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Guest Post: What Are The Social Implications Of Economic Collapse?
From Simon Black at Sovereign Man
What Are The Social Implications Of Economic Collapse?
For the last few days, we’ve been having an important discussion
about the magnitude of the economic challenges in the west; if you
didn’t read yesterday’s letter,
I really encourage you to do so before proceeding because it’s
important to understand why the west has truly passed the point of no
return.
Simply put, the United States and much of Europe are borrowing an
extraordinary amount of money now just to pay interest on the money
they’ve already borrowed. They cannot even self-fund their mandatory
entitlement programs without going into the hole, and their options are
limited:
Option 1: Continue borrowing, keep the party going.
As long as the government CAN do this, they WILL do this. Regardless
of their intentions, though, more debt only worsens the situation,
creating higher borrowing costs in the long run, and even more debt. As
this happens, the pool of buyers begins to dry up, especially from
overseas.
Option 2: Inflation
The more buyers stop purchasing Treasury securities, the more the
Federal Reserve will mop up the excess liquidity. In doing so, the Fed
essentially conjures up money and loans it to the government.
No matter what the government monkey statistics say, this is
inflationary, plain and simple. The more money they print, the greater
the level of inflation in the long-term. Meanwhile, as foreigners
simultaneously reduce their US dollar holdings, this inflation will
become more acutely felt in the US.
Option 3: Austerity
There’s going to come a time when the US government is forced to face
its economic reality and make some incredibly deep cuts that would be
felt across society, from Wall Street and the military industrial
complex to project housing on the other side of the tracks.
Option 4: Default
Eventually, the debt burden is simply going to be too much, and the
most obvious solution will be to default. Politicians will make China
out to be the enemy and they will probably invent a war just to have an
excuse to default on Chinese owned debt. Americans will wave the flag
and celebrate defaulting on their enemies.
Option 5: Economic Cannibalism
In the best traditions of Atlas Shrugged, the government will
continue its persecution of the productive class– professionals,
investors, entrepreneurs, and skilled workers. Existing taxes will rise,
new taxes will be created, trade barriers will be enacted, and a maze
of cost prohibitive regulations will be passed.
The first option (keeping the party going) is what has been happening
for years. Politicians make small concessions to show they’re “serious”
about fiscal discipline, cutting laughably small programs while dumping
hundreds of billions of dollars into wars and entitlement programs.
The worse the debt situation becomes, though, the higher the
borrowing costs become, and the worse the debt situation becomes. It’s
not an enviable position. Existing lenders will continue backing away
from the US Treasury market, giving option 1 a half-life measured in
months at best.
In the longer term, only options 2-5 remain: inflation, austerity,
default, and cannibalism. Each of these remaining options will shake the
financial system to its core. More importantly, each of these has the
power to create widespread social upheaval.
When inflation eats away at a family’s already meager standard of
living, when austerity eliminates the benefits to which recipients have
grown accustomed, when default vanquishes a retiree’s savings, when high
taxes make workers feel like they’re just government serfs– this is
when the real turmoil will begin:
- Rising crime: devoid of a job or means to support their families, people will turn to crime out of desperation
- Class warfare: with dividing lines drawn between have’s vs.
have-not’s, it will become unpopular and even dangerous to be successful - Corruption: low-level public service officials will look to supplement their income through bribery and kickbacks
- Black economy: An underground, cash-only (probably gold or foreign
currency) economy will emerge with people getting paid in envelopes - Censorship: Of course they’ll blame it on national security, but
the idea will be to prevent public disparaging of government policy - War: The government will need another major event to distract people from the real problems
- Protests/Riots: This is when things turn bloody
- Police state conditions: The government will close ranks and send
the cops out to show all the little people who’s really in charge
There are a number of other manifestations, and many are already
showing signs of emergence. The US and European police states are alive
and well. Crime is on the rise.
In Europe, cops are doing battle in the streets with their citizens.
Think it can’t happen in the US? Remember tanks in the streets during
the LA riots? Remember New Orleans? Remember any number of G8/G20
protests?
Here’s the bottom line: all you have to do is glance at the headlines
to see what happens when you strip people of their livelihood, of their
ability to put food on the table for their families.
The US has been able to kick the can down the road with the most
blunt social implications simply because the country benefits so much
from a US-oriented financial system. This is coming to an end very, very
quickly.
As a rule of thumb, the greater the economic distortion, the harder
the collapse. The US economy has been in a fantasy world for so long,
and when its dominant primacy is yanked away, the collapse will be at
freefall speed.
Listen… I’m not talking about the end of the world here, I’m talking
about difficult times ahead, and the things that go beyond economics.
It’s time to face facts and look at how society will change (and has
already changed).
Tomorrow, I’d like to write more about what we can do now. Meanwhile,
please tell me what you think about this– how do you see society
changing from this reset of the financial system?
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"The idea of starting a war (and bringing back the draft to get all the gangbangers off the streets) would be most logical"
Sigh, that's already been happening with the Iraq war: http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,120114,00.html
That's why they got rid of don't ask don't tell, so they can bring the draft back. Claiming homosexual tendencies is no longer a bar to induction/ enlistment.
Let me see if I've got this straight.
The ECB prints Euros and buys US Government debt and the JCB prints yen and buys US Government debt. And the cycle just continues in perpetuity.
Why does this have to end? Keep the ponzi scheme going forever. Am I missing something? Who has enough capital to stop the central banks from just keeping the charade going forever?
Good question.
I think they became too greedy, as always happens (study Rome in the 3rd and 4th century AD, look at the last french kings, look at Weimar, look at the Aztecs (collapse because of mismanaged agricultural system)). A good parasite never kills the host, weakens it, but killing the host means that it'll be out of a job afterwards. Some parasites are in such a mindset, they don't see that eventuality. I believe this to be exactly the case.
There are some good reasons to expect "social engineering" to take place in the future (one is that it happened in the past), but I need more data, more substance. A lot of it is "wild eyed" fear mongering, and distracting. Some of it seems to be true.
One other thing is, the elite seem to warn people beforehand, somehow tell them what they're about to do. I don't know if this is meant to be internal communication, or their idea of "natural selection", I just know it happens, and there are signals to be picked up for the keen of eye.
I keep an eye out for the elite "hat-tip" and I agree with you that there always seems to be a warning - Like DSK raping a maid in a hotel in NY two weeks before the Bilderberg meetings.
