This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Guest Post: Gold, The Improbable Answer To Life, The Universe, And Everything

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Bo Peng

Gold, The Improbable Answer To Life, The Universe, And Everything

"Alright," said the computer and settled into silence again. The two men fidgeted. The tension was unbearable.
"You're really not going to like it," observed Deep Thought.
"Tell us!"
"Alright," said Deep Thought. "The Answer to the Great Question..."
"Of Life, the Universe and Everything..." said Deep Thought.
"Is..." said Deep Thought, and paused.
"Forty-two," said Deep Thought, with infinite majesty and calm.

-- Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy, Douglas Adams.

(With apologies to Mr. Adams, may he rest in peace, I never get tired of quoting H2G2.)

There's no rational basis for valuing gold in terms of anything else.
Unlike all other widely traded metals, gold has relatively little
inherent value and its above-ground quantity never decreases because,
well, gold is forever (while diamonds burn up).
These (little inherent value, inert) plus the relative rarity make
gold a very good medium for trade, i.e., money. The ideal medium for
trade is something that

A. has 0 inherent value and
B. can never be created and
C. can never be destroyed.

Since human stupidity is hard to measure or divide into smaller chunks, gold will have to do.

It's worth noting that digitized fiat currencies of today meet two of
the three requirements 100%. If we find a way to make it hard to create,
it would be a better choice than gold. Independent central banks were
created specifically to make it harder to create fiat currency. But the
game nature of human society dictates that every system will be
corrupted, and every good idea turned bad, over time. As such, the
central-bank experiment, while brilliant and noble, has come to an
abrupt end in failure since the 08 crisis. Global fiat currency system
was an ingenious and bold experiment except for its reliance on an
optimistic view of human's ability to overcome greed and fear. Soft
inhibition/prohibition against the creation of money, be it moral,
legal, or political, is not enough to prevent us from caving in to greed
and fear when the time is right (or wrong). We need something stronger
to save us from ourselves. Back to gold.

It is no accident
that the dollar started its slide and gold its rise both around early
2002. The terrorist attacks of 9/11 alerted the world to the
unthinkable, the possibility that all the powers of US could not
provide protection against the new type of threats. The ensuing domestic
and international policies of the Bush administration tirelessly
proved this right. Perhaps more importantly, the Bush administration
showed the world that, lacking the ability to generate organic growth
and wealth, the US is perfectly willing to abuse the trust the world
had bestowed upon it, by making the dollar the global reserve currency,
in order to fund a war without fronts, borders, goals, endings, or
clearly definable enemies. Obama strangled any budding audacity of hope
by resolutely wasting the best historical opportunity for
financial/economic/regulatory/legal reform in generations, allowing
himself to be bullied around and weakened in the process.

Somewhere along the process, however, the Perverse Gold has become more
than the dollar hedge. It gradually dawned upon the world that we're
faced with a paradox:

A. The dollar cannot serve as the global reserve currency, and
B. There's no alternative to the dollar as the global reserve currency.

How to get out of this Catch 42, nobody knows, although creative/crazy
ideas abound. Gold is most definitely not the answer, at least not in
the old style of gold-backed currencies. But when everything else proves
even uglier, the original ugly begins to look better and better. I
still don't believe we'll go back to the old gold standard but it's the least improbable among the improbables. And, with the Infinite Improbability Drive technology owned by the Fed, it's becoming less and less improbable.

Since 2002, gold has used every pathetic excuse to go up. When the
dollar is weak, it's a dollar hedge; when the dollar is strong, it's the
euro hedge; when crisis hits, it's the safe harbor; when the economy
is good, it's the inflation hedge. Now central banks are no longer
ashamed of hoarding gold. Various countries and localities are talking
about using gold to settle trades, e.g., India, Commonwealth of Virginia (yes, gold, Virginia).

A notable exception is 2008. But it was not because people liked cash
more than gold, it was because people needed cash to unwind their
positions just to get through the day. And in various scenarios some
fiat currencies may be considered temporary safe heaven. But the
candidate pool is shrinking and the safety duration is shortening.

I profess zero love for gold; it doesn't hug me back. But as far as
sustaining the things that do, gold is a necessary evil, the most benign
evil at this point in time. I always liked Virginia; if they actually
pass the alternate-currency law, I would be very tempted to move there,
if only for the cool factor and the clean conscience knowing my
children's future wouldn't be volunteered to keep some irresponsible
bums on their spending high. My children hug me back and I'd like to
keep it that way.

When you're on the right side of a macro
trend, supposedly random events inexplicably go right with improbably
high probability. I can live with such blatant disregard of nice
mathematical properties. What I cannot live with is the lack of
understanding when the trade may end. There're many ways the gold trade
may end, but valuation is not one of them (though valuation may cause
temporary pull-backs once in awhile). As I said in the beginning,
there's simply no rational basis for gold valuation in anything else.
It is, quite simply, whatever value the market is willing to pay for.

