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Guest Post: The Failure of the Second London Gold Pool
Submitted by Adrian Douglas of Market Force Analysis
The Failure of the Second London Gold Pool
This article is a sequel to my article entitled “Gold Market is not “Fixed”, it’s Rigged” which is essential reading before reading this article. The previous article demonstrated that had a trader consistently bought gold on the London AM Fix and sold it the same day on the London PM Fix and repeated it every day from April 2001 through to today the cumulative loss would be $500 per ounce. Yet gold has been in a bull market during that time and a “buy and hold” strategy over the same time period would have returned a gain of $950 per ounce.
I have termed the arithmetic difference between the PM Fix and the AM Fix the “intraday change.” Figure 1 shows the evolution of the cumulative intraday change from 2001 to 2010 along with the gold price evolution as expressed by the London PM Fix price.
Figure 1 Cumulative Intraday Change & PM Gold Fix Price (2001-2010)
This chart shows that an entity (or more likely several entities) is consistently selling gold into the PM Fix in such large quantities that the selling suppresses the gold price to the extent that the cumulative intraday change is negative while the gold price has been increasing. The entity doing such selling must have access to a large amount of physical gold and must not be interested in selling for profit. The only possible culprit is a central bank or several central banks. As the central banks do not trade directly, there must be bullion banks who are acting on their behalf.
The London Gold Fix is conducted by the representatives of five bullion banks: HSBC, Deutsche Bank, Scotia Mocatta, Societe Generale, and Barclays. The “fix” is no longer conducted in an actual meeting but by conference call. The bullion banks’ representatives communicate with their trading floors and with each other during the conference call to find the clearing price at which all buying interest and all selling interest is balanced. When this price is determined the price is said to be “fixed”. This is exclusively a physical gold market activity. It is balancing the number of bars of gold for sale with the number of bars demanded for purchase at a particular price.
It follows that if buying and selling were matched at the AM Fix price but then the PM Fix price is lower, then significantly more gold is being offered for sale compared to demand at the time of the PM fixing. The trend of the cumulative intraday change in Figure 1 shows that the selling into the PM Fix is manipulative because it has consistently countered the primary trend of the market and has proportionately increased as the gold price has increased. The PM Fix is the target for manipulation (price suppression in this case) because it stands as the global bench mark price at which physical gold trading is done until the following AM Fix, -- that is, a period of 19 ½ hours each day.
Though the official London Gold Pool disbanded in 1968 when it suffered massive outflows of bullion trying to frustrate free market forces that were manifesting themselves as insatiable demand for the metal, someone is now operating, albeit covertly, a second London Gold Pool. However, what I will show unequivocally in this article is that this “Second London Gold Pool” is about to suffer the exact same fate as the first one did.
Figure 2 Peaks Marking Climax of Increased Selling into the PM Fix
In figure 2 the same data as in Figure 1 is presented except it has been truncated to October 2008. The solid blue line shows that there is a long-term trend in the evolution of the intraday price change that is responsible for the general suppression of the price. However, what is also apparent is that there are many occurrences of the cumulative intraday price change deviating downward from this baseline trend and returning back to the trend. These are periods of concerted and increased dumping of gold into the PM fix. The red vertical lines mark the turning points of maximum departure of the cumulative intraday price change from the solid blue line that defines the average long-term trend. In other words, these lines mark the climax of selling into the PM Fix. It can be noted that these lines intersect the PM Fix price curve at almost exactly the lows immediately following a price peak. This means that when the intensity of selling into the PM Fix increases (an increasing downward excursion of the blue curve away from its trend line), the gold price makes an intermediate top, and when the intensity of selling into the PM Fix recedes (the blue curve returns toward its trend line), the gold price makes a bottom.
This is not a matter of traders selling into the market to take profits when the price reaches an interim top, because the selling is consistently forcing the PM Fix price to be lower than the AM Fix even during price rallies. The selling is clearly conducted such that when considered over several days buying between the fixes is not allowed to be more dominant than selling. It can be seen that after each selling climax buying emerges which carries the cumulative intraday change back toward its long-term negative trend line (solid blue line). I would speculate that at least part of this buying is made by the same entities that did the selling.
Figure 3 Gold Price Declines Induced by Increased Selling into the PM Fix (2001-2008)
Figure 3 shows how each episode of increased selling into the PM Fix had the desired results for the central banks and the anti-gold cartel of bullion banks: The gold price declined from the green dot to the corresponding red dot.
Figure 4 Gold Price Declines Induced by Increased Selling into the PM Fix (2001-2010)
In Figure 4 the data from October 2008 to August 2010 has been added. The gold price peaked on 2/20/2009, marked by the green dot labeled “1”. True to form massive selling then emerged in the PM Fix on a continual basis. The intent was probably to make the gold price decline along the trajectory indicated by the red dashed line to suppress it back to the long-term trend defined by the black dashed line. The cumulative intraday price change would then have most likely returned to the long-term trend line (solid blue line) on a trajectory indicated by the blue dashed line.