Hi Reptil - You are of course right that biological survivor parasites don't kill their hosts. Tranfered to conceptual/intellectual parasites, i.e. the globalist bankster/corporate/hegemon cartels, it would mean they would have to orchestrate sufficient trickle-down to the masses, which mode of operation would contradict Simons above assertion that "it will become unpopular and even dangerous to be successful" - that is to say, NO - it is never dangerous to become successful IF the successful person is enlightened, IF the successful person understands that his/her wealth is derived from a system/structure/market and opportunities which he/she did not create - which understanding/enlightenment naturally enduces the thus enlightened successful person to "GIVE BACK" to the system from which his/her wealth is derived.
Now, for such enlightenment to happen, the intellectually moronic and dishonest cult of the rising individual must be exposed and demolished - for it is but an illusion of collective vanity by transferance to the perceived "successful" "stars" and "priests" of the cult.
I hereby, and daily, attemot to take this first step: exposure of the cult's complete and utter lack of intellectual integrity - its vanity, its deceipt and delusion.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons
How is is the PRIVATE PROPERTY-hegemon-Wall-Street-Pentagon-Corporatist Facist Empire empire working for you?
Those who will not give back, share and acknowledge the co-creative source of their wealth, i.e. the larger structure from and upon which they rise materially, will eventually be cut down. History has no exceptions. Individuals are mortal - only communities continue.
The cult of individual ascent, celebrity, fame, power, wealth is both moronic, vain, inhuman and ungodly. Individual material ascent by "investment"/leverage and or manipulation has no glory, no intellectual merrit and no claim to respect from mankind.
Accumulation of wealth by innovative, productive, quality, improved goods & services is commendable if the wealth is given back to the system from which is is derived. All else is provincial, moronic, delusional self-love, and will fail in every possible way.
excellent, thanks for that +100
Most of the world's elite are highly steeped in the occult.
The phenomenon of these subtle warnings is central to their luciferian belief system and has to do with karma.
If you are warned of impending events by them and take no actions to protect yourself and/or your assets, they avoid bad karma, and you will suffer whatever happens as a result of your own inaction.
They abuse their power and then blame the victim for allowing it.
Of course this doesn't mean that their victims could have prevented it, but that is irrelevant.
Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law.
True, and not.
Does have something to do with karma in some cases, though it's the lashing of the worm of chaos, not the Hindu variety.
Only some abuse power.
Thelemites are not the ones doing this.
The Beast has many heads.
Thelemites are only one.
MS - very interesting.
This M.O. - "They abuse their power and then blame the victim for allowing it. Of course this doesn't mean that their victims could have prevented it, but that is irrelevant. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law." - sounds kind of Libertarianism - and the original "Anglo-Saxxon" method - in the sense that certainly one should not take another's property by violence and murder, but - if another doesn't use his property or doesn't protect it adequately or can be folled out of it - well then he has the freedom to lose it to the more cunning, knowledgeable or dominant player upon the stage/theatre of life and war.
Which same "bamboozlement by the stronger player" attitude is also the ad hoc prime justifyer of US empire, as casually referred to as "US/our interests around the world.
Self-justification, Ladies and Gentlemen - and not much else, is the substance of such "philosophy", "religion" and "ideology" - which obviously is completely devoid of any and all ability to think, or receive divine inspiration or detect or construct any logos what so ever.
It's taunting. I've seen it on a smaller scale, too- they do it to gloat.
Sort of like a kid on a playground telling the other kids "Nah, Nah, I know something you don't."
.
on a long enough timeline the survival rate for every Ponzi scheme drops to zero
-Madoff
-Amway
-Quixtar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Ponzi_schemes
- US Dollar
Amway is NOT a Ponzi -- they actually MAKE and SELL products.
It cannot continue forever due to the fact that there are limited PHYSICAL resources: that's the whole point behind gold. Even the virtual world has limits: those harnessed electrons don't come free.
I see that I got junked by one of those flat-earthers... Morons! Step and argue for how the planet isn't finite, or that electrons as we push them through wires doesn't cost us any physical resources.
If we can recapitalize the system on a gold and silver standard and abolish fractional reserve banking and run a banking system where time structure of liabilities is in tune with the balance of payments in gold and silver...then we will have a chance otherwise get ready for hell on a global scale because like you said the politicians WILL point fingers at each other specifically china and the U.S. but it could get alot worse then that it could literally be a everyone points fingers at the U.S. at once situation(given the situation in europe and the IMF involvement)....that could be very bad...as we've seen with the last couple world wars blind collectivist rage and angst gets pretty nasty...the politicians have a chance to cut their losses be honest and recapitilize the system in gold and silver and let the chips fall where they may let those who will be in the best position to invest what they have in productive enterprize but, as we ALL know we are dealing with 534 ferrets on crack and one baboon (no racial pun intended but when you use a teleprompter for speeches,monkey see monkey do comes to mind)
my 2c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_gB2u48mLw&feature=related
I was thinking today, our problem is that we have to take a dump. We had to take a dump in 2008 but we decided that would be painful so we squeezed hard. Now we have to take a bigger dump. The dump is stacking up. Those of us not on hopium can feel that the dump is big and will be painful to pass but we can't be sure how much damage the dump is going to do until we finally take the dump. There is a giant dump that we need to take and we are all terrified of the amount of tearage there will be. If you don't have some gauze, a needle and thread, and some neosporin, you're not ready. This dump is big and it will result in some level of tearage.
I'll add that we've been on a strict PF Chang's diet for the last 30-40 years and that it is time to drink some prune juice instead of ordering more appetisers. Our derrieres will be unable to handle another non-small/non-liquid dump for a while after this one.
ewww, change the imagery next time, will ya?
You were in a CPA meeting today for a mid-size business when all of a sudden you realize that 20 burrito box at Taco Bell you ate last night is attempting to find its exit strategy. You can't leave your meeting and start day dreaming about the national debt. You have to really squeeze your cheeks together when all of a sudden this pseudo poetic allegory comes to mind. You realize that Americans can relate to feces metaphors wayyy more than snow balls.
Am I close? I only ask because I had a similar experience last week.
No, this is from a very old experience in my single college days which taught me that being a regular guy is important. That along with seeing today's finances for what they are, a giant dump pile.
Can we use the anal probe on Bernanke?
In the USSA, Bernanke anal probes you!
