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Guest Post: I Smell A Vat
By David Galland Via Casey's Daily Dispatch
I Smell A Vat
In past editions of this service, I’ve advocated tuning your personal radar to pick up early indications that the government is taking an active interest in gold. Especially when that interest revolves around terrorists or tax evaders, two popular bogeymen these days.
It was, therefore, with more than a little concern that I read an article in our Ed Steer’s Gold & Silver Daily service yesterday on an item slid into the legislation authorizing the government takeover of health care. Here’s a snip from Ed’s letter…
The good folks over at numismaster.com report that, starting on January 1st in 2012, U.S. federal law will require coin and bullion dealers to report to the Internal Revenue Service all gold and silver coin purchases and sales greater than $600. The report is written by David L. Ganz and is headlined "$600 Sale? Get Ready for Tax Form." Apparently this little jewel was an add-on to the national health care legislation. But there’s a new bill being introduced by Rep. Dan Lungren (H.R. 5141), which has gathered over 80 members of Congress as co-sponsors to repeal this section... so we'll see how that turns out. The link to the story is here.
According to the author of the article Ed references, the rationale for the new regulations is that the taxocrats believe that people conducting off-book trading in precious metals are chiseling them out of $17 billion in lost revenue annually. The net result, however, will be that the government will soon know who’s got the gold.
Can’t a person just keep their gold purchases under $600? With the price of gold heading higher, that will increasingly require buying smaller-denomination bullion coins – which typically carry a higher premium. More importantly, a large body of case law gives the government license to charge people for “structuring” – i.e., taking active measures to get around a particular law. Thus, two $500 gold purchases could be construed as active evasion and carry additional penalties.
Looking to get a better handle on this matter, our own Jeff Clark of Casey’s Gold & Resource Report – a must-have at just $39 a year – contacted Andy Schectman of the coin dealer Miles Franklin to get his quick take. Here it is…
It would be a logistical nightmare. But it’s not just gold – it’s any and all companies that would be required to file a 1099 for anything over $600. A lot of people feel it won’t pass, and I have a hard time believing it will, too. It would really kill the small businessman; they’d spend their entire time filling out paperwork for the government. Hopefully it won’t pass. Think about this: it might be a precursor to a VAT tax, so they can figure out where the money is coming from. Everyone should contact their congressman and encourage them to not let this pass.
Continuing our mini-investigation, we reached out to another well-informed source who confirmed that the new regs would apply to all businesses. For example, under the new regime a plumber who does work for you in excess of the $600 threshold would be required to file a 1099 report.
That being the case, I have to think that Andy’s got it right – the implications of this move transcend just the precious metals. Rather, this is a deliberate step in the direction of implementing a VAT – once the government has everyone reporting essentially every transaction, taking the next step is a snap.
So what are the odds that the movement to have this clause repealed will succeed? In my opinion, given the sheer quantity of new regulations embedded in the new health care legislation, most of which is equally wrong-headed, the administration and its allies are certain to take a hard line about making changes. Simply, once the hard shell of the legislation is cracked open, great swaths of the thing will be subject to being picked apart.
I ran that opinion by Don Grove, our man in Washington, and he responded by sending across the following…
David,
This from Tom Coburn this morning:
Jun 08 2010
Drs. Coburn and Barrasso: Congress Should Repeal and Replace Health Law That Will Harm Seniors and Our Future
(WASHINGTON, D.C.) - Physicians and U.S. Senators Tom Coburn (R-OK) and John Barrasso (R-WY) released the following statement today regarding how the new health law will affect Americans.
“The American people have rejected this plan because they see it not as a series of milestones, but millstones that will trap seniors and future generations in failing programs before drowning them in debt. No amount of rebate checks will plug Medicare's $38 trillion funding gap. In fact, this new law will undermine Medicare even further by cutting benefits rather than waste, increasing premiums, reducing access and rationing care," Dr. Coburn said.
"If the President really wants to cut waste, fraud and abuse in America's healthcare system, he'll cancel his misleading multi-million-dollar PR campaign about the new health care law. Instead of selling a bad law, the White House should focus on actually fixing America's health care system. The fact is that the President's new law cuts Medicare, raises costs, kills jobs and burdens seniors' grandchildren with more debt. We need to repeal this new law and replace it with health care reform that helps all Americans," Dr. Barrasso said.
I will admit that I did not search the massive tome that is Obamacare for “gold,” “silver,” or “coins,” and even if I had, I would have missed this provision that impacts such transactions. When the government is this desperate to squeeze money out of citizens, it is already well into diminishing returns. This level of busy work does not come without a crippling price. People will rebel and simply not comply. They can’t. It’s impractical. Many will probably not even know they are not complying.
Congressman Steve King (R-IA) introduced legislation, a discharge petition, that will completely repeal Obamacare. The brief text of his bill H.R. 4972 “To repeal the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act” follows:
Effective as of the enactment of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, such Act is repealed, and the provisions of law amended or repealed by such Act are restored or revived as if such Act had not been enacted.
King said:
“Today the work begins to repeal Obamacare and restore the principles of liberty that made America a great nation. The American people must take their country back by methodically eliminating every vestige of creeping socialism, including socialized medicine. The Pelosi Democrats will pay a price for their overreach. This fight is far from over.”
H.R.4972 has 95 cosponsors. Rep. Tom Price (R-GA) is circulating a request that members support King’s discharge petition. 74 representatives have signed Price’s request. If a majority sign, Pelosi will have to bring King’s bill to the floor for an up-or-down vote. 218 signatures are needed to force a vote on the House floor.
20 senators have cosponsored Senator Jim DeMint’s S. 3152, the Obamacare repeal bill in the Senate. DeMint’s bill is even shorter: “The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, and the amendments made by that Act, are repealed.” DeMint said: “I will continue to work to gain support for full repeal in the Senate, so that together with the efforts in the House, we can save health care freedom for all Americans. ObamaCare is built on a flawed foundation of government-run healthcare and it must be overturned in its entirety.”
These efforts for complete repeal would of course encompass Section 9006 of Obamacare imposing the $600 1099s. Meanwhile, Dan Lungren’s (R-CA) HR 5141, the Small Business Paperwork Mandate Elimination Act, has 91 cosponsors and attacks the problem with surgical precision. His bill reads: “Section 9006 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, and the amendments made thereby, are hereby repealed; and the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 shall be applied as if such section, and amendments, had never been enacted.”
I would not write off repeal. As Nancy Pelosi said, “We have to pass the [health care] bill so that you can find out what is in it.” Now it’s passed, and we’re finding out more by the day and don’t like what we find.
Regards, Don
Clearly, the battle is joined – but, unlike Don, I hold out little hope that any of these attempts at repeal will succeed. The Democrats know this is their Maginot Line. If Obamacare unwinds, then their already dismal chances of holding power after the November elections become dark, indeed. Further, the latest polls show that the health care legislation is gaining popularity and is now approaching a majority. As time passes and November approaches, I think the legislation’s popularity will grow as more and more people decide they want something approaching “free” medical, a want that becomes ever more acute as the economy struggles and unemployment continues to rise.
In other words, deep political trenches are being dug on the battlefield of nationalized health care – and the Democrats hold the political high ground, making a retreat unlikely.
Back on the specific issue of setting the stage for a VAT, even politicians on the Republicrat side of the aisle are talking about the need for a national sales tax. Get ready for it, it’s coming.
Meanwhile, if you are a physical-gold investor in these United States and would like to prepare… a few thoughts:
- Use dips in the gold price to top off your portfolio before the 2012 implementation date.
- Document your purchases so that, should you ever be dragged in to explain the source of funds you used to buy your gold in a subsequent sale, once the regulation is in place, you have a ready answer.
- Consider opening a safe deposit box at a reputable Canadian bank, then make occasional gold buying/storage trips up north. I suspect that the availability of Canadian safe deposit boxes will become scarce well before 2012 rolls around.
Since we’re on the topic of gold, I wanted to share an interesting snippet from an interview with James Rickards that ran on the Institutional Risk Analytics site.
