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Guest Post: New Hampshire Man Lights Himself On Fire To Protest America's Decline

Tyler Durden's picture


From Simon Black of Sovereign Man

New Hampshire Man Lights Himself On Fire To Protest America's Decline

Late last week, Thomas James Ball reached his breaking point. Driven
to desperation by a system that bankrupted him and destroyed his family,
Ball walked up to the main door of the Keene County, New Hampshire
courthouse, doused himself with gasoline, and lit himself ablaze.

Hardly anyone seems to have noticed.

Conversely, when a 26-year old Tunisian man lit himself on fire a few
months ago after police confiscated the fruits and vegetables he had
been selling without a proper permit, it launched a wave of revolution
across the Middle East.

People were shocked into taking action… protests and riots swept the region and one regime after another crumbled.

Rather than sparking an “American spring” and shocking US citizens
into taking their country back, though, Mr. Ball’s act of
self-immolation seems to have been largely ignored. There has been scant
coverage (and scant is being extremely generous) of Mr. Ball in the
mainstream media, and what little coverage there is generally discredits the man as a troublemaker.

This is how the system’s gatekeepers have been so adroit at
maintaining the status quo– by suppressing dissent, marginalizing the
detractors, and distracting the populace with meaningless, irrelevant

Mr. Ball left behind a lengthy missive prior to his suicide, which
covers a range of topics from political corruption to why the family
court system in America is utterly disgraceful. He was, to put it
mildly, a staunch advocate of violent change, and it’s clear he hoped a
great deal of others would follow in his footsteps to literally burn the
system down.

(Ball even left instructions for how to make a proper Molotov
cocktail along with specific vulnerabilities of police stations in his

Perhaps the most interesting part of his final post, however, was the
observation that the United States is no longer a nation of laws; Ball
described what he calls the ‘second set of books,’ which is essentially
the collection of policies, procedures, and protocols that courts and
executive agencies rely upon.

This includes police departments and other ‘enforcers’ across the
country that come up with standardized responses to take judgment out of
the equation. TSA agents, for instance, are only following procedure
when they fondle children at airport checkpoints. Even the guys who
drove the trains to the concentration camps were just following

Ball argued that the nation is now ruled by such procedures, even in
such institutions as family court where judges (by policy) pass the buck
down the line to mental health case workers.

His anger and desperation for this system, which tore apart his
family and bankrupted his finances, led Ball to light himself ablaze at
the local courthouse in a state whose motto is “Live Free or Die.” Ball
chose the latter.

The next day, life went on in America. There was no shocking
front-page cover story or award-winning photograph to spark a national
debate… let alone propel droves of fed-up citizens to flood the streets
demanding change.

Rather, the New Hampshire courthouse cleaned up his charred remains
and meticulously scrubbed the floors to eliminate all trace of the
event. 24-hour news networks ran a quick blurb in their scrolling
tickers amid more important coverage of the Miss USA beauty pageant and
President Obama’s Father’s Day plans.

In other words, business as usual… suggesting that if there is, in
fact, going to be a fight for the soul of the country, it’s a long way
off, and many more degrees for the boiling frogs who are stuck in the

My assessment of this situation, however controversial it may be,
remains very clear: the great faceless enemy that opposes us,
irrespective of our country of origin, is the institution of government.

Over time, this institution has inserted itself into nearly all
aspects of life, such that a man cannot so much as enjoy a pint of beer,
discipline his children, ride on the train, go to the doctor, open a
bank account, apply for a job, go fishing, or watch a sporting event
without the heavy hand of government being involved.

This is a beast that feeds on citizens; the more it feeds, the larger
it becomes and the hungrier it gets. Of all the solutions out there,
including armed conflict, civil disobedience, self-immolation, active
democracy, etc., the only one that truly destroys the beast is starving
it– take away the feast of productive citizens and accelerate its


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Mon, 06/20/2011 - 13:33 | 1385299 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Nobody noticed...


Must have been during Dancing With the Stars.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 13:38 | 1385336 AnonymousAnarchist
AnonymousAnarchist's picture

It's because they don't check the ICYMI News Feed (RSS) daily.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 13:51 | 1385368 Manthong
Manthong's picture

"And though the past has it's share of injustice
Kind was the spirit in many a way
But it's protectors and friends have been sleeping
Now it's a monster and will not obey

America where are you now?
Don't you care about your sons and daughters?
Don't you know we need you now
We can't fight alone against the monster"

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:48 | 1386339 bernorange
bernorange's picture

The man he stepped up to the microphone and he gave it a kiss.
It was a big wet, slippery kiss.
And he had sweat dripping off of his nose onto the windscreen.
As he looked out over the audience he said,
God bless you, God bless you one and all.
Then he took a can of ronson lighter fluid
And he squirted it over the top of his head.
And proceeded to light himself on fire
As he stood there glowing and said,
Remember this day.
(God bless you, God bless you one and all)
(Remember this day)

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:45 | 1385686 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

The revolution will not be televised.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:37 | 1385952 Michael
Michael's picture

The USA now has it's first self immolation protest by Thomas J. Ball, 58, of Holden, Mass.,

Thank goodness it happened in the most free state in America, New Hampshire. Perhaps they will release the surveillance video of the incident so we can put it on Youtube. Or we could do a photoshop re-enactment of this mans American nightmare. 

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 17:54 | 1386579 osh
osh's picture

based on this story, i'm beginning to have my doubts about having a revolution at all

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 18:13 | 1386637 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

you doubt the outright stupidity of the Washington Lobby Whores then do you? Fret! Not!! they are getting dumber by the moment and the people will at some point, sooner than later be getting hungrier by the moment.. which will seal ALL! of our fates!!

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:30 | 1385944 Tenma13
Tenma13's picture

lol was thinking the same thing :P 'Nothing to see here, move along' oh wait, no one was actually stopping in the first place. 

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 17:37 | 1386507 WeekendAtBernankes
WeekendAtBernankes's picture


Maybe nobody cares because he is a grown man who hit a four year old girl in the face so hard she started bleeding.

Hmm, again.  His wife left him and took the girls?  I wonder why.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 17:56 | 1386586 watchingdogma
watchingdogma's picture

Sometimes when my lips are chapped - they start bleeding for no reason at all. 

But of course - this guy deserves to be burned alive.  Too bad we couldn't keep him alive while he burned - so he could experience real hell on earth.  F'n pussy.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 23:08 | 1387687 WeekendAtBernankes
WeekendAtBernankes's picture

Not sure if you're being sarcastic or not.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 23:46 | 1387785 watchingdogma
watchingdogma's picture

I am sure that this wasn't your first clueless moment.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 19:51 | 1386926 RingToneDeaf
RingToneDeaf's picture


Arriving home after work one evening our trio of monsters celebrated my arrival. Their mother was face down on the kitchen table sobbing uncontrollably.

