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Guest Post: Those Who Break The Law Must Be Punished Accordingly…
Submitted by Simon Black of The Sovereign Man
Those who break the law must be punished accordingly…
One of the things that’s really great about Panama is how open the
country is to foreigners. All nationalities are welcome in Panama, and
if you spend any time on the ground, you’ll quickly find people from
six continents and dozens of countries.
Panama is an example of how I see governments moving in the future–
like Singapore, Chile, Hong Kong, and may others, Panama is the kind of
place that seeks to attract foreigners, to compete for them by
providing a number of incentives. Panama does this most pointedly with
its retirement ‘pensionado’ program, but there are a number of other
such programs. In fact, the country’s immigration law has so many
different categories, it’s possible for just about everyone to find a
way to move here.
In other places, immigration is unfortunately a four letter word. The
borderless Schengen area in Europe is on the verge of disintegration as
a number of countries in the region begin to put up border checkpoints
to restrict the free movement of people (and capital).
In the United States, the government has been eager to show that it’s
not slacking on the illegal immigration issue. The result has been an
increase in the size and scope of its persecution against “undocumented
workers” as well as the businesses which hire them. I can just
imagine the conversations within the hallowed halls of government:
“those who break the law must be punished accordingly…”
Help! Robbery in progress! (source: Tom Tingle/The Arizona Republic)
But this begs the question: what kind of laws—and hence what kind of nation—are we talking about?
Whenever the only defense of a policy is “it’s the law”, it’s
worthwhile considering whether that policy is, in fact, ethical. After
all, it was perfectly legal for one human being to own another for much
of history. Legality certainly is not the same as morality, and
politicians have a bad tendency to conflate the two.
One of the chief arguments against free immigration is that old song
about “stealing jobs.” It amazes me that some people still believe this.
When you patrol borders and restrict the flow of people who are happy
to work hard for less money, this is really no different than wage and
price controls. Anyone with even the most basic understanding of
economics can realize that such practices build inefficiencies into the
system– companies who pay more for labor pass these costs on to
consumers, low skill workers have less competition (hence incentive) to
learn new skills and move up the labor food chain.
Most of all, in the undocumented labor world, the government isn’t
able to take its fair share of the pie. Among undocumented workers,
there are no tax withholdings, no payroll deductions, no retirement
plans to regulate, no medical plans to enforce. I suspect this is the
true reason behind the politicians’ “stealing jobs” argument.
Another argument against free immigration is that foreigners
‘unfairly’ receive benefits. But the problem herein lies in the
existence of public benefits in the first place. Does a German do
backflips in the street when s/he pays taxes so that another German can
have free healthcare? Do Canadians enjoy subsidizing education for other
Canadians? Do Americans swell with pride when they pay their taxes,
hoping that the money goes to pay some other American’s mortgage?
This is utter nonsense, and the degree to which one can voice the
“immigrants unfairly receive benefits” argument is directly proportional
to the level of socialist redistribution in a country… again, not
exactly ideal for economic growth.
Then there’s the argument linking immigration and crime. Frankly this
is strictly a criminal matter, not an immigration one. Saying that
immigrants are more prone to crime makes about as much sense as saying
any particular group—young, poor black males…older, white Wall Street
types…people with surnames ending in vowels—is more prone to crime.
The nearly 300 illegal immigrants in Porstvile, Iowa, sent to federal
prison in 2008 didn’t rob or rape or kill anybody. They didn’t despoil
anyone’s property. Their only crime was working in an arbitrary
geopolitical designation without having begged and waited for the proper
political sanctions. The family owners of the business as well as
their accountant now face 80 years in federal prison. They are guilty of
no violence, only of having hired people that a centralized agency
didn’t approve of beforehand.
Countries, states, and provinces that persecute business and people
in this manner are the kind you want to avoid. A nation that tries to
criminalize more and more aspects of people’s lives—what they put in
their own bodies, where they can live, whom they can hire—is a nation
that will see economic decline to go along with decaying liberty and the
increasing number of lives destroyed by the enforcement of unjust
laws.
