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Guest Post: Thoughts On The Liberty Dollar Debacle
Thoughts On The Liberty Dollar Debacle
By Brandon Smith of Alt-Market.com
I was in the midst of the Save America Convention
in Tampa, Florida when I heard, first, that Libya was under bombardment
by the UN (led by U.S. forces), and, that Bernard von NotHaus of Liberty
Dollar had been convicted of “counterfeiting”. It was a stressful day, to say the least. For
those not familiar with the Liberty Dollar incident, In November of
2007, federal officials raided the group’s headquarters nestled in a
strip mall and seized all documents and the gold and silver that backed
up the paper certificates and digital currency being distributed through
the Liberty Services website. The Justice Department
asserted that Von NotHaus was placing gold and silver coins, along with
precious metals currency, into circulation with the purpose of mixing
them “into the current money of the United States.”
To be clear, NotHaus made some serious mistakes,
including pressing his coins to look semi-similar to standard federal
currency, and also using language which could be interpreted to
insinuate that his currency was “legal tender”. There are
many barter networks in the U.S. that use gold and silver that do not
have these kinds of problems with the government simply because they are
careful not to make the same blunders.
However, it wasn’t the conviction itself that
struck me, so much as the language of the prosecutor, U.S. Attorney Anne
Tompkins, in her post trial statement. Let me reprint my favorite parts for you here:
“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,”
“While
these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they
are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to
the economic stability of this country,”
“We are
determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption and
dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of
our democratic form of government.”
Some
in the Liberty Movement have interpreted this statement to be a warning
to all of us that the Federal Government is declaring open season on
alternative currencies. Others see it as a preliminary move towards the confiscation of all privately owned gold and silver. And
yet others see the statement as dire prophecy, now cowering behind
their 1040’s at the thought of the smallest barter transactions, as if
the IRS is the all seeing eye of Sauron waiting to catch them in the act
of trading apples for oranges and sending agents to crush them with
their slimy orc-like fists of doom.
Perhaps I am the only one, but in contrast, I see the prosecutor’s statement as an expression of blatant fear. I’ll explain, but first, let’s dissect the nonsensical and irrational idiocy behind the saber rattling of Anne Tompkins.
First, U.S. prosecutors prevailed over NotHaus on a conviction of COUNTERFEITING! Unless
I am confused, and he was using his silver currency to fashion a
McGuyver-esque thermonuclear sound money bomb, it is more than just a
stretch to try to equate his actions with domestic terrorism. In
fact, the post trial statements of Tompkins are so insane it makes one
question her level of paranoia, and perhaps her prescription drug
habits. After finding no obvious hint of crazy eyed drool
mouth in her photographs, I realized that perhaps she was not a zealot,
but simply a messenger.
My
feeling (and this is only an intuitive notion) is that Tompkins had
little to do with the writing of those statements, or had much
“coaching” from the Department of Homeland Security, which has been
expanding its absurd definition of terrorism to include almost anyone
who does not agree with the philosophies of establishment elites and
corporate global banks. Even returning military veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan have been listed as possible domestic terrorist threats. Why not proponents of gold and silver?
What
we see here is the not so subtle conditioning of average Americans
towards categorizing certain innocuous behaviors as being related to
possible criminal or terrorist motives. Owning guns is anti-social, and you are a naughty bad person for liking big boom boom stick. What’s that? A pocket Constitution!? Didn’t McVeigh or one of the 9/11 hijackers carry around something like that? You have a survival garden? Hmm, that sounds fishy. I better call the FDA and make sure everything you’re doing is on the up and up. You want to trade gold and silver? Privately?! That’s obviously “black market” barter, and you are the reason the economy is so unpleasant. I
don’t get as many food stamps and free big brother goodies as I used
to, and I blame you and your dastardly sense of self sufficiency! The IRS should have your head! And so it goes…
So,
I promote private barter networking and precious metals to safeguard
communities from impending inflationary crisis, and am therefore a
“non-violent domestic terrorist which represents a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country”? How
does Tompkins or anyone else, with a straight face, declare alternative
markets and sound money as a danger to economic stability, when the
U.S. economy has already been annihilated by the derivatives bubble
conjured by international banks and the private Federal Reserve? What
about the constant fiat injections by our central bank which have
created an atmosphere prime for dollar devaluation and hyperinflation? Why
in the hell hasn’t the U.S. Attorneys Office or Anne Tompkins placed
the terrorist label squarely on the doorstep of JP Morgan, Goldman
Sachs, HSBC, or the Fed itself? I mean, if we are going to start equating the destabilization of the economy with white Al-Qaeda, then let’s be fair at least. Global banks have had far more to do with our financial downfall than gold or silver trade ever will.
What about the follow up chest beating
proclamations of “infiltration and disruption” of any organization which
seeks to “challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of
government”?
Wow. Isn’t that comment loaded with bile and stupidity. To
begin with, if anyone, including Tompkins, can show me how our current
form of government is legitimately “democratic” while both major parties
are headed by globalists and corporatists who promote the same exact
ideology and support the same exact legislation, while refusing to
represent even a minority of Americans beyond the elite, then I welcome
them to try. (By the way, Tompkins, I know they didn’t
teach you this in public school, and probably not in college either, but
America was founded as a REPUBLIC, not a democracy.)
If the IRS or anyone else wants to “infiltrate”
barter markets or gold and silver organizations and attempt to record
every chicken egg or gallon of milk traded, then I welcome them to try. Please, expend all your precious energies in a futile attempt to chill barter economies or sound money movements. We would like nothing better. Why? Because you cannot stop barter networks from forming. They are inevitable. Every
culture in history which has seen a severe economic implosion has
reverted to barter, trade, gold, and silver to counter the resulting
poverty and lack of mainstream commerce. The need for survival will far outweigh the populace’s fear of government reprisal. That is simply the nature of man. The
only difference in respect to the Liberty Movement is that we are
working to preempt collapse with supporting networks of commodity trade
and community barter. We are not working to “undermine” the
current economy, we are simply preparing for its eventual fall, and
allowing for the safety of cities and states across the country. Why is this considered devious behavior? Why
would the government react with such vitriol, not towards Liberty
Dollar, but to the very concept of alternative currencies and economies? Because it is something they cannot control…
Ultimately, what I see hidden in Tompkins
statements are the wringing hands of bureaucracy, sweaty and shaking
with a fear of the unknown. When people are desperate, and
dominated by emotions, they become predictable, and this is exactly the
kind of mindset governments like to insert into the collective
unconscious. There are only two paths for any society in
the midst of a full spectrum crisis; beg for more government and more
dependency, even if that government created the crisis in the first
place, or, move away from the ailing government, and towards
independence. Today, in the face of possibly the greatest
economic catastrophe in the history of the world, Americans are
beginning to show an aptitude for independence. We are becoming unpredictable, and this frightens government. If
our cities and states become fully sovereign, with our own insulated
commerce, our own industries, our own food sources, our own defense,
and, god forbid, our own currency, then we may then demand a government
which actually represents us, and our Constitutional foundations,
instead of global banks, for a change. They are moving to call us terrorists, because they truly are terrified of alternative market systems. They have tipped their hand. Which means, we must keep doing exactly what we are already doing.
We do not live in a country built upon the rule of law anymore. Corrupt leaders have no concern for law as a means of balance, only as a means of dominance. Laws therefore change upon the whims of tyrants to fit whatever goals they happen to hold at the edge of the moment. Unjust laws do not deserve the respect or the compliance of the masses. At bottom, we are human beings. Truth and conscience take precedence over all things. If
a law does not follow the inherent auspices of freedom and integrity,
if it does not serve the true best interests of the people, then it
should not be followed. Period. This goes for
any law, current or pending, which would force Americans to abandon
their ability to personally protect themselves, their families, and
their communities, from financial disaster. I leave you with my final statement given at the Save America Convention to drive the point home:
“Today, we stand at a bottleneck in the flow of
history; a nexus of events which challenge our values, our resolve, and
our better natures. Our deepest social and political
beliefs will be called into question, our sacred principles of
individuality and freedom will face an onslaught of malicious
legislation and misguided cultural doubt. These principles always do in the face of global crisis.
To waver is not an option. To retreat is unimaginable. To compromise our core, in this kind of conflict, is to welcome defeat. At bottom, we live in an age of wills that only the strongest of hearts can endure.
As overwhelming as these kinds of struggle can be,
as frightening as this kind of responsibility sounds, these are also
days of truth and providence. Opportunities to right so many past wrongs in the single breath of an era are rare and precious. Men dream of living in the midst of such moments.
As a people, Americans have been challenged. The test is not only one of might, but one of honor and benevolence. How far are we willing to go to not only save ourselves, but to save each other? What are we really fighting for? Personal survival? The temporary stability and solace of the present? Or something more?
Do we intend to hide away, to merely eek out an
existence at the dawn of economic and political catastrophe, or to stand
steel faced and immovable in the very wake of the storm? To return to our foundations and hold fast. To not only subsist, but to prosper. To leave for the future something truly better than what we now have.
