Guest Post: The Great Global Debt Prison

Tyler Durden's picture

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Sophist Economicus's picture

You're one of the ZH contributors I really  enjoy reading -- thanks

Hephasteus's picture

That's whats so great about the end of something. It attracts all the finest people.

"We can say with certitude that the universe is all center... The unverse is everywhere and it's circumference is nowhere"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giordano_Bruno

Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Great post, great topic, great title.  For sure, this is the elephant in the room, the debt-based, commercial bank-run fiat money system.  It is time for a reset, a clean start.  I don't claim to have the answers, but I do recommend we adopt a trial-and-error based system.  It is time to put an end to usury and compound interest.

Check out the latest from the Capital Research Institute:

http://www.capitalresearchinstitute.org

Why the Fed Can't (And Won't) Raise Interest Rates

It has been clear for a longtime that the wrong course of action was taken in September 2008, when the US public voted against TARP and the bailouts, but Congress voted for it. Corporations that took excessive risks should have either been regulated properly to start with, or should have been punished for their risks; the very definition of capitalism.   Instead the public took on private debts, which did nothing but reward bankers for failure (they ran their companies into the ground, but got another chance thanks to the US taxpayers, a 2nd chance every small business owner is dying to have) .  It is time to face the facts, and realize those debts will never (and should never) be paid off, and certainly not by the US taxpayers, who had these debts foisted on them by politicians and central bankers.  It is time for the central banks of the world to be held accountable, and removed from power.  It is time for a grand debt restructuring, or as it used to be called, a jubilee.

Or, we could just continue with currency devaluation (which is in essence stealing from people who save their money), record food inflation (worldwide) and debt slavery.

DosZap's picture

Get rid of Fractional Reserve Banking and we're halfway home.

Not $9.00 out, for every $1.00 deposited.$ for $, or US Notes for US Notes.

Also the Jubilee is a great idea a Jewish Law Commandment.

Replace Federal Reserve notes, with UNITED STATES CURRENCY.

Why should a Sovereign nation have to pay interest on fiat debt based notes, created out of thin air?.

IF we print our own currency, and use the assets of the nation as collateral, we are our own masters.

We are not encumbered by a slew of foreign banks, that keep their boots on our necks.

 

snowball777's picture

As someone who has no debt and doesn't go ass-up for bankers, I say, "FUCK YOUR JUBILEE!".

If you stupid assholes hadn't bought into debt as a lifestyle and the affectation of wealth since Raygun, you wouldn't be in this mess.

 

tickhound's picture

By "you" I assume u mean the american government.

snowball777's picture

No, I mean the American people AND government. It takes two to tango.

Malcolm Tucker's picture

Here is a post comparing Tony Blair (major tool) and George Galloway (consistent thorn in the side of Blair) speeches on Egypt, VIDEOS included:

http://fedupmontrealer.blogspot.com/2011/02/tell-what-politicians-really-think.html

Galloway is ^&*%ing AWESOME
tickhound's picture

And yet your criticism often seems directed at the American people (at least the ones critical of the status quo), and supportive (in some cases even sympathetic) towards us government policy. It takes two to tango but only one can lead.

snowball777's picture

When was the last time a bank forced you to take out a loan?

 

tickhound's picture

Never... the fed and its supporting institutions, never ask, yet I'm forced to pay back, as are you, through higher prices, a decade of lost retirement equity returns, social security returns that I assure you won't cover inflation, wage stagnation, higher fees, and higher taxes (if not now, soon enough). And to boot, interest rates so artificially low, that people are nearly "forced" to speculate as saving becomes a lost cause. Am I forced to take a personal loan? No. But one way or another, we are forced to pay debts of which I bear little, if any, responsibility. So criticizing the little guy, whether he prudent or not, is hardly worth the time... since even the responsible are held liable.

snowball777's picture

My point is that the TBTF wouldn't be TB without the help of "the little guy"...fractional reserve lending is a participatory ponzi (unlike SS).

I'd rather avoid the crash entirely than quibble about responsibility after Humpty is an ex-egg.

Hephasteus's picture

There's not going to be any damn jubilee. It'll be force majeur. Quit patting yourself on the back for the choices and strategies you employeed that you want to be right just because you lost out on the pig trough. It's just fucking stupid materialistic crap. When you die you can't take it with you and unless you know what the hell your doing you can't even play with it. I'd leave pennies out on my desk. My mom after she died would move them all over my place and take any she found outside and stick them in front of the door. So for a week every time I'd look down to unlock the door there'd be a penny there. LOL

Quit worrying about socializing your fellow debt junky and worry more about the real fucking monster in the room. THE BANKS.

