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Guest Post: The Twin Pillars Of Civilization
The next post in a continuing series (most recently "RIP, Homo Economicus") by Free Radical
The Twin Pillars Of Cilivization
Gold is the child of Zeus.
– Pindar, circa 500 BCE
What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others.
– Confucius, circa 500 BCE
Without money, there can be little in the way of economic specialization, or what is commonly known as the division of labor. And without the division of labor, there can be little in the way of civilization. In pre-agricultural hunter-gatherer society, labor is primarily limited to these two endeavors, the hunting generally done by men and the gathering by women. So, too, is labor limited in early agricultural society, the men generally doing the farming and women the domestic work. And while proto-money might be involved, economic exchange is generally limited to barter, which requires a coincidence of wants that is far too inelastic to allow for the manifold exchange of goods and services that is the lifeblood of civil society.
Money, in other words, is essential to any society that we would call civil, prompting us to ask what, in fact, money is and how it comes to be. The answer, simply enough, is that money becomes what it is through the very same process of exchange upon which civil society depends:
If one good is more marketable than another – if everyone is confident that it will be more readily sold – then it will come into greater demand because it will be used as a medium of exchange. It will be the medium through which one specialist can exchange his product for the goods of other specialists.
Now just as in nature there is a great variety of skills and resources, so there is a variety in the marketability of goods. Some goods are more widely demanded than others, some are more divisible into smaller units without loss of value, some more durable over long periods of time, some more transportable over large distances. All of these advantages make for greater marketability. It is clear that in every society, the most marketable goods will be gradually selected as the media for exchange. As they are more and more selected as media, the demand for them increases because of this use, and so they become even more marketable. The result is a reinforcing spiral: more marketability causes wider use as a medium, which causes more marketability, etc. Eventually one or two commodities are used as general media – in almost all exchanges - and these are called money.
Money, then, is simply a commodity that, as an inherent store of value, is used as a medium of exchange. And given its considerable attributes – e.g., beauty, density, indestructibility, malleability, homogeneity, divisibility, transportability – it is little wonder that, over time, gold became the commodity of choice, the preeminent medium of exchange the world over. Nor is it any wonder that with the subsequent emergence of banknotes and other fiduciary media, which greatly facilitated indirect exchange and therefore the division of labor, it was gold that usually backed them up.
Gold, then, is a good that is especially good as the money upon which civil society depends. So good, in fact, that if something is said to be “as good as gold,” it is receiving what is understood to be the highest possible praise, just as that which is described as “golden” – a golden moment, for example – is understood to be “of the greatest value or importance.” And thus does it come as no surprise that the ethic of reciprocity, all but unknown in this terminology, has been accepted the world over as the golden rule:
The nearly universal acceptance of the golden rule and its promulgation by persons of considerable intelligence, though otherwise of divergent outlooks, would seem to provide some evidence for the claim that it is a fundamental ethical truth.1
The preeminent moral precept of virtually every major religion and culture in human history, the golden rule is indeed a fundamental ethical truth that is as precious to civil society as the metal itself is. Thus, it is not too much to say that as gold has historically been the foremost currency of commerce, the golden rule has been the foremost currency of morals, the ethic that civil society has always “banked on” in one form or another. Nor is it too much to say, then, that together, gold and the golden rule stand as the twin pillars of civilization – the means by which individuals have traditionally cooperated to improve their lot in life, there being no other reason for civil society to exist:
The idea that anybody would have fared better under an asocial state of mankind and is wronged by the very existence of society is absurd. Thanks to the higher productivity of social cooperation, the human species has multiplied far beyond the margin of subsistence.
Indeed it has. And if left to its own devices – i.e., if its members are allowed to interact freely and of their own accord – the human species will use its commodity money and its common morality to continually improve its overall wellbeing.
But let us ask, what is so important about acting freely, and why is this so vital to the advance of civil society?
We address this question in my next submission: “The Metaphysics of Freedom.”
1. Marcus G. Singer, The Encyclopedia of Philosophy, MacMillan Publishing, 1967, p. 366
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A Plan for Project Mayhem:
Late night philosophizing and researching led me to this Q&A section with the founders of PayPal. In the video, Peter Thiel talks about how PayPal is NOT a bank but is a payment processor. They do not engage in fractional reserve lending.
The implication of this is huge. PayPal is the ONLY "full-reserve bank" in existence because they store funds but do not loan it out. They do not need FDIC insurance because PayPal cannot have a bank run by design.
Eric Cantana called for a European bank revolt via a withdrawal of funds into cash. That is highly unfeasible because digital cash and electronic payment is a necessity of modern life. Instead:
Project Mayhem starts now, carpe diem.
http://unconstitutional.blogspot.com
Only full-reserve bank?
You are missing http://goldmoney.com here.
And apart from that, paypal is based on fiat currencies right?
