This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Guest Post: Today's Silver Scandal
From Janet Tavakoli of Tavakoli Structured Finance
Today's Silver Scandal
Under-30 silver traders weren’t alive to see the billionaire Hunt Brothers bankrupted by silver trades, and those under-45 years old probably never read about it. The Hunts’ silver debacle occurred after the “soybean caper,” but before the CFTC fined them $500,000 in a July 1981 out of court settlement for blatant violation of commodities laws in their attempt to corner beans. The Hunts had borrowed money to buy silver and leveraged themselves in silver futures in an attempt to corner the market.
On March 14, 1980, the CFTC staff reported to their commissioners that the Hunt Brothers could handle their short-term losses as silver prices fell, because “they bought at low prices.” The CFTC was right about the low purchase prices (around $15 on average), but it was wrong when it thought the Hunt brothers could handle the losses.
Simultaneously, then Treasury Secretary Paul Volcker instituted a new directive to U.S. banks as part of his anti-inflation policy. It was a “special restraint” on lending to speculators with holdings in commodities or precious metals. The banks knew better than to mess with Volcker, and they immediately closed the lending spigot to speculators in gold and silver.
Within three days, the Hunt brothers’ cash had nearly run out, and they couldn’t meet a margin call. Two days later, they had to deliver silver instead of cash in order to meet the margin call. Other speculators were having trouble raising cash against their silver, and prices dropped like a stone.
BACK TO THE FUTURE
Some believe the recent general commodities pullback was triggered by the series of CME margin hikes on silver within the past week, after the recent exponential run-up in silver prices. Whether or not that is true, holders of leveraged long commodities positions should have warily watched the action in the silver market. Some silver speculators may not have seen the margin hike as a constraint on lending, but it should have been a red flag for any speculator with a leveraged long position. Moreover, after silver markets closed, silver prices were getting “banged” lower in what looked like suspicious market manipulation.
Speculators rushed in as prices recently soared and rumors swirled that there will be a delivery default at the CME including one of the TBTF banks with a huge short position that it cannot cover. Are the rumors true? I don’t know since those in charge of investigating these matters haven’t put evidence in the public domain, even after a senior member of the CFTC claimed there was blatant silver manipulation.
The fastest way to collapse a recent run up in prices is to choke off the ability of those with leveraged long paper positions to raise cash. Another way is to rapidly hike margins; those with insufficient ready cash will be forced to liquidate. As they liquidate to meet margin calls, prices fall, and it creates a cycle which feeds on itself. I have no explanation for the recent ramp up in silver prices any more than I have an idea of where spot silver prices eventually hit bottom.
This isn’t the first time there has been extreme price action and volatility in the silver futures markets, and it will not be the last. If anyone thinks that the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) has the right stuff to regulate the commodities markets, look no further than its failure to check manipulation in the silver market.
The CFTC has the mandate to “regulate” tens of trillions of dollars in credit derivatives, but it is actually in the business of anti-regulation.
I highly recommend Stephen Fay’s book, BEYOND GREED (1982). A paperback version was titled THE GREAT SILVER BUBBLE (1982). It’s out of print but available through Amazon or Abe Books.
»
- 28174 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
You have no idea what you are talking about. For years big dealers have paid over spot for certain silver bullion like eagles, canadian maple leafs, chinese pandas, australian lunar series etc. It is true dealers were paying above normal prices of late for many items but that is because physical silver is becoming more and more scarce.
You may know a lot about the futures markets but you know nothing about being a precious metals dealer. The large successful dealers hedge all of their positions. If they buy 100 ounces of physical gold they immediately sell a gold futures contract. If they sell 50 ounce of platinum they immediately buy a platinum contract. Smart dealers hedge all their positions. They make their money on the spread. They do not use the futures markets to speculate (not that there is anything wrong with that). Fellas like you provide needed liquidity.
I am happy you are successful in the futures markets but stay in your field of expertise and tread lightly into areas where you know not whatof you speak. Good day.
--Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez
Two hundred thousand dollars is a lot of money. We're gonna have to earn it.
cigar money...
You are right about them running a hedgebook.
They know the ebb and flow of the market.
