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Guest Post: Smoot Hawley Redux

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Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:40 | 932966 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Smoot-Hawley is the most overblown piece of legislation in history. Sure, it didn't help things, but it was hardly the job killer is was made out to be. There were far more serious factors. One of them that few economists talk about, is the war debts from WWI. And I'm not talking about Germany. I'm talking about England, France, etc. having to pay American bankers.

It was these unpayable war debts that caused the begger-thy-neighbor currency wars, which led to the trade wars, which led to soveriegn defaults. Because the fault was the bankers rather than efforts by the politicians to protect jobs, you never here about them.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:06 | 933001 AUD
AUD's picture

It wasn't the bankers who abrogated the gold standard leading to the accumulation of unpayable war debts.

The fault is with the government. No private banker can force you to accept his dubious credit.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:12 | 933068 Sabibaby
Sabibaby's picture

^

"No private banker can force you to accept his dubious credit"

Maybe no banker can, but what about the government?

Sure, maybe they can't either but it's still tough to buy stuff without credit regardless of how dubious YOU think it is.

I'm not disagreeing, that just seems to be the way it is. 

 

btw, this is my third captcha, do you think I could get a job at the SEC?

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 00:08 | 933746 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Wrong skillset. You need to be good at finding, and bookmarking the newest pr0n sites.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:42 | 932974 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

That'll teach 'em.  Those asian guys are a just bunch of Chinesey Bastards.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:11 | 933064 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Agreud. We should exploit the chink in their armor.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:20 | 933091 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Slope and change, baby!

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 21:12 | 933245 Biosci
Biosci's picture

The slant in your argument is obvious.

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 00:34 | 933804 snowball777
snowball777's picture

It's just a little yellow journalism.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 21:05 | 933230 Arch Duke Ferdinand
Arch Duke Ferdinand's picture

""That'll teach 'em.  Those asian guys are a just bunch of Chinesey Bastards.""

Chinese Espionage Techniques

(covered by Mish)....

http://seenoevilspeaknoevilhearnoevil.blogspot.com/2011/02/chinese-industrial-espionage.html

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:43 | 932977 StarvingLion
StarvingLion's picture

Senators Shumer and Casey are also planning legislation to punish the Chinese for unfair trade practices.

Hahahahaha...lets see, the traitors who set up shop over in China are going to punish themselves.  Okay!  Really, the question should be:

"When are the American Dolts (aka sheep, aka esteemed socialists) going to realize a war with China has been going on for many many years and only one side is fighting?"

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 21:05 | 933097 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

SmokeyQuinn: 

You're still just dragging more Red Herrings around on ZH to cover the stench of your Moronic articles. 

"By killing world trade with the Smoot-Hawley tariffs, the U.S. shot itself in the foot and contributed to worsening the Depression in Germany. This inadvertently led to the rise of Hitler. Talk about unintended consequences."

However, that is not the nature of the real financial world.

In fact, the Rockefellers, the Morgans, the Dillons and their minions are fleecing ordinary Americans of hundreds of millions of dollars in an orgy of financial scams many of which will be later uncovered in the long-suppressed Pecora Hearings.

Massive manipulation and speculation drives share prices to unsupportable levels. A few months before the Crash, word has it that the Rockefellers, Joe Kennedy and all the other scam artists quietly exit the market, selling when the artificially inflated prices are sky high.

On October 24th, the big banks, owned by the same unindicted co-conspirators, call the loans to the suckers. Invevitably, a selling panic ensues and the whole house of cards collapses. Gee, what a surprise.

Following the Crash, the boys who run the Federal Reserve contract the money supply, plunging the U.S. into the Great Depression and making it possible to snap up anything they want including farms, businesses and land for pennies on the dollar.

Not coincidentally, hundreds of small banks which provide the big boys with a bit of competition, are also driven to the wall and snapped up.

Does any of this sound familar today?

After the Nazis seize power in Germany with arms and financing supplied by the Rockefellers, the Harrimans, the Duponts and other members of the U.S. ruling class, with the help of their minions such as the Bush family, the Nazis begin their "Aryanization" program under which Jews are forced to sell their business assets for a small percentage of their true value to "Aryans".

