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Guest Post: A Thought Experiment: Iran
Submitted by Gonzalo Lira
A
Thought Experiment: Iran
A whole bunch of American ships are headed to Iran, including one
aircraft carrier. Some claim this
deployment is “normal”, while others think it
might be the first move in a U.S. offensive against Iran, either
actual or diplomatic.
aircraft carrier. Some claim this
deployment is “normal”, while others think it
might be the first move in a U.S. offensive against Iran, either
actual or diplomatic.
From the Iranians’ point
of view, there’s only one way to look at this deployment: As another
provocation.
of view, there’s only one way to look at this deployment: As another
provocation.
American leadership—educated at
the best schools and colleges, multi-cultural up the wazoo—don’t have a
clue why Iranians feel besieged. They have no idea why Iran acts the way
it does. They don’t even realize that they don’t understand Iran’s
motivations.
the best schools and colleges, multi-cultural up the wazoo—don’t have a
clue why Iranians feel besieged. They have no idea why Iran acts the way
it does. They don’t even realize that they don’t understand Iran’s
motivations.
There has been a complete lack of
imagination, in America’s dealings with Iran—and that failure of
imagination is why things are so fucked up in the Middle East. (Is there
any other way to characterize the whole mess? False politesse does not
capture the sheer fucked-up-edness of the situation.)
imagination, in America’s dealings with Iran—and that failure of
imagination is why things are so fucked up in the Middle East. (Is there
any other way to characterize the whole mess? False politesse does not
capture the sheer fucked-up-edness of the situation.)
Iran:
The failure of imagination has been Iran.
The failure of imagination has been Iran.
So
perhaps a thought experiment is in order—for once, let’s try looking at
the world from the Iranians’ point of view:
perhaps a thought experiment is in order—for once, let’s try looking at
the world from the Iranians’ point of view:
To
begin: Let’s imagine some obscure Brazilian terrorist attacks China, way
on the other side of the earth, literally. This Brazilian and his
minions blow up the Forbidden City and the Great Wall, in one fairly
spectacular terrorist attack.
We’re in America—this
shouldn’t involve us. But as a consequence of these terrorist attacks,
the Chinese—screaming for vengeance—deploy their sophisticated weapons
and their millions of soldiers, and invade Canada. Supposedly, this
Brazilian terrorist who attacked China is hiding out in the Great White
North—which is why the Chinese are invading Canada.
shouldn’t involve us. But as a consequence of these terrorist attacks,
the Chinese—screaming for vengeance—deploy their sophisticated weapons
and their millions of soldiers, and invade Canada. Supposedly, this
Brazilian terrorist who attacked China is hiding out in the Great White
North—which is why the Chinese are invading Canada.
We
Americans express genuine sympathy for the Chinese’ loss. We decide to
actually help the Chinese find the Brazilian terrorist! We even decide
to help
the Chinese with their conquest of Canada! That's how much we
repudiate this cowardly terrorist attack.
Americans express genuine sympathy for the Chinese’ loss. We decide to
actually help the Chinese find the Brazilian terrorist! We even decide
to help
the Chinese with their conquest of Canada! That's how much we
repudiate this cowardly terrorist attack.
But then, out
of the blue, the Chinese leader—in a carefully choreographed official
speech—declares our country part of an “axis of evil”. And with no
provocation on our part—indeed, after we have helped the Chinese
conquer Canada—they vow to wipe us out at the slightest provocation,
presumably with nuclear weapons.
of the blue, the Chinese leader—in a carefully choreographed official
speech—declares our country part of an “axis of evil”. And with no
provocation on our part—indeed, after we have helped the Chinese
conquer Canada—they vow to wipe us out at the slightest provocation,
presumably with nuclear weapons.
Then, the
Chinese start to claim that Mexico,
of all countries, was involved in the terrorist attacks against
China. Nevermind that the Mexican leadership hates and fears the
Brazilian terrorist. Nevermind that the Brazilian is an ultra-Catholic,
who hates and distrusts the Mexican leadership for being born-again
Baptists. Nevermind that there's no rhyme or reason for this alleged
collusion.
Chinese start to claim that Mexico,
of all countries, was involved in the terrorist attacks against
China. Nevermind that the Mexican leadership hates and fears the
Brazilian terrorist. Nevermind that the Brazilian is an ultra-Catholic,
who hates and distrusts the Mexican leadership for being born-again
Baptists. Nevermind that there's no rhyme or reason for this alleged
collusion.
The Chinese use trumped up and
extraordinarily dubious “evidence” to back up this claim of
collusion—they even claim that the Mexicans are developing WMD’s that
they intend to use on China, which stirs the Chinese populace into a
frenzy.
extraordinarily dubious “evidence” to back up this claim of
collusion—they even claim that the Mexicans are developing WMD’s that
they intend to use on China, which stirs the Chinese populace into a
frenzy.
Then, the Chinese illegally invade
Mexico, and outright occupy the country.
Mexico, and outright occupy the country.
Our nation
now finds itself besieged: There are a hundred-thousand odd Chinese
troops in Canada to the north, and another couple of hundred thousand
odd Chinese troops in Mexico to the south—all of them armed to the
teeth. And back in China, they're hysterically screaming for “regime
change in America”.
now finds itself besieged: There are a hundred-thousand odd Chinese
troops in Canada to the north, and another couple of hundred thousand
odd Chinese troops in Mexico to the south—all of them armed to the
teeth. And back in China, they're hysterically screaming for “regime
change in America”.
We in America know what
the Chinese really want—they want our food. We’re the world’s
breadbasket. And while China has plenty of food, they want more. They
are unwilling to make their citizens pay fair market prices for food—so
they want to capture our food, so they can feed their citizens at our
expense.
the Chinese really want—they want our food. We’re the world’s
breadbasket. And while China has plenty of food, they want more. They
are unwilling to make their citizens pay fair market prices for food—so
they want to capture our food, so they can feed their citizens at our
expense.
Meanwhile, Venezuela—a country one
tenth the size of the U.S. in terms of territory and population—is
hell-bent on regional hegemony. Venezuela consistently antagonizes and
provokes the U.S. with their undeclared nuclear weapons.
tenth the size of the U.S. in terms of territory and population—is
hell-bent on regional hegemony. Venezuela consistently antagonizes and
provokes the U.S. with their undeclared nuclear weapons.
But
what can we do? The Chinese support Venezuela with weapons, billions of
dollars in aid money, and the full weight of their political and
military power. Venezuela provokes us constantly, to the point of
stationing three of their submarines—loaded with nuclear missiles—not
fifty miles off America's East Coast. In easy striking distance of
America’s major cities.
what can we do? The Chinese support Venezuela with weapons, billions of
dollars in aid money, and the full weight of their political and
military power. Venezuela provokes us constantly, to the point of
stationing three of their submarines—loaded with nuclear missiles—not
fifty miles off America's East Coast. In easy striking distance of
America’s major cities.
Meanwhile, back in
China, the woman who is the current Foreign Secretary not only openly
hates us, she once said that even a minor skirmish with Venezuela would
result in the U.S. being "wiped off the face of the map"—meaning,
presumably, a nuclear response.
