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Guest Post: Our Participation Fuels Financial Tyranny

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Submitted by Charles Hugh Smith from Of Two Minds

Our Participation Fuels Financial Tyranny   

Our debt and transactional consumerism fuels the tyranny which oppresses us.

The basic dynamic is profound: the political and financial tyranny of Wall Street and the "too big to fail" banks is fueled by our own participation. "Reformers" both within the Central State and outside its halls of delirium-inducing power, keep hoping that some tweaking of policy or regulations will relax the grip of Wall Street and the big banks on the nation's throat.

They are willfully blind to the obvious: that with enough money, any rule can be bent or evaded. Just look at the thousands of pages of tax codes which are supposed to impose "fair and equal" taxation on the citizenry. Yet the Power Elites pay less than half (around 18%) of what self-employed entrepreneurs pay (a basic rate of over 40%--15% self-employment tax and 25% Federal tax). For example, Hedge funders pay a mere 15% on their $100 million earnings because they bought a law in Congress which declares their earnings, regardless of source, as "long-term capital gains."

Loopholes and exclusions abound, if you have the right legislators in your pocket (and they come so cheap--a few million each and their soul is yours) and a Panzer Division of sharp tax attorneys.

We have seen how effective all the "refoms" have been: nothing has really changed except regulators now have larger staffs and more mind-numbing reams of complex rules have been issued.

Correspondent Gabriel M. Mueller examines an alternative strategy to resist financial tyranny, which is to burden the Status Quo with as many social expenses as possible and as much debt as lenders will grant, and then default on that debt:

I read this post The Necessity of Resisting Financial Tyranny on Zero Hedge.

When I first started getting into it, you had my attention: you pushed not just for rallies but for action. But it is your action that I have a problem with: Your instructions for financial tyranny are for people to STOP participating in the system. But nothing could be more difficult if not impossible. (I'm still with you, though, so hear my suggestion.) Why not instruct people to take advantage of the system? Stop working and go on welfare; take out student loans; rack up your credit card debt; default on your mortgage; evade your taxes; etc., etc. I believe the financial system would fall down much quicker if people were to undermine it by pushing on its house-of-cards foundation rather than tip-toeing around it.

I concede that most of what I am recommending (and envisioning) is illegal but I doubt it's immoral; and therefore it does not burden my conscience. My thinking is this: Why play by the rules when you know the game is rigged? To do so is to condone your enslavement. I could be wrong, though. I will have to give this more thought.

Frequent contributor Harun I. offered another point of view on the same post:

Once again the radical becomes the plausible, then becomes the necessary.

People that I would talk with expressed anger and helplessness over the fact no one in D.C. is listening. I would tell them they need not feel either, that they simply need to walk away, to stop participating. That idea immediately met resistance. "What about all those people in the banks that would lose their jobs?" "What will happen to the banking system and therefore the economy?"

The answers were simple. As money flowed to local banks they would need to expand their staff to accommodate an increase in business. Those lower level workers who had nothing to do with the corruption of their management will have the skills that local banks need as they expand. There would be some pain in the transition but it would pass.

I made it very clear that returning to the status quo should not be the intent. We cannot go back to spending that is not supported by productivity. It is time that we completely purge ourselves of this idea that has become a cultural defect.

What you wrote in yesterday's post, the relationship you severed with your broker, are the most patriotic actions of a civilized person in a civilized society.

No one need die and not a shot needs to be fired in this silent but powerful wave of revolution.

As a personal preference I do not think of it as resistance. I just choose not to participate. It is a choice we all can make.

If this was the "grand scheme", then it was a poor one. History is rife with what happens when the people come to their wit's end.

"And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?" -- Thomas Jefferson (www.monticello.org)

It seems likely that the ongoing economics malaise will cause a significant number of people to default regardless of their initial intentions, so if solvent people decide to opt out of debt and transactional churn that benefits Wall Street and the TBTF banks, then that is withdrawing support of financial tyranny from both ends, so to speak.

As for loading up on debt with the intent of defaulting as a political action against financial tyranny: it may well hasten the downfall of our financial overlords, but it may also expose the defaulter to various forms of harassment and the possibility that the impaired banking sector would transfer collection to a Police State or private proxy. Harassment of debtors is already at tyranny levels.

There is also the moral issue: financial fraud may be "justified" to some as a form of tit for tat--the Status Quo is based on intentional financial fraud--but it is not the same as non-participation, as the gains reaped from the fraud (the new car, the vacation cruise, the new TV, etc. purchased with consumer debt, and the "free" housing provided by the defaulted mortgage) are highly individual: we the oppressed might eventually gain something from this action but the individual gains quite a lot financially.

That makes intentional default quite different ethically from non-participation, i.e. not taking on any debt and limiting the transactional consumerist churn which fuels the tyranny.

Matt H. asked a key question: what about legitimate loans?

Here's a question: While it's best to be completely out of debt (and I attained that status back in Feb after paying off the last of my CC and closing all TBTF accounts), there's still a need for legitimate loans with realistic LTVs and down payments... Or, at the very least, perhaps re-fi with the Credit Union? It would keep any profits within the 'co-op' and benefit the membership....

At this time, I'm still keeping my powder dry, but my paid-off car is starting to demand expensive work and I would _really_like a car with a warranty....

The key issue here is if the credit union or locally owned bank keeps the loans on its books rather than sells them to Wall Street to package. In the ideal situation, a loan from a local lender that holds the debt until maturation is keeping the money in the local economy and thus would be a positive.

I spoke with a local banker in Iowa in 2006 who told me his bank still kept all the mortgages it originated until they were paid off. This is the classic model of banking, and the interest paid, as Harun notes, pays the salaries of bank employees. Local banks and credit unions funded by legitimate loans to local businesses and residents do not skim the billions of dollars in profits needed to distort and sabotage democracy.

The key takeaway is that financial tyranny is fueled by our participation. Remove our participation and the tyranny crumbles for lack of those billions in skimmed profits.

 

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Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:43 | 1365603 CH1
CH1's picture

The only real solution: Step away from the corrupt (and corrupting) game.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:31 | 1365708 michael.suede
michael.suede's picture

Stop participating in the dollar system by transacting in Bitcoins.

http://www.libertariannews.org/2011/06/06/libertarian-goldbugs-hating-on...

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:33 | 1365714 Matto
Matto's picture

Damn just posted about that below. 

 

 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:35 | 1365726 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Bullshit, bitCONs can be manipulated just as easy as any fiat.  Invest your time in assets and endeavors that can not be manipulated by any Ph.D. fucknut with a computer.  Good arable land, clean water, food and sources of energy.  There are numerous options for all these options, now get the fuck off the couch and go meet your neighbors.  You will require their help for your survival.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:44 | 1365736 michael.suede
michael.suede's picture

I take it you are mad because people are transacting in a currency that can't be manipulated by a central bank.

Your swearing and lies will not make it go away.

