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Guest Post: A Former Marine's Outlook On Inflation, Life Expectancy, And Future Returns

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Submitted by Hedgeless Horseman

A Former Marine's Outlook On Inflation, Life Expectancy, And Future Returns

The details of the federal employees' pension system are not something that interests me, nor do I understand exactly how the US Treasury is borrowing money from it, and with little or no mention of it in the press.  Thanks to Zero Hedge, at least I do understand why the US government is forced to borrow money from its own employees, as both the monetary and political reasons have been covered on this site extensively. 

Recently, I have been thinking about a former marine I know that recently "retired" from the federal government after a couple of decades as an US postal inspector.  During his entire career in government service, he carried a weapon, and spent most of his time conducting narcotics investigations.  He has photos of himself beside giant mountains of cash and drugs that he had seized on raids.

Several months ago, before he retired, he shared a little bit about his financial situation; specifically that he has several hundred thousand dollars in a federal retirement account invested in U.S. treasuries.  He said it was essentially all that he and his wife had saved, and that he knew it was not going to be enough for him to truly retire, especially because they still have kids to put through college.  However, he said that if he went to Afghanistan for one year as a security contractor, then he could make enough money so that he would not have to work doing landscaping for the rest of his life, which is what he saw as his second option.  

Being a bit of an instigator, I asked this ex-marine/postal worker what his assumptions were regarding inflation, his life expectancy, and future returns.  He stared at me silently for an uncomfortably long time.  Please understand me when I say that this is not the type of man anyone would ever really want to piss off.  Think more R. Lee "Gunny" Ermey and less Cliff Claven.  I then realized that I should be more careful what I say, or risk being the messenger that is shot delivering bad news.

His response, when it finally came, surprised me.  He said, "I don't trust the government."  He then went on to explain that although he and his buddies were just a bunch of government hacks that had put in their time, they did risk their lives on a regular basis.  For that, the primary reward they were all promised, and did expect, was a federal pension.  We talked a little about the idea of his pension being denominated in US dollars, and the history of the US dollar's purchasing power, but it was an uncomfortable conversation for both of us, so we moved on to other topics.

A couple of months later I learned from the man's family that he had in fact deployed to Afghanistan.  I do not know what he is doing there, but I expect it is dangerous.  What I wonder is this.  Does this man know that the government is paying him (albeit indirectly through Xe or the like) combat pay by borrowing from his own retirement...the very same retirement fund with a NPV sufficiently small to cause this man to leave his own kids to fight other men's' kids half way around the world?  Does he realize that because it enables the Federal Reserve's QE and ZIRP policies, the government is responsible for the inflation and low treasury yields that will likely make it so that even with a year's worth of combat pay this man will very likely still end up mowing bankers' lawns for the rest of his life?  If he does not know this, now, I most certainly do not want to be the one to tell him.

He said, "I don't trust the government." 


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Thu, 05/26/2011 - 15:26 | 1314008 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I thought they were fighting for our freedom over there? 

TSA "Pat Downs" - Taste the Freedom

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 15:53 | 1314113 MisterAmbassador
MisterAmbassador's picture

The American military may one day (very soon) be ordered to point their guns not at foreign people off in some distant land most of us would have a hard time finding on a geographic map but at fellow Americans in Los Angeles, Denver, Kansas City, Chicago, New York...

I trust that our military is still on the side of We the People.  I trust that our military is beholden and loyal to the Constitution of the United States of America above someone with the title commander-in-chief who may issue orders contradicting that document.  I trust that our military holds themselves to a higher standard than "just following orders".

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 15:56 | 1314135 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Unfortunately I personally know many veterans and enrolled military and many of them can compartmentalize their needs to support their family against what they are doing to innocent people, regardless of nationality, race, or geographic location.

Hell, I know one that just enlisted and he is so excited to be deployed ASAP because the combat pay is so much higher. 

Fortunately we have the Oath Keepers, Iraq Veterans Against the War, and a variety of other veteran groups that support the people over the kleptocracy, but those numbers pale in comparison to those willing to kill for a debt note to a central bank.  

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:02 | 1314151 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

FYI - look at the ranks of the "protest controllers" in for the G20, DNC, and RNC of last presidential election.  Just take a wild guess where they were recruited from?  Hint - they don't care about anyone but their needs and those that they percieve to be getting in the way of those needs.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:21 | 1314231 MisterAmbassador
MisterAmbassador's picture

Of course there are some, maybe many like that.  But, even they must still believe on some level that they are "defending America" or "defending freedom" or something bigger than themselves because they are risking their lives. 

When it becomes undeniable that that America is nothing more than a myth or, indeed, the big lie, I think most of them will at least rethink that.  Don't the Marines say something along the lines of "God, Country, Corps"?  At least they recognize something higher than orders issued by man.

Even the Chinese refused to roll a tank over one of their own - at least when the cameras were around.  We all have cameras on us now.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:25 | 1314246 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I sure as fuck hope so.  At 5'9", 165 lbs, and only .38 in my pants, chances are I will be taken out pretty quickly. 

one can hope, but the more destitute people become because of the banksters, the more dire things they will do for debt notes.

Fiat - It's everwhere you don't want it to be.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:49 | 1314331 MisterAmbassador
MisterAmbassador's picture

Might I recommend having a pocket-sized Constitution/Declaration of Independence handy in your pants too?  Nothing like pulling that out of your pocket and just reading it aloud.  Would probably have a much more profound effect than pulling that .38 out.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:53 | 1314348 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

That's exactly what John Lennon said!

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 17:10 | 1314432 malek
malek's picture

And he was right!

