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Guest Post: Lives, Fortunes And Honor

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by TFMetals Report

Lives, Fortunes and Honor

Monday is the 235th anniversary of the signing of the American
Declaration of Independence. As such, I'm dispensing with the regular,
weekend chart update. Today, I'd like you to consider the words of The
Declaration as well as the events that led to its signing.

IN CONGRESS, July 4, 1776.

The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America,

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for
one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them
with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate
and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God
entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that
they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created
equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of
Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted
among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these
ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to
institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and
organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to
effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that
Governments long established should not be changed for light and
transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that
mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to
right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed.
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the
same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism,
it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and
to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such
has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the
necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of
Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a
history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct
object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To
prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing
importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should
be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend
to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large
districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of
Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and
formidable to tyrants only.
He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual,
uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records,
for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his
He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others
to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of
Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise;
the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of
invasion from without, and convulsions within.
He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that
purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing
to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the
conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of
Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to
our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to
their Acts of pretended Legislation:
For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders
which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring
Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging
its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument
for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to
compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with
circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most
barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to
bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their
friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to
bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian
Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction
of all ages, sexes and conditions.

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for
Redress in the most humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been
answered only by repeated injury.
A Prince whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We
have warned them from time to time of attempts by their legislature to
extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction over us. We have reminded them of
the circumstances of our emigration and settlement here. We have
appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured
them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations,
which, would inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence.
They too have been deaf to the voice of justice and of consanguinity. We
must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity, which denounces our
Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind, Enemies in
War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America,
in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the
world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by
Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and
declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free
and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to
the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and
the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and
that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War,
conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all
other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And
for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the
protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our
Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.



So, who were these guys, anyway? Legions of fuzzy-headed politicos
with an agenda would have you believe they were nothing but filthy rich,
old white guys who didn't want to pay their taxes. Is that true? Do you
even know whether or not it's true?

Below is the best summary I have ever found on the history of
America's "Founding Fathers". It was written some fifty years ago by the
father of radio host Rush Limbaugh. Regardless of your opinion of Rush
the Third, please take a few moments to read and reflect upon the words
and wisdom of Rush the Second. A link to the full page is here:

"The Americans Who Risked Everything", by Rush Limbaugh, Jr.

It was a glorious morning. The sun was shining and the wind was from
the southeast. Up especially early, a tall bony, redheaded young
Virginian found time to buy a new thermometer, for which he paid three
pounds, fifteen shillings. He also bought gloves for Martha, his wife,
who was ill at home.

Thomas Jefferson arrived early at the statehouse. The temperature was
72.5 degrees and the horseflies weren't nearly so bad at that hour. It
was a lovely room, very large, with gleaming white walls. The chairs
were comfortable. Facing the single door were two brass fireplaces, but
they would not be used today.

The moment the door was shut, and it was always kept locked, the room
became an oven. The tall windows were shut, so that loud quarreling
voices could not be heard by passersby. Small openings atop the windows
allowed a slight stir of air, and also a large number of horseflies.
Jefferson records that "the horseflies were dexterous in finding necks,
and the silk of stockings was nothing to them." All discussing was
punctuated by the slap of hands on necks.

On the wall at the back, facing the president's desk, was a panoply
-- consisting of a drum, swords, and banners seized from Fort
Ticonderoga the previous year. Ethan Allen and Benedict Arnold had
captured the place, shouting that they were taking it "in the name of
the Great Jehovah and the Continental Congress!"

Now Congress got to work, promptly taking up an emergency measure
about which there was discussion but no dissension. "Resolved: That an
application be made to the Committee of Safety of Pennsylvania for a
supply of flints for the troops at New York."

Then Congress transformed itself into a committee of the whole. The
Declaration of Independence was read aloud once more, and debate
resumed. Though Jefferson was the best writer of all of them, he had
been somewhat verbose. Congress hacked the excess away. They did a good
job, as a side-by-side comparison of the rough draft and the final text
shows. They cut the phrase "by a self-assumed power." "Climb" was
replaced by "must read," then "must" was eliminated, then the whole
sentence, and soon the whole paragraph was cut. Jefferson groaned as
they continued what he later called "their depredations." "Inherent and
inalienable rights" came out "certain unalienable rights," and to this
day no one knows who suggested the elegant change.

A total of 86 alterations were made. Almost 500 words were
eliminated, leaving 1,337. At last, after three days of wrangling, the
document was put to a vote.

Here in this hall Patrick Henry had once thundered: "I am no longer a
Virginian, sir, but an American." But today the loud, sometimes bitter
argument stilled, and without fanfare the vote was taken from north to
south by colonies, as was the custom. On July 4, 1776, the Declaration
of Independence was adopted.

There were no trumpets blown. No one stood on his chair and cheered.
The afternoon was waning and Congress had no thought of delaying the
full calendar of routine business on its hands. For several hours they
worked on many other problems before adjourning for the day.

Much To Lose

What kind of men were the 56 signers who adopted the Declaration of
Independence and who, by their signing, committed an act of treason
against the crown? To each of you, the names Franklin, Adams, Hancock
and Jefferson are almost as familiar as household words. Most of us,
however, know nothing of the other signers. Who were they? What happened
to them?

I imagine that many of you are somewhat surprised at the names not
there: George Washington, Alexander Hamilton, Patrick Henry. All were

Ben Franklin was the only really old man. Eighteen were under 40;
three were in their 20s. Of the 56 almost half - 24 - were judges and
lawyers. Eleven were merchants, nine were landowners and farmers, and
the remaining 12 were doctors, ministers, and politicians.

With only a few exceptions, such as Samuel Adams of Massachusetts,
these were men of substantial property. All but two had families. The
vast majority were men of education and standing in their communities.
They had economic security as few men had in the 18th Century.

Each had more to lose from revolution than he had to gain by it. John
Hancock, one of the richest men in America, already had a price of 500
pounds on his head. He signed in enormous letters so that his Majesty
could now read his name without glasses and could now double the reward.
Ben Franklin wryly noted: "Indeed we must all hang together, otherwise
we shall most assuredly hang separately."

Fat Benjamin Harrison of Virginia told tiny Elbridge Gerry of
Massachusetts: "With me it will all be over in a minute, but you, you
will be dancing on air an hour after I am gone."

These men knew what they risked. The penalty for treason was death by
hanging. And remember, a great British fleet was already at anchor in
New York Harbor.

They were sober men. There were no dreamy-eyed intellectuals or draft
card burners here. They were far from hot-eyed fanatics yammering for
an explosion. They simply asked for the status quo. It was change they
resisted. It was equality with the mother country they desired. It was
taxation with representation they sought. They were all conservatives,
yet they rebelled.

It was principle, not property, that had brought these men to
Philadelphia. Two of them became presidents of the United States. Seven
of them became state governors. One died in office as vice president of
the United States. Several would go on to be U.S. Senators. One, the
richest man in America, in 1828 founded the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad.
One, a delegate from Philadelphia, was the only real poet, musician and
philosopher of the signers. (It was he, Francis Hopkinson not Betsy
Ross who designed the United States flag.)

Richard Henry Lee, a delegate from Virginia, had introduced the
resolution to adopt the Declaration of Independence in June of 1776. He
was prophetic in his concluding remarks: "Why then sir, why do we longer
delay? Why still deliberate? Let this happy day give birth to an
American Republic. Let her arise not to devastate and to conquer but to
reestablish the reign of peace and law.

"The eyes of Europe are fixed upon us. She demands of us a living
example of freedom that may exhibit a contrast in the felicity of the
citizen to the ever-increasing tyranny which desolates her polluted
shores. She invites us to prepare an asylum where the unhappy may find
solace, and the persecuted repost.

"If we are not this day wanting in our duty, the names of the
American Legislatures of 1776 will be placed by posterity at the side of
all of those whose memory has been and ever will be dear to virtuous
men and good citizens."

Though the resolution was formally adopted July 4, it was not until
July 8 that two of the states authorized their delegates to sign, and it
was not until August 2 that the signers met at Philadelphia to actually
put their names to the Declaration.

William Ellery, delegate from Rhode Island, was curious to see the
signers' faces as they committed this supreme act of personal courage.
He saw some men sign quickly, "but in no face was he able to discern
real fear." Stephan Hopkins, Ellery's colleague from Rhode Island, was a
man past 60. As he signed with a shaking pen, he declared: "My hand
trembles, but my heart does not."

