Guest Post: A Goldman Rebuttal

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Sat, 04/17/2010 - 17:17 | 305974 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

tyler's (no) trademark snark seems to be rubbing off nicely.

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 18:28 | 306039 Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

Oh, Dylan and Tyler have been near equally snarky for some time, athough Tyler will remain Headline of the Year writer for years to come.

Thanks for sharing Dylan. And thanks for posting this Tyler.

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 18:32 | 306042 damage
damage's picture

Howard, please check my comment in response to yours here:

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 19:33 | 306101 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Don't you think Howard that you are kissing everybody too much?

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 22:12 | 306267 Cookie
Cookie's picture



Sat, 04/17/2010 - 19:30 | 306097 spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

Respectfully disagree. TD, Marla, and Co are in a whole nother level.

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 21:52 | 306242 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

but they say that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 20:10 | 305978 velobabe
velobabe's picture

damn your hot‡


chinthe called it: IKB Deutsche Industriebank AG German Bank.


why do i get junked? mean

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 20:21 | 306141 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Being junked is the equivalent of having your name printed in the phone book. Remember the movie starring Steve Martin, "The Jerk"?

What we really need is something I saw on another web page that had thumbs up and thumbs down votes.

If you received a specific percentage of more thumbs down than thumbs up you really got junked and your comment was made to disappear. Although there was a link that allowed you to view the junked comment if you wished.

So, buck up my boy you're finally somebody now. Some ineffectual moron actually took the time to take offense to your comment.


1. not effectual; without satisfactory or decisive effect: an ineffectual remedy. 2. unavailing; futile: His efforts to sell the house were ineffectual. 3. powerless; impotent. (I think this is the proper definition.)
Sat, 04/17/2010 - 22:23 | 306264 velobabe
velobabe's picture

So, buck up my boy

not a boy, am a girl. and a sensitive one, at that†

but thanks for the pep talk.

we definitely need more satisfaction in our lives, especially at this junkture!

Sun, 04/18/2010 - 05:44 | 306469 squid_pro_quo
squid_pro_quo's picture

possible troll: you are not a girl. This is teh Internets, where men are men, women are men, and children are FBI agents.

Sun, 04/18/2010 - 15:46 | 306885 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture


And FBI agents are surfing pedophile porn to keep corporations free from copyright infringement, truth justice and the Amerikan way!

Actually women are fat balding Russian men after your credit card number to meet the above skinny Ukrainian blond in the picture...

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 17:28 | 305979 Budd Fox
Budd Fox's picture

"These investors also understood that a synthetic CDO transaction necessarily included both a long and short side"

False, utterly false, misleading and a plain lie. This transaction was among the first and few purposely created for someone to take a short side. It is even mentioned in "The Greatest Trade" Paulson's Italian analyst, that was one of the few to see the MBS crash and burning well in advance, and was lamenting than not even through the CDS markets was possible to get to the short side in big sizes. Goldman did this to cash fees BOTH sides...but if the DID NOT, SPECIFICALLY WARNED the counterparty who took the long side that there will even be a short side...THEY HAVE TO BURN IN HELL!!

Jail the up in the echelons as you can go!! A CRIMINAL investigation is perfectly warranted!!!

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 17:33 | 305984 rubearish10
rubearish10's picture

Cuomo has to be licking his chops on this one, hey? Wouldn't it be sweet if NY AG swoops in with that criminal charge next week?? Talk about ripe and ready for the KILL!!

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 17:40 | 305993 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

"sweet if NY AG swoops in with that criminal charge next week?"

not so sweet for NY residents who will have to live under him as the next governor.

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 17:49 | 306004 rubearish10
rubearish10's picture

Maybe worth it if GS has to liquidate....Hey, I remember Abrams, Lindsay and Koch for the city. That was hell on wheels!

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 18:14 | 306027 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

i know amigo, i just have a particular distaste for the new sheriff in town  and who knows, maybe clif high will discover the 'word' that reveals what's really behind Mr. HUD's slimy smile just in time for his inauguration. ;~)

Sun, 04/18/2010 - 06:00 | 306471 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

junk?  perhaps, we'll find out soon enough, won't we?  either way, tell Dandy Andy if he includes cannabis legalization in his platform, he's got my vote (not that i trust him to keep his promise).

Sun, 04/18/2010 - 12:54 | 306703 Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

fellow squidville resident, you know the city and state prison industrial complex requires large quantities of small time pot dealers/smokers to be profitable.  i'm sure the unions will make sure that never happens.  our state SUCKS.

Sun, 04/18/2010 - 13:35 | 306738 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

i know i know serf.  but again, when you're broke, something's gotta give.   speaking of unions, i heard recently from a vendor that the teamsters wanted to charge her $300/hr to work on the weekends at the Javitts at a trade show.    yes that's right, $300 an hour.  wonder how much of that time is spent in a hidden corner takin spliff breaks, cuz most of those guys move as slow as turtles.

