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Convert the oil companies into not-for-profit organizations. That will lower the price!
That's called "Nationalization" and it never works. The quickest way for a resource to become more expensive and more scarce, is for the gov't to get involved.
Not-for-Profit is not the same as nationalization!
In the case of Oil is certainly is
In the case of Oil it certainly is.
You can say that again.
Is that you ilene? "Nationalize them!"
Got any other bright ideas, Wesley Mouch?
The Peak oil myth is a convenient cover for the mismanagment of the dollar and speculative greed. And I guess we'll just have to keep liberating all of those MENA oil producing countries. No choice, really.
Stick to repairing bicyles.
Geology/Physics/Laws of Thermodynamics doesn't seem to be your strong suit.
Keep chasing your tail. I hope you get paid for it, otherwise it is a pitiful waste of a life.
Anybody who brings up the Laws of Thermodynamics into a real world scenario (as opposed to closed sphere experimental setup) clearly demonstrates he has no clue what he is talking about.
People like you would blame every economic collapse in history on peak something. Blaming this boogieman is quite convenient for our masters, as they can simply blame the lack of oil and claim that there was never anything anyone else could do.
Scream "Peak Oil" for long enough, and eventually you will have a depression that you can point to as evidence of such.
Further, I am getting very tired of people failing to understand the laws of thermodynamics. Thermodynamics doesn't mean a whole lot when you A, have a giant floating ball of ostensibly infinite energy floating in the sky, and B, when you can design long-lasting capital investments that capture said energy with little or no marginal cost.
All things are possible with energy, and we've got PLENTY. We just have to learn to use it, whether that means photovoltaic roofing tiles, thermovoltaic devices, desert algae farms using brackish aquifer water, or some other thing no-one has thought of yet.
Hell, even in the field of oil recovery, there are quantum leaps coming down the line. Things like piping and equipment that resist oxidation by bacteria, ionic liquids that allow truly EASY extraction from oil sands and non-producing wells, or simple fracking combined with chemical methods to produce liquid fuel from low hydrocarbons.
amen to sensible thought!!
These peak oil arguments are lunacy - easily discredited once we begin to use "some other thing no one has thought of yet."
Next time you fill up your tank, walk inside and ask for 5 gallons of "something we haven't thought of."
If only our fighter jets had solar panels on their wings, perhaps the DoD wouldn't be consuming over 350,000 barrels of oil per day.
And on a personal note, I'm rather excited about buying a desert algae farm using brackish aquifer waters. So are all my neighbors!
Solar, algae and "things we haven't thought of": The way forward.
I think this is the great example of why so many pin their hopes on the "as-yet-unknown-future-technology-fix". We just pop together the as-yet-unknown free energy device into the as-yet-unknown spaceship and fly to the as-yet-unknown destination and *wham!* populate the galaxy.
classic example of "cant see past your nose syndrome"
The world was once about to run out of whale oil.
phew, thank god we have something to fall back on. i'm going out next week and stock up on some whale oil.
Are you suggesting that as much of society then was built on whale oil as today is built on crude?
The key is we need something right now to offset the falling production of the huge net energy bounty that we used to get from putting a straw in the sand (the true "pull it out of the ground for $5" deal!)
The most developed and well known contenders, such as solar (great EROEI and no transmission problems), would require thousands of factories churning product out, not to mention the legions of installation businesses, and other requirements.
You can't turn an elephant (the economy) on a dime, and this elephant is built on _cheap_ (high EROEI) oil. It's a numbers game, not an engineering game.
Ten years ago, no-one had thought of graphene. Now it is recognized as the strongest material known to man, and is about to enter mass production due to new production techniques that were discovered last year. Ionic liquids have been around for decades, but no-one thought to use them in oil recovery until a couple of years ago. Testing shows that they are in fact able to recover oil from both tar sands and minimally productive wells without the need to heat the ground.
But hey, you are just here to pursue a personal vendetta against me and will take any side that is the opposite of mine when you think you can use it against me.
RNR, you are such a cowardly shit.
You should focus less on algae farms and more on understanding what an asymptote looks like. Plot "energy needs" on the x axis, "rate of oil extraction" on the y axis, then tell me how algae farms or solar panels will stop the asymptote from careening toward zero.
No one is arguing that technology moves forward. The question is how effective new technology will be in stopping the asymptote from stifling growth and/or outright crushing us.
By the way, I'm not RNR, nor do I have a vendetta against you. You continually post the most ridiculous comments - that's all.
