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Guest Post: If This Is What Deflation Looks Like…

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Mike Krieger of Kam LLP

Automatons with business suits swinging black boxes,
Sequestering the blueprints of daily life
Contented, free of care, they rejoice in morning ritual
As they file like drone ant colonies to their office in the sky

I don't ask questions, don't promote demonstration,
Don't look for new consensus, don't stray from constitution
If I pierce the complexity I won't find salvation
Just the bald and overt truth
Of the evil and deception

There is an inner logic,
And we're taught to stay far from it
It is simple and elegant,
But it's cruel and antithetic
And there's no effort to reveal it

Graduated mentors stroll in marbled brick porticos
in sagacious dialog they despise their average ways
betraying pomp and discipline, they mold their institution
Where they practice exclusion on the masses every day

Decorated warriors drill harmless kids on pavement
Stimulating tyranny under red alert
Protecting the opulent and staging moral standard
They expect redemption of character and self-growth

Bad Religion, Inner Logic (1994)

If This Is What Deflation Looks Like…

Then I really, really, REALLY don’t want to ever see what inflation looks like.  Despite the title of this piece I do not wish to engage in some inane debate about whether deflation or inflation is the risk.  I have made it clear for two years now that we are in a highly deflationary environment occurring within the backdrop of a purely fiat monetary system that is governed by “experts” whose ideological framework is based upon the false economic religion known as Keynesianism.  So for people that are actually trying to preserve their wealth an intellectual debate on inflation or deflation might be interesting but is not particularly productive.  I can understand why many in the financial services industry see the greatest risk to be deflation.  Why?  Because for them it is.  Stocks, bonds and real estate will perform horribly in the environment that we have.  Even if they go up for periods, over time they will not make up for the cost of living increases in the things that we need.  This is the major disconnect happening right now between “Wall Street” and “Main Street.”  Wall Street has been coddled and pampered for two and a half decades by the natural forces of a secular bull market in financial assets as well as the Federal Reserve Chairman and a D.C. establishment that refuses to allow the free market to function.  So when a money manager of financial assets looks into his future and sees deflation he is correct.  When the majority of “Main Street” looks into their future they also correctly see inflation.  That is because when you have 40 million Americans on food stamps I am sorry but they have much bigger issues to deal with than the S&P500.  So the world we are looking at is where a BLT sandwich could cost $12 and home prices drop another 20%.  Investment professionals have a very hard time getting the heads around this concept for some reason but that is the reality we are looking at.  Goods that are wanted around the world will rise in price in debased dollars while non-essential items deflate.  The Chinese want pork but they could care less about some McMansion in Ohio.  There is nothing anyone can do to change this.  It is a natural cycle as simple, powerful and inevitable as any cycle in nature.  If it must happen, it will happen.

My problem with the “deflationists” that recommend a high allocation of assets to long-term treasuries is that there are a lot of better assets to buy in the type of environment we are entering.  As I have repeated over and over again these assets are primarily precious metals but also include other commodities.  Especially commodities that people need and are strategic to governments such as food and oil.  There are plenty of equities that are associated with these themes and in my opinion they will do far better over time than long-term treasuries.  Gold for example IS the end game.  Treasuries certainly are not.  Gold is the best way to short the market.  Gold is the ultimate form of payment.  Gold is your vote as an investment manager and a citizen against the maniacs running governments all over the world.  Without going too far into it in this email I think the move we just saw in gold and in the gold shares is the beginning of one of the most powerful moves we will ever see in our lifetime.  I keep reading technical guys talking about tops in gold.  We are very early into this gold bull market from a price perspective.  I think we could see similar gains of the last ten years compressed into the next two.  I also think gold shares will start to outperform gold itself, which would be an major transition.  The curtain has been lifted, the emperor has no clothes and the quicker you figure this out and act the better.

Ok, so some quick charts here for those that aren’t paying particularly close attention to the various commodity markets.  If this is deflation…

Corn 1 Year Chart

Cotton 1 Year Chart

Lean Hogs 1 Year Chart


Currency Comments 

Two weeks ago I discussed that the market would push the yen to the point where the BOJ would be forced to take aggressive action to stop it and then potentially the yen would start to collapse and the JGBs would go with it.  This would then herald the end of the government bond bubble globally (it’s really a fiat currency bubble).  Well, the yen did push the government in Japan and they did act and the yen got smashed by 3% versus the dollar in one of the most powerful reversals I have ever seen.  Does this mean the end of the yen’s rally and JGBs?  Way too early to tell, but I did get something else from it.   Surprise, surprise it is exceptionally bullish for gold.  Why?  Because it just proved to another segment of the investment world that perhaps remained in denial that all governments are playing games with your savings.  That fiat currencies are pieces of paper that are being fondled and molested by global central bankers.  That these games will not stop.  The Fed can buy all the SPU futures they want and the other players can sell the treasuries they recently bought back to the Fed and then goose the market, but the magicians of mayhem can’t print gold and that is all you need to know. 

Welcome to the Revolution     

There is a revolution happening in America and it is coming from all sectors and it is being brought to you by people from all walks of life.  My generation has been subject to vicious propaganda and brainwashing since we were born and we are waking up to it.  We are not happy about it and we are going to change this sick system.  Did anyone else find it odd that the media decided to blow up a story about some nut that wanted to burn Korans?  We are in a depression and THAT is a story they chose to headline?  Very suspicious.  Don’t fall for it.  Take the red pill and let’s get on with it.

Mike

 

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Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:42 | 585567 Pining for the ...
Pining for the Fjords's picture

Dammit, Mike.  The first rule of Fight Club is we do not talk about Fight club.  Otherwise, great stuff.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:14 | 585655 B9K9
B9K9's picture

@CogDis said “None took my advice (naturally) since Mr. Negative is too negative to be correct in the face of the MSM drone that all is well.”

