This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Guest Post: If You Haven’t Bought Any Gold Yet…

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Simon Black of Sovereign Man

If You Haven’t Bought Any Gold Yet…

Print. Lie. Borrow. Deceive. Deny. These are a the principal tenants
of the Greek restructuring plan that were released today from Brussels…
it’s as if EU policymakers put it together after shaking a Magic

The whole world knows that Greece is bankrupt and has been living
bailout to bailout for over a year. Deep in debt and devoid of cash, the
country has completely forsaken its sovereignty in exchange for
becoming a ward of the European Union; Prime Minister George Papandreou
is now a hapless stooge awaiting instructions from Germany.

It’s ironic that the Greek proposal released today calls for a
‘Marshall Plan’ of investment across Europe… given that the last time
Greece was being controlled by Germany was during the country’s
occupation by Nazi forces after being vanquished by Hitler’s 12th Army
in April 1941.

And so, with limited debate and even less fanfare, Europe has just
officially signed on to destroy its own currency. Utterly worthless,
quasi-defaulted Greek debt will become perfectly acceptable collateral,
much in the same way that the US Federal Reserve took every scrap of
toxic paper it could find off banks in 2008 and 2009.

Given the favorable market reaction, European politicians must be
feeling pretty proud of themselves. The euro is up. The stock market is
up. Oil is up. Well, never mind about oil, they’ll blame that on evil
speculators… just like food prices.

And the proposal is so deliberately vague, they can go back home and
tell constituents whatever they want. Angela Merkel can tell German
voters that the French are paying for it, and Sarkozy and tell French
voters that the Germans are paying for it. Win, win!

The European sovereign default SOP has just been set. When Spain,
Italy, Portugal, and Ireland’s time of insolvency arrives, it will be
handled just like this: Print. Lie. Borrow. Deceive. Deny.

Every day it becomes more and more obvious that the financial system
as we know it is breaking down. The United States and European monetary
union, whose currencies comprise nearly the entirety of the world’s fiat
reserves, have both signed up to debase their currencies as rapidly as

This is going to kick inflation up another notch as anyone holding on
to Greek debt is going to trade out of it as quickly as possible. All
that money has to go somewhere… and it’s a sure bet that a lot of it
will feed rising commodities price (which translates into more

If you haven’t found a safe haven for your savings yet, it’s time to start. Now. No more excuses. A few you could consider:

Swiss franc, Norwegian krone, Singapore dollar, Chilean peso: These
four currencies are generally regarded as safer, stronger, and managed
by less obtuse central banks. In a world of fiat, these are among the
least worst of the bunch.

Unidad de Fomento (UF): This is a special unit of account used in
Chile that was set up during the hyperinflation days of the 1960s. The
UF is designed to keep pace with inflation and it’s possible to
establish a bank account denominated in UF in Chile. I’ll be telling SMC members how to do that in an upcoming issue.

Agricultural Property: Nothing hedges your risk against rising food
prices like being able to produce your own food. This idea underpins the
concept for the resilient community we’re planning in South America.

Precious Metals: Portable, divisible, durable, and scarce, precious
metals are the classic hedge against rising prices. Gold and silver
aren’t going to go up in a straight line, and gold in particular is due
for a correction, but in a world ruled by an economic magic 8-ball, it’s
a much safer store of value than a government IOU.

High quality equities: If my only two options are Apple stock and a
bank account earning 0% interest, I’m going with Steve Jobs. The chief
problem with equities is that the more money that central banks print,
the more money flows into equities… pushing valuations up to dizzying
(and unsustainable) levels.

Firearms and ammunition: Weapons and ammo serve a dual purpose of
providing better home security, as well as a reasonable store of value.
Unfortunately, they can also serve a third purpose– putting you on some
government agency’s radar.

This list is by no means exhaustive… but if you have the majority of
your savings just sitting there wasting away, it’s time to act.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:37 | 1477983 GetZeeGold
GetZeeGold's picture


The sooner the better.....


Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:55 | 1478134 ratso
ratso's picture

The Eu has been taking lying lessons from Greece.  Unfortunately the Greeks are still much better at lying and getting away with grand theft than anyone else in the EU.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:40 | 1478384 citta vritti
citta vritti's picture

"All Cretans are liars." Epimenides of Crete. 


Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:49 | 1478424 akak
akak's picture

And all Keynesians are cretins.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:02 | 1478700 MS7
MS7's picture

All Cretans are liars.

Epimenides is a Cretan

Therefore, Epimenides is a liar.

Therefore all Cretans are honest? No conclusion can be drawn about that. It's doubtful that they are any more or less honest than people in, say, Toledo, Ohio.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:20 | 1478740 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Epimenides mispoke, they were in actuality all bankers.  nuf said

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 18:58 | 1478974 caerus
caerus's picture

this riddle was the foundation of Godel's incompleteness theorem...self referential statements...good show

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 01:37 | 1479705 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

"All Cretans are liars." Epimenides of Crete. 

This could mean that most Cretans are truthful, except one, Epimenides. 





Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:59 | 1478689 MS7
MS7's picture

G-Pap-- good at lying to the EU? I don't think so. The guy is a puppet of the EU and US. He does whatever they say.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:42 | 1478386 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

"Firearms and ammunition: Weapons and ammo serve a dual purpose of providing better home security, as well as a reasonable store of value. Unfortunately, they can also serve a third purpose– putting you on some government agency’s radar."

