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Guest Post: Paul Ryan's Budget Arithmetic Makes No Sense

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Nomi Prins

Paul Ryan's Budget Arithmetic Makes no Sense

Leaving aside for the moment
the petty let's be children and see if we can grind the government to a
halt game going on amongst parties and sub-parties, and the fact that
both parties blessed every single debt cap increase placed before them
in equal measure over the past decade of Bush *2 + Obama * 1/2, I just want to focus on House Budget
Chairman, Paul Ryan's, corporate tax decrease proposal for a second -
because the math is so bizarre.

Looking at 2010 - the Federal government took in about $2.1 trillion worth of tax revenues, 8.9% of those
came from corporate taxes, or about $187 billion. That left individuals
footing 41.5% of the bill through individual income tax and another 40%
through social security and retirement taxes (get it - we do pay into
the system, $840 billion dollars in 2010 to be exact), with the
remainder of tax receipts coming from excise and 'other' sources. (The
percentage of federal tax revenues that corporations paid in 2009 was
6.6% - the lowest on record.)

The notion that slicing the corporate tax rate from 35% to 25% would spur large corporations to either:

a) fire their accounting staffs and do their returns on Turbo Tax 

b) willfully bring all their relevant earnings onshore

c) engage in major hiring sprees or

d) pay rank-and-file workers proportionately more and CEOs proportionately less  than in the past 

is obviously ludicrous, though not to
Ryan or the GOP or apparently, the portion of the Dems that aren't
spitting at them with their calculators. 

Besides that, it's not supported by
fact. To the contrary, since the 1930s, each year in which corporations
paid less than 10% of the overall federal tax receipts, coincided with
recession and unemployment spikes. The last time that the overall
percentage of corporate tax receipts was greater than that of individual
ones was in 1943. In other words, when things are shaky for the overall
economy, corporations bear a proportionately lower share of tax
revenues than individuals. This is not exclusively, but certainly
probably, due to their ability to move stuff around their books and hire
scores of CPA's to help.

During the 1920s, Treasury Secretary,
Andrew Mellon substantially hacked tax rates for companies and the
general public under the premise that a magical 20% tax rate would
discourage the rich and the corporate from seeking off-shore tax havens
and on-shore loopholes. Though Mellon did manage to balance the budget
after World War I, the tax practice led to an over-bloated and
over-leveraged financial economy during the 1920s followed by the Great
Depression. It didn't make charities out of companies. Even though it
was more progressive than what we have today.

Sure, the budget stands a bloated mess.
But the revenue side and mechanism is far more broken than the spending
side, which itself grew due to the cost of wars, weapons and financial
subsidies to the nation's richest people and corporations (especially
the Wall Street ones). Lowering the corporate tax rate would merely
reduce the share of corporate taxes getting to the federal till even

Companies like GE may operate under a
35% tax rate in theory, but in practice that rate could be 50% or 0% and
the result would be the same, not only because of the complexity of the
loopholes in the corporate tax code, but also because there is no
wherewithal in the government, or the Treasury department to do anything
about it. Hell, the Treasury Department assisted GE Capital, GE's
financial, er - hedge fund - arm, when it needed a 'crisis' bailout. The
FDIC stepped in with a $140 billion guarantee for their debt in 2008
and 2009. Not only didn't GE pay any taxes during those years, but for
2010, the company managed to manufacture its largest tax refund - $4.1

How is lowering the corporate tax rate
going to change that exactly? Uh, it's not. What it would do, is create a
wider budget gap and send more politicians scratching their heads over
why. So, it's really just a super-bad and dumb idea.


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Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:06 | 1138994 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

put your check to obama in the mail - prins. all is good, just leave the corruption in place

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:09 | 1139206 AR15AU
AR15AU's picture

35% tax rate is an abomination to a free society, and this statist hooker fails to recognize that.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:25 | 1139245 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

- 1 for this POS article.

I have a better idea.  Let's just cut government spending across the board!  Everything gets cut some.  10% might be a nice place to start.  The military, entitlements, everything.

Though if I were President, I would pick and choose cuts with gleeful abandon...

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:49 | 1139303 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture


How 'bout old "Silent Cal" in early 1920's?  He caused the economy to slurp in, then "markets cleared" and "voila' "

Please come up here and become Gov of the "Bay State".  Please?  You have a better idea.

- Ned

{and OT--do you have any info on Japan and  pachincko?  perhaps you have answered b4?  Just wondering.  Thx }

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:16 | 1139353 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Ned!  Mass. too cold for this Bearing!  But, if I had to and it being Mass., I would probably cut everything 15%!


Re Japan, I am following this as closely as I can because we source 85% or so of our bearings from Korea and Japan.  Today's article about India banning Japanese fish imports of some kind had an interesting Reply that showed that the Fukushima radiation would be carried by the winds to southern Japan and then over S. Korea over the next few days  Ugh.  

I also read somewhere today that it looks like Fukushima will likely turn out to be the world's worst man-made disaster (I presume that excludes wars).  Ugh again.



Disclosure, since I know nothing of Massachussetts' state finances, the above 15% is really meant more as humor than a real proposal.

On the other hand, make me governor of California, and yes I would cut, cut, cut, cut and cut.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 12:11 | 1141181 stephenwv
stephenwv's picture

HELLO???  Where does business tax money come from? Do they print it?

HELLO???   Where does all the free money given to the states by the Federal government come from?

HELLO?  Where does all the state money paid to local and county government come from???

HELLO??   Where does all the money come from to pay the salaries and pensions and healthcare and taxes of ALL Government workers???

HELLO???   Where does all the money come from to pay the bloated prevailing wages of government contractors union workers???

HELLO???   Where does all the money come from that pays the salaries, healthcare, retirement, and taxes of ALL employees that get most of their income as a result of government contracts, grants, and purchases???



Look,  everyone agrees that the consumer drives the economy.  The consumer spending is efficient spending creating real demand for goods and services that create real jobs and real economic growth and prosperity.


The government spending is downsizing the real consumers' ability to grow real demand spending to effect real economic growth and real GDP growth and prosperity.

ALL Government spending comes ONLY from those of us that have REAL jobs.   The Government then redistributes that money as it sees fit with the financial beneficiaries being ONLY those that do not have real jobs.   Is it starting to sink in yet???

