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Guest Post: US State Department Says "Conspiracy Theories Exist In The Realm Of Myth"

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Mac Slavo of

The US State Department’s web site, which purports to
engage international audiences on issues of foreign policy, society and
values, has dedicated a special section to conspiracy theories and misinformation, claiming:

“Conspiracy theories exist in the realm of myth,
where imaginations run wild, fears trump facts, and evidence is
ignored. As a superpower, the United States is often cast as a villain
in these dramas.”

Some of the conspiratorial myths “officially” debunked by the State Department include:

The US military’s use of depleted uranium in combat and comparing this to radioactivity from detonations of nuclear weapons.

“Uranium evokes very powerful fears. It is
associated with atomic weapons, mass annihilation, radiation sickness,
cancer and birth defects. Depleted uranium evokes these same fears,
despite the fact that it has been depleted of much of its
radioactivity. Even if you accept this fact, your fear-based
associations can be more powerful than logic and facts. Compare how you
feel about tungsten to how you feel about depleted uranium. Both are
heavy metals, but “depleted uranium” might sound scarier to you.”

Never mind that the World Health Organization says that depleted
uranium is weakly radioactive and a radiation dose from it would be
about 60% of that from purified natural uranium with the same mass.
It’s only 60% as radioactive as the real stuff, so it’s safe to use in
weapons systems we’re lobbing into neighborhoods in Iraq and

The employment of economic hit men to entrap countries in huge amounts of debt.

“Economic conspiracy theories are often based on the
false, but popular, idea that powerful individuals are motivated
overwhelmingly by their desire for wealth, rather than the wide variety
of human motivations we all experience. (This one-dimensional,
cartoonish view of human nature is at the heart of Marxist ideology,
which once held hundreds of millions under its sway.)”

“One fantasy, reflecting this simplistic, unimaginative way of
interpreting human events, falsely claims that U.S. national security
agencies employ “economic hit men” to entrap countries with huge
amounts of debt.”

“Within the United States, those who fear international
influences may believe false stories that, with Canada and Mexico, the
United States is replacing the dollar with a new “Amero” currency,
patterned after the Euro, or that the United States is sacrificing its
sovereignty to an imaginary “North American Union.”

Two words: Goldman Sachs. [ZH: we also recommend reading Confessions of an Economic Hitman for the truth on this matter]

And, while the Amero may not be a reality now, there is only one way
that the United States is going to pay off the national debt that our
domestic economic hit men have strapped us with, and this is through
either devaluation or all out default. In both cases the US dollar as
we know it today will be completely destroyed and a new currency system
will be required. Call it a theory, we think it’s fact, and if they’re
doing it to our own country, why would they not do it to third-world

The State Department has also made efforts to debunk the myth that President Obama is not a US citizen.

“Today, some conspiracy theorists falsely claim
President Obama was not born in the United States, making him
ineligible to be president. However, there is no doubt that he was born
in Hawaii.”

There may be no doubt in the minds of those appointed to their posts
by President Obama or those hired to write the State Departments
debunking blogs, but millions of Americans question the President’s eligibility
to serve for a number of reasons that include his failure to provide a
legitimate Certificate of Live Birth issued by the State of Hawaii, his
inability to explain his trip to Pakistan in the 1980’s when holders of
US passports were not allowed into the country, and most recently, his
use of a social security number issued only for residents of the State
of Connecticut, in which he never lived.

No government debunking of conspiracy myths would be complete without discussion of September 11th:

Dramatic, polarizing events often give rise to
conspiracy theories, and the September 11 attacks were the most
dramatic terrorist attacks in history. Nonsense about them abounds,
especially in the popular video “Loose Change.”

See “The Top September 11 Conspiracy Theories” for an overview.
There was no “controlled demolition” of the World Trade Center towers.
Instead, the unprecedented attack by hijacked airliners full of jet
fuel destroyed support pillars, loosened fireproofing insulation, and
ignited fires that destroyed the twin towers. The collapse of the north
tower heavily damaged World Trade Center 7, igniting fires and causing
its collapse.

A hijacked plane, not a cruise missile, hit the Pentagon, as
detailed in a photo gallery. Four thousand Jews did not miss work at
the World Trade Center on September 11. And al-Qaida has admitted, many
times, that it carried out the attacks.

At the risk of sounding like Debra Medina Truthers,
we’ll refrain from arguing every point, however we’d like to point out
to those of our readers who have not yet viewed the popular video
“Loose Change,” that they take the time to do so before swallowing this
nine sentence so-called debunking of the largest crime in American

If nothing else, we’d suggest to readers that there are many
questions that went unanswered about 9/11 which include, but are not
limited to, over fifty (50) missing closed circuit videos around the
Pentagon that were never released to the public and the fact the Osama Bin Laden was never officially implicated for his role in the September 11th WTC plot.

A couple of conspiracies which were considered myths at the time of
their occurrence, yet were not debunked by the State Department’s new
web site include the Gulf of Tonkin incident which lead to the Vietnam
war and the CIA drug transportation rings of the 1980’s. Because of the
overwhelming evidence that was uncovered by independent researchers and
reluctantly released by the government, these myths and fantasies
eventually became realities.

We wonder if the US government may be rushing to judgment about wild
imaginations and irrational fears when they have failed to answer
simple questions regarding many of the conspiracy “theories” above.
Naturally, many of these will remain theories until the facts are
openly provided to those requesting the information, at which point
they will either be conspiracy fact or non-truths.

For the time being, those who seek the truth will likely remain
baffled, confused and misdirected, much like the magic bullet that
killed JFK, because any good conspiracy creates a web of illegible
disinformation and misinformation, not from those looking for answers,
but by those who have the power to provide them.

“What is it men cannot be made to believe!”
Thomas Jefferson
April 22, 1786



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Sun, 05/23/2010 - 22:57 | 369398 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

*****America's Broken Media And The Collapse Of World Trade Center 7*****

by Eric deCarbonnel

When reading the articles below, keep one question in mind: Do you find these allegations credible and serious enough to deserve media coverage?

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 07:47 | 369711 breezer1
breezer1's picture

now if you want some real conspiracy  stuff then check out  what this guy has to say.


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 22:57 | 369399 Goods
Goods's picture
History is a set of lies agreed upon.
Mon, 05/24/2010 - 02:22 | 369597 Popo
Popo's picture

Yes, but an important axiom to keep in mind when considering books like "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" is:


"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story".


Disclaimer:  I loved the book.  But much has been written since about its implausibility and its clear abstractions of the truth.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 03:31 | 369620 Crummy
Crummy's picture

Much has been written ? Not much that I can find. . A few negative book reviews and a forum post or two, but nothing definitive. Some of the investigations critical of his story I found actually go into even more detail on other cases that are more sensational than the Perkins book. Putting your opinion on its implausibility aside, perhaps you can provide a link or point out a few glaring abstractions.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 06:12 | 369671 anony
anony's picture

....we're still awaiting.....

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 02:45 | 369603 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

then again...

Never attribute to conspiracy that which can be explained by stupidity. We are dealing with govt employees here. :)

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 03:21 | 369616 Apocalypse Now
Apocalypse Now's picture

Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by careful planning.

We are not talking about the post office or DMV here, the defense industry is made up of rocket scientists.

It is a convenient throw away comment to just dismiss any rational inquiry with "government stupidity".  They are not really stupid, it is impressive that the US has military bases in most important countries in the world.  Clearly we are the world super power, but the USA is more than that - it is the most dominant country in the history of the world. Think tanks are much smarter than you and I, although it feeds the ego by trying to call someone else stupid.

In an investigation, stupid or conspiracy aren't a motivation.  I would look for motivation in order to answer why - open ended without making a judgment until assessing the available information.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 11:48 | 370115 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

I appreciate your perspective. Robert Gibbs is a visually prominent example of their efforts; sharply keeping the nobelist-warmonger-teleprompter-reader away from prying questions.