Every single precious metals dealer bought extra puts last week. They sell the shit. It is not a religion to them. They are in it to make money and you were naive to their manipulations toward the end to gun it a bit higher before buying a bunch of puts.for their private accounts.
All precious metals dealers are highly attuned to market swings.
I talked.to a goldealer.com rep fairly often over the last ten years and they know when it is getting out of hand. They all have a hedge book but they all know when to overweight the short end. Those guys at gilddealer.com and apmex made a killing in slv puts this week. They know the market better than just about anyone. They live it every day and watch the.ebb and flow of orders.
Some of these metal buyers are very naive. They accuse everyone of manipulating the market, yet when apmex tries to gun it up one last time before all their dealers buy a bunch of puts they cant see the obvious.
What ever happened to the REAL Red Barron? Oh yeah, I remember, HE GOT THE SHIT BLOWN OUT OF HIS ASS AND DIED IN A FIERY FUCKING CRASH.
No. A rifle round took him in the upper torso and he landed. At that point he expired shortly after being removed from the plane. I believe a document drawing of his rather extensive wounds were online some time ago.
So you're saying that big infested pool of money people call dollars.You pissed a quart into it and are now proud of being able to pull bucket after bucket of it as a reward.
What are you fucking 12. Bragging about winning grand scam auto zimbabwe edition. Go take some dollars. Puke on them, wipe your ass with them, blow your nose and then stare at it long and fucking hard. See what we see. See what you have to offer. You stupid fucking repulsive child.
Congratulations for doing your part in the fleecing of America. Your mother must be proud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGVVtnoOCcY
Pick a side or one will be picked for you.
Producers, distributors, retailers---
go to
http://www.store.firstmajestic.com/
and look at the prices.
And then go to ebay and APMEX and see the prices there.
It's time to break away from the Comex. What good does it do to sell at the Comex price if you sell out and then have nothing to sell? First Majestic is doing their own price discovery. And it's working. The best thing to do is for the real, physical, silver world to just walk away from the Comex. They got no silver. They represent no more than 5% of the market anyway. They sell a few million ounces every other month. The US mint sells way more silver than they do.
The Comex is about finished and you can hurry it along. All it takes is one or two others to do what FM is doing and the crowd will get the idea. No need to wait til the Comex self destructs. We, the physical market, are so much bigger than the Comex. Screw them. They can't deliver real silver anyway. All it takes is some balls to do what FM is doing. I'm a seasoned business man. I know it, and I can feel it. It's the right time. Fuck the Comex, we don't need them for price discovery. If a retailer does it, he can easily tell if his price is too high or too low. If there's more demand than you got silver, raise the price. If there's less demand, then lower it. Once a few biggies jump on the band wagon, it will all fall in place.
The only thing that the Comex, owned by the evil empire, does for us, is set the price, and FM is showing us you don't need them for that.
The price of most everything else is tied to the wholesale price and to local supply and demand. Ultimately supply and demand rules, and the silver market is no different. The retailers can price the market, you don't need crooks in $2000 suits to do it for you.
If a dealer sets his own price, and a customer says, "Hey your price is way above spot." The dealer can say politely, "It's Ok, if you want to buy your silver from the Comex, go ahead. They don't have real silver for sale, I do." If some big dealers do this, at first maybe customers will flock to some on line dealer who has a lower price, but he will quickly sell out. In this time of short supply, it's the right time to do this. The market will make the price.
Time to wake up. No need to be hypnotized by a bunch of scheming crooks in New York City in $2000 suits. They are scumbag thieves who take advantage of everyone they can. Let them fuck each other over. If people want to play futures, let 'em. We don't need those crooks to tell us how much an ounce of silver should cost. It's time for the tail to stop wagging the dog. It's time for real price discovery in the marketplace, the real marketplace.
$9 over spot? You are smoking some good shit there buddy.
You better throw in a blowjob with those 10 OZT bars. From a woman.
$43 each for generic rounds (min. order 1 tube/20).
Think I'll pass, but thanks anyhow.
i'll pass to on Majestics price premium too ...but kudos for this:
"he best thing to do is for the real, physical, silver world to just walk away from the Comex. They got no silver."