So, until the world figures out what the next common medium for trade
is, gold is the temporary universal answer to Life, the Universe, and
Everything. It is the question that you need to figure out for yourself.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:19 | 868681 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

So . . . silver and platinum (all high quality women LOVE platinum. It's "very pretty" apparently) are not answers? I'm beginning to feel nervous about gold because of posts like this.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:26 | 868694 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ fatass,

MY wife does not care much for platinum, so I will hold it for her and my kid (in Pt Eagle form).  It is my favorite PM.

Don't worry about gold.  It is going to do great, even if your fantasies about killing off half the population come true...

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:23 | 868818 JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

BUT YOU CANT EAT GOLD!!!! or platinum

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:33 | 868835 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

Gold to 1405 tomorrow? Silver to 30+?

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:43 | 868855 VegasBD
VegasBD's picture

or paper dollars.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:10 | 868892 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

or stocks, or bonds

honestly, i find it very very interesting that ancient cultures were obsessed with gold.  considering some people think that aliens visited this planet and taught pretty much  all the ancient cultures everything they knew, it is interesting.  i have to assume the aliens are who taught the people then that gold is special.  the bigger question is if alien bloodlines still exist today, who are they, are they hoarding gold for some reason?  Maybe it is fuel for some technology we don't have... never know.  we do know it is the best metal for space travel due b/c of its heat capacity (friction/near stars).



Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:17 | 868968 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

If you want to dive into that quagmire (giggity), I suggest you consider the fact that all ancient cultures worshiped some sort of flying serpent / dragon: indoamericans worshiped Quetzalcoatl, we Chinese are descended from dragons (and we worship / pray to our ancestors), whites believe in Satan, the great red dragon, Hindus / Cambodians worshiped Nagas, etc. etc. etc.

omfg serpent gods from outer space? I actually find it quite likely. Doubt it's a coincidence that dragons supposedly hoard gold.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:42 | 869024 Red Neck Repugnicant
Red Neck Repugnicant's picture

worshipping snakes in space does not add any credibility to the 'Chinese are superior' argument

I would have kept that one to yourself.


Wed, 01/12/2011 - 04:39 | 869474 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture


Wed, 01/12/2011 - 05:18 | 869482 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

1. Any race that thinks is superior is more related to rats then anything else :)

2. I do believe Chinese come from space. They look pretty alien to me. Also when a Chinese get on a plane and want to go to America, we call them "ILLLEGAL ALIENS". Coincidence? I THINK NOT!

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 07:21 | 869511 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

could anyone dispute such airtight logic?

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:40 | 869180 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

is that better than his videos "beyond the cutting edge?"  he just droned on in those videos.


Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:55 | 869220 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Well, the book is a massive brain dump.  That's to be expected when someone is trying to pull together a Grand Unified Conspiracy Theory.  The nice thing about the book is there is something for everyone, and you can pick and choose.  If you don't think the moon is a giant mind control Death Star, then you can just skip that chapter.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 09:35 | 869623 Oquities
Oquities's picture

Zachariah Sitchin, bitchez!

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:54 | 869063 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

I do as well.  I think the bible even frequently references loud machines or fire or wheels when referencing god or angels arriving.  Sounds like a space ship made out of gold because it is the best material for it.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:43 | 869191 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Naga, Please!

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:41 | 869183 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

but paper = high fiber.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:24 | 868983 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Goldshlager bitchez.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:09 | 869110 guestpost
guestpost's picture


Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:43 | 869187 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Ah, JonNadler has joined us again.  So what are the instructions from TPTIB (The Power That Is Blythe) tonight?  Oh, wait, I know!!!

Pt to $0.03

Au to $0.02

Ag to $0.01

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 01:15 | 869339 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

...and we'll be saying a big hello to all intelligent life forms everywhere...and to everyone else out there, the secret is to bang the rocks together guys..."  sub-etha radio broadcast in HHGTG

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 07:31 | 869513 Troy Ounce
Troy Ounce's picture


O yes, you can:


Wed, 01/12/2011 - 07:41 | 869517 Chappaquiddick
Chappaquiddick's picture

Oh yes you can and silver and a range of other very odd materials, but's far better to horde it and and polish it and love it and yak yak yak yak yak.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:49 | 868869 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

Hm, why does she dislike platinum? Does she prefer gold instead?

What generation are you guys from?

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:39 | 869178 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ fatass,

She does not dislike platinum, she just does not have precious metal fever like some of us here at ZH do.  Platinum is my sentimental favorite, it is heavy...

So it's up to me, at 54, to hold the PMs as insurance against .gov stupidity or an ugly Black Swan event.  I hold some food and guns & ammo as well.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:49 | 868722 Red Neck Repugnicant
Red Neck Repugnicant's picture

oh god. The most loathsome, wretched pig at ZH is offering insight about high quality women.  



all high quality women LOVE platinum. It's "very pretty" apparently...

Your post should read:  all high quality warthogs have a penchant for cornmeal.  It's "so tasty" apparently. 

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:30 | 868827 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

all high quality women LOVE platinum. It's "very pretty" apparently...

If quality=price and Platinum=blonde, this equation makes perfect sense.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:47 | 868865 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

What equation?

I might have exaggerated a bit with "all," but I've asked quite a number (I'd estimate 20-25) of non slutty, attractive women about their feelings on gold, silver, and platinum. I understand that there is a high demand for jewelry amongst women.