Cry more.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:54 | 1365772 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

No, just not stupid.  Anything that exists on a computer can be corrupted I have known too many programmers (I have one damn good one working for me).  After building a company from nothing, I can tell you one thing.  You better be damn sure that there is trust in everything you do.  Every deal you make, every product you sell.  At the foundation of why the system is failing is the loss of transparency and accountability.  Anything that can be easily manipulated, is not a good store of value.  I would love to buy and sell everyday, but that is not how big investments get made.  Sold a lot of paper gold in November at a huge profit to expand some operations (I am in agriculture and business is booming thanks to the bernanke).  What is happening now has been played out hundreds of times throughout history.  Turn off the X-box and computer, move out of your mother's basement and actually go create something of real value for a change.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:12 | 1365818 michael.suede
michael.suede's picture

I am a software developer.

You are lying about the possible manipulation of Bitcoin.

The NSA considers SHA2 secure and the Bitcoin software is open source so everyone can see the security of the system for themselves.

Holding Bitcoins is no more or less risky in terms of network security than putting your money into an electronic bank account.

 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:18 | 1365846 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Sell your bullshit to someone else please.  Any and all software, can be manipulated.  Best of all it can be outright shutdown by being unplugged.  The only credit you get is recognizing how important it is to be at the top of any ponzi.  Good luck with your bitCONing.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:24 | 1365863 michael.suede
michael.suede's picture

The only one peddeling bullshit here is you.

If you are so concerned about network security I assume you only hold cash or gold.

 

Of course I'm sure you don't, which simply points out the ridiculousness of your absurd claims.

 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:37 | 1365901 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"Of course I'm sure you don't, which simply points out the ridiculousness of your absurd claims."

No shit sherlock.  You are indeed a moron.  I still conduct business in many forms of money.   The number one rule in investing is to be diverse, but having lived through the 70's, investing in paper and physical PMs was a no brainer.  Sounds to me like you are the bitter idiot.  How much real value do your endeavors bring to the economy?  

Tell you what, tell me who to contact and I will make a significant investment in bitCON.  The only catch is they have to put the servers right next to mine at one of my properties.  At least then, I know I will still have the real value of the server.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:50 | 1365929 michael.suede
michael.suede's picture

There is no owner of bitcoin, there is no central server, there is no central point of authority over the monetary system.

If you want a Bitcoin server next to your own, all you have to do is install the client on your server farm.  It is free open source software.

If you want to invest in Bitcoins, create an account on Mt. Gox and buy some. 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:04 | 1365983 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

You're arguing with an old timer/troll who's stuck in the horse and buggy ages. No use.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:12 | 1366001 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I guess, that all depends on net worth and who is taking who's form of money.  bitcoins may come to pass, but unfortunately, my suppliers don't take them.  Good luck buying food with bitcoins when the shit hits the fan.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:49 | 1366103 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Bit coins are not to be held.  They are to be spent or converted immediately.  That ends the problem of fraud harming your "savings" in bit coins which really were not a "saving" mechanism anyway.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 19:37 | 1366227 Fedophile
Fedophile's picture

Open Source software is much less at risk of being hijacked.

How else could Debian and Ubuntu (to name only a few) thrive? How else could Apache command a 63% market share of all HTTP servers?

It's a strong system because you can download and verify the entire program yourself before you compile and run it. You don't have to rely on misplaced trust (read dollars).

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:23 | 1365853 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"Holding Bitcoins is no more or less risky in terms of network security than putting your money into an electronic bank account."

Precisely why physical assets and having a valuable survival skill set will be so important until accountability returns to the system (most likely after WWIII).

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:27 | 1365860 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Besides which, the encryptation (while robust by today's standards) could easily be broken in the future when quantum computers come on line, not to mention rapid inflation by the same (they are generated by using processor cycles).

It's also hard to spend ShitCoins when the power goes out.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:27 | 1365873 michael.suede
michael.suede's picture

This is only somewhat true in the fact that full quantum computing is still theoretical.  But let us suppose that in the distant future computing power is sufficient to break SHA2 (which I find unlikely).

What would happen is people would exchange their Bitcoins that use SHA2 encryption for a version that utilizes SHA3 encryption.  The markets would manage this cross over.

SHA3 doesn't even exist yet, so trying to project the security of the system out in the future on theoretical grounds is a pointless exercise.

Further, consider the implications for our current banking system.  It is all electronic and would face the same security threats.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:37 | 1365885 CH1
CH1's picture

Ignore them, Michael. They want it NOT to be possible.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:42 | 1365909 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

No.  As a smart investor I would love another safe store for my value.  The burden is on Michael to demonstrate to me that it is possible.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:55 | 1365958 michael.suede
michael.suede's picture

I wouldn't consider Bitcoins a safe investment, they are still what I would consider a speculative investment.

The market is still new and young, but as more people invest it will grow to become a world changing power.

If you don't want to take a large risk, then don't put a lot of money in.  It is as simple as that.  But don't sit here and say that Bitcoins are manipulatible when they most certainly are not.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:10 | 1365993 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"But don't sit here and say that Bitcoins are manipulatible when they most certainly are not."

But they are.  You want more people to invest.  Get off you high horse, knock the chip of you shoulder, and explain in layman's terms why a simple power outage, internet outage, fire in the server room, flood in the server room or genius hacker can't crack the code or make bitcoins impossible to spend or disappear.  If you want to convince me that bitcoins are trustworthy then behave professionally (ergo don't get baited by a troll) and be upfront about all the weaknesses.  People's trust and understanding of real value has been lost and fraud is the status quo.    People are going into survival mode (because they have too, not necessarily because they want to), if they can't exchange bitcoins immediately and at any time (esp[ecially during a crisis) then they won't buy into it.  Again you are failing to recognize an opportunity and give it the necessary professionalism and effort and I am out of time.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 21:51 | 1366587 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

I got into this debate on another site, and I still have yet to be convinced- but at least you seem to be more lucid.

I think the problem that this debate is running up against is one of optimism.  Optimism not only about the prospects of this technology, but also about the robustness of our infrastructure.

I have two objections to this technology as I understand it- the first is the inherant inequality of distribution.  You pointed it out yourself when you said a person could just plug it into their server farm.  Sorry man, no server farm here.  I don't even have a playstation.  Just an ASUS netbook and a zippy internet connection.  To "mine" bitcoins, I would have to give up all other processes (yes, I tried) and I'm unwilling to do that.  But, there are IT pros and teenage gamers who have massive cycle time to spare.  They benefit from the distribution, and I just don't think that distribution based on access to technology is more equitable than distribution based on labor or trade.

The second is that I am not entirely convinced that the internet as a whole will survive intact in a crisis situation.  There are two reasons- the first is physical, where rolling blackouts, bomb strikes, etc. can damage the actual infrastructure and eliminate access to funds when they are needed, and the second is cyber-warfare.  We haven't seen what it can do yet, and it's a big sell to put needed assets online before the effects are known.  I am anticipating that while networked computers are with us to stay, there will be periods of time when a combination of cyber attacks and infrastructure damage will balkanize the internet, reducing the value of the technology.

It's a neat idea, and you *should* keep promoting and developing it, but I don't think it's got enough behind it to really be useful until after a severe reset.  I'm all for competing currencies, and wish you the best of luck, I'm just not in.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:00 | 1365965 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"Further, consider the implications for our current banking system.  It is all electronic and would face the same security threats."