Many American corporations are quick to cash in their markers with the Nazis by sticking their snouts in the "Aryanization" trough, none more avidly so than the Ford Motor Company under one the world's most rabid anti-Semites, Henry Ford.

..........................................................

"I detest that man, who hides one thing in the depths of his heart, and speaks forth another." … Homer

 

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 21:09 | 933238 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Ahh... the Mighty Quim

 

1." American exports to China are growing at a faster RATE that China's exports to the U.S. are growing".  A fine example of FIGURES LIE AND LIARS FIGURE !

What exactly are the absolute numbers ?  Oh, yeah, not given !

2. Any American exports to China will be technology that the Chinese have not yet stolen.

The only thing I can agree with in this article is that the same old American Political Whores are arguing over the price of selling their souls.

I watched a flipping idiot espousing the theory that unemployed Americans should be grateful that China is selling their crap so cheap to America; inferring that Americans are better being unemployed while buying cheap Made-in-China shit than being employed and having to purchase more expensive American-made goods !

PS. StarvingLion- this is likely the only war in history where the defeated nation gave the technology to enemy to build a Trojan Horse and let the enemy enter tariff-free to destroy the backbone of their country.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:43 | 932979 gwar5
gwar5's picture

We have complete idiots running our country. Schumer for sure would be there...

Chinese don't have to raise the value of the Yuan.

Bernankicide is crashing ours instead. Won't take much longer.

TPTB don't want American consumption to slow down growth in the East

Party is over. Time for the hangover.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:55 | 933020 StarvingLion
StarvingLion's picture

TPTB don't want American consumption to slow down growth in the East

No, its because the Muslim brotherhood isn't in China like the West.  We have to go overseas to fight the Muslim brotherhood so that the oil can go to China.  We get death out of the deal.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:02 | 933041 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

You mean this Schumer ?  :

http://biggovernment.com/amellon/2010/04/22/indymac-attack-did-schumer-p...

He seems pretty slick to me

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:19 | 933090 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Schumer - friend of Madoff. Typical corrupt Democrat like Obama.  Republicans may suck but the Democrats are pure evil like their Muslim leader.

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 00:37 | 933810 snowball777
snowball777's picture

That one definitely deserves a healthy does of Zyklon-B.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:45 | 932982 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

brazil unhappy with china too.

 

http://nakedempire.wordpress.com/

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:45 | 932988 equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

I'll take no 5 : dictators , wars , chaos.

 

Politicians will do whatever it takes to keep their job and entitlements. That means taking the easy option every time. That'll be blaming Ching-chong-chinaman for Joe 6 Packs problems.

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 00:38 | 933812 snowball777
snowball777's picture

While making Joe's sixer more expensive than Guinness.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:46 | 932989 fragrantdingleberry
fragrantdingleberry's picture

Confucious say, "Man who jizz in cash register come into money."

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:50 | 932992 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

You know, life was not so bad for the 75% or so who managed to keep their jobs during the Great Depression.  To make an omlette, you need to break a few eggs ... in this case, accepting the "new normal" and keeping your head down as you push the grindstone will get you through while the other poor slobs out there are suffering a fate worse than ours.

We were going to have this problem anyway as more and more human capital became redundant in the face of advances in technology, productivity, and international competition, so it is better that we get this re-adjustment out of the way now. 

Now, what to do with them??? World seems to need more rice these days, so how about something like what Cambodia tried in the 70's ....

 

 

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:15 | 933076 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Elect Pol Pot and have him murder about 43 million people on food stamps?

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 00:42 | 933818 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Send em on P-boats up the Yangtze...apocalypse now style.

I think this is about Bernanke and QE...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAixFYnDh4

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:47 | 932993 StarvingLion
StarvingLion's picture

middle classes who shop at Walmart

Hahahaha...another one.  This guy is the best stand up comedian since Carlin. 

