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The only real solution: Step away from the corrupt (and corrupting) game.
Stop participating in the dollar system by transacting in Bitcoins.
Damn just posted about that below.
Bullshit, bitCONs can be manipulated just as easy as any fiat. Invest your time in assets and endeavors that can not be manipulated by any Ph.D. fucknut with a computer. Good arable land, clean water, food and sources of energy. There are numerous options for all these options, now get the fuck off the couch and go meet your neighbors. You will require their help for your survival.
I take it you are mad because people are transacting in a currency that can't be manipulated by a central bank.
Your swearing and lies will not make it go away.
No, just not stupid. Anything that exists on a computer can be corrupted I have known too many programmers (I have one damn good one working for me). After building a company from nothing, I can tell you one thing. You better be damn sure that there is trust in everything you do. Every deal you make, every product you sell. At the foundation of why the system is failing is the loss of transparency and accountability. Anything that can be easily manipulated, is not a good store of value. I would love to buy and sell everyday, but that is not how big investments get made. Sold a lot of paper gold in November at a huge profit to expand some operations (I am in agriculture and business is booming thanks to the bernanke). What is happening now has been played out hundreds of times throughout history. Turn off the X-box and computer, move out of your mother's basement and actually go create something of real value for a change.
I am a software developer.
You are lying about the possible manipulation of Bitcoin.
The NSA considers SHA2 secure and the Bitcoin software is open source so everyone can see the security of the system for themselves.
Holding Bitcoins is no more or less risky in terms of network security than putting your money into an electronic bank account.
Sell your bullshit to someone else please. Any and all software, can be manipulated. Best of all it can be outright shutdown by being unplugged. The only credit you get is recognizing how important it is to be at the top of any ponzi. Good luck with your bitCONing.
The only one peddeling bullshit here is you.
If you are so concerned about network security I assume you only hold cash or gold.
Of course I'm sure you don't, which simply points out the ridiculousness of your absurd claims.
"Of course I'm sure you don't, which simply points out the ridiculousness of your absurd claims."
No shit sherlock. You are indeed a moron. I still conduct business in many forms of money. The number one rule in investing is to be diverse, but having lived through the 70's, investing in paper and physical PMs was a no brainer. Sounds to me like you are the bitter idiot. How much real value do your endeavors bring to the economy?
Tell you what, tell me who to contact and I will make a significant investment in bitCON. The only catch is they have to put the servers right next to mine at one of my properties. At least then, I know I will still have the real value of the server.
There is no owner of bitcoin, there is no central server, there is no central point of authority over the monetary system.
If you want a Bitcoin server next to your own, all you have to do is install the client on your server farm. It is free open source software.
If you want to invest in Bitcoins, create an account on Mt. Gox and buy some.
You're arguing with an old timer/troll who's stuck in the horse and buggy ages. No use.
I guess, that all depends on net worth and who is taking who's form of money. bitcoins may come to pass, but unfortunately, my suppliers don't take them. Good luck buying food with bitcoins when the shit hits the fan.
Bit coins are not to be held. They are to be spent or converted immediately. That ends the problem of fraud harming your "savings" in bit coins which really were not a "saving" mechanism anyway.
Open Source software is much less at risk of being hijacked.
How else could Debian and Ubuntu (to name only a few) thrive? How else could Apache command a 63% market share of all HTTP servers?
It's a strong system because you can download and verify the entire program yourself before you compile and run it. You don't have to rely on misplaced trust (read dollars).
"Holding Bitcoins is no more or less risky in terms of network security than putting your money into an electronic bank account."
Precisely why physical assets and having a valuable survival skill set will be so important until accountability returns to the system (most likely after WWIII).
Besides which, the encryptation (while robust by today's standards) could easily be broken in the future when quantum computers come on line, not to mention rapid inflation by the same (they are generated by using processor cycles).
It's also hard to spend ShitCoins when the power goes out.
This is only somewhat true in the fact that full quantum computing is still theoretical. But let us suppose that in the distant future computing power is sufficient to break SHA2 (which I find unlikely).
What would happen is people would exchange their Bitcoins that use SHA2 encryption for a version that utilizes SHA3 encryption. The markets would manage this cross over.
SHA3 doesn't even exist yet, so trying to project the security of the system out in the future on theoretical grounds is a pointless exercise.
Further, consider the implications for our current banking system. It is all electronic and would face the same security threats.
Ignore them, Michael. They want it NOT to be possible.
No. As a smart investor I would love another safe store for my value. The burden is on Michael to demonstrate to me that it is possible.
I wouldn't consider Bitcoins a safe investment, they are still what I would consider a speculative investment.