Cog, the day only a small fraction of your client base begins to wake up and realize something is amiss is perhaps the earliest, and most valuable, leading indicator to which one might have access.

As many know, I happen to subscribe to the deflationary hyper-inflation hypothesis. That is, hyper-inflation won't necessarily ensue due to excess money aggregates chasing too few goods. Instead, hyper-inflation will come about as a general loss of confidence in the underlying legal tender used as the primary means of exchange. In fact, well known historical precedents of subsequent central bank reactive money printing exercises are effects rather than causes.

IOW, as it becomes increasingly apparent that the combined US public/private debt will never be re-paid (and could conceivably be defaulted outright), the $dollar which rides atop this pyramid-of-faith will collapse in value. Under this scenario, the price of goods begins to rapidly escalate as people desperately attempt to rid themselves of worthless fiat confetti, culminating in critical goods (food, oil) eventually being removed altogether from the market-place in exchange for $USD.

The action in gold we're seeing these days is only a front-runner to what is going to occur across a broader market basket of goods & services when the herd eventually panics & bolts.

You, my friend, will be able to bestow the ultimate correlation confirmation kiss. When your clients begin to reveal/confess even a shadow of a doubt, that will be the initial tip off regarding an overall loss of confidence. I just hope you share it all with your fellow ZH denizens before the cascade event(s) begins in earnest.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:16 | 585861 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

Yes, I think the gold bears are too focused on a typical "inflation" scenario or excess money supply, and ignore the likely outcome you outlined, loss of faith in the USD here and around the world.  Do they read any of the articles like the one above and have a cogent argument against them?  Oh well, I guess it would be boring if we all had the same point of view.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:35 | 585910 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

All laid out in painstaking detail on FOFOA's site...

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:48 | 585934 mrgneiss
mrgneiss's picture

I think he should win a Nobel Prize in economics (FOFOA)..........he's a nice change from your usual economist..........one tiny nit-pick I have is how he often will bring up a tantalizing topic, then he'll write "more on that later"

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:14 | 585987 Pining for the ...
Pining for the Fjords's picture

+++   FOFOA is a treasure, a must-read if you haven't.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:22 | 585685 mule65
mule65's picture

Sounding more like The Matrix than Fight Club LOL.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:43 | 585571 Slartebartfast
Slartebartfast's picture

Exactly!

+++++++++++

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:52 | 585591 UncleBen
UncleBen's picture

toathis, you are the same babyhomo from the gay-ass Marketwatch board...you suck

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:59 | 585607 JJ McApe
JJ McApe's picture

WOOT WOOT

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:37 | 586040 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Toathis, time to crawl back to Cramerica.  Jimmy has some koolaid for you to wash another blue pill down.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:00 | 585612 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Wow, I guess there's no arguing with that thesis.  I mean, your refutation of the above article is stellar, and your evidence truly is beyond debate.  Well played...asshole.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:12 | 585648 Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

+1

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:10 | 585637 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

/sarcasm

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:12 | 585647 Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

Of course Great Depression 2.0 is "not coming."

How can it "come" when it's already here?

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 20:05 | 586764 Xedus129
Xedus129's picture

(Insert Dirty Joke Here)

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:15 | 585660 Pillage
Pillage's picture

babybop from marketwatch

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:27 | 585697 NumberNone
NumberNone's picture

HEY...some of my best friends are alocholics. hic..we like to drink straight from the bolottles...hic

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:15 | 585856 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture
@Toathis   Sorry baby face. I sure wish it was so but it ain't.  The actions of the central planners both in US and globally represent a huge misallocation (theft) of already scarce wealth and resources such that what is coming down the road for us soon is going to be a monumental tragedy.  Try to live through it, remember it and  make it a permanent lesson  against monopoly governmental services, central banks and fiat currency.   Good can come from this eventually but you got to grow your thinking and come to understand what it is you are seeing now and about to see, and not fall for the same old lies and propaganda.  May I suggest you study Austrian economics to get a basic grasp as to what is happening now and what will shortly happen? Good luck!
Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:05 | 585966 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture

Going through the "hierachy of needs".

1. Food and water - OK or not?

2. Safety, security, and protection from the elements. OK?

3. Sense of belonging - Love  OK ??????????

4. Esteem, recognition, status ??????????????????????????

5. Selfactualization ???????????????????????????????? 

All may have to "Suck it up" a little.  Many people around today have expectations that cannot be met in the long run for the total populace. Yes there will be movements and maybe riots.  But look at the bright side.  IMO, the disciplines required will not be as severe as those required prior to the "swinging 60s .  Something like the 70s should be sustainable.  The housing market that seems to be emerging gives one little straw in the wind. 

Cheers.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:20 | 585868 doggings
doggings's picture

'kin tw@t.

none so blind as those who will not see.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:47 | 585576 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

Bi-flation... Inflation in the things you need; deflation in the things you own and earn.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:58 | 585600 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

So the world we are looking at is where a BLT sandwich could cost $12 and home prices drop another 20%.

Absolutely correct IMO. 

Bi-flation... Inflation in the things you need; deflation in the things you own and earn.

I'd only add this slight change: things bought with long-term debt fall in price, things bought with cash flow that are needed to survive (food, energy) go up in price, all when priced in fiat. 

Everything is deflating with respect to real money (gold), some things (houses) faster than others.  This is the thing that "financial professionals" don't get, can't get, and never will get.  So, wrt gold, we are in a deflationary environment.  When you think of it in these terms it makes perfect sense.