Russia, Gold & Spies
For those of you not familiar with James Rickards, he is a financial consultant who has received a lot of coverage lately for his view that the Russians will be the first sovereign state to pull the trigger on a gold-backed currency. In this interview with Institutional Risk Analytics, he adds some detail on that contention.
Rickards: … To give you a sense of how much interest there is in financial matters in the national security community, I recently headed a panel at a program sponsored by the Johns Hopkins Applied Physics Laboratory, one of the premier private research centers in the U.S. for developing everything from new weapons to nuclear strategy. The topic of my paper was a hypothetical press release issued by the Russian central bank announcing the creation of a new, gold-back currency. In the hypothetical, the Russians also announce that exports of energy and other natural resources will have to be made in this new "gold ruble." The Russians would become a market maker in gold and effectively control the marginal price of gold transactions. This is basically a plan for taking down the dollar.
The IRA: It is an entirely plausible scenario. The Russians could establish a "gold" price for oil and then the paper currencies would trade at a discount. Thanks to the lack of leadership in Washington by either party, the U.S. is quite vulnerable to the creation of a gold-backed or commodity-backed currency. This August is the 40th anniversary of the decision in 1971 by President Richard Nixon, aided and abetted by a Treasury official named Paul Volcker and Fed Chairman Arthur Burns, to break the link between the dollar and gold. The excuse then was justified based on the short-term need for growth and inflation. As a senior Fed official told us, look at the period since the 1990s. Count how many quarters we have not had either fiscal stimulus or accommodative interest rates by the Fed to maintain the illusion of growth.
Rickards: Precisely. But what is interesting is that a couple of days ago, we saw the arrest of this seemingly hapless Russian spy gang. These people were a relic of the Cold War, running around Montclair, New Jersey, and meeting in New York coffee shops. But the one little tidbit that came out of the complaint filed by prosecutors is that the one subject that got a lot of reaction from Moscow was gold. Whatever these people were collecting for the Russians, the information about gold was of great interest. Often times in intelligence you care less about what the field agents are collecting than who is asking and why they are asking. The paper I did is getting written up all over the web. But the fact that the information on gold touched a nerve in Moscow confirms my view about their intentions toward the dollar.
You can read the entire interview here.
And Now for Some Good News!
There is a global horse race going on right now. Among the leading contenders are:
Totalitarianism, Freedom, Regulation, Taxation, Individualism, Collectivism, Militarism, and Revolution.
While the betting is now solidly against Freedom and Individualism, it is too early to rule them out of the race. Not with a growing number of people starting to understand the challenges faced by horses weighed down by the deadweight of the governments on their back.
In what is a rare and hopeful sign out of the UK – a nation that is notable for a societal script that has, until just recently, run parallel to that of George Orwell’s 1984 – the new government has launched a well-conceived web site that invites the public to nominate old laws that should be struck from the book.
Here’s an excerpt on the topic from an article that ran on the Metro.co.uk site…
Parliament invites public to nominate 'old laws' they wish to abolish
The public is being invited to nominate laws they want to abolish in what deputy prime minister Nick Clegg called a move away from ‘the old way of doing things’.
At the Your Freedom website people can propose ways to get rid of pointless regulation and red tape.
Mr Clegg said: ‘We are turning things on their head. The traditional way of doing things is that government tells people what to do. We are saying, ‘‘Tell us what you don’t want us to do’’.’Letting dormant laws accumulate on the statute book sent out the ‘wrong signal’ and there was plenty of ‘old stuff’ that should be dropped, he told BBC Breakfast. The last government had gone too far in invading people’s privacy, he added.
‘Did that make us safer? No, it didn’t necessarily make us safer, so we’ve got to get the balance right.’ From today any minister who proposes a new regulation will also have to propose an existing law to be scrapped in a ‘one in, one out rule’.
The website is at: www.hmg.gov.uk/yourfreedom
Be sure to check out the site. If the Brits keep this up – they have also recently announced some pretty decent cuts to government spending – and if the people don’t chase the new team out of office or take to the streets in mass protests, then the British pound, and stocks, might make a good contrarian bet. Given the poor state that government’s finances are now in, I’m not sure I’d make that bet anytime real soon – but it’s worth watching.
And on that positive note, I’ll say farewell for the day… thanking you for reading, and for passing along this service to others, if you think it would be of benefit to them.
h/t Adam
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This is a direct attempt to go after the people opting out of the FRN system.They want their cut...and they are taking steps to ensure they get it.Very ominous that it has gotten this bad...very ominous.
The response will be the same as Greece and Italy. Major parts of the economy will move underground as corruption at all levels reigns.
Frankly, I think this will be repealed. It's too hideous.
In a word, idiotic.
Gold is fungible.
It will simply flee the country and be sold in a country that treats it better (fleeing by smuggling and/or as jewelry), or be used as, um... Money.
Europe has already figured this out, they have low or no tax on gold.
Capital flight, anyone?
cistercian,
i believe it's more 'Rand-ian' - with rules like that, eventually everyone becomes a criminal...
then the government can merely pick the enemies they want to jail.
(1 issue, 1 vote - spread the word)
Yep. They corner you, and then make you an offer you can't refuse.
Many decent rifles are < $600...
At least now the Treasury Department will have the address where the Goldbug has his/her stash of the soft-and-shiney.
Knock, knock. Who's there? The FRN stabilization team. We'd like to talk to you about the 1099-B form that was filed on your behalf for that 1/2 oz. of gold that you purchased.
Oh, let me get my little friend Mr. Remington...Okay. You said you have a question?
And if you read the case the US has against Arizona, it reads exactly as you describe.
The Feds want to pick and choose how to apply the immigration laws for the achievement of their various objectives, not to uphold the law.
These are dangerous times.
I've read the case, and I agree with your assessment. The arguments are entirely about the feds' claim of being in charge.
Right. As under FDR, noncompliance will be widespread.
Sickening.
Get lost troll.
Just because you're stupid enough to live in the US doesn't mean that everyone here is.
What about the new 1 percent transaction tax that is floating in Congress? The tax would be assessed on everything, even for ATM withdrawals.
The problem with the VAT/transaction tax is it is a quick jump from 1% to 30%.
that and who gets to decide what the rate should be.
Exactly! They could even say 0.1% as it is so small as to seem harmless to sheeple, yet once it passes the ability then raise it is virtually endless.
Yup. Baby steps. Frog in boiling water analogy.
Another reason to try to get out of the Evil Empire before 2012. Remember Uncle Sugar is watching you, and he wants your money, he's got loan sharks to pay.
Lex malla, lex nulla
"Clickety-clack, rack the slide back."
looks like we're condemned to repeat the history we were never taught to begin with.
http://www.theoccidentalobserver.net/articles/MacDonald-Solzhenitsyn-200...
A puzzle piece that has been intentionally missing...
This $600 stuff's been all over Kitco lately....
Does this not apply strictly between two businesses? How would this affect the majority of gold hoarders?
A gold backed currency....? Didn't some fellows try that with the Saudies and Au's little sister way back when...? Hmmm...
"Rather, this is a deliberate step in the direction of implementing a VAT – once the government has everyone reporting essentially every transaction, taking the next step is a snap."
Sounds a lot MORE like Diocletian's caput system:
Emperor Diocletian's Reforms
By the end of the third century, Rome had clearly reached a crisis. The state could no longer obtain sufficient resources even through compulsion and was forced to rely ever more heavily on debasement of the currency to raise revenue. By the reign of Claudius II Gothicus (268-270 A.D.) the silver content of the denarius was down to just .02 percent (Michell 1947: 2). As a consequence, prices skyrocketed. A measure of Egyptian wheat, for example, which sold for seven to eight drachmaes in the second century now cost 120,000 drachmaes. This suggests an inflation of 15,000 percent during the third century (Rostovtzeff 1957: 471).