Yes I am. Point is that for now, fiat currencies and electronic payments are a fact of modern life. PayPal is the only feasible alternative for the majority of Americans who can't afford to have "special bullion vaults in London" and need quick access to cash to pay for groceries, etc.
Only? Did you read the article?
-1
"...electronic payments are a fact of modern life"
Modern Life as you have known it for the last 20-30 years.
VERY small timescale sampling.
The NEXT 20-30 years? Hmmm Not so certain.
If you have to ask permission to some other body for access to YOUR money, It isn'T YOUR money.
That distinction may be revealed painfully in the not too distant future. And when it happens, I wouldn't bet on getting Your money from the one you are currently trusting it to.
*Double post*
http://psychonews.site90.net
You can bet that vault operations, safe manufacturing, and security in general will all be lucrative (but dangerous) industries in the next few years.
Travel to other countries, what do you see? Security guards in grocery stores and pharmacies. Thats what the 'Developed' world will look like, as well, in the next few years! You will have tabs with local establishments, and once the tab hits the value of one gold (or silver) coin you will be expected to transfer either the (redeemable) note or the actual gold coin.
Sound money, please, if I live long enough to see anything change in this life, let it be this!
Read our latest PsychoNews story: "Funny Money, Manic Markets, and Obsolete Media"
"Senator Bernie Sanders from Vermont delivered an amazing speech in the Senate on December 2nd that was right on the money in regards to the problems America (and by extension, the world) faces.
To quote:
"There is a war going on, and I'm not referring to the war in Iraq and Afghanistan"
"Against the disappearing and shrinking middle class of this country."
"Their [billionaires/Oligarchy] greed has no end"
"[there seems to be] very little concern for the people if it gets in the way of accumulating more and more power"
"top 1% of all earners earn 23% of all the income in this country"
"Exxon made $19 billion last year and paid $0 in taxes. They got a refund..."
(12 minutes into video)
Sounds like Senator Bernie Sanders has been reading PsychoNews!
http://psychonews.site90.net
I was in Argentina 6 months after the devaluing of the Peso. My friend(native) showed me how the banks all had corregated steel over the windows.
One day the Peso was worth 1 dollar, next day 50cents.
Oh, and a lesson. The folks could only withdraw 1000 pesos a month regardless of their balance.
I learned my lesson. Have you?
Maybe your PAL will PAY you maybe your PAYPAL won't.
Again, If you have to ask someone else for access to your money, IT AIN'T YOUR MONEY.
And don't count on the ATMs in an emergency they will be empty in an hour.
Oh, and HERD, EDIT your duplicate post and delete all the verbage. Clean up your mistake.... Thanks.
@ mad hatter:
PayPal is elite establishment scum in my book. Any system that supports the fiat currency fraud is a tool. Go with gold systems. Dufund all monopolies of adjudication or enforcement (conventional "governments"), especialy those that prey upon people using fiat currencies.
Ever had an issue with wyour money in PayPal?.
You do not want to go there.Owned by eBay, and are a bitch to do business with if you have an issue, and they WITHOLD your funds also.
I trust them less than the Banks.
Paypal?
I'd rather keep my money in cash then to put it over there.
YOU SEEM TO FORGET THE 4% MONEY TRANSFER FEE!
And if it would only for the currency, my broker platform allows me to simply change my funds into any currency I want.
So take a internet bank. These aren't bound like regular banks.
The 4% fee is to receive money. Don't use it for that. Use paypal as a regular bank card/credit card to pay for stuff.
$3.20 fee on a $100 sale
$3,000+ to $10,000 2.5% + $0.30*$2.80 fee on a $100 sale
$10,000+ 2.2% + $0.30*$2.50 fee on a $100 sale
Ummm, I really don't think you're familiar with the history of PayPal. Trusting all of your money to them is a fools' errand, IMO. Here's some history:
http://paypalsucks.com/
Paypal will do what they want to with your money, and once they have it, you have a lot less protections in getting it back.
Use PayPal to buy PM if you wish. But only a compete idiot would trust them with their money.
Those are experiences of people who have set off red flags with with PayPal, mostly by selling stuff on ebay and not sending it etc. Don't use it for ebay. Use it as a regular debit/credit card and you should have no problems.
Eventually someone will make a specialized alternative catered to people who do not want their currency to be put through the fractional-reserve lending system.
All I can say is that a fool and their money are soon parted.
Good luck.
I have tens of thousands with them for my business account with no problems.
I've used Paypal since 1998 along with my website and eBay account -- never one problem of any kind. If you read those "horror stories" you'll get a sense of people who have a screw partially loose.
My 'red flag' was simply travelling to Brazil. They did not let me confirm I really was travelling, like any decent bank, they blocked my account three times and acted like the presidents of the planetary congress. I have rarely enjoyed worse customer experience, and decided I would not let these racketeers clean my left shoe even if it was a fucking flip flop.
fuck paypal. assholes passed judgement on wikileaks. who do they think they are, the gobernment???
i just canceled my account because of it.