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:51 | 933005 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Our congress definitely needs education on smoot howley. The bottom line is that the yuan needs to go up 20 percent. I am all in favor of accepting adam smith's subsidized trade gifts from china but it is only in our interest to do so if china plans to give us these free gifts forever which they dont. I think the entire world is sick of chinese poison and intellectual theft and undervalued currency. We may need to risk a trade war and continue to pay them in ever cheapening dollars in order to get them to play fair. Most of the rest of the world seems to be with us on this and the trade war may be isolated to china as others join us with their list of grievances against china too.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:03 | 933043 StarvingLion
StarvingLion's picture

I think the entire world is sick of chinese poison and intellectual theft and undervalued currency.

Yep, I took one look at Dr. Oz's audience today and thats exactly what those livestock (uh people) are thinking.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:38 | 933154 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

LOL - yup, beef on the hoof say "mooo", not: "un-peg yer stinkin' currency"

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:54 | 933016 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Yes I am well aware of the trade imbalance spreads, and put a fork up Cramer. I saw him in perfect the blueberry waffle section last weekend.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:57 | 933025 RonnieColeman
RonnieColeman's picture

Correct me if I'm wrong, but he is arguing against protectionism but also rails against free trade and "shipping jobs overseas". Outsourcing and offshoring is part of free trade and disallowing that would be a form of protectionism. Low prices at walmart are a direct result of free trade, and if we use protectionism to keep inefficient businesses afloat we would be doing exactly what the morons in Congress are doing. I'm all for small businesses, but you still have to be competitive in some way (perhaps not on price)

Quotas/tarriffs/protectionism = bad, in all of its forms. This guy needs to at least be consistent in his thesis

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:19 | 933087 StarvingLion
StarvingLion's picture

I'm all for small businesses, ...

Buddy, all small business does is burn oil less efficiently.  It has no reason to exist at all in your ideological world. 

Efficiency Efficiency Efficiency...you slaves are so brainwashed, ...now I'm off to my small business to ship 1 case of ketchup 40 miles to Hicksville, Usa

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:24 | 933112 RonnieColeman
RonnieColeman's picture

The point of a capitalist economy is that it maximizes efficiency (as much as possible). If you dont want efficiency then I take it you are a fan of government bailouts as well, because clearly thats about as inefficient as it gets

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 21:35 | 933285 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Efficiency in economics is a concept stolen from engineering. It is output over input.

Since America has "outsourced" its output, I guess, for you, we have given up on the concept of efficiency.

P.S. Let me know what you think America's long term strategy is by sending jobs to their Chinese Fascist Enemy ? Are we better off now, will we be better off in another decade ?

What will you say to your children and grandchildren when the country no longer adds any value ? Are you going to tell them its been a hell of a ride.  The nation produces nothing (ergo no output) and employs no one (ergo no input).  Ummm.... what is the measure of efficiency of zero divided by zero ??

 

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 00:48 | 933827 snowball777
snowball777's picture

The point of a capitalist economy is that it maximizes efficiency

 

The efficient...

- exploitation of cheap labor

- squandering of finite resources

- redistribution of capital UP the pyramid

Now get your ass back on that grindstone slave. Massa says breaktime's over.

 

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 21:24 | 933271 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Ronnie 

Think again. Chinese shit is cheap because there are no environmental laws, the government grants fully serviced land for free, the "employees" are slaves or indentured servants, the ideas and technology were gifted by Corporate America to China or stolen, there are no payroll taxes, OSHA, no state taxes, and no Health Insurance nor Social Security Taxes.

Oh, Yeah and then the Chinese arbitrarily peg the yuan at a low level and prevent it from floating; providing yet another subsidy.

And last but not least the Chinese CHEAT on the quality of everything. Lead paint on children's toys and sulfur-laced drywall are but a few of their favorite tricks. No American government has yet to divulge how many people have lost their lives over shoddy electrical cords, lights and equipment.