But things have gone horribly wrong for the manipulators. The gold price did initially decline to the point marked by a black dot, which occurred on 4/24/2009; but then the gold price abruptly reversed upward. As a consequence the manipulators ramped up their dumping of gold into the PM Fix as shown by the plunging cumulative intraday price change.
This has continued for 16 months and the gold price has stubbornly resisted these attempts to overwhelm free market forces of strong physical gold buying. To date the climax of the selling into the PM Fix occurred on July 28, 2010 and the gold price on that date is marked by the yellow dot and labeled “2”. It is $220 higher than the point “1”, where increased selling into the PM Fix commenced.
This is the first time in nine years that the cycle of increased selling of gold into the PM Fix has failed to bring down the price of gold. The arrogant central bankers and their bullion banking cronies are reliving their nightmare from the London Gold Pool of 1960’s, where they erroneously thought they could out-gun free market forces.
What is intriguing is what happened on 4/24/2009, the date marked with a black dot, which unleashed massive new physical demand that has overwhelmed the scheming Western central banks. On April 24, 2009, China announced that it had accumulated 454 tonnes of gold over the previous five years, bringing its reserves to 1,054 tonnes. China had instantly let the genie out of the bottle. If China had been acquiring gold secretly for five years, then every other central bank and large investor was behind the curve. Serious buying immediately appeared but this was clearly buying by a very different type of buyer. These buyers are not only insensitive to the anti-gold cartel’s intimidation tactics of dumping gold to suppress the price but they actually welcome it as it allows them to buy more gold at discounted prices.
Figure 5 Gold price Suppression is Failing
In Figure 4 the solid blue line trend indicates that there is a continuous “background” suppression of the gold price that drives down the PM Fix with respect to the AM Fix. In addition there are periods of increased selling activity that cause the cumulative intraday price change to deviate below the solid blue line trend. In Figure 5 the blue curve represents only the deviation from the declining trend. This means that the curve represents periods of increased intensity of selling into the PM Fix. The baseline is the dashed horizontal blue zero line which means that at that level the suppression of the gold price is uniform and corresponds to the data following the solid blue trend line of Figure 4. The downside excursions from the horizontal indicates periods of panic dumping into the PM Fix that coincide with “flare ups” in the gold price. Once the manipulation has succeeded in knocking back the gold price to what is presumably a more acceptable rate of ascent for the manipulators, the blue curve returns to the zero level again.
However, it is clear from the chart that since 4/24/2009 (marked with a vertical dashed black line) the anti-gold cartel has entered a new phase. It is their equivalent of “Houston, we have a problem.” And do they ever! They have ramped up their dumping of gold into the PM Fix to a level that exceeds even what was dumped to bring down the price in 2008, but the gold price refuses to yield. Judging by the way the market was managed until 2009, if the gold price could be brought back into line, it would already have been done.
The fuse is lit. This is a covert London Gold Pool that is about to fail as catastrophically as its predecessor did in 1968.
Notice how large and aggressive the selling of gold into the PM Fix was between the points marked by “A” and “B” in Figure 5. This corresponds to a period from 12/2/2009 to 3/30/2010. The bullion banks would need a lot of extra bullion to conduct such an attempted “shock and awe” bombing of the gold market.
Where did this gold come from?
I wrote an article recently entitled “gold manipulation scheme is coming unraveled”. This article discussed how 346 tonnes of gold that were part of a hushed-up swap arrangement between the Bank for International Settlements (BIS) and more than ten bullion banks were essentially a bail-out for the bullion banks concerned. We now know why these banks desperately needed such a vast amount of gold. Together with approximately 15 tonnes of gold being sold surreptitiously by the International Monetary Fund (IMF) each month since February this year, it is new ammunition in the war they are waging on the gold price.
The BIS gold swap occurred in the first three month of 2010 which falls in the period marked by “A” and “B” in Figure 5. The evidence of significantly increased dumping of gold that coincides with the timing of the BIS gold swap (the largest in history) is damming, to say the least. However, the mobilization of this gold is futile. When anything in a market goes parabolic, it is unsustainable. The bullion banks on behalf of their Western central bank masters are dumping gold into the PM Fix at such a rate that the cumulative daily price change between the AM Fix and the PM Fix is becoming more and more negative in a parabolic blow-off.
It looks like the demise of the gold price suppression scheme is very close at hand. Over the years GATA has uncovered a lot of anecdotal and circumstantial evidence that the Western central banks have been dishoarding gold at an unsustainable rate in order to suppress the price. This is the first concrete evidence that, just as GATA has long been predicting, the gold price is set to blow up because physical demand for gold is overwhelming the manipulators’ ability, or willingness, to provide it.