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 22:04 | 1315266 Mec-sick-o
Mec-sick-o's picture

And he was shot to death.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:00 | 1315519 Clampit
Clampit's picture

And here we are still talking about him being right today.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 07:11 | 1315783 Captain Planet
Captain Planet's picture

but he was shot to death

last I checked, the bible was the only paper strong enough to stop bullets

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 17:08 | 1314434 fuu
fuu's picture

That didn't work real well in Kent State.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 17:19 | 1314440 I only kill chi...
I only kill chickens and wheat's picture

I would suggest to read it at home, and not "carry" the constitution. DHS Domestic Terrorist Profile:

*Expressions of libertarian philosophies (Statements, bumper stickers)
*Second Amendment-oriented views (NRA or Gun Club Membership, holding a CCW permit)
*Survivalist literature (Fictional books such as “Patriots” and “One Second After” are mentioned by name)
*Self-sufficiency (Stockpiling Food, Ammo, Hand Tools, Medical supplies)
*Fear of economic collapse (Buying Gold and Barter items)
*Religious views concerning the book of Revelation (Apocalypse, Anti-Christ)
*Expressed fears of Big Brother or Big Government
*Declarations of Constitutional rights and Civil liberties
*Belief in a New World Order Conspiracy

Opps I'm 6/10

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 17:17 | 1314468 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

7/10 and rising.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 17:30 | 1314522 -Michelle-
-Michelle-'s picture

We were 8/10, but we let the club membership lapse.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:32 | 1314714 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

And all this time I thought I was the All-American boy. Who would have thunk it?

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:22 | 1314852 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Nearly everyone on ZH is a terrorist. There are still a few shills for the Fed and some Obots who will become anti-government when their Messiah is no longer in office.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 20:22 | 1315003 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

not you again.  PUT YOUR PANTS ON MISTER!

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:35 | 1315561 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Funny post!!!      Milestones

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 17:41 | 1314559 Henry Chinaski
Henry Chinaski's picture

Can you post the link to said profile?  All I found is this and most of those items aren't there.

DHS Assessment - Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:27 | 1314696 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

ya, all I get is Nightengales' Song, ... perhaps after Rawles (the eotwawki guy) post.  But the Profile needs to be distributed rather widely, so it seems as likely as others, esp. w/OPSEC from DHS.

However, is consistent with previous Big Sis publications, e.g. (but widely reported):

go figure.  This would be good enough for GW to run with an entire post, such are the standards.

- Ned



Thu, 05/26/2011 - 20:10 | 1314959 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

I believe that was released by the Missouri State police working in conjunction with DHS in 2009. Anyone with a Ron Paul bumper sticker was a potential terrorist. If you support a third party, you are a potential terrorist. 

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 20:09 | 1314964 Fedophile
Fedophile's picture

DHS Assessment - Pg 4

Paralleling the current national climate, rightwing extremists during the 1990s exploited a variety of social issues and political themes to increase group visibility and recruit new members.  Prominent among these themes were... perceived government infringement on civil liberties

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 23:57 | 1315512 GreenSideUp
GreenSideUp's picture

Here's the original report that was leaked (IIRC) although these fusion centers are in many states.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:00 | 1315516 GreenSideUp
GreenSideUp's picture

A bit OT but here's a story about a friend of mine who was asked to leave a national park because of his Campaign for Liberty bumper sticker.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 01:03 | 1315601 CD
CD's picture

Ouch. I would imagine the federal version is even more complete & extensive. And that on some version of it, ZH is sure to be listed...

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:10 | 1314644 strannick
strannick's picture

Guess they'd be cuffing the Founding Fathers and piling them into the Paddy Wagon. Sound like Stalin, Mussolini and Mao are more their style.

Would they prefer bumper stickers like this? "Gold in the hands of the public is an enemy of the State" -Adolf Hitler

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:32 | 1314701 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"Paddy Wagon"

Such an ethnic slur, esp. w/Our Dear President downing Vitamin G in Ireland!

- Ned

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:03 | 1314805 falardea
falardea's picture

Oh damn.  Time to start posting DNC party line comments on my facebook.  Dis-information might save me... and get me a coosh government job.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 20:59 | 1315098 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Nicely done.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:21 | 1314846 CH1
CH1's picture

The State is anti-mind.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 20:10 | 1314969 razorthin
razorthin's picture

Elitist marginalization of counter viewpoints is it's most effective tool

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 23:30 | 1315459 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

"Opps I'm 6/10"

and they just updated your DHS dossier.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 16:32 | 1318096 Malachi Constant
Malachi Constant's picture


Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:44 | 1314758 BorisTheBlade
BorisTheBlade's picture

From a man who knew something about words and guns:

"You can get more with a kind word and a gun than you can with a kind word alone." - Al Capone

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:22 | 1314848 CH1
CH1's picture

And from a guy who knew even better:

We would not let our enemies have guns, so why would we let them have ideas? - Uncle Joe Stalin

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:02 | 1314800 GubbermintWorker
GubbermintWorker's picture

I'll stick to the .38, thank you very much.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 21:57 | 1315236 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture


Shot placement is important. I recommend upper-body, center-of-mass for maximum efficacy.

Groin shots can effect rapid exsanguination also, so that may be something to keep in mind as you're sighting your target. An injured femoral artery is usually fatal.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:03 | 1315518 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

a lot of people impune the 38 ever since the glock came out etc. but the freakin 38 is a cannon, no doubt.....ha ha

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 21:40 | 1315199 SuperRay
SuperRay's picture

That's a nice sentiment, but the guys who'll be pointing guns at you won't give two shits about the constitution - they won't be educated, intellectual types who weight concepts of justice, freedom, and individual sovereignty.  No, they'll be hardened, jacked up hardasses who like having power over people (that's why they joined the police force).  Your .38 and my 9mm won't mean much to them - they won't think twice about dishing out brain damage or death.  

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 22:14 | 1315219 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture


our military, our national guard, our cops, are so far beyond Kent State it isn't funny anymore.