Naturally, to mention any of this in Public, the Chinese paid-for Apologists whip out the Race Card.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 19:57 | 933026 RonnieColeman
RonnieColeman's picture

double post, my bad

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:03 | 933044 Misean
Misean's picture

Just what this country needs, action by the most over priced group of idiots on earth.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:09 | 933053 StarvingLion
StarvingLion's picture

Go to this retards website and try and argue that the trade problem is rooted in how the monetary system has evolved.  He will label you a conspiracy nut and delete your message.  This fucking country is full of livestock who fell off a truck. 

http://petemurphy.wordpress.com/

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:09 | 933055 Bill Lumbergh
Bill Lumbergh's picture

For anyone needing a refresher on this legislation, look no further than Ferris Bueller's Day Off:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxPVyieptwA

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:10 | 933060 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

So far, the market has not yet taken this news as negative.

I keep looking for reasons to short, or look for follow through from Friday's "distribution day".

But I can't find any yet.

NYSE Summation Index has turned back up, believe it or not.

http://stockcharts.com/charts/indices/McSumNYSE.html

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:29 | 933125 Rainman
Rainman's picture

......and the old DJIA  point was just 10 without a bust, now we look for a 12 in the center board. You keep moving the dice til you boxcar, Robo. You can do it.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:44 | 933171 william the bastard
william the bastard's picture

Might as well play fot it to come the hard way cause when it does it's gonna be a trip whopper with cheese loaded.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:25 | 933113 chet
chet's picture

Im confused by posts which argue against protectionism and then complain about the following:

"We chose to support “free trade” legislation that allowed corporate CEOs to gut our industrial base and ship good-paying jobs to China, while filling the pockets of these executives with millions."

"We chose low prices at Walmart over small-business owners and sustainable domestic production of goods."

How would you prevent those things except with protectionism?  So you're against tariffs, but for reneging on free trade agreements?

I don't get what specifically such a person is really arguing for.

Personally, I understand why protectionism is bad, and what happened in the 1930's, but I'd like to do SOMETHING about the status quo with China.  Right now I feel like we're playing a game of dodge ball where we just stand there with our hands at our side while they bean us in the face.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 20:59 | 933209 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

It is very difficult to do business in this country today. Major capital outlays for plant and equipment come down to more than simply American labor costs. I was in the board room of many fortune 100 companies when decisions were being made. Capricious EPA rules, legal environment ( law suits over gender discrimination, race discrimination, product liability, workman compensation, unemployment compensation, union labor board requirements, etc.) ever changing federal, state and local requirements, mandates, fees and taxes, constantly changing architectural and building codes, OSHA regulations that do little to protect workers, etc etc etc. all factor into the decision. Also, the US has a split labor force personality. Incredibly skilled, motivated and industrious people AND some of the most unskilled, unproductive, unmotivated, illiterate human beings around. Couple that with making sure products are close to the regional markets and that most companies don't want to compete for commodity products with tight margins and subject to price .vs. Quality decisions by consumers (that usually choose price) and one finds that most of this protectonist hogwash is full of hot air.

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 21:44 | 933350 Kayman
Kayman's picture

SE

Then Congress needs to pass legislation that requires China to provide the same employment standards and environmental standards required by American Companies, otherwise an equalizing tariff would apply.

It is the height of Hypocrisy that the American environmental movement sits on its hands while the biggest polluter in the world dumps its products into the American market. 

Fri, 02/04/2011 - 04:53 | 933753 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Kayman,

 

I think congress needs to get the heck out of the way.   As for the 'American Environmental movement', I don't really know of one.   Most of these folks (some of whom I know)  are funded by European Unions and leftist organizations as well as Soviet Communist (I guess now now ex-soviet Communists) as well as American leftists/socialists/communists that really couldn't give a rats ass about the environment.  Their agenda lies elsewhere.   You can divine this by direct observation of this movement's conflicting messages and documented litigation in various federal and state courts.

 

But reading your posts - my guess is you probably know this first hand or are a deluded fellow traveller

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 21:05 | 933229 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

the time traveling tariff returns!

Thu, 02/03/2011 - 21:08 | 933239 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

I'm so glad everyone accepts their work schedule. How many fuckin breaks do they have? Christmas break, new years break Beginning of Feb break or they just never returned after the shooting. If they don't give a shit and no one else seems to then give me my gold and land and fuck it all....

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