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LOL. Sorry to say, but I think you've hit the nail on the head.
Oh god, another whiny bitchy pointless GW on ZH.
Please, not two of 'em.
United States stakeholders/shareholders decide who gets in. That's not a decision for foreigners.
Our ball. Our bat.
Try to forcefully take it - and you'll be beaten.
Don't like it? Tough.
Looks like that q-2 report for Huff Post and AOLOOSERS is flowing in the ( Fantastic well learned/ed Z/H Posters are touching The ( Touche')
Earlier in the thread I posted the following and was junked for it. Would anybody whos does not agree with this care to reply, instead of junking?
I didn't junk you but your initial assumptions are unsubstantiated.
1-3 are correct however
right on.
Is anyone else moving with me to Chile to live in Simon's community?
Depends. 6 months ago Simon's community was going to be in Panama. Six months from now it might be somewhere else again. How many times do you want to move?
Actually, I would like to get a place overseas, but I don't know that it would be with his group.
Pucon, Chile or Bariloche, Argentina seem pretty cool. 1,000 square foot house will run you 100-200k american, and they are built very well. You can afford to go skiing again, like you could with your parents when you were a kid. You can afford Filet Mignon and good wine for dinner, like you could with your parents when you were a kid. Caveats: unlike the bullshit Simon is sprouting in this article (normally he's very astute I am bummed), you will need -money- to move there and get residency. You will also be -required- to learn spanish or everyone will hate you and ignore you. You cannot show up with your dog and a bunch of Grateful Dead and Phish bootlegs and get residency. The Further Tour however is still accepting applications.
That is insane housing prices.
I am in a good neighborhood in northwest arkansas with 3300 square feet heated and cooled, a 30,000 gallon swimming pool, and four car garage for 260,000 dollars.
Here is a search for property in Bariloche, Argentina. http://www.jfestate.com/index.php?idmenu=20&prop1country=&prop1Txt=baril...
This would be my dream house, 1130 sq. feet for $105,000, built like any million dollar dream house is in Lake Tahoe, CA: http://www.jfestate.com/index.php?idmenu=21&procode=20494
I personally think the prices are cheap, this is a lake easily as beautiful as Lake Tahoe, next to the best ski resort in Argentina. As such, prices will reflect the high demand for vacation rentals in the summer and winter, same as Lake Tahoe. I can always buy something bigger down the road, but if this is a starter house, someone needs to kick me, I must be dreaming.
Keep in mind that Pucon, Chile and Bariloche, Argentina are number one vacation destinations for each country, on one of the largest lakes in each prospective country, one needs to be prudent where one buys property. Although Arkansas is pretty, please no offense, not the number one destination for vacations. And yes real estate is volatile, but not in countries that require 100% cash for purchases. If anything is stifles growth, but guarantees that any growth that occurs is 100% organic, and there to stay, not to mention saving your country from a real estate bubble implosion. I'd love to hear what you think of the prices within this list tho. Cheers.
that guy is a used car salesman-fuckin-mexican..
fuck him and his $100 bucks a foot in a 3rd world country!
as broke as they are they should learn some American! maybe they would get better tips!
Quite funny! The sad part is you're serious, but anyhoooo, try looking at the links for houses I posted and let me know if you'd live on Lake Tahoe for those prices. If you look at the pictures of the inside of these peoples homes, you would see they are just like yours. Maybe even better than alot of people I know personally. In fact, they may have better pride of ownership than a lot of my next door neighbors, if the pictures are correct. Seeing as though we are closing 70 state parks in California, and I don't see Chile or Argentina closing any parks anytime soon, you may need to rephrase who is 3rd world.
Monte Carlo seems like the most appealing place to relocate -- if you can afford it.
Old..
Small..
Expensive..
if you have a billion plus and it will be a primary residence you can afford to live well there..
