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Guest Post: Will California Be A Test Case For Legalizing Marijuana?
Submitted by Carolyn Austin of Wall St. Cheat Sheet
California made the news again this week with an effort by marijuana advocates to put three measures on the ballot that legalize small quantities of marijuana for personal use.
Currently, thirteen states allow medicinal marijuana use, including California. This recent effort represents the first step toward full legalization and a stance that States are serious about asserting jurisdiction over the issue.
Proponents of legalization, such as the Marijuana Policy Project (MPP), point to studies that show the economic benefits of legalizing marijuana — the largest cash crop in the US — could be substantial.
Recently, over 500 economists sent an open letter to the President, Congress, and state legislatures, citing a report by Professor Jeffrey A. Miron, The Budgetary Implications of Marijuana Prohibition.
The report shows that marijuana legalization — replacing prohibition with a system of taxation and regulation — would save $7.7 billion per year in state and federal expenditures on prohibition enforcement and produce tax revenues of at least $2.4 billion annually if marijuana were taxed like most consumer goods. If, however, marijuana were taxed similarly to alcohol or tobacco, it might generate as much as $6.2 billion annually.
This rosy scenario sounds like the barker at the state fair … everyone is a winner. Local governments with a city sales tax could also collect their piece of the pie.
But is the economic argument enough? Will the taxation argument upstage the “Gateway Drug” argument put forth by critics of the legalization movement? With terrorism and other more serious criminals flowing into the prison system, will we continue incarcerating people who ingest something less dangerous and socially destructive than alcohol?
According to Rob Kampia, Executive Director of the Marijuana Policy Project, over 25 million people per year in the US use marijuana illegally. Given that alcohol causes overwhelmingly more deaths and injuries than marijuana and also serves as a “Gateway Drug,” will the economics finally win the day as social acceptance of marijuana improves?
Like alcohol or cigarettes, smoking marijuana can get out of control and become harmful. But, as history tells us, prohibition does little to prevent or remediate such behaviors.
A recent headline, “Retirees Demand Medical Marijuana,” seems to capture the mood of the moment. Jokes about “joint efforts” and “eco (cannabis)-tourism” aside, the case for medicinal marijuana with taxation has been gaining steam during the recession while general legalization efforts get mired in social controversy.
As usual, California is open to trying new things. With government deficits piling up across the country, Californiacation may once again spread throughout the Union. Ironically, this time the capitalists and politicians are leading the charge.
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35,893,799 people and 50,000,000,000 in debt ... they need it
State of CA dept ~ $ 1,400 per citizen
Fed dept ~ $ 40,000 per citizen
Fed guarantees ~ $ 80,000 per citizen
Myself, my wife, our 2 kids may be asked to pay our fair share of the dept, about $166,400. If we are lucky, the guarantees will only cost $20,000 per citizen, making our bill about $246,400. We're doomed. I'm sick, nauseous. Got any weed?
Abe,
Just send me $47.06 ... I'm holding a California State warrent due and payable on Oct 2, 2009 ... I figure you owe me ... and I still have to come with my $120,000. Or just owe it to me, then I can sell the debt to a few of my friends, they can use it as reserve for loans they make to their associates, who in turn securitize it in a CalOnly offering (Ca Tax free of course to fund Marijuana research), use JPM for the issuance and with the proceeds, I'll cross off your $246,400, my $120,000 and our kids can pay it off over the next 80 years.
THIS IS WHAT YOU CAN EXPECT IF POT WAS LEGAL:
http://www.harborsidehealthcenter.com/
legalize everything. nobody has the right to legislate what i put in my body. and i say this with the qualifier of "as long as I do not violate the rights of others." And one more, corporations are not persons, so their rights don't count. they, the corporations are just looking for good wage slaves to help them continue their orwellian march to world dominance.
'this opinion endorsed by Jimmy Cayne, former CEO of Bear Stearns' NOT! lol!
i used to smell the cannabis smoke wafting outta his office even fancy cigars couldn't hide
Don't bogart that joint my friend
Pass it over to me
Roll another one
Just like the other one
You've been holding on to it
And I sure will like a hit
That one's burned to the end
Come on and be a real friend
Easy Rider (1969)
Three cheers for Duckweed!