O gives plenty of interviews. Let's put him in the ring with Helen Thomas. Interview of the Century.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 12:07 | 370172 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

O couldn't handle Helen asking him questions.  He'd need an ear bug.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 12:22 | 370224 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

"Never attribute to stupidity that which can be explained by careful planning"

Great line. I guess it's a real mess when you combine the two with the rest.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 03:36 | 369627 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture

Like in the Soviet Union, once the Gov folks quit believing the lies its almost over. Justice afterwards, with bankers and robber barons  behind bars. Free grand juries, start your engines of change!

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 03:53 | 369635 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

"Never attribute to conspiracy that which can be explained by stupidity"

Know Why Conspiracy Theories are Sooo Popular With the Amerikan Public?
Because the Idiot US Government CONSTANTLY engages in Conspiracy Theories:

1. Iran is a nuclear threat that could destroy the US.
Reality: Iran has oil we want to control and Wall Street wants to make huge leveraged derivative bets on...

2. The crotch bomber is a member of Al Queda...
Reality: Then how come US State department ushered his unpassported ass on to the plane in Amsterdam?

3.a. Sodomy Hussien has WMD...
3.b. Sodomy Hussein did 9-11.
Reality: What illiterate mutton headed child left behind though that shit up? Bush ass mofo...

4. Osama Bin Laden...
Reality: You mean the long time CIA employee?

5. The Nicaraguan Sandinistas are going to spread communism right to Amerika's door...
Reality: What senile Alzheimer's puppet thought that one up?

6. Gulf of Tonkin.
Reality: McNamara admitted it was a lie to to escalate Vietnam.

7. The Lusitania
Reality: Wilson Lie and the treasonous death of hundreds of Amerikans...

8. The Maine
Reality: Dip shit Teddy Roooosevelt Lie.

And it goes on and on. The public gets the conspiracy theories from their government. The incompetent political class legitimized conspiracy theories...

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 11:41 | 370102 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Nice post. Can't seem to remember one I didn't like. Child left behind. Brilliant.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 13:15 | 370363 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

Very nice post actually...

Unfortunately politically processed 'information' is what 9/10 Americans prefer.

Take the N. Korean attack on the S. Korean vessel a couple months ago... totally unexpected right?

Kim Jong Il is a sociopathic nut to be sure but everyone saw this coming... paybacks are a bitch you know...

Check out the naval action of November 9, 2009 that precipitated the N. Koprean torpedo attack...

South Korea's Troops are on high alert today for possible retaliation by North Korea after one of its Navy ships was nearly destroyed and an officer reportedly killed in a skirmish with the South, ahead of a visit by President Barack Obama. Yesterday's clash along the disputed western sea border was the first such engagement in seven years, sending tensions soaring about a week before Obama travels to Seoul as part of his Asian tour. The exchange occurred just hours before the State Department...

Hmmmm... wonder why they forgot to mention that one...

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 06:13 | 369673 anony
anony's picture

Oh we get it.  The smiley face means sarcasm 'on'.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 06:52 | 369689 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

"Those who stand for nothing fall for anything."
-- Alexander Hamilton

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 15:04 | 370653 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

except bankers when you tell them to jump

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:28 | 369444 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

No doubt Rusty.  If conspiracy theories are nothing more than myth then why would the State Department be concerned with them?  Gotta wonder, who is the greater fool?  The person who believes every conspiracy theory, or the folks who believe they have to decide which conspiracy theories to address and how.  If this has risen to the level of inclusion on the web site then there must be a program manager and staff.  I would love to read that managers position description and the qualification criteria for the position.  I see a FOIA request...

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:04 | 369404 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

well there the state department goes again telling whopper lies.....

of course obama is not a usa citizen. he was born in kenya, became an indonesian citizen c. 1965/6, returning to the usa c. 1970/1 to visit his intelligence agent grandmother. obama does not have a usa birth certificate. you need more birth evidence to get on a little league team than to become president.

usa intelligence destroyed the wtc to destroy an fbi agent linking the bush crime syndicate to enron, to destroy enron evidence, to pass the patriot act, and to invade the middle east. daddy bush had a grudge fuck against his former business partner saddam hussein.

i would never accept a birth certificate for obama at this date because i know it would have been forged in the basement of the cia or fbi.

americans are the most gullible assininely stoopid people in the universe. while the state department is at it maybe it would like to dispel the cia's murder of john kennedy....

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:08 | 369411 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

"americans are the most gullible assininely stoopid people in the universe"

Hey... I resembl... err... resent that remark!

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 08:47 | 369782 sushi
sushi's picture

I can't even spell it.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:08 | 369413 Alethiometer
Alethiometer's picture

You're gonna get on another list if you keep carrying on like this tony bonn

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:15 | 369422 silvertrain
silvertrain's picture


Mon, 05/24/2010 - 01:18 | 369551 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture


Here is a link to numerous photos of Barack Obama's birth certificate.

Does anybody check facts anymore before posting lies?  No, seriously, it took a 15 second google search.  Zerohedge couldn't do this before saying that no such document has been given or proven?

Do you really think Obama would be the president now if he didn't have a birth certificate?  Would McCain, Clinton, or Palin have let that go?  I doubt it.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 02:24 | 369598 Popo
Popo's picture

Agreed.  Is anyone else noticing the steady decline in quality from ZH?   Come on Tyler.   There are 1000 other blogs where I can scoop up cheap trollfeed like this.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 02:38 | 369601 akak
akak's picture

"There are 1000 other blogs where I can scoop up cheap trollfeed like this."

And yet that did not stop you from feasting on it here.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 08:18 | 369736 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

for once, I agree partially with Johnny Bravo regarding that 1 item.  However, the incredible value of misinformation and a concerted propaganda campaign carried out by a powerful government is to mix in totally bogus 'conspiracy theories' with the rest of the 'conspiracy theories' to dilute the 'conspiracy theory' waters and crush the credibility of the valid theories.

Discernment of mind is hard work Johnny

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 11:52 | 370135 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

JB didn't address the questions in the article. And neither does the MSM or gov't. So JB is still full of shit, just like MSM and O.

Why all the lawyers, O? Why the $1.3 million to hide everything?

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 11:43 | 370109 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

I thought everybody knew Obama was a Canadian by Birth.  That way, being part of the British Commonwealth he was able to go to Pakistan.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 12:25 | 370239 Captain Obviousness
Captain Obviousness's picture

Look, I couldn't give a shit whether Obama was born in the US.  There is not going to be a smoking gun so everyone should just get over it.

BUT, Obama's original birth certificate has NEVER been produced.  That Fact Check link shows photos of a reproduction birth certificate printed in 2007 (you can see the date on it, and it's obviously produced with modern printers).  The Fact Check link also quotes Hawaii state officials saying "I swear that I have seen his original birth certificate and he was born in Hawaii."  Finally the Fact Check link shows a birth announcement in the newspaper.

This begs the question:  If Hawaii officials claim they have seen the original birth certificate, why won't they produce it?  Just scan the damn thing, it's not that hard.  Instead they show off reproductions, issue official statements that he was born in Hawaii, and show off birth announcement in the newspaper as incontrovertible proof.

Where is the ORIGINAL birth certificate???  I would be satisfied if Hawaii simply said "we don't know, we lost it."  But they didn't say that.  They say they have the original, but they just won't produce it because these conspiracy theories are insulting.  Makes sense.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 16:27 | 370834 Fascist Dictator
Fascist Dictator's picture

I was born in Hawaii and my birth certificate doesn't look anything like the one on Fact Check. btw, Fact Check is a government disinformation website.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 22:48 | 371351 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

You do realise that that is a contemporaneous laser-printer printout of data that is ostensibly recorded to reflect the live birth.  Anyone with the right connexions or a few $$$ or both can have the data input into the state system so that it can then be printed out and certified.