The nearly 300 illegal immigrants in Porstvile, Iowa, sent to federal prison in 2008 did’t rob or rape or kill anybody. They did’t despoil anyone’s property. Their only crime was working in an arbitrary geopolitical designation without having begged and waited for the proper political sanctions. The family owners of the business as well as their accountant now face 80 years in federal prison. They are guilty of no violence, only of having hired people that a centralized agency did’t approve of beforehand.
Countries, states, and provinces that persecute business and people in this manner are the kind you want to avoid. A nation that tries to criminalize more and more aspects of people’s lives—what they put in their own bodies, where they can live, whom they can hire—is a nation that will see economic decline to go along with decaying liberty and the increasing number of lives destroyed by the enforcement of unjust laws.
I call BS......................
LIVE with it for a while.PAY for them a while.
Illegals cost the USA Multiple billions of dollars a year, while most pay no taxes except SS/MC/MA.with fake I.D.'s.
Just ONE example, in Dallas Texas in tax yr 2008, illegals cost ONE county hospital 700 million dollars in noncollectable bills.
Way past time for this.............
I am ALL for Legal Immigration,if I break nay laws and get caught my ass pays.
Why should illegals get a pass?.
In (I think) Georgia a year or so ago, a few poultry ops got raided,90% illegals working for below min wage.
Once gone, the chicken farms had to hire locals,who had been relegated to DQ,WalMart,Target type jobs.
They went to work(back to work) at the farms, and picked up a $2.00 an hour raise immediately.
So much for Americans won't do jobs illegals will.
This article, and these people are one of the maybe DOZEN examples you can come up, with.It sure hasn't been this way for the last 100yrs.
Also, screw the putting the non felons in prison, DEPORT them, costs more to care for them in US prisons than to leave them loose.
nice cherrypick!
What about the 300 who DID rob, rape, or kill somebody?
Laws are laws. Just because fuckers like Congress and banksters get away with breaking them does not mean that everybody should.
I would rather jail the bankers!
And don't forget the Jews.
I have to laugh at these US-firsters busy defending the current fascist regime run by a Muslim criminal of the first order. The US is finished! Every Third World country will be mocking the US and its luckless citizens in coming decades. I'll be in Uruguay laughing my ass off as the US turns into the toilet bowl of the world. You got it coming, morons!
I am not defending those bstds, I hate their guts.
My post above is but ONE example of why we are in the shape we're in.Glad your going to Uraguay, stay there.
Learn to spell! Good example of why products of the US educational system are finished. You will make good slaves for your Chinese masters - lick their boots!
I'm very happy Tyler posted this article here, since I really didn't want to sign up to sovereign man just to tell Simon that he's full of shit. I normally love what Simon has to say, and am seriously planning to look at property in Pucon, Chile or Barlioche, Argentina (yes I know, lots of corruption, look at some pictures and get back to me), thanks in decent part to what he had to say. But this article is complete bullshit. Try moving to Chile and living there without legal residency and asking for any help from the government, at all. I double dog dare you. The reason Chile is such a great country is precisely because they kick out a huge influx of illiterates from Bolivia, Peru and Brazil. Chileans have a national identity precisely because they are so hardcore about giving people residency, unless they have a decent bank account or married a local. No exceptions. America is dying to indifference. This indifference is being fomented of course. This indifference to each other is precisely because we have no national identity, and the mexicans who work with me exactly two blocks from Meg Whitmans glorious Ebay Campus have absolutely --no-- fucking intention of ever learning english. Try living in Argentina or Chile without speaking spanish. You'll get absolutely nowhere, and they aren't going to cater to you and try to speak english. You'd never make it one year down there without speaking spanish. Here's a great article talking about how a shitload of bystanders in Alameda, CA along with firefighters and police watched a guy drown yards from the shore, speaking of indifference:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news%2Flocal%2Feast_bay&id=8161285
And they found the 20-40 grand to train 16 people how to wade in the water (40 grand to train 16 people.... nice).