The result of the 1968 failure of the London Gold Pool to suppress gold was an appreciation of the gold price from $35 to $850 per ounce. A similar percentage today would carry gold to almost $30,000 per ounce. This is not a price forecast but an indication that when free market forces have been frustrated by market manipulation for a very long time, the equilibrium price can be many multiples of the suppressed price, and the rise is typically rapid when the suppression is overcome.
The opportunity to acquire bullion before prices go dramatically higher is disappearing fast.
Adrian Douglas
Editor of Market Force Analysis
Board Member of GATA
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Once again the above proves nothing, it is the overnight trading that is more likely to be manipulated. Thus the PM price is probably the true market clearing one.
GATA = propaganda. Take with large grain of salt.
"..it is the overnight trading that is more likely to be manipulated."
Got any evidence for that statement or is that just your opinion?
Same evidence as the above, just interpreting it with an open mind. I remember Tyler posting articles showing that SPY is up much higher overnight than intraday as evidence of TPTB manipulating it higher. Yet the same anomaly is in the gold market, and the conclusion is that it is being manipulated lower.
Why is it that the overnight trading in gold is correct and intraday manipulated, when it is just as likely to be the other way around? Maybe the powers really want a higher price?
Yet the same anomaly is in the gold market, and the conclusion is that it is being manipulated lower.
For your amusement:
The Architect tells Neo that there have been multiple versions of the Matrix and multiple versions of the One, a computer anomaly used as a means of control. As humanity rejected the "perfect" Matrix as well as the dystopian Matrix, the machines realized that humanity needed to be offered the power of choice in order for them to accept it. The current Matrix is flawed and remains an unbalanced equation. The One is the sum of the remainder of that flaw. The One's purpose is to return to the Source, resetting the Matrix to its prime program.
You've just stuck a mobius slip knot into my brain. It's beginning to hurt.
A wonderful illustration of the power of The Matrix series for those who wish to look beyond the small boxed perception we're trained and conditioned from birth to behold as the one and only reality. Thank you for downloading that little gem from the field for my review and amusement.
the whole speech is a bit worrisome with current affairs the way they are especially: "Otherwise, the unresolved error will spiral out of control, destroying the humans connected to the Matrix, which coupled with the battle at Zion, will result in the extinction of the human race."
Zion of course being Israel.
Frank,
I just posted this on another thread. Let me set it down here as an off topic intrustion. Your thoughts? :>)
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/retail-investors-dont-care-if-stocks-are-or-down-retail-just-wants-out-record-15th-weekly-ou
----------------------------
When I let my mind drift with the wind by releasing my belief system and allowing myself to ponder possibilities, I often come back to earth with one reoccurring interesting idea.
Reality is not static. Reality is the constantly changing product of our perception and beliefs. There has been this feeling I've had for awhile that the powers that be are winding us up for a climax, a crescendo of massive change that's long been in the planning stage.
I won't beat a tired horse with links or books. For those with an open mind, it's clear that the world may not be controlled but most definitely is constantly influenced, poked and prodded towards open cattle shoots and loading pens. Since the fastest way to change reality its to change perception, while I don't believe all the doom and gloom being put out by the mainstream media regarding 2012, I do know that this concerted effort is not an accident or simply the media frenzy feeding upon the latest greatest. This is coordinated and accelerating.
At the same time, the collapse of the financial system is accelerating, not so much because it's naturally decaying but because it's being pushed in that direction with deliberate actions and policies. This is also irrefutable. They're deliberately not attempting to "fix" the economic system but are in fact destroying it.
So if one wanted to shove dramatic and lasting change down the throats of the world's citizens, it most certainly must come about by using fear, massive doses of fear, blindingly black fear of the type that sends chills down your spine and puckers your ass. So one might wish to mix a huge global currency crash with predictive TV media programming of the end of the world in 2012. I suspect that if this were to be choreographed well, many goals would be achieved.
Of course, this is all just a flight of fancy on a hot August afternoon.
I think we're both on the same phantom page on the book of observation. The Matrix was obviously an analogy. You'll love that Bad Boy Bubby movie... If you make it past the first half hour (that movie was banned in some countries)... you will find the speech in the power station particularly interesting, but I am sure you will "get" the whole movie as well, and be touched by it as I was.
I agree with you that something is being choregraphed or perhaps being allowed to happen... sorry, have to cut this short. back later.
Bad Boy Bubby will be in my mail box when I get home. It will hit the player after the shoes come off and the email is checked.
Thanks.
I have a theory I would like to discuss - but not here - frank_owen@hushmail.com
You can sign up for a free account at the same provider.
Check your in box.
It was the scenes with the cat, I couldn't watch. F that C of a movie! Of course, I'm supposed to say that.
I'm certainly not going to defend those scenes. According to IMDB "The feral cat killed in the movie was killed humanely by a vet, and not suffocated as depicted in the movie. The same cat was used both when it was alive and after it had been put to sleep. The kitten depicted to be killed later in the movie was not feral, and was not really killed, it was only sedated." It is unfortunate that those scenes were used as they would cause many to just turn it off right there, then again the film is really brutal throughout the first half hour or so. The film deals with a side of humanity that is thankfully rarely seen but cases do come up over and over again.
http://www.feralchildren.com/en/showchild.php?ch=twins
I would put this film in the same sort of catagory as A Clockwork Orange, which I turned off at the rape scene the first time I watched it. Sorry Adrian this stuff is pretty off-topic.