 

Wow, Micheal recognizes a single valid problem that has a very complex reason behind it.  Again this argues for physical assets.  

Yes, future transactions will be done in cyber space, I run a business and have, at last count, roughly 20,000 customers that are depending on our agriculture products.  I can' change physical metals on a daily basis, BUT, that does not mean I can not trade them or hold them as a store of value for myself, my employees and the future investments of the company.

for thousands of years PMs have remained a safe store of value.  Business rule number one; when the economy is humming and PMs are cheap, accumulate them and invest in the paper if you can.  When times get tough, sell the "paper gold" and reinvest in your people and company in order to weather the storm.

If you are simply saying that people (and markets) will always demand accountability, well no shit, at least 2000+ years of history shows that.  If you want bitCON to work, prove to me that it is a safe store of value.

Having been investing for some time now, I can tell you that the burden for success is on your shoulders, not mine.  It looks like you recognize the fraud and lack of accountability in the collapsing system, get rid of the feel good bullshit and show everyone how this system is more stable (especially in a global economy that is about to get very unstable - i.e. undependable energy delivery, google Fukashima).  You won't even concede the fact that bitCON exchange requires a working power grid a, functional internet, and (most important) people with real value to offer in exchange.  The key being REAL VALUE.  I do business in a physical world, not a computer one.  Get one of my suppliers to take bitcoins and then lets talk.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:47 | 1366108 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

YOu don't hold bitcoins.  You use them up quickly to buy drugs and strippers.  This minimizes the problem of network security since as soon as you buy a bit coin you should spend it

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:31 | 1365869 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

FYI - you may not like my language, but it is just that, language. This should not deter you.  If you represent the average bitCON user and you can't overcome someone cursing on a blog, then I am even less convinced that bitCON can be successful.  Suck it up pussy, nothing in life that is worth anything is free.  The best rewards require a lot of hard work.  In fact, I would argue that the "free" shit ends up costing you a lot more in the end.

 

In a more direct response to you comment - You empty promises and language won't make bitCON anymore successful either.  

Why in the hell did you guys chose a name like bitCON, why not something like "Stablebit" or "trustbit".

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:50 | 1365930 SilverFiend
SilverFiend's picture

I bet the NSA or some similar alphabet agency of the government could manipulate it if it became a threat the dollar.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:59 | 1365774 Matto
Matto's picture

No one said you had to go all in LoP. 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:06 | 1365796 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

So your solution is to replace one manipulatable system with another.  No thanks.  People the world over are demanding accountability.  Let me guess, all the bitCON users are "trustworthy".  Bullshit, as history as shown over and over for thousands of years physical assets always hold their value, especially assets required for survival.  If you kids want to replace one ponzi with another, go for it.  Hey, at least you have learned how important it is to be at the top of the ponzi.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:56 | 1365963 Matto
Matto's picture

Do yourself a favour and do some basic reading about the system first. 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:21 | 1366009 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I have and I may or may not be participating (didn't disclose that either).  I am the investor, I am NOT the one that needs to convince anyone of that bitcoinis a safe store of value with significant purchasing power.  That burden rests upon those who want bitcoin to succeed.  As far as I can tell, none of them understand things like real value.  Even those computer dollars I can change into real dollars and still buy stuff with them, even in a crisis.  More so with my physical metals.  How does bitcoin top that?  I am giving you a chance to convince me otherwise, and no one has yet to do so.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:39 | 1366088 Matto
Matto's picture

Bitcoin is instantly exchangeable for real dollars whenever you like. Personally I couldn't give a fuck about whether you do or don't like bitcoin. Its a system that could bring about massive change if the market deems it worthy but I am not selling or profiting from it in anyway and am only looking to raise awareness that a potential new (another) means of circumventing the system is currently in existance. I could see bitcoin working well alongside PMs as the transactional component vs store of value. One of the beauties of bit coins is that the only profit to be made is accepting them early.There are no channels of people who have a right to their production. Even then only 6million of 21 million are currently released and the rest come from miners - so any tech guy can start getting his hands on them thereby stopping any one person from accumulating too many (which would stop them becoming widely accepted anyway). 

 

Once again, personally I couldn't give a fuck if you take them or not. I am knew to the concept myself but so far, the more I look the more I like.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 21:18 | 1366509 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

"One of the beauties of bit coins is that the only profit to be made is accepting them early."

 

This sounds like a store of value that stores no value.  This is a banker's dream.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:10 | 1366008 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

You and your "bitCON" usage are like those retards that cry about "rethuglicans" and "demoncraps". You have not yet once demonstrated even the most rudimentary knowledge of how bitcoin works. Arguing that bitcoins can be manipulated into existence with any sort of ease is akin to some other loud-mouthed asshole arguing gold isn't safe because of alchemy. Dig your head out of your shit stained coveralls and read something you ignorant yokel.

http://www.bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:29 | 1366053 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"Dig your head out of your shit stained coveralls and read something you ignorant yokel."

Glad to see your home schooling has paid off.  

"gold isn't safe because of alchemy"

Hey phucknut, read the saying at the top of the page, nothing lasts forever.  I understand bitcoin, now tell me again how it is better than the computer money I already have in multiple local banks that I can turn into real cash (and always have some) or the physical gold and silver that I have.  Both the FRNs and physical metals I can exchange in a crisis (when there is no internet or power).

I run a business, I spend and take in thousands of dollars and euros a day.  none of my customers have bitcoins, none of my suppliers take bitcoins.  This is the REAL world dumbass, get out of your mom's basement and off the computer and come join us.  Life is messy, shit happens, convince me that I can trust bitcoin (as an investor I would love another stable store of value).  Grow the fuck up dude. You really want bitcoin to work, answer the fucking questions.  tossing insults is easy (and fun for some).


Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:41 | 1366084 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

I have no interest in educating you for free. If you want to pony up a few dozen shekels out of your vast "stores of wealth" doom bunker for what can easily be searched out on your own for free, let me know. Otherwise, just read the link already provided to you.

There are plenty of people "in real business" that accept bitcoin. That you and your backward ass suppliers and customers don't is of no interest to me.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:54 | 1366092 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Sure, conrad.  Name one.  As far as what we do, we feed people, we are in agriculture, I guess it all depends whether or not you need to eat.  Can you eat bitcoins like i-pads?  So maybe bitcoin and TPTB are not so different after all.  Again, kudos for recognizing how important it is to be at the top of any ponzi.

 

I read the literature on bitcoin, now I am hungry, help me out where can I exchange some bitcoins for some food and drink?  I never said I didn't like the idea (the masses are demanding an accountable system), just it's current implementation and representation.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:52 | 1366123 Matto
Matto's picture

Here's a tip - bitcoin runs Peer2Peer like music file sharing, why don't you ask the 'real' music industry how that kiddie internet shit is working out for them. Now just replace "music industry" with "financial control of the globe" but hey fuck whatever, your a big man so what would you care.