China, the woman who is the current Foreign Secretary not only openly
hates us, she once said that even a minor skirmish with Venezuela would
result in the U.S. being "wiped off the face of the map"—meaning,
presumably, a nuclear response.
We have no
nuclear weapons. But we do have a whole lot of hate for both China and
Venezuela—justifiable hatred.
nuclear weapons. But we do have a whole lot of hate for both China and
Venezuela—justifiable hatred.
America’s
history (in this thought experiment) is inextricably tied to China's
foreign policy. Back in 1953, China forcibly overthrew the
democratically elected government of Dwight Eisenhower, in a covert
operation known as Operation
Ajax.
history (in this thought experiment) is inextricably tied to China's
foreign policy. Back in 1953, China forcibly overthrew the
democratically elected government of Dwight Eisenhower, in a covert
operation known as Operation
Ajax.
Then, China installed their
puppet-dictator, Richard Nixon, who ruled for 25 years with an iron
fist, using the SAVAK—Nixon's
feared secret police, trained by Venezuela’s Mossad security agency,
and China’s own CIA.
puppet-dictator, Richard Nixon, who ruled for 25 years with an iron
fist, using the SAVAK—Nixon's
feared secret police, trained by Venezuela’s Mossad security agency,
and China’s own CIA.
China and Venezuela kept
the puppet-dictator Nixon in power for 25 years, using SAVAK to kidnap,
torture and kill American freedom-fighters. Great American men and women
were lost. People like Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Jesse
Jackson, Gloria Steinem, David Halberstam, Woodward & Bernstein, Bob
Dylan, Willie Nelson, Ray Charles, Paul Newman, Francis Ford Coppola,
Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell, Naom Chomsky, Jonas Salk, Harper Lee, even
poor Rosa Parks and countless others were all tortured and/or killed by
SAVAK, often with the assistance of Venezuela’s Mossad and China’s CIA.
the puppet-dictator Nixon in power for 25 years, using SAVAK to kidnap,
torture and kill American freedom-fighters. Great American men and women
were lost. People like Robert Kennedy, Martin Luther King, Jesse
Jackson, Gloria Steinem, David Halberstam, Woodward & Bernstein, Bob
Dylan, Willie Nelson, Ray Charles, Paul Newman, Francis Ford Coppola,
Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell, Naom Chomsky, Jonas Salk, Harper Lee, even
poor Rosa Parks and countless others were all tortured and/or killed by
SAVAK, often with the assistance of Venezuela’s Mossad and China’s CIA.
While
the flower of America was being tortured and killed, America’s
breadbasket was being raped by Chinese and Venezuelean interests—from
1953 to 1979, they took our food and didn't pay a dime for it. Or else
they “paid” for it by giving their puppet-dictator credit to buy Chinese
weapons—weapons which their puppet-dictator then used against American
citizens!
the flower of America was being tortured and killed, America’s
breadbasket was being raped by Chinese and Venezuelean interests—from
1953 to 1979, they took our food and didn't pay a dime for it. Or else
they “paid” for it by giving their puppet-dictator credit to buy Chinese
weapons—weapons which their puppet-dictator then used against American
citizens!
Finally, we Americans—after
tremendous struggles—managed to overthrow the Chinese puppet-dictator in
1979. (And where did the murderous bastard seek asylum? His
patron-state, of course—do we need any more evidence that he was their
marionette?)
tremendous struggles—managed to overthrow the Chinese puppet-dictator in
1979. (And where did the murderous bastard seek asylum? His
patron-state, of course—do we need any more evidence that he was their
marionette?)
China declared us a “rogue nation”
after we overthrew the dictator who had repressed us so horribly. Since
then, 30 years later, the Chinese have been consistently trying to
undermine our economy with sanctions and United Nations embargoes.
after we overthrew the dictator who had repressed us so horribly. Since
then, 30 years later, the Chinese have been consistently trying to
undermine our economy with sanctions and United Nations embargoes.
They’ve
succeeded, too—our economy is not a fraction of what it could have
been, had the Chinese not had this vendetta against us. They choke our
economy, while threatening us with their overwhelming military power,
and goad us with the Venezueleans just to annoy and humiliate us.
succeeded, too—our economy is not a fraction of what it could have
been, had the Chinese not had this vendetta against us. They choke our
economy, while threatening us with their overwhelming military power,
and goad us with the Venezueleans just to annoy and humiliate us.
All
because of our resources—the Chinese are so insane to possess what is
ours that they will do whatever is necessary to take it away. That is
why they hate us. That is why they have interfered unforgivably in our
history. That is why they want to destroy our country, and turn it into
their “protectorate”—so they can once again rape our land, and take away
what belongs to us, and to our children.
because of our resources—the Chinese are so insane to possess what is
ours that they will do whatever is necessary to take it away. That is
why they hate us. That is why they have interfered unforgivably in our
history. That is why they want to destroy our country, and turn it into
their “protectorate”—so they can once again rape our land, and take away
what belongs to us, and to our children.
They
openly say that they want a “Chinese-friendly regime change”. They say
they want “moderate Americans” to control our country—but the people
they refer to as “moderates” are people who worked for the bloody
dictator we overthrew. Our current leaders—members of the
America-First/America-Free party, good Mormons one and all—sometimes are
over-the-top, no one will deny it: Sometimes they say stupid things.
But we trust them. We know they are our representatives—not
Chinese puppets, like Nixon and his goons.
openly say that they want a “Chinese-friendly regime change”. They say
they want “moderate Americans” to control our country—but the people
they refer to as “moderates” are people who worked for the bloody
dictator we overthrew. Our current leaders—members of the
America-First/America-Free party, good Mormons one and all—sometimes are
over-the-top, no one will deny it: Sometimes they say stupid things.
But we trust them. We know they are our representatives—not
Chinese puppets, like Nixon and his goons.
The
Chinese claim that they invaded Canada and Mexico in order to
find this Brazilian terrorist—but with all their power, they still
haven't found him after almost ten years. Was there ever a terrorist? Or
was it a false-flag operation? Did the Chinese themselves blow up the
Forbidden City and the Great Wall, in order to have an excuse to invade
the North American continent? Some of their own people publicly believe
that the Chinese government staged the terrorist attacks as an excuse to
invade the region—that should tell us something.
Chinese claim that they invaded Canada and Mexico in order to
find this Brazilian terrorist—but with all their power, they still
haven't found him after almost ten years. Was there ever a terrorist? Or
was it a false-flag operation? Did the Chinese themselves blow up the
Forbidden City and the Great Wall, in order to have an excuse to invade
the North American continent? Some of their own people publicly believe
that the Chinese government staged the terrorist attacks as an excuse to
invade the region—that should tell us something.
The
Chinese plan to invade and/or destroy us—that is obvious. So we won't
give them the chance: Instead, we’ll help the Mexican and Canadian
insurgents. We’ll give them weapons and money, so we can buy time. Soon,
our scientists will develop nuclear weapons of our own: Then neither
the Chinese nor the despicable Venezueleans will ever again hold their
nuclear sword to our throats with impunity. Soon, we will be able to
strike back—and if they provoke us, we will strike back.