The problem is the first dump is never the last dump. You have to keep taking dumps which will rip open the stiches from the first giant dump. Eventually thouh, the dumps are small enough that it won't tear open the stiches. Then, we will be making progress in the right direction.
Try a tablespoon of epson salt in a quart of warm water and drink as fast as possible.... it's like the fourth of july in your rectum
Who knew that so many ZHers would be so well versed in, um, regularity issues.
Add that we're in a room full of high-powered, RUNNING, fans!
This dump is big and it will result in some level of tearage.
You are my new hero. I... I can't express it in mere words.
The most realistic outcome is a totalitarian regime. Caesar...who has the biggest arsenal in the world. But its also a possibility for a resurgence of civic values...which requires just the contrary...a social revolution. This second option is totally novel to the USA since its inception. Social dialogue has never really existed in the USA as we understand it in europe and even less so since Reaganomics was initiated. As a young, unconstrained country population and land wise...the US population will discover the sobering effects in dire conditions of depression as in the 1930s. The US managed to avoid both types of options stated above thanks to WW2 and the New Deal. Although a large portion of current population contest government initiated programs today. Its not mainstream in popular US culture. If the depression occurs...and the elites we call Oligarchy are as corrupt as we think they are, the spiral down could be very destructive.A guy like FDR could easily become a totalitarian czar. Difficult to predict which way the cookie could crumble if we head to great depression.
well this is probably a taboo topic, but the truth was that Germans were begging for a WW II because unemplyoment was so high that they dind't see any other resolution.
a little history course for people junking me just because they don't like the fact:
http://www.english.illinois.edu/maps/depression/about.htm
That and the asshole French in the Ruhr. Beating up on poor germans for years after you've stolen their best base for production doesn't seem like a good idea to me...just saying.
yep, and I wonder how it turns out when Greece sells the Acropolis and all their gold to get another bailout for a few months
Just remember the facts from history. The last time our economy collapsed, most people lived in rural areas. Now most people live in urban areas. It's going to be hell on Earth folks, and the wise should prepare accordingly.
http://www.newsociety.com/Books/R/Reinventing-Collapse
Not only that, but we're down to, what, 1 or 2% of the population farming for the rest of the country; farming was much more distributed 80+ years ago.
Two future worlds: (1) the wealth gap decreases; (2) the wealth gap stabilizes/remains the same. In the first, we get the seeds to begin an attempt at rebuilding some semblance of a moral existence, longevity, consistency, and autonomy. In the second, we remove our glass ceiling and place chains on ourselves, get stronger backs, farmers tans, and the periodic whipping, with no chance for upward mobility.
If we do nothing and our slothful lifestyles and general apathy continue, we face the second scenario.
Our problem is that we must likely partake in immoral acts to correct the ship, as it will be practically impossible to bridge the wealth gap fairly. Further, the power wielded to do so must be relinquished once the job is done and the system allowed to fend for itself to revert back to previously established rules and regulations (decades/centuries ago).
No easy choices.
Bridging the wealth gap thru immoral acts.....hmmm
Does that rationalize liberating TV's from small electronics stores?
Killing people like mozillo and blankfein and expropriating their capital?
I worry that the immoral acts should be targeted and nuanced.. the korean grocer and the small shop owner are not rich.
I again repeat my previous post....250,000 per year is not rich. You must aim higher.
Right, but the pitchforks are not a trial on the merits... they're fueled with conjecture and hearsay and pre-determine guilt. The fact is, despite having strong suspicions of immoral acts by many financial elite, we have no way of fleshing our our hypotheses until discovery and trial.
The problem is that if we support the mob, innocent people will certainly be punished in the process... just as the elite have wielded power for their own subjective benefit, the mob will likewise. Absolute power...
The problem is we have to use existing mechanisms within the system to save it... the problem is, no one actually understands the system... it's become too complex... and the mechanisms of our correction are unknown except by those presently entrenched in authority positions (de facto). We may even need to free ourselves of parts of the system... but, again, determining how those parts fit into the whole is too difficult given the interconnected nature of it all... as a result, we sit on our hands and wait.
Exactly. Communists and capitalist haters are a joke. This is not classism unless we are talking about Zombie Lords compared to zombies. The Zombie Lords are the ones that need to die here, not their countless minions. This is all hypothetically speaking of course.
Sovereign Wealth Funds and Mixed Economies, bitchez!
Oh wait, I misread that. I thought you meant 'those who hate capitalism AND communism are a joke...', as in 'pig-headed economic fundamentalist zealots of any stripe are laughable'. My bad; I didn't realize you were probably one.
I'm all for capitalism. Corporatism is an enemy of liberty however no matter what flavor it is sold to We the People as (fascism, socialism, etc.)
thanks for clearing the air.
I've got money on my flank that says your definitions of all those 'isms you're selling are heavily peppered with a strong flavour of bullshit.
Please refer to the French Revolution for instruction in mob rule. In France, towards the end of the Terror, housewives heard to complain about the price of bread were rounded up for the guillotine. It wasn't called the Terror just because they killed off their aristocrats - if anyone deserved a grisly fate it was those guys and they weren't much mourned (too bad about their wives and children huh?), but once they had killed off all the titled parasites they could get their hands on and things had not really improved, they went a little mad. I would not count on the ravening hoards making much of a distinction between the really rich and the merely comfortable in such a case. If you live in a mcmansion in a gated community I would consider downsizing considerably and hiding my light under a basket.
tct your dissent is showing again, you `sweet talker` you.
"upward mobility"
And your definition of this is?
Let's just start the SAME fucking race all over...
I asked my nigerian friend why all the scams came from nigerians.
He said it is a highly educated country used to a middle class life. When it collapsed people started scamming to get back their lifestyle as much as possible. There were not enough legitimate well paying jobs anymore to support people's expectations.
And then he proceeded to scam you with some BS song and dance. Highly Educated Nigerian Scammers? The notion itself is almost rich enough for an entire sitcom.
what has amerika become if not a giant bucket shop?
"I asked my nigerian friend why all the scams came from nigerians."
Ask if they scam themseves or if it's just "Americans." Also, would they bother to scam anyone who they knew couldn't be scammed? (implications being that "Americans" aren't as smart/superior as they think they might be.)
Just follow the availability of food, either via shortages or affordibility, is the time we turn into the ME.
