Guest Post: Paul Ryan's Budget Arithmetic Makes No Sense

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Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:06 | 1138994 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

put your check to obama in the mail - prins. all is good, just leave the corruption in place

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:09 | 1139206 AR15AU
AR15AU's picture

35% tax rate is an abomination to a free society, and this statist hooker fails to recognize that.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:25 | 1139245 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

- 1 for this POS article.

I have a better idea.  Let's just cut government spending across the board!  Everything gets cut some.  10% might be a nice place to start.  The military, entitlements, everything.

Though if I were President, I would pick and choose cuts with gleeful abandon...

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:49 | 1139303 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture


How 'bout old "Silent Cal" in early 1920's?  He caused the economy to slurp in, then "markets cleared" and "voila' "

Please come up here and become Gov of the "Bay State".  Please?  You have a better idea.

- Ned

{and OT--do you have any info on Japan and  pachincko?  perhaps you have answered b4?  Just wondering.  Thx }

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:16 | 1139353 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Ned!  Mass. too cold for this Bearing!  But, if I had to and it being Mass., I would probably cut everything 15%!


Re Japan, I am following this as closely as I can because we source 85% or so of our bearings from Korea and Japan.  Today's article about India banning Japanese fish imports of some kind had an interesting Reply that showed that the Fukushima radiation would be carried by the winds to southern Japan and then over S. Korea over the next few days  Ugh.  

I also read somewhere today that it looks like Fukushima will likely turn out to be the world's worst man-made disaster (I presume that excludes wars).  Ugh again.



Disclosure, since I know nothing of Massachussetts' state finances, the above 15% is really meant more as humor than a real proposal.

On the other hand, make me governor of California, and yes I would cut, cut, cut, cut and cut.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 12:11 | 1141181 stephenwv
stephenwv's picture

HELLO???  Where does business tax money come from? Do they print it?

HELLO???   Where does all the free money given to the states by the Federal government come from?

HELLO?  Where does all the state money paid to local and county government come from???

HELLO??   Where does all the money come from to pay the salaries and pensions and healthcare and taxes of ALL Government workers???

HELLO???   Where does all the money come from to pay the bloated prevailing wages of government contractors union workers???

HELLO???   Where does all the money come from that pays the salaries, healthcare, retirement, and taxes of ALL employees that get most of their income as a result of government contracts, grants, and purchases???



Look,  everyone agrees that the consumer drives the economy.  The consumer spending is efficient spending creating real demand for goods and services that create real jobs and real economic growth and prosperity.


The government spending is downsizing the real consumers' ability to grow real demand spending to effect real economic growth and real GDP growth and prosperity.

ALL Government spending comes ONLY from those of us that have REAL jobs.   The Government then redistributes that money as it sees fit with the financial beneficiaries being ONLY those that do not have real jobs.   Is it starting to sink in yet???

This redistribution to create consumers is artificial.   Created by government.  THIS IS DONE BY OUR CAREER POLITICIANS WHO HAVE BEEN CHOOSING THE WINNERS AND LOSERS.    

HELLO???   The winners are receiving the government money.   The losers are paying all the money that, one way or another, the career politicians pay out to hacks and special interests.


As for the vilification of businesses and banks.  They only do and get away with that which the career politicians want/allow/require/let them do.   The Career Politicians are responsible.  Profits go to the top because they do not have to go to the bottom (workers).  The profits do not have to go to the workers because there are too many workers and not enough jobs.   Why?  20 million guest workers and illegals.  10 million legal Americans unemployed.  Go figure.   The career politicians have not really effectively enforced the guest worker and immigration laws.   Their personal and special interests want it that way.   This is not what is best for the American People and America.


BOTTOM LINE:  We are responsible for electing these career politicians.   WE are responsible for not paying attention.   We are responsible for having trusted the career politicians to do what was actually best for the People and the Nation.   WE were asleep.   Shame on us.  They woke us up.   WE WILL NO LONGER BE SILENT.

We are now paying attention.   We will now hold them accountable.   We gave them the first small taste of our bottom up leadership on Nov. 2, 2010.   2012 will take care of the rest of them that just don't get it.

We don't work for them, they work for us.


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:46 | 1139577 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

quit fighting wars and bring the troops and navy home and disband most of it and quit being a slave to raytheon.........

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 06:35 | 1140044 Bobbyrib
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"Though if I were President, I would pick and choose cuts with gleeful abandon..."