Yep, this is true.

Back in the 1990s, I [legally] purchased a particular firearm here in Calimexifornia, but upon putting it up for sale a few years ago, I learned the hard way (by means of a personal ATF visit to my home) that the CA law had been clandestinely changed after my purchase, making my firearm "illegal" for civilian possession.  It was fully retroactive, meaning there was no "grandfather" provision in the law for current owners.

The agents understood that they had never contacted me or alerted me to the change in the law (since they had the sales paperwork in their files and knew how to reach me), and agreed that I had done nothing warranting charges.  I reluctantly surrendered the firearm and got a nice yellow Receipt of Confiscation in return.

However, now several years later, I just received a notice from the CA DoJ that even though they never notified me of the change in law, and never filed charges at the time of confiscation, my "case" has now been filed as a bonafide "criminal case" due to the "illegal possession of contraband".

So wait...I did nothing wrong, cooperated with the authorities, no charges were ever filed, and I was never notified of anything along the entire way.  And now I've been officially added to the government's files as a criminal???

I will never, ever buy another firearm in CA again...and this has cemented my increased desire to move out of this backwards state.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:51 | 1478667 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

ATF?  The Feds?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:35 | 1478798 RichardENixon
RichardENixon's picture

Prepare for the judge to say something to you along the lines of "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 19:58 | 1479140 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

We will ALL be criminalized sooner or later, for thought crime if nothing else. Easier to control you.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:31 | 1479241 Kali
Kali's picture

Ya know, sometimes I wonder if ZH is like the shop keeper in 1984.  Ya think ya found a little refuge and then BAM!, they catch ya naked and unaware of the deceipt.  : ) 

This whole place is a thought crime and we are all in biiiigggg trouble. 

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 00:39 | 1479663 Ag Star
Ag Star's picture

Wow, I would say that's a lie but it sounds so crazy it has to be true. And they will  spread it 

to the rest of the states.  What happens if a loved-one dies and leaves a firearem with with the rest of 

their possessions in the attic? Is their family now a criminal?


Fri, 07/22/2011 - 20:28 | 1483458 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Yes, it's definitely true, and get this...the DoJ took my property several years ago...and just NOW in July 2011 got around to mailing me the notice saying the transfer to their own possession has been completed.

And I thought the DMV was slow.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:43 | 1478398 HardlyZero
HardlyZero's picture

Its another "no-fault default".

No country is responsible and everyone pays.

What, me worry ???

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:26 | 1477986 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

If you haven’t found a safe haven for your savings yet, it’s time to start. Now. No more excuses. A few you could consider:

Love the piece. But let's try to maintain some perspective here. There is no such thing as a 'safe' haven. Just a less 'safe' haven and a more 'safe' haven based upon today's circumstances. Also, in my humble opinion Precious Metals should always be considered a wealth transfer vehicle and not a wealth appreciation vehicle.

Just my two Gold Eagles worth of opinion.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:36 | 1478031 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture

When it's levered 100:1, leased, loaned, tungsten filled, and all around manipulated to depress the true value. It can be considered a wealth appreciation vehicle.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:59 | 1478114 Popo
Popo's picture

And soon when it's transaction-taxed at 40%, and export taxed at 80% it can be considered a wealth decimation vehicle.

Further depressing the price of gold within the US is extraordinarily simple via taxation.  The only recourse at that point will be stashing or smuggling.  Don't put all your eggs in one basket.   There are no shortage of metals and commodities to fight inflation with.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:06 | 1478202 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

Since when do commodities fight inflation?  Commodities simply react to reckless fiat value destruction.

But I love your constant angle, that there is "lots of supply and gold and silver are bad investments".

Well, I put alot of eggs in the basket last fall and am up 50% - or, I should say, the idiot Nice Government Men have consistently ruined the value of those dollars not in Gold or Silver.

Should be fun when the Pan Asian opens.  Sprott also keeps sucking up supply.  Face it, demand is huge.


Fri, 07/22/2011 - 00:44 | 1479666 Ag Star
Ag Star's picture

So true.  When does Pan Asian open? I want to be in position (and i don't mean doggie position).

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:06 | 1478204 akak
akak's picture

Your transaction "tax" of 40% is approximately 10X too high, and while almost any diabolical move by our increasingly authoritarian government is possible in their war against the precious metals, there is NO export tax of any sort against gold currently in place --- in fact, one can quite legally leave the country with $1,000,000 in gold bullion bars (but NOT coins) without even having to declare it.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 18:32 | 1478922 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

akak, ol' buddy!

I think you are wrong about exporting over $10,000 of any liquid asset without having to report it.

I have mentioned several times when I took out over $10,000 (of Au Eagles, coin, I will address that in a moment) and I had to fill out the form and have the outbound Customs B-teamer try to trick question me...

I am pretty sure you CANNOT take out $1,000,000 in bullion (or anything "pretty liquid") without declaring it.  The penalties are severe.

You can always check with your LAWYER if you want a better opinion!  LOL...

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 20:34 | 1479230 akak
akak's picture

DoChen, I was actually thinking of you when I wrote the above.

