Guest Post: If You Haven’t Bought Any Gold Yet…

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Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:37 | 1477983 GetZeeGold
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The sooner the better.....

 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:55 | 1478134 ratso
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The Eu has been taking lying lessons from Greece.  Unfortunately the Greeks are still much better at lying and getting away with grand theft than anyone else in the EU.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:40 | 1478384 citta vritti
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"All Cretans are liars." Epimenides of Crete. 

 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:49 | 1478424 akak
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And all Keynesians are cretins.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:02 | 1478700 MS7
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All Cretans are liars.

Epimenides is a Cretan

Therefore, Epimenides is a liar.

Therefore all Cretans are honest? No conclusion can be drawn about that. It's doubtful that they are any more or less honest than people in, say, Toledo, Ohio.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:20 | 1478740 Smiddywesson
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Epimenides mispoke, they were in actuality all bankers.  nuf said

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 18:58 | 1478974 caerus
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this riddle was the foundation of Godel's incompleteness theorem...self referential statements...good show

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 01:37 | 1479705 Hook Line and S...
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"All Cretans are liars." Epimenides of Crete. 

This could mean that most Cretans are truthful, except one, Epimenides. 

 

 

 

 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:59 | 1478689 MS7
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G-Pap-- good at lying to the EU? I don't think so. The guy is a puppet of the EU and US. He does whatever they say.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:42 | 1478386 Hacked Economy
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"Firearms and ammunition: Weapons and ammo serve a dual purpose of providing better home security, as well as a reasonable store of value. Unfortunately, they can also serve a third purpose– putting you on some government agency’s radar."

Yep, this is true.

Back in the 1990s, I [legally] purchased a particular firearm here in Calimexifornia, but upon putting it up for sale a few years ago, I learned the hard way (by means of a personal ATF visit to my home) that the CA law had been clandestinely changed after my purchase, making my firearm "illegal" for civilian possession.  It was fully retroactive, meaning there was no "grandfather" provision in the law for current owners.

The agents understood that they had never contacted me or alerted me to the change in the law (since they had the sales paperwork in their files and knew how to reach me), and agreed that I had done nothing warranting charges.  I reluctantly surrendered the firearm and got a nice yellow Receipt of Confiscation in return.

However, now several years later, I just received a notice from the CA DoJ that even though they never notified me of the change in law, and never filed charges at the time of confiscation, my "case" has now been filed as a bonafide "criminal case" due to the "illegal possession of contraband".

So wait...I did nothing wrong, cooperated with the authorities, no charges were ever filed, and I was never notified of anything along the entire way.  And now I've been officially added to the government's files as a criminal???

I will never, ever buy another firearm in CA again...and this has cemented my increased desire to move out of this backwards state.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:51 | 1478667 FeralSerf
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ATF?  The Feds?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:35 | 1478798 RichardENixon
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Prepare for the judge to say something to you along the lines of "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:58 | 1479140 Hedgetard55
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We will ALL be criminalized sooner or later, for thought crime if nothing else. Easier to control you.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:31 | 1479241 Kali
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Ya know, sometimes I wonder if ZH is like the shop keeper in 1984.  Ya think ya found a little refuge and then BAM!, they catch ya naked and unaware of the deceipt.  : ) 

This whole place is a thought crime and we are all in biiiigggg trouble. 

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 00:39 | 1479663 Ag Star
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Wow, I would say that's a lie but it sounds so crazy it has to be true. And they will  spread it 

to the rest of the states.  What happens if a loved-one dies and leaves a firearem with with the rest of 

their possessions in the attic? Is their family now a criminal?

 

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 20:28 | 1483458 Hacked Economy
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Yes, it's definitely true, and get this...the DoJ took my property several years ago...and just NOW in July 2011 got around to mailing me the notice saying the transfer to their own possession has been completed.

And I thought the DMV was slow.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:43 | 1478398 HardlyZero
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Its another "no-fault default".

No country is responsible and everyone pays.

What, me worry ???