Now, if you had shown us a photostat copy of the orignal type-written birth certificate, like those that tens of millions of people who were born in the USA in the 1960s received, then you might have debunked the theory.  And yes, you can still get copies of the origínal certificate ... assuming one actually exists.

Instead you simply show that you will swallow the official story hook, line and sinker rather than to ask a few more probing questions.


Mon, 05/24/2010 - 06:54 | 369691 desgust
desgust's picture

+ 1

The junkers hate reality.They are "patriots".

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:06 | 369407 Paladin en passant
Paladin en passant's picture

Oh, dear, the Bildeburgers are loose again, wreaking havoc across the world for fun and profit.  We're all doomed by their conspiratorial plots. Run for the hills with your guns and gold and grits.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:36 | 369454 Frank Owen
Frank Owen's picture

"History is written by the victors" - Another "conspiracy theory" soon to be debunked your trusted State Department as myth of a darker side to our perfect above board world.

Good on ya bringing up the Bilderberg Group - a misunderstood group of philanthropists. You don't read much about them in the news but they were in Afghanistan last week distributing artificial limbs to children, after their months of helping rebuild Haiti...

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 00:43 | 369536 yomamma
yomamma's picture

Why don't we just pull the plug on ZeroHedge as an independent website and have it join its political brother in arms: Infowars / PrisonPlanet


Screw it, you nutjobs can go ahead and ruin a perfectly awesome place like ZH with all the crazies that emerge out of the lunatic fringe of the regulars that come here.


I feel like Kurt Russell in "Escape from New York" when he's sitting in the street, watching some psycho banging on the gutter gratings and street manholes one minue and the next he's running from a gaggle of criminally insane subterannean cannibals who'll devour ANYTHING to satisfy their ferocious hunger!

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 01:04 | 369545 Frank Owen
Frank Owen's picture

You calling me a nutjob? You got no creds here 'cause everyone knows Yomamma's so dumb she thought fruit punch was a gay boxer.
BTW, I never use either of those sites you mentioned because that Alex guy just plain yells too much. Also, I guess you disapprove of all the market manipulation articles that are constantly covered on ZH.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 01:21 | 369554 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

Yeah, a lot of the manipulation articles are quite unfounded as well.

It's like people here never read anything about technical analysis or something.  We had a 61.8 fib retracement off of the lows, and people act like it's manipulation.

Maybe it's normal market behavior?  Sure it's made by computers, but that doesn't stop it from being just regular ass technical analysis.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 11:54 | 370140 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Regular ass tech anal? Explain.

Tue, 05/25/2010 - 15:23 | 371450 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

WW: Please don't encourage the idiots.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 01:09 | 369548 Apocalypse Now
Apocalypse Now's picture

This was a counter intelligence article to out the agent provocateurs.

You have been outed, time to pick another avatar and try to build up credibility.

Troll: Confirmed X

I usually don't feed trolls, but I really don't want my tax dollars wasted on ineffective government.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:39 | 369464 Thorny Xi
Thorny Xi's picture

Grits.  I KNEW I'd forgotten something.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 06:22 | 369678 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Clearly you're not prepared without the grits. :>)

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 09:25 | 369837 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Can you imagine eating grits without butter?


Mon, 05/24/2010 - 13:28 | 370418 dnarby
dnarby's picture

Goats 'r cheaper 'n buying a pile 'o canned butter.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:07 | 369409 Alethiometer
Alethiometer's picture

Daddy doesn't like it when you tell mommy you saw him kissing another lady.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:07 | 369410 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

We're all tin foil hat wearing conspiracy theorists, until we're not.

Special thanks to Matt Taibbi, and John Perkins (Note that you will find "Confessions of an Economic Hitman" in the reference section of your local library, not in fiction) for having the 'nads to swim up-river.

Alex Jones, please sit down; you're ruining it for the rest of us.



Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:11 | 369412 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

You know, the funny thing about depleted uranium, or DU as it's more euphemistically called by those in the "business," is that from a radiological perspective it's almost harmless. It's mostly U-238 which has a half life measured in billions of years.  So long, in fact, that its half-life is roughly equal to the age of the earth.  For those not familiar with nuclear physics, this means that the U-238 isotope is not especially radioactive.  I would not worry about driving a car made out of U-238, or otherwise being near it on a daily basis.

Of course, the other funny thing about DU, which isn't all that funny if you live in Iraq, is that while it's almost harmless radiologically, it's really nasty stuff chemically, and some of its compounds are even worse.  So, it is completely accurate to say that DU poses little to no radiological hazard, in much the same way that you might accurately say that people shot with ordinary bullets don't typically die from lead poisoning (cute euphemisms aside).

In one of those ironic twists of fate, a lot of metals used for nuclear-related purposes are nasty chemically.  Plutonium is highly toxic, and beryllium is as well, with a significant number of nuclear industry workers suffering beryllium poisoning, which you really, really do not want.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:24 | 369430 Rusty_Shackleford
Rusty_Shackleford's picture

Plus, when accelerated really fast down the barrels of a 30mm chain-gun, it has a tendency to destroy whatever it finally ends up coming in contact with.


It's not it's radioactivity that's the problem, it is it's kinetic energy.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:39 | 369463 trav7777
trav7777's picture

DU is almost pure U238, which is an alpha emitter.  Alpha radiation is only toxic if the particles creating it are inhaled.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:58 | 369490 Frank Owen
Frank Owen's picture

So if you dumped a bunch of it into water would it be safe to drink?

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 09:29 | 369842 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

No, it wouldn't.  Not that there's a whole lot of free surface water in Iraq anyway.  But when the projectiles hit ground, they certainly expose DU to the air, and maybe even vaporize / release dust.  Airborne alpha emitters are not good.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 02:13 | 369589 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Everything that is an alpha emitter is a beta emitter. All lead is the end result of all THINGS heavier than lead on the table and radioactive. All minded lead is either pure or contains some product still decaying. Natural deposits form a lead coating around the elements which is by no conincidence what keeps most radiation in the ground safe because it creates it's own natural stop spewing radiation skin.

You can't coat depleted uranium in lead to make it safer to use because lead fouls unless you are using it in low velocity weapons like black powder guns which is why most rounds over 1200 1300 fps use a jacket.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 00:06 | 369494 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

Right, it may not be radiation per se, but there are larger than normal instances of rather gross birth defects in Iraq now. Any heavy metal could cause this which is just as bad for the people in contact with this.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 09:52 | 369883 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Yes, my point.  And Uranium is worse than many heavy metals when it comes to chemical toxicity.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 03:51 | 369634 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture

Don't forget the heavy metal toxicity.  It is much worse than lead, both kinetically and toxicologically. The medical evidence is not a matter of doubt on this.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 09:52 | 369882 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Yes, agreed.  It would somewhat the same as if we spewed mercury and arsenic all over the place.

My point was just that one can accurately refute a widely held misconception (radiologic danger) while ignoring a genuine severe danger that most people don't realize (chemical toxicity).

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:11 | 369416 Nolsgrad
Nolsgrad's picture

two social security numbers will do that...

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:15 | 369423 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

At least they didn't mention W and his Gay lover and the Enquirer.

Rumor has it The National Enquirer was the first building hit with Anthrax because they had pics of W and his Gay lover Victor Ashe.

The National Enquirer building was the last one allowed to open after the Anthrax scare.

Rumor also has it that Bill and Hillary were swingers back in Arkansas. They enjoyed the three way a little too much. And Hillary supposedly had her Lesbian Arabic lover working her campaign.