Even if it means our own destruction.
Chinese plan to invade and/or destroy us—that is obvious. So we won't
give them the chance: Instead, we’ll help the Mexican and Canadian
insurgents. We’ll give them weapons and money, so we can buy time. Soon,
our scientists will develop nuclear weapons of our own: Then neither
the Chinese nor the despicable Venezueleans will ever again hold their
nuclear sword to our throats with impunity. Soon, we will be able to
strike back—and if they provoke us, we will strike back.
Even if it means our own destruction.
After
all, it’s a thousand times better to die free than to live on your
knees. Living under the Chinese-controlled puppet-dictatorship taught us
that. We won't let it happen again.
all, it’s a thousand times better to die free than to live on your
knees. Living under the Chinese-controlled puppet-dictatorship taught us
that. We won't let it happen again.
Here ends
the thought experiment—but not the questions.
the thought experiment—but not the questions.
———————————
First
of all, the more you think through America’s provocations and
interference in Iran’s history, the more you can’t help but be impressed
by Iran’s self-control. They’ve played their cards much better than
either the U.S. or Israel.
of all, the more you think through America’s provocations and
interference in Iran’s history, the more you can’t help but be impressed
by Iran’s self-control. They’ve played their cards much better than
either the U.S. or Israel.
Precisely
because of all the foolish, pointless tauntings and provocations by the
U.S. and Israel, I think it’s likely that—regardless of what they
say—Iran is very busy trying to acquire nuclear weapons. Israel’s and
the U.S.’s nuclear taunting guarantees that the only thing that will
give Iran’s people and leadership peace of mind is a few dozen
nuclear-tipped rockets. And they will in all likelihood acquire them—one
way or another. Fear will drive them.
because of all the foolish, pointless tauntings and provocations by the
U.S. and Israel, I think it’s likely that—regardless of what they
say—Iran is very busy trying to acquire nuclear weapons. Israel’s and
the U.S.’s nuclear taunting guarantees that the only thing that will
give Iran’s people and leadership peace of mind is a few dozen
nuclear-tipped rockets. And they will in all likelihood acquire them—one
way or another. Fear will drive them.
For
now, Iran’s strategy of quietly but steadily fomenting insurgents in
Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine is the only sensible approach Iran can
take. It has to keep America pinned down in those two quagmires while it
develops nuclear weapons.
now, Iran’s strategy of quietly but steadily fomenting insurgents in
Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine is the only sensible approach Iran can
take. It has to keep America pinned down in those two quagmires while it
develops nuclear weapons.
Because that’s
Iran’s ultimate goal—obviously: From the point of view of Iran’s
leadership, any other strategy would be irresponsible and foolish. The
Iranian leadership want to protect their population from both the U.S.
and Israel. From Iran’s point of view, only the acquisition of nukes
guarantees their safety.
Iran’s ultimate goal—obviously: From the point of view of Iran’s
leadership, any other strategy would be irresponsible and foolish. The
Iranian leadership want to protect their population from both the U.S.
and Israel. From Iran’s point of view, only the acquisition of nukes
guarantees their safety.
However, a nuclear
Iran isn't a disaster—on the contrary: My own sense is, if and when Iran
actually acquires nuclear weapons, regional tension will paradoxically
ease—think India/Pakistan. And Iran is a far more stable country than
Pakistan, with none of the territorial ambitions or frictions.
Iran isn't a disaster—on the contrary: My own sense is, if and when Iran
actually acquires nuclear weapons, regional tension will paradoxically
ease—think India/Pakistan. And Iran is a far more stable country than
Pakistan, with none of the territorial ambitions or frictions.
If
and when Iran acquires nukes, the U.S. will realize it can’t fuck with
Iran anymore—it has to negotiate. The same conclusion will be arrived at
in Tel Aviv.
and when Iran acquires nukes, the U.S. will realize it can’t fuck with
Iran anymore—it has to negotiate. The same conclusion will be arrived at
in Tel Aviv.
The danger zone, I think, will
be that uncertain period before Iran for-sure has nuclear weapons—in
other words, the period we are living in now.
be that uncertain period before Iran for-sure has nuclear weapons—in
other words, the period we are living in now.
It
is conceivable that Israel will stupidly launch a pre-emptive strike,
in a misguided attempt to “protect Israel” from Iran acquiring nukes. In
fact, I would argue that this is a very possible outcome. This
pre-emptive strike will bring about a nuclear retaliation by
Iran—they’ll simply buy a few from Russia (which would be happy to sell
them, if Israel starts launching nukes helter-skelter), and that will be
that for Israel. Israel is smaller, and more concentrated. In any
nuclear war, Israel will lose.
is conceivable that Israel will stupidly launch a pre-emptive strike,
in a misguided attempt to “protect Israel” from Iran acquiring nukes. In
fact, I would argue that this is a very possible outcome. This
pre-emptive strike will bring about a nuclear retaliation by
Iran—they’ll simply buy a few from Russia (which would be happy to sell
them, if Israel starts launching nukes helter-skelter), and that will be
that for Israel. Israel is smaller, and more concentrated. In any
nuclear war, Israel will lose.
Now is the
danger-time. And it will be the Americans and the Israelis—not the
Iranians—who will pull the trigger on the regional suicide.
danger-time. And it will be the Americans and the Israelis—not the
Iranians—who will pull the trigger on the regional suicide.
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Is this the last leg of the sell off? http://3drives.blogspot.com/2010/06/how-can-i-be-bullish.html
hey Boilermaker, I'll pass the hat to send you "Major Kong" style. . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueuauKKjPZI
(by the way, you failed the "thought" part of the experiment, just sayin')
CA,
I'm afraid this type of article will strain all those 6th grade thinkers out there. Like you said, it was a thought experiment that clearly was too complicated. They apparently do put blinders on people as well as race horses.
Life gets too darn complicated when you apply "thought" to life's problems. Keep it simple stupid is the swan song of Neanderthals. Or should I say lock and load, might makes right and so on.
Empathy and understanding or any alternative points of view for that matter are to be avoided at all costs. Black and white is the only way to see the world. Oh, and ignorance is bliss and pass the Bud.
The narrow-mindedness and fear makes me angry. Got to go for a run.
Enjoy it before the military-industrial complex carpet bombs it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aD8ySqpcZlM
Thanks for that, I've never seen those sites before. We don't have such a rich cultural heritiage, the Native Americans didn't leave all that much.
aye CogDis, I know you're right, but damn! I had hoped for better 'round these parts. . .
seriously doubt any of these pro-war posters here are enlisted, nor have they been to any of the current, multiple war-fronts amrka is testing its massive weaponry on; nor will be they bringing their wounded, poisoned selves back to this country only to realise they'll not be receiving medical care in the future because this country HAS no real future, so yeah, fuck the maimed & poisoned "heroes", eh.
the meme is that these "othered" peoples are worth-less than an amrkn, so who cares? well, here's some news kids. . .
that's exactly how the sociopaths who are selling your futures feel about YOU.