"Most Glorious Service"

Even before the list was published, the British marked down every
member of Congress suspected of having put his name to treason. All of
them became the objects of vicious manhunts. Some were taken. Some, like
Jefferson, had narrow escapes. All who had property or families near
British strongholds suffered.

·    Francis Lewis, New York delegate saw his home plundered -- and
his estates in what is now Harlem -- completely destroyed by British
Soldiers. Mrs. Lewis was captured and treated with great brutality.
Though she was later exchanged for two British prisoners through the
efforts of Congress, she died from the effects of her abuse.

·    William Floyd, another New York delegate, was able to escape
with his wife and children across Long Island Sound to Connecticut,
where they lived as refugees without income for seven years. When they
came home they found a devastated ruin.

· Philips Livingstone had all his great holdings in New York
confiscated and his family driven out of their home. Livingstone died in
1778 still working in Congress for the cause.

·    Louis Morris, the fourth New York delegate, saw all his timber,
crops, and livestock taken. For seven years he was barred from his home
and family.

·    John Hart of Trenton, New Jersey, risked his life to return home
to see his dying wife. Hessian soldiers rode after him, and he escaped
in the woods. While his wife lay on her deathbed, the soldiers ruined
his farm and wrecked his homestead. Hart, 65, slept in caves and woods
as he was hunted across the countryside. When at long last, emaciated by
hardship, he was able to sneak home, he found his wife had already been
buried, and his 13 children taken away. He never saw them again. He
died a broken man in 1779, without ever finding his family.

· Dr. John Witherspoon, signer, was president of the College of New
Jersey, later called Princeton. The British occupied the town of
Princeton, and billeted troops in the college. They trampled and burned
the finest college library in the country.

· Judge Richard Stockton, another New Jersey delegate signer, had
rushed back to his estate in an effort to evacuate his wife and
children. The family found refuge with friends, but a Tory sympathizer
betrayed them. Judge Stockton was pulled from bed in the night and
brutally beaten by the arresting soldiers. Thrown into a common jail, he
was deliberately starved. Congress finally arranged for Stockton's
parole, but his health was ruined. The judge was released as an invalid,
when he could no longer harm the British cause. He returned home to
find his estate looted and did not live to see the triumph of the
Revolution. His family was forced to live off charity.

· Robert Morris, merchant prince of Philadelphia, delegate and
signer, met Washington's appeals and pleas for money year after year. He
made and raised arms and provisions which made it possible for
Washington to cross the Delaware at Trenton. In the process he lost 150
ships at sea, bleeding his own fortune and credit almost dry.

· George Clymer, Pennsylvania signer, escaped with his family from
their home, but their property was completely destroyed by the British
in the Germantown and Brandywine campaigns.

· Dr. Benjamin Rush, also from Pennsylvania, was forced to flee to
Maryland. As a heroic surgeon with the army, Rush had several narrow

· John Martin, a Tory in his views previous to the debate, lived in a
strongly loyalist area of Pennsylvania. When he came out for
independence, most of his neighbors and even some of his relatives
ostracized him. He was a sensitive and troubled man, and many believed
this action killed him. When he died in 1777, his last words to his
tormentors were: "Tell them that they will live to see the hour when
they shall acknowledge it [the signing] to have been the most glorious
service that I have ever rendered to my country."

· William Ellery, Rhode Island delegate, saw his property and home burned to the ground.

· Thomas Lynch, Jr., South Carolina delegate, had his health broken
from privation and exposures while serving as a company commander in the
military. His doctors ordered him to seek a cure in the West Indies and
on the voyage, he and his young bride were drowned at sea.

· Edward Rutledge, Arthur Middleton, and Thomas Heyward, Jr., the
other three South Carolina signers, were taken by the British in the
siege of Charleston. They were carried as prisoners of war to St.
Augustine, Florida, where they were singled out for indignities. They
were exchanged at the end of the war, the British in the meantime having
completely devastated their large landholdings and estates.

· Thomas Nelson, signer of Virginia, was at the front in command of
the Virginia military forces. With British General Charles Cornwallis in
Yorktown, fire from 70 heavy American guns began to destroy Yorktown
piece by piece. Lord Cornwallis and his staff moved their headquarters
into Nelson's palatial home. While American cannonballs were making a
shambles of the town, the house of Governor Nelson remained untouched.
Nelson turned in rage to the American gunners and asked, "Why do you
spare my home?" They replied, "Sir, out of respect to you." Nelson
cried, "Give me the cannon!" and fired on his magnificent home himself,
smashing it to bits. But Nelson's sacrifice was not quite over. He had
raised $2 million for the Revolutionary cause by pledging his own
estates. When the loans came due, a newer peacetime Congress refused to
honor them, and Nelson's property was forfeited. He was never
reimbursed. He died, impoverished, a few years later at the age of 50.

Lives, Fortunes, Honor

Of those 56 who signed the Declaration of Independence, nine died of
wounds or hardships during the war. Five were captured and imprisoned,
in each case with brutal treatment. Several lost wives, sons or entire
families. One lost his 13 children. Two wives were brutally treated. All
were at one time or another the victims of manhunts and driven from
their homes. Twelve signers had their homes completely burned. Seventeen
lost everything they owned. Yet not one defected or went back on his
pledged word. Their honor, and the nation they sacrificed so much to
create is still intact.

And, finally, there is the New Jersey signer, Abraham Clark.

He gave two sons to the officer corps in the Revolutionary Army. They
were captured and sent to that infamous British prison hulk afloat in
New York Harbor known as the hell ship Jersey, where 11,000 American
captives were to die. The younger Clarks were treated with a special
brutality because of their father. One was put in solitary and given no
food. With the end almost in sight, with the war almost won, no one
could have blamed Abraham Clark for acceding to the British request when
they offered him his sons' lives if he would recant and come out for
the King and Parliament. The utter despair in this man's heart, the
anguish in his very soul, must reach out to each one of us down through
200 years with his answer: "No."

The 56 signers of the Declaration Of Independence proved by their
every deed that they made no idle boast when they composed the most
magnificent curtain line in history. "And for the support of this
Declaration with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence,
we mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes, and our
sacred honor."



As you enjoy your 3-day weekend with friends and family, please take
time to remember the sacrifices made by these courageous men and their
families. Ask yourself, "would I have been willing to make the same
commitment"? "Which principles do I hold so dearly as to risk everything
for their maintenance"? "Should the time come again, will I be willing
to speak out and lead or will I stand idly by and watch freedom slip

I leave you this weekend with the words of Abraham Lincoln, written
some 90 years after The Declaration. Please have a safe and joyous
holiday.  TF

"The world will little note, nor long remember what we
say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the
living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they
who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to
be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from
these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which
they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly
resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation,
under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of
the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the


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Sat, 07/02/2011 - 14:15 | 1421341 Segestan
Segestan's picture

Enjoy the 4th. This is the best i've read from ZH.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:04 | 1421400 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

The Declaration of Independence was followed by the Test Laws, designed to force all colonists into swearing allegiance to their local junta. A record was kept of those who took the oath and they were issued with "a certificate for safety from arrest". Failure to take the oath meant imprisonment, confiscation of property, loss of all legal rights, banishment and even death. Those who refused to participate in the slave-owners’ revolution were barred from holding office, banned from the professions and forced to pay double or triple taxes.

Eight months after supposedly giving his famous cry, “Give me liberty or give me death”, which may itself be yet another invention of the propaganda machine, freedom-loving slave-owner and land speculator Patrick Henry ordered “diligent patrols” to prevent slaves in Virginia from accepting an offer of liberty by Britain. Propagandized-to-tedium land speculator Benjamin Franklin, instrumental in drafting that immortal paean to freedom, the Declaration of Independence, owned human beings as slaves. The freedom-loving “patriots” of the colony of Rhode Island, a major slave trading center, purchased African slaves who were forced to fight and die in the Revolutionary armies in the place of those lily white lovers of liberty who had purchased them as property.

In contrast, Britain, the evil colonial power, not only ultimately abolished slavery in its own possessions but fought slavery worldwide, maintaining costly naval blockades of the African coast year-round and pursuing slave ships on the high seas, freeing captured Africans. In the new “free” United States, slavery continued to exist for a century after the Revolution. Those slaves who could escaped to freedom in British territory in Canada via the Underground Railroad.

Even after the Civil War, legally mandated apartheid, carrying the seal of approval of that great defender of human rights, the United States Supreme Court, existed until the 1960s, complete with lynchings, cross burnings, mass murder and wholesale electoral fraud. De facto apartheid, systemic discrimination, entrenched racism and race-based electoral fraud exist to the present moment, two hundred and thirty years after the Revolution, most of us have been brainwashed into believing, brought freedom, liberty and democracy to America.