Keep the faith in the concept of Creative Destruction
http://transcriptions.english.ucsb.edu/archive/courses/liu/english25/materials/schumpeter.html
This could be the opportunity to bring about sensible economics.
+1
How about starting with the FACT that we live on a round planet, not a flat one? We've been overrun by flat-earth thinking for WAY too long...
The Fed's are getting ready to reach deep into America's rural areas and extract every last iota of wealth, read the latest Executive Order.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/06/09/executive-order-establishment-white-house-rural-council
It looks like a first step to controlling American food production even more than it already is. Lenin would be proud!
Call me paranoid, but...
Paging Mr. Rawles, Mr. James Wesley Rawles, to a green TA-1 field phone. Paging Mr. Rawles...
Everyone here at ZH is urged to read Mr. Rawles' work, "Patriots".
Not only should they read it and other material like it...
They should ACT on that material while time still allows. Prepare for the day when your fiat money buys nothing, for that day is coming quickly.
+++
There may not be much time left. And lots to do.
I would suggest that the Feds may find that folks out in the country are not quite the same as the city sheeple.
;)
If you want to eat comrade, you must turn in your weapons!
Very true.
Most rural residents live where they do because they want to be left alone. It would probably be fair to say that almost everyone is armed, some much more so than others. The feds will be forced to learn many painful lessons by attempting to impose their tyranny on rural populations.
Not really. It wont take but a round from a Main Battle Tank, Few from a Bradley or a Javelin to erase the farmhouse.
Why would anyone be hiding in the farmhouse when they can snipe from the treeline?
I'd swear you're a Welshman! (Watch your heat signature)
A country boy will survive.
This must have been issued in response to the massive protests in rural areas demanding increased "effectiveness of Federal engagement with rural stakeholders."
Fucking ridiculous.
Oh and Secretary of Agriculture Vilsak will be the Chair - Vilsack is into large industrial farms and GMO crops. When he was governor of Iowa he originated a seed pre-emption bill in 2005 which blocked local communities from regulating where GMO crops would be grown. He is also a huge proponent of Ethanol.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-14/senate-rejects-bid-to-kill-etha...
Why I have no use for THEM! (take my money and grow food to put in the energy-wasting fuel tanks of the elites!)
Jezus that reads like a rough sketch of a CCCP playbook. Sowhozy or Kolhozy (collective farms).
Not surprising since Glyphosphate renders most life impossible. (except unknown, hitherto unnamed pathogens, and killer viri)
Of course it go either way, but I think reading up on that is useful.
1922: http://www.marxists.org/archive/bukharin/works/1922/economic-organisatio...
beyond:https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Economy_of_the_Soviet_Uni...
agriculture: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Collective_farming
Kill the rich Kulaks.
Save the commune.
Sec 4 c.) gives this group the USDs for the city folk. Believe me, out here in coal country we aren't expecting much more than the mega wealthy hiding in the hills again.
Food for thought-
Joke told by an NJ comedian: Oh, I'm not scared of the mob. They just shout you. It's the hillbillies I'm afraid of. They keep you.
Reaching and succeeding are two different things.
Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq... laughable that success could magically materialize in the US.
expanded war and war powers to piss off the world... and keep us safe next to the TV... the system aint going nowhere, no crash of the system until after WWIII
.
keep in mind the public is the white knucked political technocrats... not the police state, they havent even begun to shut people off
Sacramento police will not respond to ........."misdemeanor crimes, including theft and vandalism; burglaries, and traffic accidents that do not include serious injuries"
welcome to the new reality..........
ditto in San Francisco. only serious injury crimes get any followup. I am surprised we don't have even more property crime than we do. budgets are increasingly going to pay pension benefits instead of providing services to the taxpayers... you can see where that's heading.
And yet the idiot liberals PC Nazi's still want to keep people unarmed in SF. They deserve what happens to them!
I guess realistically it will look something like this
"Time of the Wolf"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0324197/
It's not your average Armageddon movie, it's 'very' realistic
or at a later stage
"The Road"
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0898367/
However I think this will be like this only in Europe, urban USA, and other highly urbanized areas, any1 living in remote rural areas should do fine(as long as he has something to defent him self from the hordes)
I am not saying that I expect this scenario to happen 100%, I think I will most likely be different, people will abandon all property, privacy and freedom to stay alive, and we'll end up in a managed world gulag
It all sounds like a perfect description of post Soviet Russia. They did go through it, too much money in some places and too little everywhere else, and nobody knew the value of any of it. There was a time when it would be fair to say they had no functioning government, some of you will like that, even if it means your sisters and moms have to give blow jobs to get through it, but then that is the world of Ayne Rand.
Of course we can speculate till our fingers bleed but none of us knows what will happen when the collapse comes, I suspect that a few very well placed people and computer systems they control will have something to say about it, a plan, and doubless we will not like it, but then there will be no palatable alternatives either so ennui will probably suck most of us in.
Two things we know, there has to be a collapse which entails severe changes in our lives and standards of living, things will not get better either in the short or the long run. As bad as things are now we will look back on this period as one of great prosperity. And mind you I am not even a cynical person, that above is not pessimism, it is the most positive outcome imaginable, a real pessimist can come up with world wars, Mad Max, global chaos resulting in mass death, etc.
"things will not get better either in the short or the long run."
Depends on what you mean by "better."
Balance is what is good. What we're experiencing now if the result of severe imbalance.
The initial thought that cutting one's foot off would be bad, until you find out that that's the ONLY way in which one could have escaped the trap/saved their life.
Things can only be quantified when the whole it taken into consideration (and then it's only a snapshot in time, with time altering that which is being measured).
I was thinking in terms of a modern collapse, total collapse, of the economy, of the money, of the government, of state itself. What Russia went through is what we are facing globally now, not just in America, any large player going down means the reserve currency goes down, and the reserve currency going down means all other systems go down as well.
And I think Russia is an excellent model of this because they are as close to a pluralistic social situation as the world has yet seen compared to America. Many languages, many countries incorporated into their empire, many different looking and sounding people, many religions. And a constitutional guarantee that Asian origins, or Muslim roots do not make you less a citizen. In many ways the Soviets were an echo of the US. A universal legal tender, an overarching federal government that attempted too much, with mostly good motives, but in the end wrong.