But who listens to rumors anyway.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:25 | 369434 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I knew people in law school who were friends of the Clittons from Arkansas or wherever.  They said it was an open secret that he was a philanderer and their marriage was at that point a business partnership.  She wasn't even using his name prior to becoming the model wife during the campaign.  Then, soon as elected, she took the Rodham back. 

The whole system runs on bullshit these days.  The rags are sayin O had gay lovers at Wright's Church, somethin about a few kids who strangely got whacked within a short time of one another all from there, same demographic.  Also, the Starbucks murders here in DC were profiled by the CityPaper as very very suspicious...there was an informant who a cop apparently led into a drug hit and they tried to bury his identity afterwards.  One of the Starbucks victims in a slaying in which everyone in the store got killed but no money or property was stolen was apparently another Lewinski.

You have to be careful who you cross in this country; it's no different from Venezuela or Mexico, just not as overt.  When people get whacked here, nobody even asks the obvious questions.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:19 | 369424 trav7777
trav7777's picture

There was never a prohibition on Pakistan visit at that time.  Material fact is wrong.

As far as 9/11, the truthers cannot marshall sufficient facts to rebut the prima facie conclusion.  Far too many loose ends to be one giant conspiracy, but they pretty obviously did implode WTC7.  This last piece alone makes a lot suspicious because nobody in authority was forthright with why that was done.

But never, ever impute to a sinister conspiracy of masterminds what can be explained by corruption, fraud, or incompetence.  The same coverup happened in OKC, where the blast damage should not have been sufficient to destroy reinforced concrete columns.  The most likely explanation is fraud in the building code enforcement and shoddy construction.  Just like why buildings collapse in China.

As for WTC1, 2, Pentagon...c'mon.  Planes with hijackers and incompetent personnel.  The FBI is not like on TV.  The CIA is not either.  These are government sloth employees, not crackerjacks and masterminds.  They're like all the rest of the people in government.  They cannot solve a crime until after it happens.

Underwear bomber is a perfect example.  Truthers see conspiracy and police state feed, where the most plausible explanation is an intelligence override in order to chase him to bigger fish (hopefully) and get the bust and get on TV and in the papers and feed somebody's career with the terrorism apprehension.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:23 | 369427 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture



Wait, wait. I didn't mean that.

Please don't take my name. I'll do anything. Just tell me who to set up.

Shit! Maybe I should have said that in private.


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:26 | 369438 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

I'm not satisfied with the official explanation of the collapse of towers 1 & 2 either.  There's no way in hell they were felled without assistance.

That being said, the point here is that the government, or whomever is behind this, really thinks we're that gullible.  That a conspiracy so large cannot be pulled off is not in question, but what is in question is the official story, which is total garbage, as usual, and as expected.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:37 | 369459 trav7777
trav7777's picture

You cannot be serious...did you not see those airliners hit them?

The most PLAUSIBLE explanation for structural failure in WTC1 and WTC2 is that the structures were not as strong as we were led to believe.  Perhaps they were heavily corroded, shoddily built...there are any number of explanations.  Only if you ASSUME nothing was wrong with the towers or Murrah in OKC can you conclude that there must have been a sinister conspiracy of fireproof demolitions guys who nobody ever saw installing cutting charges on the support columns.  The whole notion is bullshit.  Never impute conspiracy where incompetence will suffice.

The freakin things collapsed right below the point of impact.  No way in HELL anyone crawled up there with shaped charges, man...uh uh.

WTC7 OTOH, was clearly imploded.  That there was never any explanation offered for this casts into doubt the official explanation.  The question becomes what were they trying to hide?  I cannot see from this question how you reach to "a vast conspiracy where the buildings were hit by remote control airplanes and precision imploded."  There was NOTHING precision about either WTC1 or 2's collapse.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 00:20 | 369510 UncleFurker
UncleFurker's picture


>There was NOTHING precision about either WTC1 or 2's collapse.

Except they both dropped straight down onto themselves, and it's the first time a kerosene bomb has ever felled a skyscraper.


Mon, 05/24/2010 - 03:37 | 369630 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Aluminum clad malotov cocktail, if you will. The law of probability, and of physics would seem to eliminate the possibility 2 buildings of 100+ stories falling virtually into their own footprints unless assisted.

Exhibit A, might be the buildings which were actually bombed during the conflicts in the former Yugoslavia after USSR failed. Still standing.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 05:43 | 369663 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Law of probability and physics?

I believe there was a reason they were called the Twin Towers.  Internally, they shared identical structures, so anything that might cause one to collapse in a certain manner would be liable to cause the twin to collapse in the same manner.


Mon, 05/24/2010 - 06:26 | 369680 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Look at the video. They did not "collapse", they exploded.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 17:58 | 371003 Canucklehead
Canucklehead's picture

Step back and picture in your mind what forces need to be applied to these towers to get them to fall the way you "thought" they should?  The planes did not hit the foundations, they hit a long way up.  What was the mode of failure for those top floors?  Were you expecting "Timber..."

Sun, 05/30/2010 - 23:05 | 382969 velobabe
velobabe's picture



i hope your doing well.

where are you, please†

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 01:09 | 369546 harveywalbinger
harveywalbinger's picture

OK, I'll play.  How do you explain...

The odd coinkydink that the air defense network just happened to be de-activated to play war games when this occurred...  Allowing multiple aircraft to deviate from their flight plans & fly direct to national security interests without intercept?  Strange Once in a lifetime occurrence...

Eye witness accounts of numerous people who swore they heard explosions on the grounds, in & around the buildings...   Another once in a lifetime occurrence.  Getting interesting,...  

Per the official story, burning jet fuel melted the steel structure.  But jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to soften the fire proof steel structure of the WTC buildings.  Bald-faced lies... 

The WTC buildings are the only steel frame buildings ever to collapse from fire.  The towers happened within the space of a couple of hours after the "attacks".  Tower 7 wasn't hit by any aircraft but it fell too.  Though it was hit by some debris from the tower building... It fell in a perfectly symmetric fashion miraculously not causing significant damage to other buildings in the vicinity, inconsistent with the damage it had sustained.  Other similar incidents of fires in similar large structures have burned for an entire day or two but none of those fell.  Treason and Lies...

The discovery of pools of  molten metal were found beneath the rubble of each of the "collapsed" buildings (in an O2 depleted environment) 2 or 3 months after the buildings fell... when uncovered were still ~2000 deg...  Treasonous silence...

The recent positive verification of the presence of thermite goes a long way to explain how the steel structure got hot enough to soften & collapse, eventually melting & pooling..  Why the hell was thermite present?  More treasonous silence...

I know. I know. Just the rants of a crazy conspiracy nut.  Even the utterance of such things is disrespectful.  Clearly this was all just an unfortunate series of coinkydinks.  

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 01:23 | 369556 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

Official story from the national institute of standards and technology is not that the burning jet fuel melted steel columns:

Additionally, the melting of steel is not required for it to fail. According to this website, failure generally happens around 750 deg C.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 01:53 | 369580 The Eradicator
The Eradicator's picture

The problem here is not that the WTC 7 collapsed per se, but that it collapsed symmetrically in its own footprint at near free fall speed and left a pool of molten steel that lasted for weeks after the event. If NIST acknowledges that the jet fuel did not melt the steel then what did?

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 02:03 | 369585 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

Their answers say something about whatever melted steel was found, was melted while in the pile that was burning for a long time. But anyway the link I posted was mostly about their report on WTC 1 and 2. I don't know about WTC 7. 'chindit13', below, mentions WTC 7 as being built over some fuel storage tanks...maybe that had something to do with it.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 02:41 | 369602 The Eradicator
The Eradicator's picture

I think you have the same issue in that diesel fuel also does not burn not enough to melt steel. Also this still wouldn't explain the symmetrical nature of the collapse which is not addressed in the NIST fact sheet.

