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Guest Post: Nuclear Japan, Stock Market "Holding Up", Pictures Of 'Reactor' 3 And 4
Submitted by OahuTrading
Nuclear Japan, Stock market "holding up", Pictures of 'Reactor' 3 and 4
I have continued amazement that very few photo from "on the ground" have
been released from day 1. It seems that the plants would have many
cameras built in, and those systems destroyed by the quake or blast
could be replaced with quickly set up cameras and/or robots.
This picture says volumes...."Reactor 3 and 4" are not really facilities
anymore, as opposed to smouldering masses of twisted metal.
From my continuing research, Chernobyl radiation release was pretty bad,
and resulted from direct fire on the uranium and by-products. Now
they say that has already happened in Japan (perhaps). See below for
"Spent Fuel on Fire?!" which is still not 100% clear in my mind.
WORST CASE #1
A scenario in which molten reactor materials -uranium--"perfectly" wraps
around a pool of water, causing a super-heated explosion of steam
launching radioactive materials in a massive blast is the "worst" case
scenario, but what are the odds of this perfectly happening, perfectly
wrong? Very small is the general consensus and I believe that one.
Maybe in the range of 1%, NOT 10%.
WORST CASE #2A
What about a 5000 degF mass of molten reactor materials (let's just say
uranium, although stuff morphs into other stuff that can be worse)
melting it's way through a damaged concrete floor, into a pocket of
water or sea water below the plant, or rolling right into the ocean?
Purely conjecture, but these are the mostly likely worst case scenarios
IMHO.
WORST CASE #2B
And the Chernobyl type scenario, direct fire on the nuclear materials
or, even worse, on the "used" nuclear waste that was being stored at
reactors 4, 5, AND 6. Prior to last night, we never even heard of 5
or 6, now we find that rather than store the waste materials underneath a
big mountain like in western united states, that they decided last fall
to store all the old materials in the facilities next to the working
nuclear plants, on the ocean, on the ring of fire.
From a Russia Expert on Chernobyl, and the storing of nuclear spent materials--
Chernobyl Expert slams storage methods
"Spent Fuel on Fire?!" --this is not clear, but seems quite possible.
Link below is from UN Nuclear Agency saying that indeed a spent fuel
pool was in a fire at Reactor 4, review the picture above. Indeed that
article below is very clear that the fire was at the spent fuel pool,
and that is what caused a huge release of radioactivity.
Corrections, further misinformation, and Pot Shots---
So someone says the fire was at the spent fuel (that would be very bad),
and then someone else says...No, that fire was from an oil leak from a
pump--and then points to a link---of which when you check the link, says
nothing about the location of the fire, just that it was put out in 2
hours. The second link also states how they tried to add water to the
#4 spent fuel pool--and failed. These spent fuel pools have 16 feet
deep water over the top of the used fuel stored in them. FOR
CONVENIENCE, these pools are located at the roof level of the
containment buildings! What is there was a massive earthquake and the
building was cracked, and the water leaked out! What if the
containment building also blew up due to hydrogen explosion.
Here is a direct download described how the used fuel is stored at Fukushima - very scary and enlightening READ IT
http://www.box.net/shared/3kmi4xgqv1
Here are the links to the "Corrections" comment -- the Pot shot part
http://www.chron.com/disp/discuss.mpl/ap/top/all/7474227.html
http://nei.cachefly.net/newsandevents/information-on-the-japanese-earthquake-and-reactors-in-that-region/
Here is the problem: The Authorities are very concerned with all out panic.
The Japanese people have strong morale values, and do not just "lose
it" like would happen in most places already. But at some point, if
they reach the breaking point, it could be a very strong social
reaction.
The governor of Fukushima prefecture, Yuhei Sato, criticised
official handling of the crisis, telling Japan's NHK TV: "The anxiety
and anger being felt by people in Fukushima have reached a boiling
point."
So-the authorities want calmness, they don't want to instill panic.
And thus they feel it necessary to withhold information, which has
obviously been withheld from the very beginning. Also the classic
example of "Denial"....maybe it is not as bad as we think it
is...example...."maybe it is just a coincidence that 4 airplane are off
course and not communicating on 9-11-01". Denial, and hoping to avoid
being "chicken little" should the situation not be as bad as you think
it may be. Very closely related to Denial is "Hope". Hope is a double
edged sword, without hope --the will to take effective action can be
curtailed, but the wrong hope, the ability to see the need for action
can be blocked.
From the Emperor of Japan who rarely speaks in public, but is highly respected.
"I am deeply concerned about the nuclear situation because
it is unpredictable," he said. "With the help of those involved I hope
things will not get worse."
Please read this quote below and then look at the picture at the top of this post.
Nuclear experts have repeatedly stressed that radiation
releases on the scale of Chernobyl are unlikely or even impossible,
given the Japanese plant’s heavier engineering and additional layers of containment. Still, Tokyo Electric said radiation briefly rose to dangerous levels at the plant Tuesday morning and again on Wednesday.