 

Fuck i am sick to shit of egotistical fuck stains who let the fact they are someones boss go to there head. Just another shitstain mid sized business owner who thinks he owns everybody cause no one at work tells him to shut the fuck up. 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 21:20 | 1366507 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

I read the literature on bitcoin, now I am hungry, help me out where can I exchange some bitcoins for some food and drink?

For such a fiercely independent entrepeneur, you sure are incapable of doing anything on your own.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Trade#Consumable

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 20:54 | 1366412 malek
malek's picture

and you might want to pony up on alchemy, dreamer.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 22:40 | 1366709 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

The same end of the line.  Yipee.

Here's the thing, bud- you wouldn't be educating anyone for free.  Since you're an early adopter, you stand to benefit the most from encouraging the use of the technology.  The mosre people you can convince, the more the value of the finite bitcoin increases.  If you hold them, and convince others to use them, you will be paid in increased purchasing power.

If you demand payment for your remarkable teaching abilities in any other form of currency, you are shooting yourself in the foot. 

Case in point, I'm a silver advocate.  There is plenty of pre-1964 US coinage around to use as an alternate currency if it comes to that, so I spend a portion of my time educating my particular circle of family, friends, coworkers and neighbors about the issue, so that I do not end up holding a useless sack of shiny bits when the SHTF because nobody knows what they should be valued at.

So, I do work in exchange for these coins, and offer them as payment as often as possible.  Instead of denominating payment in terms of dollars, I set prices in terms of ounces.  Even if I take a small loss because of the whipsawing of the market, I consider the education more important right now.  And no, my day job does not pay me in silver- this is transactional money in side hustles like repair jobs and cabinet making.

Even those who choose not to transact in metal tend to look into it, and have it in the back of their mind.  I explain the market, and the reasoning behind what I am doing.  Then, we have a useful dialogue started.  What I don't do is shove a silver half dollar at someone for payment, and then tell them that they're an ignorant bitch if they don't accept it.

If you want bitcoin to become a real player, you need to do something similar.  Not only that, but it wouldn't hurt to educate based on the open-source model that bitcoin is built on.  A way better response here would be something along the lines of:

Yes, a few of the developers had the same concerns, and we determined that network stability is far less of an issue than it would appear, because the cell network was improved and hardened against attack as part of the response to the September 11th attacks.  We're developing some cellphone apps to take advantage of that.  But, we're still looking for any creative ideas to improve this- what would make you more comfortable with the technology?

It has to work better than Because I said so, you stupid piece of crap- which is, unfortunately, the only argument I've really seen from any advocate of bitcoin so far.  If that is all you can bring to the table, have fun trading your virtual fun bucks for super weapons in your role-playing games, while the adults continue to work towards real solutions that will allow you to keep drinking Jolt and eating pizza rolls in your Mom's basement.

Just saying.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:41 | 1365729 uranian
uranian's picture

laudable idea, but in reality bitcoins lost 60% of their value in 48 hours a couple of days ago.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHw6fldrObo

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:41 | 1365737 michael.suede
michael.suede's picture

Sure, it is a brand new currency.  It will be volitile until it gains broader acceptance.

No reason not to get involved in it though.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:05 | 1365785 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

ShitCON can be gamed, just like any fiat.  The system is failing because there is no accountability or transparency.  BitCON offers none either.  Even gold and silver can be manipulated, but less so with physical assets.   Own physical assets, be capable of adding physical value yourself (i.e. have a tradable skill).  Why own physical assets?  Because they can not be manipulated by some fucktard with a computer.  Go ahead, walk onto a farm or into someone's house and try to destroy the value of some of there physical assets and see what kind of response you get.  Better yet, save yourself some time and go shoot yourself in the head.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:21 | 1365858 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

+ 2x every 2 years

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:42 | 1365914 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture

 

LoP, you're banging your head against the wall here. I agree that tradeable skills do have and will have even more value as things unwind. Arable land is a must, but is useless if you don't know how to farm it. This past weekend, as I was canning this year's tomato crop, I was overwhelmed with gratitude for the life lessons I learned from my grandparents. The ability to farm on both large and small scales, the ability to preserve the fruits of that farming effort and the manual skills (I'm  machinist and can fix anything that's fixable and some things that aren't).

Bitcoin has its defenders including survivalblog.com, however, I don't share this admiration for some of the reasons you mention. Also, Chuckie Schumer has introduced or is in the process of introducing legislation to outlaw bitcoin as counterfitting, the .guv doesn't like competition.

I'll stick with my land, garden and canning skills any day and will live long and prosper will the bitconers starve.

DaddyO

 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:29 | 1366062 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I agree completely, but as an investor looking for additional safe stores for my wealth, I want to give them the opportunity (in the face of adversity - gee that's the real world) to show some spark of genius that I missed.  Don't see it yet.  Don't discount the younger generation, I have kids and want them to be more successful than me.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 21:19 | 1366380 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Ooh, ooh, a BitCoin/resistance thread!  Time to respam my growing manifesto on Project Mayhem... powered by BitCoin:

Get to know your neighbors well, buy local, hoard stuff.  No heroics till after the hyperinflation and the bloody crackdown.  That shitstorm will awaken more of the sheeple and peel off some of the cops and bureaucratic drones, because it will be clear that their pensions are already gone.  Also, wait until a large number of protestors are slaughtered or a large number of people end up in FEMA camps.  Need to get more cops and military on our side, so I suspect that he who fires the first shot will lose the revolution.  Let them fire the first shot. 

Need to get them to waste time or turn on each other where possible.  Leave empty bags around.  If you know someone who works for the Beast, plant some reefer on his property where it will eventually be kinda visible from a road.  This will encourage narcs and civil forfeiture.  Crank-call a rent-a-cop at an elite university and tell him he must have really enjoyed busting up your frat party last week because his dick is so small.  Tell him you know this because his sister is a Craigslist call girl and she compared your huge dinosaur dick to his little pecker.  Tell him he will have to work all year busting parties to match the booze money you took out of Daddy's trust fund for just that one party. 

Go to a donut shop with a friend and talk about this silver bug who was talking about a monster box at the bottom of one of the outhouse pits in the national park but you don't know which outhouse.  Know your local pigmen and dream up devious ways to exploit their paranoia and greed.  Conversely, try not to fall for it when the elites use this tactic on us.  They would very much love for this to turn into a race war or a mutual narc-fest.

Tie the bureaucracy in knots by swamping it, turning it against itself, or forcing it into absurd positions.  If you work for them, even indirectly, quit your job but keep showing up for "work".  Insist on doing things by the book.  Have lots of irrelevant meetings with lots of buzzwords and academic nonsense.  If anyone questions you about this, tell them they lack cooperative spirit/patriotism/respect for diversity/ watever.  If you get snickers and scowls from trustworthy people, take them aside later, tell them what your are doing and keep them as contacts for when the shit really hits the fan.  Go on the dole and max out your CCs and encourage your family to do likewise- but plow the money into PMs and supplies instead of mortgages and consumer crap.

Stay mobile and stay away from cities.  Get a pickup truck with supplies, and keep up with your rural contacts and survival skills.  You and a few buddies could last quite a while on BLM land if you need to. 