Finally, the very survival of the state was at stake. At this point, the Emperor Diocletian (284-305 A.D.) took action. He attempted to stop the inflation with a far-reaching system of price controls on all services and commodities. [10] These controls were justified by Diocletian's belief that the inflation was due mainly to speculation and hoarding, rather than debasement of the currency. As he stated in the preamble to his edict of 301 A.D.:
Despite the fact that the death penalty applied to violations of the price controls, they were a total failure. Lactantius (1984: 11), a contemporary of Diocletian's, tells us that much blood was shed over "small and cheap items" and that goods disappeared from sale. Yet, "the rise in price got much worse." Finally, "after many had met their deaths, sheer necessity led to the repeal of the law."
Diocletian's other reforms, however, were more successful. The cornerstone of Diocletian's economic policy was to turn the existing ad hoc policy of requisitions to obtain resources for the state into a regular system. [11] Since money was worthless, the new system was based on collecting taxes in the form of actual goods and services, but regularized into a budget so that the state knew exactly what it needed and taxpayers knew exactly how much they had to pay.
Careful calculations were made of precisely how much grain, cloth, oil, weapons or other goods were necessary to sustain a single Roman soldier. Thus, working backwards from the state's military requirements, a calculation was made for the total amount of goods and services the state would need in a given year. On the other side of the coin, it was also necessary to calculate what the taxpayers were able to provide in terms of the necessary goods and services. This required a massive census, not only of people but of resources, especially cultivated land. Land was graded according to its productivity. As Lactantius (1984: 37) put it, "Fields were measured out clod by clod, vines and trees were counted, every kind of animal was registered, and note taken of every member of the population."
Taxable capacity was measured in terms of the caput, which stood for a single man, his family, his land and what they could produce. [12] The state's needs were measured in terms of the annona, which represented the cost of maintaining a single soldier for a year. With these two measures calculated in precision, it was now possible to have a real budget and tax system based entirely on actual goods and services. Assessments were made and resources collected, transported and stored for state use.
Although an army on the move might still requisition goods or services when needed, the overall result of Diocletian's reform was generally positive. Taxpayers at least knew in advance what they were required to pay, rather than suffer from ad hoc confiscations. Also, the tax burden was spread more widely, instead of simply falling on the unlucky, thus lowering the burden for many Romans. At the same time, with the improved availability of resources, the state could now better plan and conduct its military operations.
In order to maintain this system where people were tied to their land, home, jobs, and places of employment, Diocletian transformed the previous ad hoc practice. Workers were organized into guilds and businesses into corporations called collegia. Both became de facto organs of the state, controlling and directing their members to work and produce for the state.
http://www.cato.org/pubs/journal/cjv14n2-7.html
Cheers,
BTW, when a beer costs $600, there might be some problems...in the beer halls...
Some things never change, do they!
Don't dis Diocletian. He added an extra 100 years to the life of the empire. His beloved daughter was killed in one of the Christian purges he ordered. He put the good of the state above his own self interst. A rare commodity these days.
He also paved the road to feudalism. One drought or crop blight forced people into bankruptcy to the State just like the Irish were dealt during the Great Famine by English landowners.
People began selling themselves into serfdom, becoming renters to increasingly larger landowners simply because they could not pay the production tax. These became the medieval duchies.
I think the exact figure was 171 years to the lifetime of the Western Roman Empire. The formal dissolution was 476 AD.
Diocletian was a crafty politician and his division of power was almost political genius. He restored some sense of order, but this only seemed to prolong the suffering. He paved the way for near a thousand years of religious persecution and stagnation. One could argue that if he had been a tremendous failure, everyone would have been better off. The Romans would have been forced to build a new society from scratch, and we might have avoided the Middle Ages.
"We can assuredly provide entitlement payments in any amount at any time needed, but we cannot guarantee their purchasing power." ~ A. Greenspan
You've got to be shitting me. Is this an actual fucking quote?
Apparently yes...I found it but it reads:
Former Federal Reserve Chairman, Greenspan: 'We can guarantee cash benefits as far out and at whatever size you like, but we cannot guarantee their purchasing power' - February 15, 2005
Kind of puts the lie to everything the working classes are expecting, doesn't it?? WTF they haven't ALL bought gold is BEYOND ME...
I can't even believe it. Especially after his treatise on gold earlier in his career. In the 60's I think. I never thought he would be that out in the open. This makes me ill.
Not to defend Greenspan, but IIRC he made this comment in response to a Congressidiot who had asked Greenspan why the government just couldn't keep providing entitlement benefits at will in perpetuity. Greenspan answered that it could but that this would debase the currency in which the entitlements were denominated.
Confiscate the Gold, institute opening of Safety Deposit boxes only with IRS agent presence. Bam, allow the selling of gold again, with the Gold Tax!
All happend before circa 1933.
On March 4, 1933, before the Inaugural balls of the evening, FDR declared a bank holiday for March 5 - 7, 1933, effectively closing all banks within the United Sates, it's protectorates and territories.
In the early morning hours of March 8, 1933, Federal Agents of the Internal Revenue Service descending in hoards on every banks in the United States, seizing safe deposit box owner records and bank keys, ordering under Federal Warrant and penalty of Federal prosecution, that no bank owner, manager or other employee dispense any gold or silver coinage or open any bank safety deposit box unless in the presence of an IRS agent from that time forward. Then the agents entered the bank vaults and sealed every safe deposit box in the vaults of EVERY bank in America.
March 9, 1933, President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed Executive Order 6102 that outlawed the private ownership of gold and silver from that date forward.
By Executive Order Of The President of The United States, March 9, 1933
By virtue of the authority vested in me by Section 5 (b) of the Act of October 6, 1917, as amended by Section 2 of the Act of March 9, 1933, in which Congress declared that a serious emergency exists, I as President, do declare that the national emergency still exists; that the continued private hoarding of gold and silver by subjects of the United States poses a grave threat to the peace, equal justice, and well-being of the United States; and that appropriate measures must be taken immediately to protect the interests of our people.
Therefore, pursuant to the above authority, I hereby proclaim that such gold and silver holdings are prohibited, and that all such coin, bullion or other possessions of gold and silver be tendered within fourteen days to agents of the Government of the United States for compensation at the official price, in the legal tender of the Government.
All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed, pending action in the due course of the law. All sales or purchases or movements of such gold and silver within the borders of the United States and its territories and all foreign exchange transactions or movements of such metals across the border are hereby prohibited.
Your possession of these proscribed metals and/or your maintenance of a safe deposit box to store them is known by the government from bank and insurance records. Therefore, be advised that your vault box must remain sealed, and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the Internal Revenue Service.
ah, but that could never happen today - not in this political climate.
...
Because the US was on the gold standard and needed more gold to print more money during the depression.
Is past prelude?
WAS. Not after that.
The US coinage was certainly allowed to be coined of gold and silver, but after March 1933, gold was removed from private hands.
At that point the banking system was dissolved, all banks were re-incorporated as clients of the Fed, and the FRN was issued.
Pure Fiat has reigned ever since.
Johnson removed silver from coins in 1964 and Nixon removed the gold redemption in 1971 so the French could no longer plunder American reserves. Since 1971, it's been pure fiat...which has historically had a maximum 40 year life span (1971 to 2010 is 39 years).
When we return to the Gold/Silver standard (and we will), politicians will no longer be able to make endless money promises and true civil liberties will return. You guys think we live freely now? HA! Wait till you experience real freedom, with no entitlement checks, no governments dictating that you have to buy health care, and when you go bankrupt, you really are bankrupt and can't get a bailout. And things like Child Support mandates, Social workers crawling inside your family - poof, part of history.
Wife beating, child abusing, rape, back alley abortions, prostitution, racketeering, drugs use out in the open... If it gets bad enough the thugs will form gangs and just take shit... and unlike the government who pretends to honor civil liberties, you know the thugs wont.
Is this what libertopia looks like?
Sounds like California.
pan,
i've gotten to the point where i believe this would be an improvement, given with the thugs, you actually know what they want, and what they stand for.
that's all i ask.
i have no idea what the government stands for, other than themselves, and that doesn't feel like *us* (of the people) anymore.
Hmm, let's take these one by one, though I doubt you will listen, as you apparently have an ingrained hatred of libertarians and freedom itself.