MY BODY, MY CHOICE! That should be the only rallying cry from now on- pertaining to anything...mode of transportation, food eaten, clothes worn (or not), gambling, drugs, prostitution, polygamy, worn seat belt...taxes paid...
I am sick to death of dealing with authority- or neighbors- dictating how I live my own life. This is beyond ridiculous now.
something wrong with your RSS feed. haven't seen one all day. thought you died.
there was a note yesterday. hardware being upgraded.
one of the new features will be a daily poll where readers can select one of 5 stocks, currently with a forward p/e estimate exceeding 50, that will go up a minimum of 15% the next day. enormous computing power will be needed to the limitless suppy of candidates.
Woooo Hooo when that WEED ticker shows up i'm all over it!
It's what the Pac would want!
West SI-EEEEEYDE!
come see me in the LBCCCCCCCC
Poly Jackrabbits, son!
bet if they offered a blunt with every bond sale, they might actual sell the full deal next time.
the only benefit to not legalizing, is it keeps complete douches (who are scared of breaking the law - hahahaha) away.
Blunt first... then bond sale.
Just might be crazy enough to work on our Chinese friends. Of course they are still a little pissed about that whole opium wars deal...
Still best just to legalize and tax the crap out of munchies...
blunt first, then cheetos if you buy bonds
I recommend the Volcano Vaporizer to all, nothing finer on the planet. That is for your, ehh, hops and chamomile vaporization needs!
California will be a test case for "what the hell do we do now" once it finishes its implosion.
naturally, they will prove themselves to be "overachievers" by being first to dive into some barney frank approved guaranteed municipals honey pot, fully backstopped by some alphabet soup program (sorry, arnold, but TLGP is already taken by fdic and the squid). at some point in the future, Cali will claim that they never did need help from the Feds and will proclaim their regret that they ever borrowed money using the American taxpayer backstop. Naturally, they will still keep the billions outstanding at a lower rate due to the risk being shouldered by their fellow citizens.
then, everybody can torch up some joints, listen to some gool ole' grateful dead, and enjoy the green shoots of a new day in America.
DH,
Those GD values espoused by Jerry and company could really help the country out in a deflationary environment, where achievement is not going to be what it used to be. So call achievement (bigger house, bigger paycheck) is what got us into this mess. Smaller, nicer, "kinder" is not a bad idea...
True.
well said ms deviant lol!
the absolute key word in the GD community was (is still for most) always "kind" and you used it! "are u kind" (uncle john's band).
for those that don't know, jerry garcia did rake in tons of coin and could not have cared less. he blew away most of the dough (on others, not so much himself) and having money was simply the last thing on his list.
anyways, to each his own.
I appraised Jerry's home in Marin 20 years ago. Although they got a deal on it (estate sale)It was very modest. Not a "rock star" home at all.
I don't have a dream job, I have goals :-)
"You see, the weed be letting you know, evil lurks."
Friday
If they are; tourism will be their no.1 industry ....
Tomorrow would not be soon enough. I would actually develop a soft spot for the CME if they traded pot futures. I do miss my City of Oakland medical marijuana shopping privileges. Heck, my dispensary even had home delivery when I couldn't drive due to chronic pain and the blinding headaches associated with my situation.
Seems to me that CHRONIC futures should be traded in Philly.
http://www.altadisusa.com/im6/PhilliesBluntRbow.jpg
ROFLMAO. Truly. "My situation." Fucking - A.
Normally the joke would be deliberate, unfortunately for me this is more than serious. It is ultimately what led me here.
I've got a feeling that marijuana will soon be a growth industry.
Expect prices to fall as production increases...
Ignoring what economists tell us is a good economy, we like something that every year gives us more while costing less. Moore's law sees to it with computers. Modern agricultural methods n technologies give us long term stable and even falling prices...corn stayed under $3 for a pretty darn long time, right?