Get some silver and BitCoins while you still can.  BitCoins have the kleptocracy protection of PMs, and they are highly divisible and a lot easier to stuff through an ethernet cable.  The number of coins is mathematically capped at 21 million.  Figure in population increase and loss of coins due to shattered hard drives, etc. and this will be a deflationary currency.  Good for saving, certainly much better than bonds.  I wouldn't be shocked to see a $21 trillion Bitcoin market emerge if the kleptocracy gets really bad.  That means an exchange rate of $1m per Bitcoin (currently $9 per BitCoin).  So even though BitCoin is up 3000x since the first recorded PayPal trades in April 2010, it could easily run up by another multiple of 3000. 

https://www.bitcoinmarket.com/market/tools/

There were many blocks of 10,000 that traded back in the good 'ol days.  I have only a small fraction of that because I bought in last month, but there are probably hordes of crypto-anarchist geeks out there who will ultimately be worth billions of clownbux.  The ones closest to the nerve center will be the richest and they will also hate the system the most.

Now, imagine what will happen after the inevitable hyperinflation, food riots and brutal crackdown.  The government will have lost all legitimacy in the eyes of the people, and everyone will be looking around to see who throws the first Molotov.  Enter BitCoin.  It's just a matter of time until someone posts a YouTube video of a flaming cop car while holding a poster of their BitCoin address.  Only shutting down the internet will stop the distributed anarchist horde from donating.  Word will spread.  Crimminals will target the powerful instead of the middle class.  Eventually the going rate might be .01 BTC per flaming cop car, .1 BTC per flaming cop, 1 BTC per flaming federal building, 100 BTC for a Rothschild dosed with scopolamine and mindfucked into spilling all his dark secrets before he is eaten alive by maggots.  Even this would only be a drop in the horde's ocean of buying power.  I think we are going to have a lot of cypherpunks living in Dubai penthouses surrounded by hookers but wanking to the increasingly creative homebrew snuff porn they finance.  Their combined mayhem fund might even exceed the Rothschilds' mayhem fund.  Even without this level of funding, you can still use your BitCoins to buy liquid LSD from Silk Road, and have it shipped anywhere in the US.  Stalk politicians and dose their car door handles.  Go visit banks and federal buildings with a little bottle of breath spray, blessing keyboards or "employees only" doorknobs or whatever Eris tells you to.

Project Mayhem is coming.  This is the will of Eris, who always knows the one action which will turn any situation into a total clusterfuck.  She is one of our most important allies, and with her help, the whole world will be in flames within two years.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 23:18 | 1366786 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Bravo!

Forgot about the good ol' sacred chao...

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 21:46 | 1366573 uniman
uniman's picture

I'd like to suggest that the Bitcoin naysayers take a breath and calm down and maybe take a closer look at the idea. Granted it's a radical and new idea and thus comes with some risk attached, but what else in life doesn't have risk?

Bitcoins exist and they have strengths and weaknesses. If this scheme works as advertised, then it's a tremendous boon for the resistance. Look at Bitcoins as another method of diversification.

After reading the flame war about this, I offer another introduction to Bitcoins at http://grandfubar.com/introducing-bitcoins

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 00:24 | 1366903 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

The way I understood it:

Bitcoins was the same type of scam as most pyramid schemes....rewarding the early and higher echelons...to thereby "Lord" over the later parties entering the scam.

Seems like the same type of scam Central Bankers run (print pretty paper....convince everyone it's worth something)

I doubt Bitcoins will end well

Those people should just buy gold and silver....that would become a bigger help to "reset" the construct.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:54 | 1365734 firefighter302
firefighter302's picture

+1 "Get out of the game".

 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:41 | 1365607 CH1
CH1's picture

Unintentional double. :(

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:43 | 1365609 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Edit, removed the mother of all duplicate

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:42 | 1365612 CH1
CH1's picture

Ughh... a REALLY unintentional triple. I blame Tyler's server!! :)

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:38 | 1365613 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Easier said than done re non-participation.  Partial revolt is for me!  I will take some money out of the bank tomorrow (June 14 everyone).

And go buy an empty 1 gallon paint can (to EMP-proof my SW Radio) as well as rice and beans.  More gold...

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:45 | 1365622 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Check out self sufficentish.com

Plant a single fruit tree.

Work for cash. Always cheat the government out of some taxes when possible.

You can make small steps to disengage

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:16 | 1365690 Matto
Matto's picture

DoChen, I have a newfound belief that the answer is right in front of us already - you had a post about it on the weekend.

 

 

Bitcoin.

 

Global, borderless, untraceable, decentralised, uncorruptable, unprintable, un'fractionable' and outside of any form of control aside from some current horders dumping stock, can link straight to a debit credit card, online payment system or mobile phone app. Global electronic cash.

 

Did I mention completely globally untraceable?

 

Think about that for a moment. 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:43 | 1365802 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

"Did I mention completely globally untraceable?"

 

Yes, as in, you will have no idea where your money went.  I am glad to see that the younger generation has finally figured out how important it is to be at the top of any ponzi.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 21:00 | 1366427 DRT RD
DRT RD's picture

+1 for LoP  

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:35 | 1365895 CH1
CH1's picture

True. The right thing is very seldom the easy thing. We have to decide what really matters to us.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:42 | 1365614 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

They will have to abandon telephones and start beating the forest and bridges for those few free individuals living peacefully without a care about that mansion and all the crap stuffed into it on leverage over years of a wasted life keeping up with joneses.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:39 | 1365615 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

There is no reason for unearned income to be given preferential status over earned income.

It does not help the market nor encourage investment at the margin. The market merely adjusted upward slightly in the pe ratio as a one time change when this was instituted.

To avoid having the downward adjustment in pe averages be noticeable the tax rates of both types of income should converge gradually over ten years.

Finally something where socialists and i agree.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:49 | 1365636 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

There is no reason for unearned income to be given preferential status over earned income.

 

There is all reasons for unearned income to be given preferential status over earned income in this US driven world. Corrected.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:04 | 1365670 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

None of those reasons are good, rational, or moral.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:41 | 1365616 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Why not instruct people to take advantage of the system? Stop working and go on welfare; take out student loans; rack up your credit card debt; default on your mortgage; evade your taxes; etc., etc.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven_str...

It's all good to want to help accelerate the end of the current system. The problem is people need to be damn sure they know what they want next, and many don't. Just hoping for change like an asshole will get us nowhere. There has to be a clear understanding of what caused the problem, and what the remedies are( http://archives.gov/exhibits/charters/ ).

http://ampedstatus.org/network/members/admin/activity/35028

 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:48 | 1365631 CH1
CH1's picture

We are producers - it is beneath us to manipulate and abuse - we can make what we need.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:10 | 1365673 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Some producers and would-be producers find it much simpler to go galt whole or in part.....even if they have never heard the term.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:22 | 1365693 Seer
Seer's picture

Yes, I'm afraid that many will just sit back and expect some magic to happen (little different than the shitheads that have run amok now).

If there is ONLY one thing that people should get out of all of this it's that we cannot have infinite growth on a finite planet.  Second would be that BIG = FAIL: loss of diversity means that we get strung along like lemmings, best "solutions" never materialize because everyone's  thinking the same way.