As one of the enlisted, now 100% disabled veteran (talk about taxing future income potential) and poisoned with sarin, cyclosarin and mustard gas what many folks forget is that hospitality is a multi-layered responsibility shared by all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOgHBMujTCw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTRMZk-l_VY
Agreed. BTW did you know that Ozzy's DNA is being analyzed and sequenced in the hope of determining how his body was able to tolerate such large quantities of ingested toxins. Hopefully, this will yield some positive applications.
I wonder if Ozzy has kept up.... although I know no one can question his goodness at any of the chief pursuits of our age.
BTW, thanks for the junks folks. It's been much too long.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzIT67dBkSc
(credit to Dave Matthews Band, The Last Stop, linked above)
Miles Kendig, if I have offended you, I genuinely apologise. I know many men who have come back from "wars" this nation sends them off to fight, and then denies the debilitating effects of the chemicals used, supposedly on the "othered enemies" but that somehow manage to affect everyone, go figure. One of my greatest teachers (not in a skool-sense) suffered deeply from the effects of Agent Orange, and was denied proper healthcare for years - in the end he learned better ways to deal with his sufferings than allopathic meds, but it was the principle that soured me, that his pain and ailments were "not" from the poison he was subjected to. . .
and I read of kids returning from the current, endless wars, and all the toxins they're being subjected to that this country can't / won't admit to using, so instead tells them it's a "mental" problem - "chronic fatigue" or "gulf war syndrome" or whatever is the excuse du jour. . . and I see local people without jobs, talking of signing up to fight so they can have a wage, maybe "college funding" - and there's nothing one can tell them, y'know?
I'm sorry, it's crazy making for me. . . I wish you peace and support in your world, truly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4bCVoMCeYY&feature=related
Speaking of denial, this article is in deep.
Quite interestingly, the same author who pinned the gang aspect.
Yet, she failed to pin one specific feature of gangs.
A gang does not oppose actions because they think the action is wrong but because they think they should be the only ones to lead the actions.
They dont go after other gangs because they oppose corruption, racket, prostitution, extortion etc but because they want a monopoly on the actions. They dont want others to engage into behaviours they know as lucrative.
If China had a similar behaviour to the US, they would get punished on that ground. The US gang will try to prevent them from entering a lucrative course.
The US people perfectly understand what they are doing.
Junk! Because the US populace has no idea what is going on.
No offense taken or apology required while in the fight club ring of ideas. Keep 'em coming and know that I stand with ya on your exploration of the subject.
A mother's (and this fathers) cry:
"Is hate so deep
Must my baby's bones
This hungry fire feed?"
Smoke clouds roll in
The symphony of death
This is the last stop.
- Dave Matthews
When you are up to it... from someone that was on the scene.
http://neurophilosophy.wordpress.com/2007/05/18/exposure-to-sarin-may-ha...
http://www1.va.gov/RAC-GWVI/docs/Minutes_and_Agendas/Minutes_Feb2009_App...
http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/khamisiyah_iii/
Never forget that ideas are the greatest force known to humankind and those with ideas know this. peace
"I'm afraid this type of article will strain all those 6th grade thinkers out there."
CD, are you goin' postal?
Just trying to keep up with the village idiot.
Stick to your original game plan, much more becoming;-)
Quick -- over that way!
i can't believe the low ratings this article got .. i thought it was an awesome display of more evolved thought
bravo TD
err bravo GL
To :Cognitive Dissonance that little jerk
Earlier I politely mentioned it to be unseemly when you flaunt your self described intellectual superiority. Referring to the audience as "6th grade thinkers" is not helpful. Thanks in advance for your cooperation in rectifying this matter.
Regards,
Lucas Jackson
Heck, CD is giving far more credit than the MSM (and many "professions") do with their targeting of a 5th grade education level. For a great example look to WHCOS Rahm Emanuel and his use of language, both verbal and nonverbal for guidance.
Be well.
My apologies to you or anyone else on this thread if my comment offended you. It was uncalled for and I regret posting it.
Major Kong - drinker, gambler, womanizer, warmonger - I idolize the man.
Which of course makes you the village idiot.
Yes.
Glorious
Ignorance is bliss
until it's not!
I hope I die peacefully, like my grandfather. Not the way the people who were screaming in the back of his car did.
And if success is attained that last check to the undertaker will bounce
Amen, brother.
CUT!!!
Fucking phenomenal...
Now, let's do it again from the top. This time with more cowbell.
Couple of thoughts to bake into the "thought experiment"
1) Israel...Israel first introduced plans and scientists to build nuclear bombs into Iran. Under the Shah. Who encouraged them? The USA.
Who conducted the first PR efforts to educate Iranians on why they should have nuclear weapons?
2) What do you suppose the "thoughts" are of the Revolutionary Guards who own a part of or get a vig from 7o% of all non oil based companies in Iran? In effect its one giant kerestsu kleptocracy of less than 1% of the population that owns all the worthwhile enterprises...and all since 1979. Gee...that sounds vaguely evil and rotten and corrupt...and the USA had nothing to do with that. Sounds like meet the new boss same as the old boss. Sounds like that generation has no intention of losing money or power to any stinking will of the people stuff.
Thats part of your thought experiment from inside Iran as well.
3) Please look up the Mossadegh timeframe...and tell us the role the mullahs played in killing off the chances of Mossadegh through their direction of the street gangs and in the mullah directed and membership in assasination squads that went around knocking off the secular nationslists of Mossadegh's support.
Think that covering their tracks during that time has anything to do with the ever popular size of the role they assign to us in the demise of Mossadegh?
4) Please tell us which domestic opposition groups the mullahs had knocked off or knocked off one way or another from 1922 to 1979?
5) Please tell us how well the mullahs and Revolutionary Guards have done since 1979 as compared to the plight of the average person during that time?
Not so easy to conduct "thought experiments" when you are thinking about the world the way it really is.
The people who climb to the top of the wolf heaps in every part of the world....are wolves.
Now please tell us how successful every attempt to warm up or approach Iran differently has been?
Please tell us that it is possible to have a different kind of relationship with Iran ...based on the evidence you have accumulated that shows such a strategy would last, be welcome and likely succeed?
Oh...you mean have a thought experiment where like two parties have responsibility?
Personally, I do not think Iran seeks to enlarge or conquer other nations. I do not think they are a threat to anyone but Israel (through fellow Shites Hamas and Hezbollah)
But I also do not think they are remotely without tons of blame and purpose and corruption in the situation...and a small group within Iran and the mullahs profit very well from having constant external enemies...and ratchet up the demonization efforts in precise relation to when the common person goes through tougher economic times due to mismanagement and callousness of leadership
Yes, we are dumb. But yes their leaders are a mess and rotten as well.
imho, we should keep both things in mind and not dumb it down into a onesided morality play
"I do not think they are a threat to anyone but Israel"
Saudi Arabia probably doesn't agree with that assessment. It is reported that they are more concerned about Iran getting a nuclear device than Israel is.