Investment professionals have a very hard time getting the heads around this concept for some reason but that is the reality we are looking at.

That's because they're all graduates of some stupid indoctrination B school like Wharton where they churn out Keynesian drones.  I've met and spoken with some of these people and the depth of their indoctrination is amazingly deep.  The fiat paradigm has been hammered into them.  I think in B school they get them to buy the program by first blowing a lot of sunshine up their asses, like telling them they're smarter than everyone else, then they start in with the wonder of fiat currency thingies, fractional-reserve lending, Fed-love, and hatred of gold.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:07 | 585631 centerline
centerline's picture

Most investment professionals are completely "inside the box."  Taught economics and finance from treetop level down to the details - accepting that the given starting point is factual and sound.  It works just fine, until it doesn't.  Then, everyone is suddenly an idiot.  Amazing.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:35 | 586029 maddy10
maddy10's picture

Infact most "experts" are inside the box.

Once you stop renormalising infinities whole quantum theory fails,

Once you go into stem cells,cancer Doctors have no answer

within the constraints that we have imposed upon ourselves, we have "experts" everywhere

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:12 | 585846 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

indeflation: noun; not sure whether prices are rising or falling...

 

(+++ btw, SWR)

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:07 | 585971 chistletoe
chistletoe's picture

someone is indekitchen with Dinah ...

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 16:15 | 586148 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture

SWRichmond,

+10

All you said and weak math.  I am just an engineer but I  had at lest one course rigorous in vector and tensor usage.  Everything that I have seen in the general economics analysis amounts to trend analysis; not much there on what goes into and comes out of the elements of the economic system. 

The famous professor Merton is reported after the imfamous LTCM meltdown that he was pessimistic on ever being able to mathematically predict risk in derivatives.  

It will never be easy but if schools like Harvard and Wharton would require a regorous course in vector and tensor math, before they start with the advanced economics courses, there might be some rollback in the "mysterys" that currently bedevil the economic academia.  

Here is one shot a better analysis of one area of the problem.

http://mpra.ub.uni-muenchen.de/15892/1/MPRA_paper_15892.pdf

AND

Matt Taibii's site:

http://astrocycle.net/GS_PumpAndDump.pdf

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:59 | 585608 Dismal Scientist
Dismal Scientist's picture

Couldn't agree more

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:15 | 585659 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

What I've been saying for months and months. We're going BI!

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:49 | 585770 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Exactly, a hot dog will cost $24 bucks, a 3 bdr 1, 1/2 bath will cost about $20,000, welcome to Ameribabwe.

OH, and BTW its all a moot point anyway because Ameribabwe is a -0- production economy, we dont make anything, so no one will have a job so just get a chess board and spend days in the park like they do in Havana.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:56 | 585914 fiddler_on_the_roof
fiddler_on_the_roof's picture

why do you say USA don't have anything. Not True.

USA have everything - Primary : Food/best Ag lands, Armaments, Medicine,Natural Gas, Natural resources/waterways/Ports, healthy population growth ... Secondary:Computers, Software, Network Gears, Universities, Infrastructure

 

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 19:10 | 586660 LMAO
LMAO's picture

I couldn't agree more when it comes to "healthy population growth"

Flashes of "The Biggest loser" zapping through my head.

No wonder health care is unaffordable. LMAO

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:48 | 585918 fiddler_on_the_roof
fiddler_on_the_roof's picture

Deleted, but junked you.

 

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:21 | 585871 SpeakerFTD
SpeakerFTD's picture

I mentioned this on an earlier thread, but the inflation/deflation debate has to be looked at one the basis of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs

 

Basically anything that corresponds with "self-actualization" will virtually go to zero, while prices soar for everything related to  "physiological"

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:07 | 585972 gumstick2003@ya...
gumstick2003@yahoo.com's picture

no, self-actualization is a myth. not possible, because its not static. by its own definition. it can neither be deflated or inflated by anything occurring outside itself. think the Matrix.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:49 | 585582 Calls and Putz
Calls and Putz's picture

Exactly....

...It's Youflation™ - where the prices of things you need go up and he prices of things you own go down.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:15 | 585853 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

who junked *that*? i'm gonna borrow that, it's a great quote. ( naturally w/ attributions, etc.)

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:44 | 586051 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Attribution my fuzzy coon butt.  I'm flat stealin' it.

(Gotta uphold the coon tradition; see that mask on my face.)

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 16:38 | 586223 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

I would copyright dat right dere, beeaatch...

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 01:26 | 587233 Moonrajah
Moonrajah's picture

Youflation - great neologism! How about we take it one notch higher and make a YouFlate site where anybody can upload their videos about the effect of ...flation in their region? Nothing like getting it straight from the horse's mouth.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:49 | 585583 romanko
romanko's picture

why do I feel like I'm at choir practice?

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:23 | 585686 Hansel
Hansel's picture

Because the priest is touching you down there?  :P

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:51 | 585787 Yophat
Yophat's picture

Thanks for the laugh!!!

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 08:10 | 587481 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

harharhar! good one, Hansel

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:50 | 585586 zaknick
zaknick's picture

Gonna keep posting this all day because it should help clear up a lot of ambiguity and shows us how badly we've been had.

 

http://www.monetary.org/houseoflordstalk.pdf

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:28 | 585701 ZackLo
ZackLo's picture

Some good stuff in there but, I would rather not give the power to create money to the government because if you look at the way they handle taxes now....shit we would lose half our purchasing power in a week if those crazies on the hill got the ability to print money. Also you have to remember we live in a democracy so the mob rules...and they WILL vote to steal from each other.. The fed is private and it still prints at the whim...fuck printing presses.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:56 | 585807 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Zacklo

Yeah, it's a hell of a dilemma. Either the Fed is controlled by the democratic process (the mob?) or you let some self-important criminals control the country through the money supply.