I have looked into this topic at some depth, and contacted the US Customs Service as well, and you are in fact (surprisingly!) incorrect --- one CAN indeed leave the country (for now), legally, with ANY reasonable (personal) amount of diamonds, rubies, pearls, or yes, even gold --- as long as that gold does NOT consist of legal tender coins; in that case, the gold would then be considered a "monetary instrument", and would indeed be subject to being declared.  But gold bars, no.  That $10,000 mandatory limit for declaration applies ONLY to cash and other monetary instruments, NOT to any and all possible physical assets or possessions.  Otherwise, my sister would have had her $20,000 string of black pearls confiscated, or at least asked about, every time she came and went into the country with them, but neither of which ever happened .

There does seem to be some ambiguity in the regulations, when it comes to legal tender gold coins, as to whether they need to be declared when their combined face value exceeds $10,000, or merely in the case that their current market value exceeds that amount --- and that may very well have been the situation in which you found yourself.  But had you had your gold in the form of bars, or jewelry, then unless the transport of that gold was part of your business or a commerical enterprise, there would have been absolutely no legal requirement to have to declare them --- and the US Customs website is very clear and specific on this matter.


Fri, 07/22/2011 - 00:50 | 1479668 Ag Star
Ag Star's picture

That's right. You can take $10,000 onto a plane w/o any problem, and it can be 10,000  one oz silver eagles that would currently be valued at approx $38,000.  You can sell gold and silver in any country.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:56 | 1478684 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture

and it can be dug out of the ground for $5 too right?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:03 | 1478142 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture


I didn't say it would not appreciate. In fact it most likely will. My comment was article specific and on topic.

When considering "safe havens" one shouldn't be thinking about appreciation of your wealth, but rather about transfer of your wealth into the future.....which is exactly the reason for a safe haven. Actually a 'safe haven" implies the transfer of exactly the same value into the future. So if fiat declines, the 'value' of PMs will most likely go up measured in fiat, thus transferring it's wealth and value into the future. It may feel like it has appreciated, but only in fiat terms.

Another way of looking at it is this. Ultimately I want the return of my wealth rather than a return on my wealth. One is about transferring your wealth to the future, the other is about trying to grow your wealth for the future. One this thinking about preservation, the other about risk and reward.

It all comes down to our motives for purchasing PMs. After all, what is the difference between weak and strong hands?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:14 | 1478231 DosZap
DosZap's picture



As Will Rogers stated; "I am more concerned with the return OF my money, than a return ON it".

Paraphrased, but you said the same thing.............

Like always, PM's are/can be an investment, Gold is more for  insurance.

As for the guy who said all eggs not in one basket. True, but name some that you can get without holding paper for those eggs, and being taxed out of ownership.

Static investments(land), you cannot move.

Also,SM states land for food growth.In the US, farmland has now been brought under control of multiple Govt Agencies.

Not just the large ones, ALL rural farmland.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:14 | 1478255 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture

Farm land.  It is productive for those who want to WORK it.  And it is relative easy to defend ownership of.


Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:16 | 1478257 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture



Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:55 | 1478681 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture

Didn't say you were off topic. And you gave the opinion..

"Precious Metals should always be considered a wealth transfer"

"always" implies a scope outside of safe havens.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 18:16 | 1478863 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Come on CR. You are not happy when people take your words out of context. My words were presented in the context of safe haven.

Love the piece. But let's try to maintain some perspective here. There is no such thing as a 'safe' haven. Just a less 'safe' haven and a more 'safe' haven based upon today's circumstances. Also, in my humble opinion Precious Metals should always be considered a wealth transfer vehicle and not a wealth appreciation vehicle.

Separate my words from the body of the text and "always" can mean exactly what you said. But it was part of the same paragraph that began by me saying we should keep 'safe haven' in perspective. And the quote I pulled from the article included the words safe haven. And my intent was in relationship to safe haven. Could I have been more careful in making the connection? Yes, absolutely.

Here is what I should have said.

Also, in my humble opinion, when buying Precious Metals as a safe haven, they should always be considered a wealth transfer vehicle and not a wealth appreciation vehicle.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:37 | 1478035 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

you're right there's no such thing as safe. It depends on the individual situation as well.  We have just bought a small house in the country after renting in the city our whole lives.  The property value on paper could go down 50% but I'd prefer that than living in a crowded city in an inflationary environment for less and less pay.  Other side of the coin somebody considering a variable rate long term mortgage on a big house in the city might want to reconsider that.  

Personally I'm going to be learning a trade this September, I want to prepare any way I can and am scrambling to get some practical skills and experience before all hell breaks loose, I don't think my awesome office skills are going to be earning me any money for the foreseeable future.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:39 | 1478049 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

oh and get tight with your family and close friends and maintain those relationships that my humble advice.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:02 | 1478180 Bang Dae Ho
Bang Dae Ho's picture

GH, I could have written exactly the same. Highly appreciated, confirmed and seconded.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:43 | 1478070 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

There is also "safe" as in proof against inflation or manipulation, and "safe" as in secured against theft. And even "safe" as a synonym for "sensible" meaning something that will sustain you.

Things that make good investment sense are sometimes less sensible as a practical matter, the old "you can't eat gold" canard. Land makes a lot of sense and is secured from theft (if you discount eminent domain and mob takeover) but you cannot take it with you if you have to flee in a crisis.