The market is still new and young, but as more people invest it will grow to become a world changing power.
If you don't want to take a large risk, then don't put a lot of money in. It is as simple as that. But don't sit here and say that Bitcoins are manipulatible when they most certainly are not.
"But don't sit here and say that Bitcoins are manipulatible when they most certainly are not."
But they are. You want more people to invest. Get off you high horse, knock the chip of you shoulder, and explain in layman's terms why a simple power outage, internet outage, fire in the server room, flood in the server room or genius hacker can't crack the code or make bitcoins impossible to spend or disappear. If you want to convince me that bitcoins are trustworthy then behave professionally (ergo don't get baited by a troll) and be upfront about all the weaknesses. People's trust and understanding of real value has been lost and fraud is the status quo. People are going into survival mode (because they have too, not necessarily because they want to), if they can't exchange bitcoins immediately and at any time (esp[ecially during a crisis) then they won't buy into it. Again you are failing to recognize an opportunity and give it the necessary professionalism and effort and I am out of time.
I got into this debate on another site, and I still have yet to be convinced- but at least you seem to be more lucid.
I think the problem that this debate is running up against is one of optimism. Optimism not only about the prospects of this technology, but also about the robustness of our infrastructure.
I have two objections to this technology as I understand it- the first is the inherant inequality of distribution. You pointed it out yourself when you said a person could just plug it into their server farm. Sorry man, no server farm here. I don't even have a playstation. Just an ASUS netbook and a zippy internet connection. To "mine" bitcoins, I would have to give up all other processes (yes, I tried) and I'm unwilling to do that. But, there are IT pros and teenage gamers who have massive cycle time to spare. They benefit from the distribution, and I just don't think that distribution based on access to technology is more equitable than distribution based on labor or trade.
The second is that I am not entirely convinced that the internet as a whole will survive intact in a crisis situation. There are two reasons- the first is physical, where rolling blackouts, bomb strikes, etc. can damage the actual infrastructure and eliminate access to funds when they are needed, and the second is cyber-warfare. We haven't seen what it can do yet, and it's a big sell to put needed assets online before the effects are known. I am anticipating that while networked computers are with us to stay, there will be periods of time when a combination of cyber attacks and infrastructure damage will balkanize the internet, reducing the value of the technology.
It's a neat idea, and you *should* keep promoting and developing it, but I don't think it's got enough behind it to really be useful until after a severe reset. I'm all for competing currencies, and wish you the best of luck, I'm just not in.
"Further, consider the implications for our current banking system. It is all electronic and would face the same security threats."
Wow, Micheal recognizes a single valid problem that has a very complex reason behind it. Again this argues for physical assets.
Yes, future transactions will be done in cyber space, I run a business and have, at last count, roughly 20,000 customers that are depending on our agriculture products. I can' change physical metals on a daily basis, BUT, that does not mean I can not trade them or hold them as a store of value for myself, my employees and the future investments of the company.
for thousands of years PMs have remained a safe store of value. Business rule number one; when the economy is humming and PMs are cheap, accumulate them and invest in the paper if you can. When times get tough, sell the "paper gold" and reinvest in your people and company in order to weather the storm.
If you are simply saying that people (and markets) will always demand accountability, well no shit, at least 2000+ years of history shows that. If you want bitCON to work, prove to me that it is a safe store of value.
Having been investing for some time now, I can tell you that the burden for success is on your shoulders, not mine. It looks like you recognize the fraud and lack of accountability in the collapsing system, get rid of the feel good bullshit and show everyone how this system is more stable (especially in a global economy that is about to get very unstable - i.e. undependable energy delivery, google Fukashima). You won't even concede the fact that bitCON exchange requires a working power grid a, functional internet, and (most important) people with real value to offer in exchange. The key being REAL VALUE. I do business in a physical world, not a computer one. Get one of my suppliers to take bitcoins and then lets talk.
YOu don't hold bitcoins. You use them up quickly to buy drugs and strippers. This minimizes the problem of network security since as soon as you buy a bit coin you should spend it
FYI - you may not like my language, but it is just that, language. This should not deter you. If you represent the average bitCON user and you can't overcome someone cursing on a blog, then I am even less convinced that bitCON can be successful. Suck it up pussy, nothing in life that is worth anything is free. The best rewards require a lot of hard work. In fact, I would argue that the "free" shit ends up costing you a lot more in the end.
In a more direct response to you comment - You empty promises and language won't make bitCON anymore successful either.
Why in the hell did you guys chose a name like bitCON, why not something like "Stablebit" or "trustbit".
I bet the NSA or some similar alphabet agency of the government could manipulate it if it became a threat the dollar.
