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"Greece is willing to discuss the prospect of a "soft restructuring" of its debt if needed, its deputy foreign minister said on Tuesday"
Sounds like it's going to take stiff proposition to penetrate Greek opposition...
Sorry to go OT on your post, CM, and I won't do it often, but:
Robotrader's mom is now destitute, and living off donations from kind hearted souls, as Robo 'Nails' Trader had her put her life savings in Coldwater Creek, and she's blown her savings up (the other MoMo failures of late only exacerbated her pain - RoboTrader was having her invest in Leo's Chinese Solars and even some Chinese Fraud/Sham stocks):
If you can spare some money in these hard times, send some money for food her way, because RoboTrader has fled, and there's rumor that some Russians and Triads are looking for him.
Sharing Information Corrupts Wisdom of Crowds
This explains the troll curve.
Why there is an optimal number of speculators needed to liquify a market and improve efficient price discovery.
Too many speculators with too much shared information cancels out the crowd effect.
The banks may have smartened up about CDS exposure (or maybe not) but there is a lot of dumb money around the world. Probably a lot of hedge funds levered to the hilt that would blow up. Where did they borrow from? The banks.
There is no way Greece gets a good deal out of all of this.
Maybe they should just default and get it over with. Sooner or later they will. Their creditors should suffer a good haircut.
From what I can tell they have had the poor side of the deal since the beginning, which must be why the people of Greece have been rioting in spurts for over a year now. They sold their islands (and to whom I am still not sure), China "bailed" them out, they have had two debt restructurings (right? last year and this...) and so, DoChen, I agree with you, it ends in default.
The in-fighting is on for the juicy bits of collateral (energy companies, pension funds, the next 50 years of olive oil production ) - they used to call it asset stripping.
Yep, what the IMF and World Bank (US/Euro/corporate fascists)have been doing to the "third world" for decades. Now it's our turn, asset stripping here and in Europe. There's no limit now. They've got the power and it's being used.
Bust a deal, face the wheel.
That would be much more exciting!
Where in all this is there even a mention of changing the culture - the idea that the government should and will take care of the average Greek? Is anyone saying that the Greek functions like pensions, services, and so forth should be privatised?
Until you cure the cause, pouring water on a gasoline fire will only spread the flames - gotta find the shutoff valve and make people responsible for themselves again, or it will just flare up again, bigger, later.
Forget about Greece, Greece along with Ireland and Portugal are toast and this has probably been priced in fully already. What about Spain though? Is that fixed? Everyone seems very quiet about that one.
The most appropriate analogy for Greek debt is a the micreant progeny of the shotgun wedding of a circle jerk and a clusterfuck! Spain is indeed the big question mark out there....for it is at once too big to fail and also too big to save and has some bizzare accounting systems that obfuscate and both aid and abet the lies of the bankers and administration. http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/6e89358c-7fee-11e0-b018-00144feabdc0.html?ftcamp=rss#axzz1MZgb377v
Linking to FT should be illegal.
Just a repost of a link Tyler himself posted this morning....sorry to offend your delicate sensibilities
22:06 17May11 RTRS-LIBYA SAYS IT HIT A NATO WARSHIP DURING AN EXCHANGE OF FIRE AFTER THE VESSEL SHELLED MISRATA
Part of me is cheering Gadaffi...damn you Hegel! Will the people not sit together and realize that the money spent on war would solve...the debt...the problems..everything! These two sides, they are of the same coin. Yet, if you choose not to use the coin. Anyway, until we all reach nirvana, buy silver.
Hey little sister SHOTGUN!
THE SOLUTION TO GREECE´S PROBLEM IS SO EASY!
they just need to call up a few banks, GS probably their favourite, and start selling CDS on themselves like crazy. This will give them cash to repay debt and cover the deficit, the good thing is, the more CDS protection they sell the lower their borrowing costs go, so they should sell all they can asap to get the current high bps, and then add as things move down until they reach 0! Following this strategy things cant go wrong! :)
Don't make deals with the devil, Greece. Remember GS gave you the money needed to join the EU. That is of course pure coincidence
the greek pensions will be hurt, meanwhile the fed has their grubby little hands on the other nations pensions. see, you don't need austerity people!
The loser Greeks jumped the shark 3,000 years ago. They had their day, now they are just debt addicted socialist moron libtards - witness Leo K.
You would think they would have learned something from Odysseus, but no, they could not resist the siren song of socialism, something for nothing...
and for every junk this post gets, three or four of you tards are agreeing with me.
Bring back the Drachma!!!
Initial valuation of the "New Drachma"? 1,500 Euros to one ND= here's 50 million ND debt-holders! Problemo solvedo!
Leo should go home and help his people.
These discussions get so boring. Yeah, I know, it isn't ZH, it is the predators-that-be who won't let the BS end. Default is the only viable answer.
In fact, default is the appropriate answer in every way. It teaches morons who lend to governments that doing so is stupid. It hopefully teaches morons who might lend to governments in the future that doing so is stupid. It also reduces (or hopefully eliminates) the availability of further addictive and self-destructive loans AKA debt, and helps the population get used to living a more honest (and much less stressful) life.
DEFAULT is the answer. To greeks and everyone else: STOP letting the predators steal you blind. DEFAULT, and add to the constitution a prohibition against government debt. Or better yet, stop believing that government exists, or has any right to a penny from your pocket, or to obligate you and your descendants in any way.
Agree. Default and show the middle finger
We got free from the Turkish chaps 190 years ago.
162 of them were democratic years.
172 goverments have been running the ship since day 1.
1.06 per year.
$35,471.72 is the debt per head while in our neighbours in Italy it's 40k+and nobody gives a rats ass about them..
they can't let Greece default..
They can't STOP them from defaulting.
Iceland said no. Twice. So should Greece.
Sure, they will definitely need to cut back on useless and counterproductive government employees and programs, and maybe even some modestly useful services. So what? To say people cannot survive without endless borrowing is a lie... and a banksters and politician created scam of astronomical magnitude.
DEFAULT. DEFAULT. DEFAULT.
And don't borrow again.
The Greek people would decide to default, in a heartbeat, if it were put up for a vote. The Irish as well, the Portuguese too. It took the Argentinians months of riots to throw out 3 or 4 governments before they got the one that did what they wanted, which was kick the IMF out and default. Hell, the U.S. citizens would not have given any bailouts to the banksters, in fact they'd be in jail along with Paulson, Summers, and all the power pimps we could round up, as well as Bush, Cheney, and now Obummer bin lyin, if it was up to us. But control is now in the hands of the corporate fascists, and they know it. GS, JPM, etc contol the "market", our food supply, our energy supply, the wars we fight, etc and the US govern and the IMF, and Europe. They're probably well established in China and the rest of the world. There's no patriotism to any one country or region anymore. It's a pandemic of parasitoid, disaster capitalism with no end in sight until the host, us and the entire biosphere, is turned into fiat currency.
The case of the mystery gold
DEFAULT is so inevitable that even the greek government admits it.
Soft restructuring? What an inventive use of language.
If CDS' were actually utilized by the right people prudently then all the pain borne by pensioners and Greek citizens would be painless or painfree. As a matter of fact if these insurance products were held by the right people then you could actually break up the euro and allow for individual economies to restructure and revive without spreading pain to the taxpayers.
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