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Guest Post: Will 2012 Be As Critical As 1860?
Submitted by Jim Quinn of The Burning Platform
Will 2012 Be As Critical As 1860?
“We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though
passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The
mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they
will be, by the better angels of our nature.” – Abraham Lincoln
We are approximately five years into The Fourth Turning Crisis.
Every previous Fourth Turning had an economic dimension that eventually
led to a do or die all out war. The mainstream linear thinkers see a
recovery and a return to their concept of normality. They will be
shocked and flabbergasted when they realize that this is only the
beginning of a 20 year period of turmoil, chaos and war. It seems that
some study of history would benefit the mainstream talking media heads
pretending to know what is happening and political hacks in Washington
D.C. who pretend to administer the affairs of state. The cycles of
history are not identical, but the alignment of generations is always
the same. The cycles are consistent because a long human life is always
between 80 and 100 years. The previous Fourth Turnings in U.S. history
were the American Revolution, the Civil War and the Great
Depression/World War II. The descriptions are as follows:
American Revolution (Fourth Turning, 1773-1794)
began when Parliament’s response to the Boston Tea Party ignited a
colonial tinderbox—leading directly to the first Continental Congress,
the battle of Concord, and the Declaration of Independence. The war
climaxed with the colonial triumph at Yorktown (in 1781). Seven years
later, the new “states” ratified a nation-forging Constitution. The
crisis mood eased once President Washington weathered the Jacobins, put
down the Whiskey Rebels, and settled on a final treaty with England.
The Civil War (Fourth Turning, 1860-1865)
began with a presidential election that many southerners interpreted as
an invitation to secede. The attack on Fort Sumter triggered the most
violent conflict ever fought on New World soil. The war reached its
climax in the Emancipation Proclamation and Battle of Gettysburg (in
1863). Two years later, the Confederacy was beaten into bloody
submission and Lincoln was assassinated–a grim end to a crusade many had
hoped would “trample out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are
stored.”
The Great Depression & World War II (Fourth Turning, 1929-1946)
began suddenly with the Black Tuesday stock-market crash. After a
three-year economic free fall, the Great Depression triggered the New
Deal revolution, a vast expansion of government, and hopes for a renewal
of national community. After Pearl Harbor, America planned, mobilized,
and produced for war on a scale that made possible the massive D-Day
invasion (in 1944). Two years later, the crisis mood eased with
America’s surprisingly trouble-free demobilization.
There is a consistent tempo to all Fourth Turnings. An event or
series of events leads to the initial Crisis. As the Fourth Turning
progresses it becomes more intense, chaotic, dire and bloody. It
eventually exhausts itself as a victor is left in control of the
battlefield. Picture George Washington at Yorktown, Ulysses S. Grant at
Appomattox, and Douglass McArthur on the Battleship Missouri. The events
during a Fourth Turning will always be different. The consistent aspect
of all Fourth Turnings is the mood of the country, the same
generational dynamics, and the reactions of the generations to events. Strauss & Howe describe this Crisis period as follows:
“The spirit of America comes once a
saeculum, only through what the ancients called ekpyrosis, nature’s
fiery moment of death and discontinuity. History’s periodic eras of
Crisis combust the old social order and give birth to a new. A Fourth
Turning is a solstice era of maximum darkness, in which the supply of
social order is still falling but the demand for order is now rising.”
The turnings of history are like the seasons. It is impossible to go
directly from Fall to Spring. You must withstand the bitter harshness of
Winter in order to get to the revitalizing warmth of Spring. The
intensity and depth of Winters will vary. Those who prepare for a
potentially harsh Winter in advance will be more likely to survive. The
morphology of Fourth Turnings as described by Strauss & Howe is:
- A Crisis era begins with a catalyst – a startling event (or sequence of events) that produces a sudden shift in mood.
- Once catalyzed, a society achieves regeneracy – a new counterentropy that reunifies and reenergizes civic life.
- The regenerated society propels toward a climax – a crucial moment
that confirms the death of the old order and birth of the new. - The climax culminates in a resolution – a triumphant or tragic
conclusion that separates the winners from losers, resolves the big
public questions, and establishes the new order.
An honest assessment of where we sit in this cycle shows that we are
still in stage one. The housing collapse brought about the near
destruction of the worldwide financial system. The sudden shift in mood
has been borne out by the angry rise of the Tea Party and the startling
result from the recent election. Society is on the verge of stage two.
There has yet to be the reunification and reenergizing of society. It
still feels like things are falling apart. The sun is slowly setting on
this stage and a dark brutal Winter night beckons.
1860 Election – Spark that Ignited an Epic Conflagration
Turnings throughout history have consistently lasted between 15 and
25 years, except one. The Civil War Crisis Turning lasted only 5 years
and seems to not fit the standard definition of a Turning. Strauss & Howe reflected that:
“By the usual pattern of history, the
Civil War Crisis catalyst occurred four or five years ahead of schedule
and its resolution nearly a generation too soon.”
The truth is that instead of a drawn out Crisis over 15 to 20 years
that would have had undulations of pain and suffering, the U.S.
experienced the most savage 5 years in our history, with 620,000
Americans killed and 400,000 wounded. Ten percent of all Northern males
20–45 years of age died, as did 30 percent of all Southern white males
aged 18–40. Strauss and Howe conclude that there are two lessons from
the Civil War Crisis:
- The Fourth Turning morphology admits to acceleration.
- That acceleration can add to the tragedy of the outcome.
The catalyst for the Crisis was the election of Abraham Lincoln as
President of the United States. After the Compromise of 1850, who would
have envisioned the election of an unknown Congressman from an
abolitionist party that didn’t even exist in 1850. Beyond that, could
anyone have predicted the carnage from the bloodiest war in the history
of mankind being the result of that election? Many people do not know
that there were four candidates for President in 1860 and that Lincoln
won the election with only 39.8% of the popular vote. Lincoln won the
Presidency and he wasn’t even on the ballot in Alabama, Arkansas,
Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, Tennessee, or
Texas.
The Republican Party realized they had a tremendous opportunity to
win the Presidency as the Democrats were in disarray. Since it was
essential to carry the West, and because Lincoln had a national
reputation from his debates and speeches as the most articulate
moderate, he won the party’s nomination on the third ballot on May 18,
1860. The Republican platform stated that slavery would not be allowed
to spread any further, and it also promised that tariffs protecting
industry would be imposed, a Homestead Act granting free farmland in the
West to settlers, and the funding of a transcontinental railroad. All
of these provisions were highly unpopular in the South.
The Democratic Party split into two factions due to the issue of
slavery. Stephen A. Douglass became the Northern Democrat candidate. He
was a moderate on the slavery issue. John C. Breckinridge was selected
by the Fireaters from the Deep South. Breckinridge supported extending
slavery into territories whose voters did not want it. A fourth party
called the Constitutional Union Party made up of die-hard former
Southern Whigs and Know Nothings who felt they could support neither
the Democratic Party nor the Republican Party was formed. They nominated
John Bell of Tennessee for President. The party platform advocated
compromise to save the Union, with the slogan “the Union as it is, and
the Constitution as it is.”
