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Guest Post: The Purpose Behind Engineered Economic Collapse

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By Giordano Bruno, of Neithercorp Press

The Purpose Behind Engineered Economic Collapse

“From now on, depressions will be scientifically created.” — Congressman Charles A. Lindbergh Sr. , 1913

Everyone loves money. Even people like myself who abhor the abuse of
money and commerce, who understand the fraudulent nature of the system
we live in, still work hard and save so that we might attain a sense of
stability within that system. Many people see money as a focal point to
their existence. But is it really money that they are after, or is it
something else entirely? In truth, money represents ‘security’ in the
minds of the masses. Money affords us the ability to survive, and the
more of it we have, the safer we all feel. Because we subconsciously
associate the extension of our very life with the variable health of the
economic structure in which we live, we tend to become unwitting
devotees to its continued existence, even if it is corrupt and condemned
to failure. We gullibly deny the system or the currency that supports
it is doomed to the contrary of all evidence because, even though it has
beaten us bloody, we have never known anything else.

In light of this entrenched way of perceiving things, especially in
the U.S., it is difficult enough to convince some people that the
economy is in fact not providing the security they desire, but is
actually destroying their future completely. To explain to them that
this is deliberate, that the economy is designed to self-destruct, that
is another prospect altogether.

Many people hit a proverbial wall on this issue because they simply
cannot fathom that certain groups of men (globalists and central
bankers) view money and economy in completely different terms than they
do. The average American lives within a tiny box when it comes to the
mechanics and motivations of finance. They think that their monetary
desires and drives are exactly the same as a globalist’s. But, what
they don’t realize is that the box they think in was BUILT by
globalists. This is why the actions of big banks and the decisions of
our mostly corporate establishment run government seem so insane in the
face of common sense. We try to rationalize their behavior as “idiocy”,
but the reality is that their goals are highly deliberate and so far
outside what we have been taught to expect that some of us lack a point
of reference. If you cannot see the endgame, you will not understand
the steps taken to reach it until it is too late.

In the past we have covered numerous instances in which global
bankers have admitted to fraud on a massive scale, fraud which is now
crushing our already fragile economy. We have covered the private
Federal Reserve and how it knowingly facilitated the creation of the
housing bubble, as well as how it is now inflating a Treasury bubble
which is soon to implode. We have covered Goldman Sachs and its efforts
to promote and sell toxic derivatives all over the world while at the
same time betting against those derivatives on the open market. We have
covered the manipulation of gold and silver markets by companies like
JP Morgan, which have recently been exposed by whistleblowers and GATA
investigations. And, most importantly, we have executed in-depth
analysis on the growing weakness of the U.S. dollar in preparation for
severe currency devaluation. These revelations raise questions, which
is natural, but they also illicit misconceptions and reckless knee-jerk
reactions, especially when broaching the fact that the illegal
strategies of international banks are part of a greater agenda.

Below, we will examine some of the most common narrow minded
responses to the issue of engineered economic collapse, as well as why
people think the way they do when the “semi-sacred” subject of money is
involved…

1. The economy is too complex to be controlled by just a handful of people…

This response often comes from people who make presumptions on
economics, rather than actually educating themselves on how the system
works. From the outside looking in, the world of finance appears
chaotic; a mixture of mathematical and legal standards swirling in a
void of mass psychology. Many Americans are either frightened off by
the seemingly complicated field of study, or they find it rather boring
and not worth their time. This, however, does not stop them from
assuming that they know how money works.

The problem is that just because a person participates in his economy
daily, it does not mean he has any understanding of how it operates.
Many watch television on a daily basis, but few have any idea how the
picture actually gets onto the screen, or how to fix a television once
it is broken. Sadly, our egocentric culture has led a substantial
portion of the public to imagine that they are experts on EVERYTHING,
and thus, true researchers in the fields of economics and globalism get
reactions like the one above constantly.

At bottom, once all the quasi-technical biz-babble used by mainstream
talking heads is removed from the equation, economics is rather simple.
Supply and Demand will always be at the center of any and every
economy, regardless of the political atmosphere it exists in. These two
fundamental factors can be manipulated to a point, by the creation of
artificial supply, or the conjuring of false demand. This is achieved
in many ways by global bankers, but primarily through domination of the
issuance of currency, the ability to change interest rates at will, as
well as the ability to inject or remove incredible sums of money from
any market.

A perfect example is the suppression of silver prices by JP Morgan:

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/whistleblower-exposes-jp-morgans-silver-manipulation-scheme

Gold and silver represent competing currencies to the fiat dollars
created by the Federal Reserve, and suppressing the value of these
commodities helps to ensure that the public will never see them as a
viable alternative to paper assets. JP Morgan, who along with other
international banks has the ability to throw around massive quantities
of capital wherever they please, suppresses the value of physical silver
by issuing paper securities for silver that doesn’t actually exist
(creating an artificially high supply), and naked short selling silver
markets to drive them lower (creating the false impression of low
demand).

Another good example of economic manipulation is the private Federal
Reserve’s strategy during the 90’s under Alan Greenspan to artificially
lower interest rates, allowing banks to issue credit at historical
levels for over a decade. Linked below is an article from Ron Paul’s
‘Texas Straight Talk’ dated March, 2007, before the housing market even
began its full swan-dive. In it, he discusses the Federal Reserve’s
direct role in the creation of the housing bubble:

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2007/tst031907.htm

Men like Ron Paul, Peter Schiff, Gerald Celente, Jim Rogers, and many
others were able to predict long before hand that the Federal Reserve’s
actions were creating an explosive mortgage and credit bubble, yet, we
are supposed to believe that the Federal Reserve had “no idea” that
their actions would result in a debt implosion?

Catherine Austen Fitts, former Assistant Secretary of Housing and
Commissioner of the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development
under the first Bush Administration stated conversely that the mortgage
bubble was absolutely not an accident, and that she had witnessed
outright and deliberate fraud on the part of the U.S. government and the
Federal Reserve Bank in creating the bubble. The fact that disturbed
her most, however, was her discovery that only a small handful of
international banks were responsible for the perpetuation of toxic
mortgage debt, not just in America, but around the world:

http://solari.com/blog/?p=2058

Goldman Sachs (one of the primary globalist banks involved in the
igniting of the debt crisis) was caught red-handed selling toxic
derivatives to investors and governments all over the planet while at
the same time betting against those derivatives on the market. Goldman
even bet against mortgage securities the bank itself created!

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-04-26/goldman-sachs-bet-against-its-own-deals-senate-s-levin-says.html

This is sort of similar to a car maker selling vehicles without brake
lines, then placing bets that their clients will crash and burn.
Essentially, it is blatant and sociopathic fraud! Goldman’s actions
directly contributed to credit collapses in numerous countries,
including Greece, and here in the U.S.

The idea that global banks can turn the economy on and off like a
light switch may be a stretch, but the vast majority of evidence shows
that they do have the ability to shift the direction of markets to a
point, as well as the ability to spur the growth of bubbles that
eventually lead to recessions, depressions, and beyond. In fact, if one
examines the U.S. economy from the inception of the Federal Reserve in
1913, they would find that the past century has been nothing but a
series of engineered equity bubbles designed to slowly hobble, but not
completely cripple, our financial system and our currency, at least,
until recently. Like a steam locomotive on a collision course with a
bottomless canyon, globalist banks can slow or speed up the pace of our
descent, but the final destination never changes.

Now that we have established that market collapses can be created by a
small handful of bankers and done knowingly, lets move on to the next
most common sheeple-like talking point.

2. Yes, international banks triggered the meltdown, but the
“greed of Capitalism” is truly to blame (i.e. Its all the Republican
Party’s fault)…

First off, if you’re parroting the fiscal debate points of two
dimensional socialist gatekeepers like Michael Moore, then you’re
already hopelessly lost in the mind warping hedge maze of the false
left/right paradigm. You should stay as far away as possible from adult
conversions on economics, especially if you plan on associating the
“greed” of capitalism and corporatism with the Republican Party alone.

News Flash! Barack Obama received far more in corporate campaign
donations (including donations from BP and Exxon) than McCain did. Both
Bush Jr. and Obama increased government spending to record levels
meaning Neo-Conservatives are in no way “conservative” (as a true
Republican is supposed to be). Obama has consistently surrounded
himself with banksters and corporate lobbyists, including various
hobgoblins from the bowels of Goldman Sachs. BOTH major parties are
owned and operated by global banks. This is a cold hard undeniable
truth of our political system. There is no way around it. Learn it,
accept it as reality, and stop trying to blame one side or the other for
problems that both sides created! If you cannot do this, your view of
our cultural state of affairs will always be horribly skewed and your
insights on our social problems will be utterly worthless.

While wannabe socialists desperately clamor to point fingers at the
free market ideology as the cause of all our ills, the fact is that none
of us have ever lived in a truly free market system. Since the
inception of the Federal Reserve in 1913, all markets and even our own
currency have become more and more vulnerable to manipulation by the
banking elite. We have lived our entire lives in a rigged market, not a
free market. To blame the very concept of Capitalism for our current
dire circumstances is not only naïve, it is dangerous. Globalists would
like nothing better than to promote the illusion that “too much
freedom” led us to this disaster, and that severe controls must be put
into place to ensure that it “never happens again”.

3. Global banks would never engineer the collapse of the U.S. economy or the Dollar. It makes them too much money…

This often heard song and dance ties in with the number two comment
above. Again, the assumption is that the globalists only do what they
do out of an “uncontrollable greed for money”. This perpetuates a
couple fallacies. First, it encourages the false belief that the end
concern for the Elite is the accumulation of riches. Central bankers
have the ability to PRINT all the money they want from thin air!
Remember, the Federal Reserve has never been subjected to a full audit,
meaning they could easily create billions if not trillions without any
oversight whatsoever. Greed for money, to them, is surely an absurd
notion. What they do want, more than anything else, is social power.
They want control over every living human being without question. All
other concerns are secondary.

The next fallacy underlying the above argument is the conjecture that
the U.S. economy is somehow indispensable to global banks. This is
simply not so. Where we see the economy as an extension of our culture
and ourselves, the Elites see financial systems as mere tools in the
pursuit of a greater goal: World Government. Imagine you are building a
house. Once your saw has fulfilled its intended role of cutting the
wood, do you cling to it, or do you throw it aside and pick up a hammer?
This is how globalists look at financial systems. They are perfectly
willing to cast off the U.S. economy like a snake shedding skin if it
brings them closer to attaining their ultimate aim.

The same goes for the Dollar. The Greenback may be the premier world
reserve currency now, but that can and likely will change very quickly
over the next couple years. The Dollar is a device that has outlived
its usefulness as far as global bankers are concerned. The IMF has on
several occasions made it clear that they eventually intend for the SDR
(Special Drawing Rights) to replace the Dollar as the world reserve
currency, and they have openly admitted that it will one day be
established as a global currency. IMF press releases make this
development sound far off and away, but SDR accumulations by countries
around the world have risen dramatically in the past year. This along
with other factors we will cover (namely China’s preparations to dump
their U.S. T-bond holdings) show that IMF actions indicate they are
preparing for a collapse of the Dollar now!

4. China would never dump U.S. Treasuries because it would hurt them as much as it hurts us…

The theory that China is somehow fused to the U.S. in a kind of
symbiotic seesaw relationship that can never be broken is so ingrained
among mainstream American financial analysts it simply will not die,
regardless of how much contradictory evidence you show them. It really
is like a mental disease which causes MSM pundits to go into involuntary
Tourettic convulsions every time you mention the words “Treasury bond
dump”. America and China are not conjoined twins, and one can survive
without the other. We have covered the China issue over and over again,
and I will not rehash all that evidence here. To lay it out simply:
China has re-engineered its economy towards consumption and importation
rather than relying on exports. The IMF has talked about this on many
occasions with apparent excitement:

http://www.imf.org/external/np/tr/2010/tr072910c.htm

China has also finalized the ASEAN trading bloc which has combined
export markets at least equal to that of the U.S. Meaning, China
already has another place to send its exports besides America.

