Guest Post: It's Time To Invest In Coal

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Wed, 06/22/2011 - 19:08 | 1393409 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

WTF?

The EPA is currently trying to destroy the Texas energy production that uses coal.

The commies in charge want energy so expensive, old people die due to lack of a/c.

Coal is dead unless you are willing to hang the EPA.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 19:28 | 1393440 KickIce
KickIce's picture

To the junker(s)

Obama:  "When I was asked earlier about the issue of coal…under my plan of a cap and trade system, electricity rates would necessarily skyrocket…even regardless of what I say about whether coal is good or bad, because I’m capping greenhouse gasses, coal power plants, natural gas…you name it…whatever the plants were, whatever the industry was, they would have to retro-fit their operations. "

While Congress has been unable to get a bill passed the EPA has taken it upon themselves to enforce a  green agenda and several energy plants have threatened shut downs or layoffs.

 

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 00:09 | 1393823 CombustibleAssets
CombustibleAssets's picture

Wait til the next administration...

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 19:14 | 1393411 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

I´ve tried to find ways to invest in coal for a long time.

The problem is, I couldn´t find any futures / options / etf´s / etn´s etc.

Buying coal miners like rio tinto or bhp which make about 50% of their revenues from coal seems to be the only way to invest in coal besides buying physical or creating an otc derivative...

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 19:18 | 1393419 Misstrial
Misstrial's picture

BTU

~Misstrial

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 20:09 | 1393520 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

LOL - you got junked...but thanks for the info.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 21:37 | 1393642 chrisd
chrisd's picture

KOL

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 22:30 | 1393698 longorshort
longorshort's picture

Have you written OTC derivatives before?

Sun, 06/26/2011 - 17:53 | 1403650 Clockwork Orange
Clockwork Orange's picture

KOL

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 19:15 | 1393412 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

Certainly after THE RESTRUCTURING EVENT (post collapse) coal should enjoy a renaissance - the feds that are left will have a lot more on their plates than enforcing carbon standards.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 19:22 | 1393426 digalert
digalert's picture

Not in the USA!

Obama:

"I'll bankrupt the Coal industry"

"your energy prices wil skyrocket"

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 19:22 | 1393428 P-K4
P-K4's picture

The basic premise is true about coal being valuable, the administration is looking to provide all US citizens with nuggets this xmas, ilo capital gains distributions... but you're not allowed to burn it without an expensive permit.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 11:03 | 1394868 citta vritti
citta vritti's picture

+1 stocking, but there’s a run in it

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 19:26 | 1393429 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

It's not going to matter, folks.  You can't pour coal into car, truck, ship, tractor or plane fuel tanks.

In the end, that's all that's going to matter.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 19:37 | 1393452 Katow-jo
Katow-jo's picture

Not true.  Coal can be converted into synthetic gasoline, in fact there's a large company in South Africa that does just that.  Their name is Sasol, so if you're looking to invest in coal I'd bet that is a good pick. 

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 19:38 | 1393465 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Their name is indeed Sasol and they've been doing it for about 50 years, and in that 50 years they've reached about 250K lousy barrels/day.  And that's where they are capped by local water supply.

Don't throw out glib suggestions like this.  If you think they are good place for your money, maybe you thought the same thing 50 years ago.

In the meantime, we need 85 million, not hundreds of thousands, MILLIONS of barrels per day.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 19:44 | 1393470 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Their name is indeed Sasol and they've been doing it for about 50 years, and in that 50 years they've reached about 250K lousy barrels/day.  And that's where they are capped by local water supply.

Don't throw out glib suggestions like this.  If you think they are good place for your money, maybe you thought the same thing 50 years ago.

In the meantime, we need 85 million, not hundreds of thousands, MILLIONS of barrels per day.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 20:08 | 1393527 Katow-jo
Katow-jo's picture

Yes, they don't produce 85 million barrels a day.  But they're stock price has gone pretty much straight up since November 2008.  There will be alternative energy, whether it completely replaces petroleum or not.

 

Another company to watch is Syntroleum.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 00:38 | 1393806 i-dog
i-dog's picture

It's time to start thinking local, instead of a single centrally planned solution to the energy shortage/conundrum. It is going to become necessary anyway, with the breakdown of central governments in the coming years.

When TSHTF, there will be no central planners (other than a military dictatorship fighting local communities ... much as we have now, but worse!).

Local communities should each develop what works best for them:

  • wind farms in a windy community
  • solar farms in a sunny community
  • hydroelec in a river community
  • coal-fired near coal mines
  • oil-fired near oil fields
  • geothermal where accessible
  • ethanol fuel in self-sustaining agricultural areas
  • hybrid vehicles where local electricity is adequate for recharging
  • even small nuclear, if they can afford the insurance premium
  • horse and cart where nobody has done anything else yet!
  • other entrepreneurial solutions as they arise

In the early days of rail, hand-shoveled coal and wood were the fuels. Then onboard diesel tanks replaced the labour, then electrification centralised the 'fuel' generation. Electric maglev is probably the future, even for long distance freight -- irrespective of the cost (if it's too expensive, it won't be built and remote communities will need to become more self-sustaining).