I'm stepping forward by moving toward farming: Food, Shelter and Water, these are the things that are the fundamentals.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 22:49 | 1366736 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

Still not so sure about the bitcoins, but +10,000 for this.

Had the same conversation with my old man about a year and a half ago on this same topic.  He's an old militia man, but never had any vision for what comes after the firefight.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:41 | 1365619 sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

It is illegal and immoral. It is simply theft. Two wrongs don't make a right.

But nothing wrong with opting out!

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:46 | 1365627 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Watch your back. You are sounding unamerican.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:42 | 1365623 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Ah ah, made me laugh. US citizens, always willing to pass the bad consequences onto others, never foot the bill.

I concede that most of what I am recommending (and envisioning) is illegal but I doubt it's immoral; and therefore it does not burden my conscience.

 

No kidding... Burdening a US citizen's conscience.  Would be a premiere.

Did not burden US conscience to proclaim freedom for all and maintain slavery. Did not burden US conscience to claim property rights and steal the Indians'land.

The US citizens nature is eternal.

 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:06 | 1365664 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

We are fast learners of the greek way.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:19 | 1365692 Matto
Matto's picture

You idiot. I don't even need to know where you are from to know you're a hypocrite. 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:44 | 1365633 Beau Tox
Beau Tox's picture

Come out of her, Babylon!

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:38 | 1365903 CH1
CH1's picture

FYI: It is "come out of her my people."

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:54 | 1365952 Beau Tox
Beau Tox's picture

Thanks, CH

I was trying to shorten the verse so that ZH will grok Bible prophecy.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:16 | 1366026 CH1
CH1's picture

Ah, okay. :)

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:45 | 1365634 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Well, lookee here. The FBI has decided that the US Constitution needs some more "tweaking". I wonder if supposedly anonymous internet message board posts are included in their new guidelines?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43376181/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:52 | 1365638 CH1
CH1's picture

We're all criminals now.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:54 | 1366127 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Is that you, Nixon?  I thought you were dead.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:13 | 1365811 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

"Valerie Caproni, the FBI general counsel, said the risks and the benefits of each change had been carefully weighed." .....Now, doesn't that make you all feel much better....? The story would have worked better without the photo...

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:52 | 1365939 Rainman
Rainman's picture

...reads like a quote from the SS indoctrination field manual. Goebbels would be proud of this Frauleine.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 20:11 | 1366322 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

any relation to Janet Reno?

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:09 | 1365989 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

this article's a good one too:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43208176/ns/us_news-the_new_york_times/t/ana...

The agents watched from their cars for hours at a time — Mr. Crow recalls one regular as “a fat guy in an S.U.V. with the engine running and the air-conditioning on” —

your grandkids' tax dollars at work!

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:47 | 1365637 hpx
hpx's picture

With risk of being ridiculed by the Rand-haters (bla, bla Greenspan, bla bla personal life, bla, bla leftist commie crap) :

Who is John Galt ? (and what might he teach us about how to get out from oppression?) 

Or, in a language everyone can understand : Exodus, bitchez!

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:49 | 1365639 CH1
CH1's picture

No ridicule from me!

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:50 | 1365641 Havana White
Havana White's picture

Not a shred of doubt in my mind: Fed is buying stock today, hand over fist now with 15 minutes left, trying to keep it green.  Tack onto "our" debt, soon enough, a shelled trading account.  

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:24 | 1365698 Havana White
Havana White's picture

This fuck Gene Peroni of Claymore funds is on:  "If analysts would come in and lower their estimates we'd have companies beating the number to set up a nice summer rally."

Come on, analysts.  It takes a village!  (sarc)  Sleaze, sleaze, and more sleaze.  CNBS really rolled out the cheerleaders today, one after another, all day long.  Heh-heh.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:49 | 1365761 nantucket
nantucket's picture

how effin ridiculous is that statement by Gene?  He thinks stocks will rise after they "beat numbers"....but they won't fall the lowered estimates.  What a complete clown.  If that is how some people think about markets that is damn scary.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 15:55 | 1365648 Beau Tox
Beau Tox's picture

Come out of her, Babylon!

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:00 | 1365658 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Remember the distinction between big bad banks who run the country versus local banks and credit unions.

Plan to default on the former.

If you have six months to live then refinance at inflated appraisal value, run up your credit cards, and you have hidden or planned for most of your assets to avoid probate havent you.

I giggle every once in a while at a crazy troll's well planned, and patient strategem in the final minutes of the game.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:18 | 1365688 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

It's not so hard.  Get all your money out of the clutches of the criminal syndicates in New York City and Washington DC.  Move your IRA to a self directed IRA and buy local rental units.  Stop contributing to 401Ks.  Cash out on your pension plan and convert it to PMs.  Move your savings to a local Credit Union. 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:21 | 1365691 thebuddhastalin
thebuddhastalin's picture

Hi guys, first post!

I'm a CFA who hates precious metals (WAYY overrated), is bullshing on APPL & GOOG and absolutely LOVES watching movies on Netflix. I hope we can get along!

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:22 | 1365699 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Who are you the reincarnation of?  You're avatar is too custom to be a lone rider.  You are going to get junked pretty heavily with those opening salvos, bub!

Tell us why, not what.  We'll listen before we make fun of you...

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:27 | 1365702 spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

Welcome! You will do fine here.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:31 | 1365709 serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Think so?

I'm thinking it will get its ass kicked repeatedly.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:44 | 1365912 CH1
CH1's picture

Time-wasting troll.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:24 | 1365697 Metropolis_Minx
Metropolis_Minx's picture

1) Mortgage payments -- check (haven't made one in almost a year--and still living in home)

2) I pay cash for everything...and Baby is it liberating! (especially my pm, no sales tax or "capital gains" that way)-- check

3) Tomorrow I close my bank account with a mid-tier bank and go Local Local Local with a Credit Union. Can't "check" that one yet, of course, but I'll be doing a victory dance tomorrow on "Rebellion Day".

I can tell you first hand that NOTHING feels better than doing SOMETHING. I've been going the non-participation route and feeling great about it. Losing the house will be the hardest; I've lived here for 7 years and actually love the place, but HATE Citi Corp. ahh well....

M_M

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:12 | 1365822 Goatboy
Goatboy's picture

You hate Citi Corp. or being cyber-peasent in this cyber-feudalism?

Breeding, conformist, docile majority will instruct you: "That's life. Just stick your head in sand and rise high your ASI (anal sphincter interface)".

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:49 | 1365921 CH1
CH1's picture

You think "breeding" is slavery? It is, in fact, the continuance of human life.

Let go the ideology and get a grip on reality.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 21:25 | 1366519 Goatboy
Goatboy's picture

Very kind of you to present an illustration of what I was talking about.

Underestimating ideology and taking "reality" too seriously got us where we are.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 01:55 | 1366993 CH1
CH1's picture

No sale.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:09 | 1366006 Metropolis_Minx
Metropolis_Minx's picture

Hey, I'm just a girl who makes a living in the Arts. "Conformist" and "Docile" won't sell a painting, believe me.