Most importantly, China must increase their currency’s value if their
new consumer based system is to survive. Allowing the Yuan to rise
sharply in value will revitalize the buying power of the Chinese
populace making greater consumption possible. Indeed, China MUST dump
their Treasury holdings and pump up the Yuan if they are to hold their
economy together. And, the Federal Reserve has given China every reason
to turn its back on Treasuries through never ending liquidity
injections. This is not to say that a U.S. collapse will not affect
them, it would negatively affect the entire world. However, China has
positioned itself to survive, and perhaps even thrive with their
economic expansions into Africa, and their new financial agreements with
Germany.

Finally, the Chinese have been very forthcoming over the past week
about plans to drop Treasuries. China has dumped over 7.7% of their
U.S. T-Bond holdings since January, including the biggest T-bond dump on
record this month. They have openly admitted to a plan to diversify
away from the Dollar:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-17/china-cuts-long-term-treasury-holdings-by-most-ever-as-u-s-yields-decline.html

I’m always fascinated by those economists who vehemently deny China will
ever turn away from the U.S. Dollar while they are doing so right in
plain view. Are MSM analysts simply crazy? I don’t know, but it would
explain a lot…

5. Sure, bankers took advantage, but it’s really the American people’s fault for getting suckered…

Yes, a sizable portion of the American public can be gut wrenchingly
stupid. It hurts my head and my feelings to see people act so idiotic,
it really does. The problem with this argument though is that when it
is taken too far it becomes an attempt to divert blame away from the
criminals and place it on the victims. If you knowingly leave your
front door unlocked in a bad neighborhood and you find your home
ransacked the next day, then you are partly responsible. But, we cannot
forget that the neighborhood is “bad” in the first place because of the
criminals, not the people who don’t lock their doors.

Just because global banks can sucker the public doesn’t mean they
should, or that they cannot be judged for it. The crime ultimately
rests on those men who made the conscious effort to destroy this
country, and the blame rests with them as well. I see the attempt to
parlay the economic collapse into the lap of the American people very
often lately, especially from bankers who now claim that it’s the
American public’s fault entirely. Why? Because they will not spend
more, they will not take on more debt, they will not take on more risk,
and they will not believe hard enough in the recovery that never was.
Imagine a serial rapist behind a podium admonishing women for carrying
pepper spray. It’s eerily similar…

6. Ok, maybe the banks are causing a collapse, but to say the government is helping them is just crazy conspiracy theory…

Why is it that the Federal Reserve has never been fully audited? Why
is it that when Ron Paul tried to pass HR 1207 Federal Reserve
Transparency Bill, it was muddled in committees and then eventually
derailed? Why is it that banks like Goldman Sachs have been caught, yes
caught, setting the stage for an economic implosion in this country,
yet no government indictments have been formed to criminally prosecute
them? Why are these men still roaming free like locusts to continue
pillaging at will? Are we supposed to feel lucky that we get table
scraps like Bernie Madoff behind bars while the Federal Reserve commits
Ponzi fraud on a scale that dwarfs his?

Our government, both major parties, is owned lock stock and barrel.
This is why there are no satisfactory answers for the questions posed
above. Elements of the U.S. Government including almost every president
since 1912 have not only turned a blind eye to Globalist activities,
they have offered their full support to the bankers.

Nixon removed the Dollar from the gold standard in 1971 giving the
Fed free reign to print as much fiat as they wished without limitations.
In 1980 the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control
Act was passed placing all banks essentially under the rules of the
Federal Reserve. The Glass-Steagall Act which kept investment banks and
depository banks separate was repealed under a Republican majority in
the Senate, and then finalized by Democratic President Bill Clinton in
1999. 30 years ago, banks that held your home mortgage were for the
most part required to keep that mortgage until it was finally paid.
But, a series of government decisions spanning that period and
influenced by global banks allowed for the “securitization” of
mortgages, leading to the creation of “derivatives”, which were then
used by corporate mobsters like Goldman Sachs to destroy our financial
system. Last, but certainly not least, both the Bush and Obama
Administrations pressured Congress into passing highly unpopular bailout
legislation which basically rewarded the same banks that created the
credit crisis with trillions in taxpayer dollars (yes, the bailouts are
now actually in the trillions, not billions). This led to the coining
of the term “too big to fail” (or “too big to jail”). Our Government
has been nothing but complicit in the banker takeover of this country.
To debate otherwise is to invite embarrassment.

I haven’t even scratched the surface of government involvement in the
collapse of our economy. Cases like the Savings and Loan crisis of the
1980’s led to serious prosecutions and jail time for more than 1100
criminal bankers, but this only caused the government to respond by
changing investigation rules to make it even more difficult to catch the
high level fraudsters in the act! Linked below is an interview between
Max Keiser and bank regulator Prof. William K Black who outlines our
government’s complicity in the breakdown of the country it is mandated
to protect:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Bf5Frx1lZk

Elites destroy cultures to make way for new philosophies; their
philosophies. Its not so much “conspiracy theory” as it is a widely
admitted methodology. Corporate globalists believe in global government
on their terms and they barely try to hide it. If someone thinks this
sounds “fantastical” then they haven’t been paying the slightest
attention. When one understands how Elites view economy, and realizes
their primary motivations, the fact that they purposely triggered a
collapse is perfectly logical. Nothing besides all out war inspires
more fear and desperation in a society than a financial upheaval. Such
elements on a mass scale allow changes in our collective psychology that
were never possible before. Most people tend to falter under such an
overwhelming threat and turn towards any authority (or fake authority)
to save them from harm. Some people scoff at this idea, but it is
likely they have never actually been in the wake of a real national
catastrophe before. Men, especially those who know little of
themselves, can change quickly in the face of calamity. The Elites
recognize this, engineer tragedy, then waltz into the aftermath to
merrily lord over the rubble.

Will their plan work? I think not, but I’m an optimist (no, really).
The pursuit of total control and total power seems rather infantile to
me, be it on an impressively psychotic level. Although, if we are made
to forget who the real enemy is, then I think they do have a chance at
success. That is how they have remained successful to this point. Only
now does the average man have such immense knowledge at his fingertips,
the knowledge to bring down a line despots and tyrants that have
reigned for centuries. If only the average man was not so easily
deterred by WMD’s (Weapons of Mass Distraction). The Elites will likely
ignite some wars, tempt us into in-fighting, and fabricate enemies like
Al Qaeda out of the ether. As the slogan goes, “Order Out Of Chaos”.
Whatever happens, our eyes must remain fixed on the root of the problem;
the bankers, and nothing else.

Globalists are not invincible, they are not untouchable, they are not
even all that brilliant. They are human, and they have made many
mistakes. The engineering of an economic meltdown really changes
nothing. Hired thugs, useful idiots, corrupt officials, even
hyperinflation, all tiny obstacles when considering the world we could
have if the Elites were finally made to face the reckoning they deserve.
Americans once took on the greatest empire on Earth. We once took a
feared king to task. Are a bunch of frothing corporate bankers really
so daunting? All that is needed is a principled movement with the will
to see justice done, and I believe we have that already.

You can contact Giordano Bruno at: giordano@neithercorp.us

 

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Tue, 08/17/2010 - 09:52 | 525758 Bill Lumbergh
Bill Lumbergh's picture

If you agree with the premise of the above post then watch Fall of the Republic which may enlighten you even more:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:53 | 526093 MSJChE
MSJChE's picture

Thumbs up for the Alex Jones reference.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:15 | 526166 Tense INDIAN
Tense INDIAN's picture

You should know....ALEX JONES is a controlled opposition

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:59 | 526294 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Which is meaningless at this stage in the game because you should have been preparing yourself and loved ones for the collapse regardless of what information AJ puts in front of you.

Storable food, firearms, barter items, vigilant community.

Little time is left. The 70's survivalists were right - there timing was off because few could foresee the fiat extravaganza that would last for decades after the 1971 default. Theft and corruption concentrating at the top until collapse.

www.survivalblog.com/

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:47 | 526404 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

You should know 98 percent of the people on this planet always have been, always will be and are right now a controlled opposition. That's why everyone is so fucking sick of it. But if that crazy lizard dude from england can figure it out. Anyone can.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4799447112501062338#

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:11 | 526831 DosZap
DosZap's picture

DEAD LINK

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 11:37 | 530505 Waterman Jim
Waterman Jim's picture

++

 

Agreed. Bruno's right, except about the globalists being human.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:04 | 526640 Trundle
Trundle's picture

Yes, about 80% truth, 20% disinfo.

We have to take what we can get.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:08 | 526314 akak
akak's picture

I like to entertain the daydream that this article, or one much like it, is somehow oneday printed on the front page of every newspaper, and on the homepage of every financial and political website, around the world simultaneously.  But I wonder if even in such an event if any significant fraction of the sheeple would awaken even then?

All in all, this was a brilliant and exceptional lucid analysis, and it strikes to the heart of the conspiracy of silence and evil that has been acting as a millstone around the neck of mankind for centuries and millenia.  I fully expect rabid establishment defenders such as JohnnyBravo to jump to the attack as the status-quo paradigm which supports their livelihoods and very self-identities is exposed for the vile perversion that it truly is.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:45 | 526408 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

But I wonder if even in such an event if any significant fraction of the sheeple would awaken even then?

Akak,you mention that some, even here on ZH, would not "awaken" to the obvious reality of what is going down, right in front of all our eyes. . . this harkens back to CognitiveDissonance's series, in that if one does not begin to unravel what has been memorised & reinforced over time as "reality" - if one's brain does not create the neural pathways that connect thoughts that "change minds" - then you could place any truth in front of any people and it will seem as "conspiracy theory". . .

awareness happens over time, as current "understandings" are overlaid with wider perceptions. . . people that rely on mainstream media, or television-story-worlds are going to have a rough time waking up to what is really happening. . . denial is a strong protective devise for the ego, oh yes. . .

and of course, that's how the elite engineer these things. . . repetition, memorisation, reinforcement. . .

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation, under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for All."

yeah, decades later, layers of lies dissolved, I still can't shake that meme. . . ^^

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:11 | 526485 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Thank you for the mention. I guess the check cleared after all. :>)

For those who may be interested, below is the free .PDF download of my 5 part "Welcome to the Insane Asylum" series for those who wish to read what amounts to a 105 page book. Consume in small portions and chew thoroughly. :>)

http://www.scribd.com/doc/33507389/Welcome-to-the-Insane-Asylum-Our-Collective-Psychosis

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:31 | 526532 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Ding! +1

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:14 | 526495 akak
akak's picture

Agreed, CA.  I will admit that although I have been a libertarian since I was in my teens decades ago, and skeptical of government and social/political/financial power in general for many years, I was not as fully conscious or "awakened" to the true level and nature of the sociopathic propaganda and lies that the power elite use to control us even a few short years ago as I am today.  That is primarily if not almost exclusively due to my readings on the internet, and on sites such as this one.

I still frequently will point out to certain friends and relatives, even my elderly mother, examples of how the corporate media use certain words, phrases ("terrorists", "recovery", "patriotic", "defense") to perpetrate and reinforce memes of control, and to limit the terms of debate and of thought itself in the finest Orwellian manner.  But most of these friends and relatives are resistant to challenging their preconceived ideas and modes of thinking, even when the evidence is not only staring them straight in the face, but screamingly so.  It is almost enough to make me believe that the human race does not deserve to exist, as it is so astonishingly insane on a collective level.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:07 | 526647 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I think I was "lucky" to have bailed on amrka in my early 20's - I got my perspective from the DIY-punk-ethic of late 70's UK, then the resistance of Thatcher's reign from living in Glasgow during the 80's - I learned so much about how gov'ts engineer thinking, culture, social roles, etc. - just letting that fester over a few decades helped enormously. . . even being back in the states hasn't worn me down (much, lol). . .

but like you, and others, I feel like an alien in this culture, so few people have done the thinking, and pulled away from a system they think feeds them, when in fact it is poisoning their whole lives, slowly but surely. . . and like you, I continue to point out reality, up against the over-medicated (legal & otherwise) entrained mindsets. . . I agree, it IS "insanity on a collective level". . .working as intended, sigh.

(naughty CD, you know I don't do bank accounts - no checks here - mebbe some precious? *wink*)

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:09 | 526654 thesapein
thesapein's picture

+1

That sounds like a lot of us, probably. We understood many of the dangers of big government and why liberty was important, but we didn't quite see the manifestations already present around us to quite this degree that we're now realizing wasn't just a danger.