The most powerful position of defiance we can commit to as a movement is to teach average Americans to stand on their own. To become the purveyors of their own destinies. For
me, what we call the Liberty Movement is not only a political entity
but a vital philosophy driven by decentralized action and intensified by
the growing uniqueness of its participants. It is the
anti-thesis of globalization, which aspires only to diminish and
dominate the individual, and replace sovereign thought with weak minds
and absolute tyranny.
Ultimately, the greatest leaders do not actually seek to lead, but to teach. They do not seek power for themselves; they seek to empower the common man. This is an act of real survival, for a country of steadfast individuals is unconquerable. It is a place without fear.”
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I'm not sure the US needs extra currency right now, or more coins.......whether real or phoney.
Ben is doing OK all by his lonesome cheapening our money.
And when I hear
I think of Benocide only.
yup. i hope he's got his snorkel packed for gitmo cuz dat lady one paytrot dat means bizniz!!
During the early 90's with the Canuck economy in the crapper and all the banks on the ropes, Canada built a barter economy. It was weird. Buses were popular in Ottawa. A bus would pull up, drop money in the meters, and it was an instant store. Considering sparks street had nothing left on it except borded up shop windows and bank street looked like a Irish ghetto.
It worked, Cancuks even setup exchange programs. Nobody had any money, but everyone had skills. Worked for a while, then TaxCan came into the groups and started pushing people around, lots of threats, couple of fines. Then it all closed down. They even went after garage sales for a couple of years.
Now in the country, the way it works. TaxMan shows up, phone tree happens. I'll go to find them, they need a lift back to where ever they came from. They are tagged and marked. No cars for rent. No taxis are available after the sugar bag is in their tank and they are 300 kms from home. No rooms to rent. No food to eat unless they go to the grocery store. TaxCan always comes back with more jackasses, but we repeat the process , local law enforcement is privy and understanding and tickets the shit out of the cars and the tents they pitch. Make sure to point out to our kids where they pitch their tents. Misery...complete misery is the only way to keep a civil servant away.
Be careful Stateside cousins. If you want the maggots out of your bread, make sure it's wrapped up tight. If the little beasties can't eat, then the vermin, bloodsuckers die. Give them nowhere to go.
Awesome, simply awesome.
By God, I didn't know the Canucks had it in them!
And here we just line up and take it up the poop chute like it's nobody's business while the Poodle hires 16K IRS agents to use as his Party Gestapo.
It's passive agressive therefore Canuck. We don't have guns. But we have the ability to annoy the shit out of people. We apologise in advance for Justin Beiber btw, we will all be listening to the little shit for a long time to come.
"We apologise in advance for Justin Beiber..."
Another plague unleashed on humanity!...LOL.
My thoughts on this...so I don't have to type it all out again...
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/fbi-busts-mastermind-criminal-issuing-silver-currency-demanding-repeal-fed-and-irs-faces-15-#comment-1078489
Regards.
What makes you think he won't be given another kangaroo court?
CPL,
The post was a little deeper than that...but the chances of him beating this are next to nill...unfortunately.
I'm on his side, remember.
He should not have had "USA" (a sovereign government) on it...the "dollar sign" could have possibly been beaten...IMO...but together...well.
My larger point was the Constitutionality of the Fed itself, by Congress merely passing a law...IMHO, it cannot do it that way (even though it has been passed off so far as Constitutional).
To amend the Constitution requires ratification by the states (the creation of the Fed was not ratified by the states, as no Convention was held to amend)...Congress cannot abdicate it's responsibilities...lawfully...which is a glaring difference between a republic, a democracy or a pseudo-monarchy.
We may not agree on virtually everything CPL...but on this we do I think...and I assume you're ready for the black hole vortex to follow on should I be proven right on the Constitutionality of this.
Black hole? We both know that's a good time in what's coming down the sewer pipe, folding time and space in terms of law is what will happen. It's not even about money at this time. It's about choice at the root cause. I enjoyed making it, but like crack, there is a time when it's less about the accomplishment of it or the making of it. Then warping beyond the "value" of it.
It simply comes down to the work of it. What "money" means because at this point in time, the poor bastard was actually selling something that was worth more in terms of output.
Right now an ounce of silver is worth 36 dollars of work. A small tiny bit of paper that is printed by machine is worth 1 ounce of silver. Where we both know it breaks down is the value, the real nominal value of less than a .0002 cents of materials is worth 1 ounce of silver.
And yup, the poor bastard got hung by his own lack of creative interest of how to sell "art". But he sold a shit tonne of 1 ounce silver coins that are now worth more than the original 1 ounce purchased for. If I were him I would claim Salvadore Dali rights. He created surreal pieces of art in the form of "real" currency.
"It simply comes down to the work of it."
It always comes down to labor.
"What "money" means because at this point in time, the poor bastard was actually selling something that was worth more in terms of output."
More in terms of compensation for labor expended I would say...a minor point.
What we have to remember is...western style governments are the only entity that can take your property, your liberty and your life legally...we have given them this right, they were not born with it...they have no inherent right to it...only by our consent.
Having said that...he broke the law...he should not have had "USA" on the coins...it would be the same if he lived in Canada and had the queens image or a maple leaf on them...it's "legally" counterfeit although it assays correctly in the metal.
"If I were him I would claim Salvadore Dali rights. He created surreal pieces of art in the form of "real" currency."
LOL...the suffering artist defense.
Good rap CP...SeeYa
Keep it easy and stay out of trouble minksy.
Labour or the value of it is a weird thing. All I have to say about it is a drunken conversation about star trek.
http://x3etfhell.blogspot.com/2010/05/economics-of-star-trek-discussed-i...
This is so true, and unfortunate. A first shot across the bow? Time will tell.
I have not seen both faces of this coin. It was interesting to me as I can see where certain bullion coins that so far are legal tend (oops - legal tend?) to skate close to the edge. Buffalo and mercury dime rounds that mimic old money, and many Morgan style and others that say United States of America on them. So far I am not aware of any problems with these common dies, so intent is the major crime here. Thought Crime, and the creeping expansion of same.
Highland Mint's die selection - pay close attention to Stock Die 13:
http://02dca62.netsolstores.com/stockdies2.aspx
You should see it now. Chinese and Indian come in and bid, 20% over asking for basic commodities and pay in silver and gold. Not just the Ottawa valley, New Brunswick...Alberta...anywhere the grows food. China has been in here, in person, as in the co-op in a month will have Chinese nationals from different interests along with the Indian folks, bidding on output per 100 acres.
You know where the people bidding on Euro and US food supply are. Some building, at a desk, rotting...panicking. Plus the silver and gold exchange is nice, it's not taxable until it's turned into fiat. As far as the Valley is concerned, we're all happy Canada is electing another minority government of conservatives under the guise of back room deals. No one I know could give a shit who is in the post of PM after May 2nd. The system can rot and I doubt you'll find anyone outside of Ottawa, Toronto or Vancouver that gives a shit if it mattered.
Again want to kill a tax man, think like a farmer. If there is vermin in your house, you starve it to death, cut it off from the ability to escape and let it eat itself to death. Make it quit all by itself. You can't kill all the vermin, but remove the environment it needs to live and it will happily kill itself or never return. Same goes for any occupational force.
@CPL
You could also say to think like GE. How is Jeff Immelt not a financial terrorist?
haven't been to ottawa in decades, but it is the capitol, and a pretty nice one, at that. then, one crosses into hull, or one did, decades ago. not a different part of town...
...a different world. planet. galaxy?
black markets are free markets. worldwide. we REALly don't need a NWO! the one we USED to have is still there. but you can't get there with plastic and you you sure as hell aren't gonna be doing things thru banks and brokerages. the IRS publishes 70,000 pages, and GE pays less than we do! and there are other "tax and fee" authorities waiting around for us, too. everywhere. look at yer phone bill! it MAKES NO FUKING SENSE!
it's not that you can't use a bank. but why use a bank if you don't need to use a bank? if i own a business, i don't mind buying and selling for cash. about 20 years ago, i paid a dentist $1200 for $4500 "worth" of dentistry. cash up front. paid in full. winwin. from the pharisee's point of view, he did something "wrong". hell, WE "conspired"---that's a freaking felony, right there! but he helped me out and enabled me to keep functioning with my peeps the way i wished, too. i told him: buy your wife some nice gold! he said, slewie, i think i will!
hey, if enron and the banksters can go "off balance sheet," why can't people who are trying to get along go "off income statement"?
i know! organized crime does that! duh! they're not styooopid! but, shit, at least they don't work for the fuking goobermint! the CIA, defense dept black ops, state black ops, nsa black ops, and so on have been known to go "off line item budget, too." and they DO work for the goobermint! technically, it is "contra" to the rules, isn't it?
we go into the hill countries of the middle east, b/c of "homeland security", start wasting people with drones, and changing commands, and the whole place is now cultivating poppies! surely, i'm not the only Z.head who noticed!
dostoevsky, zola, steinbeck, others you might name, knew what it meant to think like a farmer.
occupational force? about 3/4 of our Bill of Rights deals with our rights NOT to be subject to same. posse comitatus, habeas corpus---stuff that is, right now, hanging by the thinnest of threads---we NEED this shit. wake up!!!
thanks, CPL! all you hozers and hozettes stood tall, on this site, today!
haven't been to ottawa in decades, but it is the capitol, and a pretty nice one, at that
Not to me, it isn't. The worst ten years of my life were the four years I lived in Ottawa.