So how's the current system working for ya ????

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:53 | 585933 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture
@ Kayman, Zacklo: ............................................................................................................................................. There are much better alternatives!  The establishment would rather you didn't know about them. I would strongly urge you to reclaim your "power of the purse" and only purchase security and adjudication services (what many think only a monopoly crime syndicate called the "state" can provide) from those non-monopoly services providers who respect and keep voluntary agreements among non-predatory individuals, groups and families. You could start by studying the history of Ireland before 1650. It is an example of a functioning society that lasted more than a thousand years with  a free market justice and security network without a  so  called "state" in the conventional sense. Check out: ............................................................................................................................................ http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block165.html http://www.libertarianstandard.com/articles/david-j-heinrich/justice-for-all-without-the-state/ http://mises.org/ ........................................................................................................................................... If you want to learn about it.  Also check out the works of Rothbard and Hermann-Hoppe.
Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:51 | 586071 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

 

I think you got the right understanding Kayman. Do I get to vote on the next Chairman of the Central Bank? What if the Central Banks de-facto own the government? So I get to vote for the President who is told who to elect as the next Chairman which has already been nominated by the Central Bank.

Government should issue the currency and liquidity/storage function of banks should evolve into peer-to-peer lending and CB's go for a bigger supply chain based on carrots vs a gun pointed at your head.

But the Golden Calf won't decentralize itself outside of war creating pain for them as individuals (lost family members that gold just can't buy back).

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:16 | 585860 Yophat
Yophat's picture

“A nation of well-informed men who have been taught to know and prize the rights which God has given them cannot be enslaved. It is in the region of ignorance that tyranny begins.” Benjamin Franklin

“What luck for rulers that men do not think.” Adolf Hitler

Benjamin Franklin when asked by a woman, "What kind of government have you given us?" Replied, "A Republic Madam, if you can keep it!"

As Margaret Thatcher famously observed,
“The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people’s money to spend”

"…profit motive DIMINISHES as government controls, regulations and taxes INCREASE to deny the fruits of success to those who produce. Therefore, any attempt THROUGH GOVERNMENTAL INTERVENTION to redistribute the material rewards of labor can only result in the eventual destruction of the productive base of society, without which real abundance and security for more than the ruling elite is quite impossible.

England was killed by an idea: the idea that the weak, indolent and profligate must be supported by the strong, industrious, and frugal – to the degree that tax-consumers will have a living standard comparable to that of taxpayers; the idea that government exists for the purpose of plundering those who work to give the product of their labor to those who do not work. The economic and social cannibalism produced by this communist-socialist idea will destroy any society which adopts it and clings to it as a basic principle.

There is one simple test. Do I as an individual have a right to use force upon my neighbor to accomplish this goal? If I do have such a right, then I may delegate that power to my government to exercise on my behalf. If I do not have that right as an individual, then I cannot delegate it to government, and I cannot ask my government to perform the act for me." E. Benson, Secretary of Agriculture

“…the Federal Judiciary…[is] an irresponsible body, working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing it’s noiseless step like a thief over the field of jurisdiction until all shall be usurped from the States; and the governments of all be consolidated into one.” Thomas Jefferson

“The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion.” Edmund Burke 1784

“Those who would place security over liberty shall deserve, nor receive neither.” Benjamin Franklin

“Perhaps it is a universal truth that the loss of liberty at home is to be charged against provisions against danger, real or pretended from abroad.” Letter to Thomas Jefferson, May 13, 1798, James, Madison, page 141

"Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded . . ." Political Observations April 20 1795, James Madison,, page 491

...the war on terror....Who's terror?

“The shaft of the arrow had been feathered with one of the eagle’s own plumes. We often give our enemies the means of our own destruction.” Aesop

“Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it.” George Bernard Shaw

“Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigue of supporting it” Patrick Henry

“If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest for freedom, go home and leave us in peace. We seek not your council nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” Samuel Adams

“Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened.” Winston Churchill

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:29 | 585706 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Thank you.  That is fucking excellent reading.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:25 | 585879 packman
packman's picture

Complete tripe.  The author somehow completely misses the fact that government is the tool for private enterprise to debase money.  Expanded government control does not check the power of private banks to debase the currency - it increases it.

We've been had all right, but not in the way that you think.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:48 | 585931 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Bill Still / Ellen Brown wing of the gold sucks party...

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:15 | 585978 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture
@packman:   Good observation, only I would be more precise in my wording. It is monopoly "government"  that will always eventually do this. Monopolies of power attract those who wish to steal using the cloak and shield of "government". Only purchase your adjudication and security services from non-monopoly service providers. Study Icelandic and especially Irish history before 1650 to learn about non-conventional "stateless" societies.  Learn about non-monopoly adjudication and security services. It worked in Ireland for over a thousands years. Check out: ............................................................................................................................................ http://www.lewrockwell.com/block/block165.html http://www.libertarianstandard.com/articles/david-j-heinrich/justice-for-all-without-the-state/ http://mises.org/ ........................................................................................................................................... If you want to learn about it.  Also check out the works of Rothbard and Herman-Hoppe.
Thu, 09/16/2010 - 17:32 | 586389 Fearless Rick
Fearless Rick's picture

Zaknick, whoever flagged your post as junk must be either retarded or a gold bug, or both, which is a very likely occurrence. I found the discussion interesting and revealing and especially enjoyed the commentary on "gold-backed currency" delightful.