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:26 | 1477986 Cognitive Dissonance
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If you haven’t found a safe haven for your savings yet, it’s time to start. Now. No more excuses. A few you could consider:

Love the piece. But let's try to maintain some perspective here. There is no such thing as a 'safe' haven. Just a less 'safe' haven and a more 'safe' haven based upon today's circumstances. Also, in my humble opinion Precious Metals should always be considered a wealth transfer vehicle and not a wealth appreciation vehicle.

Just my two Gold Eagles worth of opinion.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:36 | 1478031 Calculated_Risk
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When it's levered 100:1, leased, loaned, tungsten filled, and all around manipulated to depress the true value. It can be considered a wealth appreciation vehicle.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:59 | 1478114 Popo
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And soon when it's transaction-taxed at 40%, and export taxed at 80% it can be considered a wealth decimation vehicle.

Further depressing the price of gold within the US is extraordinarily simple via taxation.  The only recourse at that point will be stashing or smuggling.  Don't put all your eggs in one basket.   There are no shortage of metals and commodities to fight inflation with.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:06 | 1478202 nope-1004
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Since when do commodities fight inflation?  Commodities simply react to reckless fiat value destruction.

But I love your constant angle, that there is "lots of supply and gold and silver are bad investments".

Well, I put alot of eggs in the basket last fall and am up 50% - or, I should say, the idiot Nice Government Men have consistently ruined the value of those dollars not in Gold or Silver.

Should be fun when the Pan Asian opens.  Sprott also keeps sucking up supply.  Face it, demand is huge.

 

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 00:44 | 1479666 Ag Star
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So true.  When does Pan Asian open? I want to be in position (and i don't mean doggie position).

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:06 | 1478204 akak
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Your transaction "tax" of 40% is approximately 10X too high, and while almost any diabolical move by our increasingly authoritarian government is possible in their war against the precious metals, there is NO export tax of any sort against gold currently in place --- in fact, one can quite legally leave the country with $1,000,000 in gold bullion bars (but NOT coins) without even having to declare it.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 18:32 | 1478922 DoChenRollingBearing
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akak, ol' buddy!

I think you are wrong about exporting over $10,000 of any liquid asset without having to report it.

I have mentioned several times when I took out over $10,000 (of Au Eagles, coin, I will address that in a moment) and I had to fill out the form and have the outbound Customs B-teamer try to trick question me...

I am pretty sure you CANNOT take out $1,000,000 in bullion (or anything "pretty liquid") without declaring it.  The penalties are severe.

You can always check with your LAWYER if you want a better opinion!  LOL...

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:34 | 1479230 akak
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DoChen, I was actually thinking of you when I wrote the above.

I have looked into this topic at some depth, and contacted the US Customs Service as well, and you are in fact (surprisingly!) incorrect --- one CAN indeed leave the country (for now), legally, with ANY reasonable (personal) amount of diamonds, rubies, pearls, or yes, even gold --- as long as that gold does NOT consist of legal tender coins; in that case, the gold would then be considered a "monetary instrument", and would indeed be subject to being declared.  But gold bars, no.  That $10,000 mandatory limit for declaration applies ONLY to cash and other monetary instruments, NOT to any and all possible physical assets or possessions.  Otherwise, my sister would have had her $20,000 string of black pearls confiscated, or at least asked about, every time she came and went into the country with them, but neither of which ever happened .

There does seem to be some ambiguity in the regulations, when it comes to legal tender gold coins, as to whether they need to be declared when their combined face value exceeds $10,000, or merely in the case that their current market value exceeds that amount --- and that may very well have been the situation in which you found yourself.  But had you had your gold in the form of bars, or jewelry, then unless the transport of that gold was part of your business or a commerical enterprise, there would have been absolutely no legal requirement to have to declare them --- and the US Customs website is very clear and specific on this matter.