Ever seen The Living And The Dead?...thats another mindbender.
thanks, will check it out.
Like Deliverance, and Clockwork Orange, the film delivers. I don't hate the films because that would be like hating the messenger.
So it kind is on topic for me. Adrian is revealing something that is disgusting, and many might be inclined to react negatively to him instead of his message.
I have been having the same thoughts in the back of my mind. is this all being choreographed ? is everything an illusion being created - may be maybe not.
What, and their enforcers are Blackwater and Dyn Corp Mercenaries? Read an article about how these groups were used in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.(gut feeling says by outfits like BP too, but no proof) Would make sense. Private armies looking after private corporations.
Funny/scary side-note to the above. I recently signed up to the Parachute Regiment in the UK, and one of the possible task we could be assigned to alongside the obvious deployment overseas, was domestic disturbances where the Police are no longer able to control a situation. Always good to know
"Why is it that the overnight trading in gold is correct and intraday manipulated,"
Are you a complete moron? Overnight Gold is traded in HongKong where the Fed's powers have no effect. Western Central banks don't fix the price in Hong Kong.
As for why the market has been driven higher by SPY Futures traded at night: it's cheaper. You get more bang for your buck at night when, oh, America is asleep.
Seriously "BrianOFlanagan" you've got to stop drinking the Kool-Aid brother. Go out for a long walk and clear your head.
Sir,
Anytime you find a Kool-Aid swiller of this magnitude one of two things have generally occurred. Either the person is a shill/troll or the person has fallen into their own naval and they can't get out.
Life Call - "Help, I've fallen and I can't get up."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQlpDiXPZHQ
You don't think the fact that there are a shit ton of people in Asia who are purchasing physical gold on a daily basis might have something to do with it?
You do know the Chinese government has opened up retail gold stores, right?
have you always been stupid..is it something new???
yes of course they do, that'll be why they hold such obscene short positions and have been trying to control the price since the year dot..
honestly some people's powers of deductive reasoning are not too strong.
are you stupid just today..or is it something of an ongoing dimentia ??
No no he's right. We admit it.
Us asians have so much gold over this side of the world we don't know what to do with it. So we manipulate the price up during the day by not selling it to each other. We know that when you Western fools wakeup, you'll buy at our fiendishly manipulated higher Fu ManChu price, only gradually realising you have been duped as the day wears on. But then you forget again during the night. Soon you will have all our useless gold, and we will have all your priceless paper money. Mwaaa haaa haaa......
Reflation gauge is bullish (pdf).
"it is the overnight trading that is more likely to be manipulated. Thus the PM price is probably the true market clearing one."
How do you figure that one? Did you just pull that out of the air?
You are right about one thing, though:
BrianOFlanagan. "Take with large grain of salt."
I figured it through critical thinking and an open mind, something that is completely absent among the conspiracy crowd.
As Ayn Rand would have said, An open mind has not thought enough about the issue to form a conclusion or informed opinion.
Humpty Dumpty sat on a fence.
That doesn't mean you can't change your mind when new facts are presented before you.
"I figured it through critical thinking"
All I ask Brian is that when you do this "critical thinking" you don't hurt yourself.
I see. In other words, when one is presented with the theory that there might be a conspiracy, one must immediately reject this idea and instead search heaven and earth for some way, any way, to explain the evidence presented in another form, any other form, that refutes the theory of a conspiracy.
Watch out that you don't re-injure your hernia while performing those back flips.
The above article was so weak, no flips were needed to refute it.
Thus your hernia is safe and sound and your guts remain inside your body. I count that as a good thing.
What is that vile and rotten stench that I suddenly smell?
Ah yes ---- the unique and pungent aroma of troll. Quite unmistakeable, actually, once encountered on repeated occasions. It is, in fact, the anti-aroma of gold.
Again, what is this reflex of yours to call a "troll" anyone who disagrees with you?
Some people agree with your opinions, akak. Some disagree. GET OVER IT!
Said the two week old troll to the ZH community.
Right, cognitive, because you are just soooo much wiser than anyone else on here, right? Cause you're the oldest and most learned man in the world. You're the super-guru at the top of the tallest mountain! Tell me, is it a burden to know it all? Must be taxing.
And when I've been here for a year, shoveling the shit you spew right back at you, you can lord it over me that you have 2 years of ZH membership to my one.
Your attempt to assume a new identity here does not fool anybody, Johnny ol' boy. Your mind is still full of mush, as you demonstrate over and over, no matter what identity you chose to use on that particular day, by your repeated strawman argument of positing that the calling out of demonstrable trolls is merely due to their "disagreement" with those calling them out. In reality, asshole, you will note that many people disagree with me here, and I with them, yet in the vast majority of such cases, the word "troll" is never used.