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=8162563
So I call complete bullshit Simon, Chile definitely doesn't let broke people migrate there, and the people that do migrate to Chile certainly don't wave American flags all over their car and talk about how they can't wait to earn some money and go retire in America. Which is why Chile is doing so well.
I go to Central America a lot and those countries take their immigration very seriously, as they should, to protect their sovereignty. Most you who travel know that you must have your passport and other docs (or copy) on you at all times in countries around the world. And, if you look like a gringo you're gonna get asked for your papers and shook down for a bribe.
Why shouldn't the USA expect papers to be produced upon request as the law has required for 60 years? No other country allows the uncontrolled influx of economic refugees that we do -- we only ask that they come here legally. Proof it is politically motivated to change the liberal democraphic for elections -- our government religiously throws out all the foreign university graduate students over the limit. Bill Gates has been pounding the table in congress for years to get them to up the limit. We need the brain power to stay here, we don't care where they come from or what color they are.
Lee Kuan Yew -- "It is absurd for America to think it can rebuild it's economy with millions of fruit pickers."
The Mexican president lecturing congress and America on our immigration policies was the height of hypocrisy. Mexico has one of the worst immigration abuse records in the hemisphere. And laws for gringos moving to Mexico are strictly enforced, all are deportable offenses, and the first offense can have 2 year jail term; 2nd offense is 10 years in jail. They include:
-must have clean health record
-must have clean criminal record
-must have proof of adequate money to support yourself
-must enter through proper port of entry
-must carry proper documentation with you
-forbidden to participate in political demonstrations
-forbidden to be politically active
-Regardless, can be deported at any time if the government deems the demogrpahic shift has become too white
-Law allows, and encourages, Mexican citizens to catch and hold for police anyone who might be an illegal
In Costa Rica, a guy told me he was going to the USA and was going to intentionally over stay his visit. Once there he was going to sign up for AIDS treatment. He said they wouldn't give it to him in CR. So he was going to the US because the laws have changed and they could not deport him once he started treatment. You can't blame the guy for trying to stay alive, but this is the kind of bullshit that is going on.
The Muriel Boatlift from Cuba to Florida caused a mini panic, with refugee camps, when the spectable of 248,000 Cubans riding in makeshift boats were cast off by Fidel Castro between May--October, 1980. Well, now we have twice that number of Mexicans and other nationalities illegally just coming into AZ every year, and it's being encouraged.
Perhaps if they didnt use them as a dodge against hiring US citizens, perhaps there wouldn't be this size of a problem. Enforce the borders so that legal immigrants don't get mixed up with the illegal ones.This piece of trash on zerohedge?
YouTube - Deportee (Plane wreck at Los Gatos) - The Highwaymen
Uruguay is just as easy on caucasian immigration. They are cosmopolitan, laid back, and nowhere near the drug trade.
It is reminiscent of a genteel colonial past. If you want a kinder gentler version of panama try uruguay. It is also prettier and not as many sharp elbows.
Simon Black.......
If laws are not enforced anymore...... then I want your gold and women NOW.
What part of illegal do you NOT understand. Don't like it ? Change the law..PUD.
This is one of the more suckier articles on ZH.
Think about it, most immigrants are used and abused, pressed into serfdom. I don't see anything good about having these people come over here so they can pick turnips from twilight until sunset. Then we who reside here legally, end up paying, through our taxes, the cost of living that their oh so benevolent employers dont pay. You really think they have medical insurance from their employers? Huh? Who really benefits from this? Its all about über-rich who use them for cheap almost slavish labor. Then the politicians come in from both sides and pander to them, promising them a slice of the american dream, and other cliche ridden platitudes ad infinitum. Then in the end, us citizens to sweeten the deal by subsidizing their food, clothing and shelter, while they are being used, lied to and eventually victimized, ending up in some shanty town slum when the economy tanks.
