Guest Post: The New Civil Wars Within The West

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Mon, 07/05/2010 - 12:25 | 453108 VK
VK's picture

And why do countries, societies and civilizations fail?

Marginal cost > Marginal Benefit. Not economically feasible to keep the empire humming as the cost begins to outweigh the benefits. We've hit brick walls credit wise, resource wise and population wise. Limits bitchez, learned by every single empire and civilization before the present one. An economic smackdown of Keynesiansim and Monetarism is at hand.

PS - Islam isn't the problem. Stupidity is, otherwise religion would've been banned centuries ago.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 12:39 | 453128 pan-the-ist
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Do I interpret correctly your post script as implying that religion is necessary to keep stupid people in line?

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 12:50 | 453138 Broken_Trades
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I read as far as oilprice.com and realized this article wasn't worth my time.

 

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 13:18 | 453178 Canucklehead
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I agree with you on Oilprice.com. 

I read the article above.  Very simplistic linear thinking.  No paradym shifts or "outside the box" simulations.  Basically the premise of the article is "if people put up with short term pain they will put up with long term pain".

Now you know real time paradym shifts will happen and the outcome will be completely different than that professed above.

The above analysis must have come from a phd (econ). It is so simple because macro is too hard...

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 14:42 | 453265 Broken_Trades
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Economics, high finance, central banking, MBS, CDOs, CDS, are all things I don't do every day.  I come here to read about that - It's confusing, its complicated.  The information posted on thsi site has opened my eyes and led me to discover so much more about the financial markets on my own.

 

The oil business is what I do,  I understand how it works.  Thats why I need to post that anything from oilprice.com is complete garbage.  It makes no sense.  It's not based on reality.  Most of the articles posted here from oilprice.com are obviously written by someone without even the most basic understanding of oil and gas.  It's sensational BS that doesn't pass even a cursory look.  No need to fact check, it's utter nonsense. 

 

 

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 15:55 | 453358 dark pools of soros
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then let us into the deep secrets that you possess??  or do you just get your info from what is released to the MSM since you are just a grunt?

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 15:58 | 453359 dark pools of soros
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duplicate.. nice servers Tyler

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 15:57 | 453360 dark pools of soros
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duplicate.. nice servers Tyler

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 16:10 | 453375 trav7777
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To really mount a credible rebuttal, you need to learn how to spell "paradigm" properly

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 17:13 | 453438 Canucklehead
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lmao

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 16:11 | 453378 trav7777
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To really mount a credible rebuttal, you need to learn how to spell "paradigm" properly

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 17:43 | 453486 Muir
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And you need to be able not to hit the save button twice, you moronic smiley.

The above poster was correct this "article" is pure rubbish.

p.s. And, take that finger and stick it up your bung hole.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 13:44 | 453212 hbjork1
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+10

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 22:41 | 453727 Dr. Sandi
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Jesus Christ, I got this shit all over my monitor.

Bad ZH, bad. Go to your room.

 

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 15:46 | 453342 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"And why do countries, societies and civilizations fail?"

Answer: Fraud and Systemic Corruption
When the fraud and corruption of the parasitical oligarchy become to great a burden, rent seeking taxation, on the citizenry and real economy, collapse is inevitable.

BTW: Obummer is not some creeping socialist. He is a pro corporate owned governance fascist.

Obummer institutes corporate and TBTF (Obummer's owners) bankster welfare and bailouts, instead of free market failure for the incompetent elite (Obummer's owners) Rubin, Rubinites, Jamie, Lloyd, et al (Obummer's owners)...

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 18:44 | 453530 TBT or not TBT
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He is a statist, but then so are most politicians.  Government grows in scope, intrusiveness, and destructiveness, at different rates over time, but it always grows, faster under some, a bit slower under others.   Our Constitution was designed in recognition of that tendency to ever increasing reach by government:  It set the several branches against each other, and reserved many rights to the people or the state and local governments.   However, ever since the Commerce Clause was reinterpreted to allow the Congress to regulate absolutely anything it wants to in the name of regulating commerce, our central government has gone out of control.   Thus pointed questions to Kagan whether the Commerce Clause limits what Congress can regulate, including down to individual behavior (such as being forced to buy some good or service, the very centerpiece of Obamacare, a piece of overreach unimaginable to our founders).   Much hinges on how the Supremes rule on the latter.  It is the end or the continuation of the american experiment in liberty at stake.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 15:48 | 453344 Problem Is
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Double Post....

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 15:49 | 453345 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Double Double Post

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 15:53 | 453346 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

Tyler: I am getting sent to some bizzaro blank edit page when I hit save... I can not even tell anything posted...

Can you delete the last three?

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 19:07 | 453552 DosZap
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*That was MY error.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 19:08 | 453553 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Problem IS,

Was having same issue....

Here's the only way AROUND it, w/out losing your POST....

Leave the error page alone.