The voter turnout rate in 1860 was the second-highest on record
(81.2%, second only to 1876, with 81.8%). The voter turnout in 2008 of
56.8% was the highest for a Presidential election since 1968.
Nominee: Abraham Lincoln Nominee: John C. Breckinridge
Party: Republican Party: Southern Democrat
% of Vote: 39.8% % of Vote: 18.1%
Electoral Votes: 180 Electoral Votes: 72
Nominee: John Bell Nominee: Stephen A. Douglass
Party: Constitutional Union Party: Northern Democrat
% of Vote: 12.6% % of Vote: 29.5%
Electoral Votes: 39 Electoral Votes: 12
As the 1850s progressed the firebrands in the North and South became
more entrenched in their dogmatic positions. The Transcendental
Generation Prophets came to power and compromise was no longer an
option. Both Lincoln and Jefferson Davis were from this Prophet
generation. Aging Prophets are always the moralistic drivers of Fourth
Turnings. Strauss & Howe stress the importance of the Prophet Generation during a Fourth Turning:
A Crisis catalyst occurs shortly
after the old Prophet archetype reaches its apex of societal leadership,
when its inclinations are least checked by others. A regeneracy comes
as the Prophet abandons any idea of deferral or retreat and binds the
society to a Crisis course. A climax occurs when the Prophet expends its
last burst of passion, just before descending rapidly from power.
The election of Abraham Lincoln proved to be the catalyst for the
Crisis. Seven southern states seceded from the Union before Lincoln took
office. The attack on Fort Sumter started a spiral of carnage and
butchery that could not be reversed. The Crisis reached regeneracy after
the Union debacle during the First Battle of Bull Run. Lincoln realized
winning this war would require full mobilization and all out war. He
ordered the enlistment of 500,000 soldiers, suspension of habeas corpus,
taxation, and expansion of government power. The next four years were a
swirl of savagery and unprecedented tragedy. It convulsed to a chaotic
conclusion with the surrender at Appomattox and assassination of Lincoln
in the same week. The Crisis exhausted itself with the climax seeming
more like a defeat than a victory.
Are the actions of politicians 150 years ago worth understanding in
order to determine how our current Crisis will develop? Since every
Crisis period has the exact same generational configuration and
generations react to events in similar manner, I believe it is
worthwhile to examine the Civil War dynamics. Historian Gordon Leidner’s
conclusions about the Civil War period are revealing:
- Although the majority of the American people– including many
moderate politicians like Abraham Lincoln–wanted to avoid Civil War and
were content to allow slavery to die a slow, inevitable death, the most
influential political leaders of the day were not. - On the southern side, “fire-eaters” like Robert Rhett and
William Yancey were willing to make war to guarantee the propagation of
their “right” to own slaves. - On the northern side, abolitionists like John Brown and Henry
Ward Beecher of Connecticut were willing to make war in order to put an
immediate end to the institution of slavery. - Southern politicians convinced their majority that the North was
threatening their way of life and their culture. Northern politicians
convinced their majority that the South, if allowed to secede, was
really striking a serious blow at democratic government. In these
arguments, both southern and northern politicians were speaking the
truth–but not “the whole truth.” - It was also about the constitutional argument over whether or
not a state had a right to leave the Union, and–of primary concern to
most southern soldiers–the continuation of antebellum southern culture.
Although the majority of Southerners had little interest in slaves,
slavery was a primary interest of Southern politicians–and consequently
the underlying cause of the South’s desire to seek independence and
state rights.
The insights gained from the Civil War Crisis are that compromise and
moderation are discarded. The firebrands control the field. The
Prophets push for an all out war to settle the pressing issues of the
day. They are willing to sacrifice the young in their moralistic fervor
to satisfy their vision of the future. The final verdict will depend on
the strength, judgment, and wisdom of the Prophet leaders during a
Crisis.
2012 Election – Crisis Leader Sets Stage for Dark Days Ahead
Nomad (Gen X) Prophet (Boomer) Prophet (Boomer)
Prophet (Boomer) Nomad (Gen X) Prophet (Boomer)
Artist (Silent)
By 2012 we will have reached the 7th year of this Crisis. The linear
thinking media and supposed “thought leaders” are convinced that the
worst days of this Crisis have passed. They believe that the Federal
Reserve and Government leaders have taken the proper actions to avert a
Great Depression. They will be shocked when the Crisis deepens and gets
far worse than today. Every action taken by our leaders since 2005 has
worsened the Crisis. Rather than letting the culprits of the financial
crisis fail, they have propped up these criminal institutions with
taxpayer funds. By not accepting the pain early in this Crisis, these
leaders have ensured that this Crisis will be more tragic, brutal and
wrenching. The mood of the country continues to darken, even as the
mainstream media and government cheerleaders falsely insist that things
are getting better.
By year 7 of the American Revolution Crisis, George Washington was on
the verge of defeating the British at Yorktown and bringing that Crisis
to a positive conclusion. The Civil War Crisis had concluded with Union
victory by year 5. The Great Depression/WWII Crisis was in a lull
period, with GDP growing by 13% in 1936 as government spending and
personal consumption surged. The economy gave the appearance of recovery
because FDR’s New Deal programs created make work schemes using
government funds. Americans know the 1930s as the Great Depression. As
proof of how meaningless GDP calculations are versus how real Americans
are affected, the GDP increased by 63% in the four year period between
1934 and 1937. Despite this phenomenal growth, the unemployment rate
remained at 17%. In comparison, GDP has advanced by only 5.1% from the
bottom in the 2nd quarter of 2009 until today and the unemployment rate
on a comparable basis is 23%. Franklin Delano Roosevelt won the 1936
election over Alfred Landon in one of the greatest landslides in
history, with 523 electoral votes to Landon’s 8.
The current Crisis appears to be in a lull similar to the 1930s.
Government actions can mask deeper problems for awhile, but pressure
continue to build. The problems did not go away. The bad debts did not
disappear. The Wall Street criminals are still free to loot the American
middle class. No one has been prosecuted for the greatest financial
fraud in history. The National Debt continues to balloon by $4 billion
per day. The USD is slowly being replaced as the worldwide reserve
currency. Political ideologues have taken control of both parties.
Worldwide trade tensions and social contract broken promises are leading
to riots and chaos across the Europe. The onset of peak cheap oil is
raising prices for fuel and food and setting the stage for coming
resource wars. Fundamentalist religious leaders are pushing for a
religious war between Christianity and Islam. The extremists are gaining
control of the agenda.
The sudden shift in mood has occurred. The hard working middle class
of this country are frustrated, angry and feel betrayed by their
leaders. The American people are fed up with all politicians. The
liberal ideologues and conservative ideologues have staked out immovable
positions on social, financial, and foreign trade issues. Compromise is
as likely as it was in 1860. The Tea Party will not compromise. Their
agenda is to change politics in Washington DC. They will be a thorn in
both party’s side. The possibility of the Tea Party becoming a 3rd party
is quite possible. This brings us to the 2012 Presidential election.