Funny how silly I feel when borrowing the "awakening" analogy, yet that's really how it feels.

It's humbling and empowering at the same time, no?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:43 | 526758 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

It's humbling and empowering at the same time, no?

Yes, very much so. Sort of like being embarrassed and proud about the same event at the same time. I've actually been thinking about this subject for a few weeks now, wondering what other roadblocks are erected to block a further awakening.

It takes a flexible mind, at least most flexible than our standard mainstream media conditioning affords us, to break from our indoctrination and begin to change our point of view and perspective. A curious mix of ego and empathy, of self consciousness and yet bravado is required. Rigid thinking doesn't mix very well with higher enlightenment.

Very few walk into the path of pain, especially when the consensus reality offers us all what appears to be very attractive alternatives to the painful highway of higher awareness.

The average person on ZH is not your average (Yogi) bear.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:36 | 526897 akak
akak's picture

What I find particularly fascinating about the whole phenomenon of "awakening" and the willingness to face and accept the truth is that, from all that I have seen, the ability or desire to do so has little or nothing to do with "intelligence" as typically defined.  I know of many supposedly highly intelligent professional and non-professional people both who are steadfast in their willing ignorance and refusal to step outside the bounds of thought set for them by the power elite --- and I have observed this phenomenon long before the current finanicial upheaval began.  What is it that makes otherwise intelligent individuals so outright blind and dumb when it comes to the crimes and corruption of those who control us?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 18:02 | 526972 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

In a word, dependence. Or more accurately co-dependence. 

The more assimilated into a system a person becomes, measured by their level of proficiency or acceptance or ascension within the system, the more dependent upon that very system they become for their livelihood and/or social/political/emotional sustenance. Thus the more willing they become to make "allowances" for parts that are unfair or misused or abusive.

Generally speaking, the more "successful" a person becomes within a system (any social, political and economic system) the harder they will fight to remain within that system and the more likely they are to not only remain in denial of the severe problems of the system but of the level to which they will actually fight to remain within the system.

We will always cling to and fight to remain within or in contact and joined with anything we hold as valuable, even if that value is merely an illusion and the entity/system is actually abusing the person. I wrote about this in my "Welcome to the Insane Asylum" series. We are all captured to some extent or other by our abusive parent/spouse/state.

Ever wonder why an abused spouse stays with their abuser, even when there's no children or other strong ties that bind? Well for many of the same reasons people stay within an abusive economic/social/politcal system. There is an co-dependence between the abused and the abuser that goes far beyond the surface entanglements. Study drug/alcohol/sex addiction as well as abusive relationships and you will gain a better understanding of the dynamic in play.

Addiction and abuse occur in greater numbers (percentage) and to a greater degree (severity) in more highly educated individuals than in the lower educated, despite what the mainstream media and the government tells you. They can't tell the population the truth because abuse and addiction are considered signs of failure. If the higher educated and more well off are "failing" at higher rates, what does that say about the public myth of the American dream and the subtle control mechanisms the dream enforces?

Co-dependence in all it's ugly glory applies just as equally to states and nations as it does to family and friends.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 18:19 | 527135 puckles
puckles's picture

The educated elites know what buttons to push when they need to cover up substance abuse, or other untidy facts--say, for clearance purposes--which might hinder an otherwise stellar career.  The masses have no clue, and seem to think that a couple of busts (e.g., bouncer calls cops due to disturbance, minor possession charges, failure to pay a judgment, dismissed charges during college) are no big deal.  Well, they are, if you're no big deal...

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 00:44 | 527621 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

Quote please:

Addiction and abuse occur in greater numbers (percentage) and to a greater degree (severity) in more highly educated individuals than in the lower educated, despite what the mainstream media and the government tells you.

Can you point me towards a study that concluded this?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:27 | 526872 Huxleys Greatniece
Huxleys Greatniece's picture

 It is almost enough to make me believe that the human race does not deserve to exist, as it is so astonishingly insane on a collective level.

Who is to say humanity isn't a virus, and that the ultimate way to save the planet is to hasten our extinction?   there's a link for you:

http://www.vhemt.org/

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 20:04 | 527303 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Know better than to trust any and all government economic numbers, because they just don't "add up". The consumer has retrenched: what is left?

Government spending! ...$1.5 Trillion (+- a few $Billion) is  the US deficit currently, debt that cannot be repaid!

Take the deficit spending out of the economy, roughly 13% and what do you have?

A DEPRESSION!

Believe the government numbers? ... (bad idea)! ...

The economy is growing at 3%, of which 13% is government spending above tax receipts. Take out government deficit spending... an economy declining at a 10% rate!  Even in a Keynsian world, a 10% decline IS a depression.

Governments and individuals forego future purchasing power when they borrow today.

Borrowing can be good if the balance sheet is clean and the system is growing, ...what is happening? ... borrowing is used to obscure and hide the fact that there is no growth!

Hide reality!... governments have deficit spent for years and years. Remember current borrowing reduces future ability to spend.  Which is exactly now and exactly why future living standards will crash..

Capital is "leaking" from the U.S. financial system as foreigners are beginning to turn "thumbs down". (just look at China's holdings).  Where is the shut off point to the U.S's ability to borrow more?

The standard of living will go down because it IS ALREADY lower than it appears.

Remember the "extra" $1.5 Trillion of government deficit never even takes into account "shrinkage" of Dollar purchasing power ...(nor the certainty of an eventual Dollar crash).

Imagine the government having to cut back on spending say $2 Trillion... (a drop in GDP of 18% or so)?

Imagine this happening at a time when the value of the Dollar drops 20-30% or more!

This is it ... where it's going!  Do the napkin math, it will equate to a living standard down some 40%!

Can you imagine how bad this will suck? Don't even even try adding in the social unrest ...people pissed off from consumer goods shooting up 50-100% ...won't be receiving any food stamps, public housing and welfare in general!

No matter who you are and how well you have prepared, your life will change big time in the near future. This is no longer opinion, it is fact because the government has ALREADY "spent the money"!

{the debt numbers used are a farce, total U.S. government debt is not $13 Trillion, it is more like $100 TRILLION when you add in all promises and guarantees}

 Maybe a 40% drop in living standards doesn't really suck that bad when you consider that it will be a far worse decline before all is said and done!

 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 20:29 | 527332 akak
akak's picture

DP, I always look forward to your insightful and lucid comments, as depressing as they may be (and as is the truth, for the most part today).  Thank you.

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 18:16 | 531553 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

"HEY, could you keep it down? American Idol's on!"

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 09:54 | 525761 Goldinsacks
Goldinsacks's picture

It wasn't the republicans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:50 | 525918 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

defnding one side is the same as blaming one. It defies the facts and history

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:28 | 526527 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Precisely. Both sides are part of the same oligarchy & conspiracy

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:09 | 526820 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

BOTH major parties are owned and operated by global banks. This is a cold hard undeniable truth of our political system. There is no way around it. Learn it, accept it as reality, and stop trying to blame one side or the other for problems that both sides created! If you cannot do this, your view of our cultural state of affairs will always be horribly skewed and your insights on our social problems will be utterly worthless.

Operative words being: ...your insights on our social problems will be utterly worthless.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 09:55 | 525763 russki standart
russki standart's picture

Giordano Bruno, you will be burned at the stake  again except this time it will be the globalists who will provide the fuel. Great article, stay safe.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:20 | 525820 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

It sucks worse to try to live or go to 'Heaven' with those that do the burning. There is no safety thinking in numbers; it's the rare ones that survive the hard rain that's falling.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:15 | 526332 JR
JR's picture


Our Ruling Class uses the control mechanisms of socialism to keep the middle class at bay; it is a political philosophy that embraces humanism and proclaims that man alone is in control of his future.  They use privilege and wealth for themselves and socialism and poverty for the masses.

Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn:

“The humanistic way of thinking, which had proclaimed itself our guide, did not admit the existent of evil in man, nor did it see any task higher than the attainment of happiness on earth…

“All the celebrated technological achievements of progress, including the conquest of outer space, do not redeem the twentieth century’s moral poverty, which no one could have imagined even as recently as the nineteenth century.”

“The forces of Evil have begun their decisive offensive.  You can feel their pressure, yet your screens and publications are full of prescribed smiles and raised glasses.  What is the joy about?”

 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:34 | 526539 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture
To the People of the State of New York:

The interest of the man must be connected with the constitutional rights of the place. It may be a reflection on human nature, that such devices should be necessary to control the abuses of government. But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself.

 

www.constitution.org/fed/federa51.htm

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 09:56 | 525767 stpioc
stpioc's picture

Had a couple too many, last night? (or probably more likely, last decade..)

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 09:57 | 525769 Chemba
Chemba's picture

give me a break

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:17 | 526342 Roger O. Thornhill
Roger O. Thornhill's picture

What is most interesting - as I know some very wealthy people - is that money is only of interest to the lower caste pawns. Anyone below 200 million net assets (give or take) are not in the big game.

What these people ("globalists" for lack of another term) want is power. The reason we are stupid is that we think that these people are greedy for money (that is what we may want - so we think by extension that is what they are after). Money is not their interest, money is only a byproduct of the ultimate gift that keeps on giving. Power and control.

That is why the question, "how many yachts can you waterski behind?" is a false question. Only the pawns care about that. It's why we can't see what is going on.

Power is having Senators and Presidents afraid of you. Power is effecting the lives of millions.

Understand that and you understand globalism (having real control globally), that is the ultimate prize.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:39 | 526392 onelight
onelight's picture

You make some very good observations. Vantage point matters.

http://rushkoff.com/books/life-incorporated/

Although simple, this book begins to explain to regular folks how economic development over the last 400 years has been managed, by whom and for what purposes---and some thoughts of local communitarian approaches.

I suspect there will be a lot more of this, although little that is robust has been written so far in the public sphere, that I have seen anyway, connecting critiques with actual proposals for re-making everyday life on the local level.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:48 | 526420 rlouis
rlouis's picture

"Power is ze ultimate aphrodisiac" Henry K.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:04 | 526473 onelight
onelight's picture

At least for the outwardly less attractive, anyway..

And it seems to offer a shortcut to the struggle involved in finding a more genuine sense of fulfillment in life, in loving life for what it is.

Chasing the shortcut only flirts with disaster, often bringing it on.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:09 | 526651 Trundle
Trundle's picture

Except if they're less than ten years old.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:10 | 526656 Trundle
Trundle's picture

With reference to H.K.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:29 | 526514 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Power is having Senators and Presidents afraid of you. Power is effecting the lives of millions.

Understand that and you understand globalism (having real control globally), that is the ultimate prize.

good perspective Roger. . . power allows such mega-wealth gatherers as Bill Gates to set up "foundations" to further concentrate their power:

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation today announced 78 grants of US$100,000 each in the latest round of Grand Challenges Explorations. Grants include the development of a low-cost cell phone microscope to diagnose malaria, study of the strategic placement of insect-eating plants to reduce insect-borne diseases, and investigation of nanoparticles to release vaccines when they come in contact with human sweat. The grants support research across 18 countries and six continents.

• Sweat-triggered vaccine delivery: Carlos Alberto Guzman of the Helmholtz Centre for Infection Research in Germany with Claus-Michael Lehr and Steffi Hansen of the Helmholtz-Institute for Pharmaceutical Research will develop nanoparticles that penetrate the skin through hair follicles and burst upon contact with human sweat to release vaccines.

http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/stories/2010/05/10/daily9.html

 

so, a mega wealthy member of the Bilderberg Group can use his billions  as donation/ /tax dodge, to further his / their agenda - stealth vaccines without consent - and this is just what is admitted to. . . if you begin to connect the dots back to chemtrails in all Nato countries, then you realise the extent of what is being done, the stealth poisoning of whole human populations. . . and yeah, "tin foil hat" to most. . . but consider this: some of us have known most of what the OP is saying for years now, and the further you dig, and make the connections, the clearer the agenda becomes. . . and I promise you, it WILL change your perspective on reality.
Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:13 | 526670 merehuman
merehuman's picture

changed my perspective. I was naive and trusted the gov., doctors and bankers. Last year and a half this dummy learned a lot. Without the computer and internet i would still be in the dark.