Above from the Washington Post
But people have to make real decisions. Do we encourage our family in
Tokyo to leave at any cost, whatever it takes? Transportation is
difficult, most trains are running, there are blackouts on a regular
basis. Just how bad is it, how bad could it become? Yesterday the
winds were blowing the radioactive steam and such across the mainland of
Japan, today the winds are blowing westerly across the Pacific.
And therein lies the dilemma, all based on poorly provided
information, does one recommend drastic action? Indeed, I would
flee...the cost of fleeing may be fairly dear, but the cost of staying
and have the worst or second worst or third worst scenario play out may
be a very very high cost.
Finally, something to think about, here is one that appears to be a few
days old, from and MIT nuclear "expert" stating in these excerpts--
Well, first off, we can't have a Chernobyl-like situation. The system is designed so that as long as we keep water in there to keep it cool, nothing will happen.
Hypothetically,
if the water all boils and evaporates, then the fuel will stay molten
and eventually melt through the steel vessel. But that's already beyond a hypothetical worst-case scenario for me.
Then
you have the other containment vessel, with a concrete faceplate
underneath that's between four and 10 feet thick. But melting through
that is hypothetical beyond normal reasoning.
And
then, worst comes to worst, there are pumps that can take water from
the local cooling water supply, in this case the ocean, and just pump
water in there. As long as there's water in there, it might be expensive for the utility to get it cleaned up, but everything is going to be fine.
It might be a financial disaster, but no member of the public has been hurt, and I doubt anybody will be.
Here is a link to that MIT "Expert" -- he is already proven wrong at many levels.
Expert describes how bad could it get
This type of thinking reminds me of how our US security "experts" could
not imagine an airliner being used as a weapon. When will we demand
better?
SEE NO EVIL
Chernobyl was attempted to be covered up 100% at the beginning, even
though eventually 600,000 people used as "liquidators" were eventually
brought in to cleanup, the first 200,000 were exposed to heavy
radiation. Some pictures (still in my mind from 1986) showed workers in
normal street clothes shovelling radioactive materials into
wheelbarrows.
Tokyo Electric Power tried to cover up their problems at the start, the
Prime Minister was reportedly extremely mad when they finally fessed up a
little bit 3 hours after it had already become a real problem.
GOOD NEWS
Apparently they are bringing in "Firm Power" meaning a new power line
from other utilities so at least the brave workers at the site have some
real power to help in whatever tasks they are doing while wearing full
suits and humping around huge air tanks on their backs.
I will be out in training all day Wed
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Our local Ayn Rand devotee radio host Charles Adler goes nuts over that Star Trek episode. Says the needs of the many don't mean shit. It's the needs of the few, ie. you, that count.
weekend at Bernies!
You people don't seem to understand that we won't be able to contain this.
This is a slow death of the planet.
The people who don't end up dying via bleeding of the anus will suffer various cancers due to the contamination of the food supply.
Screw the Earth!I just want to laugh with smart people. I see you in my dreams. Bitches!!!
if the situation is saved it will be a Japanese men walking into certain death to save their country.
Agreed, they might start recruiting terminal cancer patients, etc, with little to lose.
Perhaps offering to pay their families.
Put a leashe around my neck. Hell and a bag of Milk Bones. I'm Good
Now the bullshit is running deep. They just said they confirmed there is water in the pools, but don't know if the rods are exposed or not. How the hell could they take a peek at the water and not happen to notice the state of the fuel rods?
Um, ok.
When the rotors on their Helo blades oxodize mid flight.
'pools are located at the roof level of the containment buildings!'
So rods were blown all over town (no pun intended) & some into the sea.
Downside is the kill zone is now wider. Upside is that the fuel is now spaced farther apart, & will be easier to access than a huge blob of melted & burning uranium at the bottom of an empty pool/skatepark.
Again I ask...
Why are people reporting that workers are @ the nuke plant?
....these heroes don't exist.
Anyone find it queer that reports of workers go "missing" or are "killed" yet there somehow always seems to be 50 workers @ the plant? Did we forget how to add and subtract? More importantly did we forget common sense?
There are NO workers at the plant.
They are either dead or were just ficticous to begin with.
4 junks! so far, bob_!
everything seems so flat without the human sacrifice...
The spent fuel tank holds about 2000 tons of water in reactor #3. Taking into consideration wind, heat evaporation, pilot error, and other factors helicopter dousing should fill the tank by December 2017.
They need more heavy lift Helicopters, where are the US ones ???........Oh , my bad... on standby for Ben.
We need to accept that this disaster is not containable and will in fact get worse.
Get out of your dream world and accept it.
-World wide food will be contaminated
-Fisheries will be contaminated
-The air you breathe will be contaminated.
Sorry bitches...that's the truth.
jfc, put a tampon in your sore vagina already
k...
now what?
try pure aloe vera around the eyes?
-World wide food will be contaminated
Already is - Monsanto
-Fisheries will be contaminated
Mercury....
-The air you breathe will be contaminated.
Smog
Done already.
x2!
Perfect!