 

Anybody who thinks gold isn't in a bubble, hasn't done their homework. Simply put, remember Pets.com and the tech mania, and 125% home equity loans? Well, those, "buy gold" and "cash for gold" ads all over the place are telling us the same thing. Looks like a bubble, smells like a bubble, probably is a bubble.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 19:08 | 586637 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

Fascinating article written in a quaint style. Some claim Kennedy was assassinated for trying to give government the power to issue money. I particularly liked the part where the romans dipped their coins in vinegar so that they would have no intrinsic value, no commodity value. Assuming what you say is true, and it seems to me to have the ring of truth, the fact that we do have privately issued money right now is an argument in favor of buying gold for individuals trying to protect their wealth, something that would not be necessary had Kennedy succeeded.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:53 | 585594 Monetize Me Captain
Monetize Me Captain's picture

There is some great insight here that Krieger manages to put in incredible simple terms:

This would then herald the end of the government bond bubble globally (it’s really a fiat currency bubble).

and

but the magicians of mayhem can’t print gold and that is all you need to know. 

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:56 | 585598 hayduke
hayduke's picture

 toathis is right. NO GREAT DEPRESSION 2.0...more like 2.4. ya know with all the revisions and delays of release...

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:13 | 585652 espirit
espirit's picture

beta version?

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:18 | 585669 centerline
centerline's picture

Nah, they are taking their time to get is juuusssttt rigghht!

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:00 | 585818 mikla
mikla's picture

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:53 | 585942 centerline
centerline's picture

That one got me laughing out loud.  Thanks.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:50 | 585782 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Blu ray.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:57 | 585602 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

It's really not either kind of "...flation".

It's just a "much lower standard of living".

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:58 | 585604 Sarah Conner
Sarah Conner's picture

In terms of selling women their fat asses back to them in the form of soap, do you see inflation or deflation?

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:45 | 585756 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

It's a bubbles...

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:53 | 585793 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

You know, we are faced with a demographic crisis of epic proportions throughout the G-7, and no one even talks about inflating the birthrate of the core (and productive) populations in those countries.

There is only one visible secular purpose to life on this planet and that is to pass your genes on to the next generation.

Our consumer society provides us with all the trappings of status in the sexual selection process (Armani suits, Gucci purses, and Porsche sports cars), but these only lead to false sensations of evolutionary fitness unless real reproduction follows. And the essence of cosumerism is to avoid reproduction as it detracts from the continuing (and thus irrational) acquisition of those emblems of fitness for reproduction.

On a very basic level, liposuction is emblematic of the problem.

Now the big question!

Is everyone  out there in ZH land ready for the leader who will shut down the media and advertising propaganda machine that keeps us from reproducing?

Is everyone ready for entertainment that glorifies life choices that involve living for others - monogamous marriage and large families?

And what do we do with the noisy dissenters who want us all to go extinct?

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:58 | 585952 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

nicely said. agree 100%

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:01 | 585959 fiddler_on_the_roof
fiddler_on_the_roof's picture

100 Trillion ^100. Everyone forgets that we live eternally through our children.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:22 | 586007 chistletoe
chistletoe's picture

nonsense.

 

God designed people to be very curious and desirous of the opposite sex

at an age that greatly preceeds the age at which people commonly acquire common sense.

Else we would have become extinct millenia ago.

This whole crisis has been brought on by the realization

that "capitalism" and all of ur culture's ideals

are based on the expectation of perpetual growth; however,

lastely people have realized that our civilization is at or close to

peak population,

peak energy consumption,

peak food production,

and that all of those must go into a decline,

whether handled intellectually and wisely

or out of desperation.

 

We aren't going extinct.

but there are definitely too many of us about ....

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:36 | 586037 bronzie
bronzie's picture

as education level increases, the reproduction rate and belief in religion decreases

so who's reproducing these days?

ignorant people and religious nuts

some future we have

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:49 | 586066 romanko
romanko's picture

immigrants will reproduce for us, problem solved.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 23:50 | 587138 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Like the saying goes...dogs can have babies too.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 17:06 | 586306 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

And what do we do with the noisy dissenters who want us all to go extinct?

We tell them to lead by example.  To help the process along we can produce the Reality TV show called Put Your Ass Where Your Mouth Is.  It works like this:  Population Reduction Believers are required to sign a contract offering themselves for televised culling.  Six lucky winners are selected by lottery.  Now the fun part here is that the studio audience gets to select the method of each individual's culling!  How cool is that?  The studio audience also determines how the earthly remains are disposed of, such as feed for hogs, composting, incineration, etc.  Lots of possibilities here with endless entertainment value.

Hell, I'd watch.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 12:58 | 585605 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

 The problem with dragging out Deflation is that eventually it becomes a lifestyle...

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:00 | 585609 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

"There is a revolution happening in America and it is coming from all sectors and it is being brought to you by people from all walks of life.  My generation has been subject to vicious propaganda and brainwashing since we were born and we are waking up to it.  We are not happy about it and we are going to change this sick system.  Did anyone else find it odd that the media decided to blow up a story about some nut that wanted to burn Korans?"

yuppie analysis.  revolution is not coming from ALL sectors.  the corrupt gov't WS cabal is busy looting america.  its a plus for you to finally realize that your "generation has been brianwashed."  stop voting for koolaid drinkers and liars and "cool" guys 

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:05 | 585624 toathis
toathis's picture

and nothing is going to change. NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

 

The Tea Party is a joke. Co-opted. Watered Down. RUINED!

 

 

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:17 | 585663 Pining for the ...
Pining for the Fjords's picture

Sit, my friend.  Sit and watch over the next 2 years as this whole thing explodes, and then tell me "nothing is going to change".  Everything is going to change, irrevocably.  Either we are mentally prepared, hardened, and ready, or we are not. 