 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:00 | 526806 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

merehuman, my views have taken about the same trajectories as yours.  I feel the same way about .gov, politicians, banksters and even the doctors.  Lawyers?  And I believe as well I would not have learned all this without the Internet.  

ZeroHedge has helped a lot.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 03:04 | 527696 Mark_BC
Mark_BC's picture

Yes, because the power elite is SO STEALTHY, SO EFFICIENT AND SO PERVERSE that they can subvert a large portion of our population to become part of this evil conspiracy to infect all us other unlucky minions of society with poison, and the elite can do this leaving NO EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER! Yes, even all doctors can be turned and now actively hurt their patients in order to further the agenda of the NEW WORLD ORDER.

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 11:56 | 530566 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

Can you be certain of the efficacy or necessity of vaccines? I am not convinced, but I'll admit I haven't researched the topic to my own satisfaction.

Apart from that, should vaccines be mandatory for everyone, including those who prefer to live naturally and use what the earth has provided to stay healthy? Should they be allowed to vaccinate us without our consent, and even without our knowledge? Would they be researching and promoting this technology in the public sphere if they had no intention of developing it for use? These are just a few questions I would ask someone who dismisses all of this at first glance. You have to ask yourself if your reaction to this material is based on your own logical reasoning, or if that conclusion has been borrowed and recycled from someone else's thought process.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 20:25 | 527326 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

for (huge) profit allopathic medicine combined, and pre-scripted pharma drugs, with corporate "fud" filled with chemicals, pollution in air and chemically treated water, and now corporate / gov't mandated "health care" insurance. . .

seriously, what part of "factory farmed" humanity is not covered?

(love your garden & friend stories merehuman - all the best to you, and to DoChen!)

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 21:11 | 527379 puckles
puckles's picture


---Nanotech is the huge tech play these days, but very little is being said about it aside from the blogs.  It simply does not enter regular media, including the Internet, unless you really look hard for it.  The bit about nanoparticles entering hair follicles has already been done, and has been commercialized; my hair salon was one of the first to do it.  I've used it (but will not again, as I found it too expensive).  It's technically quite easy now to add a number of items with nanoparticles, which was how the hair smoother product evolved.  I'm certain that adding a vaccine is idiotically simple; equally easy might be sterilization products, or items far worse, as we now have the technical ability to use, isolate, and target genes, all of which have the technical ability to be deployed in nano media.  Although hair on the scalp is dead, it is in close contact with the scalp, which sweats.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 03:08 | 527693 Mark_BC
Mark_BC's picture

"if you begin to connect the dots back to chemtrails in all Nato countries, then you realise the extent of what is being done, the stealth poisoning of whole human populations"

You see, this is one answer to CD's and Akak's musings above about why otherwise intelligent people are slow to buy in to the evil goings-on behind the scenes at higher levels ..... because they hear this kind of ridiculous tripe coming from sites like this, which do in fact have many good things to say, but unfortunately whose credibility gets shot to zero when people start spouting off about how planes don't actually produce water vapour.

Now, I've been opening my mind up lately and learning a lot about the world but even now I have to chuckle at some of the ridiculous conspiracy theories going around. So what, pray tell, are governments spraying on us in order to control our minds? Do you hoestly believe that medicine has progressed to the point that they have engineered nanoparticles that can make us more easily controlled by governments? Are Americans all sick because the government is spraying nanoparticles on them, or do you think it has more to do with all the Happy Meals they voluntarily eat? The reason that more educated people are slower to latch on to these ideas is because they understand that combustion produces water vapour, and that when this vapour is put into a cold atmosphere near saturation humidity, that vapour condenses out as droplets (like your breath or exhaust from your car) and forms things called CONtrails, not CHEMtrails.

My brother in law takes this stuff to the ridiculous extreme and actually believes that there is no such thing as contrails, they are all chemtrails of poison being sprayed on us by the gobernment. Get real, take a chemistry course.

It's like that movie Zeitgeist --- many important things were revealed in it, but some of the charges were just so absurd that it loses the majority of its audience who then dismiss the whole thing as a ridiculous conspiracy theory.

 

*** I could not turn the quotes off for my text

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:28 | 528173 aerojet
aerojet's picture

I don't think it will change my perspective in that I think you are a conspiracist nutjob!

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:34 | 526886 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Roger,

Exactly...............

After a certain wealth level is reached...........and one can buy,own, anything, as many as they want, there is but ONE thing left.

POWER...........

Money,while important, becomes a weapon against most who have tremendous amounts.

Very few people can handle it....very few.

It wrecks their lives.Just look at Hollyweird..........and the POP music culture...........or  Super Star athletes.

BOREDOM sets in, and destructive behaviour ensues, unless...your one of the few who have the intelectual capacity, and connections, to gain power....

Every one, would love to be THE man, the Woman...call ALL the shots..........

Since ancient times, it's been this way...........always has,always will be till the end.

Like Solomon,in his time, silver was as common as stones in the street..the most wise man to ever live..yet, he was defeated by himself, and Vanity.

Unlike most, he finally came to that knowledge....but, then HE was Solomon.

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 12:04 | 530587 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

"Since ancient times, it's been this way...........always has,always will be till the end."

 

It doesn't have to be this way. We can choose something different. Evolution is our escape hatch. We can change the way we think of money and power. We can stop desiring it. We can stop telling ourselves it is the goal to attain. We can shift our thoughts to appreciate those with the least money and power. Perhaps the homeless and destitute should be the exalted among us. We often blame them for their position and place, yet we assume our current leaders are well deserving of where they are. Perhaps they should be our policy makers. They certainly couldn't do a worse job than the elitists we deem our mental superiors, and therefore rightful leaders. They're all a bunch of rich bastards who have no idea what its like to be an average human.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 09:59 | 525776 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

The purpose behind the economic collapse: so that the Rothschild family clean-up across the board.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:24 | 525829 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

The culture that worships money deserves to prostrate itself at the foot of the Kings of the species AKA the Big Bank. The FFs knew this but they are so old now.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:55 | 525925 sbenard
sbenard's picture

This is more true than you can possible imagine! I know a member of the Rothschild family, a member of their inner sanctum. He has told me from his own mouth that many of the rumors are true. And you wouldn't believe what their true religion is. They only practice Judaism superficially. They have another religion they practice in secret, and its NOT Judaism!

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:09 | 525964 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

They are Satan worshippers. This has been known for decades.

For those that do not believe, then just think of them as Satan or at least the dark side.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:36 | 526543 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Ordo Ab Chao

They put it right in front of us all the time...

http://vigilantcitizen.com/?p=3979

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:45 | 526065 tired1
tired1's picture

Would you care to expand?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:55 | 526098 MSJChE
MSJChE's picture

Don't make these comments without offering some sort of proof.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:57 | 526289 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

I think his proof is a supposed personal conversation with an insider. You have to decide for yourself if he is lying, embelishing, or telling the truth in this case, as most people don't record their personal conversations, FWIW.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:35 | 526533 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Thanks. Just my opinion but responding to trolls like "tired" and MSchewmysack" is pointless.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:22 | 526201 Rasna
Rasna's picture

OK...

Nice Tease!  I'll Bite... What is it ? Zoroastrianism?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:10 | 526660 Trundle
Trundle's picture

Rumor has it that they have an empty seat for Lucifer at their family get togethers.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 23:46 | 527526 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

@sbernard

I published a book on the connections between Particle Physics, Relativity, Consciousness, Intent and Alternative Therapies...you might be surprised what I could "possibly imagine" (written in a polite manner).

Okay, let's see...Question first: Why would you orchestrate or assist-in collapsing a system in which you are already on top of the pyramid...what could possibly be more attractive or beneficial so as to deliberately blow-up the pyramid on which you sit???....I'm thinking, not gain, but loss...maybe it's risk based!

This is no longer the mindset of "competition is [being] a sin", this is in fact something completely different....something fear based.

Also, the primary targets on an orchestrated collapse would be the lower and upper 'middle class'. The poor are no competition and are actually useful (slaves without capacity to question), the ultra-rich are too few for concern, but the middle classes represent an expansive, ecological and resource threat...they consume and pollute exponentially. they need to be relegated to the class of the mindless poor.

The biggest winner in a complete economic collapse would be the environment...so...I'm guessing if they worship anything, it would be the ecology...possibly a marriage between the ecology and science.

...perhaps they wish to become a Global Monarchy...perhaps even more grand-a-plan than that...modern day Pharohs. A few post collapse generations later and today's technology may seem God-Like.

Of course this would effectively be a permenant solution.

Wonder if that's even close.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 03:17 | 527701 Mark_BC
Mark_BC's picture

"I'm guessing if they worship anything, it would be the ecology...possibly a marriage between the ecology and science."

This is a classic. So now it's ecology scientists who are orchestrating an economic collapse. This thread started off so well but now I'm going to bed, this is a waste of time.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 04:29 | 527721 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Okay Einstein, let me spell it out for you in child-like terms:

  1. You do not have to be a scientist to understand the power of the application of science. Science is a tool, no different that mathematics; it is a means to understanding our environment.
  2. Worship does not necessarily mean to get on your knees and pray; it can simply mean to hold in high regard and to place something above all other things (even money and power). Words like reverence and respect can also be used in the same manner.
  3. The most powerful thing on Earth is the Ecology itself, but it is not indestructible.
  4. The ecology is our Lifeboat; destroy it and you're dead also; money, power, fame etc become meaningless.
  5. Modern society has an uncontrollable propensity to consume and destroy, even though self-destruction and mortality issues surround the condition itself.
  6. Human beings have lost the ability to harmoniously interact with anything; our minds have evolved into machines of extreme.
  7. Human beings seldom change because they want to, or they are asked to, or even when ordered to; human being mostly change because they fear an imminent threat (distant threats are shrugged-off...like Peak Oil, Peak everything).

So when these 7 simple to understand items get mixed in with our current world, it should become plain as the nose on your face that somebody needs to take action...perhaps they, feel it should be themselves. Perhaps they see that in holding reverence to science (including logic) and the ecology (all of nature), is the sole direction of survival in a world gone clinically insane.

The adoption of this mindset as a religion/faith, becomes much more powerful that that of immediate gratifications; Life being vastly more important than Maseratis and plasmas.

If I were in their shoes, I suspect I would do exactly the same thing; wipe out modern civilization, with extreme prejudice.

My personal position: I welcome a collapse, regardless of the damage and my own sacrifice, as the ecology desperately needs recovery. I fully realise, and it is also a logical conclusion, that it needs to occur and that it is only a bad experience solely for the human species itself (which is expendible by the way).

Now if you, or anyone else reading this post, can't grasp these fundumental issues as well as the position I am pointing-out, then please expect the following psychological/emotion experiences when the final collapse does occur;

  1. Denial
  2. Anger
  3. Bargaining
  4. Acceptance

If you make-it to item number 4 that-is!

Ask not what your ecology can do for you, but what you can do for your ecology.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:34 | 528191 Mark_BC
Mark_BC's picture

OK, I see your point but I don't think they have any altruistic motivations so I don't agree that this is why a collapse its coming.

I agree that the most powerful thing on earth is ecology. Today's financial / economic "experts" have it backwards. They think economies are the fundamental dynamic forces, but not at all, economies work completely within the ecology that supports them. This is not an opinion, it is a fact.

And I don't think you should be calling this mindset a religion or faith, because it's not, it's an acceptance of the laws of thermodynamics and ecological productivity which simply cannot be violateed no matter what economic chart anyone throws in your face.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 21:52 | 529466 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

Thanks for responding Mark_BC. Okay, so we really do see eye-to-eye upon a reliance structure and what-supports-what in this world.