I understand and take pity on a woman who drowns her children under duress. Because we had at times 3 little demons that looked like angels that we loved very much.

We are all going to pay just like I told the kids at the time they would pay for beating down dear ol' Mommy. Most nowadays just throw away their kids. Check out statistics for children not living with either parent.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 23:20 | 1387710 WeekendAtBernankes
WeekendAtBernankes's picture

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.  I certainly understand that kids can be extremely frustrating and downright bad at times.

I'm not anti-discipline.  Spanking is one thing, but it's not like someone just administers a "disciplinary slap" to a four year old and she starts bleeding (for licking his hand, of all things).  It's that, coupled with the psychological implications of the guy lighting himself on fire, that lead me to believe there is more to the story than what he talks about in his "manifesto".

I'm not in denial about the anti-family domestic policies in our country.  I'm just sayin' that this man does not warrant much sympathy from me.

Haters want to junk because I point out he's not innocent.  Have they considered that his kids were innocent?  

My sympathy is with the little girl he slapped.  It's not hard to imagine that she's blaming herself for daddy's immolation.  What a shame.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 04:06 | 1388197 MSimon
MSimon's picture

One mistake by him and you lose sympathy for his family? Uh. OK.


He made a mistake and the system destroyed his family? Why did the system do that? You need only look at the incentives.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:40 | 1385661 illyia
illyia's picture

Why would anyone get junked for posting a link?

It really isn't funny.

It's stupid.

Just saying...

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:20 | 1385861 Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

There's lots of faggots on here that just really enjoy touching other peoples junk.  Can't take it personal, they are probably just TSA workers, doing what they're trained to do.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:05 | 1386141 Dental Floss Tycoon
Dental Floss Tycoon's picture


Why would anyone get junked for posting a link?

Tom Ball is a reproach to all the statist assholes that think supporting the government is the patriotic thing to do.  

This subject seems to force people to take sides.

Project Mayhem is approaching people.  Which side you gonna be on?

Dying is not the worst evil.  Live free or die.


Mon, 06/20/2011 - 17:57 | 1386589 watchingdogma
watchingdogma's picture

DFT - I'm on your side

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 01:24 | 1387873 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

DFT - I am not on your side and I'm not against you.

I just want to know what the over/under is on self-immolations in the continental US is before the year is out.

Because if I need to play the over/under on self-starters in New Hampshire before the end of 2011, I'm taking the under.  You should, too.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 17:16 | 1386450 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

This is apparently an inflammatory topic.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 13:33 | 1385312 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Please don't forget the government subsidized banksters and their institutions as part of this desttructive smothering leviathan.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:44 | 1386013 Unholy Dalliance
Unholy Dalliance's picture

I didn't junk you for what you said. I junked you for your inability to S-P-E-L-L.


That goes for half the illiterate clods who post at ZH. As for the ones with creepy, far-right political opinions, words (spelt correctly) fail me!

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:56 | 1386076 Crab Cake
Crab Cake's picture

Some people post from their phones, and it's easy to mistype.

Besides it really isn't about the content or thought of a post, it's about whether it's perfectly edited; right?

Thanks for being the boards second grade teacher. Fucking asshat.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:58 | 1386087 fuu
fuu's picture

Totle Ashat

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:49 | 1386016 Unholy Dalliance
Unholy Dalliance's picture

I didn't junk you for what you said. I junked you for your inability to S-P-E-L-L.


That goes for half the illiterate clods who post at ZH. As for the ones with creepy, far-right political opinions, words (spelt correctly) fail me!

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:00 | 1386118 planetes
planetes's picture

Umm.. So why did you post the same response 7 times?  That falls in its own category of failure.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 17:10 | 1386414 naughtius maximus
naughtius maximus's picture

This is an informal forum not acadamia. Now slither back to that hole you came from.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:49 | 1386018 Unholy Dalliance
Unholy Dalliance's picture

I didn't junk you for what you said. I junked you for your inability to S-P-E-L-L.


That goes for half the illiterate clods who post at ZH. As for the ones with creepy, far-right political opinions, words (spelt correctly) fail me!

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:49 | 1386020 Unholy Dalliance
Unholy Dalliance's picture

I didn't junk you for what you said. I junked you for your inability to S-P-E-L-L.


That goes for half the illiterate clods who post at ZH. As for the ones with creepy, far-right political opinions, words (spelt correctly) fail me!

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:50 | 1386039 Unholy Dalliance
Unholy Dalliance's picture

I didn't junk you for what you said. I junked you for your inability to S-P-E-L-L.


That goes for half the illiterate clods who post at ZH. As for the ones with creepy, far-right political opinions, words (spelt correctly) fail me!

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 20:42 | 1387150 knowless
knowless's picture

i chose the one in the middle to reply to.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:51 | 1386046 Unholy Dalliance
Unholy Dalliance's picture

I didn't junk you for what you said. I junked you for your inability to S-P-E-L-L.


That goes for half the illiterate clods who post at ZH. As for the ones with creepy, far-right political opinions, words (spelt correctly) fail me!

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:49 | 1386053 Unholy Dalliance
Unholy Dalliance's picture

I didn't junk you for what you said. I junked you for your inability to S-P-E-L-L.


That goes for half the illiterate clods who post at ZH. As for the ones with creepy, far-right political opinions, words (spelt correctly) fail me!

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:52 | 1386074 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I'm gonna have to call that a Fail, Mr. Self-Righteous.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:59 | 1386090 fuu
fuu's picture

if yer gonna slapp othur peeple round four missspellings u shuld lern to post

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:04 | 1386137 Ura Bonehead
Ura Bonehead's picture

I didn't junk you for how you spelled.  I junked you for your inability to U-S-E  A  C-O-M-P-U-T-E-R.

Fortunately the poor spellin' illiterate clods on ZH now how to avoid double, triple, quad.... posts.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:39 | 1386316 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

i think that many multi-postings qualifies as self-immolation on ZH....


Mon, 06/20/2011 - 17:54 | 1386580 Kayman
Kayman's picture


Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:23 | 1386245 Widowmaker
Widowmaker's picture

You speak of enablers of corrupt government.

Banks and incorporation.

TBTF owns you.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 13:38 | 1385320 QEsucks
QEsucks's picture

This is the dbag that punched his 4 year old for licking his hand?

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 13:38 | 1385335 Transformer
Transformer's picture

Yeah, he coldcocked her, knocked her out, broke her jaw.   /sarc

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 13:49 | 1385388 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I dont think its funny at all Transformer.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:02 | 1385467 Cdad
Cdad's picture

We had a very prolonged comment battle on this over the weekend, Dog.  He slapped his kid, and a contingency of folk took the position that this was child abuse.  The sarcasm above is directed at the crowd.