There was a stab at military takeover, remember the shelling of the White House? Please look at this 1993 footage of the Russian military bringing tanks into the heart of Moscow and tell me this can't happen here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fyTMc9lqCo You should look, 5 minutes out of your life, and it was the moment the Soviet system died. On that day their money had no real value, the government had no power (gave up, what government), and those that stood up to the tanks put Yeltsin in power because though he was a bad choice he was all they had. A drunk and a small player in the Soviet system, he was better than some general with a boner for NATO and the USA.
You can say the people made the wrong choice, that they could have done better, but look at the video, they had no time to work with. They geographically lost a third their country and all their international prestige and power. Along with more than a third the population, and even though their ruble is now convertible on the international ForEx they paid a high price for stability in the form of oligarchs and their champion Putin who is as ranchavist and belligerent as any old Soviet was. Tsar Putin, he is backed by the people, they traded their potential for bread and vodka.
Speaking of vodka, it took less than 3 years for the average lifespan in Russia to drop 20 years, the average male in Russia now can expect to live 55 years, they used to have a better longevity than the USA. When the shit hit the fan employment dropped by 50%, more people had no job to go to than did, but those that did are still waiting to get paid. Russia has among the lowest standards of living of any "developed" nation in the world, yet Moscow and St. Petersburg are both in the top ten cities of the planet for cost of living, especially rents and house prices.
You all thought I was kidding or exaggerating when I said that women prostitute themselves for food, booze, or a few cents, AIDS is now a major killer there, drugs are an epidemic. And when everything goes to shit there is one item your ammo and all your PM's can't give you, human touch, warmth, being with people. Icky for sure, but try to get along without it. The real unemployment rate in Russia after 18 years is still over 50%. Most of those employed still make less than poverty wages when those even get paid.
That is what we face fellow ZH'rs. Money will still be around but it's value will be low and capricious. Barter will be by far a bigger way to do business, but barter when you have no goods means barter for services, and some of those services will be what we call illegal now. I doubt it will be biker assholes running roughshod over us, because we will all be in the same boat and when someone does take from you it will only happen once before you figure out how to protect what you have, they know that too, you can steal and rape and kill for about two weeks before people realize that law is no longer available for help either way, then the people will just shoot the assholes on sight.
You who hoard and think you are going to be preserving your great American way of life till it gets better, your labor, your goods via PM's, and you claim you will defend it with ammo and resolve, get a clue, you can't kill the world. There will be no consumer system to preserve. There will be no security in metals. You want to hearkin back to the constitution of our "founders?" Bush said it all when he proclaimed it "just a goddamned piece of paper." When the collapse happens I hope there are responsible people that take care of our precious historic items for the future, but the constitution will not save you from having to kill thousands of hungry humans. You ready for that? Unarmed people that just need to eat? Really? You think that would be a world worth living in? You think the people that love you will eat a hearty dinner knowing how many folks you had to kill to feed them? They chew you shoot?
You think you are the first to face this? Dr. Zhivago asked and discussed many of these same issues. Read it, at least watch the movie.
Better means we figure out how to get along as equals. It means we end the cycle of grow or die. It means we end hating other people and seeing them as a threat rather than as brothers or sisters, because the world can only support about one billion people in any natural way (at most) and that with far lower standards of living. As horrifying as it is (reflections of death camps in Germany) 6 billion of us cannot be here without giant advances in energy technology, yesterday.
We can perhaps let nature take it's course for most of us, but there is no way to get to the billion number without forced sterilizations. Sorry, just can't happen. Even a billion is questionable, to have a rural agrarian social structure with no modern technology we would probably at best get back to 20 years life expectancy (18 in Greece in the age of Alexander) and you can't just have some parts of modern technology within a rural agrarian social structure, the industrial age and everything we depend upon is in turn dependent upon markets of scale. We have to move forward, there is no way back. All technology is dependent upon all other technology and every bit of that is dependent upon markets of scale. Go forward, or live like goats what few of you remain.
from yesterday's letter:
If you study US financial conditions, you’ll see that mandatory entitlement programs like Social Security and Medicare soak up over 75% of all federal tax revenue collected. That’s before paying a penny in interest on the debt. The rest of the budget constitutes several trillion dollars in other expenses like genital-groping TSA ag
To call Social Security 'entitlement' is very sad since it shows that we do not know our history. Social Security is an obligation of the US government and I am certain that the writer knows this. It is a 'general obligation' for the simple reason that the US Congress refused to fund it many times, meanwhile using the funds as a slush fund to pay for wars and destruction all over the planet.
I would rather have had the cash than have paid into SS for forty years mainly because of the unfunded nature of the program for most of that time and a philosophical difference over the use of my money. However, that was never an option---not on anyone's menu----or interest
I am an ignorant guy, of course---just a working stiff for forty years---can barely write my name, but it cuts right through me to have your obligation to me and all of the other elders called an 'entitlement'. Please show a little more respect for those of us waiting to be paid what we are owed; we are not the problem---the Congressional refusal to fund along with war and 'defense' has always been the problem.
Now, I can return to reading this piece----needed to spit it out thanks for your time
Ponzi schemes always fail. ALL government welfare should end. I would include VA benefits even. You volunteer to go to war or join the military. The government is not the source of production. It is instead the source of all that is evil (with very few exceptions).
I doubt many join the armed forces thinking that. Most are coerced economically, and the rest join because they have been deceived by leaders raping words like `honour` and `duty`.
I agree that those who DO join for the `glory` of murdering comparatively unarmed brown people and destroying their livelihoods (evil) can go fuck themselves though, definitely, and the horses they rode in on.
Out of all of those options which benefits TPTB the most??
Whichever it is....that is far more likely than any of the others.
Deflation hurts TPTB....so I don't see that coming anytime soon.
I think the inflation game can be run a long ways yet. A long ways....
I think O is gone in 2012 and that things could get very interesting if the new white guy in charge starts the cutting at the bottom instead of the top...which is completely fucking predictable....regardless the party. TPTB will be the LAST to incur any costs. If it means a false flag war with Iran or China....so fucking what? It will be done.
That's exactly what's going to happen. No fan of Obama by any means, but people are being blinded by their hatred of him.
Please note this little zinger today:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110614/ts_yblog_theticket/obama-my-family-approves-of-a-one-term-presidency
Maybe Bammy got his walking papers already...
Coincides nicely with the Bilderberg conference...looks like a new cast of actors is being prepped in the wings.