It seems to me that a single replacement for hydrocarbons is simple-minded wishful thinking. Of course, the central planners would like a single central solution ... but it certainly ain't gonna happen in the short term (or the long-term either, in my view).

Resistance to local solutions by central planners is purely because of the centralised, state-owned power generation paradigm (which is relatively recent and was first pushed by FDR in 1933 with the TVA). Even under privatisation - whether voluntarily or IMF-enforced - the oligarchs love it! ... because they can acquire just one entity and use the state's guns to maintain the state-enforced monopoly, instead of having to compete with thousands of more practical and efficient local solutions.

Reverting to local solutions under local ownership - whether capitalist or co-operative - will regenerate employment, build local wealth and satisfy local needs. What a novel idea!?!

End the Feds!! (Federal Reserve and Federal.gov)

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 00:48 | 1393876 Element
Element's picture

End the Feds!! (Federal Reserve and Federal.gov)

It's even simpler, end the TBTFs, and all the rest follows.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 06:43 | 1394091 i-dog
i-dog's picture

I don't understand your logic ... they only got TBTF because of government protection and a government decree!

GM, AIG, Lehman, etc would have just withered away without the Feds to protect (Fed.gov) and feed (FRB) them.

Perhaps you could enlighten me?

Wed, 06/29/2011 - 21:33 | 1414218 Element
Element's picture

Sorry for the delay i-dog, have not been in here all week.

Who owns the TBTF?

Who owns the Fed?

Who bought and owns the sock-puppets who pretend to originate 'lawz'?

Does "audit the Fed" end the Fed, if the TBTF were the ones who set up the whole thing, so the TBTF could do what they have done?

How can a Govt of analyse econ-data or take economic decisions and make plans, when the Fed printz, and the TBTF's algo networks stir in QE, and then call it a 'market', where there is no real pricing, volume or investment?

If there is printing the market rises, if not, it falls ... if the FedSatan printz in Sept, the market will rise.

It's feckin Pavlovian! And this only occurs because the TBTFs have divorced the mechanism of the

I N V E S T M E N T

that powers a real market, divorced from affordable demand, non-misallocated credit, REAL production, and inventories.

The investmernt mechanism (that's what the NYSE is supposed to be!) is smashed, the TBTFs poisoned it, and sucked out its brain.

The upshot is, the US Govt, OBAMA, has handed over the keys of the kingdom (monetary and fiscal policy, and economic 'planning') to Goldman Sachs and such.

The Federal Govt is no longer in control of it.

The Joo-confetti machine is.

 

End the TBTF and all the rest follows, as the Fed and the puppeteers and puppets then all come unhinged.

I thought this went without saying - my bad mate.

Fri, 07/01/2011 - 23:22 | 1420748 i-dog
i-dog's picture

OK. I get your point now, Element ... and you are right about the JPM-GS Gang controlling the US money supply ... but the rabbit hole goes much deeper and broader than that. And non-jews have a major hand in it.

That JPM-GS Gang is working to an agenda that is controlled by "another level of government altogether" (to quote a Privy Councillor) than the one we see in the MSM. The rabbit hole is also much older than the rise of the Rothschilds and zionists to real wealth and influence.

If you are looking at the Jooz, then you are only watching the magician's right hand while his left hand is still hidden behind his back! (The jooz really only came into the power picture in the early 19th century, and were only able to intermarry into the Wasp establishment--thereby merging banker and industrialist wealth with establishment land and power--towards the end of that century. Jooz were still not accepted into Skull & Bones until the 1970s - apart from one Rockefeller in the 1920s).

To start to see what I mean, take a look into the Pilgrims Society (here) and the ancestral connections in the bio's of most of its members.

Most say "follow the money", but I say "follow the blood ... since they already have access to more than enough wealth and power".

Cheers.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 19:40 | 1393458 puntme
puntme's picture

liquefied coal bitch

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 19:52 | 1393486 Greeny
Greeny's picture

Coal? Common now, lets all go back in the stone age and

start burning the trees.. F*ck Coal, we have enormous amount

of Natural Gas.. It's clean, cheap and All Made in USA.

Coal my A$$ :))))

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 20:00 | 1393508 Confused
Confused's picture

Not a coincidence. Seems like someone knows what direction things are going. Peak oil? 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-12-01/nat-rothschild-plays-his-strong...

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 20:04 | 1393510 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

EPA is going after NatGas as well. Where have y'all been?