Your innumerable logical fallacies continue to undermine your pathetically weak arguments, as well as clearly suggest just who you really are underneath whatever latest alias you are posting.
Can we just quash the name-calling. The thing I like most about ZH is that silly ideas are quickly pummeled with evidence to the contrary. Fuck group-think. Of course there are paid shills here encouraging infighting and the eternal waste of time re-explaining the logic of the position most of us hold or at least contemplate holding. Despite all that, there are real new red pill-swallowers joining daily who need to hear more than just: asshole, troll, etc. Whatever. What do I know?
ZH strawman mascot FTW!
I think akak has that word pre-programmed on his keyboard. Press [F1] for "strawman", press [F2] for "troll", etc., etc.
touche`Brian
dare not say anything against the gold nuts though.. appreciate your comments
But only after taking the blue pill, right.
You can tell the difference because the red pill makes you sick at first, vomiting is normal.
If you don't feel any different afterward, then the experience did nothing; no changes were made.
You sound like somebody who is terrified of being wrong. To help with this fear, you must seek it out. You must fall, and if you survive the fall... a little graduation for your little mind.
is this idiot OFLANAFUCK taking the place of Johhny Bravo today...what misguided idiots are amongst us...
Some misguided idiots and some psyops. Mix thoroughly and dispense daily.
ZH is a powerful weapon against the powers that be and thus it must be undermined at every turn.
"Teresa Giudice Blames Bravo for Financial Woes" surely no relation but amusing.
http://www.popeater.com/2010/08/19/teresa-giudice-blames-bravo/
..
call it any name you like. Good to have the Real thing versus the promise.
You make a blanket pronouncement like YOU know something. Kinda like J.Bravo, nadler and the like. Kinda like the fish in the gulf is good to eat, theres no oil(all gone) and BP and the government is our best friend.
Thanks a bunch for looking out for us. Adrian Douglas did the work. You just make noise. Phfffttt
BrianOFlanagan why do you say this proves nothing? Prove that to me. Please prove why the PM price is more the True market price. Adrian Douglas went to great lengths to proove the PM price is manipulated downward. I don't think it could get any clearer. But maybe he's wrong. What's your evidence beyond the fact you said so?
TD: You may want to post this link, too. Egon von Greyerz from this morning.
For those of you who questioned Egon and his firm two days ago, here he is:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1569699046&play=1
and here's the earlier thread:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/matterhorn-asset-management-there-will-...
And Daryl Guppy Wed. Aug. 18 calling gold to $1320 and "smart" traders will stop at $1319.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232/?video=1569677526&play=1
And also:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232/?video=1569601951&play=1
"The fuse is lit. This is a covert London Gold Pool that is about to fail as catastrophically as its predecessor did in 1968."
Good, got my popcorn.
Kudos to Adrian. Though that is no substitute for body guards.
Great idea, big boy! This is better than watching the teevee. Apocalypse Now - The Gold Edition.
Just make sure that's REAL popcorn, and not a popcorn certificate. Now, lets get settled back in the La-Z-Boy and enjoy the scenes of this baby ripping loose.
As for me, I'll be sitting on my Leprechaun gold, munching the extra butter "Theatre Style" stuff.
I don't think it's gonna be a rocket launch though. More like letting a balloon loose and watching it find its freedom. Kinda like The Red Balloon. Maybe gold is sneaky like that clever little balloon.
We shall see, soon!
The next leg down ...
http://stockmarket618.wordpress.com
The Kelantanese government ran out of gold coins today, after only one day!
Please post a link if you've got one.
Not really much of of a surprise if this article is correct:
http://shopping.howei.com/index.php?route=news/news&news_id=1104
"Meanwhile, the operations manager of the Kota Baharu 2 Ar-Rahn, Siti Azian Ibrahim, said a total of 344 pieces of dirham and 50 pieces of dinar were offered for sale to the public today." Pretty limited supply.
Hmmm. Today's action in gold would seem to follow along with Adrian's theory.
I'm just going to cut and paste this all day long:
For all of you wondering WHEN this debt defaulting will begin I submit to you this evidence:
https://marketforceanalysis.com/articles/latest_article_081810.html
(Thanks Tyler for posting this on ZeroHedge)
My reading of this is that the Central Banks have lost control of the last plug in the creaking dike holding back an alternative currency that will wash away all debts.
Yes ladies and gentlemen the end is nigh, Central Planning is about to go the way of the dodo. Gold is the catalyst that will precipitate debt to fall from the system like crystals dropping from a super saturated liquid in a high school chemistry class:
Interest Rates and the Price of Gold are inversely proportional.
A rising Gold price will pull dollar holders into Gold because it's an alternative currency.
To keep dollar holders the Fed will have to raise Rates to attract them (like Volker did in 1980).