Sun, 04/18/2010 - 14:44 | 306801 Alienated Serf
Alienated Serf's picture

oh, no doubt about that.  the javitts center has been a pit of mob/union corruption for years.  lots of investigations, no progress.  of course the teamsters have nothing on the rigging biz, so many bribes and crane collapses. good times.


Sun, 04/18/2010 - 15:53 | 306893 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"Cuomo has to be licking his chops on this one, hey"

Cuomo already said GS into a microphone three times while clicking his heels together to receive campaign bribes in return for going away...

I think Cuomo has to sit this round out by the "Schmucky Schumer Madoff Campaign Bribe Taking" rule...

it's proper etiquette you know...

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 22:06 | 306255 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

Bud, while I agree with you on the pursuit of criminal charges, I believe the initial pursuit of civil charges and the lower burden of proof was a brilliant stroke by the Obama Crime Syndicate. 


Get a little thing to stick, and the dam bursts open and becomes uncontainable.

GS has a LOT of enemies on the Street, and what goes around comes around.


Checkmate, Lloyd.

Sun, 04/18/2010 - 09:52 | 306538 SteveNYC
SteveNYC's picture

Yes, this is like the moment in a boxing match where you open a small cut on your oponents eyelid. At the moment, the blood is just a trickle, but if you have the guts to get in and out, and the accuracy, along with the will to take out your opponent, you will continue to bang away at that little cut until it becomes a gash.

If the ref does not say "no mas" then you'll surely hit that fucker until the eyelid comes off. We need some predators of this nature to (legally) go after the squid, it's very slightly injured, but the injury if targeted could kill it.

Sun, 04/18/2010 - 13:30 | 306734 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

nice analogy steve.

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 17:30 | 305981 rubearish10
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Well, if anyone reads these token rebuttals the right way, GS should trade even lower on Monday since GS traded up on these very remarks after the close yesterday.

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 17:36 | 305989 doublethink
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AP BERLIN — The German government may consider taking legal action in a case in which Goldman Sachs & Co. is accused of defrauding investors, a newspaper reported Saturday.

Read more:
Sat, 04/17/2010 - 17:37 | 305990 DosZap
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Unlikely any criminal charges will be brought.

Does this mean we can rob 7-11's?.

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 17:45 | 305999 rubearish10
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Based on what....? Actually, I think SEC and Cuomo have this all planned out. SEC first files civil suit as a federal agency "for the people" and Cuomo gets the collar on the criminal side. 

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 22:20 | 306276 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

if your hypothesis is correct, then this article on Rick Lazio (Cuomo's potential opponent in the NYLuvGuv race) may help shed some more light on the why it goes down in the way that it does:

Sun, 04/18/2010 - 20:51 | 307180 rubearish10
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This could really get interesting (for lack of a better word), fucking exciting!

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 17:38 | 305992 lawton
lawton's picture

People should be brought up on criminal charges for this and other actions also by the big banks not just GS. Cuomo is the only chance of that happening but I dont think he will quite pull the trigger on anything but Civil charges which is a joke with all that took place.

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 17:46 | 306000 rawsienna
rawsienna's picture

ACA largest shareholder was Bear. The firm was set up to be a patsy for the street. Why would ACA not put Paulson in comp to get the assets at best price? It is because they were being paid to be the streets bitch.  Seems to me if Paulson knew its "deal" was beiing marketed with false reps, they are a party to the fraud?

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 19:07 | 306075 jm
jm's picture

I think some Italian loan-words need to be imported to adequately describe this arrangement. 

Dialect of Sicily, of course.

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 22:26 | 306282 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Yeah when I saw that ACA Capital was in on this one I laughed my ass off.  As I recall, Bear owned 38% of ACA.

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 23:03 | 306310 Orly
Orly's picture

Of course.  It was all one big circle-jerk.

'Round and 'round it goes.  Where it stops, nobody knows.

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 17:47 | 306002 Unscarred
Unscarred's picture

Tyler, Marla...  Travis...  Bueller...

What happened to the "Zero Hedge Premium" concept?  Don't tell me it got Sached.

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 17:48 | 306003 boooyaaaah
boooyaaaah's picture

As usually happens the small fry --  28 going on 31---- before they are fried usually turn states evidence

And then the whole enchilada

The whole pandoras box

The hole can of worms

Comes un-done


Sat, 04/17/2010 - 17:56 | 306009 Mentaliusanything
Mentaliusanything's picture

Is it possible GS could, if proven guilty, lose their Licence to operate as a bucket shop.