People don't even know their neighbors in many places anymore and as Joni Mitchell said, "everyone hates everyone"...

as long as the forces of "Control" are paid in ANY 3rd world country that's what they will attempt to maintain.....United we stand, divided we fall. Worse than divided, we are "separated"

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:06 | 1315523 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

maybe kent state was a kind of a experiment. they wanted to see how much stress NG troops could get under before they pulled the trigger and also if they would actually fire on other Americans. they fired on them and killed 4 of them. so now fastforward to today and see what kind of people are the services. men who grew up playing video games etc........not good........

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 22:12 | 1315224 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture


Thu, 05/26/2011 - 23:05 | 1315430 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

God made man, Smith & Wesson makes us equal.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 23:25 | 1315457 shesalive
shesalive's picture

smith and wesson - the best in feminine protection.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 01:30 | 1315624 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

it ain't the size of the rabbit, it's how fast runs in n out of the to speak

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:51 | 1314349 augie
augie's picture

I beleive you are thinking of the core values, which are honor, courage, and comitment. I wish i could agree with your points but my personal experience won't allow me to do so.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 17:09 | 1314425 MisterAmbassador
MisterAmbassador's picture

Actually, I was thinking of the quote from "A Few Good Men".  I just went and looked it up, and to my dismay, the direct quote is from the character Dawson:  "Unit. Corps. God. Country."

So, thanks guys.  I was actually trying to not be all doom and gloom for once.

/pops some Vicodin/

But, still, if you're just a little guy facing an army, don't bother pulling out the gun.  If you're going to go down, might as well go down pulling out the Constitution.  Even if they still shoot you for reaching into your pocket, one of them just might look and realize it was the Constitution.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 17:57 | 1314595 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Here's the REAL one.Notice what comes FIRST.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

In the National Guard (Army or Air)

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the State of (STATE NAME) against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the Governor of (STATE NAME) and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to law and regulations. So help me God.

ANY Unlawful Orders are NOT to be obeyed, if it's opposed to the Constitution, then the one's giving the orders are traitors.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:31 | 1314709 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Dos, S/F.

Not traitors yet, but refuse the illegal order, in full knowledge that the entire house is about to come down onto your head.

Case in point, the SEAL who punched out the perp on the raid, refused Captain's Mast (ART 15), Demanded a court.

Playaz' PLAY.

- Ned

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 21:45 | 1315215 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

As I recall, SEALs won that round, as well.


And that wasn't refusing to obey an order, that was PC bullshit.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 07:05 | 1315780 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Word up.

This constant braying about what the military will or won't do to us is getting tedious.

Everyone needs to understand something...these people are not mindless robots directed from on high, they are us. They are committed to us. They don't volunteer to fight and sometimes die for Reid or Boehner or Barry or Goldman or the Fed.

If the people don't support what they are doing ultimately they always side with the people. TPTB already know this and its high time everyone else understood this simple fact as well.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:24 | 1314685 augie
augie's picture

I dont mean this in a belligerent way, but the men who created the constitution were very little men facing the largest army/navy ever in the history of the world, and they pulled guns, pitch forks and tomahawks. I intend to do the same when it comes time, but that doesn't mean i dont pray every night that enough Ambassadors don't wake up so it doesn't come down to that. Stay positive brother, whether you realize it or not you're having an effect. Even if its just keeping guys like me from dawning a flak and kevlar and heading down liberty street.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 17:13 | 1314454 MisterAmbassador
MisterAmbassador's picture

You know, the worst case of what you seem to think coming our way thus far was the Nazis, and people didn't have cameras on their phones and Germans didn't have Second Amendment rights.  The Nazis still lost.  Hitler was addicted to amphetamines and pretty sick in his last days.  His whole power structure was designed, so that no one could overthrow him.  That kept generals from being able to make decisions on their own.  His judgment was horribly skewed, and, ultimately, the centralized power structure that depended completely upon him wasn't able to function without him.

Goodness always prevails in the end.  Now, if the worst happens, it most certainly will not be easy; it most certainly will be bloody; it most certainly will be horrific; but, goodness most certainly will prevail in the end, if not before.  It always does.  Always.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:01 | 1314617 DosZap
DosZap's picture

and Germans didn't have Second Amendment rights.


Nope, But they were well armed, and they willingly gave them up..........remember they were not the primary targets.

However the Nazi's DID teach their children to turn them in.........any similarities jump out at you?.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 22:08 | 1315282 pods
pods's picture

Something in that kinda rings a bell Dos, as in Snap Scouts:



Fri, 05/27/2011 - 03:12 | 1315690 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture


That's the most chilling website I've seen in a long time.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 06:56 | 1315779 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

No doubt.

That is mega creepy

The youth of the nation is easily brainwashed

They are already like little "crack addicts" with their cell phone gadgets. Ever see one walk 20 paces without playing with their little "security blankets"? It's high comedy to watch....and yet disturbing at the same time.

I hear the new smart phones are "plugged" into the NSA security complex monster.

Soon all the latest gadgets will be fitted with technology so that info is retrievable by "Big Bro and Sis".....making it terribly easy for traitors and turncoats to snitch and sell out their fellow citizenry for a guaranteed spot in the bread and soup line.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 10:27 | 1316461 ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

Hey, what's the big deal? You got something we should know about? I mean, come on, the website says that you will be given a chance to explain your actions... Friggin libs... sarc\

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 08:07 | 1315846 seabiscuit
seabiscuit's picture

This warms the cockles of my heart, a phone program funded by XE. Ain't that cute?

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:39 | 1314741 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Goodness might prevail in the end... but the end can be many generations down the road.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:37 | 1314886 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

 "Goodness always prevails in the end---" What pitiful mindless idiocy; what complete and total ignorance of human history. Tell your story to the simple black and white photograph of over 4,000 women and children, including infatns in arms, standing on the arrival platform at Auschwitz who were all murdered within the next four days. You're an idiot.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:39 | 1314891 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

How about the nearly one million Rwandans killed with machetes supplied by Europe even after they had been warned of the danger? France and Britain if you don't even know recent history.