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:53 | 585795 truont
truont's picture

Pining, I think you will find the following article extremely enlightening and useful in your future posts:

http://www.ehow.com/how_2066623_spot-forum-troll.html

 

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:25 | 585882 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

thanks for that link. will save for future use. add:

#6. call names, attack character. never actually contribute value to the discussion. never even mention the issue at hand...

e.g.:

"you've got to be kidding! how long have you been at this, newbie-man? what? did you vote for bush?, probably a gay, jewish, alter-boy molester who burns korans for fun. go back to your basement and play your mario games.

shees. what a clown."

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:20 | 585672 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

the tea party is the spark of revolution

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:21 | 585678 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

on the other hand, cnbc is preparing for an obama worship fest on monday and seeking advice from the squealer howard dean

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:56 | 586085 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You don't have to reply to yourself.  If your comment has not had a reply you can edit your first comment.  (Not that anyone replied... get it?)

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:49 | 585775 Don Smith
Don Smith's picture

The Tea Party is a joke. Co-opted. Watered Down. RUINED!

Unfortunately, this is absolutely correct.  "The Tea Party" has no resemblance to the Tea Party Movement started two years ago.  Sarah Palin needs a ball gag. Or someone to just give her $2MM to exit the limelight ASAP.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:30 | 585897 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

i'd argue that the *real* tea-party is too amorphous to be categorized, trivialized, or discounted so easily.

it has many more faces than the pundits realize, and most 'participants' are quietly letting the silly front-side take on the media, while the back-side quietly loads up.

the tide will not be stopped by a wall of sand. ignore at your peril.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 16:01 | 586105 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

like herding cats. As it should be. Republic allows for, and thrives on this idea.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 16:49 | 586257 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

How exactly has she earned that ball gag Don?  Specifics, please...

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 17:41 | 586413 Red Neck Repugnicant
Red Neck Repugnicant's picture

For starters, watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrzXLYA_e6E&feature=related

If you're unable to acknowledge or recognize the lunacy of Sarah Palin then you probably haven't seen the ball since kickoff.  

I'll go one step further and say McCain should be held accountable politically for attempting a cheap shot at the presidency by selecting Palin as his co-pilot. Bringing Palin to his ticket was no different than Budweiser trying to sell beer using clydesdales. It speaks volumes to the state of politics in America - all show, no substance.

 

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:23 | 586010 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture

@ toathis

 

Is that why its candidates are beating incumbants in the primaries?  Rand Paul ring a bell for you baby face?

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:53 | 586080 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

and nothing is going to change. NOTHING. ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!

Don't come banging on my door when you're starving. 

You'll get a nasty surprise.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 21:19 | 586902 MrPalladium
MrPalladium's picture

+1000  Classic!! Absolute Classic!!

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:03 | 585617 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Mike,

Great take on exactly what I have been saying for months.

The essentials of life, are going to be thru the fricken roof.( and have been, and it's just starting).

No Deflation?......6 months ago, I was saying ( as a retired guy, I do the grocery shopping, etc).

When eggs go for .89dz, to a 1.79dz in less than 30 days, and bread goes up 30%, Milk from 1.89, to nearly 4.00..........that's not deflation dudes.

Why these exceptional rises so fast?.

Look at his Commodity charts.

Those are Main Street products...............

Everyday items we have to have.

Not 65" Flatscreens, or a new 300C, or a Computer, etc,etc.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:32 | 585719 Commander Cody
Commander Cody's picture

And you would think that the banksters would be happy just to steal the wealth from our assets.  Now they are taking the food out of our mouths.  And, we let them do it.  Sad for them, and us.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:35 | 585909 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

+++

then i look at DBA, and wonder WTF... up a little, then scroll back to 2008. $46ish 24-28 range since then...

is this a USO-like scam too?

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:58 | 586095 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Those hedonic adjustments play hell with the actual inflation rates.

http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/p72746.asp

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 16:23 | 586175 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

+

i'm not sure if it's good that folks don't know what's really going on w/ CPI or bad...

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 16:34 | 586210 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

When your government lies to you it is never good.

But I get your point.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:05 | 585621 Da55id
Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:07 | 585625 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

"Did anyone else find it odd that the media decided to blow up a story about some nut that wanted to burn Korans?"

No, I didn't find it odd at all. The "media" has been doing this for years. It's called sensationalism. It sells papers/networks/advertising.

"There is a revolution happening in America and it is coming from all sectors and it is being brought to you by people from all walks of life.  My generation has been subject to vicious propaganda and brainwashing since we were born and we are waking up to it.  We are not happy about it and we are going to change this sick system."

Really? Which generation is it that's "waking up to it"? The one standing in line for three days to buy a new iphone??

 

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:13 | 585651 crosey
crosey's picture

+1 Harry.

I'm surrounded by blind optimists, blind lemmings, and ostriches, across all age groups.

Will it be only the ZH community that will be saved?!

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:46 | 585760 chet
chet's picture

I agree the media is all for distractions, but the recent Islam thing is about the GOP and the election.  Last time it was gay people.  The whole topic magically goes away on November 3rd.

As for people waking up to it, I don't see it without another huge crisis.  Most people are completely unaware of this stuff and/or not versed enough to understand what they're hearing.  They hear "the Fed is on it" and "you need stimulus in a downturn" and have no education to refute it.  They're not dumb, they just don't follow this stuff.