ArrowDynamic's picture

The Devil never forces people to do anything...indeed, he can't.  However, he can create an environment around people that tricks them into thinking they need such things, exploiting their weaknesses.  Intelligence, or the lack thereof, makes for an unlevel playing field when looked upon as a one-size fits all.

velobabe's picture

Arrow Dynamic, i just like you already.

bingo. i just thought if you have gold and silver when you die, your inheritance won't be taxed. like the death tax on property, etc. this is another brilliant light about owning gold and jewelry.

ArrowDynamic's picture

Which is why I invest in such vehicles...and hide it well.

Sean7k's picture

Every day. The national debt is a function of bankers using non-existent money to fund things at our expense. Through leaders they place in power and control. This debt is owed by you AND me. It incurs interest that further diminishes the buying power of the currency they require us to use. 

Your definition of debt is a bit naive.

Bob Sacamano's picture

I love when people complain about the system of debt yet they fully participate in it by borrowing money not because someone held a gun to their head to borrow, but because they are greedy. 

At the end of the day, the only reason one borrows is because they are greedy - they can not wait and they believe they are entitled in some way to purchase things with money they do not have (and many feel they are entitled because they are a victim of some sort).  This philosophy fits very well for the big government set in vogue for the past 80 years (with brief respites along the way).

Borrowers are willing to presume upon tomorrow so they can live better today.  Many times presumptions about tomorrow don't work as planned and then the borrowers want to complain the system is rigged against them. 

Stop borrowing now.    

 

tickhound's picture

And these "greedy borrowers" deferring till tomorrow include governments, eh?

snowball777's picture

Most definitely; war ain't cheap. Neither is pretending that we can prevent anyone from ever going hungry, or without work, or that we can indefinitely postpone our inevitable demise with subsidized medicine.

 

tickhound's picture

So you're an advocate of if u aren't awake by now, u deserve to stay asleep... or keep the life boats reserved for those who own the right assets... or you're intelligent but a heart is for pussies... or support the system because I know how to skim it and f' you if u don't... or ride the bull until it bucks u cuz I'm hedged regardless. Or u just like to troll? Any of the above? Ill admit I've been there, there's people I know who are f'd and deserve to be.. excessive abusers of debt financed consumption.

snowball777's picture

I don't want people to stay asleep...their slumber is what enables the 'cavaliers of credit'.

The lifeboats should be for everyone, but we should all take turns at the oars. I'm intelligent, and have a heart, but no patience for solutions that are more about subsidy for certain industries than actually solving the problem.

I work for a living (software contractor...used to work at Blizzard back in the day) and don't skim much beyond the occasional specious write-off (e.g. a PS3 that I use for 'testing' *cough*).

I own no equities beyond some strategic shorts, so the bull can be made into steaks for all I care. PMs, cash, and hard assets for me.

I'm only a troll in the sense that I'm a progressive who enjoys combat with libertarians for my own ed(u|ifi)cation, but the stuff I put out there is what I'm actually thinking and not 'for effect', if you will. An open mind often reads as cognitive dissonance at first blush, but I can't afford the luxury of a narrow perspective in the name of consistency (hobgoblins, minds, do the math).

 

tickhound's picture

Well I assume u are no progressive in our current neo-sense... progressive in a venus project sense? In which case that explains a lot... as free markets and money play no role.

snowball777's picture

While I do like me some King Crimson, I was referring to the political 'suasion. That's the problem with trying to define a multi-dimensional problem space along a single axis for simplicity, I suppose.

 

tickhound's picture

Totally fair... to me those true "suasions" have been lost to both parties and attempts to retrieve them hijacked. Libertarians arise by default as encroachment persists... cuz who's lookin out for me? Theres much in common in zh... many have lost sight of those similarities. I await something new.. hedged for the bang. In the meantime I say f the fed, f those self appointed sleeping defenders of the status quo, and f the eternal growth paradigm. Ad hom away. Best, snowball.. u prick.

tickhound's picture

Ps king crimson yes... but I was referring to zeitgeist and the venus project. A movement away from scarcity, and towards abundance through technology. It shuns most "institution", including our monetary system.

Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Snowball, I disagree with you in regards to jubilee, obviously, but thats cool you were at Blizzard.  Diablo, man, that was some of the finest pointing and clicking the world had ever seen!  What a classic.

dogbreath's picture

Zeitgeist??   Technology can solve everything.  You will still have 2 cars in the driveway and live on a 5 acre plot.  Techno-communist crap. Atheist delusions that humans are above all and technology will conquer all problems. 

tickhound's picture

No promoting... just testing the limits of "progressive" in the true sense of the word. But you're right... rather than contemplate what u call "atheist delusion" that has a foundation in something crazy like science, I should first check with that guy in the sky guiding us all to the light.. zeus I think his name is.

wisefool's picture

Agree. The kid is good at what he is doing. In 10 years he might even be at Glen Beck/Racheal Maddow level of button pushing. All of the pshyco analysis hooks in the atheist/oprah crowd. The way he does the monetary system is good enough for us to nod our heads, but J6P will "just say hell yeah, I an being screwed by the Man!." without a fundemental understanding.