As a gag my econ thesis professor gave us a paper one of his students wrote about the economics of marijuana. Well it was interesting to see that this paper circa 1991 said 2.5 grams of Marijuana cost $50. Well here I was in 2006 and not only (according to people I knew) did Marijuana still cost $50 for 2.5 grams, but it was much more potent. Forget what the teevee tells you, in a well functioning economy we get more of something for less.
and when you are horribly can't move nauseated, there is no better drug.
better and cheaper than ondansetron.
Without question Lizzy.
Wikipedia is fun when looking up pharmacology. So many interesting things. Like that Ondansetron. It is used to treat nausea in chemotherapy patients. HOW does it treat nausea? It supresses activity in the Vargas nerve, which controls your gag reflex. When I feel like puking, it helps if my gag reflex is a little more chill...but I still feel like puking.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ondansetron
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vagus_nerve
So we turn to the psychoactive compound in Marijuana, the Cannabinoid THC. The nervous and immune systems of ALL animals have Cannabinoid receptors. Stimulation of these receptors has been shown to relieve pain, reduce nausea, and even assist in the maintenence of bone mass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannaboid
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabinoid_receptor
All the while someone undergoing chemo is taking a drug for vomiting, a drug for appetite, a drug for pain, and a drug for bone loss. Marijuana is by no means a miracle cure, and a great deal more study is needed. But why the hell isn't the option available in the vast majority of states?
Marijuana is by no means a miracle cure, and a great deal more study is needed. But why the hell isn't the option available in the vast majority of states?
Because it is a miracle cure. It will easily put much pharma and law enforcement out of biz, if it's legalized. Which is why I'm cautious in Cali. But very optimistic.
Even the Monetarist Milton Friedman supported it.
Taxable crop production...taxable wages... incremental retail sales....
whats not to like?
And it would substantially reduce the number of angry pitchfork bearing citizens demanding the heads of those responsible for the deplorable economic situation thingy... what was that all about again?
Shit I forgot already... pass the Cheetos please...
California, never saw a tax they didn't like.
Is this what Obama meant when he said:
"they get all wee weed up"?
I have felt for a while that a move back to hemp based economic model for our fibrous material needs makes a lot of sense. Sticky icky is great, and I wish I lived in Cali for that reason alone (couldn't drag me there now though), but the other uses of Hemp are endless. We could make every drop of fuel, every piece of rubber, every sheet of paper, every car body panel, every strand of rope, every piece of clothing, out of hemp. Sailors back in the day carried thousands of hemp seeds in huge bags on their wooden vessels. Shipwrecked you say? No problem; plant some hemp, wait 4 months, harvest and reprocess back into rope and sails (very easy even then), and your off. Hell we should be selling floating hemp farms made out of recycled oil drums with build in solar powered de-salinators to every country in the middle east. Fuck the desert, just pull an aqua-grow!
Hmm, anyone remember Andrew Lahde? He said it best:
http://www.distressedvolatility.com/2009/08/hedge-fund-manager-andrew-la...
He is an international super pimp and a man who many should emulate. That letter was posted around some sites a while ago, truly a pleasure to read. What's that guy up to now? Hopefully he is just kicking it extra fresh for those of us with a long way to go.
Thanks for the reminder! I need to dig out my article on Lahde with Peter Schiff and publish that thing. It's a riot.
+10
Japan’s Producer Prices Declined 7.9% in September
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20602014&sid=aYh4InsJU0l4
"If the "drug war" is going to be used to assist in the outlawing of cash, one of the first signs will likely be moves to legalize soft drugs like marijuana. The smoking of cannabis is the primary cash-based illicit activity that people indulge in, and the prospect of having this pleasure withdrawn from them would inevitably create considerable opposition to any plan to outlaw cash. In addition, marijuana legalization would create the appearance of policy-softening on behalf of government, when the opposite is in fact taking place."
Future cashless society.
We are not smart or mature enough as a society to allow the legalization of pot.
As I understand it the "Medical" usage keeps it's use limited to a more mature and very affluent population.
They are reasonably smart enough to not have seriously screwed up a good thing.
With open legalization, Assholes will undoubtedly light up in church, in a crowded movie theater, at a family restaurant.