Most either didn't care much for silver, or expressed mild disdain for it. All talked about how good platinum looked when I asked if price was a factor in the unanimous #1 choice. Some stated that gold is too flashy.

Maybe it's just my generation that's in love with platinum.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:50 | 868873 Red Neck Repugnicant
Red Neck Repugnicant's picture


What equation?

This one:

XengXang + horniness = trip to the warthog farm


Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:55 | 868894 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

This is my last reply to you. I've already pummeled you twice; you have had to resort to school yard namecalling and making up random ass shit like your "equation" above, because you have been unable to counter me logically. At all. You even tried using one of my arguments as your own argument. I don't know why you're even responding to me; are you a masochist? Do you have no sense of self respect?

I'm tired of repeating my superiority over you, boy. It's not fun anymore. Can you tell by the way my language has changed? Of course not. You are white. Inferior brain (did you know that the white unemployment rate in America is higher than that of the Asian American unemployment rate? We do better than you even in your own country). Incapable of deep, critical thinking.

I know you will respond, boy. Hoping for another lashing from the whip. Sorry, bored.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:19 | 868910 Red Neck Repugnicant
Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:00 | 869083 Rylie
Rylie's picture

what did you Asians do copy western ideas and gadgets and make cheap replicas of them


Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:59 | 869228 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

I apparently also possess a superior command of your own language. English was my third; based on your inability to recognize correct punctuation and capitalization, I'm fairly certain it was your first.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 04:43 | 869475 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Those with deep-seated insecurities often feel a desperate need to blow their own horn, small though that horn may be.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 04:32 | 869469 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

what did you Asians do copy western ideas and gadgets and make cheap replicas of them


It is rather simple to understand why. Because it is one of the only sectors left in the west for "productive" work.

When you start a business, you perfectly know that you will meet duress from other competitors. The goal of competition is to eliminate concurrence, so new concurrence is not welcomed.

If Asians or more exactly Chinese,Indians, Russians or Eastern Europreans (Japan is beyond copying western ideas and gadgets) start their own IP businesses stuff and like, any corporation in the West will face the question of where to locate the production of their goods. With an expected outcome that it is required to move either entirely or partly the activity in the quoted areas of the world for various causes, as profits but also reduce concurrence by poaching their talents.

Which will result in an earthquake in the West.

People should not forget that outsourcing is the result of internal pressure to the West, that politicians have presented education as a solution to cope with the outsourcing phenonemum and expelling educated jobs to places where they will belong will not go that easy.

The reaction to outsourcing jobs for the educated is strongly adverse, especially when it is justified as it means no returns of the activity.


Wed, 01/12/2011 - 01:07 | 869327 trav7777
trav7777's picture

inferior brain?  WTF?

Let's see your slope record of inventions...I'm waiting

our dicks are bigger too

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 01:53 | 869378 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

Are you really that insecure about your own dick?

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 02:09 | 869395 Red Neck Repugnicant
Red Neck Repugnicant's picture

Hey XengXang

Speaking of Chinese dicks, did you ever see this movie?

No more yankee my wankee, the Donger need FOOD!


Wed, 01/12/2011 - 02:10 | 869399 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Sorry trav he got ya there. 1 billion plus countries know how to fuck. I wouldn't try to make people from india feel sexually inadequate either. It's not going to fly.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 04:47 | 869476 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Among other things Chinese invented eyeglasses and gunpowder back when anglosaxons were still living in caves. 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 01:31 | 869355 Tom G
Tom G's picture

"We do better than you in your own country".


So much hilarious stuff there. A true collectivist mindset, hidden in that false bravado. What do I care if the "average" asian american is more employed than the "average" white american? It seriously could not mean less to me. I concern myself with myself, not my white brothers.

And these averages have absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the brain of any individual white person you meet. Of course, the superior asian brain in your head should be able to figure that out for yourself, I imagine.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 01:56 | 869383 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

You concern yourself with yourself? So . . . you are not at all worried about your family, your own flesh and blood?

You do not give a shit about your cousins? You couldn't give a shit less about your race, the ones closest to you genetically?

Do humanity a favor and do not reproduce. Imagine the sort of father you would be; imagine how your kids would turn out.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 13:28 | 870388 Tom G
Tom G's picture

You could just change the argument and focus on one throw-away hyperbolic comment. Oh, that's what you did.

Of course I care about my family. I care less than that about my cousins. And I care as much for asian american strangers as I do my white american 'brothers' who I do not know -- ie., not much.

I certainly don't care if unemployment among whites is higher than unemployment among asians in America. Is my family taken care of? Yep. You're the one bragging about racial differences in unemployment as if that makes your brain superior to every white person's brain you encounter.

Would you prefer we talk about poverty rates among asians worldwide compared to poverty rates of whites? Does that mean I'm going to assume that I'm smarter and wealthier than every asian I meet? Absolutely not, but the comparison between the above assumption and your specious argument is pretty solid.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:51 | 868882 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Apologies, Fats. Your experience is your experience. Personally, I just don't 'get' platinum.