Watching an eight yo child hacked to death with a machete will end your bullshit ideology that mankind is noble.

Retards abound.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 20:32 | 1315039 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

"Retards abound."  A hard truth, but the truth.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:10 | 1315529 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i am 60 years old and most of life i remember seeing advertisements on the boob toob talking about giving money to feed starving africans. they ran off the indigenous white farmers in zimbabwe and now they starve to death there, even though they have absolutely great farming areas there. james robison is always talking about going over there and drilling wells for them. i mean come on. here we are in the 21st century and these people cannot farm and cannot drill their own water wells. good grief......

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 22:54 | 1315397 John Rotten
John Rotten's picture

Or tell that to all the innocents (25,000+) that sought refuge in Dresden and were bombed by the "good" forces.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:12 | 1315534 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

not just bombed ,but fire bombed.......produce maximum effect and kill the most people even though it has no military value and was a center of german culture and was a hospital town and a pow town......kurt vonnegut talked about it in his famous novel, slaughterhouse 5 and the things he saw there when he was a pow there.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:39 | 1315571 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Dresden really lays to rest any noble pretensions the Allies might have had in WWII, actually so do Hiroshima and Nagasaki.... on and on. Horrors.

And they are readying to do it all over again. Only this time, the tools are so much worse for everything.

Hell of a time coming up and I mean that literally, figuratively...every which way.


Fri, 05/27/2011 - 05:41 | 1315746 Hunch Trader
Hunch Trader's picture

Dresden was just one of many in what was allied SOP considering German cities:

"The attack during the last week of July, 1943, Operation Gomorrah, created one of the greatest firestorms raised by the RAF and United States Army Air Force in World War II, killing 42,600 civilians and wounding 37,000 in Hamburg and practically destroying the entire city."

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 03:35 | 1315702 Shylockracy
Shylockracy's picture

Yes, the goodness of Stalin, Mao, Churchill and the dying British Empire, French colonialism and aggression, international socialist Roosevelt and Truman, the Fed and Wallstreet, inter alia prevailed. So much goodness one can hardly hold back the tears of joy.

If history wasn't a palimsest written by the victors in the last war, you would not be allowed the obese confort, as an American, of being such a moral simpleton and ignoramus.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:01 | 1314616 Pondmaster
Pondmaster's picture

For God , Country , and the Corp . And willing to die . Not brainwashed men and women , but thoroughly indoctrinated . The youth break easily , not the older ones that enlist . I don't think we will see the military turn on us en masse . A special SS, or Gestapo type order will have to be created . Men with no souls or hearts . For the motherland !!

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 21:01 | 1315101 pvzh
pvzh's picture

A special SS, or Gestapo type order will have to be created

Has not it been already created? TSA, and other alphabet soup with which as american you are more familliar.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 22:19 | 1315312 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Those agencies rely upon your complete and unequivocal compliance. Once that voluntary compliance is withdrawn, those agencies and the agents who serve them have something to worry about.

Anybody can be a bully until extreme resistance is encountered. How many of those agents wanna die for their job?

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 03:32 | 1315699 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

"Men with no souls or hearts . For the motherland !!"

Kinda like the TSA

I fear that soulless, heartless men and women will obey any orders for the fiat paid to keep Their families fed.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 23:36 | 1315472 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

It is...

1. Corps

2. God

3. Country

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 03:20 | 1315694 mophead
mophead's picture

"Of course there are some, maybe many like that.  But, even they must still believe on some level that they are "defending America" or "defending freedom" or something bigger than themselves because they are risking their lives."

A false sense of security is worse than no security at all. Live and learn.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:57 | 1314381 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

I WAS ONE OF THOSE PC GUYS ONCE! Among the many great times in life (in and out as they say) i had that was one them. I mean it when i say "those protesters were GOOD!" THEY ACTUALLY WERE CLIMBING AND REPELLING OFF A CRANE! It really was incredible. Definitely fought us to a draw on that one--i felt much better about America for it, too. Glad i wasn't "one of the retailers"--they didn't take "draw" well. Que sera, sera. "There's a market in protest, too" i imagine.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:21 | 1314666 Blotsky
Blotsky's picture

Well if anyone thinks that the military may, one day, become a threat against it's own citizens then perhaps they should also focus on what the majority of  police officers will become.

Lets be real for a minute and realize that when the rubber meets the road, the majority of those officers will not care about anything but feeding themselves and their family; even if it is at the expense of our freedom.

Call me a nut, but if you have a firearm, there will come a day in the not to far future that you will have to use it.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:45 | 1314752 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Well, these officers of the law cheerfully lock people up in cages for smoking the 'wrong' kind of plant. If they're that heedless of basic freedoms, I'm convinced they'll do pretty much anything they're ordered to, as long as they think their asses are covered.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:28 | 1314862 CH1
CH1's picture

When it comes to firing on civilians, I worry a LOT more about the police than I do the military.

Also, if people start firing back, the cops will run away.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 20:15 | 1314973 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

We know where the cops and their families live. When they're out killing protesters, who is protecting their families?

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 20:44 | 1315066 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Have you actually read the the art of ?

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 20:33 | 1315031 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

from my experience i agree.  even though we had all the automatic weapons "they got to use all the force."  plus they had the cool "jack boot" thing.  i found myself feeling rather ordinary looking that day actually.  kind of "a let down" stylistically speaking.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 23:02 | 1315422 John Rotten
John Rotten's picture

When it comes to firing on civilians, I worry a LOT more about the police than I do the military.