1. Wife beating--this is assault, and police protection still applies to assault, theft, fraud, murder, trespassing, and similar crimes. Libertarianism won't fix this problem, but it certainly won't make it any worse.
2. Child abuse--this is an ill defined term. Some people think parents should go to prison for spanking their child. Of course, we've had child abuse forever, and will continue to under any system. Assault will be treated like assault, rape will be treated as rape, and the rights of the parents will be upheld.
3. Rape--surprise! Rape is a vicious assault, and will still be prosecuted in a libertarian society. Rape occurs more often under police state conditions than in free societies, but nothing can eliminate it, and any attempt to will leave you with no security AND no liberty.
4. Back ally abortions--these are a result of the criminalization of abortion. Libertarians are generally evenly divided on this issue, but higher thought tends to trend toward the ownership of ones body and all its contents. Abortions are thus not performed in back alleys, but in nice, clean clinics. Further, different localities are likely to have different laws on this, so there will always be a choice. Even more convincing is the economic argument, that many children are aborted because the parents can't afford the baby--and economic conditions are guaranteed to rapidly improve under a libertarian system.
5. Prostitution--what, you got a problem with prostitution? Does a woman (or man, for that matter) not have a right to sell any services that he or she may wish to provide, between two consenting adults? Pimps which use violence against prostitutes would disappear, as much better working conditions would be available without pimps. Street prostitutes would probably be non-existent.
6. Racketeering--violence is not permitted, again. I don't know where you get this idea that libertarians want some sort of Mad Max society. These types of crimes only become problems when the things that people want and want to do become illegal under some overbearing government.
7. Drug use out in the open--is this any worse than smoking in public? Under a libertarian system, drug quality improves, and crappy street drugs like crack and meth disappear, as high quality, low side effect drugs like mushrooms, marijuana, cocaine, and heroin become cheaper. You do realize they used to sell ALL of that over the counter, right? Coca Cola used to have cocaine in it for Christ's sake.
You think an armed, liberty loving society is going to a, create the type of economic conditions that cause street gangs to form in the first place, and b, that should they arise somehow, that they wouldn't be shown the door by the heavily armed populace?
Yeah, I think you have confused our society with a libertarian one. Every single thing that you pointed out as a problem is either endemic in human society, or was in fact CREATED by big government, and can not exist without it.
Great comment!
Wife beating, child abusing, rape, back alley abortions, prostitution, racketeering, drugs use out in the open... If it gets bad enough the thugs will form gangs and just take shit... and unlike the government who pretends to honor civil liberties, you know the thugs wont.
Is this what libertopia looks like?
Like the government prevents any of that - not.
Real men and women who live in freedom don't need the government and are in fact self-governing, law-abiding citizens.
http://home.pacbell.net/tfdf/fiatpm.html
must read. excellent historical context.
but be prepared, once you read this, you will immediately want to convert all of your paper frn$ to solid assets...and rightly so.
Exactly! Who's to say that such an "All your golds belong to us" move can't be pulled again, since we already have a precedent. That's the problem when trying to outplay the Goverment, you're trying to outplay the GameMaster, who has the power to install, change and repeal rules of the game according to his current whims and considerations.
People who advocate investing in PM live in Fantasimerica, where the PTB are the people's best friends. Now people who advise to also invest in lead and lead-propellant equipment - they might be closer to the truth.
So...Don't fight City Hall? Because the government always wins and the little people always lose? Just colour in the lines and do as you're told? 'Go where you're bid little sheep'?
Government makes the rules for guns, too, BTW...
In a nutshell, no. You're reading too much between the lines by implying something I didn't even mean to say. I'll try to lay it down nice and simple for you so that you won't be confused by too much new words.
Here goes, get ready.
Investing in PM per se does not guarantee your well-being in the post-clusterfuck USA. That is, if you do it you have to think about means to protect whatever wealth you have, so investment in those is sound. Then again that's not the only solution to saving your life/health/family in these time of trouble.
Have a good day and try to lay off the caffeine.
LOL! Attempting to instruct in English usage, matey, isn't wise in someone for whom it is obviously a second language. ;-)
To your point, such as it is. It is good to hear that you believe that no investment 'guarantees' our well-being in post-, pre-, or plain vanilla 'clusterfuck USA', so we should try to protect our investments. Can't argue with that newsflash.
You have a good day too, laddikins. Kiss kiss!
"guarantee" and "safe" our words that should be remove from the English language. They do not exist on this plane.
Gold and silver may or could be used for trade but you are correct because as the credit system collapses you will get less and less produced. There will be millions of people in India starving to death even though they have gold. 99.99% of the gold ever mined still exists in circulation, same as the last time the credit system collapsed, didn't stop the destruction of Europe and major parts of Asia. This time it will be virtually the whole world effected.
Europe was the largest Gold hold per capita in the world last time, UK system peaked, collapsed and then the liquidation. It will be basically the same thing this time just on a much larger scale.
People who advocate investing in PM live in Fantasimerica
Moonrara, why don't you go screw yourself?
these trolls multiply like rabbits. Is it all Jon Nadler with 20 different names?
Oh sure...they won't seize your guns. They've NEVER done that sort of thing.
And when you threaten them with one, they will just meekly go away. They won't come back with tanks or an Apache.
I laugh at people who hoard guns and stockpile ammunition. I have carried a thousand or so rounds of pistol ammo back and forth from here or there. There is ZERO percent chance I could really go anywhere with even that small amount of lead. It's too heavy. A stockpile of ammunition is completely immobile. At 60mg per grain, each 230gr .45 slug alone weighs 14g, no powder, no brass. Try scaling that up and lugging it around, plus the rifle ammo, plus the rifle and pistol.
The dollar equivalent of gold is 1 oz.
I have read in several places that the story of actually cracking open safety deposit boxes is a hoax.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102
hell they just grab it with both hands when you aren't even there.
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4832471&page=1
One of the building "thousand cuts".
A little blatantly black economy is a good counter-balance to a white-washed but equally black, white economy, if you get my drift.
Wierd feelings!
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
The stench of the shit coming from D.C. will wake even the most cozy of the sleeping sheep. The angry mob will sooner or later ask questions of their candidates in such a way that it will be clear the tail wagging dog days are over.
Bend over & take a deep breath. Try to relax. This will only hurt a bit. Pretty soon, you wont notice it.
Life down on "the tax farm" just got a little more complicated!
The info I got from my accountant said:
Business owners will be required to submit a Form 1099 for every payment made via check or credit card to vendors for services, inventory or property over $600 annually. As part of the new expanded Form 1099 reporting requirement, bizzes will be required to obtain accurate TINs from all qualifying vendors. Should the biz owner be unable to do so, they would be required to withhold a portion of that vendor payment and send it to the IRS.
I also remember reading very recently, that all bank transactions $500 or more will be tracked now.
My take is this is a way to catch tax revenue that is flying under the radar and is not getting collected by the IRS from contractors or people doing a "cash" biz. I find it interesting that if you pay cash, pay in silver/gold or barter, you can sidestep this new rule. I am thinking cuz they can track check or credit card payments easily, not so easy with anything else?
NASE found that the self-employed and micro-bizzes (those with fewer than 10 employees) are overwhelmingly expecting this new reulatory burden to greatly or somewhat increase the amount they spend on tax prep.
So, you may have to start breaking up "purchases" or "deposits" into increments smaller than $500 to avoid having the eye of Sauron focusing on oneself.
"So, you may have to start breaking up "purchases" or "deposits" into increments smaller than $500 to avoid having the eye of Sauron focusing on oneself."
Someone wrote, I'll try to find it, that the forms can be done in paper. I suggest that this method be used. The F'Tards who dream up this stuff, are like the old addage:
"Arm chair warriors study strategy, real warriors study logistics."
There is no way that these transactions can be processed by paper...Just a thought.