Now silver is both a fine metal and a great horse.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:54 | 868893 living on the edge
living on the edge's picture

I agree, platinum doesn't excite me. When the masses wake up, it will not be platinum that they buy. 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 01:19 | 869343 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Once Au and Ag become unavailable at any price, it'll be any port in the "perfect" storm...

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:02 | 868918 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

Hm. Just exercising contrarian thought. I'm loading up on silver and thinking about picking up a little bit of platinum just for shits; thus, asked females because of jewelery etc.

What do you mean when you say don't "get" platinum?

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:42 | 869027 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Well, platinum is obviously a high grade investment metal. But I watched the market for awhile and it seems more like it's controlled by two guys named Vinnie than actual market forces.

Now that I type it out, I guess the platinum marekt seems too much like the stock market, and I've already received burns over 90% of my body in that place, so I'm a little shy of anything even a little exotic.

Silver, they made coins out of when I was little. Gold, they made teeth out of when I was bigger. Those, I feel safe with.

Platinum just feels too trendy for comfort.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:33 | 869159 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

Thank you for the insight. I forget that young women tend to be quite trendy.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:49 | 869206 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Actually, I have to step in here and score one for the fatass.

I read, a couple of years ago, that young brides to be in China for the most part disdained gold, they wanted platinum.  I do not know if this is currently true or not.


Faux Red Neck!  The fatass writes very well and is a good arguer, so be on your toes if you want to pick a fight with him.

He is superior you know.  You don't even have to ask...

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 01:36 | 869358 Tom G
Tom G's picture

Plus, fatass, you forgot to mention that women have brains roughly a third of the size of men's brains. It's science.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 02:18 | 869380 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Yeah, 2/3 of the male brain is EGO!

But I'll pit my teeny i7 core against your Pentium 2.

It's all about clock speed, not size.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 03:11 | 869442 Red Neck Repugnicant
Red Neck Repugnicant's picture

I think I want to take you to dinner.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 01:59 | 869386 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

Yes, I think I've heard that before. Why do you bring it up, though? Are you trying to imply that because women's brains are smaller (women tend to be smaller in general), they must also be less capable intellectually?

Bravo, Galahad.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 01:08 | 869332 trav7777
trav7777's picture

huh?  You don't "get" it?  WTF about 6% of annual gold production do you have a struggle with?

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 01:41 | 869361 delacroix
delacroix's picture

fatass      you should have asked the sluts

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:27 | 868989 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

You've all got it wrong. Women like diamonds, gold or platinum is just the thing that holds the rock.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:48 | 869203 rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

..crows, too, are attracted to bright and shiny objects....

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:45 | 868859 clymer
clymer's picture

Now this made me fucking laugh

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:48 | 868868 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

Since you are apparently the perfect gentleman, tell us about women's preferences for PM's, boy.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:53 | 868890 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

MY preference for PM's is that you stop showing it and start giving it!

Me trade my sugar your platinum, big boy?

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:03 | 868922 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

I was talking to RNR, but in response to your offer, no thanks, diabetes runs in my family :(

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:35 | 869009 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Which sugar are you referring to? 

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:43 | 869029 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

If you've gotta ask, you don't get any. Sorry, that's how it works.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:48 | 869200 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Babies. Babies = guilt = child support gravy train

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 02:24 | 869421 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Yeah, raising some man's babies without the man around helping out is every woman's dream.

She wanted them. She's got them. I'm outta here, it's nothin' to me.

You'd think she'd be happy that he gave up the sperm willingly. Now the bitch wants to poor boy to help her house, feed and clothe the brats too?

Those kids are a gift, not a financial burden on her for the next 20 years. What a whore.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 07:44 | 869518 Chappaquiddick
Chappaquiddick's picture


You should contact the Pentagon, that rapier wit of yours would make a darn good WMD.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:39 | 868725 Arch Duke Ferdinand
Arch Duke Ferdinand's picture

Gold, G-d, Silver, Platinum have all been replaced.

The "F" word has become the most popular word in the English Language.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:54 | 868767 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Also, the one of the most popular pastimes.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:47 | 868867 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

The "F" word has become the most popular word in the English Language.

The "F" word? Which one.

Here on ZH, Fed is used a LOT. As is Fuck. But mostly, it's something like Fuck the Fed. So I'm guessing it's amost a tie as to which "F" word you mean.

Although Ferdinand also has a nice "F" ing feel to it, there are way too many syllables for Ferdinand to catch on with at least half of the population.

Same with Fellatio. Very popular indoor sport, but too many syllables to please the lips of many English speakers.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:35 | 869012 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Same with Fellatio. Very popular indoor sport, but too many syllables to please the lips of many English speakers.

I thought that was supposed to work the other way around.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:44 | 869032 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

See? Too many syllables and it gets all confusing.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:58 | 869053 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

I'm not sure if I have this right, but I think intercourse is how a girl gets a baby and fellatio is how she gets jewlery.  Sound about right?

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:05 | 869100 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

There's always an opening for the right man!

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:18 | 869128 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Rotflol.  I like roses on my piano, but I love tulips on my organ!

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:53 | 869215 The Disappointed
The Disappointed's picture

Thank you fifth grade schoolyard.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:57 | 869229 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

You're just angry because you tried to marry your sweetheart and found out it was illegal in all 50 states. Baah!