Ordinary colonists were forced to join the Revolution by a campaign of systematic terror carried out largely by the so-called Sons of Liberty. Those who did not wish to fight for the profits and power of the slave-owners and land speculators were harassed, jailed, tortured and murdered; their land stolen, their houses, farms, businesses and ships burned or otherwise destroyed by “patriots”. Males who could not escape were forced into the Revolutionary armies, except for the wealthy who could, as always, buy their way out of the draft or buy slaves to take their place, the Texas Air National Guard having not yet been created. Hundreds of thousands of people of all ethnic and racial groups, more than half the population in some areas, fled the flag-waving terrorists to Canada, the Bahamas, Bermuda and other sanctuaries.

Lies and propaganda, fabricated stories of outrages and massacres, much of it invented and spread by slave-owner Sam Adams, the largely mythical “Boston Massacre” being the most notorious and ludicrous example, were used to manipulate public opinion and build support for the war.

The "republican" “patriots” allied themselves with King Louis XIV of France, whose armies and navy were largely responsible for the military success of the Revolution as part of a world-wide war against Britain. France also provided cash and arms to the "patriots" to carry on their war against Britain.

In spite of the ringing words of the Declaration, “Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed” and the oft-quoted propaganda slogan “no taxation without representation”, the instigators of the Revolution, the slave-owning and land-speculating ruling class, had no intention of allowing the people of the United States, white, black, "red" or otherwise, to give or withhold their consent to anything. "Representation" was for no one but the members of their own, very wealthy, very exclusive and very tiny clique of hypocrites, the American ruling class.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:12 | 1421405 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Revisionist history is dull, as are you. There are no nations pure as snow.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 16:13 | 1421486 eureka
eureka's picture

Of course; all men are sinners/fail in some regard - however, some more than others, and the fact remains, to the irritation of men who still harbor irrational, nationalist and hegemonial pride, that the US revolution was a revolution of the local elite:

- TO WIT:  The US SLOGAN "FREEDOM & JUSTICE FOR ALL" sorely lacks enlightenment - because JUSTICE CAN BE AND CONTINUOUSLY IS BOUGHT - and because it is devoid of both the Christian AND rational values and inteligence embodied in:


The US was founded as - and is run as - an idolized/worshipped cult of individualism - a false individualism of predominant self-interest, vehemently or violently furthered by manipulation and leverage - which, unholy/false & unhuman (-devoid of humility & social perspective) culture of material pursuit, power & dominance is dying by no other hand than its own - for naturally such narcisistic self-seeking is infertile and leads to death only.

Happy Fourth Of July - and Happy Contemplation - of whether it is time - or too late - to expand the US founding slogan - and common focus - to a more Christian/enlightened, brotherly perspective - for the resurrection of the republic in a more perfect and godlike perspective, where all men have equal value to the whole of society - and to the God said society claims to worship.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 17:37 | 1421603 wanklord
wanklord's picture

The article in question is a genuine piece of crap (bullshit at its best). Besides that, Americans are a bunch of stupid animals easy to manipulate and subdue. These mules clearly fit in one of Leo Strauss'(*) categories of society: the Vulgar Many

"The vulgar many, are lovers of wealth and pleasure. They are selfish, slothful, and indolent. They can be inspired to rise above their brutish existence only by fear of impending death or catastrophe."

The sooner the US economy collapses, the better, so these brutes will finally learn NOT to live beyond their means.

* German Philosopher (1899-1973)

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 18:55 | 1421688 eureka
eureka's picture

Hey Wanklord - i don't know if you're a robot, or just robot-like... since you have posted the same exact comment and quotes repeatedly for several weeks.

Perhaps you could add more perspective, details and specific points of observation and suggestions for improvement, rather than just mere repetitive contempt for fellow citizens?

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 23:06 | 1422044 jon dough
jon dough's picture

WANKLORD appears to be this commenter Frank W at the blog linked below or he's a plagiarizer.

Either way, WANK-n-stein is properly named.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 13:42 | 1422684 Herbert_guthrie
Herbert_guthrie's picture

Nothing dull about our history, when the real story is told.....

This "pure as snow nation" is stained with the blood of the natives. The desire to be a "free" nation away from the hand of England required the massacre and cultural destruction of the original inhabitants.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:14 | 1421408 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Hey David,

Read your history.  You forgot about a little bloody spat called the American Civil War, in which many tens of thousands died during the second half to help further the cause of abolition, and bring slavery to an end.  There have been a great many people who've lost much (property, reputations, even their lives) to fight for what was right.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:20 | 1421418 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

I hold that a Negro is not and never ought
to be a citizen of the United States.
I hold that this government was made
on the white basis; made by the white men,
for the benefit of white men
and their posterity forever,
and should be administered
by white men and none others.

Senator Stephen A. Douglas
Presidential nominee of the Democratic Party, 1860

1861-65: UNITED STATES. Prominent among the myths and lies which largely constitute the illusion that is "America" is the one which would have us believe that the U.S. Civil War was fought with the noble goal of abolishing slavery. In fact, the "Great Emancipator", President Abraham Lincoln resolutely resisted the calls of abolitionists.

In his first inaugural address, Lincoln said, "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so." On August 22, 1862, Lincoln wrote “If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it.” In September, 1862, Lincoln gave the Confederate states four months to stop fighting, promising to leave the slaves in their chains if they did.

I can conceive of no greater calamity
than the assimilation
of the Negro into our social and political life
as our equal.

Abraham Lincoln

The real reasons for the slaughter of more than six hundred thousand ordinary Americans on both sides were, in fact, just the same two old reasons for each and every war from the dawn of time until today: the insatiable greed of the ruling class for ever more wealth and power.

The northern ruling class, represented by Lincoln, drooling at the prospect of the cash to be made in the kind of large-scale industrialization occurring in Britain, wanted free land, a large pool of cheap labor, a central bank which would operate strictly in their interests and a "free" market surrounded by high tariffs to protect their own industrial operations and maximize their profits.

The southern ruling class, which had largely controlled the federal government since the Revolution, simply wanted to maintain the status quo and, most importantly, wanted no tariff barriers which would increase the cost of manufactured goods imported into the South from Europe which would inevitably lead to other countries putting rataliatory tariffs on the agricultural products exported from the South.

The "emancipation" of the slaves was a tactic which had the effect of destroying the power base which the southern ruling class derived from slavery and "freeing" millions of slaves who then became available as a cheap labor for northern factories and mills. They augmented the huge number of poor whites, men and women, adults and children, who labored in atrocious conditions for long hours for pitiful pay.
Abraham Lincoln is yet another American icon, a largely fictional creation, who doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. The "Great Emancipator" opposed integration and intermarriage, did not think that freed slaves should be given full legal and voting rights, and forcefully advocated both before and during the Civil War that all blacks should be deported to Africa or the West Indies.

We cannot attain the ideal union
our Fathers dreamed,
with millions of an alien, inferior race among us,
whose assimilation is neither possible or desirable.

Abraham Lincoln

Lincoln’s armies committed countless war crimes and atrocities, burning and looting civilian property, destroying entire cities and laying waste vast areas of countryside. Lincoln imposed a fascist regime within the Union states, making a farce of the Constitution. His regime arrested thousands of critics of his war policies, including dozens of newspaper editors and publishers. Under Lincoln, the writ of habeas corpus, a fundamental characteristic of a democratic society, was revoked, and mail and press censorship was imposed.

Only after the Confederate states refused Lincoln’s offer to leave the slaves in chains if they stopped fighting did he issue the Emancipation Proclamation which purported to free slaves in states not under Union control. Slaves in states controlled by Lincoln remained in slavery.

We show our sympathy with slavery
by emancipating slaves
where we cannot reach them
and holding them in bondage
where we can set them free

William Seward
Lincoln's Secretary of State

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:33 | 1421437 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Provide links and support, DavidPierre, to separate facts from spin.

Note that I said "second half" of the war, because Lincoln DID first choose to allow slavery to continue as a means of negotiating with the Confederacy to return to the Union.  When it was refused, the North then began allowing the recruit of blacks beginning in 1862, promising them freedom in return for service.  That action morphed into the full-blown Emancipation Proclamation.