Would it be like the Republicans' who just voted to extend farm subsidies (put in place by FDR's brain trust of Liberal Progressives after they visited the USSR), but now want to slash other social programs?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 08:53 | 1140289 earnulf
earnulf's picture

DCRB, while I enjoy most of your postings, this reply was not one of them.    The Politicians in DC use fuzzy math all the time, to make thier point that they can't afford to use real math or it exposes too much.   We could cut 10% across the board and it wouldn't be enough to cover the interest on the national debt.

Ryans proposal was DOA and just another shot in the finger pointing over who's fault the shutdown will be.     It wasn't realistic to begin with considering Defense was verbotten.

If we cut 10%, froze spending on the rest and managed to increase income by 10% it would still take three years (10% each year) to reach a "balanced budget"...We are not going to see a 30% increase in revenue in this economy and no one on the hill has the courage to propose sensible cuts that would actually do something.

The new healthcare bill alone created a "federal police" along with reporting standards for metal purchases and who knows what else in it's 3,000-plus pages.    What that has to do with getting healthcare to people who need it, I don;t know.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:00 | 1139342 shargash
shargash's picture

The economy was healthiest and the nation strongest when the top income tax rate was 90%. The country has done nothing but go downhill since.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:22 | 1139384 Dr. Acula
Dr. Acula's picture

Cum hoc ergo propter hoc

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:31 | 1139410 Tejano
Tejano's picture

The country has done nothing but go downhill since that abominable tax and that damnable bank were imposed upon the people of this nation.

Long past time to water that tree.


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:51 | 1139588 YouBetYourLife
YouBetYourLife's picture

Are you referring to Jefferson's quote, that "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" ?

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 00:15 | 1139742 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

I am busy honing my alchemical skeelz. About to turn these beers into urine. Will that suffice?

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:33 | 1139412 John117
John117's picture

You mean when the US had no other competition left in the world after we bombed Europe and Japan back to the stone age...and then rebuilt them?  Ah the 50s, such a heady expansive time.  

Why don't you tell exactly how many folks came anywhere even near earning 400K (top bracket) in the 1950s? 

Get Real.  It's 2011, pal.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:12 | 1139498 Blano
Blano's picture

If you're not voluntarily paying 90% already, STFU.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:36 | 1139552 Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture


That's funny...

I thought this country functioned pretty well and became a world power (with Roosevelt's "Big Stick" navy) in just 140 years with no income tax whatsoever...

What did you learn in history class Shargash?


Wed, 04/06/2011 - 00:10 | 1139729 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture prepared to detroy the productive capacity of the rest of the world to get there? That's how we did it last time in the little tit-for-tat we like to call WWII. At the end nobody else had any industrial capacity. We eliminated the competition.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 00:20 | 1139733 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

dupe post

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:02 | 1139344 ZakuKommander
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So abominable, in fact, that GE paid nothing! LOL

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:14 | 1139462 Tejano
Tejano's picture

That would be the PERSONAL income tax, Comrade.  Of course GE paid nothing.  I pay more than nothing - anything is too much.  GE pays no corporate tax because their lawyers wrote the tax code. Immelt owns the US presidential palace.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 12:38 | 1141454 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

I tell you about abominations. An ever decreasing tax rate for corporations, and yet they rarely pay any taxes. And their participation in tax's total revenue still is kinda low (considering the rest of the bill is footed by individuals, specially those who can't avoid em - those who have less). You can lower that rate and you'll still get no corps. to pay anything. Even more nowadays with so many people working for free just to be able to put in their CV's that they weren't unemployed. Damn, I'm thinking about starting a business, you know how great returns on cotton were, right? I might start a plantation myself. And I'm only gonna hire Americans who work for free. And considering I'm not in the states, I'm not gonna pay em a plane ticket. Just a place inside a container carrying ship. It's a return to the good old days, you wanna sign up? Polish your CV with exciting experience in the cotton picking industry now!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:44 | 1139439 Skeptical_10016
Skeptical_10016's picture

Thank god there are other people out there who "get it".........government is not an effective "allocator" of capital, "innovation", job creation, "efficiency", "waste reduction", well, much of anything.

Is it any small wonder that Washington DC has seen the fastest home price appreciation & real income growth over the past decade of any STATE in the UNION? (I know DC isn't a state, per se, but that's how the economic table was presented.

Rich liberal doo-gooders.......always blame the adult republicans FOR TRYING TO CLEAR UP THE LIBERALS MESS!