...all private investors should dump Comex and CME after their disgusting actions the past 2 weeks and leave them sucking air for further business
So another Pump and Dump...yawn
Whats the next one...thats more interesting to discuss.
+1 so TRUE
Where is the next pump and dump going to start, yen?
I'm watching a consolidation. The crosses are up. A third leg down looks likely, but it will be violent, and shorter than the #2 legdown. 31.5 xag is the next level. S/T.
-
Yes, but the schadenfreude, my friend!
The schadenfreude!
-
I come here for the articles.
But i stay here for that schaden-wacha may call it.
maybe the silver vol is due to fed/exchange sorcery
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/05/ahmadinejad-allies-charged-w...
"If anyone thinks that the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) has the right stuff to regulate the commodities markets, look no further than its failure to check manipulation in the silver market."
Definitely the best paragraph. And isn't it so true?? If I don't hear something out of Bart Chilton soon about the Silver Market I'm completely giving up hope on ANY honest regulators existing at the CFTC. I mean come on. Their THIRD investigation into Silver now going into the THIRD year and still not a peep with market volitily like this? WTF??
CFTC did a great job in screwing F/X traders in January! U.S. traders are limited to 50:1 leverage and metals trades are listed as Forex. I'm guessing some funkie ETF swap thing. Thank goodness I have the ability to trade naked (ETF's) AKA CFD's.
I have a question:
If JPM et al are naked short the silver market, is there enough silver available presently for them to buy their shorts back? Surely, as we are seeing, the lower the price the more and more silver gets taken from the 'market'. Well?
If JPM et al are naked short the silver market, is there enough silver available presently for them to buy their shorts back?
16.7 million oz removed from SLV in 1 day = JPM obtaining supply
The conspiracy never ends. They even killed Kenny. Those bastards!
I'm still waiting for the day when you make your first meaningful or honest post here.
Something also tells me that that day will never come.
Exactly!~
Monkey boy, you don't see this silver, oil market today as total market manipulation? Answer that one with a spin bud....
-
“Bless us and splash us, my preciousss!”
-
Gollum: They cursed us. Murderer they called us. They cursed us, and drove us away. And we wept, Precious, we wept to be so alone. And we only wish to catch fish so juicy sweet. And we forgot the taste of bread... the sound of trees... the softness of the wind. We even forgot our own name. My Precious.
How many junks does it take to silence this guy.
I have traded futures. I made a killing, got out and traded all my FRNs in for physical gold + silver. I don't care where the price ends up; I'll buy more when the decline stops. The real Red Baron was shot down by ground fire......you'll get shot down too. Of course we won't hear about it, but I'll smile anyway - smug fucks like you always lose. Enjoy it while you can, jackoff....
el sot-to
Don't buy paper.
Buy physical and remove it from the market.
They can't change the value of it like fiat over the long term.
What a shame to see so many on Zero Hedge get destroyed by putting all their eggs in one basket, and also trying to fight Uncle Gorilla.
In my 15-year trading career, I have never seen so many guys get wiped out so fast. Not even during the 2000 Nasdaq meltdown did we see moves like this.
Proof that if you fight Uncle Gorilla, you will be dead meat eventually.
You started trading when you were three? Incredible!
Uncle Gorilla is right...but don't get too confident. There's a lot of people still in the black and we still don't know how this is going to shake out. Are all the silver longs completely destroyed? Not sure. Some might have gotten on the right side of the trade and be waiting to get long again. it took 30 years to reach $50. Do you honestly think it will take another 30 to get there again?
Hehehe
Very good point.
Always have an itchy trigger finger.
Dont trust anyones advice, not even your own.
No we don't, what I do believe is that physical buying is going to ramp up now that this market ponzi has totally exposed itself.
This is a big lesson to many... and this is why I'm fully diversified in silver, gold, farmland, equities, and of course... some cash in different colours. One needs to maintain steady cashflows all the time and any excess cash is now being used to btfd in physical only. Like many I didn't think I would see these silver prices again. Last time we were here was early March 2011.
What a lot of bullshit.
SI futures were having daily moves well in excess of the initial margin itself as they were soaring towards $50. If anything the CME should have raised the margins much sooner.