Rising Rates will pop the ridiculous USTreasury Bond Bubble.
And Worse....wait for it.....waaaaiiit fooor iiittttt.....cause the Treasury to "restructure" their debt.
UPDATE:
If the Fed loses control of the Gold Price then you might as well start burning your dollars for heat.
The market(not the Fed) will decide Interest Rates for the dollar by driving the price of Gold through the roof. People will see the hand writing on the wall and use their dollars to chase gold.
Gold holders will demand more and more and more dollars to sell their gold.
That means the value of the dollar will go down and down and down.
That means inflation will go up and up and up.
Literally it's game over. This is how it will end. And it could end any day now. Given the BIS Gold Swap was HIGHLY UNUSUAL it means they are down to their last bit of Gold they can throw over the wall.
Maybe it's over, but never underestimate the ability of the morally corrupt to continue the game somehow (ie. you're thinking as an honest person should, they do not think that way).
i.e. jackboots and truncheons are a growth industry...
If not seen, ZH had a mention on Blumberg this morning regarding the contrary Globman Sax gold calls...
ZH is slowing gaining street cred among the fawning corporate media shills.
There will come a time when we might just see the ZH web site and logo flash for a brief but glorious second on the Bloomie (and maybe even CNBC) TV screen, sandwiched in between glorious cleavage shots.
Also seen references to ZH from John Mauldin and Catherine Austin Fitts -- these are NOT media shills, but more 'mainstream' than 'fringe'.
When ZH shows up on CNBC, that will mean the fanblade-driven poop storm has begun. At least in my mind.
Catherine Austin Fitts actually had a guest article posted here on ZH some months ago. Wish I could find it. The ZH search function leaves a lot to be desired.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-gld-and-slv-disclosure-preci...
Thank you very much. I have now saved it so it will never be lost again, at least for me.
Curious where you guys think a credible reasonably priced online shop for gold is? I'm looking at Sprottmoney.com right now, is this related to Eric Sprott? They have a number of coins, any in particular that I should look for? I notice the American Buffalo has a pretty large premium over the others.
The cheapest place I've found is:
http://apmex.com/
I would recommend them as well. Fast delivery. I like Canadian Maples for the look, smaller size (more pure), and lower premium.
Also like apmex.com but there are also alternatives like goldmoney.com and goldswitzerland.com
tulving.com has better prices, but requires a larger investment.
Premiums on buffaloes are around 5% at reputable dealers, anything more than that is too much.
Brian,
Your mother lets you out of the house on your own?
What? You like to pay more than 5% over for a gold buffalo?
You buy Gold? But you think Gold is over-priced right? I mean if Central Banks aren't artificially suppressing the price then there's no reason to buy Gold as it's at about it's peak.
Basically Brian you're contradicting yourself. I know that's a big word for you. It means when you say something and then turn around and say another thing that is kind of the opposite of what you just said.
I am very much long gold (physical and paper) and plan to stay that way for a long time. Just don't believe most of the conspiracy theories.
If there is no conspiracy then I wouldn't touch gold. I wouldn't touch anything that has gone up %500 in 10 years. Only a fool would touch something that over bought. 10 years Brian, 10 years. Gold has gone up for 10 years don't you think that's enough of a bull market? How many Bull markets last more than 10 years in a row?
By your logic you should be selling Gold now, not buying. After all your confidence in what the Fed is telling you should lead you to believe they have everything under control. They will pull us out of this in one piece right?
Gold will continue rising as long as the dollar continues to be debased and alternative investment options remain unappealing. That will be a long time from now. I don't need conspiracies or fear to know that only gold will protect my wealth. It is a shame that the fundamental argument is being drowned out by the conspiracy theorists. If you care about fundamentals, see http://northeastbullion.com, my admittedly lame blog.
"As part of our business of investing in and brokering physical precious metals transactions"
Oh my God! You actually are in the Gold and Silver business and you don't see it. You're giving people advice! Caveat Emptor....You sound like Jeff Christian. He's the one who testified at the CFTC hearing trying to explain why position limits aren't needed in the Gold and Silver markets on the Comex. Guess what? The CFTC didn't believe him, in fact he was basically ridiculed by Bart Chilton for being so out of touch.
I was even so incensed by what Jeff Christian said I started a blog to explain exactly how wrong he is:
http://goldmatters.blogspot.com/
I can't believe it. I have to wonder how people so close to things can be so wrong. But you only have to look at other examples of "usefull idiots" to understand. Check out other "useful idiots" like yourself in this Peter Schiff Was Right video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw
I respect Brian's opinion and agree that I don't need suppression and manipulation of Au and Ag as a reason to buy but they seem somewhat apparent to me especially if all one understands are the quotes from Fed transcripts about leasing gold to suppress the price.
And BO', there are other fundmentals such as the decreasing yearly supply and the increased investment demand over jewelry, as well as central banks net buyers, etc.
Still...hard to believe that the magicians of money aren't trying to keep the curtain closed on the audience as they work their illusions in an attempt to maintain their illustrious positions of power.