Cool, I am also in the Ottawa Valley, only i'm on the French side. By where I live there are a lot of Irish, Scottish, Germans, and Ukranians descendent (I imagine you know the area of Western Quebec I am referring to.) In the early 90's when the language police used to come to "inspect" the vilagages for compliance they would usually be run out of town by a bunch of guys in pick ups. Usually the local police, (at the time QPP) never intervened, usually because the mayor was in the back of the pick up truck with the other folks.
I heard the one story of the language police guy that was left naked on the edge of town with his car on blocks. That was a long time ago though. I haven't heard of the Quebec government sending anymore language police to the area.
The Irish in this area of Canada have an history of standing up to the government. I'm fairly proud of that.
Cheers, fro Hull.
Yup, Buckingham...I remember that. Not the only fucktard to be pitched in the ditch. They are all lucky to avoid being gunned with the boots and having a mouth to speak out of. The Language police had their day at one point in time, but starve teh fuckers out of a good meal, make sure their is no bed for them to sleep and nothing is friendly. they go away.
Anything left of Montreal is ignored and when Quebec City decides to annoy anyone west of the border they are asking for a hosing. Compte tenu de la dernière fois que le Québec a ouvert la route ou a donné de l'argent à une zone jamais...sorry...last time the place got the roads paved or paid back in the area was never. Even in the southern valley we still pave it ourselves in Ontario like our cousins Gatineau west/east. (Hole in the road? Phone city hall? No. Gimme five minutes.) Even in Ottawa it can been seen the money is running thin. They are cutting bus routes to main lines and the communist bent of services for everyone for nothing is getting scraped bare and fast. Like watching a man at the Hull Casino measure his last twenty in the bar.
As I've mentioned the area is Normandy/Irish/Native/Scottish, kick a family tree and we all fall out. lol We're a good looking people.
G'Day de Prescott mon/ma cousin
http://shockedinvestor.blogspot.com/2011/03/canadian-government-falls.html
@CPL- excellent posts!
Brandon, nicely done, well written clear and intriguing. I look forward to your next post.
@CPL
I think our Treasury/SS/US Marshall/FBI/IRS federal agents are bit more aggressive than their Canadian counterparts. Still, congrats on your resisstance and may we develop the same fortitude in the lower 48.
What is someone threw a war and nobody came?
Just a bunch of dumb assholes standing around looking for a fight. If that sounds like street corner thugs...it is. Weird thing I can say about wars from reading blocks and stacks of shit to avoid boredom, it's not really the battle that wins it. It's what people do on the ground everyday. Assassination and complete disinterest in the "ruling" regime, these things play more a part in political change than a land war, most people would be happy doing other things.
In a modern world you have to understand who these people are. They have nice lives, comfortable homes, families that tolerate them and lights that go on. Remove all external validation and watch the violet wilt. Most without a working wi-fi contection turn into complete boobs. Could you imagine people attempting in the field trying to figure out how to get a modem working?
My favorite thing is to watch city people try to use a cell phone here. I have a secret pet fun time. Watch some idiot with an iPhone do something. lol 3G in rural Canada, maybe find a roaming tower connected to a wild turkey or moose.
If you want change, find the cell towers and knock them down instead of let them being built up and simply stop using them. Same goes for cable TV. Find the CO box and have fun with it. Learn enough and give everyone free cable, all it takes is a 12 pack of dollar store gator clips. Same goes for fucking with DSL and cable, looks like R2D2, about hip high and usually one every 400 feet from each other.
Look up the ancient and phun skill of phreaking. Want to knock down communications start there. Want to learn how to develop DSL in a local area and your own "internet", start there. Want to help egyptians put up a cell phone tower in a country that shut it down from nothing, it's great place to start.
I'm an engineer, BUT, I can name ten guys that can build a new communications setup with nothing but imagination and the understanding how a communications connection is made by hacking it together.
All that's different between me and my friends is a degree. Just takes an interest in playing with other peoples toys. That's anonymous.
@CPL
LOL. Phreaking reminds me of "Captain Crunch." I've already started looking into "packet radio" (http://daily-survival.blogspot.com/2011/02/packet-radio-app-for-apocalypse.html). I've enjoyed your posts for some time now. Tonight is a real treat. I've got some more reading to do. Thank you for that.
Old skool it is then. At one point in time packet tossing between HAM radio guys in the FIDO network on BBSes was pretty popular. Just like the internet but slower and personal to the location. Use PGP 1.0 or lower and you have a promise that you will never have anyone reading your shit, ever. BTW, it's very illegal to even own a copy of PGP 1.0 or lower, suggestions is to find an old amiga version and generate a key. Look up the term emulation and amiga on google. Sometimes to be secure, use old technology. The originator of PGP, that basis of all current online shit-tacular security is based on it. Did so well the original guy that built it in 91 was killed...sorry...accidented. Car accidented...even though he didn't own a car or drive one and was a first year university student. Phrack has a couple of issues on him from a million years ago.
FOr Phreaking.
http://www.textfiles.com/phreak/
Same technology is used today. At least the premise is. The toys may change and if looking for a fix, there is always something hanging around, just has to be cludged into place.
CPL - thank you for your posts, they contribute much to the discussion.
RE: "accidented", to whom do you refer? Phil Z is still with us, were you refering to some one else?
You use the HAM radio as a modem. best speed you are getting is 9600 baud tho. No pictures...just text.
This is an excellent set of posts. I will read you with more interest going forward.
This is misguided. The internet is the only thing giving people any non MSM news or communication.
Starve the beast by:
1. Buying nothing but food, fuel, necessary med's and PM's.
2. Turn off TV and for gosh sakes don't buy anything advertised on TV
3. Take all money out of interstate banks and put it in locals and credit union.
4. Barter or pay cash/PM's when ever possible.
We all do that and the elite go down without a shot fired. Just go on strike and STARVE THE BEAST.
okay...couple of things..
1. Buying nothing but food, fuel, necessary med's and PM's.
Everyone around you has an ability. Find out what is yours and use it. The idea of a lone survivor in the wilderness is a retarded fantasy. Want to have a NICE life, you work with people.
2. Turn off TV and for gosh sakes don't buy anything advertised on TV
What about my food chopper and my turnip twaddler? It's a form of communication, don't understand most of it is bullshit? then you deserve to buy anything shoveled down your throat. I'm sporting my snuggie holding my slap chopper in hand waiting for my MDG laptop to show up so i can order some of these sick online mortgage deals and medications from Manitoba pharmacies while reviewing nude beaver shots of show celebrity of passing fame.
Again, get suckered in, you deserve the 12 inch cock in the ass.
3. Take all money out of interstate banks and put it in locals and credit union.
Who told you they were any different from one another. They are all fractional reserve banking advocated...otherwise they would not be able to run. When the banking system went tits up in 2008 in the US, libor SUCKED every dollar out of them and left them to die. Most of the banks that went tits up were locals and CU's.
4. Barter or pay cash/PM's when ever possible.
That I can agree with, if I can haggle with a electrician for fixing a PC or validating a design for specification, I'll do that as long as the agreement is honored. But since my experience of skill swap has been pretty good, 80% delivery, I still like to have a fall back point. That ended up making me a loan shark in that situation, I did end up getting my due.
It's amazing how fast people put a zero value on delivery if it's just labour on a promise.
Ever ask friends to help you move? It's like that except without a deadline or friendship. It's all based on trust and honour. What's that worth as a rate of exchange?
Pure poetry to my ears, my Canadian brother. And an action plan, too. Very instructive.
I would join the Rhino Party to offer my action plan but they were disbanded because they actually got a seat. Part of their mandate of change, "if the world ever changes to accept us, we no longer need to exist as a political party because the world has become insane"
I'm making that last part up, but yes, they did have a mandate to disband first person to be elected to a political chair. I think it was a sock puppet/cartoon/dead guy in Toronto that won in the student ghetto.
Anyone that wants to read up on the Rhino Party of Canada here you go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhinoceros_Party_of_Canada_%281963%E2%80%93...