It's also bothersome to me that they did not test for thermite and did not run computer simulations based on a controlled demolition theory. If they were so sure that controlled demolition did not cause the collapse, wouldn't they ESPECIALLY want to run these tests so they can easily disprove them.

From the NIST link you provided.

"Under certain circumstances it is conceivable for some of the steel in the wreckage to have melted after the buildings collapsed. Any molten steel in the wreckage was more likely due to the high temperature resulting from long exposure to combustion within the pile than to short exposure to fires or explosions while the buildings were standing."

To me this doesn't seen to be a very compelling argument. because (a) what was providing the long exposure to combustion unless the jet fuel was burning for a long period of time and (b) what was preventing the heat from dissipating into the air above.

I do find the collapse of WTC 7 quite troubling, and if you believe that this building was brought down via controlled demolition then it brings up other troubling questions. It brings me no joy to entertain the idea that the US Government may have played a part in this.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 12:55 | 370315 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Not to mention that it requires a blast furnace to melt steel.  Where was the blast of oxygen coming from when all this steel was still burning under a debris pile 10 stories high?



Bull. Shit.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 19:40 | 371148 harveywalbinger
harveywalbinger's picture

Diesel fuel, jet fuel, & kerosene are all similar...  

NIST didn't provide a report, that was a cover story.   

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 02:07 | 369587 Rick64
Rick64's picture

Also you can see molten metal pouring from the sides of T1 and T2 before they collapsed.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 02:35 | 369599 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

NIST says it was airplane aluminum.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 22:44 | 371348 Rick64
Rick64's picture


Not surprisingly, many of the contractors who contributed to the NIST investigation, like the company for which Nair works, just happen to depend on good relationships with the government in order to earn their living. What may be a surprise is just how lucrative these relationships can be. For example, Nair's company, Teng & Associates, boasts of Indefinite Quantity Contracts, long-term relationships with federal government agencies, and federal projects worth in excess of $40 million.6

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 23:46 | 371386 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Was it that special aluminum that glows cherry red like steel.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 09:39 | 369858 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Yes, I am serious.  And you're trying to put words in my mouth.  I already said there wasn't a vast conspiracy.  It doesn't need to be vast.  Only a handful of people needed to know what was going on to carry it out.  If you believe the official story, only about 2 dozen people knew what was going to happen when.  Whether it was 25 Arabs or 25 zionists, the fact is that such a coordinated attack does not need the assistance of everyone in the building and on the planes.

I can debunk your premise with a very simple suggestion.  Build a Lego structure (yeah, you heard me).  Build it about a foot high.  Put a brick on the top of it.  Light it on fire about 1/8 of the way from the top.  Does it collapse?  If you built it like a typical idiot, maybe.

The Twin Towers stood for several decades.  They were not shoddily built.  You explanation requires one to accept conjecture that not even the stupid 9/11 commission invoked.  The buildings, like your Lego structure, should not have collapsed from a fire that was blazing in the top floors, only affecting, if anything at all, the elements of the structure at those floors, not at the base.

The towers fell because they were intensionally compromised to do so.  Ask the engineers who designed the building.  Ask any engineer who actually has a basic understanding of physics and materials.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 12:05 | 370161 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

You cannot be serious...did you not see those airliners hit them?

You saw the first one? You can't be serious.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:40 | 369466 MagicHandPuppet
MagicHandPuppet's picture

You talk of truthers as if you are not one, but then you say "but they pretty obviously did implode WTC7".  Are you trying to contradict yourself, or do you simply have no idea of how illogical you are?

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:49 | 369482 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Are you stupid?  At this point I have to ask that.

A controlled demolition of WTC7 does not PROVE the entire rest of the conspiracy theory regarding the entire incident, you idiot.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 00:14 | 369502 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

I think what he's saying is, how is a controlled demolition of WTC7 a foregone conclusion?

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 00:38 | 369533 dumpster
dumpster's picture

 controlled demolition of WTC7 does not PROVE the entire rest of the conspiracy theory regarding the entire incident, you idiot.


of course not .. when was it wired .. who did it, and if one why not three ,

and at this point the question needs to be asked ,, want  a bridge cheap

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 01:14 | 369549 The Eradicator
The Eradicator's picture

Unless you are suggesting that WTC 7 was wired to implode on Sept 11th after the other buildings were hit, then the wiring must have been done pre 9-11. If so, then how did whoever wired the building know that there would be an event that would allow cover for that building to be brought down?

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 08:33 | 369762 trav7777
trav7777's picture


In a normal controlled demolition, the building is stripped.  This was some kind of emergency.  Actually placing the charges for this type of operation would not take more than a few hours in an emergency.

They had all day to do it.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 09:43 | 369866 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Ok, now who's the idiot?

If you knock a hole in the wall behind you then you haven't really painted yourself into a corner.  Get to it.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 12:06 | 370164 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

Did they start before or after the 2nd plane hit?

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 06:14 | 369674 Sabremesh
Sabremesh's picture

Actually, it does. For two reasons: a successful controlled demolition of WT7 could not be set up from inside a burning building(!) or in such a short time, so it must have been pre-arranged, in secret. If it was done in secret, there was by definition, a conspiracy.

Secondly, if this event was not connected (as you claim) to the destruction of the other two WTC towers - on the same day - it would be a coincidence of almost incalculable improbability.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 08:35 | 369767 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Yet people INSIST that a controlled pull of WTC1 and 2 was what occurred. 

The fires in WTC7 were near the top floors, not the levels needed to collapse it.

The building was pulled but there was no secret team that went in ahead of time.  They went in after surveying the damage to it and the site during the day. 

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 09:50 | 369881 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Oh please, just shut up already.  You're contradicting yourself at every turn now.  The fires in WTC1&2 were also near the top floors, not the levels needed to collapse it.  Yet you INSIST that a controlled demolition took down WTC7.

It takes DAYS to wire a building for controlled demolition.  Don't be an idiot.

Just concede and shut up.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 17:22 | 370947 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

trav you seem to understand the insane emergency of peak oil and our lack of preparation for it but you can't accept that our government would orchestrate a false flag to get / secure the last hanging low fruit?. If they would kill a million in Iraq what's 3000 on a typical work day? Human life means nothing to these people.   

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 09:56 | 369885 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

I don't know about all that. When you watch the video of the collapse of buildings 1 and 2 they seem to symmetrical to be anything but a controlled demolition. I mean, if you know about chaos theory and non-linearity, you would realize that the chance of it collapsing directly into it's foot print is about as likely as the ghost of Davey Jones showing up on the white house lawn in a UFO with Obama's actual birth certificate from when he was born. It seems preposterous that they just collapsed into their own footprint and disintegrated in mid-air as they came down. It's as if it was made of steel one moment and sand the next. It just doesn't make intuitive sense that this explanation (pancake theory) is correct.

When you pair that up with the obvious psy-ops just moments after the collapse, with man-on-the-street inteviees saying things to the effect of 'the heat was too much and the buldings just collapsed due to structural failure', it just seems like we're watching a magic trick.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:22 | 369426 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Jeez, did they hired cut rate progressive bloogers to write that shit?  Talk about bad fiction.

They really think we're that stupid.  Granted, some of us are, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

I am Chumbawamba.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:28 | 369441 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


Paul Joseph Watson, a writer at Prison Planet whom I greatly respect, gave us a reminder Monday May 17th that Obama Czar Wants Mandatory Government Propaganda On Political Websites. The Big Brother Czar is also a Harvard Professor currently dishing up the pabulum for Obama’s White House that “conspiracy theories” should be banned from the Internet; so much for Harvard, Czar-Dr. Cass Sunstein and intellectual freedom.