Additionally, SI's 9- and 14-day RSI was higher than 95 late last week. This is almost unheard of. This sell-off was an accident waiting to happen and any idiot caught long deserves what came to them. Jim Rogers called it exactly right last week "I'm bullish PMs but if Silver really hits $50 now I sell all my holdings and I go short."
Whoever those guys were who bought all that ZSL and put options last week made out like freaking bandits. I wish I had the money to buy options. I can barely afford the gasoline to fulfill my campaign pledge. LOL
BTW the brokers who loan you margin money will put a lein on your house if you owe them money after a margin call and a forced sell. They did it to my Uncle.
Trading Rule #1: Do not trade with money you cannot afford to lose.
I wonder if 200,000,000 US Citizens bought a single one ounce Silver Coin this week.
Could all of them be served with physical delivery?
After all the Europeans are putting up vending machines that shit gold.
I have a lot of respect for you London.
You could have bought GLD and SLV weekly puts yesterday and made >1000% returns.
rule 3: "Don't get high on your own supply."
@LOndon Dude
"
What a lot of bullshit.
SI futures were having daily moves well in excess of the initial margin itself as they were soaring towards $50. If anything the CME should have raised the margins much sooner.
Additionally, SI's 9- and 14-day RSI was higher than 95 late last week. "
-
-
WOH there horsey!
WOOhh!
Now let's not get all rational and stuff like that!
It's unseemly.
Let us instead bemoan the cruel fate that treachery has delivered to us, stoic in our knowledge that our hearts were not at fault.
thank you my good sir.
Little Man - 0
Giant conglomerate global banking syndicate - 1
How many fucking times have I read on ZH about bankrupting Chase and Blythe. "Oooh, once silver hits $47 Chase will go belly-up and the whole bullshit financial system will collapse in on itself" Those were heady days of watching the little man gloat and giddy about how he was sticking it to Chase and Blythe.
Welcome to reality oh little man. It was a nice try. You collected as a small team, bought your trinkets of silver with your paltry paychecks, drove up silver and actually got the attention of what was truly a sleeping giant. The snarky comments and glimmers of brilliant insight were great, unfortunately the were not enough. The giant woke up and stepped on you like a cockroach. As cynical as you were you were also incredibly naive. You thought your actions mattered. I'm sure it was great to feel empowered for a few moments but in the end the giant needed to remind you who was really in control and they shoved you back with a smile and big fat 'fuck you, try and stop me' as they did it. Maybe there's some comfort in knowing you tried to do what's right, I'll leave that up to you.
Throw your tiny waves against the giant shore of the banking conglomerates hoping to erode them but in the end it is futile. Maybe someday the lilliputans will win...but not today.
The trolls are sure getting thick around here and everybody sure is fighting a lot. Why can't we all just burn it down?
Point well taken, couldn't agree more. Now with that said don't you agree it's a rigged market to take down oil and other commodities over 10% in the same day, lol? I'm not disagreeing there is a fiat fight going on world wide, probably needed.
But to try and spit in the face of the common person that is trying to protect there family and friend's with physical with those comments is bullshit. F.O.
Sleep well at night.
and actually got the attention of what was truly a sleeping giant
Yep, first time ever eh?,THAT in itself was a major victory,their criminals, we're honest blokes.
Won't be the last time they sweat bullets......matter of fact I think it will happen 10x's faster after this.
We will see who wins this in the end.
Buy paper and T/P! Reinvest in inflation hedges, LAND! and yes a balanced commodity portfolio.
The only paper I buy is shit paper and paper towels.
Good on you Moe. Keep up the (good) inflation adjusted work.
Feliz Cinco de Mayo and Happy Akshaya Tritiya!
Hoard physical and dump silver confetti paper.
RON PAUL headlined on Drudge!
http://www.drudgereport.com
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/05/05/cnn-poll-still-no-front-...
What's a nice girl like you reading smut like that?
Don't you know you will go blind!?
I hope J.D. wasn't too hard on the kitty last night (Jack Daniels)
Come on, it's Cinco de mayo.
Let's go. bottoms up!!!