Uh-huh. So you're trying to tell me all libtards are exactly the same to the extent that they are impossible to tell apart?
They all adopt ridiculous troll personas and then start posting their real opinions later? They all come to hate tmosley within a week of registration? And I don't mean just come after him. I mean know HUGE amounts about him, that would have required digging through tens of thousands of posts to find, had they not participated in those conversations with him under another user name.
If you are plotting graphs with "energy needs" from a US perspective- you can stop there, the exercise is pointless until the monetary situation is stabilized. Plot GDP growth, Money Supply Growth, Oil Price change, CRB index change on a chart. Everything will get more expensive in the US as a result of the lunatics running the asylum.
As much as I bash the Peak Oilers for there flat earth production maps and methodology failures- the end of cheap USD denominated oil is a reality, but it has nothing to do with geology.
tmosley, oil reserve depletion is like an escalator that is going down at increasing speeds. Oil production is like running up on this escalator. Initially it is easy; the escalator moves down very slowly and you can easily move up by walking at a leisurely pace. Eventually the escalator is going to move down at such a high speed that you have to run as hard as you can to just stay in place. That is where we are now and that is peak oil. Eventually, no matter how hard you run, the escalator takes you down. Improvements in technology allow you to run slightly faster but does not change the final outcome.
Uhhh, no. That is a terrible analogy. The two domains don't even intersect.
You are basically saying no matter what, we are all going to die next Thursday.
Such sentiments are that of Death Worship. Suggest you go pray to Ba'al for a quick death and leave life to the living.
I think you are an idiot. I never said anything about death.
The descending elevator is analogous to an oil well that starts depleting the moment you start extracting oil from it. You can increase overall oil production by drilling more wells but they also start depleting. Eventually new discoveries peak and some decades after that the overall production peaks. Oil discoveries peaked in 1964 and production peaked in 2005 - now.
The world was running out of oil one hundred years ago. Amazingly, we aren't back to the horse and carriage yet. There is plenty of oil. How much do we want ot pay to extract it? Canada and Venezuels each have 1.5 trillion barrels of oil, which dwarfs the oilfields in Saudi Arabia. The Artic and Antartic haven't even been touched yet. The Pacific and Atlantic Oceans have hardly been touched.
How much do we want to pay or will have to pay? None of your reasoning contradicts severe economic effects and adaptation.
Yeah, you are. You preach the gospel of "give up and die". "It only gets harder as time goes on". "There is no such thing as new technology". "There is no hope". "Pray that you will be the first killed by dead Chthulu."
You IGNORE all scientific advance, which has stopped and now reversed you stupid analogy with ionic liquids.
Watch the video there. We aren't all going to die next Thursday. Get over it.
Not busting your balls, just pointing out some inconsistencies to a fellow chemist.
Graphene was postulated and known longer than ten years ago, getting enough for proper chemical study was the problem, until the use of sticky tape on graphite allowed enough to be studied to prove graphene did indeed exist.
Ionic liquids have been used for fuel extraction and analysis since 2001.
The problem with those alternative energy concepts is they don't scale large enough. I once went to a talk given by the head of Boeing's biofuels division. He claimed that in 20-30 years half the world's airplanes would be running on biofuels. In the Q&A part of the talk I asked him how much arable land would it take to grow the crops needed to replace half the current daily usage of jet fuels with biofuels. He told me it would take land equal to the size of Pennsylvania. So in a world with shrinking amounts of arable land and ever-increasing population, we're going to carve out a farm the size of Pennsylvania to grow biofuels?
How much land is devoted to growing azaleas? Cucumbers? Carrots?
How much of that land is useless desert waste? How many of those crops are fed by brackish water?
Oh yeah, algae and genetically engineered bacteria can be fed by that otherwise totally useless crap.
Also, there are 690,000 square miles in cultivation in the US today. Pennsylvania is 45,000 square miles. So less than 10% of farmland would need to meet your goal. But farmland isn't needed. And your biofuels talk was probably about some crap like ethanol, not algae, and certainly not about the new fuel producing bugs.
Tell Ba'al I'm coming for him.
"Hell, even in the field of oil recovery, there are quantum leaps coming down the line. Things like piping and equipment that resist oxidation by bacteria, ionic liquids that allow truly EASY extraction from oil sands and non-producing wells, or simple fracking combined with chemical methods to produce liquid fuel from low hydrocarbons."