 

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 00:50 | 1479668 Ag Star
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That's right. You can take $10,000 onto a plane w/o any problem, and it can be 10,000  one oz silver eagles that would currently be valued at approx $38,000.  You can sell gold and silver in any country.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:56 | 1478684 Calculated_Risk
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and it can be dug out of the ground for $5 too right?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:03 | 1478142 Cognitive Dissonance
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CR,

I didn't say it would not appreciate. In fact it most likely will. My comment was article specific and on topic.

When considering "safe havens" one shouldn't be thinking about appreciation of your wealth, but rather about transfer of your wealth into the future.....which is exactly the reason for a safe haven. Actually a 'safe haven" implies the transfer of exactly the same value into the future. So if fiat declines, the 'value' of PMs will most likely go up measured in fiat, thus transferring it's wealth and value into the future. It may feel like it has appreciated, but only in fiat terms.

Another way of looking at it is this. Ultimately I want the return of my wealth rather than a return on my wealth. One is about transferring your wealth to the future, the other is about trying to grow your wealth for the future. One this thinking about preservation, the other about risk and reward.

It all comes down to our motives for purchasing PMs. After all, what is the difference between weak and strong hands?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:14 | 1478231 DosZap
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CD,

Ditto's.

As Will Rogers stated; "I am more concerned with the return OF my money, than a return ON it".

Paraphrased, but you said the same thing.............

Like always, PM's are/can be an investment, Gold is more for  insurance.

As for the guy who said all eggs not in one basket. True, but name some that you can get without holding paper for those eggs, and being taxed out of ownership.

Static investments(land), you cannot move.

Also,SM states land for food growth.In the US, farmland has now been brought under control of multiple Govt Agencies.

Not just the large ones, ALL rural farmland.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:14 | 1478255 hbjork1
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Farm land.  It is productive for those who want to WORK it.  And it is relative easy to defend ownership of.

 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:16 | 1478257 hbjork1
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Duplicate.

 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:55 | 1478681 Calculated_Risk
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Didn't say you were off topic. And you gave the opinion..

"Precious Metals should always be considered a wealth transfer"

"always" implies a scope outside of safe havens.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 18:16 | 1478863 Cognitive Dissonance
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Come on CR. You are not happy when people take your words out of context. My words were presented in the context of safe haven.

Love the piece. But let's try to maintain some perspective here. There is no such thing as a 'safe' haven. Just a less 'safe' haven and a more 'safe' haven based upon today's circumstances. Also, in my humble opinion Precious Metals should always be considered a wealth transfer vehicle and not a wealth appreciation vehicle.

Separate my words from the body of the text and "always" can mean exactly what you said. But it was part of the same paragraph that began by me saying we should keep 'safe haven' in perspective. And the quote I pulled from the article included the words safe haven. And my intent was in relationship to safe haven. Could I have been more careful in making the connection? Yes, absolutely.

Here is what I should have said.

Also, in my humble opinion, when buying Precious Metals as a safe haven, they should always be considered a wealth transfer vehicle and not a wealth appreciation vehicle.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:37 | 1478035 Global Hunter
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you're right there's no such thing as safe. It depends on the individual situation as well.  We have just bought a small house in the country after renting in the city our whole lives.  The property value on paper could go down 50% but I'd prefer that than living in a crowded city in an inflationary environment for less and less pay.  Other side of the coin somebody considering a variable rate long term mortgage on a big house in the city might want to reconsider that.  

Personally I'm going to be learning a trade this September, I want to prepare any way I can and am scrambling to get some practical skills and experience before all hell breaks loose, I don't think my awesome office skills are going to be earning me any money for the foreseeable future.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:39 | 1478049 Global Hunter
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oh and get tight with your family and close friends and maintain those relationships that my humble advice.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:02 | 1478180 Bang Dae Ho
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GH, I could have written exactly the same. Highly appreciated, confirmed and seconded.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:43 | 1478070 cougar_w
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There is also "safe" as in proof against inflation or manipulation, and "safe" as in secured against theft. And even "safe" as a synonym for "sensible" meaning something that will sustain you.

