist Wang Tao, for example, expected a move mid-year, with a near-term goal of five percent appreciation by year-end 2010. China Construction Bank Vice President/Chief Economist Hwa Erh-cheng agreed that the exchange rate was a "challenge" for the People's Bank of China (PBOC), and even though the PBOC might be forced to allow appreciation, it would only be incremental because the international environment remained fragile and the export recovery was not strong. Predicting that the RMB would rise about three percent in 2010 and five percent in 2011, Hwa concluded that it was unlikely to be a "one-shot" change (e.g. a jump appreciation). China knows it needs to increase domestic demand and consumption to stabilize growth and adjust economic structure in 2010, so the exchange rate issue must eventually be "part of the equation."
Lots of "Jobs " if you know where to look
You sir are right on the money.
OMG! An army of hairy wankers being bravos on the net, supervised by Leo and robo.
Gonna need more than one basement . Nadler!!
Wikileaks has the essential features of a process of "manufactured dissent". It seeks to expose government lies. It has released important information on US war crimes. But once the project becomes embedded in the mould of mainstream journalism, it is used as an instrument of media disinformation:
"It is in the interest of the corporate elites to accept dissent and protest as a feature of the system inasmuch as they do not threaten the established social order. The purpose is not to repress dissent, but, on the contrary, to shape and mould the protest movement, to set the outer limits of dissent. To maintain their legitimacy, the economic elites favor limited and controlled forms of opposition... To be effective, however, the process of "manufacturing dissent" must be carefully regulated and monitored by those who are the object of the protest movement " (See Michel Chossudovsky, "Manufacturing Dissent": the Anti-globalization Movement is Funded by the Corporate Elites, September 2010)
What this examination of the Wikileaks project also suggests is that the mechanics of New World Order propaganda, particularly with regard to its military agenda, has become increasingly sophisticated.
But you can't (collect unemployment forever). You're gonna be on food stamps forever. And ever and ever.
Well, at least the people who refuse to hire will end up paying you for the privlege of their arrogance. That's just the fact of the matter, no matter how bad it sounds. Of course, they can always choose against it by hiring them, directly.
Irony, at that.
Wow, 8 junks so far. Congrats. Me thinks a few benefits have run out.
C'mon, they have enought to afford Internet. They also have time to surf the Internet rather than look for a job.
"They also have time to surf the Internet rather than look for a job."
Seven junks for saying the truth?
I would love for these junkers to step forward and explain how they've been whiling away the hours.
Did they use the time to attend a vocational school?...or further their education in their chosen field?...pursue the possibility of opening their own business?...while out drinking beer & fishing did they entertain the idea of taking up commercial fishing?...or decide they suck at it and their thoughts turn to being a paid beer taster?
Further, I would like to know, if when the financial collapse was upon us, were they some of the ones who were screaming "we must do something" thus giving cover/aid & comfort to the Wall Street bailouts...or when the "shovel ready jobs bill" was being debated, were they slobbering at the mouth screeching "we must do something"?
When everyone got their pantie's in a wad over Arizona passing a law that mirrors the exisiting federal law, were they some of the ones howling raaayyycism?
That's what I want to know.
No, you were both junked for ignorance. Lots of companies post fake IT jobs to discourage American workers so they can cry no applicants and skirt the H1B quotas. Neither one of you has a fucking clue what suffering unemployment when you want to work is like.
Well here's one now ;-)
You speak of ignorance...tell me...how does a company posting a fake job prevent you from moving on to something else, perhaps even more lucrative?
Are you saying you're untrainable or unmotivated?
a) training is free in time or monetary costs
b) the industry you move to won't be offshored in your lifetime.
c) that you can find something in that new industry
Right now a,b,c are all not in your favor. If they aren't going to hire you, why should one bother with your own route? The only good solution is to kill the fraud that offshoring depends on, completely. Or at the very least make it impossible to ignore or work around hiring the long-term unemployed.
a) training is free in time or monetary costs...if you are unemployed time is one thing you have in abundance.
b) the industry you move to won't be offshored in your lifetime...every job I have ever had in my life led to another job or added to my worth as an employee somewhere else...even in a different field.
c) that you can find something in that new industry...again, you don't have to work FOR anyone...one of the best jobs I ever had (as far as freedom/not answering to anyone, leaving aside the paperwork involved and required by government) was when I opened my own business. A more lucrative position (monetarily) came open after a couple years so I closed it. While the new job paid more, I lost some independence...it's a trade off.