Good point Richard and my miss. Thank you for elevating the discussion with the correction
I do think Iran and Saudi have both gone out of their way to avoid direct friction and a war of words
That said, the Sunni, Shite split is deeper than we often see mentioned in what passes for analysis and the Saudi's of course, depend on the Straights of Hormuz staying clear and open.
Off topic, it is interesting to read the anti Shite commentary over the years by both Zwarhiri and bin Laden. Iran and Al Queda are far from allies.
Lastly, I do think the author misses that inside Iran the Revolutionary Guards are far from monolithic and often act in quasi war lord fashion in regards to actions in Iraq and degree of sponsorship of Hamas and Hezbollah. The byzantine and unreliable to the outside world decision process means that to outsiders making and keeping deals with other Iran is a pretty slippery affair. Just ask the Russians and Turkesmenistani's about the long drawn out and confusing attempts to negotiate Caspain Basin Oil Reserve exploration and production rights with their good friends the Iranians
The very last thing the Saudis and Emirates
want is a Nuclear Iran. That shit doesn't
mix with an Arab Financial Center and
entertainment hub. uhhh green light !
Thank you for the added perspective, it is most welcome.
Boilermaker, I am preserving your comment as a quote here in my own, just to show what the various comments were responding to in your original odious comment.
Akak,
I'm interested in how you would handle things if you were POTUS?
To which things are you referring, Creosote? I am assuming you mean foreign policy.
A few things come readily to mind:
1) Immediate withdrawal of forces threatening Iran
2) Immediate withdrawal from Iraq and Afghanistan
3) Wind-down and medium-term withdrawal of all US forces from Europe, Japan and South Korea
4) Immediate cessation of all US military aid to Israel
5) Medium to long-term reorientation of all US military activity towards a purely defensive posture, rather than the overtly offensive and aggressively interventionist US foreign policy in place since WWII
Those are just a few thoughts that pop into my head at the moment.
Thanks
Assuming these events occurred, what, if any, would be an indication for military intervention other than a direct attack on the US?
Exactly.
Uh, the US had an isolationist policy until WWII: Look where that got us. Churchill's biggest fear was that he wouldn't be able to drag us into Europe's fuck-up.
The reason we stick our noses (and thumbs and dicks) into the rest of the world is because the rest of the world wouldn't leave us the fuck alone--and expected us to fix their problems.
Of course the bully always claims it was the other guy that wouldn't leave him alone.
And its always self defense for the warmonger. Always.
Relativism much? If so, let me point out that we self-defense mongers like to WIN, and generally this has resulted in increased freedom and prosperity, which are good things.
mmm. how's that "freedom and prosperity" workin' out for you TBT? and your family, and friends, and neighbours, etc. etc.
tell us what you've "won". . .
Increased freedom and prosperity? Try telling that to the people of Afghanistan or Iraq. I'm sure that any prosperity that is increased for us is dwarfed by the decrease in their own freedom and prosperity. Wars are not necessary. They all end in peace agreements. We can skip to that part without the killing. Unless, of course, you're going to declare war on a tactic like 'terrorisim' or a concept like 'drugs'; that way we can have a war forever!
Wow, what a massive oversimplification on both your parts. Double junk plus.
Perhaps. But neither you nor CogDis has offered a factual rebuttal.
It's the bankers' wars. The rest of us are fodder. The 20th century would have been much more quiet had the American people known what was being planned on Jekkyl Island.
The 4th of July is not a victory celebration. It's a declaration of war against tyranny. We as a society have forgotten that. So we are doomed.
Do you offer any facts/info that my assertion is incorrect?
Non intervention != isolation
+1
"Peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations – entangling alliances with none." ~ Thomas Jefferson
I'd like to be the voice of moderation here: Obama would like to withdraw from the entire Middle East and go golfing with Ahmadinejad. Bush 43 would probably have liked to bomb the shit out of the nuke development sites in Iran, then occupy the place for 50 years to turn it into America East.
I say let's meet in the middle, bomb the nuke development sites in Iran, but instead of occupying it, just send money for them to build golf courses over the rubble.
You are brainwashed idiot.
It is the USA and FDR who initiated the WWII together with J. Stalin. This is why American GI called it "the FDR war".
The British PM Chamberlain told to the US ambassador that FDR forced the WWII of Britain. Now, 70 years later, we are told a different story. As for British, they still refuse to open their WWII archives. I am curious why?
1922-1945: GERMANY. Averell Harriman travels to Berlin in 1922 and sets up the Berlin branch of W.A. Harriman & Co. under George Herbert Walker, father-in-law of Prescott Bush and longtime Harriman errand boy and front man.
Harriman makes an agreement with German steel mogul Fritz Thyssen to act as a conduit for Thyssen funds between the United States and Germany. The Harriman organization becomes joint owner and manager of Thyssen's banking operations outside of Germany.
Fritz Thyssen and his business partners are universally recognized as the most important German financiers of Adolf Hitler's takeover of Germany.
Thyssen begins financing Hitler and the Nazi Party in 1923.
In 1924, in the certain knowledge that there will be another world war, the Dulles brothers set up three banks for the Harrimans and their partners in the Hitler Project.
One is in Germany, one in New York and one in Holland.
The idea is a classic Dulles brothers shell game: whoever "wins" the war, the ownership of the assets of the Hitler Project organizers, vastly bloated by war profits, will be held in such a way that they can be retrieved afterwards via one of the three banks.
The Dulles brothers establish the Union Banking Corporation, as a unit in the Manhattan offices of W.A. Harriman & Co., interlocking with the Thyssen-owned Bank voor Handel en Scheepvaart in the Netherlands.
U.S. government investigators will later conclude that "the Union Banking Corporation has, since its inception, handled funds chiefly supplied to it through the Dutch bank by the Thyssen interests for American investment." The Dutch bank is the main conduit for money from Thyssen to Adolf Hitler and is also used to transfer American money to Hitler.
One of its jobs is to siphon cash from Union Banking Corporation in New York to Hitler to build the first Nazi headquarters, the Braunhaus in Munich. The Braunhaus will become the Nazi propaganda center for all of Germany.
Prescott Bush, grandfather of George W. Bush, is a part owner and directs the day-to-day operations of the Harriman/Rockefeller Union Banking Corporation. Thyssen, Standard Oil's German subsidiary and IG Farben all use the Union Banking Corporation to funnel vast quantities of money to the Nazis and to manage and conceal their American financial interests.
In 1926, Prescott Bush becomes vice-president of W.A. Harriman & Co. That same year, Wall Street banker Clarence Dillon, a friend of both Averell Harriman and Bush, sets up a new organization for Thyssen, prime sponsor of Adolf Hitler.
The new German Steel Trust, Germany's largest industrial corporation, is organized by Dillon, Read which provides the staggering sum of $70 million in cash. Dillon is an old crony of Prescott Bush's father Sam Bush from the happy and highly profitable arms dealing days of World War One.
Dillon, Read is guaranteed two or more directors on the board of the Trust. Among the Thyssen ventures is a steel mill in the Polish town of Oswieczimin the Silesian coal region.