And by the way, I have yet to hear even a modicum of intelligence from the side that equates all corporal punishment with child abuse.  And none of them will stand up for the absurd circumstances the State put him in after it entered as judge and jury.

A whole lot of emtion on this matter...and very little thought.  Oh, and in the meantime, lost is the intent of SB's commentary...and the man's death, for that matter.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 18:08 | 1386629 Old Poor Richard
Old Poor Richard's picture

He slapped her.  Probably hit harder than he meant, and it certainly was an accident that he cut her lip.  That's not child abuse, period

Child Protective Services, therapists, cops, social workers, family courts are engaging in systemic terrorism against ordinary, innocent families.  These malicious thugs will destroy families with deliberate intent and inexhaustible vigor.

My daughter is having trouble in kindergarten.  She was perfectly fine through 5 years of day care, but in the trashy public school environment, she is withdrawn and has low self esteem caused by the system and her peers.  And we as parents have already been threatened by the school "counselor" who doesn't even have a PhD with the mandatory reporting law because we've smacked her for misbehavior akin to what happened in his case.  Not hitting in anger, but in correction, after repeated offense.  We've told her that she can trust her teachers and tell them anything--knowing full well that she might say something that will plant her in a foster home to be raped, while my wife and I rot in jail simply because we've slapped her a couple times in her entire life, or have yelled at her.  It is terrifying.

That girl he slapped is now 14.  And her dad is gone.  He won't sit with pride at her graduation, won't walk her down the aisle when she gets married.  For the rest of her life she will live with the fact that simply because he smacked her one time when she was 4 years old, and her mom was intimidated by a lying bastard therapist, it activated the terrorist child protective system which bankrupted him, his wife, his kids and finally led to his death.

This should put people on fucking notice: calling the police and accusing a partner of domestic violence or child abuse is the nuclear option.  You can't ever undo the damage caused by a single arrest.  People lose their jobs, lose their kids, lose their lives.  If you or your kids are in danger, then you should call the cops, you should get your abuser out of your life permanently.  But if this is somebody who you want to be in the house the next day, the next week, you'd better not fucking call.  Because once you've called, your own life will never be the same either--with your partner gone, in jail, jobless, bankrupt, dead.


Mon, 06/20/2011 - 18:56 | 1386756 trav7777
trav7777's picture

do you think women CARE?

I had the cops called on me 3 times I think.

The women WILL hurt the kids just to get to you because unlike them, you REALLY CARE about the children as a person severable from yourself.  That is the difference.

A divorce and custody is not about what's best for the is about revenge against you

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 19:11 | 1386793 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Awww, is wittle twav a bitter wittle guy?

I think he is.  Yes, he's a bitter wittle guy.

Good to know you aren't allowed to beat your children anymore, you sack of shit.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 19:22 | 1386811 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Sometimes women may be out to get the guy.

However given trav's avatar he may not be the easiest person to get along with, but i still love you trav, and you too mosely.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 20:12 | 1387046 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I never beat my children you motherfucker.  After this type of libel, what's next to come from your mouth, you freaking repugnant piece of shit?

Not bitter at all...I won.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 20:25 | 1387093 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Always attack.

Never dig in.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 23:42 | 1387765 AssFire
AssFire's picture

I think I'll go with Trav and what worked until 25 years ago.

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 04:20 | 1388202 MSimon
MSimon's picture

Some kids can get PTSD when slapped around. Often they turn to drugs for relief.


Hitting kids is a VERY BAD IDEA. Unless you have done a genetic scan and are sure they are not susceptible to PTSD.


That said the whole government response to this man's mistake was to destroy his family. Stupid. And Evil.

Simon's Law:

It is unwise to attribute to malice alone that which can be attributed to malice and stupidity.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 13:39 | 1385345 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Where did you find that information? Just read ALL related news stories listed and they only mention he was in divorce and custody proceedings.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 13:46 | 1385393 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

There was another post on ZH about this guy this weekend.

I am not prepared to wave a banner for a guy who begins his story by telling us it's ok to bloody his daughter for licking his hand.

He sounds like a class A nut job.


Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:02 | 1385464 redpill
redpill's picture

The other thread where this was posted disappointed me, because so many people latched on to the fact that the guy was a bit of a fuckup, and slapped his daughter when he shouldn't have. In fact many posters said, "I stopped right there" and basically felt that if someone does that then they have no problem with the state doing whatever it wants to them. That is a horribly dangerous and ignorant position to take. I'm certainly not apathetic when it comes to child abuse, it is abhorrent and needs to be stopped when it is truly occurring. We don't have enough information about this case to make that determination, but we can ask whether the events in question and the behavior of our social services, law enforcement, and family court system acted in a fashion that were a benefit to this family and society, or to its detriment.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:04 | 1385477 Cdad
Cdad's picture


Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:11 | 1385512 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Sad, even most Zerohedgers display why america is so fucked up. Some guy once smacked his kid, found not guilty of child abuse, nevermind all that, he's clearly a piece of shit.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:18 | 1385545 Cdad
Cdad's picture

It was very disappointing, Dog, the relative numbers in the brotherhood that have been brainwashed on this matter, parenting group think, county human services propaganda, dumbass school counselor diagnosing, etc.  This not to mention the surrender of liberty.

My theory is that we are dealing with a group of brothers that are not parents, or are not involved in parenting.  And as such, it seems understandable...until you see the absolute wipe out of the family CAUSED BY THE STATE in this case...which the brothers should be able to see...but don't.

Apparently, this is a very complicated issue for some.  Not for me.



Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:28 | 1385612 trav7777
trav7777's picture

try saying something anti black around here if you think it's bad.

the PC mindfuck has a lot of supposed "freethinkers" completely wrapped up.

Talk about eugenics or IQ or biology.  Step outside the box; see what happens.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:41 | 1385684 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Peak Political Correctness

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:50 | 1385703 tmosley
tmosley's picture

There's a difference between stepping outside the box, and forcing others to step into the ovens, as you would have them do, you fucking sociopath.

Go die.

Also funny that you tried to play the PC card on me a while back for using the word "nigger" when you specifically want to sterilize 99.999% of all blacks.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:58 | 1385759 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Listen, your obvious attempt to offend and fan the flames aside, the biggest problem in the black American culture today...IS THE STATE.  I did not hear any one mention sterilization here, but you can simply examine the plight of the black family in this nation to see just who is trying to destroy that racial demographic.

Maybe this is a piece of connecting tissue which will help those understand what is at stake, and how it is much lager than a little girl's bloody lip, or a father's corporal punishment or mistake, whichever the case may have been.