Click on ZEROHEDGE.Com, anew, and you will find ONE POST..NOT 3/4-5-

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 19:09 | 453557 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Not Tyler,

 but you can, hit edit, erase, and put an asterik in, and  hit SAVE.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 16:48 | 453415 DosZap
DosZap's picture

VK,

LARGESS is why we're FKD.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 17:11 | 453437 Instant Karma
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Article II Section 4 - Disqualification

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 19:11 | 453559 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Instant K,

Look up the definition of MISDEMEANORS...............cover a LARGE GAMBIT.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 20:29 | 453630 Instant Karma
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Good, maybe we can get rid of this insane Administration before it's too late.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 03:05 | 453935 jeff montanye
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ambit?

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 12:44 | 453132 ZackAttack
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+100

Once the scales fell away, I've begun tuning out anyone who parses the world through the broken, cloudy prism of their politics or religion.

 

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 15:12 | 453295 Reductio ad Absurdum
Reductio ad Absurdum's picture

Wtf?? Did dcb just argue that Obama forcing everyone to buy health insurance proves that the democrats aren't trying to expand government??? This is the kind of logic that causes robot brains to explode on Star Trek. It's self contradictory. Let me explain things very very slowly so that dcb can understand: When the government forces you to do something -- anything -- then the government is expanding its role in your life.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 18:45 | 453534 TBT or not TBT
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Verily!

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 18:58 | 453543 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Apparently, neurons are in short supply in the bizarro universe you dwell in, Reductio Absurdist!

Word up, lowbrow, the US goverment has long been majority privatized, dood!

Word up, lowbrow, the most sensitive intel operations in the US government are now between 67% to 95% privatized (N.R.O., 95% privatized, last time I checked several years back)!

Word up, dood, that so-called "health insurance reform" was about the further consolidation of power and control within the health insurance industry.

Word up, dood, that so-called "financial reform" just passed by the US congressional whorehouse is about the further consolidation of power and control of the banksters.

 

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 19:16 | 453562 DosZap
DosZap's picture

sgt_doom,

word up.............

List a few, pls sir?.....................Outside the USPS,and the Fed.

On the last two, Uh, Yes & No..................

A LOT more to it than that.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:19 | 455268 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Forgive my annoyance, but in the year 2010, anyone who asks me to list a few, must surely be unable to read.  Kerist, dood, this has been going on for thirty years now!

The US military, many, too many functions have been privatized.  Perhaps you've heard about this country and US invasion known as Iraq!  Half or more of the "soldiers" over there: private contractors!

Perhaps you've hard of this country and US invasion known as Afghanistan: half or more of the "soldiers" over there are private contractors.

Over 60% of NSA, CIA, DIA and CIFA are private contractors.  I previously mentioned that 95% of National Reconnaissance Office, what should be the most secretive of US intel ops, is privatized.

A considerably large fraction of the US government has been privatized, beginning with Reagan, and continuing on with Bush #1, Clinton and Bush #2.

Who does the background checks for the TSA? Blackwater USA, nor called Xe Services.

Who does the background checks for the Office of Personnel Management, and a number of other government agencies? Formerly Kroll, now owned by Veritas Capital and renamed Pearson.

And on, and on.  I am stupified by the asking of such a question at this site.

Seriously....

 

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:26 | 455287 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

What the frigg do you mean, Yes & No?

The health insurance legislation came from the Heritage Foundation, was written by the Wellpoint VP, and the insurance exchange originated at Enron?

On the so-called financial reform, the only thing unique is the replication of existing laws regarding predatory lending, which the Bush Administration, acting through the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, interdicted individual states when they wanted to use their existing predatory lending and consumer protection laws to go after the banksters.

Oh yes, along with the help of Standard and Poor's threatening to reduce the states' bond ratings.

And a consumer protection agency from within the Fed....puuuuhhlease don't make me puke.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 20:28 | 453629 Tenma13
Tenma13's picture

enough already with the dood, sort of funny the first time, moronic by the last. Good points, leave it at that.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 16:20 | 455272 sgt_doom
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FYI on dood.

I use it as a term of disrespect.  Otherwise, I would spell it dude.

Such semantics have their purposes.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 00:52 | 453868 dcb
dcb's picture

I am unable to find my initial post, but I would argue along the lines of the sargent below.

nationalizing healthcare is an expansion of government. forcing people to buy private insurance is forcing people into private corporations. Not government expansion. (in my view).

There really is no reason to be insulting. As usual such tactics have to be used by those who aren't very logical in their thought progression.

If you still don't understand what I am attempting to say, I hope at least others do.

By the way I fully understand what you are saying. the point then concerns what is intended by the author in this debate.