To continually point out the budget under President Blow Job (aka Slick Willy) is a joke......heard of SPURIOUS CORRELATION? WHY NOT GET TO CAUSATION.......the tax rates had very little to do with it as the "surplus" was driven mainly by (1) declining interest rates (2) Slick Willy changing the debt maturity profile (see moving to volatile short term funding) (3) Manipulating the long end of the yield curve (no more long bonds) (4) SPENDING REDUCTIONS (as % of GDP) (5) AGAIN, ADULT REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE LOCKING THE BASTARDS OUT!!!!!!!!!

The Ryan plan is far from perfect, but as Barack said many times, its about COMPROMISE.......So any good negotiator would advise not to begin with the plan you want, but give yourself some negotiating points.......AT LEAST THE GOP HAD THE BALLS TO TAKE THE LEAD

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 23:28 | 1139667 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

I appreciate some of your comments but allow me to stick my two cents in right here. ANY austerity - in an attempt to pay 'our' debts is merely carrying water for the TPTB. They want to get paid back. And squeezing austerity merely will complete the transfer of wealth to the elites/bondholders. Austerity assumes the debt is legitimate. It is not. We should not be borrowing our money from the banks and the Fed. Default is the best option for the people.

Then we can create a people's budget - no wars, no standing armies, no interest, etc.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 08:55 | 1140295 mdwagner
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Absolutely right.  People need to stop falling for this partisan nonsense.

If the banks want this, that's all you need to know.  Paul Ryan gets most of his money from banks.  Politics and government is like a tennis match with the banks controlling both players.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:20 | 1139518 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

From the title I was expecting real math instead of this touchy-feely crap. Yeah get rid of loopholes and lower the overall rate...voila more corporate tax receipts. ZH how can you pass on this statist crap? Oh, we paid for our social security, no you paid it under the guise of social security and it was already spent as regular tax receipts...the ponzi continues.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:10 | 1139005 Professor Hindsight
Professor Hindsight's picture

I've had it with these GOP dumbasses. These idiots need to be voted out they only make things worse for the middle and lower class.  

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:27 | 1139050 Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

I'm really amazed at this mindset. We clearly have a jobs problem in this country and the solution is to dis-incentivize people who want to start businesses and create jobs by taxing them to death? Then the "middle and lower" classes wonder why they have no jobs?

The solution is to eliminate this woman's former employers (Goldman Sachs and Bear Stearns) and reward real, productive businesses for creating jobs. A small business owner should be rebated for each permanent position that is created.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:33 | 1139073 Professor Hindsight
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We are now creating 200K jobs per month. Just give it a little time and we will be at 5% jobless rate in no time.

Decreasing federal revenue will work cause decrease govt. jobs.

Corporations dont need anymore incentives.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:36 | 1139090 Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

We are doing no such thing. Greater than half of the "200k" was created by the fantasy birth-death computer model. The "improvement" in the labor market is not evident in the labor participation rate (now at two decade lows?) or the hourly wage component.

The only reason the unemployment rate is less than 10% is because they don't count people who stop looking for work!

If you truly cared about the "middle and lower" classes you would demand an accurate representation of the labor statistics in this country. The fact that you have a limited understanding of this reeks of an agenda.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:47 | 1139127 Professor Hindsight
Professor Hindsight's picture

The truth will never be acknowledged. It is merely a confidence game to which the majority abides to. So the truth doesn't matter.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:02 | 1139180 Corn1945
Corn1945's picture

More bogus nonsense. The money to pay government salaries comes from the private sector. Every job that exists in the government is one that can't exist in the private sector.

The "lower and middle" classes are struggling so much partly because of the outrageous tax burden they are under. Property taxes in NJ, for example, can easily hit 10k a year for a dumpy house. Where does that money go? Why, it goes to pay the benefits of someone like Joseph DiVencenzo Jr.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:13 | 1139210 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

the answer is to become your own government.  that means "don't pay your taxes at all, raise a private army with Buffet's front running dough and invade Iowa for no apparent reason."  trust me, everything 'll be just fine then.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:47 | 1139580 johnnynaps
johnnynaps's picture

Dictator is the Highest paying position on the planet!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:15 | 1139216 Professor Hindsight
Professor Hindsight's picture

It's only a matter of time before the federal government bailouts the states.

All the funding will eventually come from the federal reserve not the private sector in order to fund the debt.

Besides deficits don't matter in this dimension.