PM are easy to trasport and make good monetary sense, but might not prove practical when the most valuable commodity is clean water or land. And no, I won't sell someone my land, I'll wait for them to starve to death and then just take their gold in the off chance it's ever valuable. If you follow my meaning.

The definition of "safe" depends on how far down the rabbit hole the crisis takes us. At first, PM will be attractive. But then supplies and commodities will be. And then when the wheels fall off everyone will want guns. But after all the shooting is over, people will need land and food, and shelter against winter. And after that, skills will be in short supply; everything from carpenters to midwifes to tailors will be in great demand.

What we are each hedging against is how badly it goes bad. How many wheels really come off. How quickly it all happens. What people do when it does.

It's a moving target and the victory -- however Pyrrhic -- will probably go to the nimble.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:54 | 1478128 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Very well put Cougar_w

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 18:36 | 1478933 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 2 above comments

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:06 | 1478196 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

"Fortuna Favet Paratus" is the preppers motto for a reason.  8-)

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:18 | 1478552 DosZap
DosZap's picture


si vis pacem, para bellum.

So is this.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:49 | 1478658 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Dominus tecum

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:30 | 1478326 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Land makes a lot of sense and is secured from theft (if you discount eminent domain and mob takeover) but you cannot take it with you

I would argue that land is most particularly not a safe investment, unless you are one of TPTB, for the very reason that it's neither portable nor concealable. If you have a productive piece of farmland, what is to stop a government or local warlord from taking it from you? Nothing. And no amount of guns and ammo you possess will stop that from happening because there will always be more of "them" than there are of "you".

Great example - read what happened in England after the Norman invasion. All those English landholder had legal title to their land. Didn't stop the Norman lords from taking most of it.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:20 | 1478558 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Do not leave out one of the most important..............Taxation.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:48 | 1478089 Reptil
Reptil's picture


Without a functional transfer it's useless on the "moment suprème". For gold as transfer vehicle, I'm not that worried. The worse it gets the more it's in demand. Governments... yes, that could be a problem. The internet. Yes, potential problems there. Buying, selling and gold should be part of an "exit plan".

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:21 | 1478288 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Govts,could be a problem?.

They are the problem.

We would not be in this mess to begin with, if it were not for them.

Of anything that could/will/come our way, I fear them the most.

As Mao said, "All political power comes from the end of a gun".

Who' is holding the trump card?.

Not us,and esp not here.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:59 | 1478166 Eagle1
Eagle1's picture


I could not agree more with your comment. We live in Alaska and will be a long way from the golden hoards but it is not perfect. The supply chain is long and fragile. Still, I would rather be here than in most places "Outside" as we say up here. Just bought a UNIMOG last weekend as the ultimate bug out vehicle should it get to that.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:06 | 1478206 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

That also might work in Manhattan traffic when the bug out starts. :>)

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 23:42 | 1479617 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Um.. If you live in Alaska, where do you plan to bug out to?

More people live within a 20 mile radius of me than in your whole state.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:28 | 1478779 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Also, in my humble opinion Precious Metals should always be considered a wealth transfer vehicle and not a wealth appreciation vehicle.

"Always?"  Generally CD I would agree, but maybe a once in a century event should fall outside the realm of always.  Maybe the biggest fiancial meltdown in world history should be exempted from "always." 

When the banksters have their backs against the wall because they are bankrupt, AND an opportunity to own everything arises, they are guaranteed to always take it.  That's the always I see in this situation.  In end game, they will hold all the gold, and there is nothing to stop them from inflating the price of gold to get out of bankruptcy and buy up everything.

The only always I believe in anymore is the banksters always win. 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 18:14 | 1478889 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

In relationship to if you are purchasing Gold as a safe haven, yes, always. I was speaking in context of safe haven. I should have been more clear on this matter. I thought it was obvious I was talking about safe haven, but clearly it was not.

Would or could you purchase Gold for other reasons? Yes, of course. In that case, you would not be buying it for a safe haven. I've seen many people buy Gold with the stated purpose of "safe haven". They it goes up in fiat dollars and suddenly it is an 'investment'. Then if it goes down in fiat dollars they are not seeing the Gold as a safe haven, but as an investment and they lose sleep over their Gold. It is not a safe haven anymore and never really was.

If it is bought as an honest safe haven with that honest intent, whatever it does in relationship to fiat is immaterial since it is not an investment, but safe haven. The intent behind your actions always drives how you feel about your actions, even if you don't wish to look that deeply or admit it.

Here is what I should have said.

Also, in my humble opinion, when buying Precious Metals as a safe haven, they should always be considered a wealth transfer vehicle and not a wealth appreciation vehicle.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 18:23 | 1478908 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

Until they win a long-overdue date with Karma. Cuz as they say, she's a bitch.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:25 | 1477987 cat2
cat2's picture

G O L D   B I T C H E Z

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:28 | 1477993 wsmith
wsmith's picture

I'm probably crazy.

But I still see deflation in the future.

Printing money and throwing it into a blackhole of debt doesn't equal velocity.

But what the fuck do I know?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:46 | 1478080 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yea, big deflation in what you own, what you need to buy is going up though.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:49 | 1478095 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Either way the fiat collapses. Do you really think in a collapse the dollar bill will get more valuable?