The current configuration of Congress guarantees that absolutely nothing
will get done in the next two years. Both parties will ignore the
looming disaster of debt, devaluation, and depression as they position
themselves for the 2012 election. The Crisis has not yet entered the
regeneracy stage. This is the stage where the country unifies behind a
leader and deals with the sudden threats that previously have been
ignored or deferred, but which are now perceived as dire. The likely
threats are the National Debt, a currency collapse, the Christian/Muslim
conflict, Peak Oil, the rise of China, or more likely a combination of
some of these issues.
Strauss & Howe‘s words regarding the approaching Crisis, written in 1997, are eerie and haunting:
“In retrospect, the spark might seem
as ominous as a financial crash, as ordinary as a national election, or
as trivial as a Tea Party. The catalyst will unfold according to a basic
Crisis dynamic that underlies all of these scenarios: An initial spark
will trigger a chain reaction of unyielding responses and further
emergencies. The core elements of these scenarios (debt, civic decay,
global disorder) will matter more than the details, which the catalyst
will juxtapose and connect in some unknowable way. If foreign societies
are also entering a Fourth Turning, this could accelerate the chain
reaction. At home and abroad, these events will reflect the tearing of
the civic fabric at points of extreme vulnerability – problem areas
where America will have neglected, denied, or delayed needed action.”
As I try to assess the next phase of this Crisis, I have been seeking
guidance from previous Fourth Turnings. At this juncture, the Crisis
seems to have aspects of the Great Depression/World War II and Civil War
Fourth Turnings. A financial crisis morphed into recession, much like
the 1929 Crash and subsequent recession. Like the Great Depression,
government borrowing and spending has given the false hope of recovery.
The difference is that government actions have failed to generate a
strong rebound in GDP and unemployment continues to ratchet higher. A
landslide election victory by Barack Obama in 2012 is not only
impossible; he may not even be the Democratic nominee. The 2012
Presidential election is already destined to be a defining moment in our
country’s history. The future path, intensity and pain of this Crisis
will be greatly impacted by the outcome of this election. The darkening
skies of Crisis are likely to become more threatening by 2012.
A recent Gallup poll gives an early indication of the likely
Republican nominee in 2012. The front runners (Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin)
have remained static, while the firebrands (Newt Gingrich, Mike
Huckabee) have gained ground. The move towards a moralistic Prophet
summoner of human sacrifice is not a surprise. The financial and world
events that lead up to the 2012 election will determine which candidate
is selected from the Republican field. The firebrands are likely to push
to resolve ever-deepening moral choices through military force.
Usually an incumbent President can be sure of re-nomination as the
Democratic candidate, but Obama’s popularity is so low and his
effectiveness as President has been so wanting that a challenge from
Hillary Clinton is a distinct possibility. Clinton has the Prophet
persona and would command the respect of Americans looking for foreign
relations expertise. A failed challenge to Obama’s nomination would
likely weaken Obama and allow the Republican candidate an easy victory. A
potential wildcard would be an insurgent independent campaign by
billionaire Michael Bloomberg. His financial background and moderate
positions on social issues could attract moderate Republican and
Democratic voters. Another possibility is that the Tea Party is unable
to assimilate within the Republican Party and decides to nominate its
own candidate. This could lead to an 1860 like situation, with four
candidates vying for the Presidency. The victor in this scenario might
need to be selected by the Electoral College. The next President
could be elected with less than 40% of the popular vote. Could this
election result lead to secession movement? Will large segments of the
population not accept the election verdict?
Will America Survive this Fourth Turning?
We are poised on the brink of the regeneracy phase of this Fourth
Turning. The open question is what incident or events will lead to
Americans rallying around a Prophet leader. Regeneracy during the
American Revolution occurred in 1776 with the Declaration of
Independence. It occurred during the Civil War when Lincoln demanded
full mobilization and total war after the Battle of Bull Run. The
election of FDR in 1932 produced a regeneracy based upon his New Deal
policies. The issues confronting our nation appear intractable. The
government “solutions” to the initial phase of this Crisis have been to
paper over bad debts, prop up insolvent financial institutions, defer
hard entitlement choices, debase the currency in an effort to alleviate
overwhelming levels of government debt, ignore the imminent implications
of cheap peak oil, and waging never ending lifeblood draining wars
on terror. Ben Bernanke, a self described “expert” on the Great
Depression, and his Federal Reserve, which has inflated away 96% of the
USD purchasing power since 1913, will be the likely culprit in the next
phase of this Crisis. Countries around the world are scrambling to
reduce their exposure to the USD. Ben Bernanke has proven unable
to comprehend the most basic economic signals (housing collapse,
derivatives, Wall Street fraud). He will be blindsided by the sudden
collapse of the US currency.
It is likely that phase two of this financial Crisis will lead to the
election of a dogmatic Republican Prophet Boomer in 2012. This person
will take office in January, 2013, eight years into this Fourth Turning.
They will be faced with the realization that peak cheap oil is a fact,
as even the linearist thinkers realize that technology and green energy
will not provide the bumper sticker solution for our oil dependent
society. The devastating combination of a currency collapse, oil supply
shortages, and the draining war on terror will either unify the country
behind the Prophet leader in their effort to save the country or it
could result in the country’s fabric tearing apart with the Federal
government losing control of sections of the country. A World War over
dwindling natural resources is easily foreseeable. The actual denouement
of events remain a mystery. Much will depend on the leader we choose.
Much will depend on the strength, fortitude, and sacrifice of the
American people.
Strauss & Howe provide four possible outcomes to our current Crisis:
-
This Fourth Turning could mark the
end of man. It could be an omnicidal Armageddon, destroying everything,
leaving nothing. If mankind ever extinguishes itself, this will probably
happen when its dominant civilization triggers a Fourth Turning that
ends horribly. For this Fourth Turning to put an end to all this would
require an extremely unlikely blend of social disaster, human
malevolence, technological perfection and bad luck. -
The Fourth Turning could mark the
end of modernity. The Western saecular rythm – which began in the
mid-fifteenth century with the Renaissance – could come to an abrupt
terminus. The seventh modern saeculum would be the last. This too could
come from total war, terrible but not final. There could be a complete
collapse of science, culture, politics, and society. Such a dire result
would probably happen only when a dominant nation (like today’s America)
lets a Fourth Turning ekpyrosis engulf the planet. But this outcome is
well within the reach of foreseeable technology and malevolence. -
The Fourth Turning could spare
modernity but mark the end of our nation. It could close the book on the
political constitution, popular culture, and moral standing that the
word America has come to signify. The nation has
endured for three saecula; Rome lasted twelve, the Soviet Union only
one. Fourth Turnings are critical thresholds for national survival. Each
of the last three American Crises produced moments of extreme danger:
In the Revolution, the very birth of the republic hung by a thread in
more than one battle. In the Civil War, the union barely survived a
four-year slaughter that in its own time was regarded as the most lethal
war in history. In World War II, the nation destroyed an enemy of
democracy that for a time was winning; had the enemy won, America might
have itself been destroyed. In all likelihood, the next Crisis will
present the nation with a threat and a consequence on a similar scale. -
Or the Fourth Turning could simply
mark the end of the Millennial Saeculum. Mankind, modernity, and America
would all persevere. Afterward, there would be a new mood, a new High,
and a new saeculum. America would be reborn. But, reborn, it would not
be the same.