Get serious, brothers.


Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:16 | 1385862 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

I agree, the State has had great success moulding the American black.  But they are coming along well with the whites too. 

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:53 | 1386077 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

You think the 'owners' give a shit about race? Maybe insofar as they can get us fighting amongst ourselves for their entertainment and to further their goals. Outside of that, it is what we make of it.

This was attributed to MLK:

I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality... I believe that unarmed truth and unconditional love will have the final word.

Before you say anything, we're still free enough to dream, aren't we?
Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:02 | 1386126 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Trav brought up eugenics, and has been a VOCAL proponent for it in the past, and remains that way today.  He is a death worshipper, and racism is a natural side effect of that disgusting practice.

That said, I agree 100% with you that the problem in the black community is the presence and interference by the STATE.  Some here argue that the plight of the black community is somehow inherent, that they simply possess low IQs and have tiny brains, and as such they are naturally more prone to violence and other antisocial behaviors.  That is 100% bullshit!

You will note that the far more extreme version of state interference comes in the form of the various Indian nations here in America.  The state interferes in their lives more than ours--far more, and the result has been a more extreme version of what has happened to the black community.  Astronomical unemployment, drug and alcohol addiction, economic malaise, and other societal diseases pervade the reservations.

Now the government has extended its reach into our lives.  It now takes away our children, as it did to the Indians of yesteryear, in an attempt to "reeducate" them, and to "rid them of certain bad influences".  And here is the result.  A man driven to the ultimate depth of hopelessness--suicide.  I'm sure Trav rejoices in his heart.  One less human being to compete with for dominance over all mankind.  I, on the other hand, am sad.  Sad at the loss of what was, and at the loss of what could have been had we been free.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:22 | 1386241 trav7777
trav7777's picture

You're a fucking idiot.

Low black IQ predates the welfare state and the white man.  It's present in Africa, too.

Literally every supposed truth idiots like you cling to is a fiction and a fraud, just like you are, mosely-claven.

Injuns were unemployed before and after the white man got here.  Their predeliction toward alcoholism isn't the state, you dumbfuck, it's genetic. 

And I thought you said you were a biologist...ROTFLMMFAO

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:31 | 1386286 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You are very vocal in your insecurities there, Trav.  Perhaps you are a closeted homosexual?  Thus all the talk of wanting to "dominate" me?

Also funny that you claim that low IQ (ie a test invented by white men) preceded the White man.  That sounds pretty stupid to me, Trav.  How do you measure the IQs of the dead?

"Injuns" were unemployed before we got here?  Are you high?  They had an agrarian society before whites brought horses, at which point SOME became nomads.  Also funny that you don't recognize the form of tribalism that they practiced as small scale big government, ie communism.  Yet some were able to form great cities, and nations.  But you like to ignore that, like you ignore ALL data that runs contrary to the shit you pull out of your ass, and that which you cherry pick to support your own notions.

And again, you demonstrate you vast ignorance and, indeed, your low IQ.  I never said I was a biologist.  I am a chemist.  I work with microbiologists.  I make antimicrobial materials and drugs.  What do you do again?  Oh yeah, unemployed.  Imagine that, with your personality.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 19:00 | 1386767 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Why, are you cruising for a new top? 

Low black IQ preceded the white man yes.  If you cannot figure out how the attribute exists independent of the metric, then you are beyond help.

Asians score higher than whites on this test, idiot, so shove the "white men invented" it shit.

Injuns lacked the written word, the wheel, bronze...shit, the list goes on and on.  Who cares about them and their stupid primitive society?  You?  You don't give a fuck.  You want destitute people so you can charge them their pound of flesh for your silver.

Now go lose another half of your life savings, cliff.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 19:21 | 1386808 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yeah, and Asians are bad drivers.  It's in their genes.  They were bad drivers before the white man invented the automobile.  How do I know this?  Blind assertion.

You know, sort of like claiming "Injuns didunt hav no writin".

Nevermind that the wheel is useless without a beast of burden, when they didn't have in America until colonization.  

You are a fucking moron, and I am glad your children were taken from you so you can't contaminate them with your filth.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 21:13 | 1387266 trav7777
trav7777's picture

if you think the wheel only has use to roll shit on, then you are even dumber than I gave you credit for.

You know, mosely-claven, I kind of admire you.  Anyone else would have slinked away and licked their wounds, dropped off ZH and/or gotten another handle.  But you just keep coming back for asskicking after asskicking.  How do you take such abuse and continue to fall flat on your face time and time again and not let it bother you?

My kids weren't taken from me, either.  Oh and heiroglyphs aren't the written word.

Sure, the mesoamericans had a system of writing on par with the egyptians or sumerians 5000 years earlier...WOW.  Still not the written word.

Dunno where you come up with this strawman shit about asians and driving, but whatever.  You are like a dog that keeps coming back for beating after beating, so carry on, cupcake!  Dance for me some more.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 22:32 | 1387556 zgulgar
zgulgar's picture

tmosely /look up history / blacks are low IQ peeps in general /when whites went to africa blacks had no written language  and were barely in the bronze age .

If you follow the theory of evolution and outside environmental stimulis is a factor in growth of a culture or race then why did caucasions or asians invent most of the technological advances ?

I say they were forced to due to simply wanting to stay alive they HAD to invent !

Tho in ancient africa ,life was easy , food grew everywhere , climate stayed the same etc ....

tho for those venturing in other climates ,...lack of  water /food / seasonal changes that were extreme forced

developement simply to survive.

I went on a field trip with my daughter to a music museum / the black musician was doing a exposition on african music , but all the time she was describing the animal skin wrapped drums and the pebble filled shaking sticks i couldnt help but compare the same time frame with Bach, Beetoven.. etc and the full orchestraes that were going on during the same time frame !!!!!!!!!!!!!

average IQ of blacks in africa 70 ........... they have not evolved


Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:18 | 1386213 trav7777
trav7777's picture

No State in Africa is the problem and not with the black community in, for example, the UK.

Africans are the problem with the African community.  They create it.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:39 | 1386302 tmosley
tmosley's picture

So now you are saying there is no welfare state in the UK?


Another genetically inferior race that needs to be extinguished is here:

One might claim that they are the victims of a crappy culture of ignorance and theft, and in most cases supported by the welfare state, but fuck THAT lets just say it's genetic cause Trav said so.  All whites must report for sterilization now.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 19:04 | 1386776 trav7777
trav7777's picture

No, you fucking MORON, I am saying that the welfare state in the UK DOES NOT FUNCTION THE SAME AS THE WELFARE STATE HERE and that there IS NO WELFARE STATE IN AFRICA.

Good LORD, you are fucking stupid.