Central California’s most powerful radio personality, KMJ’s Ray Appleton, said it was the most informative show he’s ever had. And here, yesterday, was the dramatic charge made by his guest:
The oligarchs, international bankers and their network of global insiders, are counting on the end of America.
It is they who are calling for the end of the U.S.A. They are accomplishing this end through the annihilation of the currency, shorting the country, using their interconnected economies to apply pressure.
In a 2-hour show, the guest, Dr. Joseph Penbera, said leaderless Americans have two choices to make within the next 18 months: watch the slow bleed-out of American life as their jobs go overseas and their communities decay, or awaken, pull together and face the music by enduring the immediate pain necessary to correct the economy and rebuild America by restoring confidence.
Penbera is professor of management primarily in the field of business strategy, and research/serve in the fields of corporate governance and finance at California State University, Fresno.
Don’t let the oligarchs have their day, Penbera warns. Let interest rates rise to freely float and compete with the rest of the world, limit the money supply to coincide in proper proportion to the demands of trade and industry, let banks bear the pain of their bad loans, decrease the government work force by 20 percent, pull the troops out of foreign wars and engagements, and force Congress to stop raiding the Social Security trust by transferring the funds to their general fund…
Among the consequence of losing the dollar as the reserve currency if the Fed and politicians continue on the same path of printing money to buy their own debt will not only be price controls of food, higher taxes, the continued asset stripping of the middle class and an all-out war ultimately leading to nuclear war, says Penbera, but the Mexican cartels will cross borders in increasing numbers with crime explosions difficult to contain.
Already, a record one in six Americans is on Medicaid, the government's health program for the poor - one of several government anti-poverty programs including food stamps that have seen large increases in caseloads and in costs.
Ever since China joined the World Trade Organization (WTO) in 2001, says Penbera, the U.S. has lost an average of 50,000 manufacturing jobs per month. That’s in tandem with the loss of 46,000 manufacturers in the past decade.
As the U.S. economy is increasingly merged into the emerging "one world economy" as the internationalists fulfill their dream of a truly “global marketplace” taking form under "outsourcing” and “offshoring” America, Trade Newswire reports: “According to the U.S. Commerce Department, U.S. multinational corporations added 2.4 million new jobs overseas during the first decade of this century. But during that same time frame U.S. multinational corporations cut a total of 2.9 million jobs inside the United States…
“Ten years ago, the U.S. economy was three times as large as the Chinese economy. At the turn of the century the United States accounted for well over 20 per cent of global GDP and China accounted for significantly less than 10 per cent of global GDP. But since that time our share of global GDP has been steadily declining and China’s share has been steadily rising…"
China believes it will replace the U.S. as world giant, says Penbera, but it will have no place to sell its goods. “Its empty factories will make our unemployment look like a tea party.”
As for the next shoe to drop says Penbera, it will be Italy.
The Jews did this before to Germany, but Germany had balls and would not go down without a fight, will the USA fight back the jewish attempt at annihilating it ?
just Google 'jews declare war on germany' and you'll know what I am talking about
funny that most of the top links that Google gives are BANNED by my ISP and I think most ISPs in Germany, huh funny!?!
You(I mean people in the USA) at least still have your 1st and 2nd Amendments USE THEM while you can!
one wonders how you were able to outswim/outmaneuver the other sperm. if you are living proof of the "survival of the fittest" theory pertaining to evolution, God has a warped sense of humor.
This nation is facing an incredible sovereignty problem and the influence of the Israeli Lobby and the proven existence of a financial cartel which has its hands on the levers of American political power is a legitimate subject for discussion at this time of crisis.
Hopefully, since you oppose Azannoth’s points, you can provide some constructive criticisms so a better approach to truth, i.e., solution, can be pursued.
It is amazing how few people know about this little part of one of the prime reasons there was a "holocaust". That some of the Jews in Germany who actually worked diligently to boycott German goods and did what they could to harm the German economy which assisted Hitler's rise to power, in the 30's. Milestones
digging up the ol' kkk revisionist guide to history i see...
Sorry, but those solutions are not going to cut it anymore. In the simplest terms possible, we are screwed. Cutting government spending by 20% isn't going to do a damned thing. The entire MIC needs to be shut down and ALL government welfare of ALL types need to END--not get cut. They need to end. Will that happen? Hells no and we know it won't.
Anyone that doesn't own a rifle had better buy one soon.
Misnomer me a 'socialismistite' but here's a solution: Shut down the intercontinental 'War of Terror' and bring all the "America: fuck yeah!" freedom fighters home. Draft a "GI Medicine Act" that will train any soldier capable to be an MD, or nurse, or candystriper (or physical therapist, surgeon... you get the idea). Take 1/4 of what's left of the MIC's yearly budget, around 250 billion, and pay the new Dr's to healthify the nation. Choke the remaining 750 billion right outta the budget and halve the defic...hang on; damnit, there's that black helicopter hovering outside my window again. I'll be right ba
JR, not that it means anything, but I will withhold support for any solution in which the federal government survives in anything but a rudimentary form. A 20% reduction is unacceptable. I would rather take my chances with the drug cartels.
I do not know why Penbera limited his decrease in the government work force to 20 percent. He recommended many more policies that I couldn’t catch, but he did say we're on this destructive Time Line that’s already in reality with QE2, wars, no safe place in the world and an end run that will be long and deep; he said that the Fed and politicians would continue to feed the people with the story that better times are a comin’, promising a DOW 20,000, etc. There’s been an extraordinary payoff to the media and government officials, he said, to play the official song.
If the U.S. is going to put this economic wreck back on track, he says interest rates must rise to 12 percent and beyond within the next 18 months or so, which would bring about an expected drop in the DOW to 7500 and a dollar devaluation at 75 percent of current value, among other things
Strong medicine, but the transfer of an economy to a police state is, for a nation, a terminal disease. Strong medicine, but alas, we're talking survival, which fits, I think, the rudimentary plateau acceptance level that you require. I agree.
And here I thought Central California's most powerful radio personality was Michael Savage. Silly me - I guess earning power or listenership don't equate to power or is your geography off?
this author watches too much local news
Lock & Load.....it's about to get dicey.
"I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."
It's gotta suck being overweight financials.
I've never once before been an alarmist, bought into any TEOTWAWKI fad/claim, or thought, even for a second, that things would collapse.
After much cool, calm and collected reflection, and more importantly, analysis of credible data over the last year, and simply based on plain artithmetic, the system is definitely imploding.