The Fourth Turning is not a prophecy of doom. It is not some sort of Nostradamus like prediction of what will happen on a certain date. The Fourth Turning is
part of a cycle of history tied to a long human life that has
happened before and hopefully will happen again. Our trials await. Will
America respond with strength of character, wise choices, and a
willingness to sacrifice for future unborn generations? It is time to
find out.
For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
a time to plant, and a time to pluck up what is planted;
A time to kill, and a time to heal;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
a time to break down, and a time to build up;
A time to weep, and a time to laugh;
a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
A time to throw away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
A time to seek, and a time to lose;
a time to keep, and a time to throw away;
A time to tear, and a time to sew;
a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
A time to love, and a time to hate;
a time for war, and a time for peace.
Ecclesiastes 3: 1-8
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I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
-Thomas Jefferson
Pull your money out of banks and into PAYPAL, they are categorized not as a bank and are a payment processor and do not engage in fractional reserve lending.
http://ecorner.stanford.edu/authorMaterialInfo.html?mid=1036
Use the same money to buy an ounce of silver.
The revolution begins now.
http://unconstitutional.blogspot.com
Hell, it only took one full generation to let the Federal Reserve form and grow in power to the point where it blatently prints fiat currency. not many people alive today ever lived in a world without the Federal Reserve abomination.
The paypal idea is just silly. You cannot build a stable currency on arrogant narrow minded commercial businesses with a past history (and every intention to continue) screwing users at every point possible. And they're in bed with the US Govt beyond belief. Currency should not be controlled by government political interests, but paypal is...
PayPal is an ebay corporation. It is not a bank.
It's better than the alternative.
By leaving your money at a TBTF bank you:
1. Risk having it evaporate in a bank run.
2. Give it more ammunition to corrupt legislators
3. Let the money be loaned out via the money multiplier, furthering the ponzi scheme.
Putting it into PayPal is a viable, feasible alternative because you can actually use the money you take out.
Paypal parks money in the Money Market Fund which provides short term liquidity to the Shadow Banking System, ie. TBTF short term liquidity.
You have to sign up for that feature.
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_upgrade-interest-marcom&outside
As long as they use hexadecimals, I see huge counter party risk. I'll stick with barbarous relics and a simplified lifestyle.
Where does PayPal hold the money? Do they deposit the funds received into a bank? If it is in fact held in money markets there is no FDIC insurance right?
Paypal is not a good alternative. It matters where they put your money. If they put it in place where it ultimately can be used for reserves. Plus, Paypal is in bed with .GOV.
Put your cash in a local credit union. It is still exposed to fractional reserve lending, but this is limited to 25% cap reserve ratio. Also the dilution will more likely be spread locally, thus benefiting your community versus Wall Street.
Calling the Fed an abomination is far too charitable. A dishonorable, deceitful, malicious white trash rats' nest of iniquitous foreign intruders, and venal, ignorant, unaccomplished domestic traitors is more like it.
Down with bloody big Fed I say.
That's a good start. Trust me, i could go for hours.
Idk about PayPal after they snubbed Wikileaks i am keeping my money elswhere
They are the only "full-reserve bank" that we can feasibly use to start something revolutionary. Electronic cash is a necessity of modern life. You can get a paypal debit card that gives you instant access to your paypal funds.
lol: full reserve of what?
Of dollars or whatever currency you deposit. They do not loan out the money which is the sticking point.
You really think they store all that FIAT paper in a safe somewhere? I think it's just numbers on a ledger.
You think you can get the paper out of them if they go bankrupt, or when the FRS decides that PayPal computer numbers aren't money?
They are notorious for freezing payments and accounts, they charge large fees. Where is the upside?
All fiat currencies are just numbers on a ledger but they still follow monetary theory.
By design they can't go bankrupt because they charge per transaction. The only way they'd go bankrupt is if people stopped using Ebay and Paypal.
They only freeze accounts if you piss off enough customers (like by not shipping orders on ebay). Just use it like your normal bank account that you use to pay bills, etc. They charge fees for receiving payments from other people. If you are using it like a bank account to pay for goods then you won't have fees.
The upside is that for now, they are the only option for those who need to pay electronically and do not want their dollars to be a part of fractional-reserve lending.
Ledger numbers are controlled by the ledger holder. Paper notes are controlled by the bearer. Not the same thing.
They can go bankrupt, just like any corporation. Through poor management, lack of business, rising costs, unexpected events, etc.
They freeze accounts when you do something they don't like. Whether you're being legal or not doesn't matter. The control of your money is in the hands of a very small group of people, and you're not in that group!
I think "this is the only option" is a bit of a generalisation. Storing cash in a safe or deposit box is very simple. For actively transacting, could pick a local credit union or something to reduce the FRN leverage on the small amount of money that you actually need to actively use.
you sir are a either a troll or a bonified F***ing Idiot.
http://www.paypalscam.com/
It's well documented that PayPal has been scamming people for years.
You are so so so clueless! I will keep my user owned credit union. Full service with the safety of being small with oversight! You are to weird, paypal, you government tool you!
PayPal? Seriously? This is the dumbest idea I have ever heard. They have screwed over customers every step of the way and they are on the decline, tied hand to hand with eBay. You are better off putting money into credit unions than anything else.
How much $$$ do you have in Paypal stock or other equity? Curious. Milestones
+1 The Wikileaks debacle was the last straw for me. I cancelled my account yesterday.
It is quite the dillema isn't it?
I think that a fair financial system is far more important than free speech issues. There can always be a wikileaks or some variant of it. That is the beauty of the internet.
There isn't a single war that has been fought without banks in the background.
A war is not won because of the amount of soldiers you have, but by the amount of gold and silver you have in your war-chest.
It is won by dedication and tenacity to your cause. Guerilla warfare also helps against a technologically superior enemy.
See Vietnam and Afghanistan.
"Dedication and tenacity to your cause?" Those words are for children.
Please read some history. A suggestion would be Nesta Webster's French Revolution.
Adam Weisshaupt is familiar to you?
The name Rothschild is large in your recollection of history?
The real name of Abraham Lincoln (Springsteen) changed because S would label him as a Rothschiuld scion.
What American Banks and Corporations bankrolled and provided for Lenin, Trotsky, and Stalin and later Hilter?
Everyone starts somewhere in their education, its is no big deal to say "I don't know" but it is a big deal to say "I do want to know."
Do you think that Washington could convince his troops to cross the Deleware on Christmas Eve if they thought like that? To fight against the HIRED German goons?
What about the Viet Cong during Tet?
How about the 2010 being the most violent year against coalition troops than all other years in the War on Afghanistan COMBINED?
The Viet Cong where fully funded by the russians and the Chinese.
How did you think they got all that stuff that passed the Ho Chi Ming route 24/7 during the entire war?
They didn't pay it with clamps I can tell you that.
It was a battle against the communists, just like Korea.
you got it mad hatter: the goons under-estimate power of "fanatics" (which is to say the "fuckees"). let's hope that pattern continues....