This redistribution to create consumers is artificial.   Created by government.  THIS IS DONE BY OUR CAREER POLITICIANS WHO HAVE BEEN CHOOSING THE WINNERS AND LOSERS.    

HELLO???   The winners are receiving the government money.   The losers are paying all the money that, one way or another, the career politicians pay out to hacks and special interests.


As for the vilification of businesses and banks.  They only do and get away with that which the career politicians want/allow/require/let them do.   The Career Politicians are responsible.  Profits go to the top because they do not have to go to the bottom (workers).  The profits do not have to go to the workers because there are too many workers and not enough jobs.   Why?  20 million guest workers and illegals.  10 million legal Americans unemployed.  Go figure.   The career politicians have not really effectively enforced the guest worker and immigration laws.   Their personal and special interests want it that way.   This is not what is best for the American People and America.


BOTTOM LINE:  We are responsible for electing these career politicians.   WE are responsible for not paying attention.   We are responsible for having trusted the career politicians to do what was actually best for the People and the Nation.   WE were asleep.   Shame on us.  They woke us up.   WE WILL NO LONGER BE SILENT.

We are now paying attention.   We will now hold them accountable.   We gave them the first small taste of our bottom up leadership on Nov. 2, 2010.   2012 will take care of the rest of them that just don't get it.

We don't work for them, they work for us.


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:46 | 1139577 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

quit fighting wars and bring the troops and navy home and disband most of it and quit being a slave to raytheon.........

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 06:35 | 1140044 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

"Though if I were President, I would pick and choose cuts with gleeful abandon..."

Would it be like the Republicans' who just voted to extend farm subsidies (put in place by FDR's brain trust of Liberal Progressives after they visited the USSR), but now want to slash other social programs?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 08:53 | 1140289 earnulf
earnulf's picture

DCRB, while I enjoy most of your postings, this reply was not one of them.    The Politicians in DC use fuzzy math all the time, to make thier point that they can't afford to use real math or it exposes too much.   We could cut 10% across the board and it wouldn't be enough to cover the interest on the national debt.

Ryans proposal was DOA and just another shot in the finger pointing over who's fault the shutdown will be.     It wasn't realistic to begin with considering Defense was verbotten.

If we cut 10%, froze spending on the rest and managed to increase income by 10% it would still take three years (10% each year) to reach a "balanced budget"...We are not going to see a 30% increase in revenue in this economy and no one on the hill has the courage to propose sensible cuts that would actually do something.

The new healthcare bill alone created a "federal police" along with reporting standards for metal purchases and who knows what else in it's 3,000-plus pages.    What that has to do with getting healthcare to people who need it, I don;t know.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:00 | 1139342 shargash
shargash's picture

The economy was healthiest and the nation strongest when the top income tax rate was 90%. The country has done nothing but go downhill since.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:22 | 1139384 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:31 | 1139410 Tejano
Tejano's picture

The country has done nothing but go downhill since that abominable tax and that damnable bank were imposed upon the people of this nation.

Long past time to water that tree.


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:51 | 1139588 YouBetYourLife
YouBetYourLife's picture

Are you referring to Jefferson's quote, that "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" ?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 00:15 | 1139742 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

I am busy honing my alchemical skeelz. About to turn these beers into urine. Will that suffice?

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:33 | 1139412 John117
John117's picture

You mean when the US had no other competition left in the world after we bombed Europe and Japan back to the stone age...and then rebuilt them?  Ah the 50s, such a heady expansive time.  

Why don't you tell exactly how many folks came anywhere even near earning 400K (top bracket) in the 1950s? 

Get Real.  It's 2011, pal.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:12 | 1139498 Blano
Blano's picture

If you're not voluntarily paying 90% already, STFU.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:36 | 1139552 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture


That's funny...

I thought this country functioned pretty well and became a world power (with Roosevelt's "Big Stick" navy) in just 140 years with no income tax whatsoever...

What did you learn in history class Shargash?


Wed, 04/06/2011 - 00:10 | 1139729 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture prepared to detroy the productive capacity of the rest of the world to get there? That's how we did it last time in the little tit-for-tat we like to call WWII. At the end nobody else had any industrial capacity. We eliminated the competition.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 00:20 | 1139733 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

dupe post

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:02 | 1139344 ZakuKommander
ZakuKommander's picture

So abominable, in fact, that GE paid nothing! LOL

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:14 | 1139462 Tejano
Tejano's picture

That would be the PERSONAL income tax, Comrade.  Of course GE paid nothing.  I pay more than nothing - anything is too much.  GE pays no corporate tax because their lawyers wrote the tax code. Immelt owns the US presidential palace.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 12:38 | 1141454 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

I tell you about abominations. An ever decreasing tax rate for corporations, and yet they rarely pay any taxes. And their participation in tax's total revenue still is kinda low (considering the rest of the bill is footed by individuals, specially those who can't avoid em - those who have less). You can lower that rate and you'll still get no corps. to pay anything. Even more nowadays with so many people working for free just to be able to put in their CV's that they weren't unemployed. Damn, I'm thinking about starting a business, you know how great returns on cotton were, right? I might start a plantation myself. And I'm only gonna hire Americans who work for free. And considering I'm not in the states, I'm not gonna pay em a plane ticket. Just a place inside a container carrying ship. It's a return to the good old days, you wanna sign up? Polish your CV with exciting experience in the cotton picking industry now!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:44 | 1139439 Skeptical_10016
Skeptical_10016's picture

Thank god there are other people out there who "get it".........government is not an effective "allocator" of capital, "innovation", job creation, "efficiency", "waste reduction", well, much of anything.

Is it any small wonder that Washington DC has seen the fastest home price appreciation & real income growth over the past decade of any STATE in the UNION? (I know DC isn't a state, per se, but that's how the economic table was presented.

Rich liberal doo-gooders.......always blame the adult republicans FOR TRYING TO CLEAR UP THE LIBERALS MESS!

To continually point out the budget under President Blow Job (aka Slick Willy) is a joke......heard of SPURIOUS CORRELATION? WHY NOT GET TO CAUSATION.......the tax rates had very little to do with it as the "surplus" was driven mainly by (1) declining interest rates (2) Slick Willy changing the debt maturity profile (see moving to volatile short term funding) (3) Manipulating the long end of the yield curve (no more long bonds) (4) SPENDING REDUCTIONS (as % of GDP) (5) AGAIN, ADULT REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE LOCKING THE BASTARDS OUT!!!!!!!!!