You and your hardon for the "state" libertardians are all a bunch of ridiculous fools.  blacks' socioeconomic standing has INCREASED due to the welfare state.  LOOK IT UP, dipshit.

Their crime rates and rates of poverty have always been high, here, there, everywhere.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 19:19 | 1386813 tmosley
tmosley's picture

lol, you didn't say anything resembling that.  You said "No state in Africa".  Guess what, there is PLENTY of fucking state in Africa.  It has taken EVERYTHING from them for generations.

But then, you don't want to examine the facts, you just want death for everyone that ever wronged you.  Wife must have left you for her black divorce lawyer, lol.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 21:22 | 1387307 trav7777
trav7777's picture

ROTFL...there is no welfare state in Africa.

The welfare state here GIVES blacks shit in abundance.  It has engineered an entire phony black middle class that wouldn't EXIST but/for state largess.

And somehow you can reconcile these two diametrically opposing datapoints into "the state is the problem."

Yeah, we got it, mosely-claven, the state is at fault because...well because of chickens.  Or clouds.  Or any stupid reason you can concoct.

If the state gives blacks tons of stuff, it's at fault for their problems.  If it doesn't, it's at fault for their problems.  If it takes shit away, it's at fault for their problems.

Just blame whitey for everything, you spineless piece of shit.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 17:49 | 1386552 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Ya well, we all started black and in roughly three thousand years we'll all be milado. You just dont like the fact some hot looking white chicks go for them, makes stiffer competition, pun on words intended. Biology lesson concluded.  

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 20:18 | 1387049 Jerome Lester H...
Jerome Lester Horwitz's picture

Pardon me but did you mean mulatto?

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 21:24 | 1387318 trav7777
trav7777's picture

mulatto?  I don't care what dumb sluts do, to be perfectly honest with you.  They can have at it.  If you want avg 85 IQ genes for your offspring, you are beyond help.

It must frost much asses that white people are to credit for nearly everything we call civilization.  Dunno why you hate yourselves so much for that.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:54 | 1385755 oddjob
oddjob's picture

I never liked Sammy Davis Jr.

He was black, a Jew and gay.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:01 | 1385790 orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture

short and ugly to

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:22 | 1385870 Monedas
Monedas's picture

The recording business had to twist his arm to get him to record "The Candy Man" ? He didn't like it or think it would work ? He was a singer, entertainer ! A good singer ! He was black, Jew, gay?......Republican !!! Monedas 2011 He did like dick.....Nixon !

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:54 | 1386084 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

I didn't care for Sammy Davis Jr. either. The fact that he was black and Jewish had nothing to do with my not liking his persona. I didn't care for his style of music or the way he dressed. In spite of that, I wouldn't belittle the man because he had more talent and put up with more shit to rise to the upper tier of performing than most people ever have to go through. I hadn't heard he was gay, maybe because I never paid much attention to him.

The above in known as a brief critique, not tar and feathers prejudice.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:32 | 1385932 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

The problem I have with your personal prejudices is that labeling a broad homogenization of people by color and labeling the group in a hateful way is the same as many black people in this country blaming a broadly diverse and unrelated homogenized group of white people in a hateful way.

If you have a problem with a particular person, point of view or a group of people that have a common, mutually agreed opinion or agenda and point out in coherent debate what it is you object to I would have no problem with your statements. I might not agree but I would not label you as a hateful racist.

I am sure you have no concept of the difference between a black northern Somalian and a black  business person in Senegal or a black farmer in Ghana. You dump them all together with dark skinned people all over the world. That is why I junk you and other Neo-Nazi perverts who paint entire ethnic groups, religious groups, countries, and continents with the same hateful diatribe.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:47 | 1386000 Fanakapan
Fanakapan's picture

You cannot compare Africans to the coloured community in the USA, when the 'Trade' was abollished in 1807, the USA had to breed from stock, and likely following basic principles of Husbandry, the breeding would have favoured Docility and other traits favourable to a life of Servitude. Blacks from Africa are much more switched on than any Coloured folks of US descent, which probably explains why American Blacks treat their cousins from the Dark Continent with even more disdain than they would accord to Whitey :)

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:31 | 1386275 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I have to ask this of you- are you fking stupid?

Labelling who in a hateful way?  Are you talking to me?  For Christ's sake, when you're this far downthread, include a quote of some kind.

All this crap about hate...what hate?  Point out the hate.

Idiots like you are not worth anyone's time because you are mindfucked dogs salivating at a bell. 

stereotypes wouldn't be stereotypes if they weren't valid (true) statistical generalizations.  Chew on that.

but, with the "nazi" line, you go Godwin's Law and you lose.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:39 | 1386314 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You keep invoking Godwin's law because you know you have lost.

"The law and its corollaries would not apply to discussions covering genocideeugenics (racial superiority) or other mainstays of Nazi Germany, nor, more debatably, to discussion of other totalitarian regimes,or ideology, since a Nazi comparison in those circumstances may be appropriate."

You are a fucking moron.  Just so you know.  This kind of shit is why you are a total failure in your life, and why your wife and children hate you, and are embarrassed to be seen in public with you.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 19:11 | 1386787 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Jeezus H Christ on a crutch, you are a MORON.

Nowhere in this discussion, except where YOU INJECTED IT, were any of these issues under discussion.

Let the other idiot speak for himself; he doesn't need you making an even bigger fool of the both of you, Cliff.

You are the lowest piece of shit; you're going to bring my kids into this?  Typical piece of lowlife trash.  I would punch your fucking teeth in if you said that shit anywhere within reach, you obtuse, fetid slimeball motherfucker

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 19:27 | 1386827 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Your hate will die with you.  It's enough for me to want to endorse the states theft of children.

And no, YOU were the one who started going off about how anyone who "thinks outside of the box" by "suggesting eugenics" and "sterilizing 97% of the population" might be a good idea.

Never mind that the thought never once crossed your mind that the demographic nightmare such a holocaust would create would destroy the world.

But then, that's exactly what you want, isn't it?  Because you are a bitter old shit who beat his kids.  Go die alone.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 21:31 | 1387329 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Drop dead you pathetic motherfucker.

Nothing you say is true and nothing can salve the wounds of reality slapping you over and over again.

Your life's savings has been cut in half and you are bitter because the starving hordes aren't worshipping at your feet in exchange for a day's bread.

You are a pitiful little man.  What type of man brings another's kids into an argument?  You are a bottomfeeder, cliff, a real piece of shit.

Re-read my post if you can't fucking remember what I said and what I didn't.  Moron...go fuck yourself.

Maybe I will give my real name on here so that I can sue you for libel...damages are assumed for the types of accusations you make.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:53 | 1386358 tmosley
tmosley's picture

One more thing--your citation of Godwin's law is CLASSIC abuse thereof.