Misean, I am a bit confused. The 1099s I currently am required to do are on paper. Am I having a dumbfuck moment? What do you mean by this? If I am deducting my biz expenses on my tax return, I have to add up all the "purchases" I make from a single "contractor" for the year and report it on a 1099 already. This, in my case, applies to my payments to my accountant, lawyer fees (if I have them) for services or professional fees. However, my understanding is I have to do this for just about ANYTHING I purchase now. So, in the past, I could submit my receipts for purchases made and not have to add up all my purchases for items, equipment, etc and 1099 each vendor I spend more than $600 on. Now, I am going to have to. So, if i buy $600 or more of toilet paper from my local janitorial service guy, I am gonna have to report him (if I purchase with check or credit card). That really sucks. I basically will have to narc out my suppliers to the IRS.
As I stated, I need to find the article on this that I read. It was shortly after the legislation passed, I'm fuzzy on the particulars of the argument, but it was quite interesting...GAH
And yes, to be a good citizen you must report the toilet paper purchased. You don't have anything to hide do you?
I am not an accountant, so I have to go by what my accountant says. You misunderstand (?) my point. I already deducted the tp by virtue of the receipts I submit with my tax return as an expense. But now, I have to report my tp supplier by 1099 and deduct taxes to send to the IRS if he/she doesn't have a TIN (taxpayer identification number). That is a HUGE difference. The IRS is not gonna look through each taxpayers receipts and run a tally of what was bought from my tp supplier to make sure my tp supplier reports all his/her income, impossible. Now, I have to do that work FOR the IRS, much easier to track when you have TIN number and a 1099. This will be a BIG burden and take a lot more time. Not so much with my tp supplier, but my other suppliers for "stuff" I need to do my work for my clients. This could cause me to only buy $300 from my regular tp guy and $300 to a different tp supplier in order to reduce my paperwork (this is a hypothetical example, not a real one).
I would be very interested to see the article you noted if you can find it.
And, no (cough, cough) I, nor the people I do biz with, have anything to hide. ( :
I do think this will promote a black market economy more though. Or drive the surviving small bizzes out of the country. Much as I hate to, I've been thinking of fleeing to a more biz friendly place, I don't have to be based in the US to do my work, a lot of my work is done out of the country anyway.
On another topic, I saw on NW news channel today, there was a protest of Biden visiting Portland today, he was there to PROMOTE THE KOREAN FREE TRADE AGREEMENT. So much for keeping jobs in the country. The PNW is losing the competition for jobs with the other side of the Pacific Ocean. WTF?
It's not rocket science people. Instead of using software to print out your completed tax return, you hand write the numbers on the final copy. By doing so, you clog the system since it will greatly increase the time it takes to process your returns. You get the entire nation to do it, you win the "war" via logistics.
One reason why I have never filed a tax return electronically and take the time to transcribe a copy with one hand while my other is flippin' the birdie.
But when you mail it in, it takes a stamp, $5 postage for all. Saves the Post Office !! OOOOPS, post office fired all thier workers. What to do, what to do.
Always goes certified/tracking or via FedEx. Never via standard snail mail. As long as it's postmarked prior to the 15th and you have proof it went out, that's all you have to worry about. CYA - cover your ass.
Why is it so acceptable for people to avoid taxes? Like those fucktards in the fishing industry in the gulf who take cash for their fish and now expect BP to pay them even though they have no way of proving their income... (As soon as they are successful, I am going to take a trip down south to get my share of the loot, whats good for the goose and all that shit.)
If you don't want to pay taxes move to a third world country. If you want to reduce your taxes, get involved in politics.
Finally, keep in mind that the more difficult you make it for the IRS, the more time they will spend looking at your returns... Just a thought.
Who's telling people to avoid paying taxes? Not I so back the fuck up.
Let them spend more time on my return. I'll even mail them a made in china magnifying glass with it if they'd like. Hell, I'll even cover the extra postage.
So your solution to large government and excess spending is to make it bigger by requiring more time for the government to tend to you? Do you vandalize public buildings too?
What a good little robot you are. Now, mind your masters lest they be displeased with you.
Sadly, it is people like you, who go along with any insane government compliance program or tax (and justify it) that have given the "Powers That Be" the ability and courage to destroy what little freedom we had in this country. The founders would find you lacking as a man.
A quote for you:
"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”
-Samuel Adams
why the vitriole at pan today?
i use the roads - i don't mind paying for them. i don't give a rats ass about the NEA, and i *resent* paying for that. most of us have similar 'flavor' choices, and most don't mind "paying our way". it's paying the way for others that really get's my goat. i prefer to do my own charitable deciding, thanks.
re: the hand-written tax form, i gotta go with the micro-rebellious act on this one, if only for the personal feeling of control and making it just a little bit harder for them to extract their toll from me. when i watch how they've been 'investing' my contribution, the analog to vandalising useful public buildings breaks down pretty quickly.
but pan is no robot. he's just balanced enough to question the fundamentalism that's brewing out there. keep the balance and we all have a chance, else it's 20 steps back and we have to get to this place again eventually.
I junked you. As a physician and part owner of a 45 person business this is crap. Even after all the bogus regulations I already deal with in "medicine" (evidently, we are more regulated than the GOM Oil Industry), another huge regulatory millstone is to be placed on my neck. Pan-the-ist, seriously, have you any idea of what a small business owner has to deal with? Please tell me you run a small business, or any business, or have any idea about business, or that you occasionally balance your checkbook. The issue IS NOT ABOUT PAYING MONETARY TAXES!!!! This issue being discussed is about taxing my time, patience, sanity, love of my profession and love of having my own business. There are MANY ways to be taxed...and we are already loaded to the tipping point. Also, those "f---tards" you refer to work their tails off, real work, sweat, blood, tears, danger. At least I understand that I work in air conditioned and safe environment and give due to those that aren't so blessed. Am I suppose to take your word that all or the majority of these "f---tards" are scamming?
You have it about right. And for each gas station that you buy fuel from. Or each office supply store, the coffee service supply, and each one that whatever traveling employee or crew boss used for their purchases.
Since certain gold and silver coins are legal tender, shouldn't buying them be considered just changing denominations of USD, i.e. exchanging a $10 bill for two $5's?
As long as you can find someone clueless enough to exchange 5 silver dollars for a $5 feral reserve note, no problem.
;)
They are out there....last year the college girl at the local cleaners apologized for giving me a 50¢ piece explaining they were out of quarters. It had a silver luster to it and when I got to the car I put on my glasses and saw it was a 1964 Kennedy. I went back in and asked if she had any more. She still had the other 9 she had received from another customer. She said they 'looked funny' and she had wondered if they were fake. I asked if she would take $5 for them. She asked why and I told her they were collectable. She sold them to me. Judging from this little exchange, I imagine for a case of rum she will give me a receipt showing that I got all my double eagles in change as well. Probably on 'Collegiates for Obummer' letterhead.
Since certain gold and silver coins are legal tender, shouldn't buying them be considered just changing denominations of USD, i.e. exchanging a $10 bill for two $5's?
I think so, assuming you wait until the new currency is backed by Gold/Silver again and the US Dollar, fiat, is dead. Then it's just an exchange, and there's no tax. This, in my opinion (and I'm not an accountant or a tax advisor) would be permissible under the US Constitution.
These "required" info returns are utter bullshit!
(a) Payments of $600 or more
All persons engaged in a trade or business and making payment in
the course of such trade or business to another person, of rent,
salaries, wages, premiums, annuities, compensations, remunerations,
emoluments, or other fixed or determinable gains, profits, and
income
Note the bolded words....And now for the definition...
(26) Trade or business
The term “trade or business” includes the performance of the functions of public office. Inclusio unius est exclusio alterius.Income tax: tax production.
VAT: tax consumption.
Consumption tax + production tax = thriving black market.
Something like what starting to happen here, and in Europe.
Maybe they should just bring it all on. Lower the heavy fist of government, HARD, and force the peasants to bring the whole thing down at last.
By Jan 1, 2012 gold may be unavailable, with nobody willing to trade it for paper.
No fear, the government will collapse before that bill can be implemented.
This is the end.
how long are we going to let this government run us into the ground?
apparantly, until it runs us into the ground.