Neither analysis are sufficient to justify the effort, which is probably on purpose, because the real point is he thinks he is the guy with the best SimCity (city design/modeling game) on the net. I'd like to see him get some congress critters to go to tell some 65 year old retiree that they need to give up thier paid off 2,000 ft single family home with a 1/2 acre lot so they can tear it down and the "owner" gets live in a dormatory 10 years ahead of plan. (nursing home) while utopia city is being buit. Nobody with a conciense could do that.

Or go build it out in the middle of nebraska and see how many people flock to these I-houses when south Beach condos are not even selling at forclosure.

ArrowDynamic's picture

Or, perhaps, they are playing the hand that has been dealt to them.  In terms of self-preservation, folding is not an option to many.  We all are inclined to kill if we have to survive the environment in which we are born.  Many people never realize they can either be a force to act upon things or be a thing that forces act upon.  One-size-fits-all thinking is never an accurate dipiction for the reasons of allowing debt to cure a situation.  An example might be that your present budget is sound for borrowing for a new dependable car.  You see a few raises coming up in the next couple of years because company policy says you have not capped out yet.  Then, a last quarter of 2008 hits and changes the dynamic.  Now, a day trader may be informed enough to see what was coming down the road; but, for the casual fella who just goes to work everyday looking forward to time healing things for him would never give any suspect.  Just because his future did not pan out does not make him any less responsible at the time he made the decision to go into debt.  And just because he is less informed does not necessarily make him greedy.

In Fed We Trust's picture

     Borrowers are willing to presume upon tomorrow so they can live better today.  Many times presumptions about tomorrow don't work as planned and then the borrowers want to complain the system is rigged against them. 

 

You know pesumptions about who would a thought, Wall St would purposely package this bogus loans and sell them to their best clients while betting against the market possible causing the whole market to collaspe. No these loans werent forced, they were just given away! 

Why would Wall ST banks purposely buy junk loans?  Why? I have a few theories but...Ha d I heard about this Ninja loans, sure I would of of went and got one. Good thing I was living in a cave at the time. 

Who would presuposed the socialistic take over of this country, not to mention the market crash caused by the same bankers who didn't force us to take a mortgage.

Let me guess, you work for the banks? 

cosmictrainwreck's picture

well, as a general principle, I tend to take any premise that begins with "you stupid asshole" with a lotta salt

Kaiser Sousa's picture

"As someone who has no debt and doesn't go ass-up for bankers, I say, "FUCK YOUR JUBILEE!".

ur soap box has been removed "shorty" cause ur talking loud and sayin' nothin... ur ire is misplaced...

"if you stupid assholes hadn't bought into debt as a lifestyle and the affectation of wealth since Raygun, you wouldn't be in this mess."

apparently u think u will be spared cause ur so much smarter than the rest of us "stupid assholes"...yeah, ok debt slave...ur bout to see just how smarter and free of this mess u truly are...keep talkin....

Disclaimer: I got Au & Ag n bulk...so dont bother talking shit.....

snowball777's picture

I have many 100oz silver bars and enough gold coins to make you plotz...and I got them between '99 and '2003 too.

Color me unimpressed.

DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Well good for you snowball, the conservative/libertarian Bearing is surpised that you are taking personal responsibility for your personal financial survival.

Color me a bit impressed!

merehuman's picture

 i worked all my life without credit and have no debts other than the IRS for whom i will NOT work. I got food and toilet paper and aint trading for no gold.My measly 100oz silver will have to do, and i may give that away as well. 

I did all this prep only to have my mate die . So now i feel like someone who has nothing left to lose.

DoChenRollingBearing's picture

.

.

merehuman, you have passed along to us some details of your life, please allow me to pass along a small piece of mine to you.

A kind lady was in my Tai Chi class for some years.  I got to know her and her husband gradually.  He was a very different kind of a guy (well all of us are...), and I was getting pretty happy to be making a great friendship.  We talked politics and finance and shit.

Then (you probably know the rest), she emails us with the fact that he had lung cancer...  Well over several months he fought it, fought it hard.  They GOT it out of his lungs, hallelujah, but the cancer had found its way to his brain.  The radiation did not work...  And he died several months ago.

SHE is devastated.  Since I believe that many of us have similar stories of a loved one who has died horribly, THAT is why many of us chose to ignore your suggestion about not wasting bandwidth on passing along our sorrow to hear that and our best wishes to you.

...

I can see why you may feel that you have nothing left to lose, and you are quite right.  Fcuk the IRS...  If you do not have children, then you are indeed FREE to do as you choose.  My only hope is that you will keep us informed.  I have been moved by you merehuman in the past.