I doubt it can be any worse than all the nuke testing we did back in the 50's and 60's. It may have consequences but they will have a radius and diminishing effect.
whatever U say, you fuking moronic shitheaded asswipe.
Might I remind you E = Mc2 - the really bad shit got used up in the reaction
In this case, the pedal is not connected to the 4 barrel Carb, the gas is heating up in the fuel bowl and the engines real hot cause the radiators FUBAR.
And in the above example,I was talking about your Brain as well
Bizarre news stream now from Kyodo:
'Gov't monitoring spent fuel pond at no.4 reactor'
'Cooling efforts at no. 3 reactor must be prioritized'
'Cooling of no. 3 reactor more vital than no. 4'
All of above from gov't rather than TEPCO. It sounds almost delirious, or like gov't and TEPCO don't agree on what to do next.
I wonder how much sleep anyone there has had since last Thursday evening.
#3 has MOX fuel.. Plutonium mixed in ... i don't believe there has been an accident with that before.. the effects are pretty much a done deal as soon as you are exposed...
how long is that timeline again Tyler??
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/16/134600825/plutonium-in-fuel-rods-cause-for-concern?ps=cprs
From that link I found this - But officials at the International Atomic Energy Agency say the presence of MOX fuel does not add significantly to the dangers.
Now that is the most truth I have heard yet - beautiful and rounded conclusion
A function of insufficent resources.
Seems to me that maybe the Japanese don't have those synapse thingies in their brain. You know the ones that string things together? I hear them answer a question and it's like they are all on acid or my connectors are bad. The question is jettisoned and a completely different response comes out. It's funny to watch Americans get those responses cause you can see em look at each other like "what did that guy just say"? Why doesn't someone go ask the 50 brave put options what to do? Those stallions are busy working and the PR guy is wondering what freakin bowling team he's going to be on this fall.
jeeeez, hon: we're dealing with the nukuler meltdown from thousands of milez away. down-fuking-wing, unfortunately.
but my point is that we don't have the benefit of the 8.9 quake and the 30-ft tsunami and living within a train ride of the Fukushima Daiichi where an entire generation of nukuler waste is being incinerated.
altho ordinarily it is not the healthiest option to assume the worst about anything, here, it has a pedagogic value in that the more we learn, the more we realize we had no fuking idea what "worst" could have possible meant.
For all intents and purposes Japan is dead.
Contrary to rumor, Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not radioactive wastelands with 3 meter roaches.
The radiation does not hang around for 3 billion years, (like the Greenies brainwashed so many to believe).
To think this means Japan is 'dead' is ... not consistent with Hiroshima's port district today.
This is a health hazard, and a psychological shock, and sometimes it will mean cancer, and we are getting better at treating these.
Japan will definitely recover.
This isn't a nuclear bomb.
Plutonium/Uranium fuel rods have been blown all over the area.
4(Known) reactors are melting and of those at least 2 containment vessels are "cracked"
Humans can't get near the problem even with special suits, robots can't even function in an envrioment with that much radiation. The only way to view the problems with the reactors are with spy planes
The scientists don't even know the full extent of this...
This is truly catostrophic.
If ‘the scientists’ don’t know the extent of it, then they don’t know it is ‘truly catastrophic’. Nor do you. I’m as negative about the current situation as anyone, but saying Japan is for all intents dead … what does that even mean?
PS it was not me who junked you.
Radiation will coat that entire island to unhealthy levels..
The area around the nuclear plant can't be contained without legions of suicidal people.
Just think about it...they can't even send in robots. Doesn't that tell you something?
Not sure what it will take to cool you, but we're not seeing masses of particulate matter coming off the site. Hopefully we won't. I wish we had proper radiation readings but from what's been let out it seems like mostly vapor/steam transport with much higher direct effects on site.
If the spent fuel starts just burning or other material gets involved in a fire, that's when a lot of cesium etc. goes a long way--whether right into Tokyo or across the ocean.
So, pray for no 'grease fires' and Earth--or a subset of Earthly things--may yet be OK.
Unless something really wacky gets going in the cores. Back to the meltdown scenarios. But if you just yell 'CUT!' right now it's not a global catastrophe and not even a Tokyo catastrophe.
A worker catastrophe, sadly, seems very likely regardless.
Yeah, you're right, they'll have this thing up and running by the end of the week. Two weeks from now, they'll be offering tourists free tours of the site.
I do hope your sarcasm meter is working.
Truth IN Sarcasm, is how we roll....
No big fire, no big fallout. Cross fingers and/or entomb radwaste.
You cooled me.
Thanks for that...
ahhhh....all is good and right
Radiation does not "coat" anything, let alone the entire Japanese central Island. Set off a smoke flare, does it "go everywhere"?
And I think we are all very aware of what it will take to deal with the outcome.
But this does not equate to Japan "dead", which was your original hyperbolic assertion. ... rapidly followed by several more.
No, smoke gets on nothing and certainly doesn't go "everywhere"
phew,
thanks guys I was worried this might be a problem for a second.
sorry for getting worried over nothing!
trav, element, jim...you guys are swell
"Doesn't that tell you something?"