The private sector will eventually become extinct.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:37 | 1139276 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

it is a "dimension."  at first i thought:  Kafka.  Then, no Dali.  But now I realize "it's the Comedy Channel in Hell."  I can't stop laughing at it--it's killing me.  Literally!  WTF's funny about...ah, forget that thought.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:56 | 1139605 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

by Professor Hindsight

"Besides deficits don't matter in this dimension.

The private sector will eventually become extinct."


How about we take a vote to see if the fed and banksters should become extinct?

On second thought, let's don't take a vote............


Wed, 04/06/2011 - 02:55 | 1139941 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Not happening, state bailouts would spark a massive political uproar and political crisis.  At the point the other states might as well just hand out money.

Too many people despise and are looking forward to the crash of California, Illinois, etc. Much of the rest of the country would flip.


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:25 | 1139525 MiguelitoRaton
MiguelitoRaton's picture

+100 corn hole the silly statist hindsight, 200K jobs a month, what a fool to believe that. prof. hindsight probably thinks that the debt/gdp is less than 100% too (uh add in Fannie, Freddy and unfunded liabilities). You would think that someone on ZH would not buy this crap.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 01:02 | 1139824 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture
by Professor Hindsight
on Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:47


The truth will never be acknowledged. It is merely a confidence game to which the majority abides to. So the truth doesn't matter.


I'm sure glad you posted all your elitest spew tonight you piece of shit bankster troll. 

Giggle bitch, but remember that when you have your night light on and sucking your thumb.

You fuck's have way under estimated the so called sheeple you think you own mfer.

Finish your ponzi, get it started....come on in, the water is warm.  

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:41 | 1139109 Don Smith
Don Smith's picture

Do you have any idea of the length of time it will take to get back to 2006 employmentnumbers at 200K jobs a month? About ten years with the population growth.

Your second sentence is unintelligible, and your third is uninformed. 

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:54 | 1139153 Professor Hindsight
Professor Hindsight's picture

200k is just the start. At one point we were losing 600k+. Who say we cant start adding 600k a month.

In the second sentence I ment to say that by decreasing government revenue, we will lose government jobs which will be counter productive and delay the recovery.

When the labor market improve then we can cut government spending.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:18 | 1139227 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Rah rah rah go Obummer. The fact is labor will not improve as long as there are so many over paid pencil pushing porno watching bureaucrats sucking the life blood out of this nation. Get rid of the majorty of those boils on the hind end of society and we will be better off.

Wed, 04/06/2011 - 17:31 | 1142825 calltoaccount
calltoaccount's picture

instead of getting rid of them-- how about requiring them to do their fucking jobs and enforce the laws on the books against outright fraud.  The higher ups at the SEC, Congress and other govt agencies have been sucking Wall St. dick (and likely some Koch as well) for at least the past dozen years.  They  have been corrupted/bribed into incompetence , inaction and or malfeasance by venal vulture corps and banksters to betray their oaths and their country.  As someone so well said above, exhortations to austerity are bs distractions/misdirections from the massive ongoing criminal manipulations and theft that are responsible for the financial crisis and most of the deficits we face. 

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 21:41 | 1139433 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

"When the labor market improve then we can cut government spending."

You are a complete fucking love the bankster troll.

The so called labor pool is getting very sick and tired of hearing how to eat a shit salad there  "Professor Hindsight"

I would walk softly bankster troll, ever heard the saying, walk softly but carry a big stick?

Small business, ranchers, farmers, construction worker's, drivers etc, are starting to tap there boot's mfer.

Until that day bankster troll, we will keep our gun's free and are BTFD!


Tue, 04/05/2011 - 22:14 | 1139503 Blano
Blano's picture

Professor Horsesass

There, fixed it for you.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 23:05 | 1139619 Jerome Lester H...
Jerome Lester Horwitz's picture

"In the second sentence I ment to say that by decreasing government revenue, we will lose government jobs which will be counter productive and delay the recovery."

So. using this logic, we heavily tax private businesses and employees, thus ensuring we end up with less of both, so that we can create more government jobs. Brilliant. You may well be the next Nobel Prize winner in Economics!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 19:49 | 1139137 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Man are you really that gullible ? Or just a government welfare queen? If you think we are creating jobs you're nuts. More than half the "jobs created" were from the birth death model.

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:23 | 1139237 Landrew
Landrew's picture

We need 200K jobs a month to stand still! At that pace we will never have less then 16% unemployment!

Tue, 04/05/2011 - 20:56 | 1139327 oldmanofthesee
oldmanofthesee's picture

You read like a perfect fool, Professor. $5,000,000,000,000 in debt, since the dims ran the Congress (2006)!

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