Sat, 07/02/2011 - 19:53 | 1421711 psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

The Emancipation Proclamation didn't free a single slave.  It only applied to non-Federally occupied land.  In other words, slavery was just fine if you were loyal to the federal government.  It took an amendment to the Constitution to free the slaves in the Northern states.  The Emancipation Proclamation was a ploy that Lincoln resorted to after the war was going badly for him, in order to try and whip up a slave rebellion in the Southern states.

Lincoln was a white supremacist who was a big proponent of colonization (i.e., shipping blacks back to Africa and other parts).  In Lincoln's own words, the civil war had nothing to do with freeing slaves: "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and it is not either to save or destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union."

Here is a useful antidote to the "social studies" inflicted on you as a youth:

King Lincoln Archive


Dishonest Abe was easily our worst president.  He was basically a self-appointed military dictator who destroyed the Republic, and enslaved an entire people under a centralized tyranny.





Sat, 07/02/2011 - 20:03 | 1421776 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 15:42 | 1422928 AllTheMarbles
AllTheMarbles's picture

Does anyone really wonder why this nation finds itself in the messes we are are today? With the dork troll partrol out in full force to further bash and divide a truely uniquely American revolution and form of government to futher trash the once revered - United States Independence Day holiday ---- Amazingly 24hrs after asking for a show of hands of ZH'ers who are willing to take the same Declaration of Independence pledge proclaimed by our Founders -- out of 300 or so comments ....only two affirmative responses.

It would seems the vast majority are here just to post their self-centered petty agendas in a semi-public setting, arguing and pontificating about the same old (elite inspired) issues over and over, enjoying the illusion of freedom in your anonymously written confrontations…… everyone is “playing” out your “unique” individual role so well ….. all according to the puppet masters planned curriculum……. which as most of you know is to ultimately keep US divided while the PTB focus their attention and actions on the destruction of America…….wake up ….it is the end of the world ….as you know it. ….is your neighborhood.

Time to…..put aside your differences ….. look for the common ground and thread to keep the Founder’s "American idea" alive …. If not freedom will perish ….. the American experiment will be over……and the European model will once again rule the world…….. 

Again I ask …..who among you will take Declaration of Independence pledge ……..”And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”

If you are unwilling to stand up now – it is okay, maybe later, but step aside, get out of the way, go back to your comfort zone (which for most of you is probably in your Mom’s basement), quit taking up valuable space, and let those of us who are willing to pledge our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor – a few “whine” free forums to begin. The time is now – not tomorrow.

NOTE: Losers you may now junk know who you play your troll role.....

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 22:07 | 1421964 Dburn
Dburn's picture

Probable Source:


Whenever in doubt of source, copy and paste a portion into Google and you'll come up with the likely sources. Below appears to be where some if not all of the material was written. Now he could have copied and pasted it from someone else who copied and pasted it elsewhere as that's the viral nature of the Internet. Many times they are on the email broadcast news channel known as FWD: Please Read and send to everyone you know. Then of course within minutes the contents are copied and pasted on various blogs, indexed by Google so even more can accidentally run into it. If one well known or partial name brand site publishes it, it then becomes fact, as there is now a credible source to link to. It's not that hard to do. The email list that can target the demo you want and from their it just takes off.

This is probably not a credible source but it's a start as most Reporters are too fucking lazy to write more than 200 words in their False equivalency reporting which depending on the quality of the junk quoted will bring screams of liberal or Conservative Bias. That makes controversy and we all know what makes money in news , so the ultimate accomplishment of most of this is:

Make shit up, go viral, start a fight, get MSM to cover it, then quote from it as fact. 


Cheney really rocket boosted this,  by feeding Judith Miller of the NYT's some Bullshit on Iraq which she wrote into a story for the Sunday NYT,  which was ( totally coincidental - as most partisans will tell you) the very Sunday from which Cheney himself quoted the NYT Story he had fed to the NYT as the source on Meet the Press. That's a power template to use, but that's how it's done at the top. Two Credible Sources with total bullshit.

The only real fact we can be sure of is;  the commenter has a great command over Ctrl C and Ctrl V.

Fact checking something like the above involves a rather tedious set of searches , phone calls and emails to find credible sources. 2 Credible sources are usually the minimum standard as three credible sources in usually the maximum. One credible source is accepted but leaves doubt. A Non Credible source that is plagiarized can only be discarded as standard contra bullshit. Little pieces of truth mixed with a narrative to make it sound real. My bet is that is where the original source material was created. 

Also each statement stated as fact has to be individually fact checked which makes it virtually impossible and not worthwhile for the average person to do. It does make an opportunity for Google if they would take it up. The Google Fact Checker. In which a fact is placed in the Google search engine and the engine returns only results that have been cross checked and dual sourced. Finding copy and paste shit is easy. It's the "facts" stated within the text that are a total headache. People might pay money with  this if Google would write a algo that was tested by a variety of well trusted conveyers of facts and allow users to modify the parameters.



Sat, 07/02/2011 - 22:14 | 1421980 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

Dburn wins.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 23:38 | 1422080 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

I once, many moons ago, told him the equivalent of "Yeah, whatever."

I wince now, when I see his posts.

Seriously. I wince.

Epic material.

I tell you with full and total seriousness he is an insightful (of course) benefactor.

I am in your debt, Dburn.

Dburn, if you read this, may I ask what your programming language of choice is?

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 22:14 | 1421981 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

Dburn wins.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 23:14 | 1422055 PierreLegrand
PierreLegrand's picture


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 02:05 | 1422176 Clay Hill
Clay Hill's picture


Thanks for reminding us all to seek more than one credible source before trying to convince others of the "facts".

I offer this for your perusal.



Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:39 | 1421441 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

Meh.... You've gone to great pains to explain exactly what? That so much bullshit, propaganda, deceit, injustice, etc. has been perpetrated on the common man, even by our "most honorable" and in our "finest hours"? Welcome to reality. Personally, I look at "America" (the concept) as the last best hope for a system of goverance - holding no illusions of delusions of its chance of success (I make it 1 in 100, generously). That's 'cause humans are involved.

Yeah it sucks, but not sure we puny 2-leggers are qualified to judge whether on balance it's been to the good.......

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 16:24 | 1421525 eureka
eureka's picture

RE: "not sure we puny 2-leggers are qualified to judge whether on balance it's been to the good......."

Well then, why are you reading, talking and posting at all?

Of course we can judge; more importantly, before we do judge, we can have intelligent conversations about the strength, fairness and validity of the principles upon which we build and judge our structures and our lives - and in that sense, the core question on topic today is, whether or not our founding principles can and need to expand and evolve in order to dynamically contribute to an "ever more perfect union"...

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 17:05 | 1421566 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

Of course I use "judgement"... all de time. My point was simply towards those that think themselves smart enough to pronounce an accurate appraisal of a flawed sytem.... As to why I post "at all" - take it up with TD; he's the one that let me in.....

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 20:03 | 1421772 toady
toady's picture

Now THATS good stuff! Somebody was educated outside what passes for school these days...

It doesn't sit very well this close to the holiday though...

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 11:07 | 1422545 Dental Floss Tycoon
Dental Floss Tycoon's picture

Wear the junks as badge of honor, DavidPierre.

Reference to Lincoln spoiled an otherwise good article.

Lincoln laid the foundation for the overreaching federal monster we have today.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 18:36 | 1421661 psychobilly
psychobilly's picture

You forgot about a little bloody spat called the American Civil War, in which many tens of thousands died during the second half to help further the cause of abolition, and bring slavery to an end.

lol.  Another victim of public schooling.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 18:45 | 1421667 Ancona
Ancona's picture

I wish to formally thank the founders.

God bless them, every one.

The cowards in congress need an object lesson from the "People:.

In liberty, Ancona.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 19:42 | 1421718 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

On a long enough timeline
the survival rate for
everyone drops to zero.

Make it count.

Happy Birthday, America!

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 19:56 | 1421759 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

"God, I pray to secure my victory as a knight on a white horse to protect my property/slaves and my right to plunder natives' property. Amen!"

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 19:58 | 1421765 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Because the people on the opposite side of the Delaware were really into native American's rights? GTFO.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 06:07 | 1422316 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 " Snowball Respectfully" I have a piece for WB-7, that we are still working on. My buddy owns some pretty good art. Picaso good!      Thanks yen.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 22:40 | 1423447 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Actually, one of the main contentions held by the colonists was the fact that the British restricted westward expansion due to treaties with the Indians.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 20:00 | 1421768 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

I Corinthians 10:24: Let no one then seek his own good and advantage and profit, but (rather) each one of the other (let him seek the welfare of his neighbor).