Yes. It tells me you are less well educated than the average sixth grader in Japan. Most of them would politely point out that autonomous, self aware robots do not yet exist.
"Radiation will coat the entire island to unhealthy levels."
... and in one of your other posts you said it was going to poison the entire planet. There really are not enough terms define the ignorance of these statements.
Please go back to surfing the internet for your particular brand of porn. We have had trolls and dullards on ZH from the beginning but you are sooooo much less interesting than they were.
barliman
Again - E=MC2 - the bad shit was used to create the heat/energy in the bomb by chain reaction.
in this case Bob is correct - this is radiating the problem stuff Aka Chernobyl waste land
stop junking a clear thinking person
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/science/17plume.html?_r=1
don't get all mellon collie people. Let's get er done. The IQ of this website is heavily into the Thousands.
Shall we discuss entombment? Because the knobs in charge sure ain't.
Who do we have to call? The Dalai Lama? That Facebook dude or those Google guys? Overlord Blankstain?
Entomb 'em. Use every resource available in the entire Pacific Basin. Hell, even those useless Aussies could contribute some sand.
I'm with you Jim ... at some point they will determine the best course of action is to bury the site. But not before all other contigencies are exhausted. Translation: Not until more shit blows up, burns & melts ...
Fukushima skyline will soon sport a gigantic concrete pyramid.
Yeah, what to do. From the images there's a fair sized hill behind that plant ... get catapillar on the horn ... do we have a recovery for you
I guess it is possible. But seems a quite large logistical problem. Chernobyl was one plant, with no structure left above it...it was an open gut waiting to be filled. Here we are talking about at least four structures. If you want to start laying in heavy concrete with some neutron attenuation built into it, and your helicopters can only fly at 500 ft. How long is that going to take, and what will happen in the interim that may have been avoided by trying to reestablish some kind of coolant flow. Okay, the pilots are willing to die, so go lower....how many pilots do you have that will be willing to do that? What government is willing to sacrifice that many pilots? Do you have enough helicopters and fuel available in a country just devastated by an horrible earthquake and Tsunami...do you have the mixing plants within reasonable range of helicopters - that are still operational? Well..I don't know. Maybe you have to trust the people that have the most to lose to make the right decisions. That is not us.
Yes!
Start by dozing fill dirt around the perimeter of the site and encompass the whole site (where possible). Then, start dumping concrete and whatever else is necessary to entomb the whole site. Then, build a more permanent enclosure, and don't let anyone live anywhere near that location again.
So, should they do it before The Grease Fire That Ate Tokyo, or after?
That seems to be the question. I vote 'before'.
jim: thank you for finally saying something intelligent! entombment. it was mentioned here a couple of days ago. yesterday, one of tyler's headlines said: "japan to call in US military" or some such thing.
think about that, jim. think about the scale of engineering needed to cap this site.
so, altho the idea might work on paper, the actual site has gone beyond the realm of human control.
think about that, jim.
so, the idea won't work. any other bright ideas?
exactly!
You have a real dog fetish.
I just thought he liked cantaloupes.
87.7 millisieverts/hr at 300 feet above plant--that's 87,700 microsieverts/hr for those keeping score--or almost a tenth of a sievert per hour (didn't he win the Cy Young award or something?)....
Seems like a full sievert is Not Good For You:
http://library.thinkquest.org/3471/radiation_effects_body.html
Here come some more? 2011-03-17 02:48:02 UPDATED: (M 6.5) VANUATU -17.4 167.7 (4970d)
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Quakes/usc00024wv.php
http://aucanary.blogspot.com/2011/03/earthquake-predictions-for-us-berkl...
Maybe that former USGS guy on FoxNews will turn out to be right in his predictions of the Pacific Northwest getting hit next within the week.
He's probably considered a quack right now, of course, until he's not.
Cue up Jonny Cash's Ring of Fire: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lhf9U5Wf3Q
Cue "Ghost Riders in the Sky" Ramrods: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWTjjm-Gg3c&feature=relatedy
follow up...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjcdCfJlzMo&feature=related
One helicopter trying to dump water? Not enough power cord? Humans doing the work right next to the reactors? No robotics or high tech? I'm fucking confused.
It's quite simple really. See, the extension cord came from a 60hz power source, but the reactor complex is 50hz and they didn't have a converter for the plug end. So, they cut off the end of the extension cord and plopped it in the puddle created by the water drop, thus completing the circuit to the exposed power lines hanging down from the buildings. Now, robots would short circuit rolling through the wet ground, but men in rubber galloshes would be imune to the effects. Not a problem.
Robots even whin wired cannot operate in this environment.
Even if they could thier utility is limited.
In this kind of situation you have to have humans. They can evaluate a problem, relate it to experience, make a decision, and can improvise, and act quickly, then change on the fly if need be. You create a robot to do that...you can buy the world.
this guy is a f****** joker...that stubbon Japanses pride...which has F****** them so many times in history. Japan is gone this time.