Pasion Azteca shots.
janet has said some good things in the past but she should have kept her silence on this one....
what most people fail to understand is that the silver and gold markets are asymmetrical.....certain players have limits on what they can sell and are forced to supply collateral for trades....others, like the tbtf banksters can sell short unlimited amounts of silver - inventing it out of thin air just as the chairsatan does with his hp printer for frn - causing all kinds of corruptions in the market and price for silver...the assholes do not have to post collateral for their short sales.
the sec is in cahoots on this with the banksters and and so is the cftc.....the price of silver is not honest.....it has become a fantastic bargain but you will have to wait for the crooks' current activities to exhaust itself before prices rise again.
Yep Janet Tavakoli should stick to structured credit and leave commodity derivatives to those who understand them.
Well the next two years are going to be a complete and utter media circus of bullshit and spectacle.... new records will be set in spending in the run up to '12.
Buckle up and buy the PM dips. The Tea Party might exist in the hearts and minds of some, but that will become a bitter disappointment for those expecting change.
If Ron Paul got nominated, it would be an exciting race, but he won't be allowed to win...it's not like shenanigans haven't gone down before.
Wow a ten-bagger in a few days! Amazing!! I wish I were so lucky...So, let me guess. A ten bagger and now you have 10x more silver. Or gold. Maybe Pd or Pt?. Diamonds even. No? Oh, you have fiat currency!!!
The patsy is the one still playing the banksters game when eveyone else has left. I'll let you guess who is the patsy today.
When is the collapse?
haha, I know right?
I am ready!
Sell GPL.
I need more.
LMAO MyNhair! Spell that acronym out so every one can enjoy it!
You HAVE to tell me - whatzit mean?
Heeeeeere's Timmy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Lo4NCXOX0p8
Yeah, this BULLSHIT of the predator-that-be crowd (government, federal reserve, large banksters (owners of FR)) manipulating things to suit their personal agendas is CRIMINAL.
At this point, why anyone would hold any paper asset is beyond my understanding. These predators have made it completely clear they intend to destroy every honest, ethical, prudent, reality-oriented, liberty-oriented being on earth.
Screw them. Stick it to them. Sell all paper assets and buy physical silver and gold. This is probably the best chance we'll ever get for a great price. If lots of people buy physical silver, the price will explode.
"Speculators rushed in as prices recently soared and rumors swirled that there will be a delivery default at the CME including one of the TBTF banks with a huge short position that it cannot cover."
Where would anyone get a silly, stupid idea like that?
Junk away.
Now to go buy silver $5 above spot price, because we will never see premiums in the $3-$3.50 range (for eagles and maples) ever again.
smile and be happy. tomorrow's gonna be a big day, so get your cash out and add, add, add. apmex had a "variety" tube of AE's for $40ea. & change ($800.00 roll) with delivery by 5/13 when I checked a few minutes ago, hello? people were buying AND selling these for $1200-1300 a roll last week on ebay. $500 ain't chump change guys. 'bout time for our chinese friends to add to their holdings, along with the indians, sri lankans, congolese, thais, koreans, brazilians, and NYC cab drivers. i bought 10 rolls old bank wrapped mercury dimes today at $123 each, they were going for $150-200 last week. it's definetly time to load up if you can. like i always say, " 2 Mercury dimes bought a gallon of gas in 1950, 2 Mercury dimes buys a gallon of gas TODAY, with change back". suck on that TROLLS. have a great day. catch me on Ebay sometime, "sgorem1949". never know what the hell you might find. austa manana amigos.....
$40 for eagles (when silver is around $35.00)!? We will never see a bargain like this in our lifetime again!
I would like to add to my holdings, but not until delusional Apmex and Gainesville stops trying to tack larger unneccessary premiums on to their coins.
Why doesn't anyone buy Philharmonics? The premium for these coins is about $3.50.
Nah. I am staying with Silver Bullion Coin from USA.
Bullion Direct would be a good place to look. Along with several other ... juicy tidbits scattered about Zero Hedge.
It is but a step from there to buying Bullion Bars to reduce the bulk taking up the vault at the place I store it.