If there was an insurrection it would be a bloodbath, exactly what obama wants as an excuse to take total control. If the people dont rise up the government and bankers will just gone on taking control inch by inch, anyway.
Anyone who can should get out of the us now. if you look at the government, immigration, islamification and the general degeneration of society, birth rates, all of it - if you honestly look at it and run the trends out five, ten, twenty years, its not going to be a country you want to be living in. New Zealand, Chile, Australia, Vietnam, Argentina, many other places, all have better prospects for a new life than the us. reading this article and just thinking things through is enough to force you to face the future. get out now.
Not to mention that the average US citizen will support the bloodbath.
When I emigrated in the 90s, everyone I knew thought I was nuts. Now I live in Belgium. High taxes, but free in certain ways (think of the trips to Amsterdam).
Gold here is considered a financial asset and is free of VAT (maximum anonymous purchase is €2500 worth at a time). Silver bars 'attract' (that's the word they use) VAT at 21%(!), but old coins are exempt (I like old French 5-franc pieces; French coins had silver until 1970).
No one talks about gold, but my sense is that many buy it. The dealers are bank-like operations (not hole-in-the-wall places like in the US). More significant, all the banks sell bars and the major coins. They wouldn't offer the service without sufficient volume to make it worthwhile.
This is what I am trying to judge: in which of our 'western' nations the citizens seem least amenable to government control and interference.
This is what worries me about Aus. My husband and I had a discussion recently: what happens if the worst, WORST happens? Aus isn't what I would think of as a particularly violent-inclined or 'revolutionary' culture. I don't really see our citizens erupting in violence.
What I have perceived though is a creeping oppression, and people not only don't question it, but BELIEVE the hype. We're a small population. We have a handful of good blogs, but the corporate MSM is prevalent here. We are also close to some huge countries that are very, very used to government control. Even the persistence of our housing bubble is due in part to our proximity to China. (Our closest world power.)
This honestly scares me more than the threat of violence elsewhere.
I have heard, so far, more questioning and discussion of government motives out of the US than anywhere else. There's also a lot out of the UK, and Europe takes to the streets (and doubtless discusses just as much too - I just don't have the access to that). All this seems healthier to me, than a creeping oppression.
Whenever TSHTF, I want to be where the citizens are least likely to comply. Whatever other consequences that brings. I know a lot of people here are sick of American apathy - but Zero Hedge is a mostly American-populated blog, and it is maybe the best (of many good ones) in the Anglo blogosphere for looking behind the curtain. Coincidence?
get out of the US and go where?
New Zealand, Chile, Australia, Vietnam, Argentina, many other places
Explosions, such as the riots in Oakland, are counterproductive, venting emotions that could be much better utilized. It is, of course, impossible to confront the government head on in any meaningful way. Organizations have leadership, membership roles and other characteristics that make them vulnerable to infiltration and subversion. Look what has happened to the Tea Party. More importantly, look at what happened to that pathetic little militia in Michigan recently, or those deluded boys in Florida several years back. A more disorganized sort of resistance is postulated here. http://www.etresoi.ch/Denis/disorganisation.html
I'd be willing to add 5% to all future PM purchases and receive a bonus pack of .308 or 30-06 rounds which I would proceed to take home and engrave with various idioms, such as, "Wake UP", "lookin for timmaaay", or "this round is legal tender for all debts, public and private".
It would seem, then, that gold ownership offshore with Bullionvault or Goldmoney who do not have to report to the IRS and are separate from the banking system might be an avenue to consider.
The government already has control over foreign bank entities - they will be able o demand your gold there just as they will be able to get it in the US.
Not to mention the paper trail leading from you right up to the pot o' gold.
Physical PMs, bought for cash, have the oft-overlooked advantage of anonymity. That's anathema for governments.
You may have missed the part, above, where I said "do not have to report to the IRS".
Got UBS anyone?......
You may have missed, above, where I said that they were separate from the banking industry.
The 1099 reporting requirements are true. The coin world is buzzing.
Kind of like every time you sell a stock, it constitutes a separate entry on a 1099 from your broker (in terms of proceeds). It's up to you to provide the basis and document any capital gains or losses.
Just another economy crushing paper work explosion courtesy of Big Brother.
It will just be easier to sit at home, collect a government check, and watch TV.
The paperwork burden from this is going to overwhelm a lot of businesses. It will be a huge drag on the productive capacity of US business at the worst possible time.
Why anyone still insists on purchasing anything at all with checks (sooooo...1970s!) or credit cards escapes me.
There has been a great effort made to do away with cash, with limits on non-reportable exporting cash of $10,000, elimination of larger bills, and efforts to put RFID chips in bills (I have a five-Euro bill which I put through the microwave to test this and it DOES!). But cash is still the best method of assuring financial privacy.
With FinCEN monitoring the "precious metals/jewelry industry" and requiring businesses doing over $50,000 in annual sales to collect information on their customers, as well as requiring all financial institutions to microfiche every check you use, why deal in anything but cash? If you can get paid in cash, great!
And I'd get any money I have coming in out of the originating bank ASAP and into a shoebox, safe deposit box, hole-in-the-backyard or refrigerator, never to see the inside of a bank again.
BTW, credit card transactions, even with overseas-issued cards, are easily available to the governments too.
So opening Perth Mint, GoldMoney, etc. accounts is not secure unless you somehow manage to actually physically carry enough currency overseas on your person and somehow manage to wire or otherwise deposit it into your account from another country which does NOT share information with the U.S. authorities...
Only way is: buy the bullion provided you need not show I.D. and stash it...best is to buy something easily recognizable and sold at a coin show or online rather than those cute customized silver rounds etc.
I've been given an out because I've lived overseas long enough to lose North American residency. Over the years, all my funds have legitimately left the system.
When/if I return to North America, I will first "walk across the street" here, cash in brown paper bags, to a new bank or trading account. And NONE of my assets will follow me when/if I emigrate...
Use prepaid debit cards to move cash across borders. It's legal and convenient. No reason to burden yourself with all that paper.
Either that or ship yourself the cash.
I don't know about cross-boarder but the best way to send cash domestically is to Fed-Ex it with insurance equal to the cash amount. Like the debit card idea though.
+++
but when they actively and overtly push us all to cash, it makes me think they're actively going about making the silly stuff worth-less - in the the literal sense of the word. ferfal, the argentinian collapse diary guy (google it) did notice that in the local context, cash regained local trust and value after the initial upheaval (in addition to traditional PMs and barter goods). i guess nobody had any other way of transferring liquidity...
hard/portable/anonymous assets. soon to be enemy #1 of the state
but it's all OK if you have a 30 year investment window - maybe things will be rational again by then.
As an aside I post under my given name unlike may of you pusclanimous bastards so I suppose I shoud attach my picture as well. I will remedy that shortly.
so you are more upfront... probably won't get you in trouble. probably.
but, are your ideas any better for it?
just sayin...
re: your picture... you probably 'shoud'
What does who you are have to do with anything?
I don't care a fart in a windstorm who any of these commentors or posters are. If Ben Bermonkey, Queen Elizabeth or Jesus Christ were commenting on here, they'd still sound good if what they said made sense, and they'd still be roundly mocked or junked if they sounded like morons.
To quote one of our recently thrown-out politicians, "Do you know who I am?"*
No and I don't care, b/c none of us is anyone special. As opposed to the MSM or some blogs, where any stupid 'Beautiful People' celebrity or govvie/corporate bigwig gets airtime for their drivel.
Let what you say stand or fall on its own without 'identity' props. Just make sense. Leave the 'But Who Are You Really' shtick to the paparazzi.
* That was...wait for it...Belinda Neale. Oooooooo.
yeah, yeah - what *she* said!
:^)
Ok, I confess everyone. I'm really the artist "Gerardo" who had the one-hit wonder "Rico Suave."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx64_N4AA04
Ok so where were we? Ahhh yes, the VAT can kiss my brown ass. Make you feel better? Apparently central bankers have nothing better to do but to hire more trolls with all the taxpayer funded bonuses. Kinda gets boring when everyone on the block is driving a Veyron these days.