I just don't buy it. I think the central banks could give two shits about the price of gold. If anything, the higher the gold price goes, the more "suppression" in ownership among ordinary people would happen as fewer and fewer people would be able to afford to own gold.
All that said, as the other poster stated, I like gold as an investment, but I decline a side of conspiracy to go with my juicy gold burger! :)
Another "useful idiot" can't see the forest for the trees. Serenity now....I am really living in a country of sheeple.
HL Menken please save me:
“No one in this world has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the American people.”
.
It matters little to me if there is a gold suppression conspiracy or not.
From what I read (a lot, but I'm no expert just ask Muir), gold should be at least 5% of anyone's wealth, assuming you have more money than you need to eat...
...
Each day that comes, I believe less and less that our .gov and our banksters will be able to keep the system together.
What to do? Start a business, are you CRAZY? Buy bonds? Buy stocks? Buy land (maybe)? Gold at least seems to offer protection. And if FOFOA is right... fofoa.blogspot.com
...
"As money comes in, I use at least some of it to buy gold."
DoChenRollingBearing -- Friend of Gold and Rolling Bearings for Decades
Yes, yes, I know. Anyone who doesn't buy your conspiracy theory is a "useful idiot" and part of the "sheeple". We are not worthy, oh DarkMath one.
And of course you fancy yourself as smarter than the vast majority of the American people. All egomaniacs do. Despising the common people is just so wonderfully Stalinist, dontchya think?
jakoye,
Gold is not an investment, it's insurance.
Want to Invest in Gold, play the markets, and the ETF's.
Fair enough. I get it that gold is "wealth insurance". Yes, I don't intend on selling my gold unless I have no other choice (WTSHTF!).
So you're right, it's not technically an investment, because I'm not really looking to profit off of it, per se (although one could define the "profit" of buying gold as ensuring one's wealth is extended into the future).
Thanks Temporalist, and I very much agree that manipulation is plausible. Hopefully, GATA is right and we see that great squeeze to $3,000 or whatever. But I wouldn't advise anybody to buy for that reason alone.
go to kitco.com and buy bars - a lot of people are paying huge premiums for highly polished coins on the premise that coins will be more liquid and less subject to confiscation in the future, I'm not so convinced by that - coins can and will be conterfeited, they will require assay certification just like any other form, and when TSHTF your slabbed BU63 buffalo isn't going to fetch +10% vs. my J&M bar
I've wondered about this. I've only bought coins, not any bars, because of the reason you cited above: I assumed they would be more liquid in the future.
But you believe bars would be just as liquid? I would love to hear you expand on that a bit more.
I think coins will be more liquid. But have a little bit of both.
I suppose the form matters less than the fact of just having it in one's possession, eh? :)
I have yet to buy silver, which I think is a big hole in my "position". It does make perfect sense to me that the currency of every day life if TSHTF (I *love* that acronym!) will be silver and not gold.
I need to rectify that situation! I guess I should buy a mix of coins and bars just to cover all the bases?
go to kitco.com and buy bars....... Seriously? You want your money going towards Jon Nadler's paycheck? Seems counter-productive to your interests.
Stick with Soverign Gold Coins, Eagles,Mapes,Roos, Krugs,Philharmonics,and you won't have that issue.
Also, only buy FROM REPUTABLE Dealers.............
BARS, is where you will get the assayed shit..............
I've used APMEX on multiple occasions. Seems solid. no pun intended.
Ship fast, and no issues..........recommend them also.
Only issue I have w/them, is no buying on weekends, except w/ credit cards, max $5k, and at the HIGHEST price.
Right now, almost everyone is doing the same though.
Lear is good, but take forever unless funds are wired..........
Gline, suks(IMHO)....always pushing high premium crap first, and if you say No Thanks, they try to educate you, like this is your first friggin picnic.
look at the tamp down in PMs; so obvious
LOL newsflash - obama suddenly interested in small business as the titanic summer of recovery sinks
Can somebody explain - in English - why any bank would be dumb enough to be short an asset that has gone up 500%? They've gotta have SOMETHING they're long on the other side , a derivative, a production commitment from a gold mine, something. Even producers like Barrick no longer hedge. Are they unaware we are in a bull market and the path of least resistance is higher? I mean, I'm long gold from ~$400 and it's in my safe. I'm also long "paper" gold for trading purposes. A selloff is just going to see me buying more. Who are they trying to fool?
Watch these 3 videos:
http://gata.org/goldrush21
Why would a bank short gold? Because they're acting as agents for the Central Banks who will take it up the ass if the Gold price rises.
Exactly.
But also remember that rising gold means less confidence in fiat. Less confidence in fiat means higher interest rates. Higher interest rates spell the final doom for many governments around the world, most importantly the U.S.
bingo! Look at any news release from the Fed - what is single most used word? "confidence"
(obligatory)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMRo5XCKddQ
When the FED (and other central banks) can electronically print "money" at zero cost and manipulatemarkets by being the market regulator while never being independently audited, quaint concepts such as "owning" or "price" or "value" have no meaning. None. Zip, zilch, Nada.