The Rhino party puts the Tea Party to shame! :>(
WOW, where do you live again. I want to move THERE> love the phone tree and the sugar in tanks and everything else.... that's what i say... you KNOW who these people are. just shut them down. do not sell them gas, no food, don't clean their houses or do their dry cleaning., don't rent them rooms or cars or anything else, MAKE them leave. oh please tell me where this nirvana is.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/13290698/The-Modern-Militia-MovementMissouri-M...
we already saw this info. trouble is, i have a different interpretation. She's just sucking up to the war on terror assholes who still control everything important (CIA/bankers/military/media scum). Wants to make a name for herself so she can get a cool dildo and sodomize her enemies (and geez, isn't that list neverending!)
yeah, but this shithead not only made "mistakes", he either had a lawyer who sold him out to this schoolmarm scolding, or he was just so moronic he took it to trial and lost, maybe? why did he "waive time"? he was arrested june, 2009. why did he give the Feds 1.5 years to prepare this case? he had a lot of support and boosters in 2009. why didn't he insist on the trial by august, 2009, and just scream bloody murder like the berrigans or bobby seale? he shoulda tried this case, fast and loose, in the court of public opinion. he coulda made the jury squirm! but he didn't have a plan, and his lawyer sold him out.
this author says he was convicted of counterfeiting. i'm not sure. technically, he went down for the count of four (wiki): In connection with the Liberty Dollar business, a federal grand jury brought an indictment against von NotHaus and three others in May 2009,[5] and von NotHaus was arrested on June 6, 2009. VonNotHaus was charged with one count of conspiracy to possess and sell coins in resemblance and similitude of coins of a denomination higher than five cents, and silver coins in resemblance of genuine coins of the United States in denominations of five dollars and greater, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 485, 18 U.S.C. § 486, and 18 U.S.C. § 371; one count of mail fraud in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 1341 and 18 U.S.C. § 2; one count of selling, and possessing with intent to defraud, coins of resemblance and similitude of United States coins in denominations of five cents and higher, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 485 and 18 U.S.C. § 2; and one count of uttering, passing, and attempting to utter and pass, silver coins in resemblance of genuine U.S. coins in denominations of five dollars or greater, in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 486 and 18 U.S.C. § 2.[5
is this counterfeiting? such "utterings"? plus, the feds cleaned him out! and then some!
no incarceration without taxation!
physician, heal thyself!
oh, shit! i almost fergot (it's fri. nite and my daddy's up, late, pickin w/my uncle jim): ahem!
slewie has said from day one: hold your "wealth" in US Mint-produced gold and silver coins. for legal reasons. this von nuthouse coulda put his entire stash in silver eagles, rather than make his "own" "MONEY", and done pretty much the same thing, probably for less cost, with no legal downside, like this shit!
johnny silverbear makes his own proof silver rounds. but he has a pretty decent lawyer. himself, probably. plus, he's actually read the applicable laws, i would opine. starting with the US Constitution, of course.
tyler! are U thinking what i'm thinking? lol! if we can't send our silver bullion to the US mint, like we're s'posed to be able to, that BEing the purpose of the fuking US Mint (!), maybe Fight Club could help find us some private mints, and we could could start collecting the whole zeroHedge "Avatar" series of silver "rounds", next year! i'll trade you eight 1/10 oz "silver slewies" for a 1oz "tyler durden". straight across. go w/ business strikez. keep it SIMPLE!
just don't pretend it's "money". if not monetized, it's just 1 TROY oz. bullion rounds, not "US coins". not "money". not "currency" not "legal tender". not right now. not here in River City.
von nuthouse is quite a story. maybe now he could define "money."
pay attention. there may be a quiz. and it won't be administered, here, by the canadian tax collectors. i guarantee it!
May I suggest bitcoin?
http://www.bitcoin.org/
Advantages:
Encrypted transactions
Peer-to-Peer Robustness
Incentive for 'miners' to process transactions and raise the complexity level where organized attack is prohibitive. (Using botnets, etc..)
Route around Central Bank, Federal Reserve, Political Policy bungling
No arbitrary limits or 'minimums' - divisible to fractions if necessary
Geometric curve which limits total 'minted' - limit to be hit in about 130 years at current rate
Transparency via the blockchain for transactions to be verified
One-way transactions - you cannot spend bitcoins again and again (nor can you 'print' them by any means)
That about covers it. I hold a small amount of bitcoins and that is the extent of my involvement.
Route around manipulated fiat currency like a defective node on the internet.
Other links:
Charts - http://mtgox.com/trade/history (click 'last' or 'all time')
http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/
Don't like the federal reserve?
Don't like central banks?
Do something about it.
Cheers.
The only query i have is whty reinvent the proverbial wheel? Gold and silver already serve these roles and have for millenia...
Gold can't be transmitted half way around the world in a few minutes though. Yes, you can build an accounting system to digitally transfer ownership, but then you're exposed to the accounting counterparty. With BTC, the computing nodes maintain correctness so the exposure is only to the actual value of the accounting unit (and black swan network kaput).
Physical anything can be confiscated and spent as effectively by the thief as the rightful owner. While this is the first I've heard of Bitcoin, I've often thought we now have the network technology to publicly administer a who owes who database. Eliminating fungibility of money could be a serious weapon against sovereign metastasis.
what tf are you on?
I may have taken too much.
The practice of only accepting payment from proper like minded folk shouldn't come as a surprise, ever try to buy a 916 (the Porsche not the Ducati?) And if you believe what some say about the inverse microbuck art world ...
i'm not up to speed on that art world thingy, but have seen stuff in the new yorker if that is close. never tried to buy a porche, but i never had a problem buying anything, anything, and i mean that, with cash in my hand. might not have got the benz or the boat for what i'd hoped, but if i wanted it, nobody has Ever turned down my cash on a full price offer.
i mean of you want terms or a loan, maybe, and the guy isn't sure, fine. you're not "good enuf". but if someone puts a price on most anything, and you offer his "ask" in cash, he is pretty much in a legal obligation to make the deal, where i'm from.
i don't understand you, man. lol. take some MORE!
@TraderTimm
Another ZH gem. Thanks for the heads up, I'll check into this.
Why are you all talking about producing silver rounds for trade? They are already available. Kitco and Pan American Silver sell them. They do not resemble US coins and, as far as I know, the government isn't going after them. Von Nut... was rather stupid to produce something that resembled counterfeit. I'm glad we have the counterfeit law because we could go after the Chinese if they flood the market with silver plated liberties.
It wasn't ever claimed his Liberty Dollars resembled counterfeit, was it? And even so, if you had read my comment posted minutes before yours, you would see you are most definitely incorrect as to what silver rounds are out there.
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-thoughts-liberty-dollar-deba...
See: www.dgcmagazine.com
It sounds like Tompkins is a fan of Harrison Ford films, or according to the author the dept of homeland security has a good collection of his dvds.
It's a horrid, horrid indictment of gangster culture in American politics. As soon as you enter the domain of the powerful, you get a turf war and pitiful, idealistic creatures like Bernard get the shit kicked out of them.
Concerning the ability of great leaders not to lead, but to teach, of those who do not seek power for themselves; those who seek to empower common man, to exemplify the act of real survival, for a country of steadfast individuals, unconquerable, a place without fear : we know this does not apply to the current leader of Tripoli, Libya. One true soul who tried to teach this absolute leader the virtues of leadership as extolled in this article above was his Ukranian nurse, who has sadly abandoned him in his greatest hour of need. A fatal loss that history will sadly register. Here is the story of their tumultuous relationship and final parting :
A Ukranian nurse has an awesome productivity. She is the genuine Stakhanovist, a true laborer worthy of the Lenin award.. She can tolerate heat like no one humped camel. Even two humped camels cannot match her staying power. It is amazing to explain in pure words her devotion to cause. For instance a normal state flight from Tripoli to London, where El Magnifico has his private home, is more than two and a half hours according to flying ace Sven...She had never lost her breath once on those incessant trips, in the double dips, in the forced landings, in the Stukka dives, she was always alive. Sven Bottoms-up, the ex-Viking ace, who tested jets for Saab Vixen model, flew them impeccably into Gatwick airport where they emerged spick and span on the tarmac like full tailed peacocks on the march. He was a test pilot ace before an 'offer he could not refuse' took him to gay Tripoli. A blond giant amongst dark pygmies he smoked his havanas by the pool side, like a lazy Red baron on the loose.
There amongst the two hundred and fifty pure, thoroughbred camels of the Akka Akka breed, which followed their master's wandering odyssey from oasis to oasis, on his meditation trail, only the Ukranian nurse knew how to make him reconcile the temporal and the sublime. It had lasted 9 years and she had lived nine lives like a scalded cat. Now she was ready to go home. When the sound of the AK 47's started to stacatto in Tripoli.
"I'll never be able to replace you in my hour of need" said the great man with regret. "You can stay the whole distance all the way to Tombouctou". "I know, my master, but my daughter awaits me in Kiev. And then the Playboy wants my interview. I must prepare for retirement so hard earned". He had to reluctantly agree. "I know. All I have had to offer you all these years is blood, sweat and tears. We have fought them on the beaches, in our houses, our alcoves and in our very streets. With you by my side. When I rode you into the red sunset.'" He sighed as the memories came rushing back like the tide.