From wikipedia: 

 Godwin's law itself can be abused, as a distraction, diversion or even censorship, that fallaciously miscasts an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate.

So yeah, congratulations, your dumb ass just Godwin'ed yourself.

I've got a cigar cutter with your name on it, boy.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:19 | 1385566 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

I raised both my kids without slapping them. But I understand some people still hit there kids. However, by his own admission he bloodied his daughter.

This is a level of violence that exceeds my moral character.

Is it good cause to separate a father from his family?

Probably not.

I am sorry that he saw self immolation as the only way out.

But I am not emotionally compelled by this story particularly since I have seen many news reports of monks who have done the same thing for no other reason than an act against oppression in the abstract as opposed to personal plight.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:05 | 1385780 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

I'm glad you never had to face those Nazi's in family court. That's changes things a bit. You are alone and an entire system of professional liars and thieves is arrayed against you. Even your own attorney is usually in on it. You are a liar, a bad guy, a pig, hated, in terrible debt, with an ex and attorney(s) hounding you for money. No matter what you did or didn't do - you are the one that must be torn apart financially and emotionally to justify these court "orders". Yes, this is oppression.

You can't run (shouldn't run) - the kids need you. Although I've heard some guys do run, and the ex wives surrender. Don't know, never tried it.

And it goes on and on for YEARS. Dozens of court appearances in the worst cases by the ex dragging you back in again and again and again. Your own kids testifying against you. Until your children are grown and they can't be manipulated against you any more. I've seen what the Nazi's do.  It puts you under tremendous stress when you are with your children. So the guy made a mistake in slapping the 4 year old, which started all that. That's exactly what the "system" is supposed to do. One mistake and BOOM, decades of pain. 

Do you understand now?  This is not normal, family life what we are seeing here in 2011.  It is an historical nightmare, akin to the times of the Spanish Inquisition.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:06 | 1386148 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

Well said jlee.  A friend's ex-wife almost bankrupted him and his business as she drug the entire affair out for years while he was forced to pay for his lawyer, her lawyer (she didn't have to get a job, don'tcha know), his daughters lawyer, the psyciatrists, alimony, child support, and on and on.  And that doesn't even start to cover the mental anguish.

The feminists should be made to pay. I would suggest burning at the stake like the witches that they are.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:07 | 1386159 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

Well said jlee.  A friend's ex-wife almost bankrupted him and his business as she drug the entire affair out for years while he was forced to pay for his lawyer, her lawyer (she didn't have to get a job, don'tcha know), his daughters lawyer, the psyciatrists, alimony, child support, and on and on.  And that doesn't even start to cover the mental anguish.

The feminists should be made to pay. I would suggest burning at the stake like the witches that they are.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 17:13 | 1386426 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

bottom line...

Do NOT get yourself involved in the system....

sweet mother of not....especially if you are an unmarried male.

Family law was captured by feminists long ago....

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:04 | 1385786 Cdad
Cdad's picture


In my opinion, you continue to miss the point entirely.  Considering all the insight you have shown during my time here, that is disappointing.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:03 | 1385797 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

It's explaining color to a blind man, so I don't blame him. When you seen that shit, your entire opinion of the justice system changes. Quickly. They are going straight to hell unless they repent w/o a doubt.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:11 | 1385818 ZakuKommander
ZakuKommander's picture

Have to side with William here.  Reading the fellow's Last Dissertation, I saw a clear distinction between the monks (I first remember, as a kid, being impressed with those martyrs in Vietnam) and those with troubled personalities who for a variety of reasons simply no longer can cope and choose to end their lives.  This fellow's end was sad, but he was no martyr.  

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:40 | 1385983 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Nothing is normal anymore when you go to Family Court. So your "analysis" is wrong, spectacularly so.

You get trapped and there is nowhere to turn. There are no government resources to help men, only women. Your own attorney is a leach sucking off you. Your family won't believe you, because they weren't in that courtroom.


Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:56 | 1386097 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Has anyone written a how-to on getting a new identity during an illegal amnesty?

Seems that would help some folks get a new start.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 20:04 | 1387005 Oleander
Oleander's picture

I do not know why this was junked. Jlee is correct. Your life is over if a woman cries foul.

No need for her to provide proof. My sister in law took off w/ my nephew. The shelter just took her word for it. We had to track them down and provide proof she had the mental health issues.

If a woman cries abuse the guy is all done.  The is no where for men to turn for help. Noone to pay for thier lawyers. Men can be great parents too.


Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:12 | 1385823 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

I've noticed in Eastern Europe how much LESS disfuntional the younger generation are there than in the US. 

One day i was on a subway and a four year old was having a temper tantrum...very unusual.  The kid's mother reared back and slapped her across the face as hard as she could, knocking the child to the floor.  Everyone nodded in approval.  And you know what.  The kid shut up.  ...yes it was shocking for me, an American.  But gave me pause for thinking.   

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:36 | 1386291 trav7777
trav7777's picture

the girls from there have their heads on and are marriage material by 20.

In the US, good luck...a bunch of 30-something children.  On both sides of the sex divide.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:36 | 1385660 Arius
Arius's picture

sheepdog -

remember "the engineering of consent" ...the BBC documentary The Century of Self - one of the best thing i have ever seen ... (always wonder why brits are so good at analyzing these things) .... to your point it is a huge thing to not be boxed in ... on your observation on ZHedgers keep in mind there are many who might agree w/ you and do not necessarily comment on

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:43 | 1386001 Crab Cake
Crab Cake's picture

Actually SD1, the worst of the worst dwell here at ZeroHedge. The people who should, and indeed do, know better but still do absolutely nothing to stand up for their rights and country but sit behind their computers congratulating themselves that they aren't one of the sheeple... It's pathetic.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:55 | 1386088 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture



Well said. If each one of us was as active as we should be, we'd have had this thing figured years ago.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 18:16 | 1386636 Kayman
Kayman's picture

 Crab Cake

And pray tell, kind sir, why do you pontificate here at ZH ?

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 19:53 | 1386948 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Feeling guilty?

What you are describing my represent your actions, but not mine.  Have I started shooting?  No- not yet.  But, there are those of us who are organizing- not simply pontificating.  I am also fighting JP Morgan/Chase in court, and attempting to prove that their actions on every level from basic credit card accounts to their participation in the Federal Reserve constitute criminal fraud.

Will it work?  I have no idea- I am neither a lawyer nor a banker, but I will be able to look my son in the eye when he is grown, and tell him that I did not stand idly by.  Just have to hope that I'm not saying that as he stands next to me on the line, rifle in hand.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:47 | 1386003 Crab Cake
Crab Cake's picture

Actually SD1, the worst of the worst dwell here at ZeroHedge. The people who should, and indeed do, know better but still do absolutely nothing to stand up for their rights and country but sit behind their computers congratulating themselves that they aren't one of the sheeple... It's pathetic.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:51 | 1386041 redpill
redpill's picture

Not to mention the double-posters, they are the worst of all!