It seems the only point we disagree upon, is how can ecology, science, money (whatever) possibly be viewed as more than what it is. What we are now talking about is subjective opinion (belief/faith...and is the only thing preventing a run on the dollar or hyperinflation perhaps), in that one group of people may well worship, say, a Golden Calf, and yet another group may worship, say, two pieces of stone with a handful of laws written upon each one. That being said, while you (and I, believe it or not) may well look upon science and the ecology from a more sciencey/logical viewpoint, and recognise that there is an apparent (deliberate caveat) pecking-order in the material universe, doesn't mean that some other person or group may not hold science or the ecology with great reverence, perhaps worship. Egyptians, Mayans, Nth American Indians, Sub-Continent Indians, Africans, Europeans, Eskimos all worshiped the ecology (In fact, the first ecological laws were established by Maori tribes in New Zealand, well before anyone else) and the physical processes with which we take as day-to-day boring (unless of course you care to dig deep into the nature of the universe, where boredom fades rapidly and headaches take a noticeable place), to the scientist, can, and in some cases, does, steer them toward religious beliefs. Whether you know this or not, but there have been many ground-breaking scientists, who, through exhaustive efforts, reach a point where belief and faith are the building stones of reality. Most of the greatest scientists, including Einstein, had these levels of faith...especially Sir David Bohm (creator of the Implicate Order).

Ancient Janists didn't believe in the spirit world, they believed that emotions and even the soul reside in the matter that comprise the universe itself. I view this [so called] religion as the first true scientific community, as they incorporated this ideology not only into the natural world, but into their social structure too (do no harm). This established the foundations of both Hinduism and later Buddhism.

The Nazi salute - and Swastika - was taken from Jainism, but it's original meaning was, 'go into the world without fear, do no harm, as your soul is safe'. Can you see how even one basic principle can be bent (abused), through subjective opinion/belief.

And if you look at most of Physics itself (Electromagnetism, Special and General Relativity, Quantum Measurement etc), every point of view (frame of reference) is valid, no matter how great the contradiction (as seen in Lorentz contraction and Time Dilation). Only the Laws remain constant and are in fact preserved within each and every viewpoint. Every single frame of reference is uniquely subjective.

So, a long story short; when dealing with subjective content, we can only make a comparison between our own beliefs, with that of others. We can say nothing more than the apparent differences.

This may well hold true for money and economics as well, because I see great reverence for money and power held in the banking sector, but little for the ecology, or anything else for that matter.

As Max Keiser colorfully puts-it, "they believe they're doing gods work".

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 11:39 | 530522 Mark_BC
Mark_BC's picture

Yes we agree quite a lot it seems. I am a scientist at heart and I have studied a lot about biology, molecular biology, ecology, mechanics and engineering, and dabbled in relativity and quantum mechanics. I used to be an atheist because I erroneously equated that with science. But a while back I realized that I was completely backwards. I realized this when I took a deep look into how the scientific method works, and that it is not objective but subjective, it is based on observation, not truth. So basically, the scientific method doesn't tell us what's true, it tells us what's not not true. This seems silly but it is a very important distinction and when I realized the significance of this with respect to Buddhist beliefs it was a major turning point in my life. And then when you bring in quantum physics and molecular biology, you start to get a very interesting picture.... science does not preclude religion (atheists are religious too, they just worship material reductionism), although I am not religious, I am about as unreligious as you can get, simply living by the scientific method which questions everything unless you can demponstrate it with observation. This is the Great Doubt of Buddhism.

Maybe we'll discuss further at some point on ZH.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 11:37 | 528204 aerojet
aerojet's picture

That makes utterly no sense at all!

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:48 | 526586 optimator
optimator's picture

One cannot rule the whole planet militarily, but it can, and will, be ruled monitarily.  The Rothschild's and their partners have been working at for over a century.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 17:38 | 527044 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Uh Huh, and where does 100% of control of  Total World Finances lead one?. To the MARK.

Over a century?.............long before then amigo.

Skeptics of this belief, will likely (hopefully) do some serious soul searching as these days come to pass.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:02 | 525780 digalert
digalert's picture

Intentionally collapse the system that made America great, then use that failure as a platform to prove that free market capitalism doesn't work. good day comrades

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:04 | 525782 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

This article is an excellent description of the personal and financial insanity I've (endlessly) written about here on ZH. Not insane from the globalists and bankers point of view. They know what they're trying to do. But insanity from average Joe's point of view. This paragraph at the beginning sums it up nicely.

Many people hit a proverbial wall on this issue because they simply cannot fathom that certain groups of men (globalists and central bankers) view money and economy in completely different terms than they do. The average American lives within a tiny box when it comes to the mechanics and motivations of finance. They think that their monetary desires and drives are exactly the same as a globalist’s. But, what they don’t realize is that the box they think in was BUILT by globalists. This is why the actions of big banks and the decisions of our mostly corporate establishment run government seem so insane in the face of common sense. We try to rationalize their behavior as “idiocy”, but the reality is that their goals are highly deliberate and so far outside what we have been taught to expect that some of us lack a point of reference. If you cannot see the endgame, you will not understand the steps taken to reach it until it is too late.

The cognitive dissonance so many face when trying to reconcile what is actually happening with what they've been conditioned and indoctrinated to believe should happen is so huge, and the pain to overcome the dissonance so great, that many simply throw their hands into the air and assume the fetal position of victim hood.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:13 | 525808 Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

I always enjoy the reaction on people's faces when explaining how money is created.

It is a combination of apathy, amazement and a sense that someone just moved their cheese.

 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:30 | 525856 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Nice.

Even clients that I've had for over 15 years have a difficult time absorbing these concepts. And it's not just that it's contrary to everything they've learned. It's also contrary to everything they are told on a daily basis. The cover story, the public myth about our economic, political and social systems are rebroadcast on a daily basis, endlessly reinforcing our original programming.

Just as we parents understand that we slowly lose our children to "everything else" once our children enter the school system and begin their life long indoctrination and move away from our orbit, once my clients leave my office, the slow water torture of the mainstream media quickly erodes away any heightened awareness they had when they left.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:57 | 525928 Marla And Me
Marla And Me's picture

Hey CD,

Posted this on another thread, but thought you might like an early "birthday" present:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704407804575425561952689390.html?mod=WSJ_LifeStyle_LeadStoryNA

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:24 | 525998 russki standart
russki standart's picture

Good article. It may be oversimplified as Power Corrupts, and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely (Lord Acton),  and nice guys eventually finish last.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:49 | 526046 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Very nice. The money paragraph.

"It's an incredibly consistent effect," Mr. Keltner says. "When you give people power, they basically start acting like fools. They flirt inappropriately, tease in a hostile fashion, and become totally impulsive." Mr. Keltner compares the feeling of power to brain damage, noting that people with lots of authority tend to behave like neurological patients with a damaged orbito-frontal lobe, a brain area that's crucial for empathy and decision-making. Even the most virtuous people can be undone by the corner office.

People in power tend to act like they are brain damaged. How interesting. I have some stories that I would like to tell in a future article but to be honest I'm getting tired of reading comments about how self centered and narcissistic I am for talking about myself and my experiences. I do have one consistent response to that complaint though. Would you like me to talk about you instead? :>)

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:15 | 526167 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yes, please...I always like it when people talk about me

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:22 | 526190 trav7777
trav7777's picture

yes, please...I always like it when people talk about me, so much so that I double-post it

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:35 | 526236 Marla And Me
Marla And Me's picture

Publish it.  Who cares what some ZH newbie wants or doesn't want.  I suppose that even ZH isn't immune to entropy...  fantastic vibrant new blog that goes where no one else will rapidly grows into a force that gets mentioned on MSM news, starts to level off with the numbers of readers it attracts (we are here), and will likely decline in readership over time due to the bastardization of the "fight club" mentality that was so cherished among its early contributors.  It's the price to pay for making it big I suppose.  It happens to every great new music act I can think of.  The "hunger" drives their creativity, and once they've "made it," their subsequent body of work usually lacks the fire that made their early work so novel and refreshing. 

Heck, when I started reading ZH, it took me 6 months before I even posted a comment because I was so impressed with the overall quality of the comments and didn't want to speak unless I thought I would add anything constructive to the discussion.  Nowadays, people are just free associating right out of the gate.  I'm sure the paid shills are all over our pages too, which probably doesn't help.  There is also the problem of disapearing contributors (Chumbawumba and Velobabe, for example).  I wonder if the Tylers are dishing out the censorship they seem to rail against...

There has been a steady decline in the old-timers' contributions (Cheeky, Dead Head, Miles, MinnesotaNice, MsCreant, Gordon, Howard, etc.), so please feel free to continue your excellent contributions to the site.  Don't let the disinfo agent get you down.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:52 | 526277 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I actually said that to see what it attracted. I wasn't disappointed. Some people just can't resist stooping down to pick up some shiny penny on the ground. :>)

Actually most of what I wanted to say was in my "Welcome to the Insane Asylum" series, though what I published was trimmed down to the huge size it became. I have been considering writing on this subject but haven't formulated exactly how I wish to make my argument. But thanks for the vote of confidence. I will post that article when it's done.

I think you would be surprised how much disruption is caused by paid disinformation agents and psyops operatives cause here on ZH. I've been studying the issue for a few months for a novel I'm writing and even I've been amazed by what I've found. I thought I understood the subject pretty well but it's clear I suffer from a failure of imagination of how extensive it is and how much it's used, not just by governments but by corporations and special interest groups.

Regarding the missing old timers, I've had a chance to conduct private e-mail conversations with a few. Some have personal issues but some are fed up with what's happened to ZH. I'll say no more because I'm a guest.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:33 | 526371 Screwball
Screwball's picture

Regarding the missing old timers, I've had a chance to conduct private e-mail conversations with a few. Some have personal issues but some are fed up with what's happened to ZH. I'll say no more because I'm a guest.

I'll say it for you CD, we have fallen down and can't get up.  Maybe the Captcha needs to be harder.

With success come unintended consequences I guess. ZH commenter’s has become a gang of Yahoo rejects trying to make the big time.  In turn they have diluted the discussion like fiat dollars and naked shorts. Partisan bickering and personal attacks have become the norm, not the exception.  The level of intelligence has dropped like a flash crash trading day, and the Fed didn't come to the rescue.

For the people who are new, you really missed the brilliance and intellectual dialog which inhabited this space many months ago.  The writing at times would capture your thoughts and stir your cranium like no other site I have ever witnessed.  The contributors were a part of the whole that made an already great site even better.

I'm sad to see where this has went, and I'm even sadder I don’t get to read the comments by the people mentioned above.  They were not always agreed with, but they, and their opinion, were respected.  Conflicting opinions were stated without contempt and anger, but they were called on it, as they expected to be.  That’s how it should work.  We have morphed into something else, what I’m not sure, but not for the better.  We have proven how difficult it is to have an intelligent conversation in this insanity filled world. (Stole that from you CD, hope you didn’t mind)

We can't solve, enlighten, teach, collaborate, or learn, when we act like savages, beasts, bullies, and know-it-alls.  I truly hope we can all find the same side of that trade.

Note: Hope you don't take this the wrong way Tyler, as CD said, we are guests here.  Keep up the good work.

ON EDIT: And I missed the captcha question!  Dumbass.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:53 | 526784 merehuman
merehuman's picture

i missed my first one also __x 8= -8  I answered with 0 because its not possible. Then got __+30= 85  from the impossible to the too easy.

CD i am still happy in my heart, personal life is good, well prepared for the fall. Only person growing food in my hood is I. I have appoached most of my neighbors regarding our demise and as a whole they refuse to see it. TV leaves them with the feeling all is good, traffic still moves and the assumption seems to be we will recover.

I know more than l like about our circumstances and found it challenging spiritually. Our real true life is only in this moment , and best to be Centered in it. The here and now.

But the concerns regarding our future and survival therein has compelled me to live in my head/mind occupied with thoughts of our demise. It makes it difficult to be centered in the heart in the moment when the mind is so busy.

About got that licked. My lady is slipping into death as her heart is giving out day by day. However long i shall live after she passes, i will spend my remaining days fighting this monstrosity for the sheer sake of the battle.

For standing idly by as this transpires is difficult now, when my mate passes it will be impossible.

I have been a taxpayer and consumer. Now i am neither and soon shall be an insurgent, rebel. I will harm no one, "kILROY WAS HERE"  will be written and you will know then it was I.

And , yes i know the consequences, thing is once my lady passes on, the worst they can do is keep me alive. If they come for a precrime arrest i guarantee i am not dying alone and sure not going without a fight.

 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:15 | 526839 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+1, +1, +1

CogDis, Screwball, merehuman.