DOW JONES NEWSWIRES
Japanese markets are not so destabilized as to justify joint Group of Seven currency intervention or government purchases of shares, Reuters reported Japan's Economy Minister Kaoru Yosano as saying Thursday.
"I don't think stock and currency markets are in a state of turmoil," Yosano said, when asked whether G-7 industrialized nations should jointly intervene in the currency market to stem the yen's gains.
"We would like to get psychological support from the G-7," he said in the report.
He was also quoted as saying that the overall damage to Japan's economy from Friday's massive earthquake and tsunami would be limited.
G-7 finance leaders are due to hold a conference call on Japan later Thursday.
<<< He was also quoted as saying that the overall damage to Japan's economy from Friday's massive earthquake and tsunami would be limited. >>>
Sadly, this scene comes to mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4
TEPCO has a history of underplaying issues...
The Australian: Fukushima nuclear plant owner falsified inspection records
"In 2007, TEPCO ran into trouble again after misinforming government officials about breakdowns at its Kashiwazaki-Kariwa plant, which had been damaged after a magnitude 6.8 quake. In a cable released by WikiLeaks, a US official said: “TEPCO issued a corrected statement on July 18 in which it admitted it miscalculated the amount of radiation leakage.”
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/fukushima-nuclear-plant-owner-falsified-inspection-records/story-fn84naht-1226023073141
Wikileaks is behind the curve on this one and trying to gain something by pointing out things that are already public knowledge...and common. Every utility - especially nuclear ones - have a multitude of safety violations, cover-ups and just outright lies to their discredit. Part of it is that businesses are sometimes socially evil in that they have a bottom-line to protect -especially public ones, they - the utilities - are so ingrained in the everyday operation of these things that they do not always see (as they see as) nit-picking regulations as being relevant. It also has to do with the mind-numbing regulatory environment they operate in (about 25,000 pages) and the pressure from Environmental and whistleblower groups - the latter of which can reap millions for ratting them out on a paperwork violation. I am not defending nuclear power, utilities, or anyone else. If nuclear power is to work, it must work from a close cooperation with government and industry, and possibly from a stock design that is tested and based on past experience, with modifications based on locale and conditions.
This brings me comfort. Wow:
0345: White House confirms conversation between President Obama and Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan: "The president briefed Prime Minister Kan on the additional support being provided by the US, including specialized military assets with expertise in nuclear response and consequence management. Prime Minister Kan briefed the president on the status of Japanese actions to contain the nuclear emergency and to bring the situation under control."That can mean only one thing. Obumble is sending Jimmy Carter in.
This should bring everyone some comfort.
Obama’s going all out to support Japan despite its nuclear difficulties.
Obama Administration Picks Tokyo Electric To Build U.S. Nuke Plant
http://wonkette.com/440692/obama-administration-picks-tokyo-electric-to-build-u-s-nuke-planthttps://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/world/asia/17nuclear.html?pagewanted=...
sad, that...but AS IF our bureaucracy is any better.
I mean, we are sometimes great about getting out to the disaster site for a speech and shit, but little else.
officials announced Wednesday that a Global Hawk remotely piloted surveillance plane would be sent on missions over Japan to help the government assess damage from the earthquake and the tsunami. A Pentagon official said the drone was expected to fly over the stricken nuclear plant.
..and if they just so happen to spot Osama Bin Laden or Tyler Durden, they will be considered targets of opportunity.
*** TEPCO Bulletin ****
We are pleased to have completed construction of 4 nuclear waste dumps at Fukushima.
So sorry to confuse.
Have nice day.
Lets see, where did I put the keys to the 14 fire trucks? This is bad nuclear Kabuki. I wish I had never watched the water drop and the ensuing puppet show news conferences.
This is the worst case of mass hysteria I have seen in my lifetime. You'd think an atom bomb had gone off.
Hmmmm...not bad. Punch line needs some work.
mmm...
You'd think Bear Stearns was failing again.
hmmmm....
You'd think the NFL was on strike or something.
Yeah, tough one...
If the nuclear meltdown takes place in Japan, probably already in the meltdown stages, it will turn Asia and the rest of the world in to an economic ice age. It will be devastating. The creditors will start to chew up capital/reserves and draw billions back to keep their economies from imploding - means, they will stop finances fiscally bankrupt countries like EZ and the US.
Even if the US prints it will lead to the oil death blow...SHITF
What are you taking about, haven't you heard? All they have to do is call ACME cement company to bring over a few loads of concrete and we're back to normal by Monday.
While you are walking through a zoo, what's the scarier event?
a) You come upon a man eating tiger in a locked cage.
b) You come upon a cage marked "Man Eating Tiger" with its door ajar.
A man stuffing a tiger in a jar.
Good one!
Neither...assuming you don't see the tiger in the 2nd cage and can lock yourself inside.
Funny story: my biological father once scaled a chain-link fence around the lion cage at a local zoo (in Alamagordo, NM...why they have a zoo in such a dusty podunk town is beyond me) and tried to pet the "big kitty" by putting his hand through the bars of the inner cage. Luckily, she was "only playing"...so he got away with a mere 370 stitches.