How many governments over time have allowed a deflationary collapse v. a hyperinflationary one?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:14 | 1478250 akak
akak's picture

The closest to a true "deflationary collapse" that has ever occurred was the period of 1929-1933 in the USA, when the general price level fell by ~30%.  And that was under a gold standard, and notable for being so historically rare.  Set that occurence against the literally hundreds of extreme inflations and hyperinflations of just the last century (the benighted so-called "Golden Age of Fiat Currency"), and it is patently obvious that actual deflation is to be feared about as much as an alien abduction after sighting Bigfoot being pursued by Elvis.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:29 | 1478591 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I think it interesting that deflation is a non-event, unless one is up to the ears in debt.   That's why the Fed fears deflation so much.   For those who are truly solvent, deflation is a fine turn of events!

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 10:47 | 1480633 Anonymau5
Anonymau5's picture

exactly.  It only hurts the supply side by transfering bargaining power back to customers/consumers.  An empowered demand base?  We can't have that.

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 11:04 | 1484564 Doyle Hargraves
Doyle Hargraves's picture

When have we ever heard someone say, oh no you mean my dollars will buy me more goods and services, I hate this deflation crap! As noted deflation only hurts debtors and sound money makes deflation a constant and living standards rise exponentially!

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:28 | 1477995 Transitory Disi...
Transitory Disinflation's picture

Use a credit card and max out on Gold?

Get more credit cards and buy more Gold?

I read once that you can chew gum to fool the body into thinking it has eaten, why not eat the Gold in shavings and then recycle it..... maybe it would go in @ 1550 p/oz and come out worth more?  Who knows iDunno.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:30 | 1478001 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

Good stuff.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:37 | 1478036 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

This is fricking great stuff:

"Prime Minister George Papandreou is now a hapless stooge awaiting instructions from Germany."

I commented on this fact elsewhere on ZH today, but it bears repeating: the single most delicious aspect of this crisis is the destruction of the credibility of the political class.  I am savoring every moment of it.  It is fantastic, and I am glad I have lived to (finally) see it.  The paradigm of the managed economy is being broken before our eyes.  It's truly a great moment in history.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:42 | 1478062 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Is it a warm up for weeping public apologies and people on their knees begging for mercy? If so I'm breaking out the chips and am going to sit back and take every moment of it in.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:52 | 1478121 Segestan
Segestan's picture

"Prime Minister George Papandreou is now a hapless stooge awaiting instructions from Germany."

 More like Greece has a gun to Germany's head.... blackmail.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:12 | 1478225 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Greece has fallen off a cliff, and Germany is of course attached via the Euro.  Self-preservation requires it to act.  We all know of course that it will not help however.  All of Europe is about to be pulled down to their economic death.  I wonder how much China will step in to help however.  As a prepper, I can sit back and watch comfortably at least--I do not welcome a collapse but certainly see the greatest collapse of all recorded history coming of course.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:27 | 1478321 Segestan
Segestan's picture

Agreed. I see China setting on a mountain of Gold, a police state, with a giant manufacturing base. The  west will come as beggars, the liberal west is screwed.  Sadly , to me at least, we will see an age of the  Asian Tiger. African resources will belong to Asia. That is of course assuming a war with Iran does not set off WWIII.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:37 | 1478365 caerus
caerus's picture

agreed, to a point...China still has a water problem and a huge need for commodities (agricultural and otherwise)...if they can't satisfy the growing needs of their huge population, the result will be civil unrest...nevermind their atrocious human rights record (tiananmen square anyone?)...if the west were smart we would become China's "breadbasket" so to speak...but then what do i know

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:03 | 1478490 Segestan
Segestan's picture

Water is a short term problem from huge growth rates. Russia has lots of water , china could purchase whole lakes of water. Chinese industry will over come water.

  The Rise of the Huns will not be the all utopian world the western dreamers think.


Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:38 | 1478804 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

We can all give up on the pipe dream that there will not be war.  There are always trade wars and then real wars when this happens.  We have a global economy now, that makes war more probable, not less.  And please don't retreat to the fable that war won't come because it will destroy our economies, that was the party line for why Germany would never fight with France right up to the start of WWI.  There will be war.

So, forget overpopulation, peak oil, waning sources of fresh water, and the breakdown of the food supply.  Forget the New World Order.  The problem will take care of itself.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:07 | 1478715 MS7
MS7's picture

G-Pap with a gun? I think not. (I must say, though, much as I despise him, he did have a moment of bravery as a youngster when the Junta was after his dad...) I don't follow the economics of this latest twist, but G-Pap is definitely a puppet and does as Germany tells him, unless the US wants something different. Then G-Pap gets confused and has to take aspirin.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:30 | 1478002 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

"If You Haven’t Bought Any Gold Yet…"

... then get yourself a tack hammer and bang away at your temple cause you have a chronic case of stupidity.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:33 | 1478017 BeerWhisperer
BeerWhisperer's picture

Don't forget the most important part. You have to completely ignore the bull market taking place and keep telling yourself that the economy is going to collapse... That way you get through the times when gold drops back to 1000/oz...

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:38 | 1478045 Tortfeasor
Tortfeasor's picture

I'll bet you the following: in 1 year from now, 1 oz of gold will have appreciated more than the S&P 500, in dollar terms.  

Right now 1 oz of gold is worth about 11.78 shares of SPY.  Let's call it 12.  If I win, you buy me 1 gold eagle.  You win, I'll buy you 12 shares of SPY.  Deal?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:50 | 1478097 the left behinds
the left behinds's picture

HEY remember these commercials?:   Was that one smart individual, or a GS type scumbag?



Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:57 | 1478147 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I do indeed remember those commercials.  I now use the TV as a contrarian indicator.  Whatever the hell they are advertising or throwing into our faces I will NOT buy. 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:38 | 1478046 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

Spoken by one who is clearly well versed in the art of ignoring things.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:46 | 1478082 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture


You're on notice! Man, I hope you're right on w/ that $1000 call, for your sake not mine.

Cause I'll Be Smilin' & Dip Buyin'

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:48 | 1478092 BeerWhisperer
BeerWhisperer's picture

It just baffles me how long you can keep thinking the sky is falling when it is not! I completely understand that markets are most likely rigged to the banks and others through B.S. manipulation. But I also understand that they could give two shits less wether you know or not.

I've learned after watching the markets, economic indicators, and digesting a lot of good information that zerohedge pumps out. But Jesus H. Christ, most people posting comments on here have been talking about how much everything is going to tank for over a year and half! Meanwhile, the bernanke has been flipping you the bird and the markets are recovering (regardless if it is manipulated or not).


You can't win, is all I'm saying...

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:56 | 1478146 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

Have you considered what may have been keeping things afloat over that year and a half?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:58 | 1478156 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

And what "markets" are recovering? Do you think that the health of the stock markets are indicative of the health of the economy?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:08 | 1478211 BeerWhisperer
BeerWhisperer's picture

Stocks are a leading indicator.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:17 | 1478267 akak
akak's picture

of fraud, governmental manipulation and the wholesale abandonment of the rule of law.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:00 | 1478171 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

And which performed better over the last 10 years - silver or stocks? And how have the doomer investments of gold and silver done in the last 12 months?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:10 | 1478228 BeerWhisperer
BeerWhisperer's picture

I completely get your reasoning. But the fact is the QE life support has been removed and with earnings reports the market is moving onward and upward.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:11 | 1478237 BeerWhisperer
BeerWhisperer's picture

Also, it is very well known that commodities are the most volatile investment you could fark with.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:18 | 1478270 akak
akak's picture

Very well known ---- and patently untrue.

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 11:47 | 1484684 Doyle Hargraves
Doyle Hargraves's picture

Not really commodities actively reflect the current state of affairs in fiat systems. Copper has always been known as the metal with a PhD in economics because copper trend and prices accurately reflect current market cycles and conditions. It is pretty well established right now copper is seeing an inflationary trend. It was deflationary though during the 'banking crisis'.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:41 | 1478387 caerus
caerus's picture

please look at a longer term chart of the ES, the post Jackson Hole false bull is over...what we have now is a sinusoidal price vacillation that, absent more "stimulus" I expect will break to the downside

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:15 | 1478532 newbee
newbee's picture


Fri, 07/22/2011 - 02:03 | 1479717 Midas
Midas's picture

Hold on Beer-Man, the earnings report was for a quarter when QE life support was set to WOT.

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 11:19 | 1484584 Doyle Hargraves
Doyle Hargraves's picture

Yeah but QE support being removed takes time to actually materialiaze just like it takes time to actually have an effect. Plus, we don't know how much fraud, graft, and dealings are going on at the fed that we just don't know about I mean after all the fed really isn't accountable to anyone no matter what 'new laws' have been made.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:26 | 1478310 XitSam
XitSam's picture

He listens, yet has not learned.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:17 | 1478539 samsara
samsara's picture

...most people posting comments on here have been talking about how much everything is going to tank for over a year and half!


You are saying that everybody has been crying wolf.

Well,  remember what happened at the end of the story.

The Sheep got eaten by the wolf.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:50 | 1478103 caerus
caerus's picture

this is no bull market...we had two years of artificial equity appreciation courtesy of the fed while none of the underlying problems have been addressed...the large movements in markets take patient

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:51 | 1478105 Doyle Hargraves
Doyle Hargraves's picture

*SIGH* So let me explain...AGAIN! No one buys GOLD to 'make' money. People buy GOLD/SILVER to protect purchasing power. If GOLD is $1K/oz then some serious debt write off and disappearance of debt based dollars will have happened to make it go down to $1K/oz. And by the way lets see how bullish that market is once support of the fed/ppt is gone. PRICE DISCOVERY BITCHEZ!!!

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:51 | 1478112 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'Bull market taking place'...remove all of Bens printing and pumping and remove 0% interest rate and put it to 3%, then tell me what you'd be looking at.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:54 | 1478126 cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

I have many hammers. And many other tools. And skills and materials. And knowledge of how things work, how they are built. I can construct almost anything you can imagine that can actually be built with the human hand including a house.

I know how a steam engine works, and could build one of those if I had to.

I can garden. Butcher a chicken or a steer. Breed animals. Saddle and ride a horse and I could make the tack myself from tanned cow hide if I didn't have any at hand.

I have invested wisely but only in myself. My children are just like me.

I hold no gold or silver. And I will not hammer my skull in on that account.