+1.  Plus local law is in cahoots with DHS.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 05:04 | 1315732 Debt is Slavery
Debt is Slavery's picture

I consider myself a realist, and there are many in the armed forces who will not fire on americans.  The threat IMHO are from contractors, ie. blackwater, UN 'peacekeepers', foreign troops, mercenaries, 'roided up cops and punk-ass soldiers that were recruited via X-box who would drop an entire family while 'teabagging' them and shouting pwnd!!!

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 07:33 | 1315807 L_Estasi_dell_Oro
L_Estasi_dell_Oro's picture

"Today, America would be outraged if UN troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all people of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the world government." - Henry Kissinger (Bilderburg Conference 1991 Evians, France)

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 23:00 | 1315406 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Good luck with that.  If shooting you in the head means he gets his paycheck on Friday and some beer and chicken then you lose.  When the power if cut and they can get A/C, beds, showers, water, food, beer, a paycheck and the perks - they will "kill you dead" to hold onto those benefits. 

Don't assume anything. 

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:00 | 1314145 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Whoever they point the guns at will have been previously painted as a terrorist, like that potentially postal, postal former marine.

If all else fails, there's always NATO troops.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:01 | 1314627 DosZap
DosZap's picture

If all else fails, there's always NATO troops.


Blue helmets show on US's over.

All out Civil War.

Bank that.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 20:13 | 1314977 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

Bright blue helmets make a good target. 

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:35 | 1314764 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

old story, from 2008:

Canada, U.S. agree to use each other’s troops in civil emergencies Canada and the U.S. have signed an agreement that paves the way for the militaries from either nation to send troops across each other’s borders during an emergency, but some are questioning why the Harper government has kept silent on the deal.


of course, there's always the ever-changing monikers of Erik Prince's "Christian Crusader" corps to fall back on. . .

The United Arab Emirates has confirmed hiring a company headed by Erik Prince, the billionaire founder of Blackwater. According to the New York Times, the UAE secretly signed a $529 million contract with Prince’s new company, Reflex Responses, or R2, to put together an 800-member battalion of mercenaries.

Documents show the force is intended to conduct special operations missions inside and outside the country, defend oil pipelines and skyscrapers from attacks, and put down internal revolts. The troops could be deployed if foreign guest workers stage revolts in labor camps, or if the UAE regime were challenged by pro-democracy protests like those sweeping the Arab world. One contract document describes, quote, "crowd-control operations" where the crowd "is not armed with firearms but does pose a risk using improvised weapons (clubs and stones)."

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 22:36 | 1315349 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Jeremy Scahill is one cool dewd.

I read something recently about Eric Prince being in Mexico City, possibly recruiting guerilla fighters from the Mexican drug cartels. Still not sure what he and the CIA have in mind, although I wouldn't want to be living in the Southwest USA right now.

There's a civil war coming...

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:30 | 1315544 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

In 2008 the Pentagon put out a report on "Known Unknowns". It was about not having enough imagination to confront future scenarios (for anyone that didn't already read it). Mexico and Pakistan were both mentioned as most likely to collapse. And as long as the Federales in DF can make everyone believe their power continues to extend outside their enclave, Mexico isn't "collapsed". I told a friend that was visiting from Houston about the Zetas, Beltran Leyva, Sinaloa, etc - she didn't really believe me because she lives in Texas and had never heard of "those gangs". She's working on her Master's in I can't remember. Smart girl.

Ah, here it is:

While likely not an immediate prospect, this is clearly a "Black Swan" that merits some visibility inside DoD and the Department of Homeland Security. To the extent events like this involve organized violence against local, state, and national authorities and exceed the capacity of the former two to restore public order and protect vulnerable populations, DoD would be required to fill the gap. This is largely uncharted strategic territory.


Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security. Deliberate employment of weap-ons of mass destruction or other catastrophic capabili-ties, unforeseen economic collapse, loss of function-ing political and legal order, purposeful domestic resis-tance or insurgency, pervasive public health emergen-cies, and catastrophic natural and human disasters are all paths to disruptive domestic shock.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:54 | 1315591 Milestones
Milestones's picture

NATO or UN troops over here knowing that there are probably 250,000,000 guns waiting? Surely you jest! If you were French or Italian, would you come??       Milestones

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 07:12 | 1315785 i-dog
i-dog's picture

It was exactly that thought that kept Hitler and Mussolini out of Switzerland during WWII. They planned it, but never went ahead ... because the Swiss are REQUIRED to be armed (some even have tanks in their barns!).

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 16:53 | 1318137 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

respectfully, guns won't protect anyone against airborne poisons being sprayed, daily.

few want to acknowledge the FACT that biowarfare is ongoing in NATO countries, and with that, how easy it would be to just load up the aerosols with (more) deadly nerve agents.

remember who sold "saddam" the poison used on the kurds.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:21 | 1314225 Eyes on the World
Eyes on the World's picture

One word:

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:43 | 1314325 I Got Worms
I Got Worms's picture

My cousin is an MP in the Army, about to deploy on his fourth Iraqi tour. Very solid guy, but when I sent him the Oathkeepers link, he told me he could get in big trouble looking at the "militia-type" stuff on the web.  I didn't ask, but I got the feeling he would fire on US civilians if ordered to.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:44 | 1314329 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Moby much you lying fuck?

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:27 | 1314866 BigJim
BigJim's picture


Thu, 05/26/2011 - 20:14 | 1314972 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

An insidious and specialized type of left-wing troll who visits blogs and impersonates a conservative for the purpose of either spreading false rumors intended to sow dissension among conservative voters, or who purposely posts inflammatory and offensive comments for the purpose of discrediting the blog in question.

The term is derived from the name of the liberal musician Moby, who famously suggested in February of 2004 that left-wing activists engage in this type of subterfuge: “For example, you can go on all the pro-life chat rooms and say you’re an outraged right-wing voter and that you know that George Bush drove an ex-girlfriend to an abortion clinic and paid for her to get an abortion. Then you go to an anti-immigration Web site chat room and ask, ‘What’s all this about George Bush proposing amnesty for illegal aliens?’”