I'm getting a bit frustrated by the whole Obama commie socialist thing. His polices are much closer to the last Bush than the man I thought I voted for.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 01:15 | 453886 dcb
dcb's picture

The US Obama Administration has focused entirely on an agenda of expanding government — the seizure of the envied (and often ephemeral) “wealth” of the producers —

the statement above is just silly. you don't say this and force people into for profit insurance. you don't have record banker bonuses while main street suffers. Obama (showing big time via Bernanke, geithner, summers) if a corporate guy. these folks would have never been appointed or reappointed if he wasn't.

When the wealth comes from corporate crony goverment capiatialism it isn't wealth. taking money from bankers that failed (but now were bailed) isn't stealing from producers.  covernment /tax payer money has been systematically diverted to the wealthy.  there is overwhelming data to support this.

it is the crony capitialist/governemt axis that ensures those connected always make profits and never fail that has goten us into trouble. By the way. putting back regulations that worked for this country for 70 years (seperation commercail and investment banking) isn't some socialist plot. It was good enough for many republican presidents. Remember Clinton (the democrat) really rolled back banking regulations. I do not consider that deciding the removal of regulations were a mistake, and putting them back to be an expansion of government.  We aren't even getting the financial reform we deserve,a dnwe know it will happen again. the white house itself has fought agains the toughest regulations. the were/are against the audit the fed (which is supported by about 80% of the people.

People are just saying stuff that isn't supported by the data.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 03:15 | 453936 jeff montanye
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sounds pretty good to me.  however it is not contradictory to say obama, as bush before him, seeks to expand the power of both corporations and the government at the expense of the individual.  the obama/bush policies on incarceration/rendition (and now assassination) clearly are expansions of government power.  

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 12:56 | 453146 Mr. Anonymous
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Government is a stooge, a lackey, for the real power.  Government, in and of itself, is inert.  Who controls it gives it the direction to become what it will.  This is more diversion from the simple, overarching truth that we are an oligarchic fascist state controlled by the monied interests.

The heart of this false meme can be observed in the ongoing agit/prop campaign that it was, essentially, the government forcing banks to lend money to undeserving people for the 'socialist' agenda of a home for everyone, rather than the facts on the ground wherein a system of crony capitalism allowed lobbyist to use soft and hard money to get compliant legislators to write the laws and overturn the regulations that led to the most outsized profits in history and the seeds for our own economic collapse.

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 13:01 | 453154 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

compliant legislators

...doesn't sound like an inert government to me.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 13:47 | 453216 LeBalance
LeBalance's picture

lol...that's all show, CFR writes everything, tells the CON-critters when to eat a BLT and how much mayo goes on it, too.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 13:55 | 453227 Mr. Anonymous
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I mean, the initial state of government is 'inert', waiting to be acted upon.  But as soon as whatever prevailing force takes the reins, whether it be monied interests or the People themselves or any other dominant power block, it becomes an agent of change in that direction. Government is the golem to be commanded to wreak its havoc.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 13:19 | 453179 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

The question is, who is John Galt?

Hard work and heavy investment occurs more intensely when the natural incentives for them are not destroyed.

The current Pelosi-Reid-Obama bunch destroys these incentives with their vindictive, punitive measures toward work and investment, and by the rewards they hand out in effect for not working, not saving, not investing.   This is what is happening, now.   We're in the beginning stages of a general retreat by the productive and prudent, in the face of unproductive pillagers voting themselves goodies on the backs of the productive and prudent.   Incentives and individuals will make or break this country.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 16:04 | 453371 gmrpeabody
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+100

The people junking you are living off our taxes!

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 19:00 | 453544 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Negative, pea-brain, the people junking the two you are are ACTUALLY paying the taxes, and know just who ain't paying their taxes, sonny!

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 18:35 | 453526 RockyRacoon
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Whew (wipes brow).  So now we know the real problem -- it's the Democrats

I'll rest easy now. 

No need to look further; I'll just vote for Republicans and that'll fix everything.

Tue, 07/06/2010 - 00:42 | 453850 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Lesser of two evils.  That's your choice at the ballot box under our political system.

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 19:27 | 453570 DosZap
DosZap's picture

TBT,

+1000, Dead fkin on............anyone with half a brain can see that.

The current Pelosi-Reid-Obama bunch destroys these incentives with their vindictive, punitive measures toward work and investment, and by the rewards they hand out in effect for not working, not saving, not investing.   This is what is happening, now.( Except for the recently unemployed, you have descibed the majority of the Welfare state).

]

   We're in the beginning stages of a general retreat by the productive and prudent, in the face of unproductive pillagers voting themselves goodies on the backs of the productive and prudent. 

Yes sir,we are....................that's why the Unemployment numbers continue to climb, corporations,middle/small sized business, is not going to HIRE a soul, unless they know what the cost is, and how the new SOCIALIST policies are going to affect the bottom line.............any PRUDENT businessman/woman, Corprpration, is doing JUST that.

 

  Incentives and individuals will make or break this country.( Yeah, it's called Capitalism).

Mon, 07/05/2010 - 13:25 | 453189 Seal
Seal's picture

bedda red than ded

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