Soon it will be better known as Auschwitz.
William H. Draper, Jr. is made Director, Vice-president and assistant treasurer of the German Credit and Investment Corporation which provides short-term loans and financial management tricks for Thyssen and the Steel Trust as it finances Hitler's takeover of Germany.
The Harriman-Rockefeller-Bush Nazi-front bank becomes an interlocking concern with the German Steel Trust.
After World War Two, Congressional investigators will probe the Thyssen interests, Union Banking Corporation and related Nazi units. The investigation will show that the Bush, Harriman and Dillon, Read-linked trust had produced the following percentages of total German national output during World War Two:
50.8% of Nazi Germany's pig iron,
41.4% of Nazi Germany's standard steel plate,
36.0% of Nazi Germany's heavy plate,
38.5% of Nazi Germany's galvanized sheet steel,
45.5% of Nazi Germany's pipes and tubes,
22.1% of Nazi Germany's wire and,
35.0% of Nazi Germany's explosives.
In 1937, Prescott Bush will hire Nazi finance guru and legal eagle Allen Dulles to further hide Thyssen’s Nazi accounts behind a cloud of legal smoke.
Hi mate, any chance you could post a link or book title on where we can find more on your post.
kind regards iwt
Get started right away with Russ Baker's "Family of Secrets".
Free e-book
George Bush: The Unauthorized Biographyhttp://tarpley.net/online-books/george-bush-the-unauthorized-biography/
By Webster Griffin Tarpley and Anton Chaitkin
The reason we stick our noses (and thumbs and dicks) into the rest of the world is because the rest of the world wouldn't leave us the fuck alone--and expected us to fix their problems.
lawdy, another "greta garbo" argument. . .
you might want to read some history books Postal, particularly ones outside the high school curriculum.
maybe start with the CIA.
[Edit] oh hell, save yourself some time and money, and just read DavidPierre's post above @ 22:28. . . seriously, there's enough truth there to collapse all your "learnings".
I have. Military history is a hobby.
then I genuinely don't understand where your opinion I quoted above originates from. . .
I thought Teddy Roosevelt and Wilson Woodrow were both avowed imperialist expanionists, and progressive thought in america 1900-1930's was dominant in political circles and much in favour of ruling those who they deemed incapable of self rule.
Please correct if wrong or direct to a source if you think it would help.
Teddy started the designs on the American Pacific empire, the White Fleet was the befinning of the run, and later Hull and FDR got to put it into practice. The wedge was put in hard after WWI when the Brits met their promise and gave their Japanese allies the German Pacific colonies. Same story then, cut off the gas after tearing up the 1911 navigation treaty, build up the forces at the back door to bring on the fight, sail the heavy hitting part of the fleet round to the Pacific smack in the middle of the European War. Bring it on says America. But it was just two empires slugging it out, nothing noble, no good fight, but hubris aplenty that has cemented adventurism into the blue blood psyche that can't be displaced no matter how many times such turns to mud. As long as it is just professionals that would be otherwise have futures limited to flipping burgers then the middle class will sail on with that hubris on the back of the delusional history of the "good fights" that underwrites it.
If by the "rest of the world" you mean the British Empire. Then yes, we have been enlisted. Both WWI and WWII the U.S. was pulled into the war due to our alliance with Britain. The "rest of the world" would rather have had the Americans stay home. Even France opposed the invasion of Normandy. That's right, look up DeGuelle's opinions on it. He feared if Britain and the U.S. were in France we would not leave.
This is such a lame point of view. Basically regurgitating talking points from the last 60 years.. Bla Bla Bla..
The only "just" wars this country has been involved with is the Revolution and war of 1812. Both were against the British Empire.. Both because Britain wanted to control our economy/money..
Crack open a book.. One not written or approved by the U.S. department of propoganda..
If you're ready to handle the banksters with extreme prejudice, you have my vote!
First, bow to the King---check
Now hold his hand in the rose garden !
agreed, nuke the fuckers...that's what they promised to do to others, why wait?
I am not Chumba Bumba Numba Rotumba or anyone else...
Don't ask for what you are unwilling to suffer personally.
+1
+ infinity.
"One, two, three, four, we don't want your fucking war!"
That is a ridiculous blog/story. It is NOT the view of Iran, it is the view of a liberal American who scoffs at retaliation. This idiot didnt even mention JIHAD!
I know & even moschiac didn't get a mention...the nerve
That stings so good that I half think Tyler gave Gonzalo that line...
Sting? Hard to be stung by an incoherent phrase like that, but im sure some sort of wittiness was attempted.
Oh for fuck's sake try emerging from puberty.
"And with no provocation on our part"
You've gotta be fucking kidding me!!!! Whoever this Gonzalo Lira is, he/she consistently takes ZH down a few notches and frankly could use a Predator drone missile or two up his/her ass.
Still drinking the Neocon koolaid, are ya?
It's all about kicking Saddam Hussein out of occupied Kuwait! No, actually, it's all about finding Osama Bin Laden! Well, to clarify, it's all about ousting the evil Taliban from Afghanistan! Er, wait, it's really about kicking the evil dictator Saddam Hussein (who the US government supported in the 1980s with funding and a vast amount of weapons) out of Iraq! (and besides, "We gotta fight them over there so we don't have to fight them over here!) OK, wait, my mistake, it's really about finding and denying Saddam Hussein WMDs before he attacks the American homeland! Wait, wait, it's REALLY about opposing the mad nuclear ambitions of the Iranians! (why they are "nuclear mad", let's not go there).
And through it all, it is OF COURSE all about standing up for our one true ally (and the unofficial 51st American state), Israel.
(I realize, of course, that the last comment of mine will get me a huge amount of "junkings" from the Mossad-funded pro-Israeli internet troll brigade. Oh well.)
Israel was the 49th state, long before Alaska and Hawaii.
I stand corrected.
Although to be precise, I believe that Israel would technically be the 52nd state, behind Europe the 49th, Japan the 50th, and South Korea the 51st.
Akak, I completely disagree with you on gold, but I completely agree with you in your interpretation of foreign policy.
You're not all bad.
I especially like the post before this one, but for some reason it only is letting me reply to this.
+1
I humbly concur too JB. Akak's other eye is beautiful after all when you uncover it.
JB, thank you. I appreciate you saying that.
Akak, I completely disagree with you on gold, but I completely agree with you in your interpretation of foreign policy.
You're not all bad.
I especially like the post before this one, but for some reason it only is letting me reply to this.
Canned ham buried in my backyard, bitchez.
I see it as intellectual diversity. I see it as courage. I see it as what we all should long for: Truth. And you don't find that without the nuts/ovaries to challenge yourself.
++++ akak and ISEEIT!
Search for the truth, however painful.
Intellectual diversity helps.
Looking within and challenging yourself is a great thing (although I am way behind in this).
+100 Akak
Damn, you were so close. Our "one true ally" in the region is nothing more than a pawn in the Anglo-American chess match for world dominance. It's about Petro-dollars and nothing more.