Bars are not a bad idea either, but the premium on those seems to be high as well. I want to see the premiums go back to normal. I don't think there is anyway these higher premiums will be permanent.
We will find out in the morning.
If the Silver Physical drops in price while the Seller maintains a healthy profit on current premium over spot without raising it too much; it's hard not to keep buying on the way down.
If I was a seller of Physical for a living, I would be very tempted to raise premiums a little each hour but that would be greedy and dishonest.
I never sell, only buy. Ask me again sometime in the future.
<-- praying for more artifical draw down so i can load up on moar.
I recall our family had a 40 foot barge that required a 30 gallon fillup...8.70 on .29 gasoline. The Barge would have survived another 50 years if the incoming trend towards "Compact Car" parking in the towers of the day along with the first Arab Oil Embargo put it into the Junkyard.
I recall the mid 70's as a difficult time. However, all is well.
With a massive QE3 guaranteed (unemployment soaring, food stamp use exponentially increasing, banks insolvency growing, and on and on), I had to add today...gold, plt and pall and silver are already soaring up again in the Asian markets as the DPE (Dollar Plunge Expectation) rises.
BTW, why isn't there a circuit breaker to stop the falling of commodities? Why do they only limit the upside for investors?
GL!
Truth still is: Peak oil is real, the US in not the only player anymore- it has mortgaged its true wealth to the filthy rich, buried itself in debt, rhetoric, left over military muscle, and desperate posturing believing its own lies. The charade of the two party system is entering the agonal stage-soon everyone will realize that Obama,Trichet,Sarkozy,Merkel, The Tea party, The GOP, etc are all serving the same masters.
The consequences of the fuse ignited in the middle East are unknown and unpredictable. So are the consequences of destroying the welfare State in Meridional Europe, Ireland and Eastern Europe. The masses had a taste of what could have been, but won't be, and they have the genetic memory for mayhem and revolution.
Asia and Latin America are moving in unpredictable directions, as far as the West is concerned.
The game is new and no one knows the outcome. Change is always good. Things are dead and they have to be destroyed and done over. Inevitable. This is the beginning of the end without a doubt.
Gold will find support tomorrow at around 1452 when it crosses the 40 day SMA. Then either it will be flat for a while then slide down further, or else it will rebound off the 40 and retest highs unsuccessfully once or twice. Either way, by mid summer it will drop down to touch base with the 150 SMA. It will rebound off the 150, restarting the cycle, repeating its pattern from late July '10 and late Jan '11. And if QE3 launches, it will be a robust climb, peaking around $1800 in November.
Silver will follow gold, falling harder, but rebounding at nearly the same time. Support finally at 32. But not for long, it will keep slipping. This is not the popping of a bubble, it is a steep correction after being very oversold. Or you might say it is the popping of a minibubble. But it's not going back to $4 or even $18.
Gold chart:
http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=$GOLD&p=D&yr=2&mn=0&dy=0&id=p41786068496
Silver Psyops News Wires - Manipulation pieces abound
'm holding quite a bit of physical, and wont turn it loose this generation.
This current silver rout is an obvious raid by da boys. They must be getting hurt bad by silver launching into orbit, They have gone as far as to release fake news releases saying that buffett just sold all his silver. I Guess they forgot that its well known that he sold it all many years ago.
check out this hilarious "article" I found posted over at the kitco silver forum....
----------------------------------------
Warren Buffett sold 130 Million Ounces of Silver - May 2nd
News Wire
May 5th, 2011
We sold coca-cola co because he sold it. We took a second look at banking stocks thanks to him in 2008. Now what are we supposed to do? Sell short silver because investor superstar Warren Buffet has decided to sell off the 130 million ounces of silver last Monday on May 2, 2011 that he aquired back in July of 1997.
Asked why he decided to divest, buffet had this to say, "I didnt want to sell short on this economy, but at $50 Silver seemed expensive."
The last time anyone took a shine to silver this intense was in the late 1970s and early 1980s when Nelson Bunker Hunt and his two brothers attempted to corner the world silver market. Silver shot up to more than $49 an ounce in 1980 - up from about $6 low in 1979, according to the Silver Insitute, a trade group in Washington, D.C.