In fact, I don't believe I have anything in common with most of the people here at ZH, except a deep abiding disgust for this debt-based, slavery economy. I've learned most of what I know through osmosis (here at ZH) and a whole lotta reading of really boring stuff. After these 3 years of education...I'd take a palette knife to anyone who even looked at my ASI.

M_M

 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:55 | 1366121 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

You go girl.  The troll likes your style.

so many people live their lives in chains and never know they have the key.

It is liberating to do what you have done.  It must feel good, but I know it ain't easy.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 21:35 | 1366554 Goatboy
Goatboy's picture

I dont think that bunch on ZH is so homogenious as it might seem. Be well.

 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:27 | 1365703 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Bitcoin Bitchez !!

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:26 | 1365706 Goatboy
Goatboy's picture

"...keep hoping that some tweaking of policy or regulations will relax the grip of Wall Street and the big banks on the nation's throat."

Nation's throat? These criminals are holding a good part of the world as hostages. Situation in US is brilliant compared to many other places influenced by their "reforms".

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:40 | 1365728 Metropolis_Minx
Metropolis_Minx's picture

More like the Nazi banks have the nation (and world) by the nether-regions, that's south of the navel for those not aquainted with anatomy.

M_M

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:30 | 1365707 Whatta
Whatta's picture

We, Americans, are pussified and will take whatever they tell us to take. We can't even produce a decent soccer hooligan, much less a revolt, silent or other, against "them".

Yeah, tomorrow I pay my quarterly estimated taxes. I will "protest" by paying it out of my last BAC account (started out as Countrywide cd's) that I am gradually working down to zero. Shows them bastards, huh?

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:08 | 1365800 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Whats wrong with you people ,taxes are voluntary, read this book which is available (free) on the Internet " the errant sovereigns handbook " by Augustus Blackstone . Everything he says in there is spot on I know I pay no taxes including property taxes, and I own my house . So stop being 14 amendment slaves and become a real American 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:37 | 1365724 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

You will soon have to spend everything you make at the company store. 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:44 | 1365735 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

There may be a company store, but there is plenty of black market bartering going on in my neck of the woods, all tax free.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:43 | 1365742 falak pema
falak pema's picture

you be in shangrila with your forty acre estate...so no one can touch you with a barge pole.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:54 | 1365764 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

And that's as inevitable as the good ole company store. Only way to "unplug" form the inevitability of servitude

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:14 | 1365812 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

So what is your point?  Shit happens?  Get the fuck over it and go create some real value for yourself and your community.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:22 | 1365848 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

 - don't you have a Paraquat delivery to make?

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:19 | 1365852 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

My point is that a black market will crop up inevitably whenever "the company" gets too tight a grip on the supply side. So I was actually sending you a wink wink and a nudge nudge. 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:35 | 1366068 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Got it, thanks.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:46 | 1365741 falak pema
falak pema's picture

16 tons n what do you get...

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:48 | 1365744 uranian
uranian's picture

distancing one's self from the monetary system in every way possible is the best solution i can see. practically for me that means keeping all of my wealth in silver and gold, converting the bare minimum to fiat as/when i need to. indeed distancing one's self from every other part of the current political system, whether that's throwing away your TV, not voting or anything else, strikes me as the way forward. violent revolution never works, because violence is the heart of the current system. pretty much all of what we're looking at is really no more than an idea, and the sooner people turn their backs on an idea that serves a very few at the cost of very many, the sooner that idea becomes irrelevant. actually the sooner we generally realise what a truly laughable idea particularly the monetary system is (exponential growth in a finite environment), the better.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 01:57 | 1366994 CH1
CH1's picture

Well said, Uranian.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:49 | 1365746 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I have cancelled my last and only credit card.  I refuse to be a willing participant to my own enslavement.  I collect PM's.  I try and 'turn' my friends and associates.  I read history.  I point things out and I speak out even if I know people will criticize me for going against the grain.  I will do whatever it takes, however long it takes until this war is won.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:50 | 1365750 infotechsailor
infotechsailor's picture

political mass public mobilization isn't nearly as common as economic self interest. people will remain connected to a system as long as it benefits a majority. They will stay as long as it is more convenient.  Even if that system is wrong or screws everyone in the end, the motivation to change is slow coming.  It will take time and for conditions to get much worse for people to realize what is better. Many people will never realize why a system is better one way or another, they will simply choose to live in a location or in a career field that is more successful wherever they happen to be, and that is how the world works.  Deep political thought is just something that doesn't occur in the masses until they reach a crisis point, which is why Greece, Iceland, Portugal, and the masses in the other PIIGS need direction as their countries have crossed the Rubicon.  

The best you as an intelligent and informed person can do is prepare yourself and your family for the things you see coming.  Learn Chinese, Move yourself or your family to a foreign country, or drop out of college, or at least change majors to something that will be more reasonable in the future. At least diversify your assets .  These are the things men have done for centuries, and the men with the most foresight can not only be prepared, but come out better on the other side.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:13 | 1365825 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

" These are the things men have done for centuries, and the men with the most foresight can not only be prepared, but come out better on the other side."

Yes, and even then nature makes no promises regarding anyone's survival.  This may be part of the whole problem with the health care debate.  People want a guaranty on their survival, even when they make stupid decisions.  Fuck them.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 09:07 | 1367358 infotechsailor
infotechsailor's picture

i say if people are proponents of government healthcare, lets go all out. Health fitness tests, higher rates for fat people. Military style physical fitness assessments. Expiration dates on your health ID cards, cancelling your health card if you fail, not only cancelling (or fining you) your govt health insurance, but banning you from certain restaurants. 

 

Give people an idea of the draconian measures that should come when the public is forced to take care of your dumbass. But at the same time, I agree with the likes of Peter Schiff that medical insurance should not be an employer write off.  This subsidy distorts the entire medical industry, changing the normally frugal customer into a careless teenage girl running around town with daddy's AMEX. 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:52 | 1365760 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I would suggest that everyone start living life the way they would want to if there were no government or large banks. 

Are you a capitalist? Start putting your savings to work in local projects that will earn you a profit. Try to set it up to diminish your tax foorprint. 

Are you an anarchist? Start living without regard for government as much as possible. Keeping in mind that a complete change might land you in jail, but then, it is free food and housing (you might want to opt out of the sex).

Remember, if you accept the largess of governments and banks, you are helping maintain these institutions AND you are providing the legitimacy for their police state. You do not need a loan to build a house or farm. You do not need FRN's to complete a sale. 

Of course, they can be very convenient. Just as the argument of one immorality cancels another. If you believe in a free market and private property, then taking out loans to default is just criminal theft. If you want a revolution, then you must be willing to sacrifice the pleasantries of life. There is a cost and it must be borne.

Stop celebrating our militant murder and mayhem corps. Stop voting. Stop helping police thugs. Stop every interaction with government you can afford. Stop investing in Wall Street. When someone identifies themselves as a government, banking or military official- show your derision. Advocate their destruction. Never make them feel welcome or wanted.

If the State is your enemy, then it must be treated as such. Teach your children what the schools fail to. Teach your children to revolt. 