The Viet Cong lost the Tet Offensive. Big time. They were all but annihilated by that debacle. The American media, however, reported it as a loss for the US military and used it to sap domestic resolve for supporting the war.
Abraham Lincoln was related to "The Boss"?
I'll be damned....didn't know that.
yea, and Ho Chi Minh?
real name: Howard Chisowitz Minstein.....
hand to god
Lincoln = Springsteen? Please. You're basing this on that anonymous piece of crap on Stormfront? Might give Bruce a buzz, but doesnt cut it with me.
The Walker-Bush family ran (high level functionaires) Union Bank and financed the Nazi Party along with about eight other US Banks. After Pearl Harbor the other banks were smart enough to end their affairs with The Third Reich. Union Bank continued their relationship with the Nazis. The bank was seized about a year later under the Trading with the Enemy Act.
Hard to believe this country ever elected one, let alone two of those evil spawn bastards as President.
OMG your'e so right. GWB is related to guy who traded with the Nazis like 70 years ago, that makes him Hitler! Someone save us from the scary Bushitler and his Nazi stormtroopers that are going to take over the country and put us all in Gitmo!
The central banks and their paid whores who bankrolled both world wars were documented by Anthony C. Sutton and Eustace Mullins in several books.
fdr was another self chosenite who changed his name from rosenfelt, did everything he could to lie us into another war for profit and slaughter of the goy cattle
http://tracker.zaerc.com/torrents-details.php?id=15137
more nesta webster and other greats:
http://www.iamthewitness.com/
Ah, no - a money-less USA and a bankrupt France united to defeat a wealthy Britain in the Revolutionary War.
maybe you should know that paypals house bank is jp morgan. so every dollar you put on a paypal account gets automaticly to jp. i dont think thats your intention...?!
There is absolutely no frikkin way I am putting my money into gd paypal, PAL!
Are you nuts or something? Do you really trust that "thing" with your money?
Theres a sucker born every minute, and you won.
Got Silver?
it's-a funny. baby-boomer calls it's kids gen-x
thank you for the summary of middle earth
what's happening to tyler?
Julian Assange is GenX.. Obama and Palin are sell outs to the boomers
our motto has always been 'Make Things Matter'
Interesting philosophy. Its very America focused in the examples though. The oldest members of my family are very much narrow minded to the events of this generation (the last 20 years). They do not see any fundamental problems other than their favorite religious leader / politician can't get anything done or isn't viewed favorably by the media or their neighbors. To borrow a line from 1984, their "ignorance is strength" and they fail to see that they are living where "freedom is slavery" and they truly believe that "war is peace", so thats why we (Americans) need to have massive combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan and troops stationed all over the world....
Captn, Read this one.
http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2010/12/december-4-2010-dvd-is-out-debt-dollar.html
He discribes the social conditioning perfectly that achieved your parent's attitude.
This is pretty depressing Tyler.
Let's hope it never gets to this.
But here in Europe, it's pretty common to think that every crisis is sealed with a war. You have 4 examples, we have hundreds of examples in our history. Here the 4th year patern doesn't fly but that doesn't mean it can't happen.
Let's just hope it doesn't happen to close to home if it happens.
Why are folks mistaking Tyler as the author? It's from Jim Quinn.
Not reading for comprehension?
I knew whom it was from almost immediately.
Recognized his style from the first paragraph.
Of course, I used to read his forum religiously, until he changed to a new format that I really do not care for. Now I just read him here, when he bothers to post it.
Still like him though, really good writer.
They can't steal enough during the debasements without getting caught. The 80's depression was too small and too short. The dot com burst was too uninclusive. Too many people sidestepped it and got out. This one has to be huge and they are caught before they even started.
Stealing a company is relatively easy. Stealing a country still doable. Stealing a world has happened twice and it will happen again. But it won't last.
Wow the seven nominees for president in 2012 are promising
Sarah "I can see Russia from my house" Palin
Mitt "Lets Bomb Iran even though it wont work " Romney
Mike"WWJD" Huckabee
Newt "Lets bomb Iran even though it will end in America's Adrianople" Gingrich
Barack "Uh Uh Uh Recovery Summer" Obama
Hillary " i cry when I'm losing" Clinton
and the mayor of my city Mike "Get the gunz!!!!" Bloomberg
Oh yeah great canidates to lead our nation into further bankruptcy and expanding the size of government and empire building. This will end well
Sarcasm off
Seriously if Sarah Palin is elected or Obama gets a second term the status quo will stay the same. i have to say the tea party has been hijacked from its Libertarian views. Ask an average tea parties from Alabama would they be willing to cut military spending 50%,get rid of Homeland Security and end the wars, they will be quiet. They call for cutting spending(rightfully so) but they just do not know what to cut.
They will never touch Social Security,Welfare,Military Spendimg,HealthCare,medicaid,and cutting govt 60%.
We need men like Ron Paul,Judge Napolitano,and other old school conservatives and Libertarians. However this will never happen unless there is a major information revolution that awaken the American public. We need to wake up the people that both parties are the same Big Brother system. Left Wing,Right Wing same fucken bird! Neo libs and Neo cons are both statist and for big govt and empire building that will bankrupt us.
[...they just do not know what to cut.]---Weimar Ben Bernanke
Tea Party, fulfill your mandate: cut EVERYTHING.
No kidding. The author, like mainstream media slime, totally discounts the one possibility that is substantially different from the others (Ron Paul). Pretty much everything Ron Paul said in the last presidential debates has happened exactly as he warned, even as all those other candidates made faces to indicate Ron Paul was crazy.
Well, we see who was crazy and who was not. Yet everyone with any signficant degree of mainstream acceptance discounts Ron Paul totally. Even those folks in mainstream media who like Ron Paul are forced by their employers to ignore and trash him during the election cycle.
Too bad the vast majority of amercians are braindamaged beyond repair, and/or bought off by government programs like food stamps (43 million now, which is something like 120 million households).
Frankly, if america does not take a 180-degree turn and head back towards honesty, liberty, justice, productivity and individualism... it deserves to die (as a nation), and those who do believe in the good principles that defined america should leave before that happens... because they sure as hell don't deserve the hell that the predators-that-be, predator-class and leach-class do.
I believe that is why the author "discounted" Ron Paul. He was trying to list high polling, high name recognition candidates, who had (as of today) the highest likelihood of winning. I think he probably did a pretty good job with that.
I don't think he was specifically dissing Paul.
Ron Paul has a vastly larger, vastly more loyal, vastly more energetic following than Huckabee and some of the others.
Hate to feed the political fires, but Palin should now be known as the woman who seized the world media spotlight to call for the murder of Julian Assange, don't you think?
That was no petty or ambiguous thing she did there: It was definitive.
I hope to see people properly acknowledging it--regardless of how hot or homey they think she is. She has revealed her true potential in unmistakable terms.
Sucks, but thank god we now know.
That was a master stroke. Now both parties have announced that they believe it is alright to murder people who might be a threat, no judge, no jury, all executioner. Once the people are sufficiently acclimated to that idea, that the state can murder anyone that is a threat to the state things will get 'fun'. This is going to be one hell of a wild ride! Need to bust out Gulag Archipelago again.