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:42 | 868738 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture


my reaction to this is .. yeah, so what? i like gold. Ben can't mess up my life if i have gold.

i don't have gold, bennie, JPM and GS own me.

i have it, i am free.

that's all she wrote.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:46 | 868861 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Silver yes, because it is money, and has been used as such, in addition to supply demand fundamentals.

Platinum is less compelling.  It is money, just like gold and silver, but is rarely used as such, likely due to its reletive rarity and the availability of gold.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:50 | 868878 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

True, was just thinking about the jewelry angle. Women ARE half the population, after all.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:03 | 868924 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

True.  You pay a higher premium for jewlery, but on the other hand it is much less likely that my wife is gonna come to bed wearing only gold coins. 

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 19:36 | 871582 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I think you could probably break down women's PM preferences along the lines of skin tone, and culture.

Gold looks better on dark skin than on caucasian skin, for instance, and silver looks better on brunettes than blondes, etc.

At least, to my eye...

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 00:30 | 869286 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Platinum is more difficult to strike into coinage as well.  Takes more pressure and wears out dies more quickly.  Just an interesting side note.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 02:13 | 869404 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Plus you can't catalyze gasses with platinum!!

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 00:27 | 869282 Clinteastwood
Clinteastwood's picture

Gold..............the improbable thoughts exactly.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 01:42 | 869366 Raynja
Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:18 | 869883 Triggernometry
Triggernometry's picture

Platinum is cheap, Rhodium is where its at, just don't let the ladies know.

As for gold, its not forever; everything heavier than iron eventually decays into iron, the most stable nucleus. Gold is certainly more durable than a diamond, which starts to slowly breakdown once removed from equilibrium conditions(the heat and pressure under which it was created).

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:19 | 868682 Bearster
Bearster's picture

So many words, so little cluefullness...

Just one error out of many: gold isn't rare.  Repeat after me: gold is not rare.

If you measure rarity in the only way that makes sense: the ratio of stocks to flows (inventories to annual production) gold is more abundant than any commodity.  By a country mile.


Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:19 | 868803 Mark Medinnus
Mark Medinnus's picture

The Bearsterism cluefullness proves that rarity is measureable in ways that makes no sense.

So measure this merrigold: cluefullness is not a word.    


Wed, 01/12/2011 - 01:23 | 869349 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Bah, verbogeny is one of many pleasurettes afforded a creatific thinkerizer.


Wed, 01/12/2011 - 03:57 | 869456 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Fabtabulosity is rareified mostlisest in your commentizations.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 11:52 | 870025 Triggernometry
Triggernometry's picture

Refudiate my diction

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:34 | 869162 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

That high ratio of stocks to flows (due to millenia of hoarding) is what makes gold the ultimate hard money.  Even the miners can barely print it.  So, in a sense, its non-rarity makes it more valuable!

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 02:57 | 869435 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Cluefullness. Isn't the English language just wonderful. You get to invent new words at whim. One I like is "gription": This silver bull market has gription.

Gription :-  traction, grip, torque, get up and go.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:22 | 868684 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

42 FTW

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:55 | 868770 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Don't forget your towel.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:14 | 868958 centerline
centerline's picture

and remember... Don't Panic.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:30 | 868999 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

Yes, deep thought found that 42 was the answer. What was the question?

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:52 | 869056 Blankman
Blankman's picture

What is six times nine?

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:52 | 869213 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

With those math skillz, how do you ever make it past Captcha

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 04:28 | 869467 The Answer Is 42
The Answer Is 42's picture

Nanny, read up on wikipedia. six times nine.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 02:07 | 869393 Got my Towel
Got my Towel's picture


Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:22 | 868685 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Gold has already been chosen by the Central Banks and the "Giants" as the preferred repository of wealth.

While silver may represent (probably does) a better spec than gold, gold will likely do better if things go wrong (they probably will).

I completely agree with the author that some kind of "gold standard" is unworkable and not desired.  Gold is valuable because man has DECIDED it is.

And so gold will just sit there...  Not being used (much) by industry and not eaten.  It will preserve wealth.  Gold will stay hidden, silver will get spent.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:37 | 868719 Mark Medinnus
Mark Medinnus's picture

"Gold is valuable because man has DECIDED it is."

  Yes, but how universal the decision!

"It will preserve wealth."

  Accepting nothing less, I want nothing more.


Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:12 | 868797 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

End legal tender laws, let the markets decide.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:42 | 869026 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Gold, Tresuries, and MBS backs the centrale banking system.  Which one will hold up?  Silver may become a unit of account on the bank sheet, like it did less than 150 years ago.

Hopefully you are right that it is first thought of as monie, and a commodity second.  Industry needs PMs, so they will be used up to a certain degree.  Will silver go faster than gold?  Well that has been the trend thus far and I agree that it will continue.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:23 | 868689 IQ 145
IQ 145's picture

 I just want to substitue Silver for Gold; all the same considerations apply; the only difference is you realize more increase in buying power.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:46 | 868750 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Very improper move, own 60/40 or 40/60, but bottom line for 5000+yrs Gold is, and has been recogzined as money, still is today.