The moral: don't try to fuck with a pussy that's bigger than you.
You are correct. It's the stress that will afflict the global population that will provide the worst impact.
For example, I am supposed to be asleep right now....
Why did they shut down the reactors in the first place? That killed on site power and made the problem worse. It was something they purposefully did almost immediately but it seems now that had they kept it running they may have been better off.
the Chernobyl disaster was started while testing a new safety emergency cooling system,
and TMI started with someone turning off the emergency cooling system during a safety check.
If safety dictated they shut down the reactor that is one helluva trifecta.
They did not kill on site power, the Tsunami did. It also killed backup power and off-site power. Batteries lasted 8 hours as designed - but they do not run multi-thousand HP coolant pumps.The reactors shut down automatically when the accelerometers detected ground vibrations above a certain range, but this did not kill the power. Mother Nature took care of that.
I wouldn't be surprised to see China nuke the plants, poison Japan and the Pacific and call it national self defense
And then cut themselves down to a mere 700M with 'blowback'.
Geologic Journey II: The Western Pacific Rim... the Pacific Rim of Fire, home to half of the world's active volcanoes, and ninety per cent of the world's earthquakes.
http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Shows/The_Nature_of_Things/1242300217/ID=1635271435
Shake'n'Bake.
The Pacific Rim: Americas
Exploration of the Pacific Rim along the west coast of North America. Following the shore, from Alaska to California to Chile discovering how tectonic rhythms threaten the people.
http://www.cbc.ca/video/#/Shows/The_Nature_of_Things/Geologic_Journey_II/1591230210/ID=1651038974
Is it possible they were dropping water to knock down what could be radioactive dust? Think of how the field crews water the infield dirt before a baseball game. Same principle. Now theyre brining in fire trucks. Obviously they know they cant refill the pools with such tactics. But, knock down the dust? No problem. Just a thought.
Evaporating water tends to cool by, well....evaporative means. It also attenuates radiation to some degree, and, when it comes in contact with a 1000 F temp, expands 1700 times its original water volume, therefore displacing oxygen and reducing rapid oxidation of spent fuel rods. But, you need to keep it up until another plan can be put in place. I think they are trying to use what resources they have to stabilize the #3 reactor to buy time until they can get a large volume of water in there. Just my guess.
They were dropping water to knock down public perception nothing was being done.
There was never any chance a few thimble-fulls of water could made a difference to burning empty, or boiling nearly-empty swimming pools.
Looking busy for the sheep.
Did you notice the first drop was fairly close, low above #3, and stationary, and at least some of the water actually hit the building top. After that every drop was from way higher and moving fast too. I presume the crew were going "Holy fuck, listen to that counter roar! I feel ill, can we get out of here now?"
Where did it go?
401: Ceiling of Reactor 4 reduced to frame, power station station operator Tepco says - Kyoto,
Just out in the NY Times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/science/17plume.html?_r=1
"A United Nations forecast of the possible movement of the radioactive plume coming from crippled Japanese reactors shows it churning across the Pacific, and touching the Aleutian Islands on Thursday before hitting Southern California late Friday.
The forecast assumes that radioactivity in Japan is released continuously and forms a rising plume. It ends with the plume heading into Southern California and the American Southwest, including Nevada, Utah and Arizona. The plume would have continued eastward if the United Nations scientists had run the projection forward.
The chairman of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Gregory B. Jaczko, said Monday that the plume posed no danger to the United States. “You just aren’t going to have any radiological material that, by the time it traveled those large distances, could present any risk to the American public,” he said in a White House briefing."
I feel better now that the govt said there is nothing to worry about, but I'm considering joining Nobama in Rio anyway. After all, the govt never lies....right?...(puke).
After Chernobyl, the background level of radiation in upstate NY was tripled within a week. The thing is, the level of radiation where any kind of statistical correspondence starts suggesting a health threat is in the 10,000x range.
But I'm sure Rio is nice this time of year, and it is only money. Have a few caipirinhas for me.
There are a hell of a lot of assumptions that goes into making that assumption. It is possible, but I can see no way it can be as significant radiologically to the US as the regular atmospheric thermonuclear testing back in the fifties and sixties.
The PU is so heavy it will just fall to the bottom of the ocean.
What a Jaczkoff.
So, you know, to keep it short--yeah, you encourage everyone who could possibly leave to fuckin' leave.
There's a potential downside to staying anywhere near this shit. What's the potential downside to an unexpected vacation?
Oh...it'll cost some MONEY?
Sayonara.
I work on large commercial cooling systems and can tell that even if they get power to the plant , it won't work for long.They have all sorts of controls and any debris that falls into the coolant tank will get sucked into the strainers and plug the suction side of the pump. I don't think they have a hope in hell now to get water flow as there is too much damage, I hope I am wrong but years of experience tell me otherwise.
They should be able to use the existing pumping system to pump seawater into it. As far as I know, all coastal reactors have emergency seawater ties that suck from the breakwater lagoon. That assumes the pump's downstream piping is intact, the pumps work, and power can be restored. I realize that is assuming a lot.