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 20:30 | 1421804 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Don't worry about these guys, Hedgeless, since they mock what they don't understand.  Kudos to you for posting the painting.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 20:30 | 1421809 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose. An evil soul producing holy witness Is like a villain with a smiling cheek.
[1596 Shakespeare Merchant of Venice i. iii. 93]

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 22:50 | 1422026 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Easy on Hedge-less.. Easy. He is righteous and an old timer who has more than paid his dues.. he doesn't fight us, only them.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 23:44 | 1422100 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

then right wing Christians are the devil for using the bible for political ambitions.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 06:12 | 1422317 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  Happy 4th! Yen.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 22:51 | 1422029 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



God Bless You and Yours now as always Brother!


Now it's the 4th lets blow some shit up!! 

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 20:15 | 1421784 JR
JR's picture

No man has ever lived who did more than George Washington to give you the freedom to blaspheme by mocking a prayer.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 21:27 | 1421908 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy. Ambrose Bierce

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 22:44 | 1422014 snowball777
snowball777's picture

I have to say that I was impressed with Washington for not succumbing to the trappings as one might expect of someone who could easily have commanded much more power and wealth after the war.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 23:37 | 1422091 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

so....there is no freedom of speech anywhere outside of America? you need to get out more. What's up with military general worship? You don't have accomplishment of your own? Your pride lies in Washington's conquests?


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 01:54 | 1422196 JR
JR's picture

As a general rule there is no freedom of speech outside America, as most countries make it illegal to criticize their government and/or their populations are so racist that it is very unhealthy to insult their race in public, i.e., Israel, Mexico, Africa, the Muslim countries, Japan…

Only white Christian America not only tolerates free speech but backs this tolerance with law.  Unfortunately, racist groups within America have begun to erode this freedom, as they have already in Canada and Germany where it is illegal to criticize or question certain races, and persons with strong opinions such as yourself should join with me in trying to keep freedom of expression in America a protected right.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 22:48 | 1423456 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

you just make shit up as you go?

there is as much freedom of speech in Canada, Britain, Germany, Australia etc as there is in the US.

In some cases there is much more as you don't it would be an uncommon occurrence in Canada, for example, to have your life threatened in a small town for speaking against the country, government or leader.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 06:14 | 1422318 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

  I'll give you that postulation!   Happy 4th JR.  NEXUS

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 23:07 | 1422046 nmewn
nmewn's picture


You are a supreme asshole, the worst so far and you can quote me verbatim on that.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 23:47 | 1422106 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

don't get your panties in a bunch over some painting.



Sun, 07/03/2011 - 07:23 | 1422346 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Attribution Huckster.

When someone puts quote marks on a sentence or paragraph the reader has the expectation that they will find the name of the one who wrote or said the words within the quote marks.

As I only found one name attached to them, I attribute the words to you and you alone.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 22:53 | 1423466 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

Many people (and I find this to be true of Americans especially so) have a great deal of trouble when you burst their foundational myths.  From the unquestioning defense of the 'founding fathers' in this comment board my assertions are being vindicated.

The truth is scary and fear makes people violent.  Such is the reasoning for the vehemence of their assaults upon you.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 22:40 | 1422012 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

Thanks hedgeless. I like that painting too.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 01:47 | 1422200 agrotera
agrotera's picture

Beautiful, thank you h_h!

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 11:43 | 1422583 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Agreed, H.H., let's make it count.

I celebrate that original courage and the anticipation of a renewal of vows!

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 09:52 | 1422427 oogs66
oogs66's picture

the war was about economics and the ability to freely trade with england as opposed to with the north

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 21:05 | 1421863 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Just a couple of quick lies, above. The British didn't outlaw slavery until 1833, not that far in advance of the USA. Guess they aren't holier than thou.

Can't find even one mention of Samuel Adams owning a slave. Looks like DavidPierre is the fabricator of lies and propaganda. Really have to wonder what the giant chip is on your shoulder there bud. Why do you hate freedom so much? 

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 23:43 | 1422102 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[The Declaration of Independence was followed by the Test Laws...]---DavidPierre

John Adams believed 1/3rd of colonialists supported the American Revolution, 1/3rd had mixed feelings, and 1/3rd (called Tories) opposed breaking away from Britain. (John Adams to James Lloyd 01-1815, The Works of John Adams by Charles Francis Adams ed.)

Pierre, I'm guessing you're a Tory.  And unless you can take credit for creating your post, please do the author the honor of citing his/her work.


Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:11 | 1421404 trav7777
trav7777's picture

why should savages have equal rights?

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 16:20 | 1421511 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Land speculator, ethnic cleanser and slave owner Andrew Jackson, whose noble portrait graces the U.S. twenty dollar bill, personally leads the massacre and then supervises the mutilation of more than eight hundred Creek Indians, men, women and children. Jackson's valiant troops cut off the noses of their victims to provide an accurate body count and then slice strips of flesh from the bodies to tan and turn into bridles.

1830: UNITED STATES. Land speculator, mass murderer and slave-owner cum U.S. president Andrew Jackson urges American troops to ever greater efficiency in the ethnic cleansing of native Americans. He tells troops to "root out from their dens" and kill Indian women and their "whelps" adding, in his second annual message to Congress that, while some people tend to grow "melancholy" over the Indians being driven to their "tomb," an understanding of "true philanthropy reconciles the mind to these vicissitudes as it does to the extinction of one generation to make room for another." The U.S. government offers bounties for murdering Indians and free land and other fine business opportunities to settlers willing to steal Indian land.

1830-38: UNITED STATES. Mass murderer and slave-owner cum President Andrew Jackson signs into law the Indian Removal Act, part of his quest to steal ever more land from the Indian nations. The act enables the militias of the Appalachian and southern states to carry out forcible ethnic cleansing, rounding up native Indians and pushing them ever further west. The Removal Act brings about the “Trail of Tears”, resulting in the genocide of most of the remaining Cherokee nation by the U.S. government.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 18:07 | 1421638 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Those were my ancestors.  My genealogogy consists of over 3/4 Cherokee and Upper Creek.

I NEVER TOUCH $20 bills.


Sat, 07/02/2011 - 21:14 | 1421876 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Weird. Do you really think he has something to do with a Federal Reserve Note, the Central Bank that he fought against? If anything, he is being mocked by being on that bill, don't you get it?

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 22:42 | 1422019 snowball777
snowball777's picture

You're basically saying that his crusade against the Bank of the US was futile? Got it.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 18:25 | 1421651 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Hey David,

1) I have some American Indian (mostly Cherokee) ancestry, directly traceable.  The "Trail of Tears" chapter in our nation's history was a genuine tragedy than cannot be guised in any other way.  But even so, what you say still seems quite a bit skewed by a glaring personal bias.

2) Please provide the link to the source that you've liberally cut-and-pasted from multiple times throughout your comments here.  I'd like to read the source in full to see if you've copied the original author(s) directly or inserted your own language and spin.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 20:00 | 1421767 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

You should cash in your chips and own a casino on reservation land. It is uncle sam's way of saying sorry we wiped your kind off the map. But we don't want to your kind to go extinct, because that would look very bad in the history books and nobody would recognize chiefs as college football teams mascots.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 17:35 | 1421608 snowball777
snowball777's picture

If you're right, then you'll need to relinquish yours immediately.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 20:48 | 1421831 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

Who gets to decide what constitutes being a 'savage"?  It is always a matter of perspective.

Is the savage the primitive whose land you invaded and 'civilized' or is the savage the invader, the taker.

If the hoardes of Chinese should invade your newly stolen land to recover their debts are we to support them in their efforts to purify the land of its current savages?

We are all ultimately African (evolutionary belief) or children of the same God (religious belief, alien colonization belief)

The answer to your question is simple.  If you do not support equal rights for every human then you have no gurantee of your own rights. The day your might faulters you will find yourself considered the savage.


Sat, 07/02/2011 - 20:51 | 1421834 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Might makes right.

All the rest is propaganda.

Kill your enemies, take their stuff, and rape their women.

It is the European way.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 21:16 | 1421878 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

It is mankind's way. The superior power has done it throughout history. To think the Europeans are unique make you very blind my friend. Or stupid. Study some history.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 21:32 | 1421911 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I know. It is just that Europeans and Ivy Leaguers are the biggest hypocrites on the subject lately.

If Europeans want to own it, the go ahead and jam it up their ass.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:57 | 1421488 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

The world has evolved from that time. Your observations are revelations to some and although the founders had some traits that were odious and offensive to the mores of today, is that a reason to throw out the essence of the message with the bath water? 