I got here to ZH kind of late (I guess), but this is one of favorite places on the 'Net.  Take heart!  There are still diamonds in the rough here, at least I still find gems here.

Shine on you crazy diamonds!

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 06:30 | 527764 narlah
narlah's picture

-1 x 8 = -8

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:24 | 526865 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

CD, you should publish what you like or think to be beneficial.  As for the old-timers being gone, well, things change.  Not always for the best it seems.  There are some of the veterans that I miss, but some were outrageous.  I'd like to see a compendium from you of how you think (and have been told) ZH has changed.  The pro and con of the entire argument.  It would help those of us who have considered just dropping in periodically instead of making ZH a regular diet.  

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 18:09 | 527112 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

RR

Let me ask you an honest question. You have been invited for an open ended extended stay at a friends home and for the most part you enjoy it immensely. BUT there are also some (serious?) problems as well. As a guest, what right do you have to discuss derogatory and potentially insulting opinions either in front or behind the back of your guest?

This is strictly a hypothetical question but it clearly applies to this situation. I am a guest contributor to ZH. What moral and ethical right do I have to discuss other people's (and mine as well) opinions about ZH on ZH? I look forward to your reply.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 19:02 | 527223 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Off-site solution.  Easy enough.  The meeting is on neutral ground.

More than a few ZH commenters have had no problem expressing their feelings, but then they are the bad guests that nobody invites again! 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 19:59 | 527297 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Thanks for your response.

I am a guest ZH contributor. Not simply a commenter. I'm not afraid of being thrown out. But I personally feel that if I'm a guest that has free rein, if I don't like the accommodations I should leave, not bitch and complain. ZH has it's problems and I've mentioned a few in the comment section. But to air other people's opinions is in my view extremely rude and uncalled for, at least from myself.

ZH has always accepted my articles without question. I've never been told not to publish anything. I write what I want whenever I want with not so much as a peep from ZH. If I was abused it might be a different matter. But I'm not and I don't wish to disrespect my host in their house and I'm not sure I would do it anywhere in public.

Just my opinion. I did consider an article on the subject of how ZH has changed over the past year. And I decided not to do so for the same reasons. I suspect some people will feel I'm wimping out. That's fine. I try to treat people fairly and I expect people to treat me fairly as well. It really revolves around being an invited guest.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 21:34 | 527411 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Would that the Internet in general had the same basic social graces that were taught in families, schools, and other venues of the past.  Ah, but not so.  Perhaps it's the anonymity that gives many the misconceived perception that they can be rude and disrespectful.  The common thank you note and RSVP reply has been lost to history.  I sent a graduation present to 3 recent graduates, only 1 sent a thank you -- and it was an email.  Your courtesy is understood and appreciated. 

Signed:  Old School

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:28 | 526365 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

Well, sometimes contributors are on vacation or suddenly have to work on project deadlines, so I'm hoping their absence is temporary. I too look forward to reading their contributions.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:48 | 526585 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I second Marla and Me - publish it CD!

as to the "newbie" discussion. . . well, I've only had an account to post for about 6months, although I was a regular for months prior. . . so I realise I'm not an "old-timer" and some of them are definitely missed by me as well. . . for what it's worth, I don't trade, and despite reading threads about trading, I rarely comment within them out of respect for those who want to stick with the topic.

but I do feel that it's important to go beyond "market trading" dialogues towards awareness of the whole system, and that's why I'm here - I've yet to find anywhere else that has the consistent brilliance of many who post here - the links alone can keep me busy for hours, and that's a valuable tool in staying aware.

anyhow, more topic threads such as this, keep stirring the pot so that nothing gets "stuck" & if anyone has a problem, argue it out! 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:55 | 526793 merehuman
merehuman's picture

C A , you spoke for me as well . thank youi

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 08:19 | 527836 bc0203
bc0203's picture

I'm getting tired of reading comments about how self centered and narcissistic I am for talking about myself and my experiences. I do have one consistent response to that complaint though. Would you like me to talk about you instead? :>)

 Thanks, I needed a good laugh this morning.

 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:35 | 526029 doomandbloom
doomandbloom's picture

Its been more than a year now, am  talking to people, and try to explain how things 'really' work.

1. while everyone agrees that the system is not right, they believe they can 'beat' the system, like someone coming to ZH to get a bearish tip , which they can trade and make money. ( the system is rigged for failure, the moment we agree to play the game , we lose)

2. They think that a system cannot be changed by talking or understanding. They need action. They ask me what am I 'doing' about it (this system is being run by our approval and at the minimum  accepting that things are not right and can be changed, will upset the game, if enough people wake up)

3. they think i have gone mad( which i may have )

4. they think i am reading the wrong things ( They really seem to know what is  'right' )

5. they actually think that the manipulators of the system will never let it go , like Leo who said 'the Fed has got us by our balls' ( so instead of standing up, at least, in their writings, people want to see green solars)

 

Anyways coming back to this comment

If you cannot see the endgame, you will not understand the steps taken to reach it until it is too late.

 

The endgame is not very clear. Global governance does not look bad, why should it, there is global governance even now. Single global govt, is not going to change anything to the small people, why should they be interested? The endgame for me lies somewhere else, something more evil and sinister that mere global governance.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:03 | 526123 MSJChE
MSJChE's picture

There is plenty to worry about with a single global government.  A single government would "do what's right" for the whole, by using the resources of the "rich" countries to help the poor countries.  Further, the responsible action for a central government would be to allow the West to inflate their rediculous debts away. 

The type of civil unrest that would ensue would trigger a police state-like reaction from the Patriot Act, HLS, etc.

We have to remain sovereign and do what's right for us.  Get out of the wars, then wean ourselves off of entitlements.  Damn daunting, huh?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:25 | 526210 tamboo
tamboo's picture

you are getting at global population reduction,

they only need about 500 million folks as slaves.

the rest are kissinger's useless eaters and they've got

to go. corexit induced food/health crisis anyone?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 14:53 | 526604 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

nanotechnology.

biowarfare.

if you want to begin to understand "endgame" start there.

Operation Control the Weather.

etc.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:57 | 526792 Council of Econ...
Council of Economic Terrorists's picture

Vaccines

Chemtrails

HAARP

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:58 | 526798 merehuman
merehuman's picture

chemtrails world wide , fake flues , worse shots and flouride in our water.

Education system that isnt.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:43 | 526056 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

I have to admit CD, after getting half way through the article I went back up to see who wrote it and I was inclined to think it was you.

These are also my beliefs as far as the true obstacle to overcome.  Our incredulity is our worse enemy right now. Until we see things for what they really are, the forces controlling us move at will.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:58 | 526112 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Funny because as I was reading it I had multiple cases of "Deja Vu" myself. However, on ZH I only have one ID and that's Cognitive Dissonance. In fact, I use that ID on a few other (much less well know) blogs and web sites in addition to ZH.

Overall s/he is writing along the same lines as I have and do. And while it was well written, I felt there were several times where stronger examples could have been used to bolster the overall argument. But still a good piece.

I suspect it was trimmed a bit to make it easier to read by us ADHD afflicted. That's one of the reasons my pieces are terribly long and tax the reader. Anytime I try to cut back, it winds up getting worse, not better. But that just speaks to my poor editing skills.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:53 | 526091 tired1
tired1's picture

If you were inclined to be somewhat optomistic, you could just consider that you've planted a time delayed explosive. It takes a while to absorb these concepts. You've planted to seeds of skepicism, they take a while to grow (keep watering).

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:04 | 526127 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Thank you for that shot of optimism and an alternative point of view. I do see that some of it is sticking. And my clients are slowing waking up, though I think it has more to do with the onslaught of insanity than me. They are beginning to talk to those around them.

But the economic, social and political bombs are exploding faster than their awareness is growing. There is always a large lag time and this is where the most severe damageoccurs. This is the classic sign and of deeply dysfunctional and conditioned population.

The population of Germany didn't truly begin to awaken until their country lay in ruins. The same could be said about Japan. Why would we Americans think we're any different when we're following the same script? I do have hope and I think the awakening is coming globally this time. But there is great pain coming and this always brings out the worst before the best can follow.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:24 | 526710 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

hundredth monkey effect, CD!

that and the realisation that an evolution of mind needs to happen as well.

helps to get one's "philosophy" sorted before TSHTF, eh?

best to you!

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:25 | 526209 Zero Debt
Zero Debt's picture

Wait, did you just describe the synopsis for Inception?

The knife at the table and Mal. The children smiling. Everything so calm.

But the seed was already planted. Still, it was just an idea.

 

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 22:12 | 531968 Geoff-UK
Geoff-UK's picture

You're bummin me out, dude...

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:13 | 525976 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

They teach it to you in Econ 104 - Money & Banking. A required course.

And they expect you to pay the tuition charged for that course. Preferrably by going into student loan or credit card debt to do so. So they charge you to demonstrate how you are being fucked for life. Brilliant!

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:11 | 526153 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Yes, we do pay for our own indoctrination, starting in our taxes paying for 1 - 12 "public school education" and then a more intensive dose for those who wish further conditioning in order to "go further" in life. Our social, political and economic system requires intensive brain washing and conditioning. We just prefer to call it something else. Our natural tendencies to be individuals are beaten out of us starting in kindergarten.

Very few people "do" what they really would like to do. The vast majority "do" what they must do in order to "survive" in a system they didn't design, don't like and would abandon in a NY minute of there were choices offered. Thus choices beyond those that serve the system are never offered. We are conditioned to believe we must "work" 8 to 10 hours a day in order to make "money" to purchase "things" in order to survive. Notice I did not say live, just survive. 

I know of no one who dreams at 5 to work in an airless office building with poor lighting handcuffed to a cubicle. Except maybe those sociopathic personalities among us.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:24 | 526352 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

"We are conditioned to believe we must "work" 8 to 10 hours a day in order to make "money" to purchase "things" in order to survive. Notice I did not say live, just survive."

Man, that is it right there. Last night I watched the film WALL-E. The most poignant line in that movie comes from the captain. The HAL equivalent on the ship tells him that, "on the axiom, you will survive". The captain responds by saying "I don't want to survive, I want to LIVE". That hit me like boat paddle to the face. I've been so numb for so long that I have allowed myself to believe that life just sucks and that is that. It isn't true. As we are now, it's as if we're a room full of supercomputers with quantum processor cores being used to play solitaire. What I can't seem to do for the life of me is to effectively communicate to those around me the idea that we're worth a lot more than we give ourselves credit for. It doesn't have to be like this. We can do better. Thanks CD, you're my favorite poster, never quit.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:35 | 526381 minus dog
minus dog's picture

This is precisely why it is nearly impossible to simply live and mind your own business in this country - you can't even be a dirt farmer, the government will simply take your land when you can't give them your yearly tribute of green paper rectangles.  What we have doesn't seem as obnoxious on the surface as having to go down to your local ministry of labor and take your job assignment, but it is just as pervasive.

I have the feeling that various elites feel pressured to finish their projects before certain genies get out of the bottle.  It's going to become easier (though not any more legal) for individuals and groups to shrug off the system if they continue to have unfettered access to technology.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:51 | 526428 romanko
romanko's picture

I like my cubicle. It's warm and comfy and I feel safe inside it. It conjures up distant memories from the womb, when my cord provided all the nourishment I needed.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 02:37 | 527685 suckapump
suckapump's picture

Many people hit a proverbial wall on this issue because they simply cannot fathom that certain groups of men (globalists and central bankers) view money and economy in completely different terms than they do. The average American lives within a tiny box when it comes to the mechanics and motivations of finance. They think that their monetary desires and drives are exactly the same as a globalist’s. But, what they don’t realize is that the box they think in was BUILT by globalists.

Neo: I know what you're trying to do.