Yep.
And so it begins.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/03/16/science/plume-graphic.html...
You can think about this at your kids' soccer practice.
Units are arbitrary.
Quants have other uses also.
Oh, man. You used those words which are unspeakable - ASIB! WWTDD?
US futures are up...all is well
I'm not expecting it to hold though, I think as the events unfold during the day we'll see green go red.
At today’s low SPX 1249 Int. C (83 pts) now equals 1.618 times Int. A (50 pts). This is the second of the Fibonacci targets posted last week: (1282, 1252 and 1202). Let’s add one more. At SPX 1232 Int. C = 2.0 Int. A. This Fibonacci level fits more in line with the potential 9.1% drop to SPX 1222, and the OEW pivot at that level. This market is starting to get sufficiently oversold on several timeframes for a potential downtrend low. Getting through friday’s Options expiration might just do the trick.
In ancient times the spells were less complicated, but accomplished the same things. A patina of control upon a core of chaos. The problem with trying to apply a standard model to an open system that has chaotic inputs and feedbacks is that there are only two patterns, order and chaos and they oscillate and are never stable.
Stick with insider information, forget number systems and remember to take a little money off the table and BTFD!
Translation: TA is BS.
a little OT. but is anyone else wondering why Obuma and family are leaving the continental US this weekend?? Why now with all the fires burning across the globe..why Rio?
maybe something very wicked this way commeth..
just one of those coincidences I guess.
There's a short video out there showing some of the cleanup of Chernobyl and the expendable 'liquidators' they used...appalling really.
No one said anything to anyone about the severity of the radiation exposure and some people died immediately, the fire fighters who went on to the roof of the second reactor never came back.
The individual who filmed the cleanup at Chernobyl died weeks later.
Gold is a living God, and all the World's a stage
https://deltafunctiontoronto.wordpress.com/2011/03/16/gold-is-a-living-god/
Good luck
He gets all of the credit and none of the blame.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRv34Cat3Vw
A lot of he said she said from concerns over the pools for the spent fuel rods-- all the while radiation is leaking into the environment. It doesn't fucking matter if the winds take it elsewhere the point is that radiation is continuing to spew into the environment and the fucking government is being vague along with Tepco and this is unacceptable. Radiation could spread towards Aleutian Islands and California while dumping into our oceans-- where the fuck is the information? Can't trust the government, can't trust the fucking media, who can you trust?
Nobody.
"We may not have long before the water in 3 really starts boiling" - serious sounding spokesman on NHK, right NOW
EDIT: krist, ... then some politician immediately gets on and declares the helicopters were successful. ... riiiiiiiiight! ... the irony, seawater caused it, and sea water fixed it ... all's good~!
EDiOT2: Then an expert dude comes on and talks about how much water was dumped by the choppers, and seems to assume it all went in the storage tank. The reporter points out how small that amount of water is compared to the storage tank's capacity. So the dude dissembles about the overall effect ... blah blah.
This of course ignores the fact that the video we saw had the choppers dropping water mostly in the general direction of the reactor buildings, and mostly missing them in the wind, let alone actually going into the cooling/storage pool, through the holes in the walls, and debris.
How demoralizing
I've been thinking for years that it's lies that will bring us down in the end. The habit of lying grows worse than cancer. Once the majority becomes habituated to lying, and hearing lies without immediate violent retribution, there's no hope of dealing with real situations any more.
Now we're watching it live.
Fiat currency, fancy paper financial instruments based on nothing, obviously rigged elections, false flag attacks - these were all lies that couldn't really bite back.
With nuclear power we tried to lie to Physics. Physics wins.
You're absolutely right. Moral integrity underlies all integrity. As a society, not only have we lost our moral integrity, but we openly endorse immorality as the ideal. Since logic is the basis of morality and science alike, when the scientists have no clue about making right decisions, and are answerable to kleptocrat criminals, the paper mache skyscraper of 'civilization' will topple over at the slightest breeze. Its all we with souls intact can do to be far out of the way when it comes tumbling down.
++1
A power company is probably more autocratic than the KGB. You can be sure those in authority were not chosen for their integrity and intelligence. People who thrive in that atmosphere can almost always be counted on to do the Wrong Thing when things get serious.
Thought this scrolling text from NHK was interesting:
"The US military says one of its unmanned surveillance aircraft has taken footage of the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant. The data has been given to the Japanese government."
Leaked to the Japanese media so someone over there is trying to look out for the Japanese people.
I think the Big O is beginning to lose his legendary chill with his dissembling Japanese opposites.
barliman
Big O is golfing then more vacation. I bow to neither party in this great 2 party nation, but fer crissakes obama makes gw look positively ambitious.
If the japanese public got a copy of the drone footage i'd say it was someone in the military that leaked it, not the big "o" he's workin on that swing.
We are in agreement on the source.
O is trying to figure out how to fit time in for work.
barliman
+1 barliman, is that a Village of Bree reference?....awesome.