Silver is also a monetary metal, and a commodity.

The latter is what causes it to bever be able to be ONLY MONEY.

So, therfore it can never take the place fo Gold. Ever.

Why do you think the worlds CB's, and vendors accept Gold far and away as value.Over any other metal, and why the CB's Whse it, by the ton.

I am on DO CHENS train, Plat is my favorite to own,but Gold is my only choice for wealth preservation.(as it is money).

Plat is 82x's more rare than Gold.But, like Silver, and Pal, it can never be MONEY.

It's a commodity also.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:03 | 868784 umop episdn
umop episdn's picture

I like silver more than gold too. I don't think I will mind if I have to trade my silver for gold because someone needs it for an industrial use. Silver has been money in the past, and will be again, imho. Perhaps silver will be more valuable as time goes by, even if gold is used as a measuring stick.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:15 | 868804 barkingbill
barkingbill's picture

what some of you so loyal to silver might want to think about is that if there is a collapse in the markets, a 2008 event or worse, silver will tank big time, gold less so. if we have a drawn out inflationary period with lots of demand, then silver will do much better, but if things go deflationary, then gold is the much better choice. am i wrong or right? im thinking out loud here...

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:06 | 868932 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

You are right and wrong at the same time.  Cool.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:18 | 868973 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture both.

Gold is the better choice as it is several times more valuable by weight. Easier to transport and store $10MM in gold than 10MM in silver.

Think about the saying: "Gold Standard"

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 00:03 | 869242 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Good seeing you back Oracle. I hope you and your family enjoyed your trip!

Buying all four is what I did: Au, Ag, Pt and Pd. But the bulk is in GOLD!

Even FOFOA owns silver, but he is now on record as saying that he would own approx. the same weight of silver as gold. That of course would mean that a similar plan means a much higher amount of value is in gold.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:56 | 869223 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

My mercury dimes will always be worth at least $0.10

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:56 | 869224 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

My mercury dimes will always be worth at least $0.10

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 14:59 | 870755 akak
akak's picture

But your $0.10 of today will not always be worth $0.10 tomorrow.

In fact, I guarantee you that it will not be.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 00:08 | 869248 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Pretty good train, ain't it DosZap?  Most interesting passengers I have ever ridden with...

Gold is the by far the greatest in value of the PMs I own, but I like to have some in Ag, Pt and Pd.  Partly for longer term speculation.

Rare earth metals WOULD have been a good speculation, say a year or so ago.  Now China won't let metals like Tb, Eu and Dy out...  Too bad, I think the rare earths have an interesting future.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:37 | 868845 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

I just want to substitue Silver for Gold; all the same considerations apply; the only difference is you realize more increase in buying power.

I'm totally with you. But only up to the point where Silver reaches whatever looks like a long-term ratio with the price of gold. Then, I'm trading in my many dozens of pounds of silver for many pounds of gold.

Or so I would like to believe.

Silver looks good overall. But gold has a history of people always believing in it, even when they're foolishly dissin' silver.

So I'm riding the silver express elevator up to the higher floors, then taking the gold local at the transfer point. I figure when I start hearing as much chatter about owning real silver as I do about buying gold, it's time to push the button and get off at the next floor.


Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:26 | 868695 Jerry Maguire
Jerry Maguire's picture

I haven't committed to gold - publicly.  But I think that's where things are going.  The author does make one good point:  no matter what monetary system is adopted, it can be corrupted, including a gold standard.  The symptoms would be different, but not necessarily any better.


Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:39 | 868727 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

tally sticks, debt free money----good

central bank debt backed money----very very bad

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:30 | 868831 Bagbalm
Bagbalm's picture

Junked for repetition.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:38 | 868848 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Junked because it's that spamming asshat Greenewave.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:41 | 868737 trav7777
trav7777's picture

wtf is this gold useless shit?

Look, if gold were ABUNDANT, there would be a ZILLION uses for its high conductivity and inertness, its density.

JFC, they have a zillion applications for metals resistant to corrosion, niobium, hafnium, zirconium, etc.  Gold can form alloys to increase corrosion resistance.

The ENTIRETY of use of SILVER for electrical conductors WOULD BE replaced with gold if gold were more abundant or cheaper.  Gold has tons of legitimate industrial uses, just not at $1400/oz.

Platinum is another with lots of uses, but already auto catalysts are substituting for it because Pd can serve almost as well and for half the price per oz (for now). 

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:54 | 868766 Theos
Theos's picture

I always enjoy your posts.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:08 | 869108 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

I will second that !

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 00:09 | 869251 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Please allow me to third that!

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 15:08 | 870780 akak
akak's picture

Y el quarto desde mi!

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:30 | 868829 barkingbill
barkingbill's picture

so you mean when gold was $250 industry was buying it up to use?


i think tradition plays a big role in the investment role of gold. the vikings loved gold, acient people everywhere. hold a chunk of it in your hand and you will see there is something to it. i also find silver to have something to it as well though. a kilo of silver is something. hold it in your hand. there is some wierd attraction that these metals have which has made people want them since they were first discovered. 

but yeah it makes good money for the above mentioned reasons too. 