No, another worse crisis will have to occur.  And likely will.  It may take another 5 to 10 years.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:45 | 585924 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

+ chet, i hope you are right, but i'm not so sure this one is going to just go away beyond the election.

whether the issue (islam, iran, n-korea, etc.) has any merit is academic. they need enemies more than ever.

and some of 'em might actually be 'out to get us'. but we'll never know for sure based on the MSM-spinners.

a step further, when you don't have enemies, is to make them. i heard the rational argument the other day, that perhaps our forces in the middle-east aren't there to "foster peace through democracy" or whatever, but rather the keep the hornets pissed.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:15 | 585857 spartan117
spartan117's picture

Don't confuse the tech geeks with the 30 somethings who are also working professionals that are locked, stocked, and loaded up to the gills with heavy metals.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 16:00 | 586100 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

The "media" has been doing this for years. It's called sensationalism. It sells papers/networks/advertising.

Yup, see the Lindbergh baby kidnapping.  Really got out of hand then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindbergh_kidnapping

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:06 | 585626 Segestan
Segestan's picture

All this is true.. but the system hasn't imploded .. Yet!      Hyperinflation coming to .....everyone.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 22:25 | 587008 Terra-Firma
Terra-Firma's picture

Theatrical endings are for entertainment. This situation will not have a Hollywood ending. Up until now the current administration has tried to provide a floor under our collective security. Problem is, the very act of doing so diminishes our collective faith in ourselves and in government. Our market faith hangs by the grace of Ben Bernanke and his arranged stock and bond purchases. Look around, read, listen, think independently without seeking approval - The the system has crashed they are now trying to hit the reset button at a trillion dollars a pop. Pun intended. You can't have governments circle jerking us by buying each others' stocks and bonds through debt, giving illegal insider information to politically connected hedge fund managers and condone blatantly illegal computerized trading and not expect some blow back. This is going to be a long slow grind where individual and collective standards of living and security diminish, mental and social disorders increase and we collectively erode like soapstone under the acidic hydrocarbon drenched rain of the gulf of Mexico. Too bad, did not have to end this way.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:06 | 585627 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

In case no one has notice, the drop in the BDI has been accelerating all week.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:11 | 585641 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

Not that it hasn't been noticed but nobody cares. Unless you're trading soybeans. Soybean prices correlate pretty closely with the BDI. Other than that, pretty meaningless to the overall indices.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:27 | 585700 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

 It's hard to manufacture stuff if they're not shipping the raw materials...

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:35 | 585730 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

Apple just order 1 million more iPad glass screens per month to meet demand. 

Apple is 20% of the Nasdaq and nearly 20% of the SPX. 

Apple has the second largest market cap of any US company.

Apple's stock is up again today and up 240% in a year and a half. 

There's a HUGE difference between the stock market and the economy. Economy is stagnant and BDI is a pretty decent indicator of that. The market is moving thanks to demand for idiotic iGadgets around the world. It's simple math. That's why I'm so perplexed as to why people on this forum can't make that connection.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:42 | 585749 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

The Slow March Towards A Double Dip In 2011

http://www.scribd.com/doc/37527186/Wolfe-Trahan

I doubt that Apple's earnings are going to do much to offset this administration's expenditures...

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:06 | 585805 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

"I doubt that Apple's earnings are going to do much to offset this administration's expenditures..."

I agree 100% with that statement. However, we're still dealing with a behemoth company comprising the second largest chunk of the SPX. If they're still selling a shitload of iGadgets, their stock will continue to go up. Being such an enormous part of the index, it makes big downside moves extremely difficult.

Unless Apple falters somewhere along the line. The stock market is disconnected from the economy with such a big growth stock representing an enormous chunk of the index. It's pretty straight forward.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:05 | 585968 t0mmyBerg
t0mmyBerg's picture

Apple will falter when Steve Jobs becomes terminally ill or dies.  Given his relatively recent brush with mortality and his sickly demeanor that cannot be all that far off in the future.  There may or may not be a further wave immediately thereafter but the shine will then fade as the cult of personality fades.  This is not desirable but I believe this is what will happen. 

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:09 | 585974 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

Can't disagree with that at all. But until then, I'll keep my position with a very tight trailing stop. And when that happens, that's when we'll see the overall markets tank.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:25 | 586015 t0mmyBerg
t0mmyBerg's picture

Fair enough.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:19 | 586001 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Android with its "free" operating system platform for phone manufacturers, this was a game changer that caught microsoft and apple flatfooted. Microsoft blasted google for not putting a price tag on android after 17% market share in 1 year, from a newcomer, whats bill saying now ...

Android continues to grab greater chunks of the U.S. smartphone market while its competitors watch their share shrink or stagnate.

Though still No. 3, Google's Android platform saw its market share climb 5 percentage points to win 17 percent of all U.S. smartphone subscribers for the three months ending in July compared with the prior three months, market researcher ComScore reported yesterday.

Once the cheap ipad spinoffs start to hit the street (with android)in the 4th quarter this will also become a drag. Google will own the portable market within 5 years. I'm not saying apple is a bad company but going forward they will not keep growing at such a crazy pace, no way ...Not in this economy.
"This quarter's growth was driven by smartphones, particularly Android devices," said Francisco Jeronimo, European mobile devices research manager, IDC. "The 15% market share achieved by Android in the quarter is a very important milestone for the less-than-two-year-old Google operating system and shows that the OS is ramping up to become the second biggest operating system as soon as early 2011.
Thu, 09/16/2010 - 22:47 | 587054 Terra-Firma
Terra-Firma's picture

Get real. Apple is a scam built on solid marketing and a novelty design strategy and a visionary entrepreneur. That is not a sustainable competitive advantage. The stuff Apple sells should be free and funded through application purchases. At best Apple is a sitting duck with nothing but good will. Google on the other hand has huge content options plus it's innovation pipeline runs hard. Sorry, I just can't see much of long term upside but I'm open to being convinced otherwise.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:09 | 585636 crosey
crosey's picture

Are there any reputable dealers of REAL silver coins out there?  Suggestions anyone?