The Ryan plan is far from perfect, but as Barack said many times, its about COMPROMISE.......So any good negotiator would advise not to begin with the plan you want, but give yourself some negotiating points.......AT LEAST THE GOP HAD THE BALLS TO TAKE THE LEAD

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 23:28 | 1139667 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

I appreciate some of your comments but allow me to stick my two cents in right here. ANY austerity - in an attempt to pay 'our' debts is merely carrying water for the TPTB. They want to get paid back. And squeezing austerity merely will complete the transfer of wealth to the elites/bondholders. Austerity assumes the debt is legitimate. It is not. We should not be borrowing our money from the banks and the Fed. Default is the best option for the people.

Then we can create a people's budget - no wars, no standing armies, no interest, etc.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 08:55 | 1140295 mdwagner
mdwagner's picture

Absolutely right.  People need to stop falling for this partisan nonsense.

If the banks want this, that's all you need to know.  Paul Ryan gets most of his money from banks.  Politics and government is like a tennis match with the banks controlling both players.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:20 | 1139518 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

From the title I was expecting real math instead of this touchy-feely crap. Yeah get rid of loopholes and lower the overall rate...voila more corporate tax receipts. ZH how can you pass on this statist crap? Oh, we paid for our social security, no you paid it under the guise of social security and it was already spent as regular tax receipts...the ponzi continues.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:10 | 1139005 Professor Hindsight
Professor Hindsight's picture

I've had it with these GOP dumbasses. These idiots need to be voted out they only make things worse for the middle and lower class.  

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:27 | 1139050 Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

I'm really amazed at this mindset. We clearly have a jobs problem in this country and the solution is to dis-incentivize people who want to start businesses and create jobs by taxing them to death? Then the "middle and lower" classes wonder why they have no jobs?

The solution is to eliminate this woman's former employers (Goldman Sachs and Bear Stearns) and reward real, productive businesses for creating jobs. A small business owner should be rebated for each permanent position that is created.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:33 | 1139073 Professor Hindsight
Professor Hindsight's picture

We are now creating 200K jobs per month. Just give it a little time and we will be at 5% jobless rate in no time.

Decreasing federal revenue will work cause decrease govt. jobs.

Corporations dont need anymore incentives.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:36 | 1139090 Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

We are doing no such thing. Greater than half of the "200k" was created by the fantasy birth-death computer model. The "improvement" in the labor market is not evident in the labor participation rate (now at two decade lows?) or the hourly wage component.

The only reason the unemployment rate is less than 10% is because they don't count people who stop looking for work!

If you truly cared about the "middle and lower" classes you would demand an accurate representation of the labor statistics in this country. The fact that you have a limited understanding of this reeks of an agenda.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:47 | 1139127 Professor Hindsight
Professor Hindsight's picture

The truth will never be acknowledged. It is merely a confidence game to which the majority abides to. So the truth doesn't matter.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:02 | 1139180 Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

More bogus nonsense. The money to pay government salaries comes from the private sector. Every job that exists in the government is one that can't exist in the private sector.

The "lower and middle" classes are struggling so much partly because of the outrageous tax burden they are under. Property taxes in NJ, for example, can easily hit 10k a year for a dumpy house. Where does that money go? Why, it goes to pay the benefits of someone like Joseph DiVencenzo Jr.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:13 | 1139210 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

the answer is to become your own government.  that means "don't pay your taxes at all, raise a private army with Buffet's front running dough and invade Iowa for no apparent reason."  trust me, everything 'll be just fine then.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:47 | 1139580 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

Dictator is the Highest paying position on the planet!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:15 | 1139216 Professor Hindsight
Professor Hindsight's picture

It's only a matter of time before the federal government bailouts the states.

All the funding will eventually come from the federal reserve not the private sector in order to fund the debt.

Besides deficits don't matter in this dimension.

The private sector will eventually become extinct.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:37 | 1139276 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

it is a "dimension."  at first i thought:  Kafka.  Then, no Dali.  But now I realize "it's the Comedy Channel in Hell."  I can't stop laughing at it--it's killing me.  Literally!  WTF's funny about...ah, forget that thought.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:56 | 1139605 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

by Professor Hindsight

"Besides deficits don't matter in this dimension.

The private sector will eventually become extinct."


How about we take a vote to see if the fed and banksters should become extinct?

On second thought, let's don't take a vote............


Wed, 04/06/2011 - 02:55 | 1139941 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Not happening, state bailouts would spark a massive political uproar and political crisis.  At the point the other states might as well just hand out money.

Too many people despise and are looking forward to the crash of California, Illinois, etc. Much of the rest of the country would flip.


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:25 | 1139525 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

+100 corn hole the silly statist hindsight, 200K jobs a month, what a fool to believe that. prof. hindsight probably thinks that the debt/gdp is less than 100% too (uh add in Fannie, Freddy and unfunded liabilities). You would think that someone on ZH would not buy this crap.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 01:02 | 1139824 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture
by Professor Hindsight
on Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:47


The truth will never be acknowledged. It is merely a confidence game to which the majority abides to. So the truth doesn't matter.


I'm sure glad you posted all your elitest spew tonight you piece of shit bankster troll. 

Giggle bitch, but remember that when you have your night light on and sucking your thumb.

You fuck's have way under estimated the so called sheeple you think you own mfer.

Finish your ponzi, get it started....come on in, the water is warm.  

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:41 | 1139109 Don Smith
Don Smith's picture

Do you have any idea of the length of time it will take to get back to 2006 employmentnumbers at 200K jobs a month? About ten years with the population growth.

Your second sentence is unintelligible, and your third is uninformed. 

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:54 | 1139153 Professor Hindsight
Professor Hindsight's picture

200k is just the start. At one point we were losing 600k+. Who say we cant start adding 600k a month.

In the second sentence I ment to say that by decreasing government revenue, we will lose government jobs which will be counter productive and delay the recovery.