No one said you had to go all in LoP.
So your solution is to replace one manipulatable system with another. No thanks. People the world over are demanding accountability. Let me guess, all the bitCON users are "trustworthy". Bullshit, as history as shown over and over for thousands of years physical assets always hold their value, especially assets required for survival. If you kids want to replace one ponzi with another, go for it. Hey, at least you have learned how important it is to be at the top of the ponzi.
Do yourself a favour and do some basic reading about the system first.
I have and I may or may not be participating (didn't disclose that either). I am the investor, I am NOT the one that needs to convince anyone of that bitcoinis a safe store of value with significant purchasing power. That burden rests upon those who want bitcoin to succeed. As far as I can tell, none of them understand things like real value. Even those computer dollars I can change into real dollars and still buy stuff with them, even in a crisis. More so with my physical metals. How does bitcoin top that? I am giving you a chance to convince me otherwise, and no one has yet to do so.
Bitcoin is instantly exchangeable for real dollars whenever you like. Personally I couldn't give a fuck about whether you do or don't like bitcoin. Its a system that could bring about massive change if the market deems it worthy but I am not selling or profiting from it in anyway and am only looking to raise awareness that a potential new (another) means of circumventing the system is currently in existance. I could see bitcoin working well alongside PMs as the transactional component vs store of value. One of the beauties of bit coins is that the only profit to be made is accepting them early.There are no channels of people who have a right to their production. Even then only 6million of 21 million are currently released and the rest come from miners - so any tech guy can start getting his hands on them thereby stopping any one person from accumulating too many (which would stop them becoming widely accepted anyway).
Once again, personally I couldn't give a fuck if you take them or not. I am knew to the concept myself but so far, the more I look the more I like.
"One of the beauties of bit coins is that the only profit to be made is accepting them early."
This sounds like a store of value that stores no value. This is a banker's dream.
You and your "bitCON" usage are like those retards that cry about "rethuglicans" and "demoncraps". You have not yet once demonstrated even the most rudimentary knowledge of how bitcoin works. Arguing that bitcoins can be manipulated into existence with any sort of ease is akin to some other loud-mouthed asshole arguing gold isn't safe because of alchemy. Dig your head out of your shit stained coveralls and read something you ignorant yokel.
"Dig your head out of your shit stained coveralls and read something you ignorant yokel."
Glad to see your home schooling has paid off.
"gold isn't safe because of alchemy"
Hey phucknut, read the saying at the top of the page, nothing lasts forever. I understand bitcoin, now tell me again how it is better than the computer money I already have in multiple local banks that I can turn into real cash (and always have some) or the physical gold and silver that I have. Both the FRNs and physical metals I can exchange in a crisis (when there is no internet or power).
I run a business, I spend and take in thousands of dollars and euros a day. none of my customers have bitcoins, none of my suppliers take bitcoins. This is the REAL world dumbass, get out of your mom's basement and off the computer and come join us. Life is messy, shit happens, convince me that I can trust bitcoin (as an investor I would love another stable store of value). Grow the fuck up dude. You really want bitcoin to work, answer the fucking questions. tossing insults is easy (and fun for some).
I have no interest in educating you for free. If you want to pony up a few dozen shekels out of your vast "stores of wealth" doom bunker for what can easily be searched out on your own for free, let me know. Otherwise, just read the link already provided to you.
There are plenty of people "in real business" that accept bitcoin. That you and your backward ass suppliers and customers don't is of no interest to me.
Sure, conrad. Name one. As far as what we do, we feed people, we are in agriculture, I guess it all depends whether or not you need to eat. Can you eat bitcoins like i-pads? So maybe bitcoin and TPTB are not so different after all. Again, kudos for recognizing how important it is to be at the top of any ponzi.
I read the literature on bitcoin, now I am hungry, help me out where can I exchange some bitcoins for some food and drink? I never said I didn't like the idea (the masses are demanding an accountable system), just it's current implementation and representation.
Here's a tip - bitcoin runs Peer2Peer like music file sharing, why don't you ask the 'real' music industry how that kiddie internet shit is working out for them. Now just replace "music industry" with "financial control of the globe" but hey fuck whatever, your a big man so what would you care.
Fuck i am sick to shit of egotistical fuck stains who let the fact they are someones boss go to there head. Just another shitstain mid sized business owner who thinks he owns everybody cause no one at work tells him to shut the fuck up.
I read the literature on bitcoin, now I am hungry, help me out where can I exchange some bitcoins for some food and drink?
I read the literature on bitcoin, now I am hungry, help me out where can I exchange some bitcoins for some food and drink?