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:17 | 585665 justtotaketheedgeoff
justtotaketheedgeoff's picture

apmex.com

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:21 | 585676 Developers
Developers's picture

+1

cheapest premiums i can find online.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:23 | 585689 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Yes, IF YOU BUY MAXIMUM QUANITIES only.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:46 | 585761 Developers
Developers's picture

You've inspired me.  I looked up prices for 100 oz. of 2010 Silver American Eagles.  Spot price of silver was approx $20.74.

APMEX - $22.85  +10.17%

MONEX - $22.68  +9.35%

NWT Mint - $24.03 +15.86%

I've dealt with all 3 companies over the last several years.  APMEX has much better availability.  Had to call MONEX and it seems they rarely have items in stock.  Don't do business with NWT Mint, took me 3 mos. to take delivery of only 3 100 oz. bars of silver.  They also have high premiums on the Eagles.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:04 | 585826 Edmond Dantes
Edmond Dantes's picture

APMEX is THE place to go. Don't even bother with MONEX. That place is a damn scam.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:00 | 585956 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Bullion Direct is also good, plus the Nucleo exchange there is interesting.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:42 | 586050 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Dev,

APMEX is the easiest to deal with,and their shipping/hndling, quicker deliveries make up for the disparity.

I just wish thay had a break on 1oz Gold at 10oz, instead of 20oz.

Makes it difficult to get the best const avg mechanisms.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:18 | 585667 espirit
espirit's picture

Register with the National Inflation Association (NIA), they provide suggestions.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:50 | 585776 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

-1  I would strongly recommend you not "register" with them.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:22 | 585873 Yophat
Yophat's picture

+1 Just google George4Title & fraud

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 17:14 | 586340 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

I'm curious.  Why do you feel that way about the NIA?  I get their newsletter.  Can't get the videos because I'm on dial up. 

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 18:13 | 586504 Yophat
Yophat's picture

Do a little homework on them - individuals behind it!  You'll find long history of F-R-A-U-D!  Pump n' dump!

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 17:26 | 586374 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

I'm curious.  Why do you feel that way about the NIA?  I get their newsletter.  Can't get the videos because I'm on dial up. 

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 00:12 | 587159 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

You don't need to register here is the link:

http://inflation.us/reviews/

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:22 | 585683 HarryWanger
HarryWanger's picture

In the good ol days you could buy it on ebay. I used to buy $50 Gold Eagles in quantities of 10 back when the price was in the upper 300's - low 400's. 

When I needed to cash out some gold last year, I went through Kitco. Sent it registered US Mail and check sent within a couple of weeks.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:03 | 585964 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Still can: http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_nkw=Silver&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=

 

3,137,776 results found for Silver
Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:28 | 585704 crosey
crosey's picture

Thanks all.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 14:11 | 585839 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I do my trades in gold and silver depending on the strenght of the currency.

For example: the dollar just dropped a bit = the american market is good to buy, the European market is good to sell.

Also the coins are NOT only bought for the weight. Also buy coins with a collectors value. If silver of gold would drop big, the coins don't lose value that fast.

I bought for example 20 franc Tunisia gold coins for 185$ 4 months ago, these are now already worth 1000$

The collectors value works as a hedge.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 16:05 | 586114 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I just put 40 ounces of $1 silver eagles in tubes.  Got them on eBay from a very reputable seller and paid average of $22.85 each (free shipping).   Paid by direct credit card to the seller.  Minimum paper trail like that.  I'll buy some more when the boyz knee-cap silver here soon.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 16:15 | 586149 Yes We Can. But...
Yes We Can. But Lets Not.'s picture

For the adventurous, search craigslist nationally, using craiglook.  For example:

http://craiglook.com/sale.html?q=silver+ounce

 

Fri, 09/17/2010 - 00:07 | 587156 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I have heard good things about Gainsville Coins:

http://www.gainesvillecoins.com/

 

Apmex I concur with though.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:11 | 585640 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Deflation MY ASS!

In Belgium the index is up 2.7% already and food prices are rising another 10% the comming months.

I wonder how many companies will be able to afford that in january when the paychecks get adjusted.

There isn't a single company that still has green grass so to speak, and salary increases like that will kill them.

March 2011 will be a masacer!

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:15 | 585658 crosey
crosey's picture

Tell me about your January paycheck adjustment in Belgium.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:30 | 585702 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Every year our wages are adjusted to the consumer index. We don't get to many salary raises but the index is a constant.

This year was the first time in history the index was negative 0,2% and the year before it was 4.7%

If inflation goes up 1%, our salaries increase 1%. It's that simple.

The 1% is a net increase, meaning the brutto increase is X1.19

That's why everybody in my country constantly knows how much the inflation is. They actually post these numbers every month, and we mostly talk about that during coffee.

 

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:46 | 585764 crosey
crosey's picture

Does Belgian law mandate the 1% CPI adjustment?

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 13:51 | 585788 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Yep. And it goes for everything, even if you have to pay alimony for example, that also goes up, pensions, unemployment cheques...

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 15:52 | 586077 romanko
romanko's picture

omg, you guys are set for Quantum-hyperinflation!

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 16:26 | 586180 i.knoknot
i.knoknot's picture

ouch.

and who needs silly hedonic CPI adjustments and manipulations when the increase is guaranteed.

yikes.

Thu, 09/16/2010 - 16:48 | 586251 DosZap
DosZap's picture

SD,

Socialism at it's best eh?.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!