Cass Sunstein has long been one of Barack Obama's closest confidants.  Often mentioned as a likely Obama nominee to the Supreme Court, Sunstein is currently Obama's head of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs where, among other things, he is responsible for "overseeing policies relating to privacy, information quality, and statistical programs."  In 2008, while at Harvard Law School, Sunstein co-wrote a truly pernicious paper proposing that the U.S. Government employ teams of covert agents and pseudo-"independent" advocates to "cognitively infiltrate" online groups and websites -- as well as other activist groups -- which advocate views that Sunstein deems "false conspiracy theories" about the Government.  This would be designed to increase citizens' faith in government officials and undermine the credibility of conspiracists.  The paper's abstract can be read, and the full paper downloaded, here

Sunstein advocates that the Government's stealth infiltration should be accomplished by sending covert agents into "chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups."  He also proposes that the Government make secret payments to so-called "independent" credible voices to bolster the Government's messaging (on the ground that those who don't believe government sources will be more inclined to listen to those who appear independent while secretly acting on behalf of the Government).   This program would target those advocating false "conspiracy theories," which they define to mean: "an attempt to explain an event or practice by reference to the machinations of powerful people, who have also managed to conceal their role."  Sunstein's 2008 paper was flagged by this blogger, and then amplified in an excellent report by Raw Story's Daniel Tencer.

Kommissar Cass Sunstein wrote a paper in 2008 advocating thought and speech control titled Conspiracy Theories: Causes and Cures. In it, Sunstein recommends a number of bizarre ways in which the government could "ban conspiracy theories." Here's more from WorldNetDaily.

Presidential adviser wrote about crackdown on expressing opinions

President Obama's regulatory czar, Cass Sunstein, argued the U.S. government should ban "conspiracy theorizing."

Among the beliefs Sunstein would ban is advocating that the theory of global warming is a deliberate fraud.

Um, global warming has been proven to be a deliberate fraud!

"We can readily imagine a series of possible responses. (1) Government might ban conspiracy theorizing. (2) Government might impose some kind of tax, financial or otherwise, on those who disseminate such theories."

In the 30-page paper – obtained and reviewed by WND – Sunstein argues the best government response to "conspiracy theories" is "cognitive infiltration of extremist groups."

Sunstein defined a conspiracy theory as "an effort to explain some event or practice by reference to the machinations of powerful people, who have also managed to conceal their role."

Some "conspiracy theories" recommended for ban by Sunstein include:

  • "The theory of global warming is a deliberate fraud."
  • "The view that the Central Intelligence Agency was responsible for the assassination of President John F. Kennedy."
  • "The 1996 crash of TWA flight 800 was caused by a U.S. military missile."
  • "The Trilateral Commission is responsible for important movements of the international economy."
  • "That Martin Luther King Jr. was killed by federal agents."
  • "The moon landing was staged and never actually occurred."

Sunstein allowed that "some conspiracy theories, under our definition, have turned out to be true."

Sunstein cited as a primary example of "absurd" and "hateful" remarks, reports by "right-wing websites" alleging an association between President Obama and Weatherman terrorist William Ayers.

Kommissar Sunstein actually argues that thought and speech control promotes freedom of speech (does he smoke crack too?). Funny, because he even admits that "some conspiracy theories ... have turned out to be true."

So why does he want the government to engage in speech and thought control? Obviously, he believes the government should be able to get away with whatever the hell they want!

Obama staffer wants ‘cognitive infiltration’ of 9/11 conspiracy groups

Sunstein's article, published in the Journal of Political Philosphy in 2008 and recently uncovered by blogger Marc Estrin, states that "our primary claim is that conspiracy theories typically stem not from irrationality or mental illness of any kind but from a 'crippled epistemology,' in the form of a sharply limited number of (relevant) informational sources."

Sunstein "wants to hold blogs and web hosting services accountable for the remarks of commenters on websites while altering libel laws to make it easier to sue for spreading 'rumors,'" wrote Ed Lasky at American Thinker.

What a twisted tyrant! Cass Sunstein's no intellect, he belongs in a mental institution! I mean, he obviously has an unhealthy obsession with power.

Got Fascism? : Obama Advisor Promotes 'Cognitive Infiltration'

[W]e suggest a distinctive tactic for breaking up the hard core of extremists who supply conspiracy theories: cognitive infiltration of extremist groups, whereby government agents or their allies (acting either virtually or in real space, and either openly or anonymously) will undermine the crippled epistemology of believers by planting doubts about the theories and stylized facts that circulate within such groups, thereby introducing beneficial cognitive diversity. (Page 219.)

Put into English, what Sunstein is proposing is government infiltration of groups opposing prevailing policy. Palestinian Liberation? 9/11 Truth? Anti-nuclear power? Stop the wars? End the Fed? Support Nader? Eat the Rich?

It's easy to destroy groups with "cognitive diversity." You just take up meeting time with arguments to the point where people don't come back. You make protest signs which alienate 90% of colleagues. You demand revolutionary violence from pacifist groups.

We expect such tactics from undercover cops, or FBI. There the agents are called "provocateurs" -- even if only "cognitive." One learns to smell or deal with them in a group, or recognize trolling online. But even suspicion or partial exposure can “sow uncertainty and distrust within conspiratorial groups [now conflated with conspiracy theory discussion groups] and among their members,” and “raise the costs of organization and communication” -- which Sunstein applauds as "desirable." "[N]ew recruits will be suspect and participants in the group’s virtual networks will doubt each other’s bona fides." (p.225).

And are we now expected to applaud such tactics frankly proposed in a scholarly journal by a high-level presidential advisor?

Many people on both the right and the left love to attack conspiracy theorists, but I don't understand why. Does it infringe upon their inalienable rights if someone believes NASA never landed on the moon? Does it threaten their own beliefs by causing doubt? Is it scary?

They don't actually trust the government, do they?

If so, they're suckers. But who cares if some people believe humanoid lizard-men appear in holographic form while secretly controlling the world? Just laugh at them! They do not hurt you. But they do hurt the government, and that's why the tyrant Sunstein supports thought and speech control.

Heaven forbid they keep getting caught in their evil acts. Only the "official" story is allowed!

Many conspiracies have been proven to be real! For example, thanks to the Freedom of Information Act, we now know that FDR had prior knowledge of Japan's attack on Pearl Harbor but did nothing. Global warming is indeed an elaborate hoax. Barack Obama was in fact involved with terrorist William Ayers. The list goes on ...

So in honor of Kommissar Sunstein, I'll be writing about conspiracies that turned out to be true! First up, Cass Sunstein's Conspiracy Theory: Operation Northwoods.

P.S. - You may want to prepare yourself. Please make your own Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie!


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:33 | 369451 Apostate
Apostate's picture

Sunstein is actually borrowing from failed CCP policy.

The CCP employs hordes of agents to hang around chat rooms and forums to tow the government line.

Only at Harvard could such a retarded idea be floated. It doesn't even work in China - it wouldn't fly here, either.

These guys are going down. I've said it before, and I'll say it again - I expect Obama to be impeached at some point after the November elections. The Democrats are going to lose their locked-in votes as municipalities and universities are forced to cut staffing.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 04:33 | 369644 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

the 50 cent army they call it in china

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:36 | 369457 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Chumbawamba is gonna rip your head off ..dewd.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:43 | 369475 trav7777
trav7777's picture

So now ANYONE who dissents from the wildest conspiracy theories and attempts to make a factual rebuttal of them is branded a government agent.





Mon, 05/24/2010 - 01:28 | 369561 Johnny Bravo
Johnny Bravo's picture

Kinda like how anybody who is bearish on gold is an employee of Goldman Sachs, "manipulating the price down" so that "they" can buy more.

The people on this site are like five years old sometimes.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 02:49 | 369604 akak
akak's picture

"The people on this site are like five years old sometimes."