Are you in or are you out gunny? 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:50 | 1365763 infinity8
infinity8's picture

I'm so old school that I never got sucked into all the debt madness in the first place:

Worked and saved $ right after high school and then paid for my college as I went in the 80's.

Had one car loan ever back in the day but for only 2 yrs on a used car at a great price, since then all vehicles paid for outright.

Had credit cards in my 20's but never went nuts, kept one for convenience for a while and ditched that at least a decade ago.

Have one bank account w/a good regional that I never keep more than $100 in, everything paid cash/money orders.

Work for cash as much as poss and if I have to take a check it get's presented at the bank it's written on even if I have to pay a small fee as non-customer (the ONLY fee I will pay).

Never bought a home. When my income had increased to where I felt comfortable that I could (really) afford a house I started looking but pricing was already going nuts as far as I was concerned and this was late 90's/early 2000's.

All the while people think I'm crazy. The sad thing is that too many people can't even imagine living outside the $ system. They don't have what it takes to be an entrepeneur and need a job to go to that tells them what to do. More and more auto deposit for payroll is mandatory and then, well hell, the debit card's convenient. Whatever, I've gone on too long and most people still think I'm the crazy one.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:57 | 1365771 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Soon living within the system will mean pledging eternal servitude. Most people confuse 'security' with being a slave, because when you are a slave you can be very certain of your futures

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:04 | 1365781 infinity8
infinity8's picture

and I shall cherish my insecurities - cheers!

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:15 | 1365833 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Oh, that needs to be a bumper sticker - "Stop confusing slavery with security"

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:41 | 1365902 Occams Aftershave
Occams Aftershave's picture

In olden times people willingly signed up for indentured servitude and other forms of mild slavery.   If one had nothing, it was security:  living quarters and food.

Strip the labels off, and not a lot has changed, except today's slaves have better entertainment.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 16:58 | 1365777 uranian
uranian's picture

Over half of all Americans receive significant income from government programs - Gary Shilling

The average unemployed person in America has been looking for work for more than nine months. That is the longest average unemployment spell since the Labor Department started keeping track in 1948 - NYtimes

Mcdonalds and MTV - Juvenal

the only way i can really see change coming is when enough people's mcdonalds and MTV go out, such is the hypnosis induced by the TV, the fluoride, the perceived comfort of most westerners' lives. that comfort is getting colder and colder lately...who knows when critical mass will be reached, but seeing stuff recently like the greeks occupying their ministry of finance suggests to me that's it's not very far off.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:02 | 1365779 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

The schoolyard bully loses all power when people stop participating.

Regimes collapse when people realize there is no longer anything in it for them to participate.

Even the most brutal tyrant needs the participation of his victims. Without fear, it's much too inefficient to hold everyone at gunpoint all the time.

 

 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:03 | 1365969 CH1
CH1's picture

Right. That's why they always need some type of priesthood/intelligentsia to keep the masses compliant.

 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:12 | 1365798 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

Maybe everyone should run for office. A campaign of 300MM parties. A plurocracy. Rule by the many. Maybe that's what anarchy is about. Or, if not everyone then everyone who is worthy. I think that out of 300MM people, there are many who are worthy. Then we would have rule by those who are worthy, a meritocracy. There are infinite ways of playing on this, but the point is that perhaps the most radical idea is to massively opt in to the democratic process. Not just by voting because in the end you are probably voting for a candidate picked by the club. Those club manipulations result in our current moronocracy or rule by the dull witted. Even if everyone ran, you would still have fewer idiots in office than at present.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:24 | 1365865 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

The only way you could have a congress that was not corrupt is by having representatives that do not run for office or are elected , but they win a seat by state, through a lotto system , so people that want to participate buy a ticket in there state , if they win they do 1 year and are not allowed to enter again . This way absolute power corrupts absolutely stays mostly out of the system

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:53 | 1365941 Dr. Porkchop
Dr. Porkchop's picture

You could always try 10 years of exile by ostracism. Ship the unpopular buggers out.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:46 | 1366106 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

I like where you are heading with this, but you would still need to end lobbying.  have you ever seen how the average person acts after winning the lottery?

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 23:10 | 1366767 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

See:  Phillip K. Dick, Solar Lottery

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:08 | 1365801 proLiberty
proLiberty's picture

I keep a minimum of my financial assets denominated in fiat currency.   Further, I offer to pay local repair people in PM, and some of them take me up on it. 

 

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 17:34 | 1365890 Occams Aftershave
Occams Aftershave's picture

Folks who get regular payments from govt are not going to go along with this, and they are the majority, unfortunately.    This includes, unemployment, welfare, food stamps, social security, disability, veterans, retired public employees, and no doubt a hundred other programs.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:08 | 1365986 CH1
CH1's picture

True, but they may not have any choice pretty soon. The checks will either stop or not matter.

And then... Warning shots first, folks. It's about survival, not revenge.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 20:11 | 1366319 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

yep.

when I shoot at people trying to harm my family (after appropriate retreat and warnings and escalation of force) it is nothing personal.

I feel fairly safe for a minor TEOTWAWKI.  thank god americans still have the right to bear arms and kill intruders, at least in Arkansas and Tennessee.

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:31 | 1366070 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

The United States, at one time, had debtors prisons. I predict that the bankters will have the Congress that they own and control re-instate debtors prisons in the near future. But, this time they will be privatized. Don't pay your mortgage, don't pay your credit cards, in you go. Wall Street will make a profit off of all the "deadbeats" The IPO for "Debtors Incarcerations and Reeducation Inc." will be bigger the Google's. I want to be in on the IPO!

Mon, 06/13/2011 - 18:43 | 1366097 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I thought Financial Tranny was Timmah's porn name.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 15:33 | 1366490 malek
malek's picture

On the contributors:

  • Yeah, Gabriel, that will for sure automatically lead to a new and much better system.
  • Harun I. has it right - I had also talked to a lot of people about going http://moveyourmoney.info and pretty much all answered: but I have friends working at my (TBTF) local branch office!
  • About piling up on loans: fantastic, we already have gazillions on bad loans that will never get paid back, and the losses cannot be taken by the insolvent banking system (even if they were legally forced to really do so), so anyway the losses will be eaten by us the people.

Killing a wrong system is OK, but then you also need a plan for a better replacement.
We need accountability, for everyone on everything.
And you need to live by that starting now right after your realization, and not only after the current system has collapsed. Never has an approach worked that proposed to do the easy thing now and the hard thing later!!!
Unplug from the system (as much as possible), don't try to game it as it will most likely game you instead.

Note: Defaulting on an existing mortgage, which you took out without the intent of defaulting on it, is completely moral and should be done as a conscious business decision within the legal terms of that contract.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 01:57 | 1366989 rosario
rosario's picture

Another action is to publicize HR6550 submitted by Dennis Kucinich - This bill removes the Federal Reserve Bank from prosecuting its debt-based monetary system and allows money to be spent by Congress without simulataneously creating debt and necessitating repayment through Federal Taxes.  It also bans fractional lending by banks which means they lend only what they have and can no longer practice legal counterfeiting for their own benefit.  Truly the spirit of the revolution IMO...

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