Americans who meekly put up with this tyranny remind me of the battered spouse who won't leave her husband. Don't waste time trying to legislatively mitigate the transparently clear and present danger to your property rights. You cannot negotiate with terrorists. Get off the fiat dollar plantation while you still can.
"Americans who meekly put up with this tyranny remind me of the battered spouse who won't leave her husband."
+10 I agree with what you said, and yet I am somewhat disturbed by that.
I'll be honest, I never thought I would see the disintegration of this country....I was wrong....
i, for one, was too busy with the bread and circuses (mostly domestic tasking, and some american idol - carrie underwood, etc :^) to notice the crap going on, and worse, *too trusting* of the government to question their actions/motives.
it was too easy to just go along with my average american day.
now i just hope i'm not noticing too late.
most of my friends still aren't there yet. scary.
A lot more detail on the various hoops through which dealers and customers are required to jump: http://news.coinupdate.com/irs-and-government-reporting-requirements-for-coin-and-bullion-dealers-0353/
Although the FinCEN website says their mission is:
"FinCEN's mission is to enhance U.S. national security, deter and detect criminal activity, and safeguard financial systems from abuse by promoting transparency in the U.S. and international financial systems."
A lot can be read into that. Also,
"FinCEN is issuing this regulation to better protect those that deal in jewels, precious metals and precious stones from potential abuse by criminals and terrorists. The characteristics of jewels, precious metals and precious stones that make them valuable also make them potentially vulnerable to those seeking to launder money..."
Bullshit.
The thing they are truly TERRIFIED of, one which keeps them in waking nightmares and against which the state will behave with the utmost savagery, is TAX EVASION. The greatest threat to government.
Well, it sure feels good to know i began hoarding large quantities of various silver bullion coins and bars since purchasing in early 2004 when silver was trading around $4 (£8 in the U.K. at the time).In the U.K. VAT is charged on all silver and palladium, rate now 17.5% increasing to 20% from JAN2011.The numbskull British Treasury lowered this rate to 15% for a period of 13 months DEC08-JAN10.During this period my treasure chest gained more(£'s) HA!HA! weight as my buying increased, so thanks again.
So Chancellor, "Ya dirty double crossing VATS thought you pulled a fast one"....you wish.
But it’s not just gold – it’s any and all companies that would be required to file a 1099 for anything over $600. A lot of people feel it won’t pass, and I have a hard time believing it will, too. It would really kill the small businessman; they’d spend their entire time filling out paperwork for the government. Hopefully it won’t pass. Think about this:
As a business, I am already required to do this. It's nothing new, from what I can tell.
It absolutely is new. Right now you're only issuing 1099's to individual contractors, those you pay rent to, professional services, and the like.
You'll soon be required to issue a 1099 to anyone & everyone you pay over $600 in a year. Corporations are no longer exempt.
I'll be issuing about 50x more 1099's when this goes into effect.
Fuck me. I just read the it. I guess my bookkeeper/accountant will be charging me a shitload more. But if I buy $600 worth of materials from an online company, how do I get their EIN/TIN and address? WTF? This is going to make the purchasing of materials a hell of a lot more complicated.
As I said on BK's Red Money post http://www.zerohedge.com/article/red-money-conspiracy-theory-11 the government will eventually figure out that getting rid of cash is a much more effective way of accomplishing the same goals (and so much more!)
The real power move here is that the government just eliminates or severely restricts the use of all cash period. Forever. Everyone gets a debit card tied to their SS# and you get paid electronically, pay all bills electronically and buy all things in stores with the plastic. All kinds of illegal activity would come to a standstill overnight: drugs, bribes, prostitution, black market, gambling, counterfeiting and any tax evasion of any kind over a penny - anything that relies on a transaction with no audit trail. You could still hustle in PM and barter but it probably wouldn't be like it was before when the greenback was king. The downside of course is that the government would have it's microscope so far up your ass you won't be able to buy a fucking Fresca without it showing up on 17 different reports. In other words, how could Obama not love this idea?
This is along the lines of my worst fears too.
Of course the chances of fuck-up with transactions reliant entirely on machines are legion. Look how much suspense HFT has added to markets.
I could see our governments attempting it. I honestly don't think they'd succeed just for the massive, ongoing efficiency this would entail. I also think the black market would dwarf machine-driven markets PDQ. But such speculation isn't very comforting.
Not sure it would halt illegal activity, after reading the latest about Wachovia and Wells Fargo. Plus, illegal activity would add rocket fuel a black market (and not in a good way either).
More and more, I am reminded these days of the final years of the USSR.
It would halt many (is what I mean in this context) kinds of current illegal activity in their current forms or at least make them much more onerous.
600 dollars is 12 US gold eagles($50) or 600 US silver eagles($1).
BTW most small bullion dealers do not comply with any of these things.
If I received a 1099 from one of these jokers I would immediate send notice to them and sue under the IRC. They are making a legal determination to your status which is the job of the Sec. of Treasury. People still don't understand how the system works... assumptions.
http://www.reclaimmichigan.com
You guys better start learning what it really means to be free, being free is not free, it takes work.
Mako, can you explain about making a legal determination to your status? I don't understand this.
Your employer or in this case a business has failed to secure the administrative determination as to your status from the service prior to submitting a collection of information form ie 1099 or W-2. Assumptions. Did you receive "notice" of this determination that does not exist so that you may challenge any determination? No, nor could you because no determination was made.
The Secretary then processes all collections of information under the presumption of correctness, that is you are person subject to and liability for.
The person or business submitting a 1099 or W-2 prior to securing a determination of status is lying in equity.
Reference Form SS-8 (1545-0004)
No notice to the individual from the Secretary as codified by 26 USC 6011. Let me see no Notice, what happened to due process? Assumptions. Secretary can't send you a notice when it didn't get a request for a determination of your status.
Once those collection of information goes in their system, the Service must presume the information is correct and will process said information request under the presumption of correctness. The law hasn't changed since the time of the Magna Carta.
I would recommend http://www.reclaimmichigan.com Ken is the first person I have run across that understands.
Only the Secretary shall determine sources of taxable income by roaming the Federal Districts in compliance to 26 USC Chapter 78. Yet in the example given for this thread, the business made and assumption which requires a determination so that you can challenge such determination. You can't challenge a determination that was never made.
All of this is a swing towards more tax. Washington tried to pressure the europeans into more stimulus but they are revolting. The current euro bailout is still in doubt as being in violation of maastricht or lisbon.
A quote I misplaced was along the lines of politicians getting desperate, always resort to stealth taxes and this is what we are seeing across the board. Vat, CGT up in the UK. Talk of privatising the roads, alcopop tax... Climate change scam taxes. This will run and run and run.
Not to worry
http://www.businessinsider.com/the-truth-revealed-yes-gold-is-a-decent-i...
THE TRUTH REVEALED: Yes, Gold Is A Decent Inflation Hedge -- But It's 3X Overvalued And A Lousy Investmenthe Economist has helpfully published a chart that should help resolve two age-old arguments:
1) whether gold is good inflation hedge, and
2) whether gold is a good investment.
Based on this chart of inflation-adjusted prices since 1800, the answer to the first question is "yes--gold's a good inflation hedge."
Image: The Economist
Of course, being a good inflation hedge is not the same thing as being a good investment.
Yes, gold has been a better investment than currency over the past 200 years, but that's not saying much. For most of this period, gold has done vastly worse than the stock market and worse than most bonds and real-estate. Basically, it has done about as well as T-bills, which generally offset inflation but provide little return beyond that.
Specifically, on an inflation-adjusted basis, gold has generally traded between $300 and $600 an ounce for the past 200 years.
And so how does gold look now, relative to that level?
Less than the peak in the 1980s. But still about 2.5X overvalued.
In other words, if you're buying gold today, you believe the following (whether you know it or not):
1) Gold is going to trade to a much higher level than it has traded for most of the past 200 years and stay there because the world has changed ("This time it's different")
OR
2) Gold is in the early stages of a crazy bubble that is going to briefly drive prices into the stratosphere before they collapse back to normal $300-$600 levels ("Yes, it's a bubble, but I'm going to be smart enough to sell before it bursts.")
