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No offense intended, but I don't need those charts to buy into the idea that there might be a recession. Try depression. This is missing the forest because you are focused on some leaves. Dude the Forest is on fire!!! The leaves look kinda smoky for a reason. AHHHHH!!!! Run away, run away!!
I know, I know, I would like to run, but where to?
I chose Alaska ... J. Tainter lives in Utah now, so that might be another good option (he is no dummy!) ... just sayin' ...
In Cuba, you need a permit to do most about everything.
Welcome to Marxist America:
Unfortunately, besides Japan, Alaska is now about the worst place in the world to be in order to avoid radiation.
+1 Why are we even debating a recession? It's a depression.
Zigackly! My first thought as well. SInce 2008 to boot.
Whut a yoke.
Yesterday was an important anniversary by the way, still good to pay heed!
It's good to know that the mainstream sentiment is finally catching up reality.
To quote Einstein, the simple truth is such:
If the government, ie. the FED and the Treasury, have to prop up the economy through quantitative easing for 3+ years, then you're smack dead in the throes of a depression.
3 years of quantitative easing, trillions of Dollars spent, and all you got was a lousy pink slip.
We're only *not* in a recession because we're spending like drunken sailors on the Government credit card.
We're basically running electricity through a corpse to make it wriggle, and warning that the corpse has a high possibility of passing away in the coming months.
It's idiocy. The economy is dead without stimulus. ie: The economy is dead.
Is it possible to subtract all the printed and borrowed-from-abroad money dumped into the economy from the GDP for the last 10 years or so to see how much the negative growth is? ;-)
I am sure it is but we will have to do it ourselves! Now "that" would be an article!
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez
Try this one for starters:
2011: Few if any economists are calling for recession in 2011 but why?
Perhaps it is the transitory nature of the definition. The baseline measurement (standard) eventually changes.
I'll need more pixie dust and kool-aid to believe "everything" is getting better, and that debt default (reduction, write-off, foregiveness, et al) including repatriation of profits from multinationals at reduced income tax rates - are not the ultimate goals of the Republicrats.
Bring it on.
Cash without trash, bitchez.
"What has been trending lower though is the Government portion. The question then becomes when the next recession comes just how able is the government to stimulus spend. We know they will try but at what point will the bond market even in the face of Fed printing limit their ability?..."
The government will spend through the people - more checks will go out. Stagflation for more and more... and timing is everything, especially trying to escape a dying but for-now-tradable currency.
Virtually every Wall Street "expert" is predicting a depression and more pain for the consumer.
The XRT is saying otherwise. In fact, the XRT is forecasting a consumer spending boom of unparalleled proportions in 2012 - 2013.
Recessions do not last forever.
In fact, this recession is not nearly as bad as the 1990 - 1991 recession in California. I knew lots of aerospace engineers and bankers who were driving cabs, or working construction for $15/hr. back then. Real estate transactions completely collapsed. I remember the house across the street from me, brand new custom home, was sitting for sale for 2 1/2 years.
Well, the economy came back with a vengeance.
And after the "bond scare" of 1994 when interest rates went up to the moon and everyone was predicting an economic collapse, the stock market commenced the greatest rally of all time. That was exactly 4 years after 1990.
If you don't believe me, see for yourself:
The $SPX rallied from 450 to 1200.
And we are now 3 years out since the 2008 meltdown, and everyone is predicting gloom.
Things are never as bad as the media hypes it up to me.
For example, "Carmaggeddon" was a no-show here in Los Angeles. There is virtually no one out on the freeways this weekend.
At least when you post idiocy, keep it short.
could afford gas
to drive any where...
@ mt paul....you made me laugh...simple truths are humorous!
"In fact, the XRT is forecasting a consumer spending boom of unparalleled proportions in 2012 - 2013."
Roblot- What you fail to understand is that we do not make it here in the US anymore, unless you count "Double Quarter Pounders w/ Cheese."
And did the market come back b/c the gov't bought bad paper at 100 cents on the dollar? Did they pay people's mortgages? The RTC was was swift and brutal and that is why the market came back; because prices reached a clearing level and provided good risk-adjusted yields. The bigger the bubble, the bigger the pop.
"Carmaggeddon" was a no-show here in Los Angeles. There is virtually no one out on the freeways this weekend."
"Carmaggeddon" was a no-show here in Los Angeles. There is virtually no one out on the freeways this weekend."
Gee, do you suppose the non-stop media blitz- including billboards, radio and teevee before this weekend and during the work could have had anything to do with people in cars not going out on freeways? Hmmm?
The Coast-To-Coast program on 640 KKKFI was preempted two hours on Friday to keep the endless "news" about carmageddon going until zero hour... I nearly went into convulsions not having my pre-bedtime fix of UFO's, Aliens, 2012 Catastrophe and other such info. to guide me into peaceful psychedellic slumber...
Robot, I agree with some of your assessment however, I think the point is that we may enter a "new" [re-de]pression. Technically, government led or not, we've been out of depression as GDP has been positivesince the middle of '09. I think the realization is now that we truly have a crisis in confidence (as we should with this administration), a severly wounded consumer and a secular shift in consumption behavior. All of this not to mention the greatest deleveraging cycle the globe has ever experienced and that has in fact just begun.
Truly, we've not been to this party before. I might go out on a limb and say this time it's different. I don't see any reasonable way out of this other than austerity and by the time we get to that, it may just be too late.