"You must to your destiny and I to my million dollar contract" she sighed, waving him a last kiss. As the plane took her to safety she carefully looked at all the intimate photos her remote camera had taken of their intense, convoluted, face to face, back to front activities. A unique, incandesccent album worth all the relics of the Cairo palace of antiquities. Once her master left this world for the next, they would become Osiris and Isis, for eternity...Priceless.
Don't bogart that joint my friend, pass it over to me.
i'm pretty freaking sure he finished the whole sloop, there, JohnG!
+priceless!
Sheer poetry. Brilliant.
Ty. I'm glad somebody liked it. I miss her the Ukranian nurse!
They're cheapening the language too, with "terrorism" now apparently meaning anything to everyone (and nothing to anyone).
Quick, what is the Newspeak word for someone who pretends to be a nurse, goes into a school, and plants a bomb designed not to kill but to maim children and schoolteachers?
Does the same word fit someone who is trying to monetize gold and silver??
I agree, he should not have tried to make the coins look or feel anything like official government coins (or called them "dollars"). So I could sorta understand the charge of counterfeiting. But terrorism? Sheesh!
It's a Variable. It's value can be changed whenever it is convenient.
A Terrorist cannot be beaten like a country(Hitler, Japan), It cannot go broke(Soviet Union).
When the USSR fell, people started talking heresy like 'Peace Dividend' They could not have that. They Needed a NEW enemy. Someone that could not be beaten or go broke.
Someone who we could wave the flag at, Someone befitting of spending $800 billion+ per year to defend against.
None were around so we took some folks that were already on the CIA's payroll and got them upset. Gave them some bombs, guns and ammo. And voila.
The 'Terrorist'
Now they had an amorphous enemy. One that could be molded and changed as the needs change.
Foreign today, Domestic tomorrow.
Moslems/Islofascists today Gun owners / Gold owners tomorrow.
Keep'em scared. Keep'em broke, and keep'em fighting among themselves.
And Keep the money coming to us.
Step back, Look at the big picture over a time continuum.
From Father to Son to Grand son (Well at least in the case of the bush family. From Prescott on down and I mean down).
samsara
Think you have this exactly right, especially w/the time frame.
"Peace dividend?" The Owners weren't about to let any of that money pay for Medicare for Everybody or higher ed for any kid capable. No, that money needed to go to the MIC. They needed a pretext, and created it, as you describe.
The endless wars serve several useful purposes. One, the would be general officers need battle experience. So every generation has to havde a war to insure top level promotions, whether the country needs it or not. Also, military munitions expensed need to be repplaced, so money flows back to the MIC.
And after the smoke clears, the contractors come in and rebuild. Lillte wonder Smedley Butler said "War is a racket."
You can see the plan in action: "Keep'em scared. Keep'em broke, and keep'em fighting among themselves."
Works like a charm.
A terrorist is anyone who pulls on his leash.
Wow...
That pretty well nails it..!!
This woman is a criminal or dumb as a post. Farce in progress.
She is an Enemy of the People.
---
Brandon Smith, you rock!
This guy was asking for it. Begging for it. He got it. No sympathy.
You want to be a martyr, there are quicker, more efficient ways to obtain that status.
Regarding the "domestic terrorism" issue - they've been prepping for a few years now. It's only a matter of time before they get to arrest the next T. McVeigh and hold him up as an example of why our liberties need to be further narrowed. As the economy worsens, the next Joe Stack will be created but will be more methodical than JS. He'll do something violent and stupid and the excuse will then be there for TPTB to tighten the noose.
It's coming.
We, in fact, got it coming.
Behold the hysteria and desperation of an Establishment facing its own demise!
And that demise will arrive via a tightening noose spun from fiat currency and pulled tight by fractional reserve banking, with all the lies, unsustainable corruption and simple evil inherent in both.
he probably went into court and started talking about the law of admiraty and the yellow fringe on the flag......
he poked his finger in the eye of the beast. we can't do that............yet.........
The first time I saw that issue raised I was shocked, especially the parallels between birth certificates and maritime admiralty laws.
Interesting stuff.
yes sir i agree the admiralty thing can be quite fun.
seems the trouble is, the alleged fair courts really dislike admitting you are correct when challenging them.
personally, i'm one for two right now. not bad for a self taught lawyer. the third matter, my fraudclosure case is pending.
oddly enough, i have noticed my current fraudclosure case affidavit filings have caused the attorneys to now avoid the court completely. thier last response to the case was through a new attorney of the firm, but he was able respond because he wasn't yet named (i subsequently add to my claims). now he made the mistake of submitting an answer to me adding him without notifying me. he's now done as an attorney. he will learn the hard way i guess. i'm going to enjoy ownership of that firms' property someday soon.
additionally, the first judge assigned to the case reclused herself after my first response and counterclaim. the re-assigned majistrate has agreed with 3 of my 4 motions. i learned why the one was denied and learned what not to say.
it's a very tricky field, this admiralty, and would not recommend it to anyone unless they comprend the process requires vast amounts of time to learn and defend against and most importantly a real understanding of who you really are. most sheeple who try the admiralty angle approach end up standing under and suffer a miserable fail, as possibly our liberty dollar patriot. i would love the see the liberty dollar case files.
the "admiralty conspiracy" is not a conspiracy at all. i have proven this by my filings. quite empowering seeing it work as it should.
when one can decipher the truthful parts revealed from the lies professed by paytriots, one discovers that admiralty is quite powerful and appears from recent evidence to somehow be valid enough to create bonds for the corporate US when they hijack the same admiralty liens from unsuspecting filers of admiralty liens.
it helps too to wear a nice $650.00 suit any time you enter the enemy's liar.
i, for one, will NOT stand under these defacto corporations alleged powers. i will stab at thier achilles heels as many times as i can. i want my county back for my fellow countrymen and women and children and will NOT back off and i don't flinch.
people died to found America and i respect that the most in my own life. learn the story behind the words of the star spangled banner - the flag flew by the support of true patriots who died to do it. they all died, but the flag remained.
these bankers are going down on my watch. there is a reason the lone ranger always said "hi ho silver" and i am not referring to the horse.
knowledge is a good thing.
They didn't need to do this, as Gresham's Law seems to be doing a pretty good job of keeping this alternative currency out of circulation.
At least I haven't seen too many (not any) of Mr. Nothaus' dollars in circulation. No one has mistakenly given me one of his 1-Oz rounds in change instead of a $10 bill.
If my memory serves, von NotHaus was making these coins for TEN YEARS before he was 'busted.' He also claims that the Feds told him that producing these coins would not be illegal. Exactly which coin of the realm looks like those that von NotHaus was minting?
There is another, unmentioned aspect.
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2009/01/06/liberty-dollar-creator-seeks-gr...
To me, it seems like he was making the Feds look bad. (Which seems easy to do these days.) Can you say witch hunt? I knew you could.
one toke? the rastafarians probably set the moron up!
On his website, I remember, he provided articles (he even made it on TV) stating the same: that the Feds investigated his case and found nothing illegal.
News reporting being newsreporting, one can tell that reporters might have not enquired FED's side to know whether or not the man claims were true.
I have another pick on the story: dollars and all are not enough to bamboozle people, the coins were very distinctive from USD coins. Very hard to confuse.
Once again, I think to remember that the guy built his currency as a ponzy scheme, with notes growing in value as they grew older.
That is probably what he got sued. Terrorism being simply window dressing to hide an activity the US government is being engaged into on a world scale as the USD is a ponzi backed up by foreigners'wealth.
Terrorists do not get the protection of the Constitution, therefore everyone will eventually be called a terrorist, including people protesting.
And what about Steven Lerner?
http://www.thenewamerican.com/index.php/usnews/crime/6809-union-leader-p...
We all knew "they" had infiltrated trolls into ZH: Johnny Bravo, Math Man, Trav777, and numerous other idiots.
Your tax dollars at work.
i enjoy trav. he does the whole good cop/bad cop thingy by himself, constantly. it's fabulous! i don't care who fuking pays him, it's worth it!
Second! He's the only one more pissed and bipolar than I am.
One of the most amusing things to do here is trying to distinguish the bought and paid for troll from the generic idiot troll. "Can't eat silver" could go either way. Biggest tip-off for me is when their words are basicly true but then they blame it on "the damn jews"- infiltrator troll. So how do you distinguish? It can't just be that you don't agree with them. Honest question for all.
Well said.
Are the CIA looking for hints on troll spotting now?
:)
Honest question for all.
:)
ConradMurray link above set of all the virus alarms on my pc
I seriously doubt anyone is paid to come on here and talk down gold or silver. If anything, it seems more likely that any "infiltrators" would be agent provocateurs, who will try to rile up enough people to justify shutting down/seizing servers for a given site and going after individual posters.
This is why it is good policy to never threaten others, nor any form of politician. Also, best to avoid calling for executions, though I myself am guilty of that from time to time.
"This is why it is good policy to never threaten others, nor any form of politician. Also, best to avoid calling for executions, though I myself am guilty of that from time to time."