Those, by the way, are the two beliefs that are common in every investment bubble. Some people think the world has changed and that it's "different this time." (It usually isn't.) Other people think that it's just a bubble but they'll be smart enough to get out ahead of the crowd. (Most don't).
So now you know!
(By the way, if you buy gold now thinking it will be a good inflation hedge and gold prices collapse to their normal levels, gold will not have been a good inflation hedge--unless the currency collapse is even worse. Your entry price matters...)
What a fucking bullshit propaganda piece.
First of all, the population has increased dramatically over the past 200 years, so has the amount of assets and commerce in the world, but the supply of gold is restrained by new mining (which is increasingly becomming more costly and hard to mine). If we assume gold is money (I know, big assumption for dickhead economists), we must have a higher price for gold if/when fiat money collapses (as all fiat money has done since recorded history began).
And regarding the $300-400 historical average, that was when gold was easy to find and mine. It costs big producers lots of money to mine gold now. If the price fell to $300-400, no one would mine gold. What happens when supply falls and demand stays the same? The "difference this time" is that the world is running out of all natural resources, oil, gold, rare earth metals, etc.
The people buying gold are betting on future resource scarcity, economic collapse, TSHTF scenarios, and hyperinflation / fiat collapse. The people holding electronic and paper money are betting that none of the above will happen. And they are being paid no interest by the banking system currently for that risk. And there is risk in everything now, which is again bullish for gold.
Yeah, gold's in a bubble, as said by people who couldn't spot any of the other bubbles. But they gots this one, nigga
Gold CANNOT be in a bubble unless people are buying it on credit to flip.
Gold production peaked in 2000. Its price movement since is consistent with standard supply/demand dynamics
Jon? Jon Nadler, is that you?
so gully, i guess you should sell.
excellent. more sellers.
I have no doubt that the gov will try to extract more wealth from its citizens. Their technique is quite apparent. That is, run up the charge card on the citizens behalf under the claim of doing it for them, then once the bill appears, sorry folks but we need more of your skin to pay for this. Its the same game some spouses use on each other. It will continue until there is a divorce.
coin tax
http://news.coinupdate.com/irs-and-government-reporting-requirements-for...
Bartering is one avenuefoundation. In the trades this happens frequently with no tax involved. An electrician p[uts in a few outlets for a carpenter who builds some stairs. a plumber puts ina new shower and a mason fixes a foundation etc.. In addition there are many bartering sites with many members from all different professions.
I'm sure the goverment hates these transactions, but it is the oldest way of doing business without any currency involvement. However, since services are not often tit for tat service currency is often built up for bartering power.
Yes, bartering skill sets for one another is certainly a step in the right direction but raw materials/power/fuel would still be needed and Big Gov would no doubt tax these like hell.Personally i'm pretty handy in WOODWORK plus there ls a nearby forest to provide all the timber needed to craft your custom made armchair.
A nice armchair might be worth an equal value in solar panels or cylinders of natural/propane gas. An electrician could hook up your supply of natural gas or propane to a NG generator for another wood crafted device enabling you to go off the grid. Personally, when my last two finish college that is the direction I am hoping to head in. Check out some of the local bartering web sites in your area.
This is beginning to look more and more ominous for all Americans and members of western developed nations. The willingness of the dependent to become enforcers for the government will play in the future. We have created three generation of brown shirts in training with the guarantee of payments and benefits for staying at home.
Bread and circuses. Old play and it works.
Here is what the powers that be seem to forget:
Every attempt at creating perfect control has always devolved into anarchy. The following destruction of empire creates centuries of violence and darkness. People resort to security over production and the world economy fails.
The human capacity for violence and destruction is unlimited. It is unfortunate that the elites feel they are "untouchable". They will bring this maelstrom upon us all. You can not trust in the "intelligensia"- they are often the first victims as they fail to understand the beast within. The governments think they can control through edict, but that only happens when you can control lawlessness. Like all egotistical people, they fail to contemplate their weakness in the face of social destruction.
Brutal violence becomes a law unto itself. Witness Mexico and their current drug wars. The people begin to choose the power most able to protect and provide for it. Guess what, it isn't always the government. The escalation of authority merely plays into the criminal's hands.
This is another brick in the wall. Another tax? No employment. Liabilities without the ability to satisfy them. Meaningless wages that discourage the search for skill development through higher education.
When does violence and thuggery become economically viable?
It is at this point that the system will suffer catastrophic failure from effects that snowball beyond it's ability to "protect and serve". Wealth will retreat to their ivory towers which they can afford to safeguard and the rest will devolve into ugly, dangerous social debasement and failure.
History is a great chronicler of events, but a terrible teacher. We never learn.
"History is a great chronicler of events, but a terrible teacher. We never learn."
We are first of a unique species here on earth. The first major break in the evolutionary chain in the animal kingdom. I think it is too optimistic to think this species would get it right the first time around. Hopefully the next chain up will rely more on rational thought versus emotion.
I would like to think that one of the future generations will put us into drive to get to the next level, but all I see is humanity grinding itself in neutral. Maybe someday it will find it. Otherwise, we will go extinct like so many things before us.
In a small, out of print book entitled 'World Population and Human Values,' Jonas and Jonathan Salk make an incredibly profound point. Consider the growth of any biological population in a closed system--it takes the form of a sigma (s) curve, with a long low plateau, a rapid expansion, and then a long high plateau. This is what all global human population forecasts call for, stabilization sometime this century at a new plateau.
Now, consider the GROWTH RATE for that population. It is simply zero, very high, then zero again. It appears as a short, sudden spike in a long term chart.
Who are we? We, a mere speck of a dozen generations (1750-2100) among thousands, are blessed, and cursed, with living in the one and only transition time our species will ever know. No humans ever experienced what we are experiencing...and none will again.
So to put your very good point into context: why on Earth would anyone expect our 30,000+ years of social evolution to have equipped us with the tools for this completely unprecedented experience? A good debate, but one we will likely never see, would be whether we have been given the amazing combination of adaptability (from devil to angel in each of us!) and continuity (if we can hold society together) to make it to the point of having built a high-population society worth living in. Salk and Salk have a lot to say about this too...but precious few writing today know what side of the paper bag they're in.
Food for thought....you could also pick up an even older book about humanity (the First Men) and our hypothetical descendents' recollection of us by Olaf Stapledon, 'Last and First Men'. A 1930s classic. Spectacular vision, unforgettable.
I can haz revalooshun now pleeze.
Can't wait to learn what other gems such as this are tucked into the Hell-care law.
...and yet, no one can tell me why gold legal tender tops out at $50 face value.
They set $50 as the top face value at a time when gold was trading in the free market at - what, $300? Early, mid-1980s?
Anyway, I'd like to see a one-troy-ounce face value of $1200, but that would soon be out of date...what would THAT say about the real value of their paper dollars? Pretty embarrassing.
And every last soul on the planet would be cashing in paper dollars for gold ones...
"Face value" is a meaningless absurdity on a precious metal coin.
The UK's web site, whilst laudable, does not scratch the surface.
Under Labour around 6,300 NEW laws (yes, that's correct, 6,300) were enacted. How can we ask for these to be repealed when the odds are we don't even know the laws are there?
I have no political affiliations.
DavidC
We will all be tested, but so were past generations. My grandfather in N. Dakota was forced by the feds to plow under crops and shoot 75% of his herd. As if the tornados and frigid winters weren't enough!
Spend more time moving forward (networking, gathering resources, learning new skills) and less time observing the details of this bloody train wreck. Move to a community of like-minded individuals. Your PMs need to become seeds of productivity and not just buy you a pallet of canned soup.
You'd get to know your neighbors real fast wouldn't you? Forced self-reliance and vigilanty justice could just be what the doctor ordered.
if I had any gold, they could pry it from my cold-dead fucking hand
just read USC (United States Code) 31, 5112.
You will then be made aware that a FRN and an Eagle exist side by side in the "legal tender" world. Which would you rather be paid with in exchange for your labor?
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