The Hunts' scheme went bust, and silver fell to about $8 an ounce in 1982. By 1991, silver was as low as $3.54.
"They often say of Warren Buffet that "he'll sell a dollar for $1.50," said Stevin Hoover, chief executive officer of Hoover Capital Management Inc. in Boston.
Already, Buffett's move has proven to be shrewd. Silver prices have lost over 20 percent in the last 4 days, since Monday.
Hoover, whose firm has bout $1.5 Billion invested in the market, said he doesn't think Buffet is out to make a short-term commodities bet. But who knows? Did buffet sell because he is going to buy it all back again in a few months? Probably not.
"Once the average Joe Schmoe, like you and me, finds out, it's too late," said W. Howard Morris, president and chief investment officer of WILMO-CO Capital Management in Detroit.
Analysts wonder just how low prices for silver can go. If you jumped in when silver was $45 - $50 dollars an ounce, some say, there's a good chance prices could fall back to old, recent levels of $23 or $25, which is where the long-term support line for silver is now.
"At this piont to go into silver you are taking a substantial risk," said Edward Hernandez, a broker at A.G. Edwards & Sons.
Last edited by Customer411 : 05-05-2011 at 04:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
Yup they've gone full bullshit. This piece is a lie. Buffet sold silver in 2006. Let's put this in circle jerk perspective. Blackrock and blackstone and blackcunt and all the black rocky derivatives are japanese fucked and japanese fucked hard. Buffet is insurance fucked and insurance fucked hard. JP morgan is put fucked and put fucked hard.
Buffet needs 1.5 billion. He aint got it. He fake sells 1.5 billion silver and hands over counterfeit money.
Cats hiding their cat shit.
http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2011/05/05/a-i-g-s-1st-quarter-net-income-tu...
http://www.silvermonthly.com/162/analyzing-warren-buffetts-investment-in...
I'm sick of living with these giant fucktards that think they can photoshop birth certificates, photo shop silver.
If buffets 130 million ounces really did go into the market. That shit is going to get gobbled up in a heart beat. And if it really is out there as supply they bought 3 weeks at best.
130 million ounces.... isnt that 4000 tons? Or have I been up too long to think tonight?
I think in a market like this that would have evaporated easily.
This is total bullshit. I swear I read an article six months ago that he dumped all his physical silver and was out of the market. Then the comment, "Once the average Joe Schmoe, like you and me, finds out, it's too late," from the WILMO-CO Capital Management. Who in the fuck would use that firm if that's what they think? I can find out too late on my own.
Bullshit. I looked again in my backyard to see if the old fucker Buffet dug up my stash. No signs of disturbance, so I guess I am not the average Joe Schmoe and it's not too late for me. That mofo must not be able to cover his insurance losses in Japan and is trying to manipulate the markets to rape us to pay for it. No go Warren, I don't hold paper and I don't sell my physical PMs. Fuck off.
The CFTC sucks Rothschild cock,and gets paid to have one cock in their ear,and another in their eye's.
What a fucking joke the whole USA establishment is.
I wish the citizens freedom and release from this domestic terrorism one day.
Eat their crap too
Aint no freedom in the US. It is Fuckdom and you are at the receiving end.
Suspicious market manipulation...surely you jest!
So they shorted out the marginal longs & got themselves some more crap fiat. Big deal.
Hey, where have your silver posts gone during the crash? Anyway, it was a clear bubble and predicted by many here.
34,26. its getting too fast. Just a reminder of how the March 13th graph looked like- it does go down fast, I myself can not tell from the graph how fast from top to bottom- to little pixels. Its now 11 days from intraday top of 49,72, so its a 29,5% correction in 11 days. Not bad.
http://saposjoint.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2626&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=40#p31020
In the original chart, if i magnify it, peak to bottom seems to be 13-17 days. That is latest next Wednesday? Lets say, next week silver will bottom out.At around 25-30.
By "many" you mean a bunch of paid trolls with who-knows-how-many accounts per person, including yourself.
Oh, and if anyone wants a clue.... for some reason, the paid trolls have repeatedly suggested people to not buy before stuff reaching 25$.