See you on the other side. Or maybe not.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:32 | 1478346 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:53 | 1478443 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Thank you for the quote. 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:00 | 1478477 citta vritti
citta vritti's picture

Interesting parallel to Black Swan Taleb’s ruminations on robustness and the futility of optimization in the face of unknowables. Lengthy, but well worth the listen (courtesy of ZH posting today of, and check out the Wharton link at the bottom.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:41 | 1478813 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

If you haven't bought gold yet, you haven't missed the best part of the move.  Don't sit out the trade of the century because you didn't catch the bottom.  This ride has a long, long way to go.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:33 | 1478018 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Go long bombs...

... situations like this always ends in war. And the current world financial situation looks like it's ready to justify WWWIII...

... just remember who the real enemy is, and it's not some fella in a cave or some 'dictator' who we were 'friends' with less than a year ago.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:46 | 1478081 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

often come to the same conclusion as scared as that makes me.  I hope it all falls apart quickly as it would give TPTB less time to organize and get us citizens primed and supportive of war. Unless they already have contingency plans in place...gulp. 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:07 | 1478716 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Unless they already have contingency plans in place...gulp. 


They do, and it's for us,you and me, and everyone else here from the USA. if I could elucidate here the details in place, you would shite your pants.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 06:23 | 1479846 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Hey- if you cryptic fellas are helping out behind the scenes- thanks.  But if you aren't going to impart any actionable information, just keep it all to yourselves.  This behavior where you indicate, pose and smirk is the way *ahem* "they" act.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:48 | 1478094 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Now Big Sis is warning of 'internal terror attacks', all this BS is just a little paperwork tying up loose ends before one morning we're looking at total chaos. Anyone who thinks theyre trying to fix anything, or get anything back on track and are concerned about the 'consumer' just has a screw loose.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:20 | 1478744 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Once again, junked for telling the truth.

Some folks can't handle the truth.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:15 | 1478261 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

The bombs that will be used have already been made, and they do not require reproduction in the near term.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:47 | 1478830 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

The next wars will be fought with EMPs, and starvation will be the result.  Why fight people and blow stuff up when you can just destroy their electronics and starve 90% of them to death?  Even N. Korea has done work on these weapons.  Every nuclear arsenal must have these bad boys by now.

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 00:36 | 1479660 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

EMPs only damage equipment that's powered up.  Keep some backup equipment on hand.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:44 | 1478821 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Yup, it doesn't matter why, it is just time for the world to go crazy ga ga.  Since the USA is already at war, and has been so for a long time, I was wondering if we could get permission to sit this one out, but I look at the quality of the average Joe on TV, and I think this herd could use some thinning.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:38 | 1478047 adr
adr's picture

On a day when the market is rallying higher on BS speculation of deals, the stock market darlings are pretty much all going down. LULU, CMG, PCLN, NFLX, BWLD all down after taking out all time highs just a few days ago.

Just proves my theory that the stock market darlings are really just hedge fund bank accounts used to hold assets until they make a big trade into commodities or treasuries. Propping up one area of the market to feed another. Of course they will just say that it is natural for such highly valued stocks to make a slight move down every now and then. But all in concert and all just about the same percent?

Something really screwed up is going on today.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:49 | 1478837 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

The rock stars underperforming a rising market is a classic tell of distribution. 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:38 | 1478048 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

"The chief problem with equities is that the more money that central banks print, the more money flows into equities… pushing valuations up to dizzying (and unsustainable) levels."

Yeah, but then the banks just print even MORE money, and it flows into equities. The party never stops, average Americans should get their shit together, get their personal debt ceilings (credit limits) increased and put the money into the market, then we can push this farce to its inevitable conclusion.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:23 | 1478759 DosZap
DosZap's picture


They are not prining YET.(mere data entries)

You will know when the actual paper starts flowing..Inflation will explode.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:40 | 1478052 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

In other news... Just saw on FOX that Standard and Poor's will make an announcement at 3 o'clock.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:48 | 1478091 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

"if you don't raise the debt ceiling by however much Timmay, Bammy and the Bernank want we'll downgrade your shit".  

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:42 | 1478061 ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

As long as there is supply-demand equilibrium, there can't be inflation no matter how much worthless fiat there is floating around unless those with that fiat are willing to pay double what the market demands. The wealthy already have a 1,000 times more fiat than you & I, but do they pay more for gasoline at the pump because of it? They do pay more for most everything, but they pay for prestige and exclusivity -artificial demand. Show me a town where scarcity of a large basket of necessities is not readily available and then all that fiat will come to bear but not before. 

Fri, 07/22/2011 - 07:19 | 1479881 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Equilibrium is the intersection of demand and supply.  If suppliers aren't willing to accept the same amount of worthless fiat for their goods then one of two things happens, the price goes up or the supply goes down.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:43 | 1478064 kito
kito's picture

yeah sovereign man, lets stick our money in a chilean account. as per mr. black, chile is the panacea to the worlds issues and a virtual utopia. does this traveling wilbury ever have anything substantive to say? 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:43 | 1478066 caerus
caerus's picture

you could also open an account at the NYC branch of the BoC and get some of that RMB

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:54 | 1478131 kito
kito's picture

only the chinatown branch allows you to open an rmb acount

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:58 | 1478154 caerus
caerus's picture

happy ending bitchez!

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:44 | 1478072 Doyle Hargraves
Doyle Hargraves's picture

"Firearms and ammunition: Weapons and ammo serve a dual purpose of providing better home security, as well as a reasonable store of value. Unfortunately, they can also serve a third purpose– putting you on some government agency’s radar."-Gold, Guns, and Girls Bitchez! Oh yeah and chili cheez dawgs are good too!