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 20:58 | 1387207 Old Poor Richard
Old Poor Richard's picture

Agree SheepDog, people love to hate.  They think he's a douche for ever slapping his kid when she wouldn't listen--so it's OK that he burned to a crisp.

Anybody who can side with the evil child protection racket is the biggest, ugliest, stinkiest douche in the room.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:38 | 1385671 Josey Montana
Josey Montana's picture

Yeah, I mean once you're a child-slapping POS you're a real POS.   You deserve to die if you're a POS.  I mean, that's even worse than being Jewish or homosexual or something.  I think all POS must be killed in the name of decency.  And you know, most everyone could be a POS so let's just get it over with. 



Mon, 06/20/2011 - 17:19 | 1386447 TheLurker
TheLurker's picture

Based on what this guy said in his fare-the-well letter, his wife didn't necessarily disagree with his actions. She told him to cool off, then called a counselor who told her to call the cops or she was also responsible, and then called the police. Again, if you believe what he said, his wife was compelled to turn on her husband to protect her children from the State. That's beyond fucked up. It is Stasi-kinda fucked up.

Pretty much what Black and Ball are saying is that we are now chattel. State chattel. To my mind, the logic is sound. My wife is a "mandated reporter" in my state. Legally accountable for not being vigilantly suspicious. It's a ridiculous situation to be put in.

True story: 10-year-old obviously forges his parent's signature on a shitty report card. Kid is sent to the principle. Principal asks "why." Kids says something like "I'm afraid of what they'll do." Parents are called in for a surprise meeting with state family services. The kid didn't want to lose his x-box for a week.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 23:20 | 1387717 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Gully Foyle posted a link later in this thread, I'm bumping some quotes for anyone who wants additional information but is loathe to stick with reading the many "opinions" and off-topic in-fighting:

Ball was set to appear in court on June 24 for not following a judge's order that he pay half of his children's medical expenses — $2,062 — that his ex-wife, Karen Ball of Jaffrey, had paid.


“My story starts with the infamous slapping incident of April 2001,” he wrote. While putting his 4-year-old daughter to bed, she began to lick his hand, he warned her three times to stop then slapped her. 


Ball cut her lip, and his wife asked him to leave the house, he wrote.


She called the police, and he was told he could not return that night. The next day police arrested him at work, booked him and returned him to work, Ball wrote.

Ball told his boss he did not think the couple could work out their differences and he no longer trusted her judgment. At the time Ball worked for a Ford dealership in Winchendon, Mass.


Karen Ball filed for divorced three days after the slapping took place.


Court documents quote the girl saying Ball struck her in the mouth until she bled.


The girl, now 14, reported to Jaffrey police at the time that Ball pushed her on her back, hit her a lot and she was bleeding.


The couple have two other children — a 17-year-old daughter and an 11-year-old son.


Ball admitted striking his daughter three times with an open hand across her face, but maintained it was “appropriate discipline,” the court documents said.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 13:59 | 1385472 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Difficult subject. Some of his critique is right on with respect to "adminstrative law" if you want to call it that.  Wherever you have institutionalized  power you will have cases of abuse, whether it is governmental power or parental power.

The power of his self-immolation, as a message, is weakened by his personal failings. 

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:38 | 1385669 hedgey
hedgey's picture


personal failings.  You be president and yur 'personal failings' get you traction for being honest n down to earth...peanut farmer to Mena Ark dope smuggler, the common touch is what really counts.  Flunk out of NG air training and learn how to drops syllables from your Ivy League Bonesman jive talk and you get to move into the WH. Immolate yourself to protest the complete abandonment of country and constitution to the witless hordes of collective correctidue and yu lose due to 'personal failings'...

what a nightmare freak show this country has become.

Hey, I'm not arguing with yur analysis, just adding to the sauce! 


Tue, 06/21/2011 - 00:27 | 1387860 underpants
underpants's picture

What you said bro! Not condoning hitting his kid but when the fuck did everyone lose all sense of perspective?  Can no one discern degrees of behavior anymore?

Tue, 06/21/2011 - 04:40 | 1388214 MSimon
MSimon's picture

Flunk out of NG air training


Which one did that? I must not be watching enough Dan Rather.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:08 | 1385496 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

So the guy basically smacked one of his kids once, therefore hes a piece of shit...whatever.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:26 | 1385604 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

No, I don't think that at all.  Family courts are a travesty, indeed.  There ARE some covens of man-hating bull-dykes in social services.  But, as a symbol, he's flawed, that's all -- and he chose to use himself as a symbol. 

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:39 | 1385651 fuu
fuu's picture

Most of our founding fathers in America were flawed individuals with lots of baggage. Slave owning, denying voting rights to non land owning white men, etc and yet we still hold them in high regard.


Do you have to be a Buddhist monk before you can use yourself as a symbol?

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:48 | 1385699 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

That was very powerful and is to this day.  Why? Because the man (monk) was revered.  The founding father's kicked butt, different kind of symbol than self immolation.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:13 | 1386191 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

Who the hell isn't flawed? The Founding Fathers were ahead of their times in fighting traditional injustice and leaving behind a great document to aspire to. Some people dismiss them because they are judged by today's commonly held social values and a world that functions for the most part in an entirely different manner than it did then.

They were great men who risked everything they had including their lives to promote the common good and succeeded. We need contemporary people like them to first petition their government for a redress of grievances. Then, in the course of events, we hold the truth to be self evident that a huge government run by lawyers that have little real life experience wanting to retain all their self awarded perks is detrimental to all but the ruling class.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:23 | 1386242 fuu
fuu's picture

Thank you for making my point.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 18:21 | 1386647 Kayman
Kayman's picture


You know, when you think about it, we're all flawed. /sarc off/

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:17 | 1386194 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

She was licking his hand and he slapped her in the face hard enough to cut her lip. That alone doesn't make him a piece of shit, but it tells me he's got some serious issues. I took my share of whippings when I was growing up, but my parents never slapped my face. Kind of crosses the line, in my opinion, between discipline and abuse. Others will disagree, I'm sure, but the punishment seems a little excessive for the "crime". However, it doesn't change the fact that the system is fucked up and this guy had reached the end, and his protest by self-immolation was swept under the rug by the MSM.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 17:12 | 1386431 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

wonderdog FTW

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:18 | 1385562 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

I wouldn't suggest waving any banners either, least of all that of a child abuser.

However, we cannot discredit the ideas associated with the man based on the man himself. That is illogical. Even hitler uttered the odd truthful statement (and they don't get much more nut-jobish than that human filth).