Things that make good investment sense are sometimes less sensible as a practical matter, the old "you can't eat gold" canard. Land makes a lot of sense and is secured from theft (if you discount eminent domain and mob takeover) but you cannot take it with you if you have to flee in a crisis.

PM are easy to trasport and make good monetary sense, but might not prove practical when the most valuable commodity is clean water or land. And no, I won't sell someone my land, I'll wait for them to starve to death and then just take their gold in the off chance it's ever valuable. If you follow my meaning.

The definition of "safe" depends on how far down the rabbit hole the crisis takes us. At first, PM will be attractive. But then supplies and commodities will be. And then when the wheels fall off everyone will want guns. But after all the shooting is over, people will need land and food, and shelter against winter. And after that, skills will be in short supply; everything from carpenters to midwifes to tailors will be in great demand.

What we are each hedging against is how badly it goes bad. How many wheels really come off. How quickly it all happens. What people do when it does.

It's a moving target and the victory -- however Pyrrhic -- will probably go to the nimble.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:54 | 1478128 Global Hunter
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Very well put Cougar_w

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 18:36 | 1478933 DoChenRollingBearing
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+ 2 above comments

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:06 | 1478196 Silver Dreamer
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"Fortuna Favet Paratus" is the preppers motto for a reason.  8-)

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:18 | 1478552 DosZap
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SD,

si vis pacem, para bellum.

So is this.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:49 | 1478658 Rodent Freikorps
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Dominus tecum

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:30 | 1478326 ElvisDog
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Land makes a lot of sense and is secured from theft (if you discount eminent domain and mob takeover) but you cannot take it with you

I would argue that land is most particularly not a safe investment, unless you are one of TPTB, for the very reason that it's neither portable nor concealable. If you have a productive piece of farmland, what is to stop a government or local warlord from taking it from you? Nothing. And no amount of guns and ammo you possess will stop that from happening because there will always be more of "them" than there are of "you".

Great example - read what happened in England after the Norman invasion. All those English landholder had legal title to their land. Didn't stop the Norman lords from taking most of it.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:20 | 1478558 DosZap
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ED,

Do not leave out one of the most important..............Taxation.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:48 | 1478089 Reptil
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+1

Without a functional transfer it's useless on the "moment suprème". For gold as transfer vehicle, I'm not that worried. The worse it gets the more it's in demand. Governments... yes, that could be a problem. The internet. Yes, potential problems there. Buying, selling and gold should be part of an "exit plan".

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:21 | 1478288 DosZap
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Reptil.

Govts,could be a problem?.

They are the problem.

We would not be in this mess to begin with, if it were not for them.

Of anything that could/will/come our way, I fear them the most.

As Mao said, "All political power comes from the end of a gun".

Who' is holding the trump card?.

Not us,and esp not here.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:59 | 1478166 Eagle1
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CD

I could not agree more with your comment. We live in Alaska and will be a long way from the golden hoards but it is not perfect. The supply chain is long and fragile. Still, I would rather be here than in most places "Outside" as we say up here. Just bought a UNIMOG last weekend as the ultimate bug out vehicle should it get to that.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:06 | 1478206 Cognitive Dissonance
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That also might work in Manhattan traffic when the bug out starts. :>)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unimog

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 23:42 | 1479617 Manthong
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Um.. If you live in Alaska, where do you plan to bug out to?

More people live within a 20 mile radius of me than in your whole state.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:28 | 1478779 Smiddywesson
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Also, in my humble opinion Precious Metals should always be considered a wealth transfer vehicle and not a wealth appreciation vehicle.

"Always?"  Generally CD I would agree, but maybe a once in a century event should fall outside the realm of always.  Maybe the biggest fiancial meltdown in world history should be exempted from "always." 

When the banksters have their backs against the wall because they are bankrupt, AND an opportunity to own everything arises, they are guaranteed to always take it.  That's the always I see in this situation.  In end game, they will hold all the gold, and there is nothing to stop them from inflating the price of gold to get out of bankruptcy and buy up everything.

The only always I believe in anymore is the banksters always win. 

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