Self Defense Force claims their helicopter pilots saw the water in the spent fuel pool in Reactor 4. Or rather, TEPCO says SDF says it saw.
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/03/fukushima-i-nuke-plant-tepco-claims-s...
I'm not sure I buy the argument that the Japanese government withhold info so as not to cause panic. From talking to Japanese in Japan, they are panicky because information coming out of the government and TEPCO is always late, always fragmental and often wrong, or conflicting.
The stupid PM, who wants to grandstand all the time, insists he breaks the news to Japanese people "directly". As the result, TEPCO engineers are probably forced to brief him so that he can speak somewhat intelligently in front of the camera, and that means several hours of delay in releasing critical information.
Case in point: the evacuation zone expansion. They waited 4, 5 hours before the PM "personally" announced. Within those 4 hours, more people could have safely evacuated.
There is an article on Bloomberg praising Chief Cabinet Secretary Edano for his effort for "transparency". What a BS. He is as transparent as Obama closing the press to his meeting on transparency.
Forecast for Plume's Path Is a Function of Wind and Weather
From The New York Times:
http://goo.gl/ze1PQ
The statement that "any plume will be diluted as it travels and, at worst, would have extremely minor health consequences in the United States" should be taken with a grain of salt, given that we now read:
U.S. Calls Radiation ‘Extremely High,’ Sees Japan Nuclear Crisis Worseninghttp://goo.gl/RPNYT
Running out of room for earthquake squares. what will USGS do?
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/140_40.php
Running out of room for earthquake squares. what will USGS do?
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/10/140_40.php
Hehe, I was thinking the same. I know. Just reduce the size of the squares! Kinda like upping the safe amount of radiation rescue workers can receive.
I still can't believe how much of a joke that water drop was. Who are they trying to fool?
Scene from smoke filled room, after sake #5: "Shit, I don't know what we should do. Hey! Let's just stage a water drop. Sure, it won't do shit, but everyone associates water with putting out fire, so let's just do this to look like we're doing something until the Americans show up and get this thing taken care of."
YOKOSUKA NAVAL BASE, Japan — Navy bases in the Tokyo area will begin voluntary evacuations of family members as early as Thursday night, Navy officials said Thursday afternoon.
http://www.stripes.com/news/pacific/navy-to-begin-voluntary-evacuation-o...
Fuel - Spent Fuel On Top BWR Reactor System http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v393/youricarma/Fukushima%20-%20Daiichi%20Reactor%20Design/005bOysterCreekReactorFuel-SpentFuelOnTopBWRReactorSystem.jpg
Source PDF - http://econtent.unm.edu/cgi-bin/showfile.exe?CISOROOT=/nuceng&CISOPTR=33&filename=51.pdf
FROM - http://www.anengineerindc.com/2011/03/daiichi-reactor-design.html
PICTURES NEW: http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v393/youricarma/Fukushima%20-%20Daiich...
Boiling Water Reactor (BWR) Systems http://www.nrc.gov/reading-rm/basic-ref/teachers/03.pdf
If they can't contain it in a timely manner, well, the environmental consequences may be bad, but it's going to be worse economically. Japan is no small economy, and if they tank, the rest of the house of cards will follow.
Depending on how the next few days play out, this may be the black swan we've been looking for.
Tyler,
Maybe, we use Rats for clean up operations?
They are worthless piece of garbage, anyway.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42105046
@ ¥55,600,000,000,00 new dough.
Remember, half is mine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqcbgSpHMFs
Just saw a very recent video on NHK showing the reactors. Seems that both No.2 and No.3 are stil venting steam.
saw the same video and I saw steam from 2, 3, and 4... not good.
check the wood on the 30yr
http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=ZB&p=m5
and this is, well just wow. BOJ been busy...
http://finviz.com/futures_charts.ashx?t=NKD&p=m5
As to the 2nd graph:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMfkVGCU_BA
Ben needs to sponsor a research project at pricetone:
" on the correlation between Currency strength and MilliCuries in the atmosphere". Lots of recent data points - should be s a slam dunk for a PhD thesis.
Watching NHK... the glorious police water cannon truck, latest great hope, gave up. Couldn't get close enough to reach reactor #3 SFP target with water jet, due to high radiation. Police now seeking shelter. I recall another announcement earlier, saying they were putting on special protective clothing. Quick shot of the truck; looked like a pretty heavy duty anti-riot affair, thick windows and possibly gas-tight.
So, not much radiation around the reactors at all then.
Hmm... this Captcha requires a calculator. Are the bots getting smarter? Just in time I reckon.
More video of the site from the air on NHK. Strong plumes from 2 & 3, smaller from 4. All three definitely steam, from the way it was dissipating.
Curiously, seems there's been quite a lot of change in the degree of destruction of #4 since yesterday. Lot more upper panels missing, on the West side. I saw a brief announcement earlier today (Thurs 17th in Oz) to the effect of "now the #4 roof is reduced to frame". No mention of another explosion in #4 today, but it sure looks to me like there was. No one seems to mention it though.