The Tell was tying Oathkeepers to Militia.

Absolute Soros sponsored evil propaganda.


Thu, 05/26/2011 - 21:04 | 1315104 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Ah. Thanks.

But is it not possible that some US soldiers have been told that oathkeepers are a bunch of 'right-wing militia' types, and that people suspected of such leanings won't do well (career-wise) in our modern, 'progressive' military?

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 21:50 | 1315225 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Why do y'all think the "modern" military are not humans with Internet access?

You do remember that whole wikileaks thing, right? You don't think something bullshit, but not classified would be shouted to the rafters?

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 23:06 | 1315431 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Don't assume the military will side with the civilians. 

NATO or UN troops coming into the US?  Bring it on.  I doubt they would want to.  Who?  What country?  The only ones with a decent and fairly large military are the Germans, Chinese, maybe the Russians.   The Russians will defect on day one because they get dog food in their army.  Germans will say forget it - if we have beer then they will be on our side.

The Chinese would be an issue. I would not be suprised if Mohammed the teleprompter brought them in. 

The USA is not Switzerland where every man has a SIG assault rifle and is practically a marksman.  We make it up in volume and ammo.  It will be a very ugly civil war.


Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:51 | 1314755 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Throughout history, it is the rule, not the exception, that militaries suppress their own people.

In the past, American soldiers have cheerfully slaughtered people who offered no threat to the US - Filipinos, Mexicans, Vietnamese, Laotians, etc, etc. They're killing Iraqis and Afghanis as we speak. So unless you think this generation of boys are made of finer stuff, I suspect they won't be much different. It's just a matter of making them believe they're doing the right thing. It's only later, when they're not bombarded with jingoistic groupthink  every day, and have time to start thinking for themselves, that some of them will start to doubt.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:01 | 1314795 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

how much time, actually, did you spend in combat, LittleJim? The grunts turn into savages when the commanders & the FUCK-HEAD politicians put them in untenable positions

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:26 | 1314849 BigJim
BigJim's picture

OK, I admit it. I didn't take part in the American-Phillipines war (1899 – 1902), The Mexican-American War (1846 - 1848), the Viet Nam war (1961? - 1975). And I didn't take part in carpet bombing Laos, either.

I give up, you win. I cannot personally attest to American soldiers being 'savages'.

But oh yeah! That's not what I said, is it? I said American soldiers have historically shown little unwillingness to kill people who were no threat to the US.

Actually, I think it is savage behaviour to kill someone who is no threat to you or yours, just because your 'superiors' tell you to, but I guess we have different moral standards.

As for: The grunts turn into savages when the commanders & the FUCK-HEAD politicians put them in untenable positions

Yes, it's called sending them off to war in some foreign country, to kill a bunch of people who are no threat to them. And if you sign up to our military, then that's what you are signing up to do. Hoo Fucking Rah.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 20:22 | 1315004 sun tzu
sun tzu's picture

You're a retarded fucking moron. Some soldier under stress did things like that. The vast majority did not. If the millions of soldiers who served in Vietnam were all psychos murdering everyone in sight, there would be no Vietnamese left. If the VC were no threats to US soldiers, how the hell did 55,000 of them die? Try again, shit for brains.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 21:04 | 1315094 BigJim
BigJim's picture

LOL. Re-read my post. Of course the VC were threats to US soldiers... once those same US soldiers were in THEIR country.

If the US soldiers had stayed where they belonged - IN THE US, DEFENDING THE US - the VC would have had no quarrel with them.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 21:58 | 1315243 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

did you get the part about the FUCK-HEAD POLITICIANS??? you think the grunts had any choice about staying in the USA? Ya ever hear about a thing called the "draft"? look it up. was real popular back in the 1960's. As to the nowadys "all-voluteer" forces [bullshit mis-nomer, since for most it's the best of bad choices for "making a living"] they still have to "follow orders" amde & given by the pussies in the Pentgram & their asshole buddies - hence wind up in Afghan & Iraqi cesspool/quagmires. You can't win this one, Ace: it's all on the Massahs. They call the shots.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 22:24 | 1315318 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

sorry, but "making a living" by killing people is a poor career choice, and it IS a choice. . . there are OTHER options.

zero excuses.


Fri, 05/27/2011 - 05:55 | 1315753 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Actually, I do have some sympathy for our Vietnam-era soldiery. They were drafted, and they didn't have decades of recent US imperialism to warn them that their 'sacrifices' would not be for their country, but for their country's elites.

On the other hand - plenty of men at the time had the moral courage to dodge the draft, rather than go kill other people who were no threat to them or their country.

As to the nowadys "all-voluteer" forces [bullshit mis-nomer, since for most it's the best of bad choices for "making a living"] they still have to "follow orders"

Exactly. And they willingly go into the 'services' knowing this - that they will have to "follow orders". And they have decades of recent history to show them exactly what they'll be ordered to do - kill (or help kill) people who are no threat to them or the US.

The original context of this thread was my assertion that throughout history, militaries have more often oppressed their own people than have refused to do so. I have no reason to believe this generation of soldiers will behave any differently. In fact, it seems logical to me that a volunteer army is more likely to commit atrocities than a conscripted army. A lot of conscripts are reluctant killers; volunteer soldiers, by definition, aren't.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 22:33 | 1315339 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Do they still even mention the Domino Theory?

Grow up, we were in a war for global domination.

You, and your commie lib professors might not think so, but the Soviets sure did.

All soldiers fighting for the idiocy of communism did, in fact, have a quarrel with the capitalist west.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 05:46 | 1315749 BigJim
BigJim's picture

What - you're saying the US would have become a communist country if we hadn't gone into Vietnam? or that the communists would have invaded?

Look a little more deeply... the Vietnamese hated their Diem dictatorship; if the US hadn't propped up Diem, he would have fallen, and the communists would never have got the support they did.