Agreed... did the same over the weekend. While it is an inconvenience because it was a very useful service they have demonstrated they are a grovelling tool of the authoritarian wannabees.... and so they can get stuffed as far as I am concerned.
The devil is in the details.
Paypal is evil.
Like most [large] companies, their agreements give them total freedom to lie, scam, cheat, steal, defraud and mislead. We must stop elevating such slime to a high level just because they are not guilty of one single transgression (fractional reserve practices).
Sheesh.
Please stop the Paypal pumping. You're worse than Robo pimping whores.
The only "full reserve bank" in existence is the bank of mom and pop (my wife & myself) who loan out money to our children on a regular basis at zero interest and with the mutual understanding that it will never get paid back -- ever. That is a real bank.
Moving on, although Paypal would be the next best "bank" to store your money, I'd have to say, Paypal presents yet another moral hazard- that of funding a gov't controlled, spinless wanker bank that does anything under a little pressure (ie close down WL's accounts). Therefore with great regret, I must say, we have little options remaining except to withdrawl most cash (95%) and buy physical gold silver (and all PM's for that matter) as the last resort. I have already taken action months ago...
You obviously have no idea how rude it is to hijack posts with completely off-topic comments, no matter how worthy of discussion.
You owe Tyler and the author an apology.
But financing is not money, it is the business of money. It is in this endeavor that our current economic problems are rooted.
fractional reserve practices must end.
"Ron Paul's Golden Opportunity" WSJ (most likely previously posted on ZH)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405274870431250457561849424059316...
Why use paypal when you can use goldmoney.com goldgrams? (Or their silver ounces?)
Have you tried paying for gas with goldgrams?
LOL....
Exactly.
That's why I'd rather keep physical coins.
CNI is located 20 minutes away, I can go down there and get cash for my coins in less than 10 minutes after entering the store and no 1099 if less than $10,000.
Same thing if I want to buy.
If gold gets killed after a brutal correction, I go down there with cash and walk out with gold in 10 minutes....
Yeah but for now dollars are still accepted everywhere. You can use PayPal for regular purchases like gas and food and keep your dollars out of the fractional-reserve lending system.
Or I could use cash and not depend on a fickle Paypal. Or if I want to buy online I use a credit card and pay it off at the end of the month. Seems like taking a really unnecessary and possibly fool hardy step. Just use cash.
If you have the option of using cash then go for it. I am offering an alternative for those who can't do business without electronic payments.
Fickle is a diplomatic way of putting it. Paypal is OK if you don't mind their deceptive and ever-changing terms of service, lack of consumer protection, and are willing to risk their explanation-free confiscation of your cash.
So what does a PayPal "Dollar Bill" look like?
Can I put them in my pocket?
Can I use them without any "Electronic" connections?
If the answer to that last one is No, Then they are WORTHLESS Period.
Impoverishment at the flip of a switch.
Numbers on your screen. If we followed your rationale then all currencies are worthless.
That may be true in the future but for now I'm working with what we've got.
Numbers on your screen. If we followed your rationale then all currencies are worthless.
No, The Currency in my pocket isn't on my screen.
The difference in currency is that the currency I have today is based on a loan somewhere to someone.
The Currency in my pocket in 1965 was based on 1oz of silver that I could walk into any bank and demand.
Going forward, the Electronic currency may not be available to you when you want it.
Paraphrasing John Lennon
Imagine an ATM that is empty, It's easy if you try...
no 1099 if less than $10,000
Robot, sorry Bro, that's over Jan 1st.
credit unions have atm cards, and they serve their members. I don't know if they lend more than their deposit base.
yes, they are a part of the fractional reserve banking system.
No, but I do pay for gasoline with gold bullion.
Really, I should say "did", because as of recently I find it difficult to part with my gold or silver.
But until very recently (when I considered the results to be solid) I ran a 3 year experiment to see how much I could buy with gold or silver bullion.
At the start, I could only buy about 27% with gold bullion. Gradually I became better at giving reasons stores, people and companies should accept gold from me. When I gave up the experiment recently the numbers were 96% and 98% (depending on whether you ask "which percentage of goods" or "what percentage of value measured in dollars").
So yes, I can pay for gasoline, groceries, electronics, rent, and just about everything else with gold.
No one's gonna get paid by me with anything but soon-to-be-worthless Fiat, UNTIL stabilization AFTER the Great Implosion.
+1. The experiment was interesting though. Also interesting is the timeframe. 2007-2010, and that more people are willing to take gold as time goes on.
Yes, I believe that's true. But I also believe I found better ways to discuss the issue. Though I have no way to determine which aspect was more important, I suspect the growing respect for gold and silver was more important... especially in the last year or so.
Amen,
Keep your physical, unless your 100% in it, then you have to pay FRNs to live.And while they take it (for how long), use it.