I'm not without compassion...I've been out of work...it sucks. But 99 weeks is ridiculous. I would go insane (maybe more insane than some here think...LOL) sitting around on my ass all day...I've found I can stand it for about a week.
It's important to remember actions have consequences, I remember how a former president talked about "a new economy" and started offshoring in earnest with a brand new treaty. That wasn't an evil corporation that signed that treaty. That was a president elected by the people, twice.
Already well past the 99 week mark(113) as of this post. I don't like it either (and do keep quite busy) but I don't see the private sector cooperating. Their tax dollars could be going to something more productive for these people, but they seem to choose against it every time. Some even make sure that those past 99 weeks should be forsaken for any prosperity, deserving only a hand-to-mouth existence. For all the effort to keep people from stable and permanent work, it would cost less just to simply make the long-termer not so(even if by legal prohbition against using time of non-employment).
if you are unemployed time is one thing you have in abundance.
Only on smaller scales of time is that true. Larger scales of time, not so much.
...every job I have ever had in my life led to another job or added to my worth as an employee somewhere else...even in a different field.
Not sure what you're meaning by this. If you're trying to suggest that drudgery work (aka the stuff that would be a financial loss to have) has some value, I'd have to disagree.
You presume that everyone has the same ability to suspend morality, a requirement of running a business. I don't have that, and know that I have such a moral incompatibility.
Tom Eckert: Boys! Avenge me! Avenge me!
This is a very good question.
I wonder that too as I sit home collecting unemployment.
Sure, but even folks who don't NEED a job might like one!
Let's imagine you are one of the xxxK SSEs (senior software engineers) in their 50s who have had their positions outsourced to India, Malayasia, or wherever. ( i just happen to know several.) You are competent and made decent six figures. UI is 20-25K max in most states, maybe you "jump through the hoops" to collect it, maybe not. You never had to look for a position before, just decide whether a 20-30% increase in salary offer was worth the disruption of moving and the learning curve.
You have mining stocks, PM's and high cash flow apartments, and the mortgage is paid off. You don't have to work, but you would enjoy it. However, noone wants to hire a 50+ white person, who speaks english without an accent, even at half their former salary. There are few positions to apply for and most are given to immigrants or temp filled with H1Bs. Most of the HR and HM in the corps speak english with a heavy accent and hire accordingly. After about two years you decide to stop wasting time looking for a position and start preparing full time for the incoming scocio-economic clusterfuck.
(Of 18 i know who were laid off two years ago, 8 are working. 4 locally, and 4 moves, one foreign. Of these, half took significant salary cuts, and all were hired by 12/09. One "retired" and bought a sheep ranch. The other nine would still like work in their field, but don't think it will happen.)
That only makes the point of outsourcing's bad qualities that much more deep. For such an honest idea, why does it take fraud to perpetuate it?
Is there a Canadian equivalent to shadowstats, or are our numbers actually realistic?
CBC and CTV used to report on them in the early 90's, but it's been a long time since the media has had any real interest in informing the general Canadian population on anything in general. In Ottawa you can tell the health of the economy by counting for lease signs and the wicked turn over on sparks street. Main drag downtown in a civil servant town with zero...read it...zero private sector other than contract firms selling into the federal government.
Then again Ottawa is a dump and there are better places to do business, but when Canada's unemployment rate was around 24% in 1992, when people were on the highway holding signs on the 417 for a job (some even got one). Sparks street was mostly boarded up except for a couple of places.
When attempting to decipher Canadian unemployment rates it goes like this. EI announces the number which is standing at 7.6%, those are only people that have collected enough weeks to qualify for EI.
Then there are those on welfare, Canada keeps roughly 6-8% of it's working adults on welfare at any one point in time. They aren't counted in the final tally. Funny thing is nobody is pointing at that number anymore saying we have to do something about it.