When the labor market improve then we can cut government spending.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:18 | 1139227 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Rah rah rah go Obummer. The fact is labor will not improve as long as there are so many over paid pencil pushing porno watching bureaucrats sucking the life blood out of this nation. Get rid of the majorty of those boils on the hind end of society and we will be better off.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 17:31 | 1142825 calltoaccount
calltoaccount's picture

instead of getting rid of them-- how about requiring them to do their fucking jobs and enforce the laws on the books against outright fraud.  The higher ups at the SEC, Congress and other govt agencies have been sucking Wall St. dick (and likely some Koch as well) for at least the past dozen years.  They  have been corrupted/bribed into incompetence , inaction and or malfeasance by venal vulture corps and banksters to betray their oaths and their country.  As someone so well said above, exhortations to austerity are bs distractions/misdirections from the massive ongoing criminal manipulations and theft that are responsible for the financial crisis and most of the deficits we face. 

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:41 | 1139433 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

"When the labor market improve then we can cut government spending."

You are a complete fucking love the bankster troll.

The so called labor pool is getting very sick and tired of hearing how to eat a shit salad there  "Professor Hindsight"

I would walk softly bankster troll, ever heard the saying, walk softly but carry a big stick?

Small business, ranchers, farmers, construction worker's, drivers etc, are starting to tap there boot's mfer.

Until that day bankster troll, we will keep our gun's free and are BTFD!


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:14 | 1139503 Blano
Blano's picture

Professor Horsesass

There, fixed it for you.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 23:05 | 1139619 Jerome Lester H...
Jerome Lester Horwitz's picture

"In the second sentence I ment to say that by decreasing government revenue, we will lose government jobs which will be counter productive and delay the recovery."

So. using this logic, we heavily tax private businesses and employees, thus ensuring we end up with less of both, so that we can create more government jobs. Brilliant. You may well be the next Nobel Prize winner in Economics!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:49 | 1139137 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Man are you really that gullible ? Or just a government welfare queen? If you think we are creating jobs you're nuts. More than half the "jobs created" were from the birth death model.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:23 | 1139237 Landrew
Landrew's picture

We need 200K jobs a month to stand still! At that pace we will never have less then 16% unemployment!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:56 | 1139327 oldmanofthesee
oldmanofthesee's picture

You read like a perfect fool, Professor. $5,000,000,000,000 in debt, since the dims ran the Congress (2006)!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:50 | 1139132 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

Your mindset is also puzzling:

"The solution is to eliminate this woman's former employers... and reward real, productive businesses"

You don't have the capacity to judge whether or not her former employers or other businesses are real, productive businesses. Only the actions of a multitude of market participants can determine that. It is revealed through the financial losses or gains of the entity in question. Too many losses, and the owners (the shareholders) will be put in a position where they are no longer able to hurt any one with their bad decisions.

"reward real, productive businesses for creating jobs... owner should be rebated"

I guess a reduction in the thefts commited against them is a kind of reward. But, again, you lack the capacity to judge whether hiring employees is good or bad for the economy. With you in charge, there would be without a doubt economic distortions effected solely to take advantage of your proposed "reward". For example, hiring a greater number of less skilled employees, where hiring a small number of skilled employees might in fact be a more productive use of scarce economic resources.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:15 | 1139217 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

Only junks?

No rebuttal???

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:17 | 1139371 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

I want to junk your(ignorant) youth at times. For the record, I have responded to you a few times. I wouldn't junk anyone on this site. Never have never will! What is a JGB?

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:51 | 1139460 takinthehighway
takinthehighway's picture

That's what you get for making sense...

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 00:54 | 1139799 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

"You don't have the capacity to judge whether or not her former employers or other businesses are real, productive businesses. Only the actions of a multitude of market participants can determine that. It is revealed through the financial losses or gains of the entity in question. Too many losses, and the owners (the shareholders) will be put in a position where they are no longer able to hurt any one with their bad decisions."

Please explain, using this argument, how Bank of America, Citibank, General Motors, GE Capital et al remain in business?

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:26 | 1139391 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

Why would anyone think we need small business to create job's? Let's just keep going down the road of letting uncle sam do all the hiring to prop up this ballon.

Small business is in a short squeeze on health ins, fuel, good and services, product's and commodities to the point of not being able to take care of there great employee's anyway.

Shit, no reason to help that poor mfer who is working 100 hrs a week to meet payroll for the whole team they call friend's. 100 here and a 100 employee's there won't be missed.

Keep that shit up and you want to see pissed? Just wait till the so called dumb fuck small business person, rancher's, farmers etc get a gut full of this bubble bullshit, bank bailing, eating shit off the ground to feed your family finally hit's the fan.

That's when the so called bankster/politician that have been saying, oh it's just raining boy's, while the mfer's are pissing down our neck's, will get a very explicit understanding of the rules, "measure's of last resort."

Until that day, keep your gun's free and BTFD.


Wed, 04/06/2011 - 09:02 | 1140315 mdwagner
mdwagner's picture

Stock prices and C-level bonuses are a far bigger disincentive for businesses to create jobs than taxes are.  Profits are up 40% since 2008.  Salaries are level.  Jobs aren't coming back.


Tax credits are ridiculous.  They just add to the 8 billion pages of tax code, which makes the cost of small businesses to comply with it astronomical.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:28 | 1139054 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I guess we should vote for the honorable demoncrats. They are all the same moron.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:34 | 1139077 Professor Hindsight
Professor Hindsight's picture

I agree they are both morons but come-on the GOP is far worse.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:00 | 1139340 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

Better a GOP than a 'Crat. The last time I checked, I didn't have any GOP folks coming to me so they can fund unions, welfare projects, and overpaid bureaucrats.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:55 | 1139603 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

They don't need it. 5% of the GOP party took bailouts worth Trillions, bonused themselves millions and are living high on the hog while you work an extra 5-10 hours a week just to maintain status quo and support them.

The top 400 oligarchs (I'm sure all 400 are GOP members) in this nation are worth the same as the bottom 150 MILLION peasants. Now ask yourself, has the quality of your life improved the last 10 years? I know mine hasn't. Then why are these guys in charge?

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:42 | 1139571 Sheriff Douchen...
Sheriff Douchenik from AZ's picture

Figures this Buffett troll is pro-democrat... yo Professor you got tenure?

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 23:12 | 1139638 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Paul K, that you????

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:54 | 1139600 YouBetYourLife
YouBetYourLife's picture

I guess we should vote for the honorable democrats

"Honorable democrats" seems to be both an oxymoron and a physical impossibility. 