If there were ever an instance in which I could appropriately use the phrase "The pot calling the kettle black", this is certainly it.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 02:50 | 369607 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Ya. It's jus so wild. There's a story about oil and all of a sudden a bunch of new people show up to "set everyone straight" and talk about how the source is garbage this and garbage that.

If you've never had that new energy drink green bull made out of propelyne glycol. Let me take you out for a drink sometime Johnny.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:54 | 369484 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Never forget this priceless quote from Sunstein.  In it he sets forth the policy of what I call judicial exclusion.  The idea that people that serve the government in certain capacities should not be held accountable under the rule of law.  Under the previous and current administrations this policy has been broadened to include those individuals who render service to the government under Executive Orders for National Security.

Prosecuting government officials risks a “cycle” of criminalizing public service, [Sunstein] argued, and Democrats should avoid replicating retributive efforts like the impeachment of President Clinton — or even the “slight appearance” of it.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 17:30 | 370961 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Thanks Miles. This concept seems to grow with each administration. That's the beauty of the war on terror. No boundaries. Very frightening shit.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 00:32 | 369528 merehuman
merehuman's picture

i am in construction. I saw the CONTROLLED demolition of 2 towers as well as hundreds of other buildings that fell the same way.  If in fact the planes brougt down the towers, then our steel is crap and comes with its own explosive . Mamy steel buildings have caught on fire. In the end only the steel remains.   Please think and do the research. It was explosives brought down our towers. There is no joy in my heart to have to acknowledge this .

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 08:30 | 369759 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Look, man, you work in residential construction laying granite countertops if you believe that there was anything in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM controlled about the way WTC2 collapsed.

The entire top HALF of the fucking building came down and partially PITCHED and YAWED as it fell.  This is in NO WAY consistent with a controlled demolition.

The WTC were not just on fking FIRE, man, they were hit by LARGE AIRLINERS.

This site CANNOT be this chock full of nutters.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 08:40 | 369772 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

Could you point out that top half of the building in the rubble from any remaining photographs?

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 10:51 | 369997 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

You sure we're talking about the same 9/11? It 'pitched and yawed'? Do you mean, disintegrated? Because if that is what you mean by 'pitched and yawed' then I totally agree with you.

I swear, we're going to be locked up in the FEMA camps for thought crime and we'll still be debating this.

It's like the BP oil spill or AGW, we can debate each point until we're all blue in the face. The bottom line is you're going to believe whatever you want to believe on the subject (side note, the word believe, in essence, means 'i wish this to be true'). By now, it's unlikely that you're opinion will be changed unless you know almost nothing about the arguments.


So, since we'll never be able to convince the other side of our points, we can't achieve anything constructive by debating each specific point.


One thing we can do is realize that, no matter if 9-11 was an inside job or exactly as the official story says, no matter if global warming is man made or caused by the sun, no matter if dick cheney detonated the BP rig or if it was a freak accident, the end result is the same. Specifically, we got the patriot act and warrantless wire tapping; we have cap n' trade in the works; we have between 5,000-100,000 barrels of oil leaking into the Gulf of Mexico. The damage is already done.


I guess my point to all of this is that our earth/way of life is being systematically destroyed. It doesn't matter if it's being destroyed by natural human cycles and stupidity, or if by an international cabal of elite psychopaths. It's being destroyed just the same.


I suppose the ultimate goal is self-preservation. If believing conspiracy theories helps with that, more power to you. If believing that the offical story is exactly what reality is, more power to you.


Just don't friggin put me in jail for thinking something out of consensus or different from you. It's my mind, I can do whatever the hell I want with it, be it wallow in the mire of conspiracy or sloping in the pig-pen official narrative.

Thank you!


Mon, 05/24/2010 - 17:37 | 370973 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Thanks merehuman. You're not alone. There is a growing number of architects and engineers who have stepped up and begun to say the same. There are plenty of others in aviation and the military who have bravely stepped forward. The more who do, the sooner we can realize how much we are lied to and how desperate the oil situation is.    

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:23 | 369429 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

I don't know about the rest of you but I feel much better now.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:25 | 369432 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

I never lie, so why would my government? 

Wright Brothers first fly in 1903. 


Russians orbit earth in 1961.  JFK promises US will land man on moon and return to Earth within 8 years  (58 years later).


Americans orbit moon, land, drive electric car around, take off again in ship about the size of a prius, orbit moon again, and return to earth safely in 1969 (8 years later).


Americans orbit earth in 2010 (41 years later).

One of these events is clearly an outlier.  At least we got satellite TV, Tang, and Velcro for all that money. 


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:28 | 369440 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Uh...there were people watching the landing with telescopes.

I mean, wtf, the entire WORLD went along with the conspiracy??  Even Krushchev?

You guys lose all credibility with the leaps of imagination you're willing to make.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:31 | 369446 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Show me an image taken through one of those telescopes.  Just one, please.  This says you are wrong.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:45 | 369477 trav7777
trav7777's picture

JFC, you are asserting that the MOON LANDINGS were faked?  GFD, they brought back rocks, man.

How do you people sleep at night?

I don't see how the technical difficulties of a moon landing in 1969 were insurmountable because they WEREN'T.  It happened, get over it.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:56 | 369483 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

I don't see how the technical difficulties of a moon landing in 1969 were insurmountable because they WEREN'T.

Because the commies had just scared the shit out of the USA by orbiting the Earth, JFK's ego felt the same way as you about the technical difficulites.  Alas, he was not an engineer. 

But please tell that to the very smart Chinese and Russians who would like very much to land on the moon and return in 2010, but are unable to do so.  They must not be as smart now as the Americans were in the 60's.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 08:26 | 369752 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Yes, they are not as smart now as the Americans in 1969.  You figured it out.

They also don't have access to the same resources today as did the Americans then.

The moon landing happened, FFS.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 14:50 | 370621 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

The new schedule for the lunar landing attempt caught the Soviet Union unprepared. Only three days before the Apollo 11 launch, the Russians launched a hastily assembled Luna 15 space-craft designed to land on the Moon and return a small lunar sample.

I have only rarely wished anyone ill luck with a space mission, but I was relieved to learn that the Russian spacecraft had crashed into the Moon. We would have been greatly disappointed if the Russian mission succeeded in returning a lunar sample to Earth before the Apollo program.


Mon, 05/24/2010 - 00:35 | 369530 dumpster
dumpster's picture

brought back rocks lol

this is a rock from the moon lol

they brought back rocks, man. honesty real rocks stuff we never see here on earth  a rock mind you a rock


Mon, 05/24/2010 - 02:15 | 369592 Rick64
Rick64's picture

LOL, that was funny.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 08:27 | 369756 trav7777
trav7777's picture

You do understand that there are ways to assess whether a rock is terrestrial in origin, right?

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 12:18 | 370212 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

LOL. The real conspiracy is the the rocks on the moon are fake. That is, who put the fake moon rocks on the moon? Now that's a conspiracy!

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 08:56 | 369801 Tense INDIAN
Tense INDIAN's picture

HOAXED first steps of the moon landing:

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 10:54 | 370006 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

Whatever you do don't tell buzz aldrin he didn't go the moon, he'll punch you in the face


Mon, 05/24/2010 - 14:53 | 369471 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Saturn V (Very Large to hold enough fuel) gets them up to the moon .  Here is a photo showing four of the five first-stage engines (of 3 stages):

And another photo.  Hard to undertand how big it is unless you are standing next to it.