Then students, which aren't counted at all because they don't make enough hours to even qualify for EI, but the government is quite happy to take their money in a slush fund scam. THey rated the taxation levels on incomes under 10k. Funny thing is EI didn't change and CPP certainly changed...a lot.
Then the working poor. Those working less than 32 hours a week are under the "part time job" classification. Nobody noticed that little POS the government pushed through in 2007, but it gave me no end of grief as an employer.
Then the current situation is asking me as the business owner to pay into EI. Like I could ever, EVER, collect EI because I'm self employed. So next year I'm looking at 8k to the government that I'll never see a dime of.
Fuck it. I'm firing everyone and offer contracts the next day. Make sure I point people towards where I buy my medical and dental because as the boss I'm not allowed to be on the same group health policy because I'm not by definition an employee, but an owner. I'll offer consultation on where to get incorporated, where to find a good accountant and where to find a dental/medical package for under 4 grand.
Fuck I hate Canada, can't wait for retirement to leave this dump forever.
You did not even mention the over $40 BILLION that the feds scooped out of the 'UI'...Unemployment Insurance... fund when they renamed it EI ...Employment Insurance and threw most people who pay in off the eligible list.
That whack of the People's Money just went into gen. rev. to pay back the local bank/gangsters*.
* Goldman Sucks alumnus runs Bank of Canada.
They got the Bernank , we got the Dodge .
They have been doing it every year since, they change the rules by fractions, shit they pushed through some nonsense about being in unions and not recieving UI if there were conditional arrangements with government bond holdings and pensions involved. One of the reasons our other local resident Canuck Leo is jumping up and down about Nortel and it's pensions. What people don't understand in that situation is Nortel was Bell Northern Research and a fuck load of the old alma mater were pensioned employees, under govie ma Bell pensions.
Plus the bunch of them are playing with the Harmonized Sales tax. I would love them to open the books someday if it wasn't illegal to do so after 9/11. With the current economic crap going on, the information is locked down even tighter. All I see are reminders from CRA weekly that something they passed is in effect and I have to cough up more dough. It almost like the government is forcing my hand to push people that work for me into contract positions like the early 90's
There is little in Canada that is original or socially constructive other than the media proclaiming it so.
TheSteve sure has got his nose deep up the butts of them USSA ...Tony Soprano type... Crime Bosses that like to think they run both countries.
The9/11 covers all the crimes... as if Enron never was ... is a myth that never happened.
Don't be you be bringing up The9/11 in a SmokeyQuinn Thread or he will be accusing you of being me...
Man, your pols are as corrupt as ours. Lamposts for Canada!!
seems the rules have changed...folks getting junked now have something important to say. It must be All you FOX, Rupert Murdock employees who are doing the junking for your master.
"Fuck I hate Canada, can't wait for retirement to leave this dump forever."
I'm sure the Great White North feels the same way about you, eh.
Hell no. CRA has assholes fingering me and the accountants every quarter. They even bill me for the pleasure of their time via taxes...taxes on everything. There isn't a single item I can name that isn't taxed. Even the air is taxed now, I figure the sun will be taxed soon enough.
All to be considered "free". How long would I remain "free" if I opted to not pay any taxes? At least until the end of my fiscal quarter. My businesses were made by me. Never took out a loan or asked for handout. It was all my time and my effort. What happens in Canada? If I did a rough calculation I would say 70% of whatever the business takes in flys out the window to government...or in reality...government debt.
Yah, welcome to the club, it's not exclusive. At least not in any country with a modicum of social conscience.
But I ain't complainin' where I am at; if bean-counters say we're still in the black everything else is just the good ol' 'cost of doing business'. Suck it up buttercup.
And IMHO, Canada still has far more truly beautiful places left than it has 'dumps' (decent beer too). Which is a fuck sight more than I can say for a lot of places I've had the privilege of visiting.
Buck Up or ship out b'y; why don't you try to run a business in Equatorial Guinea? I hear the only taxes/regulations there are to make sure you butter MBASOGO's bread on the right side, or else you get a public stool pushing (and I'm not kidding, either).
Yeah, I bet we'd find out real quick on which side of the fence you found the grass greener if you tried that one...