For such a fiercely independent entrepeneur, you sure are incapable of doing anything on your own.
and you might want to pony up on alchemy, dreamer.
The same end of the line. Yipee.
Here's the thing, bud- you wouldn't be educating anyone for free. Since you're an early adopter, you stand to benefit the most from encouraging the use of the technology. The mosre people you can convince, the more the value of the finite bitcoin increases. If you hold them, and convince others to use them, you will be paid in increased purchasing power.
If you demand payment for your remarkable teaching abilities in any other form of currency, you are shooting yourself in the foot.
Case in point, I'm a silver advocate. There is plenty of pre-1964 US coinage around to use as an alternate currency if it comes to that, so I spend a portion of my time educating my particular circle of family, friends, coworkers and neighbors about the issue, so that I do not end up holding a useless sack of shiny bits when the SHTF because nobody knows what they should be valued at.
So, I do work in exchange for these coins, and offer them as payment as often as possible. Instead of denominating payment in terms of dollars, I set prices in terms of ounces. Even if I take a small loss because of the whipsawing of the market, I consider the education more important right now. And no, my day job does not pay me in silver- this is transactional money in side hustles like repair jobs and cabinet making.
Even those who choose not to transact in metal tend to look into it, and have it in the back of their mind. I explain the market, and the reasoning behind what I am doing. Then, we have a useful dialogue started. What I don't do is shove a silver half dollar at someone for payment, and then tell them that they're an ignorant bitch if they don't accept it.
If you want bitcoin to become a real player, you need to do something similar. Not only that, but it wouldn't hurt to educate based on the open-source model that bitcoin is built on. A way better response here would be something along the lines of:
Yes, a few of the developers had the same concerns, and we determined that network stability is far less of an issue than it would appear, because the cell network was improved and hardened against attack as part of the response to the September 11th attacks. We're developing some cellphone apps to take advantage of that. But, we're still looking for any creative ideas to improve this- what would make you more comfortable with the technology?
It has to work better than Because I said so, you stupid piece of crap- which is, unfortunately, the only argument I've really seen from any advocate of bitcoin so far. If that is all you can bring to the table, have fun trading your virtual fun bucks for super weapons in your role-playing games, while the adults continue to work towards real solutions that will allow you to keep drinking Jolt and eating pizza rolls in your Mom's basement.
laudable idea, but in reality bitcoins lost 60% of their value in 48 hours a couple of days ago.
Sure, it is a brand new currency. It will be volitile until it gains broader acceptance.
No reason not to get involved in it though.
ShitCON can be gamed, just like any fiat. The system is failing because there is no accountability or transparency. BitCON offers none either. Even gold and silver can be manipulated, but less so with physical assets. Own physical assets, be capable of adding physical value yourself (i.e. have a tradable skill). Why own physical assets? Because they can not be manipulated by some fucktard with a computer. Go ahead, walk onto a farm or into someone's house and try to destroy the value of some of there physical assets and see what kind of response you get. Better yet, save yourself some time and go shoot yourself in the head.
+ 2x every 2 years
LoP, you're banging your head against the wall here. I agree that tradeable skills do have and will have even more value as things unwind. Arable land is a must, but is useless if you don't know how to farm it. This past weekend, as I was canning this year's tomato crop, I was overwhelmed with gratitude for the life lessons I learned from my grandparents. The ability to farm on both large and small scales, the ability to preserve the fruits of that farming effort and the manual skills (I'm machinist and can fix anything that's fixable and some things that aren't).
Bitcoin has its defenders including survivalblog.com, however, I don't share this admiration for some of the reasons you mention. Also, Chuckie Schumer has introduced or is in the process of introducing legislation to outlaw bitcoin as counterfitting, the .guv doesn't like competition.
I'll stick with my land, garden and canning skills any day and will live long and prosper will the bitconers starve.
I agree completely, but as an investor looking for additional safe stores for my wealth, I want to give them the opportunity (in the face of adversity - gee that's the real world) to show some spark of genius that I missed. Don't see it yet. Don't discount the younger generation, I have kids and want them to be more successful than me.
Ooh, ooh, a BitCoin/resistance thread! Time to respam my growing manifesto on Project Mayhem... powered by BitCoin:
Get to know your neighbors well, buy local, hoard stuff. No heroics till after the hyperinflation and the bloody crackdown. That shitstorm will awaken more of the sheeple and peel off some of the cops and bureaucratic drones, because it will be clear that their pensions are already gone. Also, wait until a large number of protestors are slaughtered or a large number of people end up in FEMA camps. Need to get more cops and military on our side, so I suspect that he who fires the first shot will lose the revolution. Let them fire the first shot.