I find the declaration of independence to be a notion that is relevant to the situation of today. I'm for signing another with the same convictions and intentions. Do you have any other solution to this corruption?

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 16:30 | 1421515 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

"Unless  you were a Native American, Black, Woman, Indentured servant, or anyone in the way when your goods were desired.

I'm so fucking tired of the goddamned lie about a free Us. Free for RICH WHITE MALES. Everyone else was just a number same as today."

Cry me a river....You can take your victim mind-set and stick it up your ass...Bitch!

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 19:40 | 1421741 Noah Vail
Noah Vail's picture

This is good, you all have taken off your masks and have shown your true faces, you self-hating americans.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 17:19 | 1421583 zenblkboi
zenblkboi's picture

Right on , Brother.  This country has been fascist before the word was invented.  And only when people wake up and realize that we can  go back to some sort of "sinless past" where everything was good,  can we truly build an egalitarian society.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 19:45 | 1421742 Noah Vail
Noah Vail's picture

Would that be like Russia or China?

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 19:47 | 1421750 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Damn, you caught us.

I guess we should just drop the facade, and go rip the world a new asshole.

And profit all the way.


Sat, 07/02/2011 - 17:51 | 1421622 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

A-fucking-men! Revisionist history at its finest. 21st white Christian nutjobs creating an idealized version of history.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 19:47 | 1421745 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

boo hoo hoo.

do you want some cheese to go with that whine , gully?

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 23:07 | 1422048 PierreLegrand
PierreLegrand's picture

Clown of the reasons we are where we are these days is because of clown fucks like you.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:07 | 1421398 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Yes, Segestan, pretty much sums up why many of us are here and what we should be fighting for (and what might be required of us).

Pay no attention to Gully Foyle or DavidPierre (both above my comment here) and those like them.  I hope they get a thousand junks each.  They prefer to spew bile and sarcasm and clog the Interwebs with their bitterness.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:16 | 1421412 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Hacked Economy

Oh Sparky, your choice to embrace ignorance is the only freedom you really have.

Of course it isn't exactly a wise choice, but a choice nonetheless.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:27 | 1421433 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

The Boston Tea Party: valiant patriots chuck English tea into Boston Harbor to protest against unfair taxation. Well……maybe not. The Thirteen Colonies’ biggest smuggler, John Hancock, who ran a huge criminal enterprise which earned him the equivalent of millions of dollars a year in today’s money, had organized a boycott of tea from China sold by the British East India Company. By amazing coincidence, this created a huge and ready market for his own smuggled tea. By 1773, the East India Company had accumulated large stocks of unsold tea in its warehouses because it could not compete with Hancock and other smugglers. The British government then passed the Tea Act, which allowed the East India Company to sell tea to the colonies directly without payment of British tax or duty. The East India Company could then sell tea at prices lower than the smugglers.

Yes, you read that right folks……the Boston Tea Party was a protest against the British government REMOVING the tax on tea. Now why on Earth would anyone want to protest the removal of a tax resulting a cheaper product? Well, if you’re a big-time smuggler who makes a fortune selling smuggled tea, you might be a little upset at the prospect of having one part of your criminal empire collapse overnight. And, if you’re a good buddy of Sam Adams, master propagandist and guiding hand of the so-called Sons of Liberty, it’s not too hard to organize a little wanton desruction. First though, you get Sam and the boys to terrorize the agents and consignees of the East India Company with attacks on their businesses and homes. Then, the Sons of Liberty, disguised as Indians and armed with hatchets and clubs, board three ships in Boston Harbor and destroy about 100,000 pounds of tea by throwing it into the harbor. All this to protest the REMOVAL of a tax.

1775: THIRTEEN COLONIES. “The British are coming, the British are coming!” What a great story, Paul Revere riding through the night with his famous message. Makes you feel all tingly and patriotic. But hold on to your tricorn hats, because it turns out that this story is just another lie. The cry might better be, “The Bullshit is coming, the Bullshit is coming!” The truth is that poor old Paul was stopped by British troops and never delivered his message. So why do we believe this nonsense? Largely due to the fact that, in 1860, Henry Wadsworth Longfellow wrote the poem, Paul Revere’s Ride which starts with the immortal lines, “Listen, my children, and you shall hear/Of the midnight ride of Paul Revere.” Longfellow’s glorification of Revere was pure invention. A better question might be, why does the falsehood about Paul Revere remain, like so many others, not only uncorrected in the public mind but continue to be nurtured and spread by the mass media?

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:40 | 1421447 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

Hey David,

All your comments everywhere in this article are rather lengthy, and appear very quickly and suddenly.  Do you have anything original to say, or is everything you post just cut-and-paste chunks from others' work?

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 16:05 | 1421497 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

Why do you find alternate histories so uncomfortable?  You appear to admit from your "cut-and-paste chunks from others' work" comment that this alternate explanation of the Tea Party is not without some support from others.

I hadn't seen this Tea Party history before and I thought it interesting enough to warrant further research.  "Cut and paste" suggests that it isn't the off-the-wall theory of just the poster.

Those who own the history of the past control the future.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 16:18 | 1421509 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

John Hancock....hero of capitalism. How come he ain't got a statue like Mao, Lenin, Stalin etc. (did they take those down yet?) 

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 16:46 | 1421553 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

How long before Blankfein gets his statue (a good reason to feed the pigeons)?

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 16:09 | 1421498 unununium
unununium's picture

"Smuggling" is illegal trade.  Illegal under British regulations.  Your premise is fatally flawed.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 19:46 | 1421748 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

yep, that's about it.  people have to understand that freedom here in this country was always just a silly after thought to many of these people that were running things back then.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 16:37 | 1421535 eureka
eureka's picture

RE "what we should be fighting for"

What then, are you fighting for - apart of course from personal profit?

Personal profit is not interesting, not a story, not philosophical, not a topic of discussion - I don't care about your personal profits or strategies to achieve profits - I am interested in finding out what you and any other zerohedger truly believe in - as functionable, fair and sustainable political-economical philosophy - applied, related and argued intelligently - IF - that is possible - IF - any detailed and critical analysis can be derived and presented here on zerohedge - as opposed to mere grunts, cliches and soundbytes.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 17:03 | 1421565 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

This is a comment for all who are second guessing the founding fathers:

The constitution was written in a way that ammendments (other than the first 10) can be added or modified. The country was not ready then to include negros but eventually people extended those rights.

the wisdom and the intent was there.

Unfortunately, politicians want unencumbered power and the system has been corrupted. The founding fathers had warned us of that and it is time now to throw the traitors out. People of the US must unite.

it is as simple as that.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 18:32 | 1421656 Tunga
Tunga's picture

Oracle; the 13th Amendment only prohibits slavery within the District United States. Per the loop hole in the 9th Section of Article 1 of the US Constitution; human trafficking is still a legal way to make money.

 The real end of Slavery was written directly into the Declaration of Independence. "All Men are created Equal" is the highest law. We just need the wherewithal to make it reality. 

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 23:16 | 1422062 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

[The real end of Slavery was written directly into the Declaration of Independence. "All Men are created Equal" is the highest law. We just need the wherewithal to make it reality.]---Tunga

Hi Tunga.

I'm not clear on your point. So this Reply may not apply to you directly.

"All Men are created Equal" is not a "law" as you put it. Instead, all men are equal under the law.

Secondly you said, "We just need the wherewithal to make it reality." To be clear, our Founders believed our equality is God given. Therefore, our "equality" is and always has been a "reality." We need only recognize and protect that fact. The "wherewithal" as you say, is exemplified in the sacrifices enumerated in the above article.

Happy 4th!

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 23:26 | 1422083 Tunga
Tunga's picture


May the forth be with you also Keeper.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 23:49 | 1422107 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

hahaaa.  Never heard that one.

My best to you and yours.

May the "fourth" guide you and protect you.


Sun, 07/03/2011 - 09:31 | 1422406 Tunga
Tunga's picture

Tunga very old.

With regard to the Law, the founders had to counter the Divine Right of Kings by assuming "... among the Powers of the Earth, the separate and equal Station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,..."

 Certain of the posts here are devoid of the reason needed to recognize the difference between a subject of empirical tyranny and a Citizen vested with power of the highest law directly within their hands.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 10:20 | 1422456 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

With respect and deference to your years, thank you for your Reply. I agree, The Laws of Nature and of Nature's God are supreme, immutable, and unalienable.

