Guest Post: Give Unto Caesar - What To Pay When You're Selling

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Wed, 06/02/2010 - 16:49 | 390355 buzzsaw99
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They're out of their flipping minds if they think I'm paying cap gains taxes on PMs.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 16:53 | 390363 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Make normal, rational men into criminals.  This is what they want.  It is difficult to rule a nation of lawful men, but a nation of criminals can be controlled, first through guilt, then through "righteous" violence.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:03 | 390377 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

The more they print the more you pay! Brilliant!

I'm not sweating it though...  and you should see my new jewelry collection... :)

(Mr. T would be proud!)

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:07 | 390401 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture


Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:18 | 390411 ZerOhead
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And don't forget the matching keychains Buzzy... one for every key I own! (A little glue and some string... you'd be amazed at what passes for jewelry these days! :)

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:30 | 390442 Yardfarmer
Thu, 06/03/2010 - 09:44 | 391520 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

He could use some AutoTune.

I am Chumbawamba.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:53 | 390487 buzzsaw99
Wed, 06/02/2010 - 18:04 | 390504 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Joe Jones when gold was $300/oz... one smart motherfu%&er! I'll be sure to empty my pockets and take off my necklaces before I go for a swim! :)

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:10 | 390406 Dr. No
Dr. No's picture

I have seen necklaces with a 1/0 oz American eagle, or some other bullion hanging from it.  A gold chain with 400 oz COMEX bar attached to it?  I know art when I see it!!

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:20 | 390422 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

And no doubt you'll know hernia when you feel it!

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:24 | 390427 boricuadigm-shift
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+1 Wow... Thats funny... :-)  Thanks for a good afternoon laugh.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 19:21 | 390692 Oracle of Kypseli
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It's time to repeat this story one more time.

While I was traveling in the Sinai dessert, I stopped at a town to buy gold jewelry. A Bedouin family traveling with Camels was buying 22K gold wire. (Semi-circle profile 1.4″ wide.) At the end of the bargaining, the store owner cut the wire into several 6-7 inches long pieces and crudely created bracelets. The Bedouin wife dressed in long black garb lifted her long sleeves and slipped the bracelets into her arms. To my amazement it looked like she had bracelets going al the way up to her underarms.

The owner explained to me later that they were traveling between Egypt, Israel, Gaza, Jordan and other countries. No trust in paper money and counterfeit bills. Any time they make money on trading, they buy more gold wire, anytime they need money, they go to the gold market of whichever country they are in and sell bracelets.

Footnote: assay kits range from $15 for acid testing to $200 for electronic sophisticated ones.

18k gold will price at 3/4 of the spot price of a $24k oz.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 20:58 | 390853 msjimmied
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The way the Indians got around the $200 that the government would allow in exchange while they had currency controls, was to wear a lot of gold jewelry on their way out of the country. At their destination, they go to an Indian jeweler who would pay them in the local currency. There was the "Hawala" method of shadow banking as well. Most of my physical is in 24k jewelery. Never wear the stuff. All I need is an Indian jeweler and I'm in cash. If you decide to buy the jewelry, go for the plain bracelets, in 1/4 ounce, 1/2 ounce or an ounce. You are never going to wear it anyway, too soft. When you sell it, it is the weight of the gold that counts, so don't get fancy.


Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:39 | 390430 Crab Cake
Crab Cake's picture

TM you nailed it sir.

Play their game their way, and pay them exorbinant tribute for the pleasure, or be criminalized.

A bit off topic, but what else would you expect from a cabal that makes a plant illegal; next up oak trees and dandelions.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 20:55 | 390844 Mr Lennon Hendrix
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Yes and cannabis has everything to do with this financial collapse.  Just imagine, weed had been legal since day 1 we would not have had any wars.  This because no one would be all uptight.  We would have a had a huge surplus of funds to work with, hemp oil could have mitigated peak oil, and we would all be without cancer.  This and we would have never let the banksters take over.  For real.

Cypress Hill - I Wanna Get High:

Cypress Hill : Hits From The Bong:

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 20:58 | 390851 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture
Joe extrapolates. Joe Rogan Solves the War with Pot:

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 21:08 | 390870 Dantzler
Wed, 06/02/2010 - 16:55 | 390365 Teaser
Teaser's picture

You're right, they're out of their flippin minds.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:52 | 390485 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

I expect many estate lawyers will find during probate that physical gold coins will have been stolen without the deceased's knowledge.

Stealin' from the dead, I tell ya!  Criminals!

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:56 | 390490 JohnG
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"Do not expect men to remain good when thier means of survival has been made evil."


--Ayn Rand

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 18:38 | 390577 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Unless I missed it in the Blog, if you sell in less than a year, your tax is 15% on the gains..28% after a Year.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 20:14 | 390778 akak
akak's picture

And isn't the 28% rate quoted the MAXIMUM rate, depending on income?

I don't think this 28% cap tax rate on bullion is across-the-board, regardless of the nominal gain.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 19:04 | 390637 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Exchanging AFTER tax, state sanctioned "legal tender" paper currency for a state sanctioned "legal tender" metal currency...and paying a hefty PREMIUM to boot to do so, every transaction...and they in turn tax said metal currency when reverting back to paper??? trustworthy.

I bet JP Morgan owes a couple tons on the silver they've got in their vaults (snark)...and shorted with paper...LOL.

Gosh...seems to me without them knowing what the "paper price" paid at purchase is...ya know I'm really not very good at picking PM's genetic I think...was 1237 the bottom???...if not, I got taken.