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:48 | 1139143 pslater
pslater's picture

As notedbelow, there are manifest problems with the tax code both on the personal and corporate side.  However, the bottom line is corporations don't pay taxes - they collect them for the govt.  Ask anyone familiar with a 'rate of return' calculation if they include the tax rate as an input.  It would be unthinkable to omit it.  Taxes are a cost of doing and they add to the prices all of us pay for goods and services.

I am not advocating passing on more largesse to corporations that already pay the lowest tax % of GDP in the last 50 years but think about this: is the rest of the world dumber than we are because their average corporate tax rate is 25% and ours is 35%?

Especially think about this in the context of the 'off shoring' and 'globalization' debates.  The highest cost player in ANY market must make changes or perish.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 07:17 | 1140058 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

Ditto.   Competitive corporate tax rates mean less offshoring.   It really is that simple. 

And double ditto, corporations pass their cost of paying taxes on to their customers, the ultimate customer being the consumer.

Beyond that, income taxes of every type are a means of social engineering for the Dead Hand, i.e. Congress, via endless arcane incentives and disincentives.     They should leave well enough alone, i.e. END income taxes because reporting them and enforcing them is an affront to liberty.    Some type of consumption tax with an exemption for the first X thousand dollars per person per year of spending...let's say something above the poverty level, would bring us back to liberty.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 07:23 | 1140067 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

our USA has no long term memory:

all of federal gov was funded by Tariffs alone until the income tax.

with the creation of the Fed and income tax our fed gov has never lived within it's income..but has been growing debt yr after yr.

a solution is in the above simple observation..

anything else is smoke and mirrors.


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:01 | 1139173 TaxEstate
TaxEstate's picture

Yeah, and the dumb-o-crats, if they had their way would make everything better, right? Last I checked, they had a couple of years' worth of free reign with Senate, House and Presidency. How'd that work out for you?

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:54 | 1139314 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

prof-ya' gotta' remove your obvious anal-cranial inversion.  Then, p'raps some intelligent beingz can think about communicating w/your sorry {being]

- Ned


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:47 | 1139446 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

u teach at obama U?

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 23:55 | 1139703 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

"To>>>> Professor Dumbass"

Here is the real picture " Professor Dumbass", the GOP and DEM middle and lower class have had it with the bankster's and troll's like you talking out the side of your mouth.

Tap, tap mfer.......


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:11 | 1139006 onlooker
onlooker's picture

So if GE and their ilk own the government and our media and the money press, what is a mother to do?

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:19 | 1139031 andybev01
andybev01's picture

Eat her young.

(Cool; my CAPTCHA answer was the answer to Life, The Universe and, Everything!)

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:44 | 1139115 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture


Wed, 04/06/2011 - 02:16 | 1139904 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Who in the hell junks "42" some moron found their way to the best econ site on the web and junked "42"  Well all I can say is, so long and thanks for all the fish..

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:59 | 1139337 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

olk: au contraire, mon ami

USG owns GE Capital--> GE --> Immelt is bent over the table.

- Ned

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:27 | 1139395 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

That is completely inaccurate! Dem's are trying to fluch Immelt. He is a tool though.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:12 | 1139008 NorthenSoul
NorthenSoul's picture

Paul Ryan's budget math has never made sense at all.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:41 | 1139104 TemporalFlashback
TemporalFlashback's picture

He couldn't pass the CAPTCHA.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:12 | 1139011 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

Paul Ryan is already captured. He is the intended front runner for supposed fiscal/Tea Party manifestation in coming years. We can stop this in it's tracks by recognizing this early. What is his opinion on Libya/ The Fed?

Why are we even debating cuts without looking to reclaiming the stolen Wall Street wealth through unnecessary POMO premiums?

   Why are Americans being gouged for taxes while GE pays 3.5%?

  They are looking to turn him into the Republican Obama via his youth.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:44 | 1139121 Cdad
Cdad's picture

Well said John,

These gaping wounds...who do they think cannot see them?  This GE example could not be more succinct.  The crony capitalist are out in the open for all to see.  The Fed document dump of last week...was simply breathtaking.

The last rally...that is what we are seeing.  All Ponzi schemes end...when the last of the greater fools is found and marked;  The Bernank.


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:54 | 1139148 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:04 | 1139346 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

"Why are we even debating cuts without looking to reclaiming the stolen Wall Street wealth through unnecessary POMO premiums?" Unfortunately and simply, it's because most Americans are ignorant about POMO and Wall Street, let alone their own finances. Hence, Ryan trying to garner support for this is like trying to attract cats while you're walking with a pitbull.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:17 | 1139016 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>How is lowering the corporate tax rate going to change that exactly?... it's really just a super-bad and dumb idea.

In other words, keeping robberies at the same level, or increasing the amount of robbery, is a super-good and smart idea.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:15 | 1139020 The Axe
The Axe's picture

Oh,,,I think GE is ass raping me....oh that hurts...

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:17 | 1139022 Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

"But the revenue side and mechanism is far more broken than the spending side"

This woman must have absolutely no functioning brain cells!

Oh, wait. I understand now:

"Before becoming a journalist, Nomi worked on Wall Street as a managing director at Goldman Sachs, and running the international analytics group at Bear Stearns in  London."

A woman who got rich off deficit spending by working at a parasitic financial firm now tells us we have a revenue problem.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:20 | 1139034 john39
john39's picture

someday people will wake up and realize that the republicans and democrats ultimately serve the banks and large corporations.  This budget battle is all for show, and the powers behind the scenes have probably already decided how this act of the play ends.  My bet is on chaos and a looming market crash.  the construction of a fascist state is nearly complete, one more step in the plan.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:35 | 1139417 r101958
r101958's picture

Absolutely correct John39. I guess I need to post this again. I wrote it last year in the middle of the election season when I predicted nothing but gridlock would happen after the election:

"Current politics is best represented by a two headed dragon. Politicians pay lip service to opposing ideologies but both the Republican and Democratic parties are part of the same big government dragon body. The body is moving in one direction; bigger and more powerful government. More control over the electorate. Having the two parties serves a greater purpose divides the populace (sheeple?) into two camps that are always at each others throat. I think this tactic is called divide and conquer. Until we wake up and get away from the 'Repubs this....' or 'Dems that....' blame game then we will be slowly boiled...just like a frog...all while the dragon stands by watching and laughing. "

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:21 | 1139035 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:21 | 1139038 Tom G
Tom G's picture

"Sure, the budget stands a bloated mess. But the revenue side and mechanism is far more broken than the spending side..."