Pfft! That would require new technology. Everyone knows there is no such thing and nothing changes except in simple linear relationships. You just don't understand Geology, Physics, Mathematics, Astronomy, Astrology, and Women's Studies!
yes...THERE BE UNICORNS
Don't you idiots understand geometric growth? Obviously not.
Because if our technology miracle allows us to DOUBLE the amount of oil production, how much time does that buy us?
If you can't figure out the bacteria in the bottle problem and how FUTILE it is for the bacteria even to expand their resource base near headroom by 1024x, then you desperately need to STFU.
None of this has anything to do with anything other than the basic math of geometric growth.
That's "logarithmic" growth.
For those who wish to understand......
Thank you for posting this link, pops. I watched all 8 videos in the series. Normally, I wouldn't post in a thread on this topic, as I am cognizant of my own degree of ignorance on this issue. This presentation helped me achieve an enhanced level of understanding on the subject of exponential/logarithmic growth and finite resource depletion.
uh, no it isn't...it is geometric. Or exponential. If you want log, you must mean base 2
Ok, to start, Trav wants Eugenics to be practiced. He wants to "save" us from starvation caused by peak oil. This is why he will NEVER accept the fact that new technology can every be implemented, and will deny facts that are shoved right in his face (ie ionic liquids), or acknowledge the possibility of any form of nuclear, wind or solar application--even with another 20, 50, 100, 1000, or a billion years of research.
Fri, 02/18/2011 - 15:49 |
trav7777 (Total Score:1)
wtf is wrong with eugenics? Why should we condemn the cretins to a future of starvation? Likewise, humanity as an institution, cannot afford to have itself breeded back into the stone ages by cretins.
genocide of inferior populations is in fact an evolutionary MANDATE
More eugenics bullshit:
on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 22:18
You're an idiot...you should not reproduce.
The SB IQ test was not in ANY WAY intended to promote eugenics. IQ tests have literally nothing whatsoever to do with a DESIRE to promote one type of person over another. Some people may have seized on them in order to justify such a promotion- in case you didn't figure out by what I said earlier, moron, I AM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE. I pretty clearly stated as much, so if you think you are going to say OMG RACISSS EUGENICIST and I am going to, what? I'm gonna fuckin deny it when I JUST SUGGESTED IT?
Does it occur to you that east asians have the HIGHEST average score on these exams? WTF, reality shits on you again. I am not east asian, btw. But it doesn't matter, as a general case does not speak to a specific one.
Besides, the low IQ races underperform in every test of cognition, not just SB. Pick a test. The reality of subsaharan Africa is that intelligence there is exceptionally low, which is why people walk miles for water instead of building pipes and why it has no history of even the indigenous written word.
My race or sex has nothing to do with me; I am an individual. It is a matter of fact that whites and males have substantially higher sigmas to their IQ distributions than other groups...so what? You may be a white male and you are still an idiot. Being a white male doesn't endow you with the genius IQ of other white males by the virtue of the irrelevant color of your skin. That skin covers an idiot.
NO race norming would be performed for a reproduction threshold; the tests are race-blind. The reason africans average lower scores is because africans have lower average cognitive capacity. This is just simply the way it is.
Math and abstract reasoning are not racist, you sniveling idiot, and IQ tests are not crafted to reflect memorization. JFC, they give these tests the world over. Do the world a favor and attempt to become educated.
For you to claim that there is a "white" and "european" intelligence is utterly absurd.
reply flag as junk (0)
on Sun, 03/06/2011 - 22:25
the vast majority of people cannot understand geometric compounding.
So maybe we need to set the bar at 140; whatever.
The population needs to decrease and get smarter. If at that point, we have to craft a BNW type outcome, fine.
Grow OR die leads to death because growth CANNOT continue forever. I am a bacteria at 10 minutes to midnight sounding an alarm.
Now, he brings up the fact that blacks have low IQs. Funny, considering that was the explicit distinction he picked for forced sterilization.
on Thu, 12/30/2010 - 23:52
YES, some races are BETTER than others, if you want advanced medicine, electricity, the written word, the computer, the lightbulb and all the rest of that shit.
WTF is wrong with you people? Especially that uncle tom apologist with his "RACISSSSS" epithet in the previous post? I mean what.tha.fuck??
Look at HISTORY. Which race is it that the people who invented EVERYTHING AROUND YOU came from? And in the sickest of ironies, people from that race actually feel GUILT over the fact that it wasn't brown people who did everything!