Lost "money" on a Gold suppression trade? I'll just print up some more "money" and make myself whole. Ain't life grand?
You assume that,in this particular case, that the quasi-governmental bullion bank(s) has only profit as their motivation for their actions. If their goal were not simply maximizing profit, but, oh, something like acting as surreptitious agents for the federal government and Federal Reserve to suppress the price of the precious metals, then their actions would make perfect sense, no?
What do they have that they're long on? Fictious and highly-fractionalized paper gold.
Who are they trying to fool? The people that still have faith in the paper promises.
Well, sounds like the best way to get the Fed's to show their cards is to pull a "Bunker Hunt" and take delivery. Why all these hedgie wedgies are buying GLD when they should be buying good delivery bars is a mystery to me. You'd think they would know how to foment a squeeze.
The bullion banks make it increasingly difficult to take delivery, there are extra fees involved, assay requirements, plenty of red-tape, and it was HSBC? that last year stopped providing private safekeeping services.
It's just SOOOOOO convenient and just a mouse-click to buy shares in GLD; why speculate in the real thing if you can trade a fictional representation from the comfort of your sofa?
Anyone here using the ETF's are their own worst enemy,( and our's!)if their holding physical.
Want the Bitch to fold, take delivery....if you haven't got Physical access, you do not own SHIT.
The more these bstds have to produce and deliver the quicker they fall.
perhaps the hedgies want to accumulate without driving the price up with a comex delivery squeeze, as adrian describes china, et al, doing. but that assumes GLD won't decouple from the physical price and thus fail. do the hedgies have good reason to believe that GLD won't fail, or are they going to get screwed? that's the mystery.
Check the chart on Silver from 1980, that's why. Totally worth the effort to corner the market.
This was an amazing analysis --- bravo Adrian Douglas!
While it does not provide the "smoking gun" that proves beyond all doubt WHO is doing the manipulation, it is rather damning in demonstrating that the manipulation IS and has been in progress ---- and is in the process of failing.
The next few months are going to be very interesting, I suspect.
All already foretold in Daniel 7.
He (US/British axis) must fall:
http://www.bibleinsight.com/beasts/lion2.gif
He (Chinese/asian axis) must rise:
http://images.caymangoldexchange.com/black/au/yearofthetiger1-20oz.jpg
http://www.propheticprecision.com/uploads/2/4/7/4/2474326/1563075.jpg
1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters. 2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea. 3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another. 4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it. 5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh. 6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it. 7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns. 8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.
Daniel 7
King James Version
Sounds like a job for the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
"Armaments, Chapter 2, Verses 9 to 21: "Oh Lord, bless this thy hand grenade, that with it thou mayest blow thy enemies to tiny bits --- in thy mercy."
Classic!
and lo, on the horizon a douche appeared. Verily I say unto ye, he who doucheth with me shall not die...
Ergot poisoning would explain such "visions."
Does anybody know why Barrick Gold (ABX) has earning -3.75 while Gold price being all time high? Does this company short its own products yet market went the other direction?
ABX aint there for the interests of the shareholders, boeing.
Stay well away.
I don't buy it. Just because people/institutions sell gold when the price is rising does not prove there is an effort to suppress the price of gold. It is natural that as the price increases, sales of the good would go up. The price will go down only when and if the number of sellers overtakes the number of buyers.
That has not happened yet with gold and I don't know when that tipping point will be. It's rather immaterial to me though, in the sense that I'm "long gold" and am more than happy to see the price rise, as this makes my gold more valuable. But I'm also not so pollyannish that I believe that the price of gold will always rise. I'm sure there are dips in store. But as many on here advise, price dips are just buying opportunities! :)
Am i dyslexic, or had this guy invented a new way of writing? Finding this article very hard to nail down.
...no its just me, need to eat.
So are these times EST or GMT
To go along with this take a look at;
Gold Manipulation: Central Banks Are Now in Deep Trouble.
By; Alasdair Macleod
http://www.financeandeconomics.org/Articles%20archive/2010.08.18%20Gold.htm
(this should happen in november 2010): Web Bot prediction: Silver Will Go to Parity With Gold
http://webabuser.blogspot.com/2010/08/web-bot-prediction-silver-will-go-...
Never happen GI.
DARKMAT said:
Oh my God! You actually are in the Gold and Silver business and you don't see it.
Sshhhtt!!
What are you trying to do...Boosting up bullion dealer ask prices? ;-)
DARKMAT said:
Oh my God! You actually are in the Gold and Silver business and you don't see it.
Sshhhtt!!
What are you trying to do...Boosting up bullion dealer ask prices? ;-)
There are certainly a lot of details like that to take into consideration.I read and understand the entire article and I really enjoyed it to be honest.
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