What? The spending side is a f***ing nightmare.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:30 | 1139254 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ $1.5 (or so) trillion in spending, if they are not lying about it...

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:26 | 1139049 Audacity17
Audacity17's picture

So cutting the corporate rate to 20% "led to an over-bloated and over-leveraged financial economy during the 1920s followed by the Great Depression".   OH, SO THAT'S WHAT IT WAS! THANK YOU SO MUCH LIBERAL HACK NOMI PRINS!

"It didn't make charities out of companies".

Because we all know the point of being in business is to hand out money and save souls!

Now, quoting from the plan:

"The problem with the corporate income tax is that corporations are not taxpayers – they are tax collectors. Taxes on corporate income are borne by shareholders, employees and customers. Investors pay the cost in diminished returns. Workers pay the cost in lower wages. And consumers pay the cost in higher prices."

I would ignore hacks like this person and actually read the report.



Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:30 | 1139063 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>So cutting the corporate rate to 20% "led to an over-bloated and over-leveraged financial economy during the 1920s followed by the Great Depression"

Post hoc ergo propter hoc


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:33 | 1139072 Audacity17
Audacity17's picture

Yes, it had nothing whatsoever to do with the 10-1 leverage the bucket shops were running!  Not according to Nomi.

Latin for the win!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:25 | 1139383 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

It led to your supossed protectionalist policies, and the greatest economic expansion of modern mankind. That is, After the largest lost of life in modern mankinds history.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:33 | 1139074 Acting Man
Acting Man's picture

Agreed.  I could care less about Ryan's proposal, but this is a rant that should be a blog post response, not a featured article.  Badly argued premise.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 02:18 | 1139908 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Tyler knows his psychology and throws red meat to be torn to pieces..  Call it an outlet, a release..  Whatever, it works for his and our purposes, yes?

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:28 | 1139059 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

Is it any surprise whatever proposal coming from the retards on the right and lame ass' from the left ain't going to 'add' up nor provide real solutions to the grand question of what should government be able to provide for the peasants-- I mean people.

Frankly, I'd rather here children's solutions than these monkey fuckers jaw jack rhetoric all day.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:30 | 1139065 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

And that other 41.5% percent is The GAO ponzi scheme. Individual  taxes? (oBANaNA HAS THE AUDACITY), To come on National television and extend daily invites to the House and Senate. He is not even worthy of being a (Caricature of The Golden Arches!)

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:32 | 1139076 aamrwc
aamrwc's picture

Heres the point of reducing the corporate tax rate.

1. Corporations do not pay taxes, consumers do.

2. By reducing taxes you increase profits and allow the private sector to allocate resources not the government.

3. Profits are corporate savings used for private investment, dividends and wealth creation

4. Private investment drives economic growth and job creation

5. Government spending retards economic growth and job creation.

6. Stronger growth and job creation increases tax revenues.

Just the facts!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:43 | 1139106 pesamystik
pesamystik's picture

Umm, they allocate those resources to offshoring jobs. These corporations do not invest in America anymore. You are truly drinking the kool-aid if you think so. Just look at Immelt getting thrown on Obama's job creation team when that dude offshored half of GE. Tyler even made a post about it awhile back. Apparently you haven't been reading this site. You think that those profits go into the average American's pockets? You have to remember that only a very small percentage of this nation has any significant investment in stocks, most people are on fixed income or living paycheck to paycheck. They do not have enough to put into savings either because they are mindless consumers or because they have been disenfranchised. As far as the mindless consumers go, our government has nurtured that type of behavior at the very top of the food chain with cheap credit, inflated bubbles, and other such crumbs for the masses. 

Corporations do not pay taxes as it is dumbass. The corporate tax rate means jackshit. The corporations already know how to skirt any official tax rate. I'd just like to point out that when there was a much higher corporate tax rate, there was a much stronger middle class. 

In closing, go fuck yourself.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:46 | 1139131 pesamystik
pesamystik's picture

And when I mean when there used to be a much higher tax rate, I am referring to a tax rate that the corporations actually paid. Now they use lobbyists to carve out bills that allow for tons of loopholes and even when they get a god damn rebate from the government (I'm looking at you GE) they still whine like a bunch of welfare queens that the tax rate is too high. 

You are just like the little peasant boy who used to work in the fields telling all the other peasants, "We need our baron, he protects and invests in our thatches with fresh hey. He tells us what good little boys we are. We mustn't question his motives, he invests in our pitchforks so we can work his land." 


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:46 | 1139133 Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

This is the world we live in and a world Americans better learn to accept. This is, for better or worse, a world of Global Capitalism. Countries around the world compete for jobs and capital. America is clearly losing this game. America is not a cost competitive place to do business.

Other countries are more friendly to business and capital. China in particular. Does China gain this competitive advantage by treating workers like shit and poisoning the air? Sure they do. But it doesn't change the end result.

America better wake the fuck up and encourage people to start businesses and create jobs.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:32 | 1139265 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Absolutely right.  It is a global economy now, whether you like it or not.  

Capital and talent tend to go where they are welcome.  Capital is not very welcome here in the USA anymore.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:43 | 1139289 pesamystik
pesamystik's picture

Accept it? Maybe you will pussy. All of you are bootlickers for your masters. You want to be more like China? Those fuckers live in a god damn totalitarian hellhole. You think we're going to let that happen here? No fucking way. Capital will not own us in the end, we will triumph over the croney-capital and restore a more just system. 

Look at this guy Corn with an American flag in his title. He wants to be more like China? HAH. Race to the bottom with these dipshits. Go move to China and work in a factory for a bowl of rice you fucking lapdog. You don't deserve to breathe.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:21 | 1139379 Whats that smell
Whats that smell's picture

He's probably one of those ethonol farmers that gets a double subsidy from Uncle Sam.

Making people use a product that is bad for your engine and takes more energy to make than it produces.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:01 | 1139474 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

"America better wake the fuck up and encourage people to start businesses and create jobs."

You missed the bottom of Corn with the flag's post. He had sarc on as I read it the top I believe. IMHO


Wed, 04/06/2011 - 03:15 | 1139955 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

You want to be more like China? Those fuckers live in a god damn totalitarian hellhole. You think we're going to let that happen here? No fucking way. Capital will not own us in the end, we will triumph over the croney-capital and restore a more just system. 