They welcome multiculturalism...wtf? ALL cultures are NOT EQUAL. I don't LIKE cultures of destruction and misery, of primitivity, like all throughout the brown world. I don't WANT the ghetto culture of murder and criminality. I don't WANT african culture that didn't possess the written word until it was oppressed by white people with it or the native american culture that ALSO lacked the written word and the fucking wheel.
WTF is the matter with people these days that they think all cultures are equivalent? Multiculturalism is a SICK JOKE and a crime against human progress.
The more mexicans we get, the more we are like mexico. The more the diversity, the lower the average IQ. DO THE MATH, shit just keeps getting worse. Diversity is a FRAUD and pretending that all races are equal is a crime. For example, we continuously hear how bad the US is globally in terms of aptitude tests, but if you examine AT ALL the demographics breakdowns, you see that the bad aggregate score we have as a nation is ENTIRELY DUE to hispanics and blacks! Yet NOBODY can mention these "hate facts" without having a white uncle tom condemn him as a RACIST.
People who refuse to accept reality as it IS are suicidal fools.
Thu, 12/30/2010 - 22:44 | trav7777 (Total Score:1)
AWSUMZ...I mean taking philosophy and guidance from a fucking wal mart cashier.
I truly WANT genes in my bloodline with average IQs of 85, I mean who wouldn't?
99/100 would choose to have sex, wtf? And get knocked up by some ghetto thug who will end up in prison and pass on his criminal and idiot genes to the little mulatto offspring who then grow up with a trash mom and no dad? Sounds like a recipe for technological progress to me, right? I mean, think of ALL THE INVENTIONS by the brown people over the centuries...all one of them.
WOW...great advice wal mart. 99/100 would choose to doom their kids because they are incapable of constraining their sexual urges; what a fucking catastrophe. Bunch of freakin whores. When they can't throw on a pantsuit and go sit behind a desk and pretend to work but still get paid, more selectivity will be employed in mating patterns.
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on Wed, 03/02/2011 - 14:09
huh? Average brain size of blacks IS smaller.
This is what we call a "hate fact."
Oh and while I'm up, STFU you uncle tom racebaiting fuckstick
reply flag as junk (3)
So, basically, this sociopath's whole thesis is "kill the darkies, and anyone I don't like because anyone who disagrees with me is clearly stupid". He wants to sterilize/murder between 50 and 97% of the population, with the explicit goal of exterminating all blacks.
Can anyone really take this guy seriously with all the shit he has posted? All he is doing is presenting a one sided argument to try to stir up sentiment in his favor so he can exterminate a bunch of people. Basically, the guy is a petite Hitler, a fucking monster, waiting for an audience.
So now the mystery as to why this guy so aggressively attacks anyone who denies peak oil, or indeed any of the garbage he spouts, is attacked VICIOUSLY, and without relent. He will say literally ANYTHING, whether slight fudging of the truth, a half truth, outright lie that seems plausible, or a lie completely out of left field. I have never seen such a dark purpose behind a series of posts, and the fact that these posts have been made over the course of more than a year is absolutely CHILLING. This guy is a mass murderer looking for a victim.
And Trav, so you know, I will post this response to every post I see from you from now on. You're fucking dead to me, save for this post.
Angry, repetitive and stupid is no way to go through life...
What, you sad because your high priest's main agenda is to kill blacks?
you make alot of sense here many times over, and I get your post protesting, but maybe just once an article, this ten times is making my scrolling finger go a little numb.
Point taken. I will make a cut down version for future use.
Or you could try this:
I am a daily reader and a very infrequent poster, often after drinks and usually offering nothing terribly the insightful for the the ZH community. I have disagreed with your comments many times (to myself without junks) but in this case I find your unrelenting re-posting of Trav's bullshit in order to discredit him VERY useful and I hope you continue.
All the best.
what little credibility you may have had is being eroded by your own hand, and I am MAKING you do it.
With each passing moment, you make yourself more my servant.
That is a perfect comparison. A bacterial growth curve in 5 ml of LB to human beings on planet Earth. The best comparisons for dynamic open systems over relative time periods are static closed ones. Like I said, there is no such thing as technological improvement and everything functions in simple linear relationships.
Where should we send the PhD in Physics, Laws of Thermodynamics and Women's Studies from Samrasa Online University? You've earned it.
are you fucking stupid? We are on a fucking floating rock in space with no way off. We cannot GROW FOREVER, you effing idiot.
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