+1000
To clarify, I use both paypal and a credit union ATM card, as well as a cash back Amex, for day to day transactions. I use goldmoney.com for _savings_.
+1
I use it too. And for the person earlier who implied "ordinary Americans" can't afford "a special vault in London." I started my account with $50US. I'm very ordinary in that I'm not rich. I use it as a savings account.
Pretty sure this entire essay (50 pages or so) is on mises.org under the title of this post. I highly recommend it
But let us ask, what is so important about acting freely, and why is this so vital to the advance of civil society?
Because incentives matter and that's more or less what economics is all about.
get your Groupon Bitchez!
"Money, in other words, is essential to any society that we would call civil"
This is stated as Axiomatic, but it is simply untrue, and easily controvertible. Just ask the Tlingit or Haida, or any of the Pacific Northwest tribes that worked under the Gift Economy of Potlatch.
The idea we will maintain payment systems like Paypal or Credit Cards as the Age of Oil comes to a close is ludicrous. Its not going to happen. It all requires the massive structure of the Internet, which consumes 10% of the electricity produced in the FSofA at current estimates.
People who write this sort of trash are so immersed in the money paradigm they cannot even IMAGINE how you function without it, and they constantly refer back to Gold as a Store of Wealth. It is PATHETIC. Gold isn't Wealth Storage any more than Cowrie Shells were. Once nobody in Africa ould take a Cowrie Shell as Money, Cowrie Shells ceased to be a store of wealth. Its that simple. There is no fundamental reason that Gold will in perpetuity be considered a store of wealth. It may continue to work that way for a while, but its essentially a chimera that is based on having some surplus in the economy. When there is no surplus of food, Gold will be quite worthless, you won't be able to trade a Gold Eagle for a Twinkie.
RE
+1
Money is whatever the powers decree that it should be.
Basically I believe that all money is counterfeit, it is a theory and not a discovery.
They will throw their silver into the streets, and their gold will be an unclean thing. Their silver and gold will not be able to save them in the day of the LORD's wrath. They will not satisfy their hunger or fill their stomachs with it, for it has made them stumble into sin.
Ezekiel 7:19
All things derive their value from food, beyond that anything is a lie.
Okay, I am happy to give you a 10 lifetime supply of food in exchange for terminating your supply of oxygen.
Of course, after 10 minutes you're dead and I can take back the food you just abandoned.
Sigh.
What's your point??
The Bible doesn't have all answers.
Sure it does, you just may not like some of them.
Show me where the Bible describes how to program in C, or write SIMD/SSE3+ assembly language, or design a lossless data compression algorithm... or any of millions of others.
Sigh.
All things derive their value from food.
My point was, he is stupid to say that. For example, oxygen (and water, and limited temperature range, and many other things) have value to. Sheesh.
I imagine your kingdoms would be highly uncivilized.
You probably make a great follower.
I pay no allegience to inbreds and their thinking.
Still haven't learned what fractional reserve banking is? Tsk tsk. Do your kids a favor and sit them down for this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVkFb26u9g8
That's very profound, thanks for pointing that out to me.
Problem.
Fractional reserve banking requires DEMAND to expand the money supply, so the system is short circuited.
Get it?
What would you conclude from my statement?
You're not very good at connecting the dots. Above you wrote:
Money is whatever the powers decree that it should be.
Fiat currency is forced demand, by law, and is used to loot the producers.
Get it?
How about a specific question: What do you propose as a means of exchange?
You wrote:
All things derive their value from food, beyond that anything is a lie.
The parties of a transaction agree on what value is. Fraud is different.
Same as any medium of exchange which has compounding interest attached to it.
(Reposted from WDD)
The system is unsustainable, always has been.
One ounce of gold lent out at 3% compounded annually.
Year 1 - 1.03oz
Not bad
Year 20 - 1.81oz
Not bad
Year 50 - 4.38oz
still not bad
Year 100 - 19.22oz
still not bad
Year 200 - 369.36oz
still not bad
Year 500 - 2,621,877.23oz
problem will robinson
Year 750 - 4,245,399,152.55oz
holy shit
Year 1000 - 6,874,240,231,169.63oz
unforunately there is only 4.5b oz. that has been mined
Now imagine billions of stupid humans doing the same thing... basically 60-80 years if you are lucky or unlucky.
Wait, calculate that again for me without the compound interest part.
Oh, it's quite irrelevant (your ideals). This is the real world and you don't get to make the rules. You are ruled.
Have you filed your UCC-1 yet? What are you waiting for?
If not, you're a flesh and blood slave and you'll abide by whatever rules you're told to abide by. Period. No matter what pet delusions you entertain.
Do let us know how the IRS audit goes, that is, if you truly believe in the UCC.
Not trying to get away without paying taxes.
Gov't no longer holds my bond and I'm no longer a ward of the state
... that you're smokin' your own belly button lint.