Of course, his message may be the ramblings of a lunatic, in which case we would discard his thoughts. I'm going to go read this guy's missive to determine coherence.

You catch my drift though?

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:52 | 1385715 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

There are so many unbelievable stories of people being trampled by our system. This is not the best case to put forth as an example. The tenor of the discussion here confirms this.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:22 | 1385872 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

I can agree with that without reservation.

I simply wish to suggest that we not immediately throw the baby out with the bath water.

I read his last statement. I have to say, he needs to brush up on his statistical analysis, though he does raise some interesting thoughts.

This is a tough one. My heart goes out to his family; as a survivor of suicide, I know how painful such a thing is. It's made all the worse now that it seems to be all over the internet.


Have a good week WB7.




Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:36 | 1385961 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Family Court proceedings are private. Trials are CLOSED, the public cannot attend. This is intentional to hide what's really happening in there behind closed doors. Recordings are routinely destroyed if you won't pay for a transcript.

Whenever you object, "they" raise the privacy of the children as the reason for the secrecy. So all those "cases" are true. This really is what's been happening back there. 

Funny, when Barack Obama was running for Senate in 2006 his opponent was discredited because certain "Family Law" unproven allegations suddenly became public - the Jeri Ryan case. So privacy of the children didn't matter much there.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:20 | 1385572 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Of all the constructive things he could have eventually done for his children, regardless of externally imposed bureaucratic inanity, he chose to abandon them, forever.  Didn't cheer on Joe Stack and don't understand Sovereign Man's obsession with this guy.  Two dark examples of the self-destructive nature of nursing moral outrage and righteous indignation.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:54 | 1385724 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

He chose to abandon them? Are you a fucking idiot?  The courts forced him to separate from them.  STFU

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:08 | 1385792 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Your children are on the other side of a bunch of retarded clowns and circus equipment.  Do you attempt to circumnavigate through said obstructions or do you march down to the nearest Circle K and buy a jerry can full of gasoline and pour it on yourself.  You STFU, "dreamer".

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 18:28 | 1386680 Kayman
Kayman's picture


Wrong metaphor.  Your children are on the other side of the Berlin Wall.

You, clearly, have never had to navigate through Family Court.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 14:52 | 1385744 Josey Montana
Josey Montana's picture

Cthonic:  many thousands of people are discussing Ball's situation and his course of action.  It provokes deep emotions of despair in many of my own circle that read his letter, including my wife.  Many were completely unaware of the Kafkesque world of "family court" and, as we see in the Guerena execution, most of the so-called "justice system".

Re Ball: Perhaps you would rather he went and jumped off a bridge or simply drugged himself to death, or merely suffered in silence.  I can understand why you want that -- it means you never have to come to terms with him or his depersonation at the hands of the state.

As for all the idiots here with their bleeding hearts, crocodile tears, and macho chest thumping over smaking a four year old ...  obviously they are not fathers or they had the most perfectly precocious children ever born.  Pavlovian conditioning is a fact of life and there are several vital concepts necessary to the life and continued well being of four-year old children that cannot be imparted by "time outs" and blabbering.  I am old enough to remember when that decision was made by the child's parents -- usually the father -- and not Big Brother.

Ergo, I conclude most of those bleeding hearts are themselves the product of a Big Brother statist upbringing and their response has more in common with Huxley's "decantation" than being raised by loving parents.

Discipline is not violence.  It is a lesson imparted via nerve endings whose sting and wounds heal in hours.  The lesson is remembered for the rest of one's life.  Admittedly unpleasant for all ("This is gonna hurt me more than it's gonna hurt you") its intention is to prevent even more horrible consequences in the future.  If you do not understand this basic concept, then you are a lost cause and, thankfully, your issue is doomed to Darwinian extinction.

I wish American men, in general, would grow a backbone and put a halt to the madness of our State.  This was a better land when children knew that a smack on the bottom or even across their face was the just and instant reward for misbehavior.  The irony is that the child-pacifists show no qualms about brutal punishment, up to and including summary execution, when meted to those same "children" after they grow up.

Justice demands the punishment fit the crime.  It's ass backwards and some are too foolish to understand.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:07 | 1385821 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Well said.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:18 | 1385854 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Many were completely unaware of the Kafkesque world of "family court"

It's too bad he learned about it the hard way.  You really think his response was apropos?  Then go douse yourself in gasoline and be sure to tell us first.

Disclipline is not violence.

Were you in the house, were you the one slapped around, you little hand lickin' bitch? If not, do you jump to conclusions much?

Justice demands the punishment fit the crime.

No one said otherwise.  I'm no defender of the status quo or our godforsaken legal system. I'm also no defender of this guy's inane solution to the problem.  Next we'll have posters saying suicide bombers are a good thing to introduce to America.


Mon, 06/20/2011 - 16:41 | 1386309 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

This was a better land when children knew that a smack on the bottom or even across their face was the just and instant reward for misbehavior. 

You are fucked in the head. I've never had to lay a hand on my daughter. I've been able to accomplish ANY degree of discipline or deterrent with a stern voice.  A parent smacking their child across the face does nothing to solve any issue. It's quite barbaric actually..

That being said, I don't think his continuing the cycle of abuse he probably experience himself is the issue here. I see many would like to make it the primary focus.. That's too bad.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 17:17 | 1386435 1911A1
1911A1's picture

So your experience with one child is sufficient to declare that all children respond the same way?

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 17:36 | 1386516 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Yeah.. That and a little common sense.. I know it's easier to just smack and kickback.. But getting a child's respect would go a lot further in creating a person with integrity than beating the fear of god into them.. I can't believe this is even argued about to be honest..

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 19:15 | 1386792 trav7777
trav7777's picture

GFD you are're a man?  We're fuckin hopeless with people like you around

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 19:28 | 1386833 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Hey everyone, look, trav the child beater is claiming that beating children is the only way to raise them!

Glad you lost your kids, you sociopathic fuck.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 21:35 | 1387342 trav7777
trav7777's picture

are you aware that saying I beat my kids is actionable libel, mosely-claven?  Do you know what that is, "libel"?

I won my divorce case.  And I am looking for the last half of your life's savings.

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:09 | 1385831 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture


Of all the constructive things he could have eventually done for his children, regardless of externally imposed bureaucratic inanity, he chose to abandon them, forever.

A simply amazing observation...

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 15:23 | 1385890 malek
malek's picture

Whew WB7, "bloodied his daughter"?

I would never have guessed you could still have such Pavlov'ian reflexes...

Mon, 06/20/2011 - 18:56 | 1386758 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

WB7 -- you are seriously thoughtless on this topic.

Are you only a comedian?

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