To my mind, where a candidate stands on that issue is a fundamental acid test--regardless of what group they political-party with. I suppose we're fortunate that people are going on record with their positions.
Oh, I think you'll find that any candidate that gets the nomination will be 100% behind state sanctioned murder of all questioners of state power. Look at the collection of goons pictured in the article above. Show me one that is not in love with the idea of state sanctioned murder.
"If we can't kill anyone we want then the terrorists win!"
This is not about candidates though. Like I said it's planting the seed that it's ok. Just like the anti China war drums kicked off in earnest right after the election. They are floating this balloon to see how Americans will respond to the idea that the gov can murder publicly those who it does not like. Sadly with as bloodthirsty and narcissistic as Americans are I don't expect them to get to upset with murder anymore.
I hope there will be potentially successful candidates who do oppose murder, but I agree with what you describe. It seemed to begin on 9-11, with the declarations that "will will kill those we believe responsible." The first time I heard somebody freely throw the word "kill" out as if it were perfectly civil and appropriate speech on national television I was stunned. This was definitely a turning point in civil discourse and the evolution of our national character.
Yeah, president badass had his swagger on, (not to mention his really neat Cowboy Bob outfit) spewin' his 'dead or alive' shit, and mainstream America felt like it was part of some really cool tv show, with the dumbest motherfucker ever to be installed in the white house taking them along on his glorious mission of vengeance. It was one of the greatest experiments ever in social conditioning and acceptance of authoritarian control. What they learned was that these willfully ignorant, shit-for-brains inhabitants of America could be led around by even the most dishonest, dim-witted dirtbag they could locate. And one of the really valuable things they learned was that they could now present a cretinous cow like Sarah Palin as a legitimate candidate for president. I can only imagine their pride and satisfaction.
What a fuckin world.
eloquent....pithy, but eloquent. could not have said it better. he really was the dumbest mo fo ever at 1600, weren't he?
and they bought it.... as you said. what I could not believe was how nobody ever said a word about Cheney leading him around by the nose, while it was blatantly obvious to the most casual observer... what being obvious was that George desperately needed a father-figure....holy shit, are we screwed
Obummer can't run again. This time a few states have passed laws since his election that will require him (or anyone else) to provide his long form Birth Certificate, something he's spent north of 2M to avoid showing. I don't know what excuse he'll use, but he won't run. The TPTB can't take the chance the vetting turns into a national revelation which highlights his ineligibility to sign the bills he's made into law since 08.
That means either a strong Demo needs to emerge (Hillary says no more public offices, who knows if that means anything) or we are stuck with one of the idiots listed on the Repuke side (with the exception of RP, who will never have any MSM coverage and is thus unelectable).
Except for Wall Street and the companies its workforce supports (Harry Winston, Bentley, Gulfstream, Stefano Ricci), the US is on life support. Of the candidates you mention, there is one who has the ability to truly pull the plug on America and end the long wait: Sarah Palin. Vote her in and the maggots finally get their meal.
Ron Paul lacks the gravitas required in a nation where style trumps substance ten times out of ten. Ask yourself this question, and be honest.....did Michael Dukakis lose in 1988 because of his policies, or because he looked life a nimrod riding in that tank?
If we just used the technology currently available, doing a real time over dubbing of Ron Paul's voice with James Earl Jones, he---and we---might stand a chance.
go farther down that list chindit and you may have your answer...
...the special interest groups have the Feds totally under their control...they are the ones that must be exposed for the average citizen to understand why the Federal Government must be reduced in power...the public must really come to see things as they are in reality...our elected officials are bought and paid for by a host of special interest groups whose goals are not the same as the average citizen.
Possible solution: insurance.aes256
http://www.csper.org
It all comes down to how much economic, social and emotional pain it will take to wake the slumbering masses. I suspect that long before this critical mass is reached, the powers that be will start up another major foreign war to mobilize the non critical thinking "nationalists", distract the apathetic and dismember the dissidents.
We shall see.
No doubt they will try. But I've been thinking WW3 would be harder then just provoking NKorea or using SKorea as a proxy to swat the hornets nest. Even a NKorea-SKorea fight would at best bring in USA and China, what about Europe and Russia? Iran would not start WW3, Russia would just laugh as oil crested $200 and China would simmer in anger and sell dollars into "safe haven" strength. Surely the big players would not allow Europe and Russia to stay out of the festivities.
I think this is why they are trying to remove don't ask don't tell, so they can
bring the draft back. To easy to avoid compulsary service the way the law is
currently written.
these have been my thoughts as well for a while
Towards the end of the Roman empire, citizens would cut off their right thumbs so they couldn't wield a gladius!
CD, me thinks that the thing that can be counted upon this time is that any "foreign" war will quickly visit US shores too. Ironically, it might start such a visit as a flase-flag masquerading as a true-flag.
Really a head-scratcher, if one thinks about it long enough that the premier war-mongering nation of the last century has had nary a visit by anyone with "bad" intentions on it's mainland.
It's a bit like Air Force One never having had a "glitch" in all it's years of flying. Never! Not one forced landing, not one.
Soup's on the boil, the pot is huge and one and all are fair meat.
What we want to know is, who's at the table, smacking their lips?
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
Not the 152 year Enoch Calendar Realignment then.......
Guess we're on the wrong calendar . . .
Didnt Nostradamus use cyclic analysis?
time to find out if we are that exceptional and defy gravity after all....
CD - with all due respect, the slumbering masses move only when they run out of bread...and only to satisfy their quest for bread...
Checked basic foodstuffs lately?
http://www.cmegroup.com/
Perhaps you didn't understand my comment. I didn't say the slumbering masses would wake. I said it was a question of what degree of pain it would take to do so and that long before that happens, a foreign war would be created to try to derail any waking.
yes, agreed...it seems we are already in the process in several fronts.
Time for some mortality reminder notices.
In minor contretemps, Leidner wrongly concludes that Lincoln was a moderate politician. Politically or rhetorically, his was no middle flight.
"In minor contretemps, Leidner wrongly concludes that Lincoln was a moderate politician. Politically or rhetorically, his was no middle flight."
Good observation.
For Leidner to reach this conclusion, he must have felt Lincoln's arrest warrant for the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court (after a ruling Lincoln didn't like) was also "moderate".
And the Emancipation Proclamation, that freed no slaves in Union held territory, must have been likewise moderate in his view. The document is very specific in keeping the status quo in it's conquered territory.
Ah well...a lie can reach half way around the world before the truth can get it's pants on...LOL...carry on.
Thanks, nmewn. And your "a lie can reach half way around the world before the truth can get it's pants on" is priceless. Take care, Mark
The quote was not fairly attributed by me...I believe it was Churchill who said it.
Take care.
Good post, nmewn.
Well, as you know, there is more of course.
"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union..."
Lincoln to Greeley 8/22/1862
http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/greeley.htm
His overriding purpose was to conquer a sovereign nation and force it's people and property by annexation back into the US...at any and all costs.
The record is pretty clear, he succeeded, physically. But not mentally. It has never been the same. And at the price of his life and the lives of hundreds of thousands of others.