The Saturn V had to work because of all the eye witnesses.  No eye witnesses for the lunar landing:

LEM (Very Small because it has to fit in the tip top of the Saturn V) + Command Module gets them up and back to Earth:

The ascent stage is where the astronauts ate and slept while on the Moon. It contains all of the electronic equipment necessary for controlling both the decent stage and the ascent stage during decent, ascent, and rendezvous. It also contains all the environmental control and life support systems, the docking apparatus, and the reaction control systems. It too has an engine that was used to launch the astronauts from the lunar surface and into orbit with the awaiting command module. [That it must also contain all the fuel for the engine to land the two men and their ship softly using retro rockets AND lift them back up into lunar orbit is not mentioned, ever.]  The last act of the lower decent stage was to serve as a launch platform for the ascent stage. The ascent stage is physically smaller than the decent stage. Because the decent stage was left behind on the Moon, weight is shed, and fuel is conserved. The lunar module gives us a good example as to how well John Houbolt lunar rendezvous concept actually worked.

Wow!  Great engineering for the 60s.  I understand that the moon has only 1/6 the gravity of Earth, although I don't recall those guys jumping very high on the moon (and you won't find any photos), but the LEM is much much much smaller than 1/6 of the Saturn V.

See any evidence of the rocket engine having blasted the soil only a few feet away as it softly touches down?

Compare with NASA's technology to just land, not return with two men and rocks, but just land a much much smaller remote controlled toy car on a planet with sightly more gravity, Mars.  Why didn't they use retro rockets to achieve a soft landing like the LEM?  Too much fuel, just to land:


Darn it, the .gov lost all the evidence (as we became able to digitze, breakdown, slow down, enhance, zoom, and analyze motion pictures with our home computers...

Just show any kid under 12 the footage from the moon and ask them if they think it is fake or real.

I guess you are right, however, and I should just get over it.  With the cold war and all that pork $ going to Texas and Florida (large voting blocks) I see no reason for the to have lied.  Do you? 

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 05:34 | 369661 chindit13
chindit13's picture

"about the size of a Prius"

Descending Lunar Module specifications:

Height:  20.9 feet

Diameter:  14 feet

Weight:  22,375 lbs.

Never knew those damn Prius' were so big!  Heck, I can probably fit a Prius inside a Prius.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 12:56 | 369886 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

The ascending stage is the much smaller top section, I have sat in one, less than 40% of the dimensions you state, which includes the landing gear.  Here is a photo of the LEM with ascending unit attached on the top of the descending unit, plus people for scale:

It is undisputed fact, not opinion, that for the lunar landing to occur the spacecraft shown in this photo must contain all of the following:

  • Two astronauts and their air, water, food for three days and space suits
  • Two (2!) rocket ship engines
  • All the rocket fuel to land softly on the moon using retro rockets (no atmosphere to slow decent via parachutes, etc.)
  • All the fuel to lift of the surface of the moon and enter lunar orbit
  • Moon rocks

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:25 | 369435 arnoldsimage
arnoldsimage's picture


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:26 | 369437 blindman
blindman's picture

the us state department is paid to lie to the population for

the sake of their paymasters.  follow the money which is a

fraud unto itself.  so... haha ... what? miles davis.  a horn,  trumpet,

player,  artist, speaking in tones and voices,  syncopated, and

right brain intelligible, left brain, irrelevant.  but.....

shit you not.....the "state department" itself exist in the realm

of myth.  (voices of authority, jaynes).   again, so what?  m.d.

and again, so what?


bldg. wtc 7 fell into it's own footprint.  so what?


exactly .  period.  exactly. period.  a controlled demolition. period.

so what?  m.d.  again.

so what?


myth.  myth!  myth.  myth is a man in a cave who magically willed

a steel and concrete supported 47 story structure in down town manhattan

to fall into it's own footprint without having to apply structural severing

explosives to the support structure.

.  so what?  m.d.

what is reality t.v.?  i hear about this.


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:28 | 369443 Apostate
Apostate's picture

They forgot to mention Agent Orange, which continues to poison Vietnamese with dioxin.

I actually agree that Osama had little to do with 9/11. 

9/11 was basically a Columbine event. Some disaffected Saudi young men were really pissed off and pulled off something similar to what something like 95% of red-blooded American teenage males have dreamed about in idle moments.

Blowing up Afghanistan to retaliate against the crimes of a small number of bored Arabs made very little sense. Bush seized the opportunity to throw an old American intelligence asset against the wall to take advantage of the political carte blanche provided to him.

He did this against the strong advice of the CIA. Bush and his inner circle of idiots told the intelligence community to go fuck themselves. 

See James Bamford's "A Pretext for War" for more information.

Bamford's the most well-regarded and scrupulous journalists covering the American intelligence agencies. He deals in conspiracy facts rather than mere conspiracy theories.

I also recommend the popular non-fiction book "Charlie Wilson's War" ( for more information about how the United States funded the Afghan mujahadeen and made Osama into a sort of Che Guevera figure for those paramilitaries. The movie is garbage - avoid it.


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:54 | 369479 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

And the sarin, cyclosarin & mustard gas exposures of unprepared civilians and soldiers alike... and the long term health effects.  From one that was there at Khamisiyah.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:58 | 369491 Apostate
Apostate's picture

The US regularly tests biological weapons, experimental drugs, and other agents on privates and other low-ranking soldiers as a matter of policy.

None of this is secret; you can learn about it by reading newspapers or through books at your local library.

Typically, when veterans sue the government for damages, they get crushed. The government can employ any number of pseudo-scientists and quack doctors to over-ride the testimony and evidence collected by ex-soldiers.

So, *ahem,* there are good reasons as to why the government ought to fear its own foot-soldiers far more than it does bloggers.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 00:22 | 369508 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Especially when the matter of legitimacy to govern under the UCMJ is now a subject of conversation within the ranks due to the extraordinary exercise of super constitutional power.  The root of what constitutes lawful authority and a lawful order.  Just about every profession and those that populate them are getting served a shit soup sandwich and the condition you describe applies broadly. The essence of Fight Club is that we are everywhere, in every profession & trade...

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 00:36 | 369531 Apostate
Apostate's picture

I'm glad to hear that - and you're not the first that I've heard it from, recently. I hope the word continues to circulate.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 01:31 | 369560 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

A couple of quick thoughts.  Namely that the membership of an armed force is generally representative of the society it is drawn from. The other is that the veterans and active army have broken in two previously so the concept is not unknown to the institution. Many of the problems baked in at the time of our nations founding were settled when that split happened, but the issue of the splitting of the ranks itself was set aside. The questions surrounding lawful authority and orders is an ancient one and the totality of circumstances that are now present are quite amazing in relation to this topic.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 01:18 | 369550 Whats that smell
Whats that smell's picture

"Escape from Guantanamo"

More close to the truth than most would imagine. 


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:30 | 369448 cbaba
cbaba's picture

We should also add the Gold plated Tungsten bars flied away from Fort Knox to the list.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:34 | 369453 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


Add to that the missing Gold stored in the towers.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 00:19 | 369509 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

The missing 200 mil from the comex vaults in WTC7? And that one car filled with gold that didn't make it out of the garage in time?

Is there even anything left in Ft Knox? Who knows, since we haven't had an audit in decades.

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 00:30 | 369526 Slewburger
Slewburger's picture

They also forgot the theory that the FDIC is insolvent.

My foil hat is the fvcking rage!!!


Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:33 | 369449 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

It's unfortunate that "our community organizer" no longer takes questions from the English speaking press.

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:34 | 369452 Slewburger
Slewburger's picture

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."

Sun, 05/23/2010 - 23:37 | 369458 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Ghandi v. Hopey

Mon, 05/24/2010 - 01:58 | 369465 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture

Shows us just how much juice the State Department has in the administration of a Nobel Peace Prize recipient.  War, terror, genocide, starvation and all of the other concerns of the striped pants brigade and the focus is on responding to what are viewed as conspiracy theories by the diplomats, or whoever is giving them their marching orders over at the OEOB.   What's best about this whole posting is that we are asked to listen to another rendition of believe what we are being told and not what we witness.  Thinking on this for more than a moment I suspect that this must be a contracted service & consultation.  What a waste. 

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