FYI, you had encouraged me to bail out and head for Peru!  Well, I am not there yet, but 3 other ZH-ers were able to figure out how to get in touch with me.  The four of us have formed an informal "Peru / Gold Discussion Group", whose purpose is to look at countries to bail to and how to do it right.  We are off to a rip-roaring start.  So, in a way I have followed your advice in that I (and others) are still looking hard at where to go if we push the panic button.  I see that you are going to stay.  That may yet be the most courageous way, some of us rats may get off this ship if we think it is sinking...

merehuman's picture

the relationship with this much older woman was derided by many in her family. It was said when harry gets his money he will be gone.1/4 million, taxes and bills all paid the whole world was open to me but she was without pretension,honest to the bone and lived in her heart more than her head. Her x of 60 years abused her in every way and i did all i could to undo years of subjugation. After the wife died i had no other plans and material things lost my interest long ago. I was a poor business man, never charged enuf and no one understood when i said i did it for myself. Humans , we all see ourselves as seperate and on a strictly material level thats true, but from a loftier position an intertwinement can be found. When others think ill of me i know it from miles away.

she died sunday. Tuesday 8 relatives came to the coast who rarely found their way here before. Wanting the washer, drier frig, ah geez the vultures are impatient. as it is i bought all that and the house is left to me and i could care less.

It is good to band together in times like these as each one of us becomes a mark to someone more hungry.  Ih, yeah i had to call the cops on folks i trusted . 

As to Death, practicing self observation, in time i learned i am a living awareness inhabiting this body. Over the years many experiments and experiences have proven that to be true. Its also true we can leave the material body at will with practice. Once you do you  cannot help but lose fear of death. Still not crazy about the process .

 

 

merehuman's picture

I was her full time care giver these  last weeks. 90 % of the day revolved around her . it wa s a labor of love and i managed to stay loving and gracious despite much difficulty. I am a bit proud of that as i know folks who blew a gasket from the stress.

Last 8 years without sex would be enough to run most fellers off. They are likely also looking for a pretty face while i search for who i may trust and will return the love i give them. if not returned, the well dries up.

Its time, take that foreign vacation. Avoid low lands no matter where you are.

BTW all research shows the galactic plane crossing is for real. that bites and i still hope its bullshit.

 

 

snowball777's picture

You were very lucky to have found the only true wealth available to us in the short time we're here; few appreciate it even when they do.

 

SteveNYC's picture

Thank you for sharing your story MH. My condolences to you, although I know you don't need them given what you have already discovered about life and death (or, the non-existence of).  Your beauty has gone nowhere, it was just time to evolve.

All my best to you.

Kaiser Sousa's picture

"I have many 100oz silver bars and enough gold coins to make you plotz...and I got them between '99 and '2003 too."

wow, me too...and been buying since 1990...so, now who's got the biggest dick and who cares???...ur ire is misplaced...regroup and develope some empathy for ur fellow man...

until then i "color u still an arrogant delusional asshole"...peace b with u...

Yen Cross's picture

Your definitely not an ETF entity.

LawsofPhysics's picture

I sincerely hope you don't keep your silver and gold in a bank.  I certainly don't.

Boxed Merlot's picture

Whether its jubilee, debters prison, frns and treasury interest bearing script, I'll admit i don't know and I don't care.  But through my apathy and ignorance I will continue to maintain that buying US mint issued precious metal collectibles and sitting on them is as idiotic as conjuring up frns, treasury script and adding these ciphers into BIS ledgers to achieve some random point of "balance" it's ludicrous.  If it's not in circulation, why bother? 

 

The US mint should return to the constitutionally mandated responsibility of minted intrinsically valuable coinage for circulation, (one of the reasons for 90% "junk" is because it wears better), and if the treasury would issue US notes redeemable in said currency we could flush this private sector federal reserve script all off shore.  2/3 of it's out there anyway.

 

Money may have power, but soveriegn power trumps monetary "power" any day.  It's time for the US citizenry to exercise it appropriately.  1860-65 saw the US civil war and the end of involuntary servitude, 50 years later, 1913 and Jekyll Islanders make US citizens US "taxpayers", 50 years later-1962-3, JFK issues US notes redeemable in intrinsically valuable coinage, he and notes end in sudden death.

 

Now here we are 50 years later.  What say you?

 

(Actually the jubilee was the second year after the usual 7th year sabbatical.  Every 7th 7 year sabbatical had a second year of no planting and rest, hence 7x7=49 +1=50.  Could've been a captcha.)


cosmictrainwreck's picture

further to my spoonful of salt criterion would be statements that claim "the only reason......" for complex events in a complex world [to Bob S above, and his "the only reason one borrows is 'cause they're greedy"]

 

PS: go fuck yerself, ya goddamn know-it-all

snowball777's picture

Your vote for personal irresponsibility is duly noted.