Then the plundering started...Reconstruction.
Another chapter glossed over in the public's education of what this was really about.
At some point I suppose I should get contributor status and dive into this period of time...from a different perspective.
Not to pick open old scabs...but to add to what a lot of people have never considered...like the migration from Europe a decade before and who they were...and Charles Anderson Dana and the Brook Farm & what it was.
Fascinating stuff...to me anyways...LOL.
..not to mention the chapter on the 14th amendment and the interpretation of the 14th amendment in the 1886 Santa Clara case which gave birth to that lovely creation 'corporate personhood'.
There's one I had not explored...thank's tip.
The railroads have always had a...how shall we say...a warm personal relationship with power.
It would be interesting to discover how a precedent came to be, via head note vs. an actual ruling.
On the whole however, from my point of view...things cannot be taxed...only people can be taxed, as a result of taking ownership of something...and only once by the way.
This being true, it would end up being a correct outcome (regardless of any behind the scenes chicanery) because along with taxation comes the right for one to advocate for the taxed party's interests...whatever they may be.
You can't have taxation without representation.
A governmental conundrum?...LOL.
Arlington National Cemetery was created during the Lincoln administration. Arlington House was confiscated from the Lee family during the civil war. Lincoln and his generals intended to preclude the Lees from ever enjoying their property again. They turned the Lee’s home into a grave yard. Among the first buried were 1,800 Union casualties from the Battle of Bull Run.
True.
A very vindictive thing for a "moderate" to do, one would think ;-)
I do not know if things will change. When you look at the fiscal out look for the 2020s it is downright apocalyptic and a nightmare. I do not forsee a currency crisis until the late 2010s and early 2020s because at that point it will be to late. We still have time to fix all the problems we have however both political parties are not willing to make any sacrifices to stop the debt nuclear bomb. The welfare-warfare state is going to become the welfare state. Then it will go bust. And when this happens it will end in tears. But hey this all gloom and doom "We are America history and the law of economics do not apply to us!" However the euro is not any better shape either. I cannot see a Yuan reserve currency because China has a shitload of problems,Russia is dying. So I guess we are head towards a Neo Dark Ages.
You have to realize by 2020 the Export Quantity of Oil will be 10-15 Million Barrels of Oil per day LESS.
The shock of that Physical reality will cause a shock of the Fiscal reality way before that.
Any financial forecast which ignores that Physical reality will be woefully inaccurate.
But by that time, our dependancy on said oil will have decreased by more than double that amount.
I just put in an advance order on a new Chevy Douche Coupe. (available late 2011) With fuel economy estimated at nearly 500 miles to a gallon of unicorn piss, I don't see your little oil crisis amounting to much.
Oh. Fick... I sprayed beer all over my flat panel...
That was some funny sheeet.
Can't we just have a nice peaceful secession of Red from Blue and not have to fight over it?
It comes down to facts and money to be made under saving the earth theme.
Sunspot Cycle Maximum Going Towards 2012
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bGKAaIGY98
Current activity:
http://www.spaceweather.com/
Think tank propaganda: Pay into a carbon credit tax today, will keep the tax collector away. Wake up lemmings.
To ignore or reject the "Fourth Turning" as some crackpot idea, or as the ruminations of an unbalanced mind, is to do yourself a disservice. This is nothing more than cycles. As one season inexorably follows another, cycles occur in nature naturally with a regularity, that when studied provide one with an insight into what may be.
It affords the inquiring mind a chance to fortify their position and in the process, to protect those about them whom care is required. These scenarios have one common thread that runs through them all and that is change. To what degree of change is the only question. Preparation is the key to surviving this change. Got gold? Got silver?
I don't control the climate or impose laws to make the serfs to feel guilty. Our masters must know they can make a shitload of money, yet they cannot control the climate.
They are working at it. Enjoy the show:
http://www.ssd.noaa.gov/goes/east/tatl/loop-wv.html
Just don't ask anyone any uncomfortable questions...toe the line...speak when spoken to...you know the drill.
"McAleer says the refusal to allow him access to the Cancun Climate Change Conference is censorship.
"I sent them exactly the same documentation that was acceptable for Copenhagen last year, but it seems they did not like my coverage of Copenhagen and are now trying to silence me and the people who have questions about this process," said McAleer.
"The message is clear—ask UN scientists and politicians difficult questions and you will be banned from any UN sponsored events. No difficult questions allowed," he added.
McAleer is a 20 year veteran journalist who covered the Northern Ireland troubles. He has also worked for the UK Sunday Times and as a foreign correspondent for the Financial Times and The Economist. He has worked as a journalist and film maker in countries as diverse as Ireland, Romania, Uzbekistan , Indonesia, Madagascar, Chile, Indonesia, Vietnam, and many other countries."
http://noteviljustwrong.com/blog/general/510
Is that your blog?
The US Military got new antenna equipment as a result of the new fiscal year and are behaving like kids with new Playstations!
"Is that your blog?"
No.
I follow this;
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/04/more-satellite-images-of-snow-bound-uk/
I picked it up there somewhere.
Regards
"The ice age is coming, the sun is zooming in Engines stop running and the wheat is growing thin A nuclear error, but I have no fear London is drowning-and I live by the river"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiVvA9YQpiI
Could you explain, please? It does look like a leafblower is sending all the clouds due East away from Haiti & the DR...but I'm quite the newbie so don't know what I'm looking for.
Exactly. They are using chemtrails & newly installed microwave antennas to blow the wind eastwards (as of now).
Keep coming to the sit and you'll get to see square-edged cloud fronts and other anomalies.
Welcome to the 21st Century version of the Monroe Doctrine.
Green Leader, I think your paper hat is too tight...
hulk, wasn't it government microwaves that caused your condition?
hey Hulk, try this link on for size - it's from the "popular press" USAToday, circa 2005:
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/discoveries/2005-10-31-military-wea...
they're not really talking about it, but they're not hiding it either - search "weather modification" if you want to start looking at what's out there. . . or just watch the sky daily, it's pretty widespread now. . . the aluminium chaff is from WW2 radar busting, old hat really, but they've added barium & other stuff to the mix, including nanoparticles. . .
and, of course, Monsanto has a GMO seed patent that is aluminium resistant. . . yeah.
Try this:
Weather as a Force Multiplier:
Owning the Weather in 2025
http://www.fas.org/spp/military/docops/usaf/2025/v3c15/v3c15-1.htm
But it is a crackpot idea. Wrong in so many ways. The idea that this is a "cycle", beyond human control, our collective fate and unavoidable or inevitable is wrong. These events are being controlled. Peak oil is BS. The clash of civilizations, Muslim versus Christian is BS. Global warming is BS.
Your blatant ignorance proves that you chose the correct career.
No sale on this forum, buddy. Why don't you try Fox News or the Larry King Show?
I'm not your buddy, cocksucker.
Well, there goes any credibility you might have. Poof.
To call this, "crackpot" and simply dismiss it is a little shortsighted isn't it? When patterns are studied and can be applied to civilization for hundreds and hundreds of years, it really doesn't matter how you feel about it.