It could have been a story of China becoming more like the US.  Probably past the pole though...

I dont dig in that story of the US becoming like China. A new wave of colonization is going to happen because the US hosts a big bubble known as the middle class that no longer has its place on the US soil. Poor and rich, been a tango for millenia now. But the middle class, you'll see them move out of the US as they can no longer afford living in the US.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:54 | 1139313 d00daa
d00daa's picture

Put our labor market on equal footing with a mercantilist region of the world that runs a feudal-slave operation while the vast majority of it's population live in absolute filth and squalor, and we'll talk.


I thought Marxists were delusional idealists.  Jesus.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 23:40 | 1139685 Pemaquid
Pemaquid's picture

"Does China gain this competitive advantage by treating workers like shit and poisoning the air?"

Sounds like the place I want to live.  (extreme sarcasm)

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:47 | 1139138 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

So true. Corporations will cut jobs here and sub contract, sweatshops to produce overseas. They dont even own the factories, less mess on their hands.

Someone has to pay for all the debts and welfare programs we need paid. Let big companies do it.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 07:25 | 1140072 nedwardkelly
nedwardkelly's picture

The corporations already know how to skirt any official tax rate

I think that's part of the point... What's the point of a 35% tax rate when small business (companies that can't afford a team of accountants and the 'double irish') are the only ones that pay it?

I own a small business, we pay tax out the wazoo. We can't dodge it, skirt it, any of that. Meanwhile we shit ourselves that the IRS will find something we screwed up and fine us even more (unlike the likes of Timmy Geithner).

If the corporate tax rate was 25% AND vastly simplified, if it was enforceable it would actually be a tax increase for a lot of the mega multi nationals.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:57 | 1139166 Professor Hindsight
Professor Hindsight's picture

Its far more complicated than that. Econ 101 is just a major GOP recruiting tool.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 02:25 | 1139911 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Truth tends to do that doesn't it..  Talk to Harry Reid he could probably outlaw that for you..

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:24 | 1139078 drchris
drchris's picture

The eqn "Bush *2 + Obama * 1/2" claims Republicans are 4x more culpable than Democrats for the current state of the economy.  Divide and conquer WIN.  Little sheepie FAIL.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:36 | 1139083 Don Smith
Don Smith's picture


Thanks for posting this.  I surely wouldn't have seen it otherwise.  I presume that you post it not becuase you agree with the content per se, but as the presentation of another perspective. 

That said, the only observation of hers with which I agree is that 0% or 50% doesn't matter to GE.  It becomes a function of the number of CPA's required to evade tax liability to the greatest extent possible.

What is not discussed by Ms. Prins, however, is the notion that corporations don't pay taxes, they merely collect them.  To the extent a corporation pays taxes, it takes that money from its customers, employees, or shareholders.  If you want the shareholders (i.e., you, in your 401(k)) to shoulder more of the burden, raise the dividend tax.  If you want customers to shoulder the burden, levy a FairTax or sales tax.  If you want the employees to shoulder it, raise the payroll tax. 

A corporate tax in and of itself incentivizes tax evasion at the corporate level, and between Honest Co. and Cheatco., Honest Co. goes out of business because it wasn't willing to aggressively offshore jobs and revenue and therefore, it's relative profits (and therefore share price) are lower.  It cannot compete as effectively as Cheatco. 

The average person doesn't understand this, and I get why they want WalMart, GE, and DuPont to "pay their fair share" but they don't understand the impact to them personally, in the form of offshored jobs and decreased economic activity.  I wish people could get it. But if Nomi Prins doesn't get it, and the Republicans in the Tea Party contingent aren't talking about it, I think we're pretty much screwed.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:41 | 1139102 cossack55
cossack55's picture

In a word, Yes.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:01 | 1139181 Ident 7777 economy
Ident 7777 economy's picture

+1 Sane and rational

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:33 | 1139268 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ another 1

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:59 | 1139473 takinthehighway
takinthehighway's picture

Well put, sir!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:53 | 1139599 essence
essence's picture

Look at all the junks. I've never seen so many. Virtually every post has 'junks'. That's good .. it means people are 'engaged' ( or perhaps it means the air force has gotten it's virtual posters up and running)

Limiting, or even eliminating corporate tax would be acceptable if corporations would stay the fuck out of government. Stop bribing Congress,Presidents,Judges and Regulators and ...fine, have a zero tax rate (just don't pollute the environment).


Corporations employ people and that's good. Sure they attempt to offshore jobs and a host of other unsavory things.... it would never happen if they were not bribing Government. They do that because it's so 'cost effective'. A dollar spent in campaign contributions or however it's euphemised has proven to be an effective method to gain corporate objectives. That is the underlying reason the U.S. has become a fascist nation. Money has literally bought the government.


Our tax code is a joke. It's thicker than the Bible and the reason for that is all the lobbying done (read bribing done) to exclude certain parties from paying a fair share.

Let's get rid of every damn deduction... the reasoning being that we are hopelessly susceptible to letting the highest bidder influence the tax code (ESPECIALLY DEDUCTIONS).


Tax 'Deductions' are the largest travesty in the U.S.


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:38 | 1139087 RocketmanBob
RocketmanBob's picture

I think you're overlooking, or ignoring, that coupled with reducing the corporate tax rates the loopholes we all know allow corporations to pay inordinately low rates will be simultaneously closed.  Unless, of course, there is a double-cross like the Democrats did to Reagan in 1986.

Don't you realize that if all of the wealth of the top 1% of Americans were seized tomorrow, that it would retire less than 1/3 of the national debt?  And, having done that, what would happen to the jobs that some among those wealthy provided via their business enterprises?

The government needs to have a low-rate tax-holiday on offshore earnings, to entice corporations to repatriate those funds.  And, if the corporate rate is low enough businesses will base here instead of other places; especially ones that manufacture for US consumption.

Ryan's plan is not perfect, but it's a reasonable start; moreso than any being put forth by anyone else.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:49 | 1139141 TemporalFlashback
TemporalFlashback's picture

That is only partly true. What about the cost of labor and regulations w/r/t businesses moving back here?