Could not agree more...I have a theory about this type of activity but it would sound like paranoia to go public with it...let's just say the majority of it (in my theory) does not come from within the states.
Besides...I'm not sure the Sedition Act was ever repealed...LOL...but I do know they can't convict on "thoughts"...if they could, everyone would be in jail for something ;-)
if that's the case, please ignore everything i've said in the past. i love the bnake and timmuh.....please, please, please do not come crashing my door in at night.
Just be glad you aren't posting using your real name. I will be the first to "disappear" if things go that way. I am easy to find.
Watch for my disappearance. If I am gone for more than a week without giving prior notice, that is probably a good sign that you need to GTFO.
I already know I'm monitored. NSA interrupted chat session with son in Afghanistan.
duplicate
That's a joke right.. As if any of us are anonymous to the NSA, ha. Keep disruptive thoughts to yourself soon you will need to identify disruptions as positive or negative to your cause. At that point tptb will have bigger fish..
Yup..
Been true for a long, long time..
(Pre-internet..)
There is a guy in Canada called Richard Warman. He regularly visits sites where he doesn't agree with the general theme, posts provocatively under pseudonyms, and then hauls the poor sap who rises to the bait to one of Canada's execrable "Human Rights Tribunal", where, as you might expect, you have no rights at all if you're accused. Numerous saps have had to pay this douchebag cash money. Needless to say, Warman thinks he's a protector of the people.
For your eyes (ears?) only, Ahm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klG9G4BDLtA
I think ZH is above your pay grade.
You're such a nice guy, too good for this crowd really, my Lord ... why are you here?
I think it's that - you don't like being upstaged, or, being shown to be ... slow - is this the word I'm looking for?
Or, is it that lack of formal protocol that has you ... uncomfortable?
Care to elaborate here at 'fight club' my Lord?
if he left and never came back, somebody might miss his "psy-opz suggestionz". although, for the life of moi, i can't imagine who.
but, he's got that archetypal "elite" thingy working, too, tho, which can cause a healthy wrinkle, now and then. frankly, i'd be willing to let trav make the call on the fuking asswipe, myself...
For your disrespect and insolence expect an IRS audit in the coming weeks.
The code is designed to guarantee a 100% conviction rate. That is, unless you learn to play ball.
You are not playing ball. Now pipe down. Dancing with the Stars is on. You're supposed to watching that and not complaining about these things that don't concern you.
For your disrespect and insolence expect an IRS audit ...
As for the federal reserve and the irs having a coincident moment of creation it should be no matter of dispute. That it took the overtime hours of a busy as bees war machine producing populace, (many of them women), before the initial 1% "refundable tax on income" borrowed by the federal government by many conscious stricken, patriotic and self sacrificing newly defined US "taxpayers" producing materials for the WWII war effort to initially fund this menace, is a study to be researched and left to posterity.
I for one find it distressing.
The fed and it's Siamese twin the irs, will never be audited let alone disbanded, dissolved and otherwise removed from the US landscape until the US populace understands, disavows and avenges it-themselves of the foreign powers that have used these organizations to enslave and reduce their sovereignty to impotency. imho.
Thee who smelt it, dealt it.
To enable speedy confiscation, I suggest gold and silver be stored pressed into brass cartridges; ready to be handed over to authorities at a few thousand ft/s.
by someone else, no doubt.
you and lord w. be careful, now, hear?
dr. porkchop may end up a this keyboard somnambulistically and start calling you "douchebags", being neither conscious, nor awake, at least as conventionally understood.
clampit, that is the best method for confiscation i ever heard. i agree 100%! you sir on right on top of the matter. most excellent. you move up a rank.
Bernard von NotHaus is obviously not an idiot.
He knew what he was doing.
He could have chosen to issue silver coin and let it become currency.
He chose to usurp the established currency.
Bad move.
And illegal with it.
Even when done legally they execute you. JFK murdered for producing silver certidicates.
I suspect we may have been hearing the words of some bankers put in the mouth of the judiciary.
Can't disagree there.
But it must take some ego to think you are better that the JFK.
And having seen a President of The United States assassinated.
Yup.
That's some ego.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_11110
All the ignorant fucker had to do was produce coin.
What is Silver as Currency if it is not in circulation?
All he had to do was issue coin and the job was done.
He chose to try to undermine legal tender.
Why?
Greed?
His paper is online too:
Myth #9: President Kennedy was assassinated because he tried to usurp the Federal Reserve's power. Executive Order 11,110 proves it. (Last updated 9/4/2000)
It begins: "Presidential Executive Order 11,110 is quite infamous among conspiracy buffs. ..." http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/flaherty9.html
"His paper is online too:"
Whose paper?
Never mind, we're past that ... (Edward Flaherty's piece)
Past what?
Who's piece.
Yours?
Just throw out another name and that's it.
Pathetic.
Slow - the conclusion here is that you that you may be s-l-o-w (see also 'dense') ... and there may be physical reason for it (maybe a 19,200 baud line connection speed on dialup out in the country ... who knows), in which case, never mind ...
(I thought posting a couple things slightly out-of-line might throw you, and it seems to have ...)
Now, for the SLOW ones among us, here is professor of economics Dr. Edward Flaherty's essay debunking Jim Marrs' conspiracy theory on E.O. (Executive Order) 11,110 titled:
"Debunking the Federal Reserve Conspiracy Theories"
Here is the link: http://www.publiceye.org/conspire/flaherty/flaherty9.html
It begins:
" Presidential Executive Order 11,110 is quite infamous among conspiracy buffs. Jim Marrs, author of Crossfire: The Plot that Killed Kennedy, writes that the order instructs the Treasury secretary to issue about $4.2 billion in silver certificates as a form of currency in place of Federal Reserve Notes.1 Written by John F. Kennedy, Marrs also speculates this order was part of a larger plan by Kennedy to reduce the influence of the Federal Reserve by giving the Treasury more power to issue currency."
Enjoy the read ...
he ordered the assasination of president diem of vietnam. and used cabot lodge to do it! shortly after, it was his turn. i doubt that the banksters minded. he had bobby on the chessboard to neuter "edgah hoovah", and bobby went down in LA, lone gunman, too many bullets, for me to sign onto that. i was on martha's vineyard the night teddy drove off the bridge w/ mary jo k. hat trick!
jfk, jr. is no longer with us, either---bad idea to fly that night. again to an island, eh? and caroline did so well in NY! well, at least she is young enuf, and smart enuf to learn from her mistakes. and i hope, when she heals, she's tough enuf to get back into the Fight, and sing her own song. selfish, really. i'd just like to hear her sing it, ok?
i know! the curse!
as i type this drivel, i have in my pi-ratical presence a 1963 United States Note (not FRN) the "kennedy $2" [there is also a kennedy $5 US Note], with the graham & dillon signatures.
it's slabbed, PCGS 58PPQ which the mogambo in me sez is: pretty primo quality paper! i saw them in a case in a coin shop. the 63 grade was $30, the 65 was $50. i said: what the hell is the matter with that one that they made it a 58?
well, it has a nearly-invisible little 1/16" crease in a corner, there, he said, adding that he thought it was undergraded, but it did have that little crease...
we danced: how much? $12.00. how about $8, cash, and a silver dime? ok! thanks, see ya! hey, thank you for coming in, today!
this was when the dime was "worth" abt a dollar.
coin shops are fabulous fun and the owners are generally quite reasonable people unless...well, they are human! if they're really busy or doing some $10K+ deals, i tend to come back, later. some guy just made $2K on a monster, he might knock the $15 down to $10, for me. i'm not afraid to ask. trust me.
try it, sometime! they are all over the place. professional numismatists.
again, i think it's fun. this '63 $2 kennedy is the real deal, too!
From that wiki site, re: Conspiracy theory
Executive Order 11110 is quite infamous among conspiracy theorists, such as Jim Marrs, author of the 1989 book Crossfire: The Plot that Killed Kennedy, who speculate that there is a link between the John F. Kennedy assassination and E.O. 11110 by arguing that the Federal Reserve Board was involved in the murder to protect its power over the monetary policy of the United States.
Based on findings in the Congressional Research Service's report for Congress, Money and the Federal Reserve System: Myth and Reality,[5] Edward Flaherty, a professor of economics at the College of Charleston in South Carolina, wrote a 2000 essay entitled Debunking the Federal Reserve Conspiracy Theories,[4] which concluded that this conspiracy theory and related claims about the executive order, the Federal Reserve and the financial system are demonstrably false.
the timing, then, was strictly a coincidence. whew! I feel better, now. Especially since we have the defnitive word from a fukin' ivory-tower academecian, out of...where's that? College of Charleston. That seals it, for shure
On the other hand, we had Jim Marrs out there promoting the theory (and -horrors- profiting from book sales!), and he is .... ?