Morphius: I'm trying to free your mind, Neo. But I can only show you the door. You're the one that has to walk through it.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:27 | 526000 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

The worse it gets, the more insane MSM will become. They have no other choice. Not to mention that they are owned by an ever decreasing number of ever larger entities. The article makes an interesting point. We've all seen plenty of evidence of specific corruption and criminal behavior to fix or steal certain pieces of the economy but it takes a whole other mindset to accept that the entire economy is being manipulated and destroyed by a very select and powerful few who are motivated by nothing more than mental health issues. That's a hell of a statement but it's not a first in history. Even though the article and some comments on this site demonstrate that many folks will respond with "give me a break," in fact, corrupt psychotic control is more the norm that the exception. I remember having a passionate argument with my brother over 911 and he indicated that it was impossible for it to be a false flag because it either would "take too many people to pull off" or "it was too psychotic to be credible." As history shows us over and over, neither statement is true. Speaking of, I finally got a copy of "Collapse" and watched it this weekend. Ruppert is an interesting and somewhat sad character as the film captures but there is something eerily poetic in the former cop who uncovers CIA drug running and his entire world and belief system is torn out from under him. We are all there now. Near the end, he made an interesting point. Said when the Soviet Union collapsed there was a perfect example of a couple of directions dependent countries could take: Cuba who gave out seeds and told everyone to grow and North Korea. 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 15:43 | 526762 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

great post DaveyJones. . . ponder the world's "leaders" right now, and ask yourself just how many are considered "psychotic" by some / many. . .seems a prerequisite, eh?

dejunk'd your anonymous click-happy junker.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:51 | 526274 1100-TACTICAL-12
1100-TACTICAL-12's picture

We constantly ask ourselves why they do the stupid shit they do. I think we all know why. I mean they can't be that stupid right?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:35 | 526385 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Brilliant post --- I could almost have written it (although not in such an articulate fashion).

Back in 1978, several political activist groups (one of which I belonged to at that time), along with a brilliant socioeconomicpolitical analyst predicted just about everything which is occurring today.

That one group I was with in 1978, happened to have a short and sweet meeting -- involving a protest at that time -- with a director of the World Bank.

He was extremely wealthy, worth over $1 billion at that time and a member of the Du Pont family (he had married into it -- making his money the old-fashioned way, 'natch!).

Fundamentally he said, in a much abridged manner, what this brilliant poster, GB, just now stated -- and he said there was nothing we could do to stop it.

Scarey, now ain't it.......

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:03 | 525783 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

...so the Rothschild family still have a bit of ecology left to play Adam and Eve in garden...hope that snake's a 50ft Anaconda and that Monsanto Apple gives them a chronic dose of cancer.

F.U.B.A.R !

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:05 | 525787 Headbanger
Headbanger's picture

Oh now you've done it Gordo! Just remember though, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you!

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:08 | 525795 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

No global conspiracy. There are too many competing interests and too much stupidity for a grand unifying conspiracy to occur. Just lots of stupid, greedy, shortsighted people focused on themselves.

There is no arch criminal behind it all, no Kaizer Soze.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:22 | 525830 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Kaizer Soze junked me. Sorry, Kaizer.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:23 | 525834 Bankster T Cubed
Bankster T Cubed's picture

the arch criminals depend on their being lots of stupid, greedy, shortsighted and incredulous people

without them they could never succeed

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:24 | 525835 umop episdn
umop episdn's picture

And you know this exactly how? I don't think your disbelief comes from anything other than your unwillingness to believe that just perhaps you have not been that smart a primate. I might be wrong-maybe WMD’s (Weapons of Mass Distraction) got to you. Maybe you are paid to actually BE a WMD. Gah.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 10:29 | 525851 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

Burden of proof is on those making a claim, like conspiracy. Or maybe I really am Kaizer Soze. How would you know?

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:25 | 526001 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Not only do they bear the burden of proof, they bear the burden of reasonableness...  When all the dust settles, there will not be a lone or handful of boogeymen.  What we know of as the boot on our throats is the result of independent actions seemingly concerted because of a convergence of incentives.

Basically, the theories of a handful of people pulling all the strings rely upon the "perfect shot" assumption.  In a nutshell, the puppet masters would have pulled off, literally, the most perfect oppression in the history of the earth, in broad daylight.  I just think that, all things considered, the concept of god can never pass occam's razor and, conveniently, we're all too desperate to convince ourselves that someone, anyone, has control.

The best part is, the people at the top of the...  "face" of the puppet masters have NO idea they are puppets.  Every principal actor involved is not worthy of an academy award...  Greenspan (mr credit bubble) had NO fucking idea...  you can see it in his face when he finally started second guessing himself.  These people aren't worthy of our praise...  they aren't wizards...  they're bureaucrats and machiavellian standouts...  same way assholes get elected everywhere.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:53 | 526422 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

"Basically, the theories of a handful of people pulling all the strings rely upon the "perfect shot" assumption"

This isn't the case at all. In reality, all that they need, and many times all that they have, is plausible deniability. That and Bill Clinton standing at his podium and sternly repeating "HOW DARE YOU? HOW DARE YOU?". Of course we forget at that moment that he didn't respond to the point at hand. We simply feel outraged because, well, HOW DARE YOU?!?

 

 "You can't prove that" is the preordained response which allows us to self police.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vU-nMsyXP0s

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 22:41 | 527510 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I'm not sure how to respond to this...  so, please consider it a request for additional information.  At first glance, it seems off topic...  not a response to my point.  Plausible deniability does not create a worldwide enterprise.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 13:48 | 528558 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

I've made some assumptions about your reasoning. Please correct me if i'm wrong about anything.

 

I was responding to your "perfect shot" reference. I am assuming that you're of the opinion that it would be impossible for such coordination to exist among the ruling elite. You said, “In a nutshell, the puppet masters would have pulled off, literally, the most perfect oppression in the history of the earth, in broad daylight. “ Its like the Southpark episode about 9/11 conspiracy. They have W saying something to the effect of, ‘of course we did it, it was only the most flawlessly executed and perfectly coordinated military exercise ever, ever…” While that is difficult to argue on the surface, I don’t believe that it is impossible for a relatively small group to exert massive influence on the rest of the populace, at least to some extent. This is especially true when we consider that the entire world is set up like a corporation, complete with need-to-know clauses and management hierarchy. I base this claim on the idea that humans have a deep desire to be fooled, as long as the trickery fits into ‘the plan’.  

 

I’ll clarify my comment now by saying the ‘perfect shot’ explanation seems like the reason you think it is impossible for there to be a “boogeyman”. What I am asserting is that they do not need a perfect shot. They simply need to cover their asses with plausible deniability. I’m not saying that the fact that plausible deniability exists in situations where outrageous claims have been made is evidence of conspiracy. That is backwards. On the other hand, I am also trying to say that the idea that conspiracies don’t exist at the highest levels because it would require too much cohesion and perfect execution, is probably just as flawed. Look at what Dick Cheney was up to on 9/11, for a quick illustration of that concept. So we can assume our hypothetical conspirators are aware that things must happen precisely.

 

To be perfectly honest, I have no idea the degree of organization that actually exists for this hypothetical cabal of bankers/elitists with sights set on trying to exert Orwellian control over populations. I can’t say with certainty that it actually even exists, although you have to admit that the evidence of such a group is all around us, no matter how ‘real’ or ‘imagined’ it is.

 

 I am willing to say that the level of organization and coordination between these types lies somewhere between total control of everything we do by 1 person at the top and your theory of “the boot on our throats is the result of independent actions seemingly concerted because of a convergence of incentives.” It’s probably somewhere closer to the middle of that continuum. Who knows really, I just don’t buy the ‘perfect shot’ argument without knowing more about the mechanics of the system that is being rigged.

 

Lastly, let’s assume for the moment that they did need to do everything in ‘perfect shot’ fashion. Again, you said above that, “the puppet masters would have pulled off, literally, the most perfect oppression in the history of the earth, in broad daylight”. Considering that most conspiracy theorists believe that the ‘ruling elites’ have been carrying on in this manner for centuries. My final question is, what makes this impossible? Slow boil the frog, man.

Wed, 08/18/2010 - 17:12 | 529080 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

First, correlation is not causation.

Second, most of this seems directed at the possibility of a cabal, not the probability of a cabal.  I, along with the rest of the population, do not base my daily actions on sheer possibility, but rather probability (generally determined through stereotype).  To this end, the possibility exists for there to be a heaven, embodied on a planet, filled with purple barney dinosaurs.  Although technically possible, I see no reason it would be remotely probable.  In other words, I do not dispute the possibility... 

Third, the cabal theory operates with the same constraints as god does with respect to occam's razor.  Effectively, I propose that the results we see are the actions of similarly incentivized actors...  and along comes the cabal theory and says, "+1, there is a cabal at the top."  There is always an extra step in the scheme.  Maybe this is an inherent limitation in occam's razor due to the impracticality of naming all the constraints...  but, maybe this is another peach in the no cabal pile.

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 09:52 | 530130 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

You're saying it's more probably the case that there is not a 'cabal'. I'm saying that your perfect shot explanation is not enough to disprove their hypothetical existance, as that seems to be the drop off point for you. I'm arguing that, although I understand the burden of proof lies on those making the claim that there is a cabal, I don't think you can simply state that the cabal doesn't exist because of the perfect shot. You may be right, but not because of the perfect shot. I think we can leave it at that because without the right proof to satisfy your skepticism, it's useless to discuss our opinions further.

 

On the other hand, because most of what we do on the internet is useless, I will lay out my views for anyone who cares to read them. I, for one, am open to the possibility of the existence of a cabal. From what I've seen, and from what I understand, I think there does exist groups that try to shape the landscape for the rest of us. Regardless of that fact, I will probably not change my actions either way. This is because if the cabal does exist , I am woefully incapable of doing anything to stop it.

So for the time being, I'm doing what I believe is best for myself based on the information that I have, just like the rest of the population.

If we're being honest with ourselves, I think we can say that the positions we're taking are actually guesses. If you think your guess is more educated than my guess, then I assume you would go with yours. However, we're looking at the same available facts and making our guess based on that. You guess there is no cabal, and I guess there is one. Good enough, we'll believe what we want to. Also, we'll probably believe the thing that changes our worldview the least.

 

In regards to Occam's razor, I think it is pretty much an empty statement. It's good advice, but practically useless. It says you should make as few assumptions as possible. Okay. Surely Occam never considered quantum physics or Einstein's geometry when he said that. Newtonian physics makes fewer assumptions than Einstein, but who is more correct? The multi-verse theory is also not the theory with the least assumptions, yet many scientists adhere to that explanation. I guess, as with all sweeping generalizations, the accuracy decreases as the scope of the generalization increases.

At the end of the day, we'll believe whatever we want to. Maybe your mind is superior to mine, in which case I should bow down to your position. However, you'll probably never prove that to me, and I rarely do what I should, so here we are. Take care friend.

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 15:09 | 531052 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

First, the cabal theory is not even falsifiable.  This is why it persists and permeates the interweb.  Essentially, the theory rests upon the perpetual existence of masked figures who are too clever to ever reveal themselves or their scheme.  When the sun burns out, and these people still have yet to unmask themselves, will they still be controlling everything?

Second, the "perfect shot" assumption only goes to probability not possibility...

Third, I don't care if there is a cabal or not so long as it is impossible to prove and/or corner.  I'm not saying the cabal does not exist...  I'm saying that from all the information I've seen, I do not think it is more probable than not.  In this sense, just like god, nothing until proven something.  In other words, given I was not innately born with the concept of the cabal, nor have I been indoctrinated into its intimacies, I need something sufficient enough to challenge my present beliefs.  If I made the leap of faith necessary to believe in the all encompassing, all knowing cabal, then I would literally be left without a persistent and consistent belief platform.  I'm willing to jump, but I need to discern whether there are rocks down there first.

Fourth, and this is what always kills me about theists...  only the party with the burden of proof is making a guess.  If not, then we quickly derail all thought to guess...  I suppose you can make the argument, but practically speaking I'm guessing we all lead our lives (real as opposed to academic) differently.  In other words, I need not invoke a cabal to explain the world around me...  if you want to add a sinister motive of a select few people to the mix, fine, but just be aware that your theory ends up being more complex and you bear the burden for the difference.

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 17:15 | 531404 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

I have to admit that you're right about this. If I were to try and argue your points any further, I would just be splitting semantic hairs. I was on shaky ground from the start, and I'll admit that. The burden of proof is on the claimant, and there is no proof to speak of. You've taught me a lesson, so I thank you.  