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:36 | 1139092 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

"Sure, the budget stands a bloated mess. But the revenue side and mechanism is far more broken than the spending side, "

One side is just as broke as the other. Why is the fact never addressed that corporations never pay taxes regardless if the tax rates are 35% or 50%. They just pass the cost on to consumers. Even if they closed all the loop holes prices would just be raised to compensate. The only real answer is a flat tax. No loopholes for any entity.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:40 | 1139286 Raynja
Raynja's picture

They should make the tax code 20% of income for everyone with no exemptions or loopholes.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:37 | 1139093 goodrich4bk
goodrich4bk's picture

Those who believe that Ryan is serious about cutting spending should read the Constitution.  All spending bills originate in the House.  Neither the Senate nor the President have any authority to spend.  Ryan's party controls the House.  Therefore, Ryan and his fellow Republicans can stop spending anytime they want.  Like now.  Or tomorrow.

Instead, we get these phoney "budgets" about cutting spending by "x" over ten years.  I'll gladly consider next years cuts Ryan, just as soon as you show me where you are going to cut TODAY.  So far, all I've seen is Acorn, NPR and Planned Parenthood.  What a fricken' joke.  

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:39 | 1139094 Audacity17
Audacity17's picture

If she wants to say that all the credits and exemptions and loopholes etc. should be done away with and replaced with a 20% corporate rate, I'm all about it.  I grow tired of the envy mongering.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:39 | 1139097 FunkyOldGeezer
FunkyOldGeezer's picture

In any country where consumption is  greater than GDP...Repeal income tax. Economy more healthy in 5 years.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:43 | 1139118 cossack55
cossack55's picture

5 years?  More like 5 minutes. Repeal the stinkin' 17th amend. too.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:37 | 1139277 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 55

Get rid of the intrusive (who trusts .gov with their secrets?) Income Tax and IRS and go to a National Sales Tax.  That would also make the Greenies happy as consumption would go down.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:31 | 1139408 Whats that smell
Whats that smell's picture

But the tax would only apply to low priced goods. All upscale jewelery, giant Ford Expaditions etc they would be exempt? Right?

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:15 | 1139502 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

No, I would tax everything.


EDIT: even bearings!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:10 | 1139110 Battleaxe
Battleaxe's picture

Make sure and sign up for the big Fema "ShakeOut" Earthquake drill on 4-28-11. Over 1.6 million people have signed up to participate so far according to their website:

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:42 | 1139113 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Jimmy Carter steered this ship of state into an ice berg and we've been doing nothing but rearranging the deck chairs. It's going down by the bow and nothing is going to stop it from sinking. You should have your life boat made of Gold, Silver, Food, and Ammunition.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:59 | 1139165 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:31 | 1139244 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Sorry. Game was lost under Nixon: took the dollar off gold, devalued the buck causing inflation to rocket over 6% so imposed 3 years of wage and price freezes/controls (which ended in 1974 with 12% inflation in Q3), expanded Vietnam before ending it in disgrace leaving the country in deep debt (the beginnings of our national debt crisis and key cause of "The Nixon Shock"), presided over the first oil shock, a mini-banking crisis and several large corporate bankruptcies, used taxpayer money to improve homes in Key Biscayne and San Clemente, sold government favors to big businesses causing huge scandals (took bribes): Lockheed, ITT, Penn Central, Annaconda Copper, Armo Steel, and Manufacturers Hanover Trust, was involved in other scandals including the wheat scandal, the dairy fund scandal, the carpet manufacturers scandal, the postal bond scandal, several anti-trust scandals, including Warner/Lambert, National Steel/ Granite City Steel, and LIng/Tempco/Vought, just to name a few (many bribed him to evade his own price controls) VP forced to resign due to criminal charges, 40 cabinet members and officials jailed or convicted during Watergate, had first dibs on "I'm not a crook", caught on tape offering to buy silence from Watergate burglars, tampered with CIA, FBI and IRS to crush political enemies.....Capped it off by resigning under fire after a million lies and stalls....That changed the course of the US economically and politically forever. 

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 23:33 | 1139671 essence
essence's picture

Excellent post. "Tricky Dick"  was a crook. Worse ...he took the country (and the world) off the gold standard. That more or less set the stage for this mountain of debt we now find ourselves buried under.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:47 | 1139129 zen0
zen0's picture
Corporate Income Tax Rates Canada

Effective January 1, 2011 the corporate income tax rate falls to 16.5% from 18% of 2010 corporate income tax rate. Yearly tax reductions will see the corporate income tax rate fall to 15% as of January 1, 2012. These corporate income tax reductions, says the Department of Finance Canada, will give Canadian corporations the lowest tax rate on new business investment in the Group of Seven (G7) by 2011 and the lowest statutory tax rate in the G7 by 2012.


I can't seem to make the italics toggle off, so will just mention that the unemployment rate in Canadia is officially 7.8 %. Is there a correlation here? Beats me, but the U.S. looks pretty screwed up from here.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:01 | 1139176 TemporalFlashback
TemporalFlashback's picture

Apologies. I did not mean to junk you.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:16 | 1139366 Howard_Beale
Howard_Beale's picture

You can unjunk by pressing the junk again.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 23:37 | 1139679 TemporalFlashback
TemporalFlashback's picture


Wed, 04/06/2011 - 07:33 | 1140085 nedwardkelly
nedwardkelly's picture

Wow, I didn't realize Canada was so low. I only live about 4 hours from the border, might be time to relocate the business!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:53 | 1139145 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Why is it we see the problems, and the Fat Cats in D.C. don't? (Constituents!) 70B is a pittance, of what needs to be cut. We should be taking 1/2 trillion bites out at a time.       We should quit debasing the dollar. We should start rebuilding and retooling our economy. We should get rid of deadbeats, and murderers that cross our borders with impunity. We should elect people that are qualified to develope a strong international strateqy.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:00 | 1139177 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

>We should start rebuilding and retooling our economy.

Who is "we"?

Also, where is the best part of the economy for spending other people's capital?


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:09 | 1139200 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Lets vote on it!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:54 | 1139147 TaxEstate
TaxEstate's picture

I missed the part where you actually analyze Ryan's arithmetic. He has more balls than most in Congress.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:09 | 1139203 Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture


Pull the cord in Nomi Prins' back, and she squeaks, "Math is hard!"

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:42 | 1139288 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Like Debbie Wasserman-Schultz!  You know, Nancy Pelosi's ex-pet gerbil now picked to run the DNC.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:32 | 1139545 Blano
Blano's picture

Ha good one.

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