Admittedly it isn't hard science, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have some meaning. Maybe these events are being controlled. Do you make the claim that this is the first time? Either way, controlled or not, it doesn't make anything the author or Strauss and Howe said untrue.
How much erudition do you expect from a bicycle repairman?
I don't want to burst you bubble, but I'm not really a bicycle repairman.
Me bubble is not bursted.
The whole zeitgeist is faux has been planned and implemented by TPTB. You can deal with it or simply ring your wrists and say "well these cycles are inevitable and beyond our control". The "scholarship" in the article is shallow to say the least.
We expect you to "say the least" because your posts continue to enlighten us as to your ignorance and stupidity.
I disagree with Abe totally, the bankers and most politicians ARE my enemy and the enemy of the American Citizens. You could get rid of all those losers and have a great country with actual "Free Markets and Liberty".
My vote is messy.
well, E-man, you got my "vote"
DONALD J. TRUMP 2012 BITCHEZ
http://shouldtrumprun.com
now thats a TITAN
The Donald allegedly said he's not looking for the job, but if "they" don't get their shit together..... (i'm paraphasing)
yeah, 2012 will definitly be a hell of a year. May I suggest to people a book I was listening to last night. It was pretty interesting.
A history of money and banking in the united states -murray n rothbard.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZKAi5FZEIw&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V5JMZnWl4Q&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAp8vT4HMIg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyF5A1Mkcfc&feature=channel
Yes, let's make a theory that explains our etho-centric corner of the world as if that encompassed the entirety.
Pure nonsense.
Ignorance is a choice.
Do some basic research about the theory. Strauss & Howe take it back to the 1400's.
Pathetic!!!
http://www.fourthturning.com/my_html/body_turnings_in_history.html
LeB,
If one subscribes to the fact of fractals, then it matters not where you see a definitive pattern. If it shows up in your ethno-centric corner of the world, it probably shows up in mine, albeit modified for my particular circumstance/culture.
A quick look around the world, at the very same times, will show, with minor mods, very similar, defining times.
India's history does indeed reflect that.
And now, in this super connected, 24/7 world, we're all in it together, simultaneously!
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com
"multiculturalism" (white genocide) is a recipe for disaster.
There are very few invading countries I would defend DC against. Very few.
I hope DC and Londonistan fall.
Amerikwa is going the same way as colonial portugal through the same dysgenics.
2012 is not the end of the world. It is a new beginning. Your very own choices define your future. We have lots of noise to distract your reasoning. Human nature will see thru the noise.
Atomizer
on Sun, 12/05/2010 - 16:42
#780033
2012 is not the end of the world. It is a new beginning. Your very own choices define your future. We have lots of noise to distract your reasoning. Human nature will see thru the noise.
Cartman: Hippies.They're everywhere. They wanna save the earth, but all they do is smoke pot and smell bad.
Cartman: I hate hippies! I mean, the way they always talk about "protectin' the earth" and then drive around in cars that get poor gas mileage and wear those stupid bracelets - I hate 'em! I wanna kick 'em in the nuts!
Cartman: Naw dude, Independent films are those black and white hippy movies. They're always about gay cowboys eating pudding.
Stan: I don't want to shoot the bunny.
Uncle Jimbo: No nephew of mine is going to be a tree hugger.
Cartman: Yeah, hippie. Go back to Woodstock if you don't wnat to shoot anything.
???
Go back to Godlikeproductions or Marketwatch. None of my profile states this.
My 2 cents, NFL lockout next year will be the cause of trouble.
This one sure pegs the BS-O-Meter. The whole cycle-o-history repeating itself is sooo cliche. I've been forced to read up on the various "Gens" and crap in marketing classes and the only polite response I can come up with is "classification is not explanation". Just labeling something and describing similarities doesn't really get you anywhere.
Yeah,...Aristotle was a dolt with his 'classification' 'categorization' and 'logic' nonsense.
The problem is that you can always tell a story, there's always an explanation and there's never a testable prediction or proposition. It's like watching the financial channel on TV, they never have an up or down day that they can't come up with some story to explain. I'm all for logic, but logic alone doesn't hack it.
"...logic alone..." You got that right. Witness how logical human behavior is (where's Spock, dammit!?). Broad cyclescan paint a rough "model" of a potentiality, but the devil is always in the details, and boy are those little details ugggg-a-ly. Makes "coloring outside the lines" look like art.
Trying to explain the market(s) with cock-n-bull stories is not logic, far from it!
the differences are innate - but everyone still has their own choice to be fake and untrue to themselves
Boomers really really despise GenX... you'll know when GenX takes over the reigns ~~ a lot more things will get done with a whole less amount of fanfare
Boomers despise GenX? How can you say that - many Boomers are parents to GenXers.
What, specifically, will get done?
If the Turning philosophy was claiming what was GOING to happen, I'd be right with you. Rather, it is focused on what has ALREADY happened, and parallels to today.
This isn't any pet topic of mine, but in a lot of ways it seems rather simple:
1. - We have little or no civilization. Life sucks. We fight for every little thing we have.
2. - We advance a little, get more comfortable, relax a bit. We start having sing a longs and church picnics.
3. - Life is getting pretty damn good as technology and civilization take root and grow. Now we just have sex with a lot of strangers, and take cash advances off of our Visa cards to buy an 8 ball.
4. - Now we have Washington, American Idol, and Lady Gaga. You don't think something major HAS to happen?
It's only as heavy as you make it.
This theory is BS, just like so many other "modern" theories. It starts out correctly, as all theories should, with observation. I'm sure the patterns described in the article can be observed in history... but inherently only in modern history, since long ago almost no synchronization of geographically separated regions existed due to crappy communication and trade, or absense thereof.
The huge error that so many intellectually corrupted scientists and others make is... then elevating their pet pattern to some kind of "fundamental law of reality" (in their minds) that supposedly controls reality. That's a fatal intellectual flaw.
This does not mean certain tendencies and phenomenon do not exist. For example, the harsh reality of war and economic collapse tend not to be as fully understood by those who never experienced them... and so they are more willing to take or advocate actions that might lead to those consequences.
But that's a huge step from being some kind of fundamental physical law or social, behavioral equivalent.
And that's a very important distinction, because it means that any human who is honest, and not captured by the popular agendas and delusions of the current political scene definitely canavoid the disasters these stupid theories consider certain. In this case, the one well known presidential politician who would avoid the disasters is Ron Paul. Assuming he was not assassinated on orders of the FederalReserve, he would [certainly try to] disband the cancers that are destroying america, and almost forcing it over the cliff of history.
Thus, these kinds of theories are "interesting" to those who have firm control of their consciousness, and who can evaluate the causal status of such theories... but to everyone else they are harmful, and act much like self fulfilling prophesies.
Attention needs to be focused on identifying what are the fundamental problems of modern mankind (for those who have not figured it out yet), and then on fixing those problems. As it turns out, fixing those problems is quite easy --- just remove all the fixes imposed by the predators-that-be and predator-class since the late 1700s.
You're not an Aquarian, then. :)
Agreed that we should start by simply stopping the shit that doesn't work.
"Agreed that we should start by simply stopping the shit that doesn't work."
That stoppage would be a good start ;-)