 

My concerns come from viewing current events, and recognizing the trend towards totalitarianism. You might say I'm imagining this trend, but it certainly seems like the tendency for governments is to try and gain more power, not relinquish it to the individual. There seems to be a clear agenda towards total control (this is why I believe anarchists are a necessary foil to governments in some sense). You spoke earlier of converging incentives as the reason for any perceived existence of 'the cabal'. I wonder if you could outline specifically what these incentives are or give me some examples of what you mean.

 

I'm not an atheist, but I don't believe in Zeus in the sky with diamonds either. I do believe that humans are like supercomputers being used to play solitaire, and that is the greatest crime of our species. We're always tending toward our basest instincts, and we almost never choose to take the high road. I also believe we can evolve past this.

 

On the topic of belief, no matter if you believe in the big bang or creationism, you're taking a leap of faith. Athiests will claim that science is on their side in this issue, but you're still left with the problem of the first mover. Of course it is possible that the universe all came out of nothingness spontaneously and without reason, however improbable or however contrary to the laws of physics. I suppose the laws of physics were moot before the big bang, just like the concept of 'before'. So I am of the opinion that Atheism requires faith just as any religion, its just that that faith is placed in science instead of an ambiguous concept of 'God'.

 

However, science is not infallible. It cannot explain anything that is not empirical. It is a system of taking empirical data and making sense of it. So there are obvious differences in the concepts: Science is a verification tool, and God is an ambiguous entity-type-thing. My point is, that it requires faith. In this case, it requires faith that the science we understand today is correct and that will always be the case. I think that science will continue to rework and retool itself through new discoveries until we find a unified theory, evidence that there is none, or we completely give up looking.

 

I think that there is a reason you can't prove or falsify the existence of god. I think the reason is that it is necessary for us humans to believe in something. So, I guess the next question is, why am I wrong in assuming that Atheists require faith for their beliefs to work out? Thanks for the great conversation, I wish it was always like this on ZH.

Thu, 08/19/2010 - 21:04 | 531828 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

The reason why you see a trend towards a unified world government and intermeshed trade and economic relations is because that is the reality of our world.  It is the necessary derivative of our desperate need for growth.  Most of the time, we play nice in the process, but sometimes the sandbox gets too confining.  Ultimately, there are boundaries to our expansion...  (and political/economic relations).

I strongly believe cap and trade is one of the necessary components to a world government.  At this juncture, our world leader needs the ability to print fiat in a world where fiat is universally shunned (ok, the dollar is still king, but its days are numbered).  Trading carbon credits in the new world currency will be as important as trading oil in dollars is presently.  I also strongly believe that of all the events of recent history and as historians try and piece together the events that lead to the fall of the american empire, climategate will be a very important event. 

The problem with the single world government is exactly what was displayed at Copenhagen...  essentially, the Chinese can come in and tell everyone to go fuck themselves.  The single world government is not really a "world" government so much as the evolution of the american need to expand.  This is why it has not happened, because other countries are not going to get favorable exchange rates.  Ultimately, the battle lines are drawn between the western/industrialized nations and the emerging/growing nations.  Unless and until we are willing to bomb them for polluting, they will continue to take our pie.  Effectively, we are impotent as using the resources necessary to combat their growth would defeat the entire concept.

So, world government isn't a very accurate term...  more like western/old power governments attempting to keep from hanging up the spurs.

As for humanity...  We are capable of whatever we do.  Simple as that.  Putting feathers in our ass does not make us a chicken.  We are capable of great things...  truly magnificent in all of space and time...  but we are also capable of atrocities...  I'm sure equally shunned.  It's just who we are...  Personally, I find it entertaining, but even the comedian had a breakdown.

As for the leap of faith...  it's also not fair to imply all leaps of faith are created equal.  For example, it's one thing to discuss the concept of a first mover...  it's another thing altogether to suggest the first mover is a conscious being.  God can either be a term describing the process of our initial creation or god can be a term describing a sentient being who consciously created us.  The former might pass the Razor, the latter, not so much.

Also, it is not fair to contend that theists just leave it at that...  you can't just leave it at that...  Hitchens (hope he lives, but fucking hell he's drank a lot of scotch) has covered this topic ad nauseum.  The allure of being able to suggest what god thinks is simply too seductive.  As is the desire to convince others of the validity of such suggestions.  The theists you're talking about are all academics...  I shit on academics.  It's a failed religion.

Further, we need not prove that god does not exist...  rather, we can paint the concept of god into a corner of reasonability (god spaces).  In a nutshell, if we can disprove the areas for which god was formerly given credit, we can limit god's reach and call into question our desire to perpetuate the myth.  Whether it be disease, famine, or the geocentric earth...  these things are slowly given way to new understanding.  It's only after the fact that theists attempt to reconcile these differences, retreat, and retrench.  Eventually, they'll be painted into the corner...  whereby the concept of god, although not disproven, becomes unreasonable to believe in...  same as the heaven of barney dinosaurs. 

As for anarchists...  well, I think Ayn Rand (although universally hated) pretty much summed up the inconsistency of their beliefs.  I think, in the end, Nietzche will be right...  the nihilists will be our vessel to the promise land...  where they can be promptly discarded and a new system built based upon reason and understanding...  rather than tradition and superstition.  It will be interesting to watch how these issues play out with the contraction of credit.  How long peoples' wills last, thinking god will save them.  Ultimately, they'll have to face the reality that the future is determined by how they shape the world, how hard they work, and how disciplined and diligent they are to ensure not only our survival, but our enlightenment.  Who the fuck knows how it pans out... 

In regards to examples of unified incentives, here is a brief, non-exhaustive list: offshoring; liar's loans; psychologically directed (manipulating?)advertising; governmental use of increased retirement benefits for public workers (happens at all levels of government); expansion of traditional banks into trading institutions; use of imported labor; bonus culture; use and domination of limited liability organizations; securitization; etc.  All of these things have a material effect on our present situation.  Now, you might say, well, many of these items are simply the derivative of governmental action.  Yes, true...  however, many of these things also shape governmental action in response...  so, it's a morphing relationship... 

One might also suggest that at the center of it all is a central bank...  the problem is that central bankers are not villains in and of themselves.  They're simply the enablers of our terrible discipline.  They're no more than drug pushers.  We just don't have the discipline to tell them no.  It isn't the credit system that is the sole root of all our problems...  it's more of an enabler than a proactive participant.  Now, I'm not suggesting that the policy of central banks does not adapt to changing situations, but I am saying that our problems are too dynamic to pin to the FED (or the cabal controlling it).  That world view is simply too focused...  our world is vastly more dynamic and vibrant.  There are a myriad of reasons for our predicament...  maybe it's got its hand in all the pots, but it's not that simple, especially considering the relationship between the FED and our government (it's the government that allows the FED to persist, not the other way around).

Time for supper.  

Fri, 08/20/2010 - 08:23 | 532388 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

Well, I have to agree that it will be interesting to watch it unfold. We'll see what happens. I've got me some reading to do, thanks for taking the time.

I have one final question for you. Do you think cap-n-trade is a good idea and will be effective? Personally, I wouldn't trust anything that doesn't put serious resources into researching alternatives, and I don't see that anywhere in the cap and trade plan. Maybe I missed something.

Fri, 08/20/2010 - 11:41 | 532932 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I think the concept of correctly apportioning the true/real cost of production is good.  However, the implementation of a system incorporating such cost will not only negatively impact our pocketbooks at a time of desperate need, but also act to limit our personal freedoms and productivity.  Externalities are something that we have not yet reconciled in our world view...  we have no idea what to do.  As a result, you should be incredibly skeptical of any person or entity claiming a cure...  look beneath the proposal, and you'll find layers and layers of self interest, likely to the detriment of all others, potentially even themselves to a lesser degree.

I suppose a wolf may, on some rare occasion, have a sheep's best interest in mind...  but, as a sheep, you'd be hard pressed to let the wolf get close enough to make the sales pitch.  That's why it will never happen...

No, I think it is a terrible idea and will not be effective.  Emerging countries know we are impotent to defend against their cheap products and labor...  they also know that we no longer have the resources to bomb all of them.  As each day progresses, they become more resiliant to our efforts...  and I do not blame them one bit.  It has not been too long ago we were in the same boat.

I believe the death of the dollar may act as a "reset" button for much of the world...  However, I think the psychological barrier is broken and our stranglehold has lost its grip.  Maybe worldwide demand becomes vastly more introspective post collapse...  but, I think the playing field for the post collapse pie will be vastly more level.  In other words, the collapse of the dollar will only prolong the changing of the guard.  Hopefully we can secure a decent size piece, but we'll have to be willing to work for it.

Fri, 08/20/2010 - 12:28 | 533059 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

And work we shall. Overall, I am optimistic for the future. There will be much pain, but I hold a lot of hope that the end result will be better. Thank you so much for taking your time to educate a willing imbecile. Most people would probably just decide I was a dumbass and leave it at that, so I thank you. I really appreciate the discussion, and I wish you all the best. Peace!

Fri, 08/20/2010 - 14:43 | 533365 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

I am not your messiah, I'm just an asshole that posts on the internet, at the expense of a giant to do list.  I am also routinely full of shit and incorrect.  But even a blind hog finds an acorn every once and a while.

Remember, people with the least intelligence (not directed at you) can come to every bit as good of conclusion about the world and personal decisions as persons of vast intelligence (certainly not me) simply by virtue of understanding the limitations of their knowledge and that of others.  In effect, this is wisdom.  Know thyself.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:32 | 526018 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The various conspiracies, or more accurately realities, have repeatedly been shown to exist. What you're really saying is that the burden of proof lay in someone convincing you of something you don't wish to be convinced of. That is impossible and an altogether unreasonable burden that can never be satisfied.

The preponderance of evidence supports the reality of very real and active efforts by many elites (NOT a handful though they are few measured in relation to total global population) to control and manipulate the economic, social and political systems. You're welcome to believe what you wish.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:36 | 526033 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

You're welcome to believe what you wish.

Thanks, so are you.

 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 11:41 | 526053 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

CD, this is a retreat and retrenchment from the bilderberg theorists...  I doubt many would argue that the world's elite (diverse) have control over the world, shape policy, and dictate significant portions of our daily lives.  I don't know of anyone who would label that a "conspiracy" theory...  more of an incredibly simple observation.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:16 | 526171 Internet Tough Guy
Internet Tough Guy's picture

If you read CD's comments (I stopped long ago) you will find they are verbose, vain, and vertiginous.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:38 | 526245 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

And if you read ITG's comments you will find he is a shill.  He's the kind of guy that gets that deep down clean feeling from hating brown people and insulting people that use critical thinking to understand things.

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:42 | 526255 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Congratulations on a truly classic ad hominem attack. Wonderfully executed in fact. Of course you still read my comments since you regularly reply to them, such as you did above. You succeeded not only in insulting me but also in dismissing me at the same time. Bravo! Two birds with one stone. Expert no less.

They teach these techniques in the school of the America's you know, along with political assassination, financial extortion, poisons, weapons training and basket weaving. :>) 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 12:49 | 526268 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

"They teach these techniques in the school of the America's you know, along with political assassination, financial extortion, poisons, weapons training and basket weaving. :>)"

You forgot acting. It makes all the other skills work better.

 

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 16:33 | 526892 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

basket weaving AND how to be a basket case

Tue, 08/17/2010 - 13:08 | 526320 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

I  can't provide the burden of proof part but I have two sensible concepts that I drive from a " malicious beehive theory"

 

1) Humans are IM0 are too weak  and self serving to pull off a grand conspiracy. But their collective sociopathy  could be contributing to some more complex sentience of which we  are not entirely aware.

 2) If the global government is in fact human collectivity somehow trying to come to life, surely its biggest enemy would be  individuality and self determination. I know this sounds like science fiction, but if a sentience is striving to exist, it would first  send its "antibodies" to wipe out free thought. Think of how the hive would react to individual bees planning for themselves or focusing on their own personal goals or dreams.  The Hive, though the very existence of its sentience is not clear, appears to act as e single creature without constituent elements  being aware of how they contribute or what the "grand scheme" is.

 

 Synopsis: perhaps a grand conspiracy is underway without the knowledge or intentional participation of its principal contributors.

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