Consumers request commercial banks to manufacture money. There is very little lending going on. What do you think the subprime debacle was about? Scraping the bottom of the barrel for demand. What don't you udnerstand?
I don't think you're mentally challenged.
I know you are.
Edit: you're not interested in refuting my arguments. You want to play stupid games. If your posts werent so irrelevant and retarded you wouldnt continuously edit the content of them, clown.
JD you are the ultimate defeatist.
No, I just see you all marching lockstep with Bernanke and have decided to go the other way as fast as possible.
The US consumer is the primary driver of inflation by requesting money to be manufactured. Bernanke is simply keeping the game going as long as possible to keep you all from freaking out and withdrawing your currency from circulation by appearing to reverse engineer inflation through currency debasement.
Unfortunately for 99% of people, they are believing in him whether tacitly or not. Believing he will spark inflation by design or hyperinflation by ineptness...both lead down the same road.
Ultimately I seek truth. Seeking to prove my assumptions wrong rather than right has lead me to where I am. Only time will tell if I'm correct. On a long enough timeline...
I would be happy to take any gold off your hands that you may have since it to will likely becomes worthless as a store of wealth, keep the Cowrie shells though.
I live in Alaska dimwit. Within 15 miles of my cabin there are at least 6 streams I can pan up a couple of grams of Gold a day, and at the current ridiculous price I can sell it off at $1400 or so for a months worth of sitting by the stream swishing around the dirt. I occassionally do go out and pan up some gold for fun, but the idea that I will be able to use this pile of metal to buy food here when things get tough is preposterous. Anybody can go pan up Gold. Fishing up enough to live on is a bit harder.
RE
An uncharitable man might be moved to argue that the economic systems of the Tlingit, Haida, et al demonstrated a considerably shorter mean time to failure than money based economy.
As for you assertions re the consequences of "The End of Oil", I'll call that hand. Plenty of very promising nuke designs on the way, just waiting for the regulators to get out of the way. Which, in a genuine shortage, they will. YIMBYFAP. There wil be no shortage of juice.
Not only that, but earth is a 7800 mile diameter ball of extremely hot molten lava... with a very thin crust of [very useful] cooled minerals on top. Given 10% of the resources handed to the international ganster banksters and their cronies since 2008, sufficient geothermal energy could be tapped to power the earth 10 times over.
Most people have no freaking idea how astronomical the theft by the predators-that-be has been in the past couple years.
Well we need to bring the production of 4 saudi arabias online in the next ten years to meet demand. How likely is that to happen?
The US military sez the global oil surplus will evaporate by 2015. Complex societies require a 20% surplus.
??
LOL
http://www.peakoil.net/files/JOE2010.pdf
Joint Operating Environment..US military report
If the money spent to bail out the predators-that-be (central banks and their owners - mostly mega-banks) was instead invested in geothermal energy, the energy requirements of the USA, and probably the entire world, would be more than met.
That's a fact.
That's why I try to get people to understand how egregiously huge the quantity of resources is that was funneled to those predators.
And people wonder why the world economy is going down the tubes, even as more and more efficient technologies are developed. Answer: Even the most productive folks and the greatest advances in efficiency cannot begin to compensate for the destruction by the predators-that-be and the predator class. Go check out the numbers for yourself if you don't believe me.
If if was a fifth, we'd all be drunk
That estimate is based on
1) myth of inelastic demand. If supplies drop, price rises, demand will fall.
2) Assumption of steady state economy. To this day, most petro consumption is commercial – pushing goods form point of production to point of sale. LOT less of that in a depression.
Ironically, our silly policies about finance have resulted in a situation that will give us very useful breathing space to deal with the results of our silly polices on energy.
And, while I trust our military to blow shit up, resource forecasting is not exactly their strong suit. And, if you will forgive me for asking, did You respect their opinions beFore they lined up with yours?
all those central banks buying gold, must be clueless. you should contact them, and set them straight. all these silly people infatuated with some barbarous relic. how primative. when there is no surplus of food, who will eat, the man with gold, or the man with beautiful daughters?
The Zimbabwe Industrial Index
http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/2009/11/what-is-nominal-stock-market-chart.html
Looks alot like the charts you show Robot.
They're rich I tell ya...
Silver is fuckin' up the monie tonight!
Without women, man has little use for money.
Without money, women have little use for men.
Thanks MM...
I actually DID L O L, as they say
As a child, I was taught the golden rule as presented here. In the 90s I learned the banker's golden rule: he/she who has the gold makes the rules. After 2001 it seemed to have a new twist: do unto others before they do unto you.
Advanced economies and societies (beyond hunting and gathering) also require stability to develop the economic benefits of division of labor. Afghanistan (from what little I know) has gone backwards due to 30 years of perpetual war.
30 years?? Methinks Afghanistan has been in retrograde for much longer than that!