Need to get them to waste time or turn on each other where possible. Leave empty bags around. If you know someone who works for the Beast, plant some reefer on his property where it will eventually be kinda visible from a road. This will encourage narcs and civil forfeiture. Crank-call a rent-a-cop at an elite university and tell him he must have really enjoyed busting up your frat party last week because his dick is so small. Tell him you know this because his sister is a Craigslist call girl and she compared your huge dinosaur dick to his little pecker. Tell him he will have to work all year busting parties to match the booze money you took out of Daddy's trust fund for just that one party.
Go to a donut shop with a friend and talk about this silver bug who was talking about a monster box at the bottom of one of the outhouse pits in the national park but you don't know which outhouse. Know your local pigmen and dream up devious ways to exploit their paranoia and greed. Conversely, try not to fall for it when the elites use this tactic on us. They would very much love for this to turn into a race war or a mutual narc-fest.
Tie the bureaucracy in knots by swamping it, turning it against itself, or forcing it into absurd positions. If you work for them, even indirectly, quit your job but keep showing up for "work". Insist on doing things by the book. Have lots of irrelevant meetings with lots of buzzwords and academic nonsense. If anyone questions you about this, tell them they lack cooperative spirit/patriotism/respect for diversity/ watever. If you get snickers and scowls from trustworthy people, take them aside later, tell them what your are doing and keep them as contacts for when the shit really hits the fan. Go on the dole and max out your CCs and encourage your family to do likewise- but plow the money into PMs and supplies instead of mortgages and consumer crap.
Stay mobile and stay away from cities. Get a pickup truck with supplies, and keep up with your rural contacts and survival skills. You and a few buddies could last quite a while on BLM land if you need to.
Get some silver and BitCoins while you still can. BitCoins have the kleptocracy protection of PMs, and they are highly divisible and a lot easier to stuff through an ethernet cable. The number of coins is mathematically capped at 21 million. Figure in population increase and loss of coins due to shattered hard drives, etc. and this will be a deflationary currency. Good for saving, certainly much better than bonds. I wouldn't be shocked to see a $21 trillion Bitcoin market emerge if the kleptocracy gets really bad. That means an exchange rate of $1m per Bitcoin (currently $9 per BitCoin). So even though BitCoin is up 3000x since the first recorded PayPal trades in April 2010, it could easily run up by another multiple of 3000.
There were many blocks of 10,000 that traded back in the good 'ol days. I have only a small fraction of that because I bought in last month, but there are probably hordes of crypto-anarchist geeks out there who will ultimately be worth billions of clownbux. The ones closest to the nerve center will be the richest and they will also hate the system the most.
Now, imagine what will happen after the inevitable hyperinflation, food riots and brutal crackdown. The government will have lost all legitimacy in the eyes of the people, and everyone will be looking around to see who throws the first Molotov. Enter BitCoin. It's just a matter of time until someone posts a YouTube video of a flaming cop car while holding a poster of their BitCoin address. Only shutting down the internet will stop the distributed anarchist horde from donating. Word will spread. Crimminals will target the powerful instead of the middle class. Eventually the going rate might be .01 BTC per flaming cop car, .1 BTC per flaming cop, 1 BTC per flaming federal building, 100 BTC for a Rothschild dosed with scopolamine and mindfucked into spilling all his dark secrets before he is eaten alive by maggots. Even this would only be a drop in the horde's ocean of buying power. I think we are going to have a lot of cypherpunks living in Dubai penthouses surrounded by hookers but wanking to the increasingly creative homebrew snuff porn they finance. Their combined mayhem fund might even exceed the Rothschilds' mayhem fund. Even without this level of funding, you can still use your BitCoins to buy liquid LSD from Silk Road, and have it shipped anywhere in the US. Stalk politicians and dose their car door handles. Go visit banks and federal buildings with a little bottle of breath spray, blessing keyboards or "employees only" doorknobs or whatever Eris tells you to.
Project Mayhem is coming. This is the will of Eris, who always knows the one action which will turn any situation into a total clusterfuck. She is one of our most important allies, and with her help, the whole world will be in flames within two years.
Forgot about the good ol' sacred chao...
I'd like to suggest that the Bitcoin naysayers take a breath and calm down and maybe take a closer look at the idea. Granted it's a radical and new idea and thus comes with some risk attached, but what else in life doesn't have risk?
Bitcoins exist and they have strengths and weaknesses. If this scheme works as advertised, then it's a tremendous boon for the resistance. Look at Bitcoins as another method of diversification.
After reading the flame war about this, I offer another introduction to Bitcoins at http://grandfubar.com/introducing-bitcoins
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