I fear humility will be a hard-won lesson for many of us here at ZH.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 18:55 | 1421678 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

@ Eureka,

I doubt any response I give could satisfy your question to your liking, so I suppose it wouldn't be worth the time to craft a lengthy and deeply philosophical reply.

I don't know what you believe in, or what you'd be willing to die for.  I will readily agree that it's all too easy for ANY of us to put up an avatar and a false bravado behind the safe anonymity of our keyboards.  But you ask a very, very good question.


"What then, are you fighting for...?"


As of yet, we're not fighting here for anything.  We're mincing words and slinging mud in a psuedo-political arena.  Words appear on the screen, and ideas float around in the ether, but little if anything advances.

 I don't know what you're fighting for, Eureka, or what you'll die for, but I do know that we all have our limits of what actions we'll accept, until those actions become interpreted as violations or attacks.  But I do know that it makes me very disheartened to read so many cynical comments from so many people.  People on ZH regularly hate the system...hate the bankers...hate the elites...hate the police state that is forming around us and closing in on our liberties.  And often for good reason.  But then they also mock and belittle those who make comments referring to the original intent to create a free nation and environment for us to live in.  These people seem to be "happy only when it rains", and will gripe no matter which way the wind is blowing.

 So to answer your question, I will argue and fight against illegal changes to my constitutional liberties.  I will continue to speak out in favor of the small-government, sound money, libertarian society that our Founding Fathers set up for us in the beginning.

 If you're asking about physical fighting, then that's a different answer that can't really be given until each of us actually finds him/herself in that position.  I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that, and I believe that an economic/currency collapse will help to bring about its own changes and improvements to what we have today.

 But you attempted to steer my comment away from my original intention and implied that I'm not fighting for anything "apart of course from personal profit".  Profit isn't the #1 priority, and not part of any of my comments here (even though you were a good politician and spun them around) but in some sense, of course we're all working toward some measure of personal profit.  THAT'S THAT WHOLE POINT OF BEING FREE AND LIBERATED FROM THE WELFARE STATE AND THE FED'S ATTEMPTS TO MAKE US DEBT SERFS, ISN'T IT?  What a ridiculous statement for you to make.  Good grief.

 So, then, to turn your question back to you...what are YOU willing to fight for?  Willing to answer?  Able to give a "detailed and critical analysis" as you challenged anyone else here to give?

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 19:20 | 1421716 eureka
eureka's picture

@ Hacked Economy

Thank you for your detailed response and statement I appreciate it - and, I agree with you on all of your well argued points, including the one that we obviously all are interested, and legitimately so if honestly achieved, making a profit. My stated challenge was aimed through you at our larger zerohedge forum, to spur more in depth conversation, rather than mere sound bytes - which leads to my answer to your question: "what do I believe in - and am willing fight and die for"?

My answer is: I believe in dialog, analysis, discourse, debate, solid, factual, principled argumentation - as a process of discovery, to uncover nuances and variability and thus new constellations and conglomerations of ideas, models and structures to test - in order to always dynamically move "our ball", our civilization forward - and all of these elements of positive engagement depend on knowledge and its exchanges, and on civic minded interaction all fo which I consider paramount to a decent and worthwhile human life - for without them, and with personal profit as only motive, we have no civilization, but are merely little copies of the monied, not-wisdom'ed, elites which we despise.

Happy Fourth, and may we all aim and dedicate ourselves to precision in discourse for the sake of our common consciousness, which makes up our culture and nation. Freedom, to exercise wisdom and humanity should, in my opinion, be our superior goal.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 20:32 | 1421813 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

I apologize for my previous sarcasm toward you.  You provided a thorough answer and didn't further any mudslinging in the process.  You were the better man for today's discussion, and provided some food for thought.

Happy Independence Day.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 22:56 | 1422031 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture
by eureka
on Sat, 07/02/2011 - 19:20

Freedom, to exercise wisdom and humanity should, in my opinion, be our superior goal.




And who will be charged with providing for your safety while you enjoy the high life? Maybe the Bankers are better suited as they surely would negotiate terms far more favorable as compared to the Hoards!

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 12:20 | 1422563 stirners_ghost
stirners_ghost's picture

Our common consciousness? Seriously?

If that's what makes up "our culture and nation", I've nothing at all to worry about.

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 19:13 | 1423200 DeltaDawn
DeltaDawn's picture

Weigh the merit of the ideas, not our perception of the men who formed this document. It is possible that they were limited in their vision that it included all mankind, but we all now know that it does. Fight for the beauty and truth in this document, instead of getting bogged down in in imperfections found in all of us.  Strive for justice and goodness wherever it leads.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 14:15 | 1421342 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Freedom vs. Big Macs?
Get real.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 14:21 | 1421344 oklaboy
oklaboy's picture

Turd, all I can say is FKIN A. Great piece.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 14:25 | 1421345 DogSlime
DogSlime's picture

It's a damn shame.  The US gained independence from Britain but is now ruled by the money men... like Britain is now... like Europe is now... like China is now.

This can't be what the architects of American independence had in mind, can it?

Have the bad guys won?

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:49 | 1421459 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

well, I am not an optimist, but technically "it ain't over till it's over"

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:56 | 1421479 southsea13
southsea13's picture

The house always win, so why not the bad guys? (Yes it sucks, I know!!) 

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 18:03 | 1421632 duo
duo's picture

The founding fathers revolted against the Engish Banks, and the governement (King) that served them.  The colonies were the Greece of the era, a place to be pilfered to support Knge George III's war debts.

Behind every war, there's a bank.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 22:32 | 1421996 Manthong
Manthong's picture

And though the past has it's share of injustice
Kind was the spirit in many a way
But it's protectors and friends have been sleeping
Now it's a monster and will not obey

The spirit was freedom and justice
And it's keepers seem generous and kind
It's leaders were supposed to serve the country
But now they won't pay it no mind
'Cause the people grew fat and got lazy
And now their vote is a meaningless joke
They babble about law and order
But it's all just an echo of what they've been told
Yeah, there's a monster on the loose
It's got our heads into a noose
And it just sits there watchin'

Our cities have turned into jungles
And corruption is stranglin' the land
The police force is watching the people
And the people just can't understand
We don't know how to mind our own business
'Cause the whole worlds got to be just like us
Now we are fighting a war over there
No matter who's the winner
We can't pay the cost
Yeah, there's a monster on the loose
It's got our heads into a noose
And it just sits there watchin'

America where are you now?
Don't you care about your sons and daughters?
Don't you know we need you now
We can't fight alone against the monster

Steppenwolf, Monster, 1969

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 01:10 | 1422181 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I was 21 years old when this song came out.  Heard it hundreds of times.

Thanks for posting the lyrics.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 14:35 | 1421358 jakethesnake76
jakethesnake76's picture

The Bad guys have won the Battle but can they keep it , can they keep it. Has the American Mind been Closed ? Do we think it's worth putting in long hours over years to win the war and our country back ,, Time Will Tell , The number of Man is 666 or in other words 2/3 of a whole, if a 2/3 majority want to save this country it can be .. In the revolution only 1/3 were for fighting and 1/3 were loyalist to the Crown, and the final 1/3 went with the Patriots , and the war eventually was won ...

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 20:04 | 1421773 Noah Vail
Noah Vail's picture
Why is this place infested with communists? Don't you see the essence of the problem. You got the banksters on the one side and the Marxists on the other with a herd of wildebeests in between.
Sat, 07/02/2011 - 21:18 | 1421884 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

I guess you don't understand that the Marxists are funded by the banksters.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 14:37 | 1421359 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Why isn't our glorious, inspiring history taught ? That's why we have lost our way ! Have a happy and meaningful 4th of July ! A sick Socialist world desperately needs our leadership and we are following them ? Monedas 2011 Hillary doesn't inspire me !

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:40 | 1421452 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture


Exactly.  Tyler sure has drawn out a lot of bitter trolls from under the bridges with this patriotic article, hasn't he?

I myself plan to - as I do every year - remind my family of the honor and sacrifice given by our that 235 years later, bitter blog trolls would have the basic freedom to spew against them.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 16:34 | 1421533 Monedas
Monedas's picture

It's troubling that so many hate freedom, hate achievement, hate happiness and contentment, hate people triumphing over adversity ! Enjoy your 4th of July, Hacker ! I'd give anything to be in  Joplin, Mo. with Rush ! Monedas 2011 Stay with the happy people !