The second part of the answer is:
--- predator versus producer ---
This distinction is the fundamental story of mankind. Today we have a world build 100% upon the primacy of predator over producer. That's what fiat, fake, fraud, fiction, fantasy, fractional-reserve debt-based "money" is... pure predatory behavior. The predators-that-be create these pieces of paper or computer bits out of thin air at zero expense, then defraud and enslave all producers.
Thus, civilization continues on its downward spiral, with predators almost totally in control.
Many people who began as producers become predators as they see the ability to accumulate more riches and power by predatory behavior. Thus, at this point, with the predators totally in control, so-called "civilization" is actually "anti-civilization"... reward in proportion to predatory skill, and abuse in proportion to production.
The predators know well this fundamental, inherent metaphysical fact:
destruction is vastly more potent and powerful than production
The predators know very clearly how much time, effort, skills, experience and resources are required to build a beautiful new home... lots. And they also know how little time, effort, skills, experience and resources are required to destroy that new home... a moron, $1 of gasoline, a free pack of matches, and 10 minutes.
They know full well that producers are subconsciously aware of this too. They know the mere threat of destruction is almost always sufficient to "persuade" producers to hand over goods they produced or own without compensation (protection money, regulations, taxes, etc).
The only solution is individualism.
The key point of individualism is... to close the cause-effect loop, which achieves ethics, justice and liberty. In fundamental terms, what is ethics? What is justice?
Justice is when every individual enjoys/bares/suffers ALL the positive/negative consequences of his own actions, and enjoys/bares/suffers ZERO of the positive/negative consequences of the actions of others.
Very simple, no?
And this is also the most exceedingly practical organization for mankind that anyone has ever conceived.
Consider a world of pure individualism.
Everyone "does their own thing", and keeps the consequences of their actions to themselves.
Everyone is also able to "observe what others are doing, and observe what consequences their behavior leads to".
The dynamic is obvious. Everyone is able to learn from others. Everyone is able to see dozens, hundreds, thousands of different behavior patterns... and their consequences. When most folks see someone else getting much better results than they do, what is the natural response? Duh. To change their behavior in one/some/many ways to realize the net-positive consequences of that behavior.
In this way, maximum diversity and maximum tolerance naturally lead to... lots of people living similar, successful lives. No where near everyone, of course, because not everyone values the various positive and negative consequences the same as everyone else.
So we end up with a substantial number of different behaviors, but not wild, wacko, crazy, random behavior across the globe.
More important, because consequences of actions are reserved for those taking the actions, the substantial diversity that does remain harms nobody, and in fact presents itself as pleasant diversity... perhaps something like "going to the chinese and italian parts of town for dinner" feels in the world of today.
So yes, it is important that the "value chain" never be broken in "trade/exchange/economy". In other words, everyone must exchange real, physical valuable goods [and services] for other real, physical, valuable goods [and services]. And gold is far and away the best conventional (but not required or mandated) medium for this.
However, the most important solution to the problems of the modern world (and to civilization itself) is extermination of predators and predatory behavior, and universal implementation of justice (as defined above).
To advance as a species, and to realize "the good life" as individuals, predators must go. These cretins understand perfectly well the distinction between predator and producer, and they choose to be predators. Given that was their conscious choice, they should be treated as predators... hunted down and exterminated.
While I commiserate, I think you may be overstating things a bit. The observable fact is, humanity Has advanced, despite the constant depredations of these predators. In fact, in some cases it is aguable that dealing with them has spurred on all sorts of advances.
And I think it is probably more accurate to call them "parasites", as their ecology does not inherently entail the death of their host – in fact, they have every reason to keep the bulk of their host population alive. Supporting this approach is the historical tendency of societies to periodically shake off this or that parasite infection, or even whole styles of parasitism, in favor of new ones. We, for example, have traded in a King and an Established Church for banksters and Homeland Security. The relative merits of each can be argued, but it's certainly a different kind of disease.
Finally, let me point out that several kinds of predators have been co-opted, and wecomed into our midst. Dogs, cat, soldiers. They have their uses. Like fire, and space shuttles, they are a risky tool. But sometimes picking up such a tool can aid in advancement.
Not trying to pick a fight, just encouraging cooler approach.
Well, I certainly agree a "leech class" also exists. In fact, the predator class purposely created this class in order to operate under the cover of "democracy", which has an unwarranted good name.
You seem to forget that the overt self-conscious predators used to be a small minority of the population of western societies. Today they are a much larger proportion, especially when combined with their apologists, the "leech class" --- those who receive government jobs, government handouts, and government mandated regulations that favor them (like doctors that have 10x as many client visits because government creates scams like prescription-only drugs).
You also seem to forget many hundred year portions of history (dark ages, middle ages) when the predator class virtually stopped progress and caused endless misery and carnage.
The predators have killed hundreds of millions, and almost certainly billions of people... in wars, in famines, and in thwarting the development of many parts of the world (which causes endless early deaths at childbirth and due to curable disease). To be sure, they also act as parasites too, which is arguably worse.