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:08 | 868939 ColonelCooper
ColonelCooper's picture

NOoooo......  Because silver was 2.00.  You missed the point.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:29 | 868998 barkingbill
barkingbill's picture

yeah i get it now. i'll blame it on the hangover. 

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:59 | 868908 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Resistivity of gold is 40% higher than that of silver.  The corrosion resistance of alloys is a big one, though.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 01:22 | 869345 trav7777
trav7777's picture

gold is 3rd highest conductivity and inert, unlike copper and silver.  But, yes, alloying it in would split the difference between inertness and conductivity.  Aluminum is a highly used wiring metal now, at least in residential applications.  Look in the wall, you find a lot of aluminum in there.  Gold would be superior for that too. 

Gold is too expensive to overcome substitution.  Pt and Pd are far.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:57 | 868773 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

its not going to be a true gold standard all currencies will bounce off gold as a reference point. The dollar will be here. If you want to continue living your current life style and expect to drive an automobile for the next 20 years i think you'd better hurry and get some. The kingdom of saudi arabia is already saving their oil for future generations. We won't be just exporting dollars for oil in the near future. People will want something back or be able to quickly change those dollars into something tangible. Not the current system of flooding Citicorp with dollars as the sheiks do now to absorb the excess dollars. Whatever the price if the bank is willing to change your 1 ounce gold eagle for 50k then someone is willing to pay you.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:57 | 868774 Mark Medinnus
Mark Medinnus's picture

Assuming the author's sincerity, he might read Rothbard on money, government and gold. 

His golden compliments, however, sprinkled throughout the post, belie his metalic peeve. 

My conclusion: Bo's sentiments are rhetorical, not real.  

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 20:57 | 868775 Shameful
Shameful's picture

The value of ANYTHING is totally subjective. What is a 50in 3d tv worth? Can we look at it's utility and put a price on it that will make everyone happy? I don't watch TV so I might only pay 100 for it. J6P might love TV and pay 1200. A vegetarian is going to pay a lot less for a steak then guy looking to grill. It boils down to a personal value call.

People make up markets and individual choices make up the aggregate and help set the price. These is no law from God or nature about the objective worth of any good or service. A glass of water is worth a lot more to a thirsty man in the desert then it is to him in the comfort of his home.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:12 | 868796 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Price doesn't always reflect value. A gallon of gas is worth a lot more than $3. Gold is worth a lot more than $1400. That's why gold has a much higher price to central banks than 1400.

"Gold has always been funny in that way. So many people worldwide think of it as money, it tends to dry up as the price rises."
(ANOTHER, 1997)



Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:28 | 868825 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Perhaps it's worth more then $3 to you, it's worth more then that to me as well (I live in the SW and must drive in the sprawl). But you and I are not the entire market, there is a world full of people out there making a choice on the price. How much is gas worth to a man with no car? The price is the notational value the market has placed on a good. Our individual perception of the value to price is made and influences our buying patterns.

Values to people change and this impacts the prices they will pay, this is normal and happens every day. We can see the demand of regular tube TVs is way down. Not much demand for horse and buggies anymore either. The market will find it's price. Now if one can get in front of that public opinion on a price they stand to make a lot of money.

And if you wish to discuss conspiracy theories of oil and gold then I would love to talk about them. But seems like when I ask questions people run off.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:34 | 868837 barkingbill
barkingbill's picture

i think what he meant is that oil and gold prices are kept low on purpose. high oil price will hurt growth. high gold price hurts the value of the dollar and stocks i guess. 

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:50 | 868879 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Maybe oil prices are kept low so oil will 'flow'? Or maybe we just don't see the true price paid (cheap gold) for cheap oil? It's been done before.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 21:34 | 868840 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

You carry a lot of 'conspiracy theory' baggage. What kind of conspiracy allows anyone to take part? You can buy gold now and hold through the revaluation. You confuse conspiracy with emergent system. The Europeans float gold against their currency and have for eleven years. It is there to see in their financial statements. No conspiracy. Freegold is a process.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:23 | 868981 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Not enough gold in our solar system that could back a global currency thats why they dumped it in the 70's. They wanted forex,global trade, and the dollar was let loose ... 

So sure the euro could " float gold " .... And they have been begging ben for dollars over the last few years, geez' when we going to cut those darn swap lines ?

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 23:01 | 869090 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Gold is used in finance as the prop trade.  Gold backs the banking system.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 00:15 | 869265 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

There is plenty of gold.  All you want.  Just have to pay the price.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 00:45 | 869304 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Not enough gold...

Holy crap, not that old, worn out, invalid argument again. 

I thought you were smarter than that.

I'm disappointed.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 05:46 | 869490 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture


Gold is used to settle accounts. Paper is used when you want to pay for something on credit (IOU), when not having the where-with-all to settle the transaction between two parties, at the close of the agreement to exchange.

It's not that there isn't enough gold, it's just that the credit notes issued as money are IOUs . They are a simple cheque kiting scheme. They are not units of account. There is no means of settlement at their source as there is no intention to honor the IOUs promise to settle.