It's a situation that is inevitable based on 1) the inherent flaws contained within the fractional reserve banking model, 2) global consumption and production patterns, 3) the concentration of economic and political power within a corporate-banking-financial-industrial oligarchy that rules governments, and 4) the historical and firmly entrenched dispositions of humans in reaction to what they perceive to be intolerable levels of injustice (whether economic or political or both).
We will have a deflationary or inflationary collapse soon (or both, and by which order it is irrelevant) depending upon what the fractional reserve money changers do, after which time there will be a major restructing of the global economy and the very psyche of humans (in terms of how they view consumption, debt, wealth, the environment, sovereignty, being regulated and controlled by political bodies, and a myriad of other issues inherently interwoven into the 'human condition').
Bleak future ahead if the above is to be believed, and I don't see why it should not be accepted given the state of things. Yet congress just blathers on and on about the same old democrat vs republican rubbish. Truely amazing disconnect from reality. They just don't get it, or perhaps they are well paid to "not get it".
The obligations exceed the wealth generated, cannibalism is the result. Case in point: Social Security, in deep, deep surplus since it's founding, racking up hundreds upon hundreds of billions of surplus funds decade after decade. Along comes congress and the president during the 60's and begins to steal those funds to pay for war and great society programs. The old people's pension money was spent to make the US budget deficit smaller. Now when the olbligations come due and that surplus money is needed to fund the large boomer retirement, guess what?! Yep! That money was spent and replaced with IOU's that todays workers are obligated to pay. It was simple theft to hid the level of deficit spending. Otherwise known a fiscal cannibalism.
Jack Burton:
"That money was spent and replaced with IOU's that todays workers are obligated to pay. It was simple theft to hid the level of deficit spending. Otherwise known a fiscal cannibalism."
Today's workers are not obligated to pay for anything except their own obligation for the future. The US Government is obligated to pay and a general obligation needs no one's political approval to create taxes specifically for 'general obligations of the US Government. That is why the US is and has been better than a triple A credit risk; never a default because of the capacity to raise taxes to pay it's obligations. Nothing has changed except that we are a nation of wimps who will not work together, will not go into the streets, will not support each other, and so dumb that the younger members of our society are blaming the older rather than seeing it as a 'divide and conquer' strategy by the same wanna-be oliogarchs that we constantly whine about on this blog. This is not a battle between young and old, please.
I'm tired of it----we are too damned intelligent to be acting so stupid; when will we see the light!
thanks Jack
Ah, those baby boomer-demonizing youths! They were the ones, along with the hyphenated-voters, who elected Barack Obama, as I remember.
Young voters preferred Obama over John McCain by 68 percent to 30 percent — the highest share of the youth vote obtained by any candidate since exit polls began reporting results by age in 1976, according to CIRCLE, a non-partisan organization that promotes research on the political engagement of Americans between ages 15 and 25.
And now, Republican presidential consultants are out warning conservative candidates that the hyphenated-voter divide is going to widen in the future; therefore, Republicans must beat the Mexican bushes to garner more immigration support, never rmind that they vote overwhelmingly Democrat for the obvious reasons.
So here comes political consultant Mike Murphy again, having worked for a couple of dozen Republican candidates — including John McCain, Mitt Romney, Jeb Bush and Arnold Schwarzenegger — warning his party again, according to Creators.com, "that anti-immigrant rhetoric of the variety heard from — mostly losing — Republican candidates in 2008 and 2010 could doom the party of Abraham Lincoln and Reagan to permanent minority status."
Says Murphy, when Reagan won 56 percent of the nation's white vote against Carter, whites comprised 88 percent of the total national electorate. IOW, Reagan's 1980 share of the white vote alone constituted 49.3 percent of all voters. But by 2008 when Obama was elected, says Murphy, the white share of the national vote had fallen to 74 percent.
Can't Murphy interpret the handwriting on the wall? Any Republican still buying that message – 11 states already have introduced Arizona-style immigration bills - is too intellectually challenged to run for office, IMO. Oh, wait….http://www.creators.com/opinion/mark-shields/republicans-dangerous-game-...
Option 1 derailed the entire article. 'As long as govt can keep borrowing, they will'.
Theyre already out of suckers to borrow from.
wanna make a wager that youre wrong sheepdog?
Why borrow when you can create? If the goal is to bury our republic once and for all, who really gives a damn, right?
agree and there is still some light:
1st increase debt ceiling by 3 trillions and announce QE3
2nd tight budget
3rd cut all health care and pension entitlements for people below 50
4th bring all troops back from war
5th special ad-hoc courts for foreclosure process (to make people accountable for mortgage payments even when there is no signed mortgage agreement as long there is REAL evidence that they entered into a binding morgage agreement - to be determined by INDEPENTENT judges)
of course very radical suggestions...
And so another lame-ass, deeply captured puppet of the money masters will replace him.
Meet the new puppet....same as the old puppet.
I approve as well.
tomatoes fine still waiting for my spuds
How is your weather? I am not getting any hot weather plants to grow. It has been too cold. Maybe monsantoe can sell me some special seeds to deal with the new weather patterns.
"Option 4: Default
Eventually, the debt burden is simply going to be too much, and the most obvious solution will be to default. Politicians will make China out to be the enemy and they will probably invent a war just to have an excuse to default on Chinese owned debt. Americans will wave the flag and celebrate defaulting on their enemies."
moral hazard bichez....
The next world war initiated by the West will be waged against China, Russia, India and Pakistan. These nations are only some of the more powerful opponents, and the US Navy will suffer grave losses in the incipient stages. It will quickly result in non-conventional weapons being used, and this will escalate to global thermonuclear war.
The elites will be hiding in their bunkers, but they won't be able to poke their heads out of the ground for hundreds of years.
It's already beginning to heat up with increasingly strained diplomatic relations between Washington and Moscow. The Black Sea has historically been considered disputed Soviet/Russian waters. This latest gambit by Washington with the Aegis-class warship being deployed to the Black Sea for naval exercises with Ukraine seems to be adding much fuel to the fire.
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/MF14Ak02.html
Black sea deployment is optimal for intercepting ballistic trajectories sourced in Iran and ending in Europe.
Serotonin - Where are you getting that from? All four? Each one hates the other or is scared to death of them. Do they all hate us that much more that they'd unite? Unlikely. One, maybe. Then again, maybe they'll all just watch and laugh as we fall apart at the seams. Except Pak. They're dead man walking.