Screw this. Dont think youre doing them any favors standing in support of 'the poor undocumented' workers. Youre either a fool or a tool. Pick one.
You do realise that it is in part because of the threat of deportation due to immigration laws, that some employers can exploit these "slaves"? Of course, you're right that you, the taxpayer, pay for these people at the moment in some cases. However... the issue lies at the heart of the welfare/warfare state, NOT immigration. I'd rather that it were abolished.
Not like you don't pay for domestic tax leeches too. Are you advocating that they be deported? Are they somehow more uniquely entitled to welfare by virtue of being born in some arbitrary location? No. Why single out immigrants, then? Focus on the actual problem.
Brazilian girls....yes, everyone else stay home and have a revolution
so you can build a real free country like the USA,
Oh, er' nevermind, a Banana republic, all the same now?
This topic may be older than some of you when agrarian cultures were bulldozed for so called progress in the seventy's plan to reestablish growth after the 1968 recession. Simple as it is you reap what you sow. Thing back when 400 acre farms could not compete any more in the States you missed with Nixon. Older issues linger on so with the so called growth cool aid from the beltway. Impossible to convey in a paragraph on the linkages from another point of view. Growth equals consequences and even from the mid sixty's when the tax rate was elavated to absurb levels capital left and social acrimony was elavated as I watched some city burn real time a few years later. The numbers are there but the time to convey properly is also true. Seymour Melman, Our Depleted Society (Holt, Rinehart & Windston, 1965). Full understanding of the realities of deindustrialization. Chief among them is the post-war myth of a post-industrial society. In fact deterioration in the production competence of U.S. industries had been well under way since 1960 and was reported in some detail by 1965. I should of just conveyed effective tax rates and capital movements you missed. Meanwhile we are running flat out so earnings will exceed analyst expectations. You are being decieved. America ceased to exist as Eisenhower warned you. Historical amnesia is in essence it is that attitudes aren’t taught, they’re caught.
With US structural unemployment reaching that of other European Socialist states, I think an open borders policy is just what the doctor ordered;) And free Obamacare to boot.........
Biggest pile of Shite I ever read on ZH.
Come to Northern England and I'll introduce you to the result of an open border policy.
Illeagal Immigrants (sorry, undocumented workers) all just happily work at mom and pop resturants and do no harm at all. What a load of crap! We just had a policmen killed here in Houston by a drunk illegal alien. They are killing many tradesmen here in Texas because they will do anything for nothing. How do they do it? The trash left over from a job gets dumped by the side of the road. They don't pay for permits and liscenses (oh well if your house burns down). The floor buffing machine? Stolen. Other then that, they charge the same price that I do. I've seen it all first hand. But I also laugh when I hear from the college software programer crying in their beer as they are now unemployed due to outsorcing to India etc. Guess who they used to have do their lawns and grunt work in their fancy new house; you guessed it. I knew a contractor that used illegal labor. He got a nail shot through his hand. One crashed his work truck and fled ($6,000 that cost), and another threatened to burn down the work sight if he didn't get more money. Boy did he learn his lesson. Illegal immigration is not a victimless crime. I'd love to see a lawsuit against the government by the widow of the police office murdered in his own patrol car last year by an illegal alien who was deported 4 times before. What if tens of thousands of Americans sued the fed gov in court who have been victimized by the govs joke of a border policy?
AND ONE MORE THING ABOUT THOSE WHO SAY THAT THEY DO JOBS NO ONE ELSE WILL DO. WHO'S PICKING THE APPLES IN BELGIUM, HARVESTING THE WHEAT IN ITALY, AND HARVESTING THE GRAPES IN FRANCE? Citizens from those countries. Tyson food got pinched for illegal labor and lost 150 workers in Oklohoma. The positions were filled in three days, but at $2 per hour increase and pay.
Now I ask, who's pocket was that money going into before that? What political party do you think the CEO of Tyson food belongs to?
That is all.