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 18:13 | 1421644 Monedas
Monedas's picture

It's troubling that so many hate freedom, hate achievement, hate happiness and contentment, hate people triumphing over adversity ! Enjoy your 4th of July, Hacker ! I'd give anything to be in  Joplin, Mo. with Rush ! Monedas 2011 Stay with the happy people !

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 14:41 | 1421365 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Who among you will cast your fate to the winds of Liberty?

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 22:54 | 1422034 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



that is some funny shit right there!!!!



Sat, 07/02/2011 - 14:38 | 1421366 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

Turn off your televisions and get back 4 hours of your life a day.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:17 | 1421420 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture


I lowered my TV intake to only 1 hour per day long ago, and my days seem so much longer.  Long enough, in fact, to have time to read up on history and memorize quite a bit of it.  The end of this article contains the second half of Lincoln's famous Gettyburg Address.

By turning off the TV and focusing myself on more relevant things, I have the Address (among many other things) completely memorized and can recite it at the drop of a hat.  Instead of memorizing the latest irrelevant pop song lyrics, I challenge anyone to memorize the Gettysburg Address or the Preamble to the Constitution...or even the opening remarks to the Declaration of Independence.  Many people have commented here on ZH about the amazing effects of carrying a silver coin in their pockets and how it makes a person view our monetary system differently.  Well, I absolutely guarantee that if you know (and I mean, really know by heart) at least the basics of our founding documents, it will do even MORE to fundamentally change and improve your perception of the world around you, and you'll have to be held back from sharing your knowledge with those around you and spreading awareness.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:27 | 1421429 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Hacked Economy

Well isn't that special. Your whole post was magically inspiring with only a little teeny tiny bit of self serving superiority.


Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:47 | 1421465 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

is that really you, Matt?

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:48 | 1421470 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

You know, Gully, at first I was a bit frustrated with your other posts in this article, but now I realize that it's really quite humorous.

Did you ever see the movie Good Will Hunting?  You know that scene when Robin Williams is having that short talk with Matt Damon and saying how hurt he was over Matt's earlier remarks about Robin's wife?  Robin's character then breathes a sigh and says as soon as he realized the stark fact that Matt's character was nothing more than a sarcastic, immature, pessimistic fool (to that effect), whose words meant nothing, then he finally fell asleep like a baby and never let it bother him again.

Junk away...comment away...feel free, but I won't be replying to you anymore.  You aren't worth the time.

I'm going to turn off my computer now for the rest of the weekend and enjoy my yard, my barbeque, my family and friends, and my 4th.  I'd like to wish you the same, but you've proven through your comments here that you don't lean that way.  Too bad.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 16:53 | 1421558 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Aw, give the poor guy a break.  He has to masturbate in the closet because mom broke the lock on the bathroom long ago.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 19:31 | 1421729 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Hacked Economy

Nice attempt at deflection.

But you failed miserably.

First you set yourself up as all superior for giving up the tv, then you quote a Matt Damon movie. A movie really?

If you had any intellectual consistency you would have quoted a literary reference, Dickens/Proust/Rand/Fucking Harry Potter.

Fuck dude, do you think the real intellectuals like ORI/Lennon Hendrix/WilliamBonzai 7/Cognitive Dissonance would make that kind of mistake? Would be deceived by that kind of grievous error?

If I'm not, why would they?

All you did was prove you are a fake and a fraud. You rely on pretense not substance.

And that only brings us back to my original claim about your self serving superiority.

Dude you did all the work and proved my point.


Sat, 07/02/2011 - 17:01 | 1421562 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Sooo Gully, its pretty easy to stand back and take pot shots ain't it?

Where's your home port? I can return the favor ;-)

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 19:38 | 1421731 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


Get over yourself.

But if you share your address I will be glad to visit. What hours do Mom and Dad allow you to have friends over?

Oh yeah for future reference there is this law about threatening violence to people on the internet. It's a Federal crime. So unless you like your asshole stretched daily it may be wise to keep those kind of comments to yourself.

Then again prison rape may be your thing.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 19:39 | 1421738 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Hey coward boy, he just wants to know your nation of residence so he can properly show what a total fucking hypocrite your are.

No nation is better than the US. The world needs to US to lower itself to equal the rest. Seems they are gonna get their wish. Mores the pity for the world.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 19:49 | 1421755 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Is Austin the best place to live in Texas? :)



Sat, 07/02/2011 - 20:26 | 1421795 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

No, it is a piece of San Francisco torn off an replanted in the middle of Texas. High taxes and assholes on every corner.

I'm considering a move to Alaska after the Mexican Invasion turns it into a new California.

Bring it, if you dare.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 21:50 | 1421940 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

I used to like to go there when it was a sleepy little town and you could go swimming under the guadalupe river bridge....

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 09:55 | 1422434 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I avoid downtown.

The desire to slaughter hippies is almost too much to overcome.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 20:47 | 1421835 nmewn
nmewn's picture


As Freikorp observes (correctly) it was a query as to your nationality and country of where you post your ridiculous rants from.

And you still didn't answer the question at hand.

But then, we get to this colossal jewel of blinding stupidity...

"Oh yeah for future reference there is this law about threatening violence to people on the internet. It's a Federal crime."

Is it now?...why whatever (you knowing the above law so well) possessed you to post this?

"But if you share your address I will be glad to visit."

Let me explain something to you and I want you to read this very carefully so you don't become confused again.

Many people have tried to do whats on your mind right now over the course of my life, I'm still here, I have the scars to prove it and I would be delighted to show you them as there is a story behind every one of them.

If you find yourself scheduled for a trip to Fla. drop me a line...I'm easy to find around here.

We can have a drink together at the place of your choosing, we can laugh and discuss your new found manhood like the gentlemen that we both are ;-)

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 20:51 | 1421841 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I hear ya. My wife made me take down the trophies.

Women are so non-Viking. I despair.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 21:35 | 1421922 nmewn
nmewn's picture


I do wonder now (perusing the comments)...where has the marauding army of indignant self righteous crusaders run off to?

Ah well, probably talking amongst themselves about the finer points cricket & guilt trips yet to be sprung on the unwary...LOL!

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 21:52 | 1421942 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

I remember in the old usenet days, sometimes things would get off of the internet into real life..........

Sun, 07/03/2011 - 12:03 | 1422615 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

No body, no crime.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 16:24 | 1421529 Havana White
Havana White's picture

"How to Pick Up Chicks"

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 21:57 | 1421947 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Ah the good old  days , when you had to go out and have discussions with the other sex. That was before they had facebook, where now all you have to do to get the hot and bothered is to send them a picture of your private parts....

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 14:46 | 1421369 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Autocratic power over people in return for economic gain: a question that keeps re-surfacing in the world time and time again, even in the supposedly enlightened 21st century. It's important to re-frame this question on the Fourth of July and consider it's impact on all people. I believe that was the intended spirit of the signers of the Declaration. 

Happy Fourth !

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 14:52 | 1421372 Subprime JD
Subprime JD's picture

Yeah CogDis, this is not a place for edification, not at all.

ZH is quasi-revolutionary, especially with articles such as the above. How many times do we see the word "revolution" being mentioned on ZH on a weekly basis. Maybe TD can help with that.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 22:32 | 1421997 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

Vive delacroix!

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 14:59 | 1421375 uno
uno's picture

Can you imagine if they had our MSM back then, or if our current federal imperial warlords were in charge, they would all be sent to Guantanamo.

Supporting the Declaration of Independence today gets you labeled a domestic terriorist.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 14:55 | 1421384 optimator
optimator's picture

Great plot for a SF movie!  The signers enter a time warp and emerge in 2008 on the steps of Congress where they are greeted by (fill in any name, Barney Frank, Ron Paul).

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:04 | 1421394 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

...where they are greeted by photos of Anthony Weiner's weiner.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sat, 07/02/2011 - 17:58 | 1421627 snowball777
snowball777's picture

...and wonder why we'd care (they got along with ribald bone-hound, Franklin right?)...I think they'd be more concerned about the expensive standing armies...they may have even written something to that effect in the consti-something-or-other after that experiment with the continental dollar.



Sat, 07/02/2011 - 15:21 | 1421427 Hacked Economy
Hacked Economy's picture

You know, as tongue-in-cheek as your comment sounds, I've actually had that very same thought many times over the years.

Modern technology allows for limited time travel, and shortly before his natural death, Thomas Jefferson is brought to 2011 and allowed one full month to acclimate himself to modern society and see how our nation has turned out, especially over the past half century.

Then he's allowed to address Congress with live cameras he approaches the podium, his face gets red with anger...

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