A soldier is not a predator if he is defending self. And indeed, this is the proper implementation of a military... every citizen should be armed-to-the-teeth and well-trained, and ready to strike any and all invaders, but nobody else. There is zero need for a military hierarchy. If someone invades, people know what to do. And given such a society, nobody in their right minds would invade... ever. If I'm not mistaken, Switzerland was (and maybe is) somewhat like this.
I am not much interested in making fine distinctions between one group of predators and parasites and another. They should all be shot dead.
Do not go "stereotype" on me. That's just wrong, and intellectually corrupt. Each individual must be judged and identified for what that individual is. Therefore, humans are not "predators" just because some are, and dogs are not "predators" just because some are. A predator is a predator because of the actions it takes, not because it is a certain color or species or anything else.
I'm not trying to fight either, but your interpretation of some points seems rather out of whack to me.
PS: Any "cooler" approach that justifies the existence of predators and enslavement of billions is massively misguided. The predators-that-be and their predator-class and leech-class co-conspirators are utterly destroying civilization. Very soon, if these predators, parasites and leeches are not stopped in their tracks, earth will become a permanent slave planet (given the domination of modern technology by the predator class).
It is them or us... predators or producers.
And the time to choose your side is now.
Re Dark Ages, I invite you to examine your premise that there was a halt to progress. That is mainstream, collectivist education talking. There was a halt to Centralized progress. Advances were made in agriculture, and metallurgy, and shipbuilding, to name a few. These did not immediately lend themselves to greater centralization, and so collectivist philosophies grant them no respect.
As for military necessity, even the Swiss (who have been dealing with the reality of questionable neighbors for a Long Time) have a hierarchy in their military. Mass action, of any kind, is advantaged by coordination, and that means an executive structure.
I wish a militia system was a pure answer to military necessity, but history is littered with the bones of such cultures, that got run over by an organized military.
Dogs: Some of the reason we keep them is to attack. We may hope to limit that to justifiable circumstance . . . but the dog can't tell the difference. It's a predator; just an obedient one.
And the predators you fear so much will not destroy civilization. They will merely, like every other critter that exceeds the carrying capacity of its energy supply, choke themselves off, and enforce a change of state in the ecosystem the formerly dominated.
I'm no expert in history, that's for sure. But I'm certain you are correct that advances continued in various parts of the world during even the worst parts of history. However, I would be extremely surprised to learn that the rate of progress never changes throughout history.
People can coordinate quite well without a central leader. To be sure, if all communications was somehow prevented, coordination would be difficult. Yet the point remains, even without any leaders, a country filled with well armed sharp-shooters would do perfectly well against any invading military.
Tell me about one country in which the population was all armed to its teeth and well trained... that was overrun by an invading military. I claim that is impossible, unless the people had some totally wacko belief system.
You need to learn how to think with abstractions. Clearly you do not know how yet.
I much prefer the predators destroy the entire world, and get it over with once and for all --- if the alternative is permanent enslavement of all honest, ethical, just, productive individuals by the predators. I'd rather be dead than be a slave, and any self-respecting human would. Of course, fewer and fewer humans are self-respecting these days, since the vast majority sanctions the predators, and a modest majority actively supports them. But they do not speak for me. I say, all human predators deserve to die, and I have zero qualms about that. BTW, this position shows why you cannot properly apply abstractions they way you do, because that would require me to say "all humans deserve to die, because some/many/most are predators".
No, the predator class of humans will not "choke itself off"... they will choke off everyone else. They will keep around a sufficient number of producers to feed them and lick their boots... and kill off the rest. If you doubt that, you need to read the proposals written and supported by these predators - they actively promote killing off 95% of humans. Yes, "unbelievable", but that's their stated goals (many of them).
marksmanship has won Very few battles, since the general adoption fo the flintlock.
The Nez Perce' were considered, by their US cav opponents, the best rifleman around, in bith accuracy at range and use of cover. But their Organized foes could 'flood the zone' on them, and bring up howitzers to wrinkle them out of a tight pass. (the sioux were retty good, too - but lousy strategists)
The Confederacy was Full of good shots – a largely rural, agricultural nation. And they killed a lot of Union officers, including some generals. But their better Organized opponents overwhelmed them.
And how about every tribe of northern Europe that the Romans rolled over? All warrior heavy, tribal cultures, armed to the teeth. And yet the Legions made it to the north end of Scotland, fercryinoutloud, only falling back because there was nothing worth holding.
How about all the steppe peoples the Persians, and then Alexander, subdued?
And all this is just off the top of my head.
I gather all of this is contrary to your personal mythology, which is no doubt dear to you, and I apologize for any discomfort I inflict. (as I said at the outset of this exchange, I am not trying to pick a fight) But these examples have the singular advantage of being factual. A strategy based on myth is no better than Obama's strategy of hope.