Certainly it leaves a large gap in this can of worms for others to peak. Then would come Litigation after litigation until there is little left of the carcass. Certainly AIG and the other insurance patsies will have the first bite and just as certain this was not an isolated case (This is THE Question prosecutors will ask hoping for a yes and then lifting the curtain for the World to see the dirty laundry)   

Then its on to the others, JMP comes to mind.... Yes this fuse is attached to a very big Bunker Buster 

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 17:57 | 306012 Amsterdammer
Amsterdammer's picture

A view from Europe:


Liar's statement from Liar's investment bank:

Even CNBC doesn't buy it, they will ne left with

Fox-News and have opened a new funnel for


Thanks you ZH for covering all the angles on this story, hat tip, I feel as proud as when reading

the Pro-publica seven-months investigation

on the Magnetar Trade.

Very fortunately the mainstream media passed

on  this press-release. It would now be

greatly time that the British FSA started to

investigate GSI London, the Squid's offices

in London, an investigation that should have

been started after the disclosure of the "Titlos"

transaction with Greece, a well-known European

think tamk LEAP-GEAB having hinted that GS had

been also instrumental in helping  another European country

to cook its debts books...

And I have the strong suspricion it is the British debt

which is at stake.Let's see if this gives

Adair Turner and the FSA the balls to start an investigation

that may well wipe out Toryism off the map, in the memory

that the country is "run" by a former Finance minister.

and that, very surprisingly, all U.S ratings agencies

are reserving their review of the rating of the

UK's sovereign debt till after the elections (

unheard of this side of the pond ), while it

it widely blatant that none of the 2 (3) candidates

has the slightest proposal for cutting the

expenses and thus the all-time high deficit

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 23:54 | 306348 A_MacLaren
A_MacLaren's picture

Speaking of E2020 LEAP, Interesting report / forecast that has been put out in the most recent GEAB public announcement.

Global systemic crisis / USA-UK - The explosive duo of the second half of 2010: Summer 2010 - The Bank of England battle / Winter 2010 - The Fed at risk of bankruptcy Public announcement GEAB N°44 (April 16, 2010) 16/04/2010


So then, LEAP/E2020 asks two simple questions:

. who will be able/want to help the United Kingdom after the 6th May when its political chaos will inevitably expose the advanced meltdown of all its budget, economic and financial parameters?
. who will be able/want to back the United States once the British fuse has started burning, causing panic in the sovereign debt market in which the United States is, by far, the largest issuer?
Not so different a question that what Sprott asked, and the Cinese MOF have asked. Who has so much money to buy all this debt?
Sat, 04/17/2010 - 18:01 | 306017 M31Capital
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They love stressing the sophistication of the people they are ripping off.

Sun, 04/18/2010 - 01:25 | 306414 Temporalist
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I completely agree.  And those same people should then be sophisticated enough to realize there is blood in the water and either be greedy and prey on the wounded or want to save their own asses/losses any way possible including throwing anyone under the bus. 

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 18:03 | 306018 non-anon
non-anon's picture

Since 1869, GS has had some time to hone their "skills".

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 18:05 | 306021 Yossarian
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I am surprised that ZH is so outraged by this.  I know they want GS blood and so do I, but I don't think this is that damning.  Who cares- is this different than what anyone else was doing?  Did they misrepresent the underlying collateral? Did anyone here know who John Paulson was pre-crisis?  So the counter-party wasn't a natural hedger- did he have the only working Chrystal Ball in the world?  He didn't KNOW anything was going to fail- he took a bet and wanted the highest yielding, most risky assets included in the bet.  Maybe it crosses the bounds of legality but I am not "outraged."  This is merely a smokescreen to distract us from the big issues.  

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 18:49 | 306059 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

This is all timing. The real issue is obtaning control over this uncontolled cowboy market. The obvious conflict of interest lies with GS policing themselves in a market that should be on an exchange, or not exist at all. Thus the timing of the SEC lawsuit with the Obama anouncemnt of tighter controls over these ungegulated markets will allow this issue to linger on. The lawyers will have a field day. 

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 18:53 | 306061 rawsienna
rawsienna's picture

the fraud was in the presentation - claiming the assets were selected by a "indpendent" CDO manager.

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 19:42 | 306106 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

This might just turn into a tobacco-type of circus with everyone piling on.  The tobacco companies knew they were making a product that hurt people.  There was all kinds of evidence, memos, and company research.  Now substitute MBS for tobacco.  This could end up being a real political windfall.  States could collect damages against the fraudsters, and everyone (historically) will be able to point a finger at the "bad guys" who caused the greatest financial disaster ever.

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 20:54 | 306182 The Merchant of...
The Merchant of Venice's picture

What is the big issue?

It's too late for GS to fail.  With bank holding status they can kill the whole system.  They'll get slapped on the wrist.  They'll take a monster fine.  Some will lose their licenses.  GS will live on.

Bernanke and Geithner need to go to jail.  First objective is to get them out of the President's protectorate.

What is the quickest route to making Bernanke and Geithner public citizens again?  In their current seats no prosecutor can touch them.

Sat, 04/17/2010 - 23:40 | 306338 Double down
Double down's picture

"Stupidity" trumps reason at the damnedest of times.

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