Guest Post: Greece - Is The Shotgun Wedding Still On?

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Tue, 05/17/2011 - 15:52 | 1284350 carbonmutant
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"Greece is willing to discuss the prospect of a "soft restructuring" of its debt if needed, its deputy foreign minister said on Tuesday"

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/05/17/us-greece-restructuring-idUSTR...

Sounds like it's going to take stiff proposition to penetrate Greek opposition...

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:17 | 1284473 TruthInSunshine
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Sorry to go OT on your post, CM, and I won't do it often, but:

Robotrader's mom is now destitute, and living off donations from kind hearted souls, as Robo 'Nails' Trader had her put her life savings in Coldwater Creek, and she's blown her savings up (the other MoMo failures of late only exacerbated her pain - RoboTrader was having her invest in Leo's Chinese Solars and even some Chinese Fraud/Sham stocks):

If you can spare some money in these hard times, send some money for food her way, because RoboTrader has fled, and there's rumor that some Russians and Triads are looking for him.

 

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 15:56 | 1284371 Maniac Researcher
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Sharing Information Corrupts Wisdom of Crowds

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2011/05/wisdom-of-crowds-decline/

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:43 | 1284589 topcallingtroll
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Wow!

This explains the troll curve.

Why there is an optimal number of speculators needed to liquify a market and improve efficient price discovery.

Too many speculators with too much shared information cancels out the crowd effect.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 15:54 | 1284377 vote_libertaria...
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The banks may have smartened up about CDS exposure (or maybe not) but there is a lot of dumb money around the world.  Probably a lot of hedge funds levered to the hilt that would blow up.  Where did they borrow from?  The banks.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 15:57 | 1284393 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

There is no way Greece gets a good deal out of all of this.

Maybe they should just default and get it over with.  Sooner or later they will.  Their creditors should suffer a good haircut.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:16 | 1284433 Mr Lennon Hendrix
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From what I can tell they have had the poor side of the deal since the beginning, which must be why the people of Greece have been rioting in spurts for over a year now.  They sold their islands (and to whom I am still not sure), China "bailed" them out, they have had two debt restructurings (right?  last year and this...) and so, DoChen, I agree with you, it ends in default. 

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:00 | 1284394 Jack Sheet
Jack Sheet's picture

The in-fighting is on for the juicy bits of collateral (energy companies, pension funds, the next 50 years of olive oil production ) - they used to call it asset stripping.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 00:39 | 1286057 silver140
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Yep, what the IMF and World Bank (US/Euro/corporate fascists)have been doing to the "third world" for decades.  Now it's our turn, asset stripping here and in Europe. There's no limit now.  They've got the power and it's being used.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:00 | 1284402 buzzsaw99
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Bust a deal, face the wheel.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:41 | 1284560 topcallingtroll
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That would be much more exciting!

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:00 | 1284406 Encroaching Darkness
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Where in all this is there even a mention of changing the culture - the idea that the government should and will take care of the average Greek? Is anyone saying that the Greek functions like pensions, services, and so forth should be privatised?

Until you cure the cause, pouring water on a gasoline fire will only spread the flames - gotta find the shutoff valve and make people responsible for themselves again, or it will just flare up again, bigger, later.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:09 | 1284422 agent default
agent default's picture

Forget about Greece, Greece along with Ireland and Portugal are toast and this has probably been priced in fully already.  What about Spain though?  Is that fixed?  Everyone seems very quiet about that one. 

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:20 | 1284466 butchee
butchee's picture

The most appropriate analogy for Greek debt is a the micreant progeny of the shotgun wedding of a circle jerk and a clusterfuck!  Spain is indeed the big question mark out there....for it is at once too big to fail and also too big to save and has some bizzare accounting systems that obfuscate and both aid and abet the lies of the bankers and administration.  http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/6e89358c-7fee-11e0-b018-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=rss#axzz1MZgb377v

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:19 | 1284481 kushmere
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Linking to FT should be illegal.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:32 | 1284528 butchee
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Just a repost of a link Tyler himself posted this morning....sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:09 | 1284429 Ben Probanke
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22:06 17May11 RTRS-LIBYA SAYS IT HIT A NATO WARSHIP DURING AN EXCHANGE OF FIRE  AFTER THE VESSEL SHELLED MISRATA

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:19 | 1284448 Mr Lennon Hendrix
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Part of me is cheering Gadaffi...damn you Hegel!  Will the people not sit together and realize that the money spent on war would solve...the debt...the problems..everything!  These two sides, they are of the same coin.  Yet, if you choose not to use the coin.  Anyway, until we all reach nirvana, buy silver.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:11 | 1284434 francis_sawyer
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Hey little sister SHOTGUN!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAZQaYKZMTI

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:18 | 1284458 rsi1
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THE SOLUTION TO GREECE´S PROBLEM IS SO EASY!

they just need to call up a few banks, GS probably their favourite, and start selling CDS on themselves like crazy. This will give them cash to repay debt and cover the deficit, the good thing is, the more CDS protection they sell the lower their borrowing costs go, so they should sell all they can asap to get the current high bps, and then add as things move down until they reach 0! Following this strategy things cant go wrong! :)

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 17:09 | 1284729 Pepe
Pepe's picture

Don't make deals with the devil, Greece. Remember GS gave you the money needed to join the EU. That is of course pure coincidence

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:37 | 1284558 sabra1
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the greek pensions will be hurt, meanwhile the fed has their grubby little hands on the other nations pensions. see, you don't need austerity people!

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:49 | 1284562 Hedgetard55
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The loser Greeks jumped the shark 3,000 years ago. They had their day, now they are just debt addicted socialist moron libtards - witness Leo K.

 

You would think they would have learned something from Odysseus, but no, they could not resist the siren song of socialism, something for nothing...

 

and for every junk this post gets, three or four of you tards are agreeing with me.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:54 | 1284655 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

Bring back the Drachma!!!

 

Initial valuation of the "New Drachma"?  1,500 Euros to one ND= here's 50 million ND debt-holders!  Problemo solvedo!

 

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 16:57 | 1284657 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Leo should go home and help his people.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 17:00 | 1284688 honestann
honestann's picture

DEFAULT.

DEFAULT.

DEFAULT.

These discussions get so boring.  Yeah, I know, it isn't ZH, it is the predators-that-be who won't let the BS end.  Default is the only viable answer.

In fact, default is the appropriate answer in every way.  It teaches morons who lend to governments that doing so is stupid.  It hopefully teaches morons who might lend to governments in the future that doing so is stupid.  It also reduces (or hopefully eliminates) the availability of further addictive and self-destructive loans AKA debt, and helps the population get used to living a more honest (and much less stressful) life.

DEFAULT is the answer.  To greeks and everyone else: STOP letting the predators steal you blind.  DEFAULT, and add to the constitution a prohibition against government debt.  Or better yet, stop believing that government exists, or has any right to a penny from your pocket, or to obligate you and your descendants in any way.

DEFAULT.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 17:07 | 1284720 Pepe
Pepe's picture

Agree. Default and show the middle finger

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 17:59 | 1284887 Jacks Cold Sweat
Jacks Cold Sweat's picture

We got free from the Turkish chaps 190 years ago.

162 of them were democratic years.

172 goverments have been running the ship since day 1.

1.06 per year. 

$35,471.72 is the debt per head while in our neighbours in Italy it's 40k+and nobody  gives a rats ass about them..

they can't let Greece default..

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 22:45 | 1285844 honestann
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They can't STOP them from defaulting.

Iceland said no.  Twice.  So should Greece.

Sure, they will definitely need to cut back on useless and counterproductive government employees and programs, and maybe even some modestly useful services.  So what?  To say people cannot survive without endless borrowing is a lie... and a banksters and politician created scam of astronomical magnitude.

DEFAULT.  DEFAULT.  DEFAULT.

And don't borrow again.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 01:01 | 1286094 silver140
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The Greek people would decide to default, in a heartbeat, if it were put up for a vote.  The Irish as well, the Portuguese too. It took the Argentinians months of riots to throw out 3 or 4 governments before they got the one that did what they wanted, which was kick the IMF out and default. Hell, the U.S. citizens would not have given any bailouts to the banksters, in fact they'd be in jail along with Paulson, Summers, and all the power pimps we could round up, as well as Bush, Cheney, and now Obummer bin lyin, if it was up to us.  But control is now in the hands of the corporate fascists, and they know it.  GS, JPM, etc contol the "market", our food supply, our energy supply, the wars we fight, etc and the US govern and the IMF, and Europe.  They're probably well established in China and the rest of the world.  There's no patriotism to any one country or region anymore.  It's a pandemic of parasitoid, disaster capitalism with no end in sight until the host, us and the entire biosphere, is turned into fiat currency.

Tue, 05/17/2011 - 18:19 | 1284956 Jovil
Tue, 05/17/2011 - 20:19 | 1285327 topcallingtroll
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DEFAULT is so inevitable that even the greek government admits it.

Soft restructuring? What an inventive use of language.

Wed, 05/18/2011 - 01:25 | 1286135 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

If CDS' were actually utilized by the right people prudently then all the pain borne by pensioners and Greek citizens would be painless or painfree.  As a matter of fact if these insurance products were held by the right people then you could actually break up the euro and allow for individual economies to restructure and revive without spreading pain to the taxpayers.

Only if...

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