What is inflation adjusted GDP!? What is "real" GDP!? It is negative!
I hope you are right!
The booms won't come back.
The cars will go b/c the fuel to run them will be too expensive and car makers won't sell enough to keep the factory doors open. Decline feeds on itself just like expansion feeds asset value increases.
A non- flow economy will not have price spreads to arbitrage. No booms or busts, more like JP Morgan's "fluctuations".
No cars, no finance: I'm looking forward to it, maybe see some bankers on trial.
One can only hope, right?
"Things are never as bad as the media hypes it up to me."
I'm at a loss to recall the media hyping negative things over the past couple years. So, by things do you mean the "we stopped the freefall" of early '09, "green shoots" of late '09, or the "stimulus is working and creating millions of jobs" and "we're in a recovery" of early '10, the "things are really starting to pick up" of late '10, the "might have hit a tiny soft patch, but don't worry" of early '11 or the "we got by the soft patch" of mid-'11? If anything there has been an absolute lack of anything but rosey bullshit for 3 years.
Great Depression II Bitchez!
A Better Title:
Guest Post: The US Economy Is Extremely Vulnerable To Recession Being Recognized Officially in 2011
What's behind that wallpaper?
more wallpaper, but after that there's these weird scribblings with doodles of mushroom clouds...
I think the patten is set for at least a decade: stimulus measures followed by modest growth lasting about 3 quarters, followed inevitably by a grinding slump that threatens to go "GDP-negative", only to be rescued with more stimulus.
And that will pass for "Growth", at least on paper, so that the Fed, politicians and TPTB can pat themselves on the back and go clink glasses filled with Crystal.
But the endless daisy-chained monetary stimulus obscures the underlying decay: declining trade, declining consumer, continued exporting of jobs and industry, government layoffs, reduced government spending on research, declining individual net worth and cash flow.
Most of the stimulus is going "supply-side", meaning to benefit corporations, not individuals. It will permit corporations to borrow more through bond issuance and to dilute their stock. The financial sector will be kept afloat, but as it becomes more clear that the American investor is not coming back, look for a gradual head count reduction on Wall Street and all major banking, asset management and hedge funds. Shrinking retirement funds such as social security won't help.
The pattern is clear: The Downsizing of the US economy continues for as far as the eye can see
Were turning japanese, turning japanese. I really think so.
no we are turning into 1930s Germany. Except we are the jews and jews are the nazis.
I couldn't get past the horrible misuse of a popular quote often attributed to Einstein. The full quote should be:
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
It is generally used when there has been a gross oversimplification rendering an idea/model meaningless.
Leaving out the "but not simpler" completely changes the intended meaning.
Who the FUCK put Roundup all over my green shoots?????
That was Monsanto! They have developed some grass that is resistant to roundup (no kidding). If some roundup happens to blow in your yard which has non-resistant grass too bad for you. Monsanto is a good corparate fascist citizen.
so consumers aren't spending/they are cutting back on debt/ they are not buying luxury items/ they are scared to shit.
70% of economic growth is based on consumption by consumers.
No consumers = No economy
What happens when people collectively decide not to buy things? the economy implodes.
After we collectively stop buying, we will be left servicing each other.
Apparently what happens is the government forces you to spend by taxing you and then giving your money away to asshats who will spend it on bonuses for themselves and sending jobs and business overseas. They have the nerve to call it capitalism. Economy declines some more, govt. creates debt for your children, gives it to more asshats, wash, rinse, repeat.
I owe, I owe,
it's off to work I go!!
Tho I have no debt,
but I must work still yet,
I owe, the Ho.
Going Japaneese, going Japaneese...Some stimulus please...;-D
If only we had socialism, there might be some hope...(Capitalism is too much to dream for when you live in a fascist state).
Did you forget that this is a "jobless" recovery!?
Anyone who paid attention over the past ten years knew that the economy was going to be shit for years to come.
Thank you for the chart porn, Mr. Pallotta, much obliged.
We're not looking at Recession, or even Depression.
I'm seeing collapse buddy, and so should you, if you're looking at the same Macro I am.
Refusal to develop domestic oil production, and turn the revenue generated towards researching sustainable alternatives... Check.
Refusing to wean ourselves away from Militarily adventurism sold to the masses as protecting freedumb, that in actuality is solely for the purpose of providing access to cheap oil in rigged markets for the benefit of Corporations like GS, and JPM... Check.
Refusing to go after the criminals in the financial realm who have plundered and bled this country dry because they own the politicritters... Check.
Sitting on our thumbs for 70 or 80 years refusing to accept the fact that "yes it is my guy that's the problem" every November when it's time to pull the handle... Check
I could launch into the subject of entitlements, or the Fed, but this is getting my pressure up, so I'll quit now.
We're facing mathematically ensured financial failure coupled with politically unchangeable expectations of relief from the Gov't. by half of the populace.
Expect Collapse Bitchez.
Very well put. This is obviously a depression and
the Fed cartel will ensure a collapse as they steal the last billions in the name of austerity, robbing the remaining pensions, etc.
I like that term freedumb, that is an exact description of the American people at this juncture.
Printing money out of thin air and buying government debt and worthless assets with it...check
Promising more benefits than we can afford...check
Reducing taxes and increasing spending...check
Refusing to live within our means...check
Pissing off a large portion of the world...check
Yeah, I think that we are on the brink of collapse. The most surprising thing is that it will surprise so many people when it happens. Sheeple!
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