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 20:29 | 1393562 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

For God's sake, look things up.

Nat gas, methane, CH4, has 1/1000th the energy density of oil in gaseous form.  If you want to cryocool it for liquid form, you burn energy doing that.

Oil is oil for a reason.  It's amazing stuff.  It powered the 20th century from 1 billion population to 7 billion.  As it becomes unavailable, so will food for the 7 billion.

Billions are going to die.  And it won't be over a century.  It will be over 5-10 yrs.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 21:42 | 1393644 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Coffinz Bitchez!

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 21:49 | 1393657 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

And yet the EPA is still gonna fuck with it.

Makes you wonder just what their agenda is.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 22:55 | 1393727 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Lol don't tell me people still believe in Global Warming? Don't they ever stick their head out the window?

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 22:36 | 1397358 Boop
Boop's picture

Yah: Climate Change: It's bad and getting worse

Also: A link between climate change and Joplin tornadoes? Never!

I'll refrain from wondering if people ever pull their heads out of their asses.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 22:22 | 1393689 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

bullshit. very little of that 85 mb/d goes into food production/distribution. Billions may die but jamie dimon's yacht will still be fueled.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 22:55 | 1393726 Boop
Boop's picture

Very little of nothing left is still nothing left.  And Jamie Dimon's yacht will have to be moored off of Saudi Arabia or some other country that has oil for internal consumption once there's nothing left for export.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 21:39 | 1393640 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

"Frack!" -Starbuck

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 20:47 | 1393580 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

But... but... Al Gore says that I should not buy coal. He does probably, but he surely has good reasons.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 21:42 | 1393645 sellstop
sellstop's picture

Coal is available and plentiful.

If the price is going up, still, then we are going back to the inflation thingy..

The tape says the selling is about over.

Enough of this deflation thingy...

gh

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 22:24 | 1393695 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

I have done very well with KOL, the ETF for coal.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 22:51 | 1393723 Moneyshot20
Moneyshot20's picture

coal bitchez

 

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 23:02 | 1393738 sanspointe
sanspointe's picture

Can't see taxing carbon at the source taking hold in Australia. The current debate is for polluters that use coal and not miners of. If and when a carbon tax is introduced shall thus make little difference on coal prices.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 23:18 | 1393759 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

No need to panic. King Coal will run the world on steam forever.

You could say Amtrack's Northeast corridor with it's nuke juiced wires is run by coal when it needs to.

 

Also, how easily we forgot about two winters ago when old Londoners were buying huge big books that burn so slowly instead of a bucket of coal. They essentially emptied the dusty book stores in the area. The bigger, dustier and older, the better.

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 23:17 | 1393762 rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

Boy we just seem to move from one mess of fucking shit to another don't we.  I think here in the US we need to declare the gov't and the Fed a threat to national security and have the military take their worthless asses over.

Still working on my hillbilly foundry, currently building a charcoal maker out of 2 55 gallon steel drums and lots of bricks.  Get scraps and make charcoal for my metal furnaces.  I'm sure the fucking cock suckers at the EPA would just love my ass and probably will attempt to shut all us hobbyist down as well. 

Cap n trade, carbon tax? get fucking real who are the real benefactors of this horseshit? Al fucking Gore with his 7 AC unit mansion??  Die motherfuckers.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 00:15 | 1393830 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Austrian wood gas comes to mind Neighbor.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 00:47 | 1393882 Cruel Aid
Cruel Aid's picture

Nice rant.

Al and his ilk, including EPA thugs, want the Carbon Xchange market. It will rear its ugly head again. It's hibernating due to the economy and Ice Storms.

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 08:53 | 1394205 useless_fact
useless_fact's picture

The CCX died an enjoyable to watch death.

http://money.cnn.com/2010/11/17/news/economy/climate_exchange/

Wed, 06/22/2011 - 23:20 | 1393767 keating
keating's picture

Coal's future will grow when new Coal to Liquid technology, in particular the new process developed at U Texas Arlington where CTL costs are very low and getting lower. The future will be coal mines everywhere, and CTL plants next to them, producing solid coal or liquid fuel as the market demands...It could be that the price of a gallon of gas would go back below a dollar...not bad, eh?

Thu, 06/23/2011 - 02:27 | 1393971 stopthenewworldorder
stopthenewworldorder's picture

the issue for ctl is simply one of cost of feedstock, i have posted about this before but tend to get shouted down by the monkeys.  mining coal (or using natural gas for that matter) for feedstock is neither scaleable or economic - the future is what linc energy do which is underground coal gasification which generates feedstock for the ctl process that works out at one tenth of sasol, syntroleum etc etc - means you can produce a barrel of synthetic deisel for around $28.  foding and peabody looking to do a jv in powder river basin with this company

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