The US also does not count welfare into the unemployment statistics, for various reasons. Most welfare determinations have to do with discrimination or incapacity, whether racial, gendered, age-related, or handicapped in origin (the latter can include handicaps related to self-induced obesity, heart conditions, diabetes, drug addiction, AIDS, other sexually related diseases, as well as the more commonplace workplace injuries, birth defects, and non work-related accidents or assaults).
Students are another matter. When I was an undergraduate, lo those many years ago, I had a campus job (and a prestigious one at that, even though it paid butkis). In the US, all earnings are reported to the dear old IRS, and taxes are [now] owed above a certain minimum. In 1971, my freshman year, I had to file a tax return. I had earned next to nothing; I worked between 5-20 hours/week, at, if I recall correctly, something like $1.30/hr., and only when the Department required me. I also had a summer job that paid slightly above minimum wage, by perhaps 25 cents per hour.
These earnings were far exceeded by my tuition costs, which amounted to around $5k per year back then, and nearly $6K by the time I graduated in 1975; they barely paid for my books and incidentals. After taxes, they did not even do that.
CPL, just a couple of thoughts. Why not pay yourself dividends instead of wages, as a director... I do that now, I earn the first chunk TAX FREE and the remainder is at a kinder tax rate - and NONE to EI...
Also if you are married you can have your wife/partner as a director as well that can do the same, thereby doubling the TAX FREE part.
Ask your accountant about dividends rather than wages...
Over 17 years of running an incorporated business I've done all the tricks, I have two accountants in my employ to handle that.
BTW Dividends fall under capital gains and are capped at 475k in a total lifetime, after that it means nothing in terms of savings tax wise. Wife and I ran out of that option eight years ago. That includes only paying yourself 36k a year. I haven't made more than 36k a year as a salary for nearly 20 years. House and cars are paid for and used so it doesn't take much to live.
In fact the only people that have worked for me that make a little less than me are the co-op students I employ. RRSP's are a waste of time, who seriously socks money away with a million restrictions and penalities around it. It's a nazi savings account for people that like taking money out of circulation and being handed back a bag of nothing. Imagine if instead of people falling for that suckers scheme 15 years ago, most of them would have their homes paid or nearly paid. Once the house is done, then the real brick work of saving money can start to happen. Plus the person would have paid WAY less in terms of dollar strength. Plus if they sold the house now it wouldn't have been taxed. Versus the RRSP scam the Gov't of Canada offers.
The Solution is simple. Tank the company and put contract tenders for the exact same positions up with new job titles up the next day. Out source 30% of the positions overseas which allows me to escape penalities because that's allowed, in fact I've been told by my lawyer and accountants, encouraged. Then set up a company title transfer to somewhere else in the world.
I hear Equatorial Guinea's gov't 'discourages' the formation of unions. Why don't you make a new start there?
Yup, or go Galt.
Now you wonder with all that dirty pool, you call that a solution? You're just part of the problem by giving people a reason to want to use the government to make sure that can't happen. Never mind all the distrust that comes by becoming more out of touch with the people that do the work. The government just happens to be a weapon of last resort, when the private sector is out of touch with the people that do the actual work.
With all that fraud you advocate, you only make the situation worse by making someone disposable. One would only hope that all that trickery pays you back in a not-so-good way. That might not be favorable to you, but passing on more risk to people without reward (via contracting out) always deserves to backfire.
I'm surprised there's not something against intentional scuttling. There needs to be, for your exact situation. Otherwise, I would hope for your sake that every single t is crossed, and every i is dotted for the rest of your life.
Then hope that you live to the end of that day, for you are part of that problem. You are not more holy because you run a business; expecting such is to ask for yourself to become royalty at the expense of others.
Disposability and temporary work are things that should have died a horrible death. Unfortunately, you want to bring back things that should remain dead and buried.
If you run a business with more than 10 people in Canada with professional job titles, the government makes it very much worth your while in terms of tax credits to offshore most if not all of the work.
So instead of capitulating you should try resisting, which can be as simple as writing a letter. Or is your conscience simply not that active? Too much of a hassle to interject a monad of civic responsibility into your daily deluge of luxury?
Indeud, you are truly 'so hard done by'...
I missed the part where he was asking for veneration.