If you want to take that as an indication that the manipulators will not out of own choice push it to that level, is up to you.... my buy signal was 36.... i missed and "accidentally" bought at 35$.
ballast is ballast ....
regardless
of a fiat value....
honorable nautical bytches
I've heard that supposedly the amount of physical gold would be just shy of filling 2 olympic swimming pools...do we have a fair assumption of what the amount of physical silver is?
Worldwide or available to be bought? AFAIK, worldwide stats are known, yet those available on the "market" are...... let's say "magical".
Fair enough, I can account for a whole 2oz and 8 grams physical...I'm just getting started, late to the party, but have been watching this very closely for quite some time...I'm just amazed though, hearing about all these players buying "monster boxes" of ASEs and 100oz bars like it's no thing.
Some people may say something different, but i'm not as "bullish" on silver as some others are here.
I do not disagree with the fundamentals - not at all. I just give the "paper"-leverage higher weight and the ideological aspect lower weight (i'm not gonna save the world, just cover my ass from a collapsing financial system).
So, from my more "pragmatic" agenda, my view is this:
- I'm not buying to win. Winning is a nice bonus, but more importantly i do not want to lose, and i do not want to be "defenseless" when SHTF. I'm in this truely simply as a financial emergency insurance. Which by the way is why i too do not hold large amounts of PM.... just enough to if necessary get through a financial crisis.
- I'm not putting all my trust in silver - not as long as paper has so much leverage over it. I in the basket see it as the "spice", not the bread.... that asset that has high potential upwards, but also traditionally is unreliable.
Anyways, as for worldwide total silver, the supply is higher than gold, but by far not as high as the current silver/gold ratio (thats part of why people do think, that IF (unbacked) paper silver would go away, prices would spike up). But as you can see right now, even if that were true, paper silver will not go away without a war with the regulators.... and i personally doubt that this war can be won without the mainstream getting involved.
When will Math Man call the bottom?
Please, if silver and gold had done a moon shot you would have had no sympathy for those of us with no PM.
I really do have enough Silver for a useless eater for when the comex defaults. You won't catch me plucking daisy petals until it does though. I will buy Silver until the beast stops moving.
The current and future price of PMs are not dependent on charts but entirely on the decision of the corrupting Banks/CFTC. That is, until the comex, lbma etc blow up.
If the cartel can simply naked short to any degree they desire with the back of BB's printing machine then you have no market.
The current price of metals bears no relationship to what they would be on an unadulterated market. Who knows what that price would be.
But I am waiting for the day that the past and present members of the CFTC are dealt with in the courts, and then in prisons. That day may never come. But there is hope as inevitably BB will need to keep printing to keep the US alive and that moves us toward hyperinflation once confidence in the currency is lost.
It is in the turmoil following a total economic break down that the corrupt regulators across all fields will be identified as the first and most critical failure of the system.
Hi guys,
just introducing myself here. Glad to be part of this community!!
Welcome. BTFD.
Now it is golds turn to dive from 1485 currently to 1393 (35 week moving average)
Silver will not bottom until mid-june. Same with gold.
Well, maybe You should BTFD in silver instead of stocks ;)
IF silver is not important, why keep hiking margin rates????
someone help me understand...
so the Hunt Brothers were fleeced and bankrupted by banks calling in margins by central banker Volkers regulatory changes that led directly to bankers hammer-down on leverage with 3 days notice causing a Silver price collapse and absolute carnage in the market
what a great regulatory change that was?
..sounds much like the regulatory change, from annual to monthly settlements, that bled AIG dry and 'paid out' to in prime position to cash in Golman Sucks helping bankrupt AIG
what a great regulatory change that was??
and very similar to the disgusting and absolutely farcical CME machine gun margin calls that collapsed the Silver price and caused private investor carnage
what a great rule change, rule change, rule change, rule change, rules change (5 in 8 days) that was???
who says regulators smooth out markets? Their history is patently of causing price collapses, carnage and bankruptcies by changing the rules (for the benefit of some)
Perth mint could not supply any physical silver today.
Perth mint could not supply any physical silver today.
I was browsing the physical Silver this morning and the premiums for Physical are a bit high.... LOL