Embrace reason. She will show you the future.
The South lost for one reason, the North had the manufacturing base.
The South was Agri.
End of story.
Which underscores the point that there are advantages (frequently the sort held by wealthy opponents) that can more than match a well armed populace.
Don't get me wrong, Love the 2nd Amend. Just don't believe it is a panacea.
I do embrace reality, reason, rationality and most important, honesty.
You wouldn't know reason if it punched you in the nose.
Also, we should be talking about whether a country without a government (but massively armed populace) was attacked... what would happen. It is always possible to "capture the capital" or "bribe a few politicians and convince them to officially surrender". That's a different question.
But Wait! There's more!
Switzerland has actually been conquered, twice. Once by Julius Ceaser, when it was full of those heavily armed, war-loving germanic types I mentioned earlier, and once by Napoleon, when almost every body there had a musket.
And then there's Afghanistan, as heavily armed a populace as there ever was. But the Russians were able to dominate it, at a high cost, until the intervention of Other 'predators' (Arab jihadis and US Stingers) tipped the balance.
Here's an abstraction: Humans are omnivores, and as such, wired to be opportunists. Plenty of humans engage in both productive and predatory behavior, which means your propsed dualism is a false dichotomy.
Take the lesson of Bush the Younger: If you demand the world pick a side, when your definition of 'good' is something only you can reliably see, they are apt to be a bit slower to back you than you expect.
And if you announce "we need to kill all the predators", plenty of your fellows, yes even among the armed community, are going to see that as potentially aimed at them. And that won't end well for you.
Maybe someday when I have time, I'll try to learn about old time Switzerland. Somehow, I doubt your claims. Makes me wonder what went wrong in Vietnam too, where the locals were invaded by a massively superior technological military (even with weapons supplied by the USSR). And the USSR did not beat Afganistan, which tends to disprove your claim.
Is a vegitarian an omnivore? Is a potential more real than a real? You seem to think so, as indicated by that paragraph. Yes, some people take productive actions and predatory actions. So I ask you, what should be do with productive people who kill others? Obviously you are much against the current practice of ignoring their productive actions, and locking them up for life. I am not. At the very least, ALL damage caused by a predator must be compensated by the predator. And if the predator cannot fully compensate, or does not completely stop his predatory behavior, then he should be treated like any other predator == put down.
Wait a second. Now you're saying that "everyone with a gun is a predator"? Or that everyone with a gun will believe that I assume they are a predator... just because they have a gun? What kind of wacko logic is that?
Also, I'm not saying that everyone who steals a pack of bubble-gum should be terminated (see above). However, those who live day in and day out by taking predatory actions - have certified their status as a predator in essense, and yes they do deserve to die... as quickly as possible (example: everyone in the FederalReserve). And as we see, if this is not done, the predators quickly gain control of entire nations... and in the case of today, pretty much the entire planet.
Post of the year, right there.
The distribution of wealth, from producers to predators was never really altered, we moved from Feudals to Corporations - the wealth we see in the West is largely imported wealth, like Asphalt or plastics. It serves to form a Customer-Client-Banker-Debtor, predatory relationship. The consuming masses swallow the bling, until the predators begin to turn and feast on them. It's a great analogy. and by-the-by, predators could have their uses, but science isn't one of them- our political and social maturity is destroyed by the jobs, the education, the laws we live under - what use is technical advancement at all, if we suffer to live like plastic programmed apes?
Currency is a bartering tool that has been magically transformed into a commodity by the overlords and their 'sucking' based monetary system.
Getting angry makes sense - the thing is to remain focused. How, for instance, does one stalinate an entire class and then reorganise not just a functioning economy but also Public services? I agree, I think they would make excellent fertiliser, but of course, the producers' would lose some skills as a result, like the endless paperwork that's needed to keep accounts in order.
Nevertheless, as far as I can tell, within ten years there may be an industrial revolution which would in fact make producers out of us all. This 3-D Printing... give it the right inks and it could print out almost anything. I'm working on a plan to cover the rest of production, like mining and food.. the real tragedy that we've faced and have yet to reconcile, is the grotesque perversion of the law-making authorities.
As long as the Chinese are pushing for gold I'll keep getting more.
There's plenty of gold to go around, it's just a matter of price.
The Golden Rule is nice, but don't forget:
The Iron Rule: Never do for another what they won't take the time and effort to do for themselves.
The Platinum Rule: Do unto others what they would do for themselves. (Some folks idea of what you want is not their idea of what they want for themselves.)
And what about:
The Wooden Rule: Don't touch them with a ten-foot pole until they've shown they don't bite, kick or spit.
Adding it to the repertoire!
Thanks, Doc.
OMG!!! Confucius lived before Jeebus?
@ the mad hatter
You obviously have no idea how rude it is to hijack posts with completely off-topic comments, no matter how worthy of discussion.
You owe Tyler and the author an apology.