Also not sensing much 'there' there, in follow-on years things were wound back, but slowly ... LBJ never rescinded the order when he assumed power either (were all the conspiracy talk true, one would have expected LBJ to do a quick about face on this EO - but he didn't!):
Revocation
E.O. 11110 was never reversed by President Lyndon B. Johnson and remained on the books until President Ronald Reagan issued Executive Order 12608 on September 9, 1987 as part of a general clean-up of executive orders.[citation needed] E.O. 12608 specifically revoked the sections added by E.O. 11110 which effectively revoked the entire Order. By this time, however, the remaining legislative authority behind E.O. 11110 had been repealed by Congress when Pub.L. 97-258 was passed in 1982.
Well thank God CONgress investigated this. For a minute there I was getting suspicious. That's what CONgress does. Protect the public against the people that finance their campaigns. Awful swell group of guys and gals.
Plus you have an academic that published a report. I mean really, he's an academic. How can you argue with that?
On the other hand, we had Jim Marrs out there promoting the theory (and -horrors- profiting from book sales!), and he is .... with pecuniary interest (centered on money to be made type interest) ?
A veritable 'Alex Jones' of his day -
I mean, how pure is he?
Nice, two ad hominen's two appeals to authority, and one affirming the consequent.
Fact: Marrs is a writer, a former journalist, a 9/11 Truther (not that there is anything wrong with that), a New York Times best-selling author of books and articles on a wide range of alleged cover ups and conspiracies including "government conspiracies regarding aliens".
Fact: Marrs makes money off the 'stuff' (books, talks, lectures) he synthesizes/dreams up/the theories he promotes.
Fact: Marrs consulted for Oliver Stone on that (IMO) abortion of a film JFK.
Looking at his record and his career and what he has produced, I can't come much closer to objective than that ... can you?
It's still an ad hominen logical fallacy and proves absolutely ZERO 777. Do you understand this? You're making an argument predicated on insinuation and inuendo.
Fact is, I have no idea if the EO was a factor in Kennedy's assassination. But niether do you and neither have you put forth one single logical argument that his case is flawed other than to insinuate that he makes money off of books on CT's. Which by the way, implies absolutely nothing.
I know nothing of this man but let me show you why ad hominen is garbage. An alternative hypothesis to your insinuation would be a man that decided that he'd had enough, and decided to spend the rest of his life devoted to exposing, and shining light on horseshit.
I could easily imagine this a full time vocation, and then some.
How is he to eat and keep a roof over his head? Might he sell the books that he writes on the subject to pay the bills? Or are the only "legitimate" investigators the ones that live in a tent city, get a publisher to put the book out for free (pro bono) and then peddle pencils and apples to scrape together change for a McDLT every few days?
I clearly inferred that you were implying that he sells "junk" to make a fast buck. That is unfounded, it's smear, and it exposes your unthoughtful beliefs. It does nothing to demonstrate him a fraud.
This is ad hominen. Also the inference that he's as bat-shit crazy as A. Jones (who can be easily discredited) is ad hominen.
The consensus of a score of college professors means nothing. Only a logical chain of flawless, reasoned argumet counts. WHO said it means nothing. That's appeal to authority.
Assuming the conclusion that LBJ would sure revoke the EO and then citing that he didn't as "proof" that no conspiracy occured is a twisted isomer of Affirming the Consequent.
I would argue contrarily that the worst thing to do in that situation is to revoke it. Don't revoke, ignore. And I can make that case.
Give me something that doesn't involve what you think would happen (and then pass it off as proof), who with letters after their surname said what, or how so and so is as nutty as so annd so.
I don't know if it's true. But neither do you.
I'm sorry, It is not my intent to attack you. But I really get sick of this shitty illogic on messageboards.
Isn't classical logic or debate taught in the schools anymore?
It's still an ad hominen logical fallacy and ...
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Right, we'll just take your word for it - and move on.
No, It just is.
I don't want you to take my word for it anymore than I'll accept what your jerking patellar reflex is telling me. Go forth and research what an ad hominen fallacy is, and come back and argue why what you wrote is valid logic.
When you post something on a board, be prepared to be challenged on it. The right to free speech is absolute. The right to an unchallenged opinion is not.
I
Go forth and research what an ad hominen fallacy is,
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Killjoy; am already familiar ... and frankly it's BORING, killjoy, and wholly inapropos when engaged in free-association posting as practiced here (ZH).
If you care to go back and review your posts up to the point where you pull this intellectual superiority bullcrap, you were 'down here in the gutter' too casting aspersions on the good Dr Edward Flaherty without having read his piece and examined the merits ... so I have little empathy, pity or respect for your postion ...
So, tell us, do you subscribe to these far-fetched conspiracies as Marr fabricates, synthesizes and otherwise conjures up in his own mind - and from which he profits?
I and the readers here on ZH I'm sure would like to see some of your analytic skill directed at a more worthy target (than a simple experimental physicist) and perhaps take on a REAL challenge like debunking this Marrs-inspired conspiratorial garbage ...
Isn't classical logic or debate taught in the schools anymore?
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Who do you think they get to 'work' these details - Rhodes Scholars (Rachel Maddow)?
If you want the good stuff, go read Edward Flaherty's piece (AS CITED), I'm just a flunky 'front' man on a board ...
Attaboy, Frankie. I agree with you, it's a tragedy that, while we fill our kids' heads up with crap about global warming, we don't bother to teach them how to differentiate between a valid and an invalid argument. You picked 7777's "arguments" to pieces, and he doesn't even know how to refute you; he just gets all shirty.
There's a lot of chaff on ZH these days, but your comments are the grain.
So let me see if I get this.
You cut and paste from Wiki?
Is that it?
Yup, and as you can see, absolutely no/zero commentary by me.
Spot on, you got it.
Yes, yes and yes.
Practically every post a regurgitation of someone else's work ... it's called "Building on someone else's experience" I think ...
I'll admit it right now, without the internet, I'm an idiot ... how 'bout you?
you shitheaded asswipes are both getting yer clocks cleaned, here! yes, he did paste from wiki. then he made the moronic argument which got accurately deconstructed. if you can't think straight or insist on twisting and deflecting arguments by subtle, yet also logically obvious unfairness, you are either getting paid to pull this shit, here, or you are fuking SICK!
fuk off, asswipes!
Christ, even Lew Rockwell debunked this executive order. As Rockwell mentioned: The government has as much to gain as the Fed from the fiat printing press.
Kennedy was killed because he went up against the MIC (also tied to the Banksters).
How are coins today much different from what you say Kennedy was trying to do with Silver coins? OK, coins today are not made from PM, but they do not come from the FED (or even Congressional appropriation)
ALL circulating COINS (TODAY) that are produced by the U.S. Mint under authority of § 5136. United States Mint Public Enterprise Fund and are 100% SOVERIGN U.S, Money (DEBT FREE). This money is non-appropriated by Congress and the Federal Reserve pays 100% full face value to the Mint for every coin it distributes. (Dollar coins take in a 88% seignorage). Any overage goes into the Treasury General Fund which pays down the debt.
Coins are true soverign money -- albiet fiat -- the US government and taxpayers do not pay the Fed Interest on Minted coin money -- The Fed pays us.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/31/usc_sec_31_00005136----000-.html
http://www.usmint.gov/downloads/abou...nualReport.pdf
DOES THIS MAKE THE US MINT A BUNCH OF TERRORISTS?
i always did prefer the terrorist coins made by the mint prior to '65 before that fantastic patriot act ever came out. i also find it funny to be called a paper terrorist when you notify the govt you will only use constitutional money because paper inflates and ignites quite easily.
yeah, for the money, i'll go with the mint's terrorist money over the fed's fiat anyday. too bad right now that consists of a suspended eagle program.
seems it's hard for people to comprehend politicians and "officials" often speak legalese like judges and attorneys do. in legalese most often the key words have opposing meanings from the standard english interpretation.
a good example, big helicopter ben - "we're not printing money".
nuff said.
"the assignat, which suffered extreme hyperinflation before its replacement by the mandat. Enforcement of the assignat as legal tender in France was another occasion for state violence. . . " wikipedia
I believe it became a capital offense to disparage the assignat before it was over.
Yes, I believe that is correct. I also seem to remember reading that people continued to seek out and use real money, even under threat of execution.