I may need to find a more "trustworthy" source for my next purchase ;-)

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 21:59 | 390921 Iam_Silverman
Iam_Silverman's picture

I agree with your line of thinking.  To simplify, isn't receiving a gold/silver/platinum/palladium coin when tendering paper money the same as "getting change"?  And shouldn't converting your change back to FRN's be the same as delivering any other coin to a person who will return paper money the same thing - but in reverse?


American Eagles - change I can believe in!

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 23:35 | 391074 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Hire your kid for $100 / day.  Pay him/her 2 Gold Eagles ($50 legal tender).

Or even better give it away!  200 Gold Eagles ($50) per year = $10,000!


A message to .gov (H/T to Chumbawamba):

I fart in your general direction!

Thu, 06/03/2010 - 09:15 | 391464 robobbob
robobbob's picture

Some one has been there, done that,

NOT a good plan

Thu, 06/03/2010 - 09:53 | 391539 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Only because Kahre opened a hole in the tax structure's space-time continuum and the government had to invoke Satan to close it back up again.

Kahre is just one more political prisoner of the banksters.

I am Chumbawamba.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 19:26 | 390710 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

totally agree..  since I doubt most of us would sell any large amounts until AFTER the shit hittith the fan, then the rules change or go away completely anyway

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 20:39 | 390822 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture



First and Foremost,


Have since time immemorial been set up through a simple but very effective dialectic . . .


To wit . . . .


A Government is created.


Its first order of business is to create a system of taxation


for the purpose of transfering the maximum amount of monies possible


from the Fealty to the Nobility.


And 'twas ever thus.



Wed, 06/02/2010 - 16:52 | 390360 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

"don’t blindly buy into a PFIC.

Isn't that hidden in Barney Frank's underpants?

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 16:51 | 390361 crosey
crosey's picture

As usual, tax code that is too complicated.  Alternative:

10% flat personal income tax over $50,000 income

No deductions, no loopholes

Constitutional amendment requiring an annual balanced budget, no loopholes (including unfunded liabilities)

Gold standard on reserve currency

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 16:59 | 390375 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

Crosey, it is far too complicated.  But what else would you expect with Geitner in charge of Treasury, Rangel of ways and means, and Frank leading finance services.

Face it, the entire US government is a farce, and only complete idiot like Denninger would try to claim that tax avoidance is somehow immoral.

The US is the only country in the world that cares so little about expats that it tries to tax their entire world wide income.  No wonder that there is a total stampede of expats and international corporations trying to pry off Barney Frank's yoke of enslavement. 

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:48 | 390474 LowProfile
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Some might go so far to say that tax avoidance is your patriotic duty.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:15 | 390413 Mako
Mako's picture

Absolutely no reason to have a personal income tax rate at any level of government, of course most people confuse what the income tax is and isn't.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 18:53 | 390605 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Income Tax is BAD because .gov sticks its snout into our personal privacy.

Dump the Income Tax and VAT us or Sales Tax us.

Thu, 06/03/2010 - 07:22 | 391326 Mako
Mako's picture

No reason nor justification for a personal anything either at the income level or retail level.  All taxes should appear to be invisible to them unless they are involved in a public right. 

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:24 | 390425 BlackBeard
BlackBeard's picture

Hah!  You'd be asking your public servants to fire themselves if they ever did something so reasonable!

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:01 | 390364 Mako
Mako's picture

I gave up on lawyers a long time ago.  I even had this one lawyer say the DA could prosecute me without a complaint and summons for a traffic ticket.   It was actually a friend of the family.   Later I showed him my dismissal for lack of service and process of service.  To think I would take advice from someone like that.  And if you go to 99.99% of all lawyers they would tell you the same thing. 

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:04 | 390388 rrbluefin
rrbluefin's picture

I'll pay my cap gains with lead.  The hollow point copper jacketed variety.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:05 | 390394 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

The bullion I bought in Canada had no tax. I will not declare when I sell, full stop. Of course this means I have to sell in small quantities for cash. In person is best.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:26 | 390431 BlackBeard
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Do it on Ebay.  Fat Premium, just make sure you don't clear over 20K/mth in paypal.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:48 | 390475 darkpool2
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when you NEED to sell, there will no longer be paper trails to worry about.....and you probably wont be accepting green-backs for it either !

Yes, Canada is one solution....

Thu, 06/03/2010 - 10:09 | 391576 BobPaulson
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I have a bit of an advantage cause I live in Canada but you can buy coins with a generic money order that you get from the post office. All cash, name on nothing. Just don't get mugged in the parking lot.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:08 | 390404 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture




Wed, 06/02/2010 - 17:23 | 390424 AR15AU
AR15AU's picture

Starting next year, paypal will issue a 1099 for all sales... CL / cash is what its looking like...

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 18:43 | 390586 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Starting next year, ALL transactions over $600.00 will require 1099's.

If you sell ONE ounce, or 500, at a reputable  PM's Dealer, you WILL get a 1099...........

And you best keep up with the cost basis(invoice), and sale price.

Look for (unless the House is taken back in Nov,and that's usre no done deal), for a FAR higher rate of taxation on PM deals..............

They do not like them to begin with as we know.

Wed, 06/02/2010 - 21:06 | 390861 akak
akak's picture

"Starting next year, ALL transactions over $600.00 will require 1099's."

If there is ever going to be ANY reason to start a real modern-day Tea Party and tax rebellion, this it it!  This is going to be so fucking onerous, particulary for small businesses, which I believe it is designed to hamper and further push into extinction.

JUST SAY "NO!" TO 1099s!

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!