1st there has to be a genuine "trigger mechanism" to rapidly unwind all this, sorta like Yosemite Sam tunneling into the dynamite shack in the old Bugs Bunny cartoons. The ordinance was already there accumulating, Sam invariably lights a torch to see where he is, and ka-boom.
From a pure survival standpoint, self-sufficient people in rural areas will do well, plus they're usually heavily armed and know the business-end of that implement. Moreover, the real 'hidden negative' as a calamitous trigger-mechanism is not a bunch of fuckhead traders, or Eurocrats, but the weather itself, and not some 'global warming' foolishness...but just the opposite.
I do not see another war coming. The reason is because a bankrupt power cannot fund another war,and if they try to bring the draft back they will need a damn good excuse. A draft will not fly into today's America. There will riots in the streets. Also another problem with a draft is when thos veteran come back. All those gangbangers come back with combat expereince and will use it in the streets. A police state is also not viable as well. Law enforcement in the federal,state and local level are only 883,000. They are heavily undermanned. When the shtf they will not be coming to take your guns. They will be at home protecting their families. Look at Katrina. About 60% of the NOPD were not at theri jobs. So imagine this happening nation wide.
If there is a major crisis that sends the entire country into chaos, it would highly unlikely that the U.S. military will be able to enforce a lock-down of the entire nation.Even if the military manages to acquire all 1.5 million reserves and utilize 1 million of it's total 1.5 million personnel in the Navy, Army, Marines, Air Force and Coast Guard, it would struggle to control 308-310 million citizens in a land mass of 9,161,966 sq km. Most of these agents will be working logistics and support for handling prisoners, transportation, intelligence and supply. There is too much land,too many people and too many guns for the feds control.
America will more likely face a Yugoslavia collapse rather a Sovet collapse. When we bring our troops home from foreign bases because we cannot afford it this will create tension and a military fracturing. America today is what Yugoslavia was in the 70s. Sooner or later we will have a violent collapse.
This article by Dmitri Orlov tells a better picture of what a collapse in the US look like.
http://www.energybulletin.net/node/23259
Although I agree that war is expensive and impossible to wage, by old traditional standards, when a nation or empire are broke, that fact does not apply when the power(s) have nuclear weapons.
We may have war, but it will not be conventional. The shelters of the 50's do not exist, shelters for the community may exist but were always deathtraps anyway, and us "little people" are not welcome in the current shelters, which are only built for the elite.
A nuclear false flag is still my best guess before this economic mess settles.
The end of another empire.
Will a friendly AI be a " benevolent dictator"?
It depends on the morality, motivations and goals of the geeks who are building the base for the AI that rule the machines.
"WAR? Did I hear someone mention WAR? With whom? China of course - those commy bastards!..."
Of course China will be blamed for the world's financial mess even though there will be absolutely no evidence to support that. (umm...kind of like blaming everyone BUT the FED for creating the real financial meltdown). Meanwhile the Rothchilds will be safely sequestered away in their bunkers of gold...
china lol... more like all the half negros or better, hell the US is a globalist power we practically make their money... nope, where ever the bombs land there soon shall follow the Marines
Those who are productive and mobile are in the "sweet spot" and those who are deeply rooted with dependents in a singular domain are phucked.
When will the Feds limit mobility? There will ALWAYS be work and money to be made. It just won't be where you want it to be.
The theme from the Gold Rush still rings true today. GO WEST BABY! West of California.
Go West.
"What Are The Social Implications Of Economic Collapse?"
What collapse? Markets are smoking.. Keep hiding under
the rocks, doomsters.. Nice day today! So much for double
deep BS.. Yeah, baby.. Pessimists go take your Prozac..
Brainwashing to assume we cannot tax to pay our way of life for all rather than a few.
Our major problem is concentration of power and wealth. And it is world wide.
"It was the best of times and it was the worst of times."
We all know how peaceful negroes will become when things really fall apart. Arm yourselves and be ready to shoot them on sight!
Thank you Tyler for mentioning this very important subject. As you know, most people are totally unaware that in a few short months the world they know will no longer exist.
If you Google "Abandon Ship Abandon Ship", several articles published on Gold Eagle will show up that apply to this discussion. One of them, "Predicting Date of Economic Collapse" was the most read article on Gold Eagle in 2010.
Chaos will prevail initially in the cities, however the end of the chaos is also a predictable event. The end of the financial chaos will be for the same reason that it ended in one day in Germany on November 15, 1923. On that day, a new currency was issued that allowed the old mark to be converted to the new gold Renton mark. The conversion was one billion old marks to purchase one new gold Renton mark. That day most of the printing presses were put out of business. People began going back to work.
Thinking about scenarios like this is just crazy. Of course it will not happen like people assume it will, it just never does.
It's all quite depressing, to be sure. How can a great nation such as ours become so freaking jacked up?
If indeed there is anarchy on the streets, some folks are gonna die. All the Wall Street and Congressional Reps. better hide in the underground caverns because they are public enemy number 1
Better to think, learn and train before you have to invent it at gunpoint.
So...is anybody here really interested in DOING something to prepare for the collapse to come? Sure, it's probably a long shot...but it beats the heck out of sitting around waiting for the knock on the door...
www.southernnationalcongress.org
Move out of the US NOW! nd take your money with you. Then get another citizenship. The US believes no matter where you live you still owe them on anything you earn.
Already ahead of you on that option.
Such "Native Americans" should immigrate to Siberia,
to feel the difference.. US the best Country in the World
still, don't like it? Opt-out, nobody holding you here.
Nationalism is clouding your judgement. Spend over half of the last decade in a number of foreign countries, and it becomes pretty apparent that "the USA is the best" is a nothing but an illusion.
But you are right the US is still best in a lot of areas: best police state, best waste of tax dollars, best government debt, best bankers, best GMO foods, best military-industrial complex, the list goes on and on!!
This isn't about nationalism. It is about liberty. I love no nation named The United States of America. My country is what I love, and my country USED to represent liberty. My loyalty is to liberty. Yours, apparently, is to yourself.
If your loyalty is to liberty you should leave as well and live somewhere where it still has a chance to survive. American crossed the Rubicon long ago and there is no going back.
The love of liberty is so strong in the US that the US citizens started their nation by maintaining slavery.