Wherever you have staffing industries protecting the employers more than the people that do the work, you have that. In places that prefer such industries of disposability, veneration of the employer is for the sake of having your contract renewed. This is just like your company town, except without the town or the debt.
See FedEx, Honda, and the deep preferences of the American Staffing Association for protecting the employers for US examples.
I'd imagine that Canada has similar examples and is further down the whole "let's screw regular individuals by permatemping people!" track that other parts of the world (outside the US) use.
When did profitability somehow get disconnected from giving a damn?
First of all, it's my business and I can do with it as I please. If my business became a matter of public trust then you would see me do nothing, simply nothing. And that's what has happened.
Through government taxation/forms and more forms and constantly being taxed retroactively (which should be so fucking illegal), I have such a level of disincentive that I do not care to participate anymore. At one point I thought I could change it by being political and attempting to influence MP's and MPP's. That did nothing. So I joined up with a group of business people to attempt the same thing in terms of lobbying. Didn't work. Just more lip service and more retroactive taxes that had to be paid.
For the taxes last year paid, i could have tripled my staff. Tripled my sales force. Tripled the expansion. But no, this is Canada. Taxes first, then figure out cash flow. Which is a very dangerous situation. One month I'm solvent, then retroactive tax collection. The next month I'm fucked.
So, since my company is NOT a public trust and I'm at the point where the taxes are a bit too much to ignore, combine that with owning a business and watching practically everything happen under the sun with bad hires.
I think I'm just tired of running a business here. So Jan 3rd, they are all canned, I shipwreck the place by not attempting new contracts and I just stay on the company payroll. Or I sell it. Another guy i know in the area dumped his company last year and his stress level has gone from 10 to 0 and he's liking his life now. He only has one form to fill out now. T4 and that's it.
When I hear things like that, I see the collateral damage. Run it however you like, but be mindful of the consequences - that's what I mean by "giving a damn". It has nothing to do with being a public trust, and everything to do with being careful with your nothing.
Have you heard of the phrase "not doing something, even though you could", applied in a slightly different direction? In this case, I am talking about closing it in a way that is neither a surprise(to the people who work there) nor a mass bridge-burning event. Do what you like, just be aware of how you do it.
If your aim is to frustrate a bureaucrat or a group of them, don't aim for the regular individuals. If you can manage to avoid collateral damage(or minimizing it as much as possible), those regular individuals will thank you. The key here is not to give the bureaucrat more reason to regulate even more.
I just see too many people with business sense that try to frustrate the bureaucrat, but end up taking a lot of regular people down with them(and not always removing the bureaucrat).
Don't you think a guy who's run a business as long as CPL has would know how to treat his employees fairly? You're simply making assumptions based upon your own projections for some unobvious slight you received in the past from a former employer of yours.
Besides, your line of attack completely misses the real target, which as CPL has tried to explain over and over again in lieu of your apparent lack of comprehension, is government.
Whatever happened to private contracts? If all I'm able to pay is one dollar a day, and someone is willing to work for me for a dollar a day, why should you or anyone else have the right to get in between me and that person and dictate otherwise?
Fuck you and all you statist buffoons that cry for the moon when the sun is shining.
I am Chumbawamba.
Thanks. I was about to go nuts thinking I was the only one thinking what you just said. The "taker" mentality is the norm now. Back in the 1980s when I actually had employees, they got together to "decide" what their holidays would be. I asked that they include an "Employers Day", wherein they come in one Saturday a year and work a day for free to say, "Thanks for the job!". My suggestion was met with dazed incomprehension at such an outrageous concept. Fuck 'em.
The way CPL said it, I'm not sure that he did. That said, it's a lot easier to find bad apples than good apples. I've been fortunate enough to have had a good set of employers and recognized the (increasing) rarity of them. It is hard to have good faith when there are too many incentives to act in bad faith.
If CPL does know how, then he took the more favorable path. In that case, the people that worked for him found out or figured out. What happens after they part ways is up to each individual.
As for the dollar a day bit, that'd be cutting a lot of corners for most non-trivial work. Nothing is going to stop you from paying that dollar or finding someone. The problem exists when that is applied to regular and complex work, such that cost reduction overtakes everything else(with the end result of a lower quality product or service). You aren't stopped from paying that dollar, but that cheapness will cost you.