To be classified as "good as gold" again, the $ simply has to have its link to gold restored a few more zeros printed on it to revalue them compared to gold.

As they ($s) have no metric linked to them as a gauge of value, they intrinsically hold little to no value. They do carry a perceived value for exchange purposes as legal tender, but have absolutely no value as a settlement medium when used as a credit note.

There is plenty of gold to go around.

Tue, 01/11/2011 - 22:45 | 869000 Shameful
Shameful's picture

How does acknowledging a market price in a unit of measure give a currency strength? Why would the dollar not get the same treatment, or the Peso, or the Rubble, or the RMB? Wouldn't the ECB keeping oil in reserve do much the same function? Or silver? Or platinum? Or land? It is just an accounting change after all. Print enough and they will all go up.

As to conspiracy, good maybe you'll refute my argument then :)

I will listen to conspiracy theories that allow the players to act human. The precept of Freegold is that the CBs made a deal with the Arabs to get oil for gold. Creating a second market where gold is worth more. If Random_Banker can take gold from market A and sell it into Market B at 25x or more price I think that arb would be pretty well played out. To believe this has not happened is to assume that all people know of Market B are simply not human because will not act in self interest. Funny because seems like in other cases rich, powerful, connected people act in self interest. Especially since one major player could literally become mega wealthy beyond his peers leveraging the arb between these markets. When you apply game theory to this line of reasoning it breaks down, it even breaks down in the example FOFOA gave about freegold. If a second market was made worth that much of a difference they all would be playing it and all in to gain an advantage, this is clearly not the case because there is still physical. You will say it's hard to get. Well if I could turn around and sell for 35x my outlay I would have agents in India and around the world to buy all coins and jewelery to melt into bars. Hell Buffet could come out and offer 10k an oz and open "We Buy Gold Shops" and still make a 5x profit! Think that would knock loose gold from people's hands at 10k? So if this arb chance exists and it is wildly known in powerful circles it means that these powerful people are not willing to act in self interest and are arguably not human. In game theory at best 21% would not defect in these conditions, so 79% of humans would take advantage.

If there was a shadow cabal of bankers, don't you think they would have already taken full advantage and cornered the market before a revaluation? If that is true then how can hundreds of tons of physical gold flow to...India each year? Is India exporting a lot of oil these days? Is the average Indian in on the plot to to make gold cheap to buy up oil?

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 00:21 | 869276 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Shameful, I am not sure if your arbitrage idea is the correct way to look at the gold market, in particular how gold relates to oil and to large holders of gold.

I am not a good guy to argue FOFOA's points, but one of his ideas is that physical gold, in large quantities is very hard to get.

A guy I know had ONE HELL OF A HARD TIME getting his bank to buy a 100 oz gold bar for a trust benefiting his family.  A VERY HARD TIME.  Hmm.  Why?

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 00:49 | 869291 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Ok let me break it down.

Random_Banker is our actor
Market A is the normal gold market
Market B is the shadow gold market
GP = Market A Gold Price

Random_Banker learns of Market B, there is a group that will pay far more for gold then Market A, but will not enter market A to buy gold. Random is not dumb. He buys 1000 oz of gold from Market A for GP, he then sells in on Market B for 35 * GP. He then takes the $$$ he got from the sale and buys 35 * 1000 oz of gold from market A and sell that on market B netting a further 35 increase. He does this till he either controls all the $$$ on earth or Market A Price = Market B Price.

As to physical does not matter. If there was that big of a price difference Random would be buying jewelery to melt down and having guys scour the globe buying any scrap of gold. Because at the end not only would he make an insane amount of $$$ but knowing golds value he would control an obscene amount of it funded thought arbing the two markets. There would literally be no gold on the planet in market A, Random would scoop it all up.

Hell connect me up to Market B and I'll do it, give me a risk free way to make 35x on my money with a quick turn around and I'll move heaven and earth to get the seed money to kick off the arb. I'd stop when I passed Carlos Slim as richest man...and just be this guy, but way younger. I'm even willing to pick up a bad Russian accent if that will open market B to me :)

So if a lowly law student can figure this out, then wouldn't any random banker in the know figure out how to play the game?

BTW appreciate the response. I bring this up and no one is willing to debate this one with me, which seems like a huge weakness in the core story.

Wed, 01/12/2011 - 01:10 | 869334 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Lowly law school student my ass!  I am the only one in my family who flunked out of grad school twice!  Besides, lawyers are good at arguing...

I am not saying 55k is a done deal.  I WILL go along with FOFOA in that the REALLY large holders (the "Giants") have already placed their bets.  I have decided to walk in the footsteps of those giants.  And at the appropriate time, gold will become recognized as THE best wealth preserver in town.  FOFOA now says that he could see this stretching out to 2013 (as the financial crisis has delayed a freegold scenario, a reasonable argument), but it could also happen real fast (in the case of a Black Swan, my words not his).


The Bearing has almost completed his gold buying program (and this time I MEAN IT!  I really do!).  At that point, I will pull out my virtual feet, eat my virtual popcorn and watch events unfold.  I feel that the "2011: It's Only a Movie" will turn out to be pretty exciting...

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!