Sat, 07/23/2011 - 11:57 | 1484711 Doyle Hargraves
Doyle Hargraves's picture

Really you guys junked me?! Who doesn't like Chili Cheez Dawgs? A great staple of Redneck American cuisine! Oh well it was pretty bad I even junked myself because I am stupid like that!

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:47 | 1478086 idoubtit
idoubtit's picture

Anybody explain to me why gold is down today then? 

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:50 | 1478101 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Explain why 100 P/E stocks are up?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:02 | 1478157 Manzilla
Manzilla's picture

Because there are people that want to buy them. You see, one can yell about a stock being over-valued but bottomline the market doesn't give a shit. That's just the way it works. Demand, regardless of where it comes from, tends to do that. It's normal that one someone wants to own something they purchase it. Amazing concept, eh?

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:30 | 1478331 Kali
Kali's picture

People aren't buying them, robots are.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:51 | 1478107 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Federal Reserve sends some money to JPM (they don't wire it or even use paypal, the fed just sends a one line email), the subject line of the email is "precious metal shorts July 21st".

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:55 | 1478135 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

the chicken bones say, "JPM"


Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:55 | 1478137 caerus
caerus's picture

imo don't bother with causality or put too much importance in daily price movements, watch the longer term price trends...we had the longest streak of consecutive up days in Au from 7/5 through 7/18 in decades, we went through resistance around 1550 (that took about 2 1/2 months) then an indecisive session on 7/ is good that the EGC is pulling back...parabolic moves always end badly

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:08 | 1478213 anony
anony's picture

Tell me about it. 

I had that happen to me at the Hustler Gentlemen's Club in Paris, 5 years ago after a beauteous, tall, legs up-to- her- shoulders hungarian love slave, 20-something gave (not in the sense that it was free) me the 45 minute lap dance of my life.

I know from fallen parabolae.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:09 | 1478221 caerus
caerus's picture

lol...very nice

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:03 | 1478188 anony
anony's picture

You may doubt it but it's because I bought an opening position in GLD on Monday. 

If gold were to rise, then I would make a profit and god would never allow that as it would make her very sad.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:34 | 1478355 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

gold and especially silver seem to be testing technical support. i've put up the link to the charts twice now, so i'll just summarize. the gold support @ abt 1580, which we cleared last wed, is in play; silver support is $39.08, which the price rested above last fri and has since held nicely.

the food commodities are generally down, today, with the PMs and the USDx. it's the modified NWO "risk on" with pure paper happiness, today!

if these levels fail for the PMs, the next technical support from the guy i am reading is abt Au = 1555; Ag = 32.40
mama said there'd be daze like this, but if this trampoline doesn't fall apart here, oooh, la-la!

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:51 | 1478108 Cole Younger
Cole Younger's picture

Well....have the Greek people agreed to this? I am not talking about politicians...

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:00 | 1478168 anony
anony's picture

You didn't have to clarify.  We all know politicians are androids, not even 1% human bean people. 









Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:18 | 1478274 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Interest Slaves have no say in the matter.  They will continue servicing the debt as long as the banksters demand it.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:56 | 1478143 Manzilla
Manzilla's picture

Ahhh yes, can't say I disagree with him but I gotta laugh. Please subscribe to my service, pay me some money and I'll give you advice that is common sense and available for free a million other places.(Hell just read ZH)

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 14:58 | 1478155 anony
anony's picture

...and principal "Tenets", too.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:01 | 1478175 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

I just went out and took the american flag i HAD on my house off, and threw the fucker in the front yard where it sits right now.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 16:38 | 1478620 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Fiat cloth.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 17:31 | 1478785 DosZap
DosZap's picture


 Go re-hang it upside down, and see what happens.See if you get any visiotrs.

It's a symbol of "Under Duress"....................most of the unwashed, think it's disrespectful.

It's not........if ever a time when it should be hung that way, it's now.

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:01 | 1478177 miker
miker's picture

Strong deflationary forces will absorb lots and lots of fiat printing without seeing much inflation.  This results in "hidden" or "unrealized" inflation in the money system that may lay dormant for years.  No one really knows how much fiat can be printed and what the ultimate repurcussions will be.  But Central Banks will be hell bent on preventing a deflationary spiral; that is a "known" bad event.  So they will print more in the future. 

Don't bet the ranch on precious metals.  1/3 of assets seems about right.  It could be years before your holdings "pay off".

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:08 | 1478214 caerus
caerus's picture

ES 2/18 1332.5

ES 5/2 1352.5

ES 7/8 1351.5

if ES is going to break resistance that's held since the beginning of this year it better do it soon (i think it won't)

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:24 | 1478297 Cone of Uncertainty
Cone of Uncertainty's picture

Hey, look Zillow is the fucking shit, this economy is great, we are all making tons of fucking money, go bernanke, and go you fucking equity traders!!!

Yeahh fucking Zillow bitches!!!


Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:27 | 1478319 caerus
caerus's picture

exactly...notice the recent flood of ipos that began with linkedin?  what we got here, imo, is a dash for the cash...before it's gone

Thu, 07/21/2011 - 15:24 | 1478302 stirners_ghost
stirners_ghost's picture

This idea underpins the concept for the resilient community we’re planning in South America.

Galt's Gulch?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!