Not junking you Akak, but does Israel HAVE to be part of every discussion, from gold futures to Iran nuclear ambitions to HFT algo flash crashes (probably programmed by the Mossad)?
Rahm is Mossad.
"takes ZH down a few notches"
you are a goose Blano. Just because ZH posts an article you disgree with you criticize this brilliant site. I have any idea for you: If you dont like the site go elsewhere. There are plenty of other neocon blogs on Fox news, CNBC where you will find plenty of other morons that agree with your warped sense of reality.
ZH has posted this becuase it is worth reading. You are too stupid to realise this.
ever heard of free speech douche bag ?
that's a freebie with Glenn Beck's book Arguing with Idiots, amirite?
This is all over oil. Once you realize the total predicament of life post peak oil, government's will throw all rules all the window. This is about who can keep up their way of life for the longest time possible to avoid a slow total collapse of the system. From the oil addicted multinational corporatacracy point of view....fuck Iran.
This is certainly all about oil in the sense that the last thing the Obama administration wants right now [besides a sudden public awareness that a centrally planned command economy is doomed to failure] is a spike in oil prices which will happen if Iran is provoked to interfere with oil tanker traffic. Forget the war, the US naval force is the traffic cop in this scenario.
If this is all about oil, why has the US inilaterally supported Israel instead of all of the oil producing nations? Why has the United States done everything possible to create enmity between it and all of the oil producing nations of the Middle East?
why "support" an "oil producing nation" when you can play war games all over it and STEAL the oil? think of how much oil the military NEEDS to keep playing. . .
and if you really want to know why amrka "supports Israel" - stick around, some people here have info to share with you. . .
While not defending the war in Iraq, the idea that this was truly over oil makes no sense. WE could have taken all Iraqi and Kuwaiti oil wells over if that had been the plan. Instead, we drilled in the Gulf.
This has always been about US petrodollar hegemony.
Saddam Hussein sealed his fate when he announced in September 2000 that Iraq was no longer going to accept dollars for oil being sold under the UN’s Oil-for-Food program, and decided to switch to the euro as Iraq’s oil export currency.
It is now obvious the invasion of Iraq had less to do with any threat from Saddam’s long-gone WMD program and certainly less to do to do with fighting International terrorism than it has to do with gaining control over Iraq’s hydrocarbon reserves and in doing so maintaining the U.S. dollar as the monopoly currency for the critical international oil market.
Throughout 2004 statements by former administration insiders revealed that the Bush/Cheney administration entered into office with the intention of toppling Saddam Hussein. Indeed, the neoconservative strategy of installing a pro-U.S. government in Baghdad along with multiple U.S. military bases was partly designed to thwart further momentum within OPEC towards a "petroeuro." However, subsequent events show this strategy to be fundamentally flawed, with Iran moving forward towards a petroeuro system for international oil trades, while Russia discusses this option.
Similar to the Iraq war, military operations against Iran relate to the macroeconomics of ‘petrodollar recycling’ and the unpublicized but real challenge to U.S. dollar supremacy from the euro as an alternative oil transaction currency.
In essence, Iran is about to commit a far greater “offense” than Saddam Hussein's conversion to the euro for Iraq’s oil exports in the fall of 2000. Beginning in March 2006, the Tehran government has plans to begin competing with New York's NYMEX and London's IPE with respect to international oil trades – using a euro-based international oil-trading mechanism.
The proposed Iranian oil bourse signifies that without some sort of US intervention, the euro is going to establish a firm foothold in the international oil trade. Given U.S. debt levels and the stated neoconservative project of U.S. global domination, Tehran’s objective constitutes an obvious encroachment on dollar supremacy in the crucial international oil market.
www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/RRiraqWar.html
9/11 Never Forget! How convenient that event was to neo-con strategy.
Take the U.S.' petrodollar monopoly, couple that with the way GS cooked Greece's (and probably many more Euro countries) books to get them into the Euro, and now you can see why Lloyd probably honestly thinks he's doing god's work... Don't want to back down from the petroeuro idea, well, let us show you what kind of farce the Euro is then... what? What about the U.S. dollar? I'm the one with the AR-15 here, you don't get to ask questions...
Dude, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Qatar, Bahrain, UAE are all big supporters of US......money/gold. :0
Again, any bomb going off in Iran (even one), via the US, Israel will be a end game changer. Oil will go from like $75/B to $200/B or more. It will end everything over night. This is not doom and gloom, this is a fact. Most Americans have no clue what is going on in this Ponzi country, or aboard. The great collaspe is going to happen.
That's why I keep saying, Stealth Devaluation. "We just had to do it, drop the bomb, otherwise, maybe in a year, or two, or twenty, or one hundred, they MAY have developed a nuke". Preemptive war. It's justified, right? Actually, it's a good excuse to inflate the dollar. The history books will write, "in the earlier part of the 21st century we had an oil crisis due to the war with Iran and an economic crisis caused by the great BP oil spill, which caused massive crop damage that rendered agriculture land useless in the surrounding areas for several years and caused mass evacuations causing a shortage of homes as the evacuees dispersed throughout the US... and in other news, economists are debating whether we'll have inflation or deflation; the Fed Chairman assures us the real threat is deflation, therefore, he's considering another round of stimulus just as soon as the Chinese Empire in the Canadian and Australian regions give us the okay - July 31, 2110 Channel 66, California Islands."
"That's why I keep saying, Stealth Devaluation."
You have posted comments on 6 articles over the 3 weeks you've been here. Exactly where do you keep saying this?
His avatar has nice tits, give him a break :)
It's like whizbang saying he was one of the most adamant about the BP voilcano. "When, dude?"
I wish I could tattoo the entire post above onto the inner eyelids of every Neocon and duel-citizen Israeli member of the US government (and there are a huge number of them), as well as read it aloud in a simultaneous broadcast on every television and cable TV network. It is about time the historically, geographically and politically clueless American public were made to see the USA through the eyes of the rest of the world, or at least through the eyes of ANYONE ELSE but the rabidly imperialist US political and military establishment.
Well done.
+1
And -1 for all the people who flagged your post as junk. It is time people realize this is the United States of America, not the United States of Do Anything To Support Israel Who Continually Screws Us Over.
Israel as a nation should take care of themselves, they serve absolutely no strategic interest for the US, they only cause us problems.
+1 +1
Under the Symington Amendment, the USA is forbidden from giving any aid to any country which has nuclear weapons but refuses to sign the NNPT. Therefore, the 3 billion dollars given EVERY YEAR to Israel is illegal under USA law.
Plus then there is that not so small problem of AIPAC and their 'influence' contagion of upper government within the USA. It is far larger than one could imagine (all the way up to Benjamin Shalom Bernanke). It also makes one wonder that if the Jews hated the wall in Warsaw and Nazi rule during WWII then why is doing the same thing to Gaza ok?
hey akak, looks like I get to eat some more of yer junks!
Cathartes = "purifier" - consider yourself cleansed of any shit flung your way, lol.
(by the way, couldn't agree more about outing the dual-citizens in the US gubrmnt - an evening news reading of the list, nightly, would be almost worth having a TV for. . .)