As usual - our beloved government's actions made things worse.

Why is it, rodent, that you can see the worthlessness of our governments, except when they're doing something militaristic? What exempts the military from your scrutiny? They are the very apotheosis of government. Take off your right/left blinders, chum.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:16 | 1314836 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

 a man named george patton , told his men to fix bayonets and clear the field in front of the white house, a field filled with ww1 veterans called the bonus army, who got screwed..........and he didn't think a thing about it.

george washington was pressed back into service and lead a american army force against some people who did not want to pay tax on their whiskey.

american tanks and troops were used against black people in the watts riots .

american tanks and troops were used against women and children in a church at waco


so it has been done many times before.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:25 | 1314853 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Aw, yeah, but that was, like, years ago. Our boys would never do such things now!

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 21:07 | 1315128 CH1
CH1's picture

Clear the White House lawn? Yeah, many would do that.

Shoot the disobedient on the streets of their own towns? No, very few would do that.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 22:50 | 1315377 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Ludlow Colorado, Kent State, Waco Texas, etc., etc.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 23:30 | 1315465 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Trade after tuesday, I'm arguing with the know it all Mother. Rghhh. My house is 5k feet.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:07 | 1315525 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture


I don't see the Constitution standing in the way of human nature any time soon. Most Americans can't even name three Amendments. Governments will do what they always do. We had a Civil War, did we not? Americans have been killing each other for a long time.  

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 01:43 | 1315639 Ponzi Unit
Ponzi Unit's picture

Actually it was Douglas MacArthur who used mounted cavalry to clear Bonus Marchers out of the Anacostia flats in 1932.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:50 | 1314917 Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

Here's a trick question: The Gulf of Tonkin incident was used to justify vast excalation of the Vietnam conflict.  The facts of the "incident" were lies in this sense, that MACV SOG CCN was used to create the incident.  Wikipedia probably covers this.  Did the guys in that unit tell the US public the 'incident' was a lie, a setup?  No.  The rest is history.  Is that different from turning on the civilians?  I'm not sure, are you?  Great guys, by the way.  As an aircrewman I spent many days with them.  But if you are talking "what happens if they think their pensions are going to be cut, or they're all going to be layed off?  That there is a real threat among the civilians?  Tough call.  Training methods have improved.  A bit less "you are above the law" indoctrination.  Still, tough call.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:48 | 1314912 buzzard
buzzard's picture

My nephew is a high ranking NCO and an MP. From discussions with him in the past... I don't trust him. That's all I'm saying is that I don't trust him. My own family... damn!

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:04 | 1314628 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Plus, most men of age, are not aware that they are THE Unorganized Milita of the United States.

No choice, your are.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:07 | 1315531 JW n FL
Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:42 | 1315569 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

 i think it is some kind of infiltration thingy, honeypot operation so to speak. i have heard the guy who started it talk before. and he talks in circles....i suspect he is a agent of some sort. basically what they do with this, is they get military types who are not with the program so to speak. to come out and "join" this organization. one of the things they insist on , (strangely if you ask me) is that they must have your real name and addy etc......

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:24 | 1314243 Eagle1
Eagle1's picture

As an Air Force Squadron Commander in 1970, I exercised my command prerogative and refused to over-discipline a fine airman who had pissed off the Generals wife for something I no longer remember. CRS sets in at about age 50. I caught hell from my commander whom I'm sure caught hell from the General. When I staked out my position, I actually thought the Colonel was going to come over his desk and slug me.

 I had orders to Viet Nam two weeks later.

Sometimes you have to make hard decisions. I hope and pray that current military members have the integrity to make the hard decisions when the time arrives.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:41 | 1314314 nasa
nasa's picture

Same shit still happening today.  Don't piss on the General's family or close freinds and if you do expect a bibical shit-storm before your ran off.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:43 | 1314324 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture


When the military coup occurred to take out Gorbachev, the SOVIET MILITARY refused to fire on civilians.

I have complete and utter faith in our boys.  If the SHTF, they may not do the right thing all the time, but they WILL do the right thing overall.  

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 16:56 | 1314365 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

not only refused, but pivoted the tanks and backed up to the barricades.  They protected their people.

then they shelled the living piss out of that high rise office.   Beautiful.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:01 | 1314808 mfoste1
mfoste1's picture

unfortunately, the average american soldier has the IQ of about 90. He/She is brainwashed and will do what they're told by superiors, and if that means shooting innocent civilians so be it.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 23:54 | 1315503 Breaker
Breaker's picture

"unfortunately, the average american soldier has the IQ of about 90. He/She is brainwashed and will do what they're told by superiors, and if that means shooting innocent civilians so be it."

You obviously don't know many.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 08:35 | 1315906 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

That's the first time I have ever seen a thread Godwin'd w/o a mention of the Nazis or Hitler. Well played...

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 17:23 | 1314486 America- Some A...
America- Some Assembly Required's picture

Saw a video on youtube showing the National Guard and cops going house to house after Katrina in an area that wasn't flooded, just within the "evacuation zone", and they removed everyone from their homes with weapons drawn. They were under orders to collect and confiscate all firearms in the area. The reporter shooting the vid asks one of the guys if he is prepared to fire on Americans and he says he "doesn't want to think about it" right at the end of the first vid.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:39 | 1314674 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Those men were  Illegally going under orders from the Mayor of New Orleans, and the Police Chief.

Their was a shitstorm over that deal, and multiple lawsuits.

The biggest issue I saw was there were LE from Kali/NJ, and other ANTI gun/Ownership states in the mix.

And they were treating the NO folks like they would have their states peoples.

Luckily no LE were shot.But a couple of 250# Bulls took down an 80yr old woman(in the dry zone) for showing a revolver, empty, upside down with a finger thru the TG.

They took her down like she was a 6'- 6"-300# linebacker.