After all, if the assignat won't buy sufficient food, and you are in danger of starving to death anyway, then the threat of execution doesn't strike any additional fear into you.
i just peeked, 'k? the assignat (1790-96) was the revolutionary currency of France. bastille day = 7.14.1789. they authorized a sane and limited issue of the fiat. then, they just got amped into the grand total of 45 thousand million. the 1st republic came into being in '92, so we see EXACTLY the same pattern as in the US with the revolutionary fiat. use it to grease the skids to get started.
wiki: The Continental Congress had issued Continental Dollars between 1775 and 1779 to help finance the American Revolution. The paper Continental Dollars nominally entitled the bearer to an equivalent amount of Spanish Milled Dollars but were never redeemed in silver and lost 99% of their value by 1790 despite the American victory.[1] With the fate of the Continentals in mind, the Founding Fathers embedded in the Constitution no provision for a paper currency, and the Constitution explicitly prohibits states from making anything but gold or silver legal tender. end wiki.
lol. i can almost hear the colonial version of nancy pelosi, after the Articles of Confereration went kaput, telling the "fathers": OMG! we have to DO something! they were fuking tapioca! they slammed thru some of the most ridiculous "compromises" in revolutionary history, but they wrote it, and signed it, and they gave it The People. they got 'er done! pretty neat, really, i think. they gave it to us, for our time, just as for those who came before us, and for those who have come from afar to share this somewhat sacred citizenship, here, with us.
read that last wiki sentence carefully. about the gold and silver and the states. then go check the Constitution, for yourself. then, think what it takes to amend this law. then realize, this IS the fuking law. this part of the Constitution of We The People has NEVER been amended. the fuking supremes won't uphold it. look who tf appoints and "confirms" those fuking poseurs! but very few people have thought it through, and even less have dialogued about what the hell it really means. or could mean. present company included.
oh, well congress did this, and the court did that and the executive did such and such.
fuk that shit! they did NOT amend this LAW. whatever it means.
and the legal, LAWFULLY REQUIRED, and presently formed, well-regulated, and standing Militia of the People of the United States of America, is quite well aware of that fact, also, it might seem to some.
that law, the 2nd amendment, and those coins and 'whatever' are the GUARANTORS of human and personal liberty. WE shall enfore OUR laws, if OUR goobermint doesn't get the cranial extracted from the anal PRETTY FUKING SOON, whatever that means, too,eh?
those fuking retards may not be able to 'time' The People, very well, either. look how bad we are with them! so far, they're still pretending this isn't happening! and a shitload of freaking homies, calmly outraged, and under ARMS, are just watching these douchebags, day after day, in genuine disbelief.
we know! it's hard to get the head outa the ass, especially with the operant 'reinforcements' involved, which are fabulous, in themselves! shit, we've all had to do it, ourselves, haven't we? and, they have REAL weapons and jails and raygunz and are bullet-proof, too!
yep. but we're right! we KNOW! we are Lady Liberty's Army of One's. And so are all those other bulletproof citizens, if they want. they know their fuking options, doncha think? lol, we're around them every day!
and, they're around us. they're not pointing guns at us. we're not pointing guns at them. we have a legal dispute, here. and, if we're not able to resolve things in a peaceful, civilized way, we shall just hafta resolve them in a civilized way. would be neither the first time, nor the last. don't say we're not making an effort, here, 0 elites, banksters, Princes, nations, intelligence agencies, and sworn officers under arms AND orders. we're cool. how'z things with your moronic in-fuking-sanity, eh?
if you think this is negotiable at this point, think again. think thru it. that, in itself, should loosen the anal spincter enuf to get an ear out. when things aren't quite so muffled for you, you can hear the roar.
heluva nite at the Racoon Lodge.
go in peace.
Must be nice to live in your world. Fantasy all the way.
Guarantee of human liberty? The US started as a slaver nation. I dont know how US citizens manage to live in a world where denial of basic evidences is the rule.
Armed militia? But, and this without goverment coercion, only personal initiative and popular demand, the armed militias patrolled the plantations to maintain real slaves (not the stupid story telling people who got into debt by will are slaves) into slavery.
Get a grip about your fabled past or produce a more satisfying streak of propaganda.
this is in reply to AnAnon@#1102576. i yam posting it in answer to myself for a little more space between the margins.
listen. i believe in Liberty. a US citizen over 18 is entiltled to make up his/her mind about just about any issue we could think of. you, too.
the Second Amendment is not fantasy. not to me, at least.
the idea of an armed, well-ordered militia comes from the Constitution.
people are armed up the freaking ass. they are well-ordered. they are standing at defense, stack arms, watching legions of criminals. they know what they see. it may be interpretive, but i do not see it as fanciful.
There is reference in the Constitution to "We The People" (WTP). this is not the goobermint, or the liberals, or the neo-cons, although they may choose to respond to this Legal and Political idea and consider themselves a part of that "We". not the pols. the banksters, the military, the cops, the civil "servants" or the teachers. not only do "The People" have different needs from these groups, We have different Legal Rights, and obligations. people who are powerful, connected banksters, may choose to remain so; or, they may decide it might be better for them, now, or at some future point in time, to see themselves as part of WTP, realize where their most essential interests and well-being are truly vested, and get their heads outa their asses, and join the side with highest Legal authority. the President works for WTP. so do all goobermint employees, whether they happen to be aware of this, or not. We plan on reminding them. for now. see if they can "get" it.
and, we respect their choices as to where THEY will choose to stand.
we would like people, all citizens to awake to this REAL choice. i'm not asking people to buy guns. i don't own any. after a year in 'nam, wtf, are you kidding?
i am talking about NOW. what the Constitution says Now. the # of highly armed citizens who are neither pointing weapons, nor threatening to, NOW. but, they have them. and they know how to use them. how many living americans have served? well shit, homer, whatever the #, they have all been TRAINED, and they are not the majority of gun owners, which is an "educated guess" from me. maybe iyam wrong. so what? but i "think" the majority of people who enjoy gun ownership are not vets, just thinking out loud.
if you think the men and women who wrote this document trusted authority and "goobermint power OVER WTP," i would respectfully disagree.
i'm with THEM. so are tens of millions of others. just b/c the goobermint is convinced we "need" them, does not mean that WE are, if you follow me, here.
if you consider this a fantasy, you are most welcome to your opinion. if you live in the US, why don't you go the local Rod & Gun Club and see if they are involved in teaching gun safety to people like you, and me, and the 20-yer-old next door.
armed or not, people who understand these ideas may have learned them at a VERY young age. or, just today.
the fact that you do not understand them does not make them invalid for others, any more than the fact that i, personally, do understand them, makes them valid for you, 'k?
if iyam spinning "fables and fantasy", that is my problem, right?
is it a fable we have The Constitution?
is it a fable that the Bill of Rights has a "Second Amendment" dealing with the right to bear arms IN ORDER TO PROVIDE A WELL-ORGANIZED MILITA?
is it a fable that "We" are armed up the wazoo and also understand this?
is it a fable that tens, perhaps hundreds of millions of US WTP "types" are sick and fuking tired of the widespread and obvious criminality of many of "the elite", and that WE now perceive the NATION to be in grave danger FROM THEM?
the writers and signators of the Constitution had to get it PASSED into Law. they did. not you or me, THEM!
WTP are following the LAW. respectfully, maybe a little tentatively, but as best we are able given all the absolute horseshit and disinformation coming at us, full-time.
WE are up to it. always have been. always will be.
if you are totally confused by this relatively simple picture and just want to deny its viability, fine.
this is a LEGAL argument. i asked 4 questions to display my thinking and my logic, and my Legal argument---the last 4 question marks, above.
answer the questions, 1 at a time, if you would, please.
i believe the answers are 4 "No"z.
again, you decide for yourself, ok?
got gold? got silver? got cash? got food, etc.? got a bike?
in "my world", those are 5 "yes's". for many tens of millions more, also, i would imagine many of them have a 6th yes, too: got guns?
peace.
well put and agreed with. see my answer above on the admiralty issue.
the truth is out there for those who take the time to search it out.
Anne Tompkins = Domestic Terrorist lol
These Orwellian themes just don't let up anymore. How dare he distrubute coins that do not lose 50% of their purchasing power every 10 years.
Did this "attorney" ever bother to read the US Constitution? Don't they make you study that in early law school coursework? I know I did in Poli Sci 201.
Instead of putting an eagle of lady liberty on it or whatever he did, he should have struck it with a morbidly obese person drooling on himself in front of a TV.
Constitution is optional now days, in theory and practice as we can see. They are now days only required to read the clip notes handed them but that man in the dark suit and hat over there.
The language used by this attorney actually brings the whole judiciary into disrepute. Clearly over the top comments unrelated to the defendant and everything to do with political posturing, aiding the banking cartels and maintaing the corrupt political status quo. She sounds pretty shrill and stupid. I think she was taken for a ride by the men in dark suits.
Clip - Clip is that you? I'd like to borrow your Cliff Notes ... http://www.cliffsnotes.com/
Hello. So i just got this email saying "you seem cool enough" for commenting after standing out on the porch for two days and two nights without encouragement..." so i just need to know now where do i get my Armour ?
Thanks.
Amore, Armour or armor -
It's like love, weiners and war ...
Armoire?
That'll work.
Guess i ment armor, im german but my firefox eng spellchecker plugin usually hides that very well.
Those of us who still speak English, as opposed to the American argot, understood full well what you meant.
this here's a BYOA party, bubba, aka a free-for-all. good luck. (PS welcome aboard....)
Thanks. Your Helmet is unique, guess i will start with cardboard too.
MAKE CUDO'S THE OFFICIAL US CURRENCY!!
I think we need to move to a resource based economy. Fuck starting another currency. They don't work.
agreed. let's start by taking back the silver resources and gold resources of the central banks! i'll bet the re-distribution of just those resources would help everyone quite nicely.