Can you post the list here?
Here you go dick... Warning.. You will have to take your head out of your ass in order to see/read the link.. Another warning, the light will hurt your eyes at first because they will need to adjust..
http://www.viewzone.com/dualcitizen.html
Thanks.
I will make it easy for you..
Dual Citizenship — Loyal to Whom?
American / Isreali Dual Citizens Running the American Government
Attorney General – Michael Mukasey
Head of Homeland Security – Michael Chertoff
Chairman Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Richard Perle
Deputy Defense Secretary (Former) – Paul Wolfowitz
Under Secretary of Defense – Douglas Feith
National Security Council Advisor – Elliott Abrams
Vice President Dick Cheney’s Chief of Staff (Former) – “Scooter” Libby
White House Deputy Chief of Staff – Joshua Bolten
Under Secretary of State for Political Affairs – Marc Grossman
Director of Policy Planning at the State Department – Richard Haass
U.S. Trade Representative (Cabinet-level Position) – Robert Zoellick
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – James Schlesinger
UN Representative (Former) – John Bolton
Under Secretary for Arms Control – David Wurmser
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Eliot Cohen
Senior Advisor to the President – Steve Goldsmith
Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary – Christopher Gersten
Assistant Secretary of State – Lincoln Bloomfield
Deputy Assistant to the President – Jay Lefkowitz
White House Political Director – Ken Melman
National Security Study Group – Edward Luttwak
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Kenneth Adelman
Defense Intelligence Agency Analyst (Former) – Lawrence (Larry) Franklin
National Security Council Advisor – Robert Satloff
President Export-Import Bank U.S. – Mel Sembler
Deputy Assistant Secretary, Administration for Children and Families – Christopher Gersten
Assistant Secretary of Housing and Urban Development for Public Affairs – Mark Weinberger
White House Speechwriter – David Frum
White House Spokesman (Former) – Ari Fleischer
Pentagon’s Defense Policy Board – Henry Kissinger
Deputy Secretary of Commerce – Samuel Bodman
Under Secretary of State for Management – Bonnie Cohen
Director of Foreign Service Institute – Ruth Davis
Add Hilary Clinton, Evan Bayh, Jim Langevin, Lindsey Graham, Charles Schumer, Jim Risch, and everybody else who plays in the AIPAC sand box.
And White House "control freak" Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rahm_Emanuel
We have an Israeli soldier in the WH. WTF?
Yeah.. I've mentioned that before in other threads.. He's they guy you see wispering in Obama's ear all the time.. Love to be a fly on the wall in one of their meetings..
I too found the article to be very thought provoking and could actually side right up with the author. However, every thing he said seems to be historically correct, it's what he didn't say that really bothers me. Make no mistake, Iran is a totalitarian government with little freedom or human rights that huge portion of its population do not support. That same government has on several occasions threatened to wipe the only legitimate democracy in the region off the face of the earth and very much means it. I sort of have a problem with that.
+1
Does anyone here follow the CFL?
Not since Steve Raquet and Doug Flutie left.
k.
by Lucky Guesst
*JUNK*
(pre-junked save)
whatever happened to:
"America, love it or leave it."
When was the last time you heard that phrase used?
(I did)
+ Mucho!
I really like it when posters show what got junked out!
My preference for The Tylers That Be (TTYB) is that they allow some 40 or 50 junks before "disappearing" them.
Come on scoff, you can do better than that. Try something besides ad hominem. Grow a pair.
Ok so in this allegory who are the theocrats originally led by Aayatollah Khomeini and who represent the young, educated, modern-friendly and generally pro-US students and activists?
Not in this dramatic catachism - why?
They would all become nationalists as soon as Israel drops a bomb.
Put on a Berka and wash the floor, or I'll stone you to death.
What the fuck? Iran has one of the freer societies for women in the mid east then anywhere else. They can drive, have rights and more Iranian women go to University then men and they hold plenty of jobs as well.
Yeah, and men cannot attend the women's football (soccer) games lest they be tempted.
Hey Mitchman,
The thing most people fail to do is to draw a scenario out, a little bit like doing the thought experiment as in the post above.
In the given scheme of things, take an analogy. Start off showing regular boxing on TV, rules and all.... in 30 years, UFC. Feed the blood-lust, slowly.
Likewise, start with football.... logical move to lingerie football.
If you study trajectories, the push-back against western style liberalism seems only logical from a people struggling to protect a way of life from soul-killing cultural hegemony, hollywood style.
Worthy of a thought experiment.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
From the Iranian women I have met, they enjoy wearing their Hijab. Just thought I would add that. And yes, they have taken it off in front of me.
"And yes, they have taken it off in front of me."
that's hot.
hot hot hot! saucy too.
They enjoy wearing a Hijab because it is preferable to being arrested by the Morality Police.
Hey Lennon,
My experience exactly.
Most women in the west do not understand who has been "had" by the feminist movement.
All of us. We've all been had.
Viagra was the planned anti-dote. First make women more like men...you know, problem, reaction, solution. Same game.
Strange world.
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
This is precisely one reason why they, TPTB don't want them in existence. The more freedom a nation has, the less we can screw/f' with them.
Boy, someone has been drinking the Marxist/Leninist coolaid.
Sounds like a fractured fairy tale with just enough history thrown in to confuse the ignorant.
Lots of dumb things were done by the US during the cold war. Enormous numbers of cruel, dispicable things (like murdering over 100 million people) were done by the Communists. No comparison.
The Shah of Iran was not a "nice guy" by our standards (nor was the Russian Czar) but what came after both of these "tryants" has been 1000 times worse.
I think the response of the Iranians after the last election tells us that the support for the murderous regime of the Clerics and Revolutionary Guards is minimal. Only force and murder allow them to keep power.
I think there is reason to consider more than one option in our relations with Iran but publishing the distorted lies of this "useful idiot" for the Ayatollah is a low point for ZH.
There are good arguments against using force to resolve the Iran problem. This was just trash.
I guess anything that contradicts or indicts the naked aggression and blatant neoimperialism of the post-WWII American foreign policy automatically constitutes "Marxist-Leninist Koolaid", is that it?
I am sick of the American political-military establishment acting as the world's bully under the guise of being its "policeman". If that is what it is, then the policeman is wantoning robbing and assaulting the neighborhood under the rubric of "protecting" it. Come to think of it, isn't that pretty much what similar if smaller gangs like the Mafia call a "shakedown"?
Seriously, this is like hidden camera at some dorm common room at Brown.
At the end of the world-justice-for-oppressed-peoples rant, when a few chicks are sitting around on the adjacent couches, he's going to take a long pull off his chai latte, lean back and say:
"You know I'm not very religous...but I'm very spiritual..."
hahaha
And when he gets back to his dorm, he's sure to go online and check his bank balance to make sure the deposit was made by his evil capitalist daddy.
So it's not a civilian nuclear power plant??
Pentagon as Israel occupied territory
NYC is Israel occupied territory.
LOL: the author experimented to have a thought an failed? I get it.
That was a good one.
Could not possibly be meant as a serious submission.