Totally uncalled for, and she was black and blue and beat to shit.

Glad I was not here,on that occasion.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:59 | 1314929 Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

Whether it's SWAT LEO or spec ops soldiers, the big question is "how big a set of lies will a politician tell them?"  I think if they are told that the order is constitutional, that the peril is immediate and grave, and that the targets have very serious weapons, then even if all the foregoing are lies, the individuals may come up with an answer you don't like.  NO is an example.  There are others.  I sympathize with the soldier/LEO in such a situation.  I'd clear the area, though.  Kent State.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 20:03 | 1314942 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

That is a big leap to make based on the actions of the most corrupt police department in all the US. The NO PD is not much different from the NYC mob.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 20:50 | 1315074 Ropingdown
Ropingdown's picture

Freikorps, I agree with your assessment.  I have faith in our soldiers.  If times become very frightening, though, we can expect a few failures to refuse orders.  If you've ever been a low-ranking soldier given a bad order, you'll understand.  The best of the best still have a difficult time saying "Major, you're passing us an unconstitutional order."  And if a threat is apparent, the difficulty becomes vastly larger. 

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 23:02 | 1315410 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

In a SHTF or wartime scenario, those soldiers would be summarily executed on the battlefileld for failure to obey a direct, "lawful" order.

At least, that is what they would be threatened with while looking down the barrel of their superior officer's weapon.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:19 | 1314663 Poundsand
Poundsand's picture

Father of a US Marine, friend of one former, one current Seal.  There are two types of men/women in the armed forces; those that look at is as a job, and those that see it as a way to serve our country.  The second type understand the oath, believe it, and will fight and send many to the grave defending it.  These are the "serious" soldiers, and you can spot them a mile off by how the comport themselves.  I have no fear that they understand the oath is not to a person, not to a CIC, but to a set of laws and will act appropriately.

That said, when the SHTF, my boy has explicit instructions to double time it back to the homestead.  He can drop stuff at 500 yards with open sights that I can barely see with my scope. I want to keep those clear fields of fire, well, clear.

At the same time, I had an interesting experience at the local athletic field. I have an acquataince that was there and we hadn't see each other for awhile.  He indicted that my name had crossed his desk recently.  This struck me as odd as we work in entirely different fields and he saw the expression on my face.  He explained that it was at his desk at the local police station where he serves as an auxillary officer.  He had seen that I had recently purchased a pair of .45 Rugers, and said, "But I know you and knew it was ok."  That bothered me on a whole host of levels.  As a result, second hand purchases from then on.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 18:51 | 1314767 DosZap
DosZap's picture



That bothered me on a whole host of levels


There was a reason he knew it, you had purchased TWO handguns, (Dealers are req'd to send in a multiple sales record to the BATFE boyeez,in that instance).


Secondly, I do not know what state you live in, but some states and Local LE are notified when that happens.That's how he knew.


You just live in the wrong state for that reason, and never purchase more than one hand gun, unless you wait five BUSINESS days in between.

Or a report is filed.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:26 | 1314857 Poundsand
Poundsand's picture

Thanks for the additonal information.  Now I am curious regarding what other "triggers" there are for notifying them of my gun purchases?

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 19:23 | 1314859 Poundsand
Poundsand's picture

Thanks for the additonal information.  Now I am curious regarding what other "triggers" there are for notifying them of my gun purchases?

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:42 | 1315574 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

have you ever thought it strange that they allow us to have guns. why is it they allow us to have guns here?  maybe it is because they don't care if we have guns. guns are old technology perhaps. just a thought.....

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 16:59 | 1318148 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture


just a thought.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 21:48 | 1315220 pvzh
pvzh's picture

You are following backward (official) version of the story. In reality, the coup seen on TV was a decoy. Bunch drunken/drugged men appear on TV claiming that they are saviours of USSR, supposedly arrested Gorbachev, ordered troops in Moscow, but did not do any other arrests (neither Yeltsin nor any other possible descenders). Troops had no ammo whatsoever. After that, it all was theatrics of "people defending White House", "army siding with rebels", "Yeltsin addressing crowd from the tank", etc.

Aftermath, Russia recognizes $150+ billion dollard debt to the West, although before the coup it was only $6 billion, several party officals related to finance and security have been found dead (allegedly suicide), and 3 young idiots were ran over by a tank after they blocked its hatches and tried to set the tank on fire (dead idiots instead of Darwin award were given the first three newly established "Order of Hero of Russia"). The farce part was that tank crew were convicted on "criminal neglegence" and got around 8 years each, whereas alleged coup perpetrators were all pardoned even before the trial. Only one coup perpetrator refused the pardon and stood the trial which fail to prove any charges against him.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 23:14 | 1315444 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

If Yeltsin was a lackey for the West, what role did Mikhail Khordorkovsky play in that entire affair/coup?

I think Vladimir Putin knew, and he took immediate steps to rectify the situation.

Fri, 05/27/2011 - 00:46 | 1315579 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

it was all just one big hollywood production. we all sat around and watched it on television..........the whole thing was staged .......the leopard changed its spots.

Thu, 05/26/2011 - 22:20 | 1315304 McPoopypants
McPoopypants's picture

why the extra emphasis on SOVIET? It was not a professional army in the sense that the army is professional in the US. There was a draft. They were a fairly representative sample of the people. The US army peronnell arguably hold less resentment against the govt. They have to rationalize joining up after all...

Moreover, Soviets killed a lot of their own people too, and sent the rest to rot in prison camps. It probably just depends on the perceived power of the ones in charge. Gorbachev was a pussy, and everyone in USSR knew it. Stalin wouldn't blink to execute everyone involved. Hell, he did that to most of the war heroes after WWII, as a "thanks, and a fuck you" to those who fought on the German front.


I'm not saying US mil will do one or the other, but I sure wouldn't bet on their kindness to protect me.

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