I'm not sure that you understand that I've recognized that government wasn't helping. I was suggesting that he doesn't give the government any help. That was stated by how I said not to give a case for the bureaucrat to act. While it won't stop the truly determined bureaucrat from initially acting, it will make sure they do not last.
In all choices in life there is damage. That is part of growing up and getting older. Who knew that offering free food to african nations thirty years ago would have completely destroyed the ability of those nations to establish a reasonable farming practice. Yet to this day we "feed" Africa if only to keep the third sector very well heeled and paid. What might have started in an altruistic act has only turned into a 30 second soundbite so very well packaged it might as well be an iPod for women with too many cats, too much time on their hands and too much money.
Yes there will be blow back, but as those above acknowledge, they have EI to fall back on. Appearently it's my right as a business owner to pay it and rightly so. If someone pays into insurance as long as the terms and conditions are met, it should be paid. The folks that work for me will be cared for by the state.
I would offer them the company if they could arrange a buy out situation, but like most bone heads in North America they make a lot, save nothing and, saddly like 80% of the very well to do middle class in Canada, have been spending home equity like it was a debit card against property values. If they could scramble to buy me out, sure I would consider it but this isn't a movie. People moving in herds are stupid, I could lead you into a boardroom on business strategy sessions, these are people that couldn't organise a cat fight. What usually happens is the group throw out ideas, people argue over them, as a business owner i use them like the borg. The group throws around ideas, even if one wins in the group, I could give a shit. I'm looking for effective and cheap. This is what one of my industry peers did and is happy for it.
Option two, put the company up for sale. This takes a while. Only companies approaching me are Indian and Chinese companies that want an established mid-tier engineering company to get a solid foothold into Canada. You would not believe the amount of red tape around selling to someone outside the country with money. It costs a shit load and for the return it's frankly not worth it.
That leaves option three.
Shipwreck the place by finishing existing contracts, giving implicit instructions to not follow up on renewing contracts/chasing new business and being the sole paycheck to the piggy bank of my corporation because to off set taxation costs I would have to can half my staff anyways and ship the engineering over seas to an IT Curry Shop. So what would I have left in my company, sales people, a development team 7000 kilometers away (Indians aren't as cheap as the media makes them out to be btw), a receptionist and my accountants? I believe that model is called IBM, Microsoft, Apple, HP. Since I'm not interested in being publically traded nor getting over 80 people, I say fuck it, shut it down. People don't need an engineering firm looking out for their safety or building safe and useful things. The public needs its nose broken, which I'm more than willing to step out of the way for.
Government wants more money, they won't get a nickle more out of me than they have to. I'm not funding the morons anymore. I'm sure that as the tax creep happens, it'll slowly start to strangle more businesses out there until eventually plywood and nails will be in short supply boarding up the last of the builders out there. Canada already has in it head it will only do one thing. Sell every square inch of it's commodities business to anyone, anytime as fast as possible.
Sometimes, like trading stocks or hunting, the choice to not do anything is more effective than "picking a side". There is no side. Only the choice and the outcome. My choice is to do nothing, remove 80 taxed government profit centers down to myself, who makes next to nothing. By 2012, they won't even have corp to tax anymore because there will be no profit. Eventually someone else will be able to pick up the slack as people do in contracts.
//Sitting on the deck drinking a beer and watching it burn. Collecting names to bring to noose after it's all said and done.
Damned good comment and straight to the point. Having been an entrepreneur all my life I can do nothing but cheer your proposed action. I well remember a friend back in the 1980s who was making great money owning a propane gas rural distributorship and a small building supply. The place was a money generating fool. At one point he just threw up his hands and said, "I quit". His point was that if he made another dollar, 75 cents of it was going to the government (see past tax rates). He did a pump-n-dump to make the business look great -- and then sold it to an interstate natural gas company. Retired rich and disillusioned at the age of 50. He kept the building supply as a hobby and had fun with it but didn't care if it made a cent of profit. Those "buying trips" to the Dallas Trade Mart and to Mexico for "lighting fixtures" were a lot of fun -- and tax deductible. Thus hath the government wrought a generation of business assassinations.
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