Police are unavailable as it is. At what cost will the legal system institute investigation and punishment? Will a ticket and a fine suffice as punishment for exposing you children to a second hand high?
It's a nice thought, but it's definitely letting Pandora out of the box to openly legalize it. It's legal now in Mexico, right? Charge a fee at the border. Maybe allowing it in a confined and controlled arena like a cruise ship would work but any serious discussion is lost on merit.
The search for the next highly profitable exportable agricultural commodity from America's breadbasket, which we do very well, thank you very much, has apparently ended. Add this to badass motorcycles, Detroit muscle cars (OK - scratch that), Tennessee whiskey, bamboo fly rods, California pornography and Boeing jets and I think we've got this thing licked.
Got weed?
Got weed?
Hilarious, but the real question is who is your front man? Every ad campaign needs a charismatic front man (just like every band) and I for one would love to see Arnold light a real phat doobster on the steps of the capital building in Sacramento.
He used to smoke dope and talk freely about it when he was a body builder. I uesd to follow him when I was a kid.
Hells yeah he did! I'm finding that famous clip, posting below.
You stalker you...
:-D
I follow my kitty sometimes too.
Can I pay my taxes with weed? ;) It seems to be more valuable than FRN...
Snoop Dogg should run for office.
He could manage the whores (whookers?) in congress. He'd have his mind on our money and our money on his mind.
Word.
To put it bluntly, yes.
At this point I'll take anyone who isn't a Republican or a Democrat.... Fo shizzle.
'Stoners' as an engine for economic growth? Sure, this fits in perfectly with the delusional script this country seems to be following.
One can only presume that those health-conscious Californians are taking into account the additional strains such a move would place upon their health care budget, because that stuff is not exactly low-tar.
Leadership. Morals. Dancing in circles around Baal.
James Cayne votes YES
Dude! dude? Dooooooood. Huh duuud. Like dude. Shuh dude. Waaaay dude. Gnarley dude. Count me in dude!
nothing is more addicting to Government than taxing something. Keep the beast of government out of my dime bag. They would tax sex if they could.
They will once they legalize prostitution.
I WILL CRUSH YOU WITH MY SUPER BODY BUILDING MJ SKILLZ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqep14L2f7k
I can't get high, officer......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJMWyRiY2PE
BTW, LoL, Bloomberg ran a special the other day about how some high-class European drug rehab clinic is getting a lot of business from ex-Wall St.'ers. Why? B/c they lost their jobs and can't afford coke anymore! Speaking of Wall St, I saw Michael Douglas filming Wall St 2 this monday at the NYSE. Shout out to Charlie Sheen.
Better dayz.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nmPZgkt2D4&feature=related
If consumers had pot to make themselves happy, maybe they wouldn't overleverage themselves to buy crap they don't need.
Initially, CA would reap the economic benefits of being the only state to legalize. Until others follow suit and the benefit is distributed and equilibrium is reached.
"If consumers had pot to make themselves happy, maybe they wouldn't overleverage themselves to buy crap they don't need."
One of the real reasons it ain't legal. That and other, er, interests, are making way too much money with it being illegal.
nd I've got to throw away
Yes I've got to throw away
Hey do you have anythin on ya
I yes, I, I've got to throw away
My little house talk
ahhh, the symmetry; health care will be subsidized by those same marijuana dollars; "when butter is outlawed only outlaws will eat butter."
in 80 years, the prohibition of cannabis will seem as silly to the people living then as the prohibition of alcohol does to us now.
as far as taxes is concerned, as long as the state also legalizes the growing of a small amount for personal consumption, i have no problem giving a piece of the nut to the state.
there is already a tax on it -- it's called the black market tax. so the choice is between giving your $ to 2 different sets of criminals. it's just that one of them would be offering the opportunity for me not to labelled a criminal in buying/possessing/growing it.
seems like a fair tradeoff to me, especially when it's essentially the same price either way. and i have an opportunity to control the quality myself if i so choose.
what? lol
So I guess all the ageing hipsters and stoned baby boomers demand for medical maryjane is more a result of easy access to supplies than tax receipts.
Realistically, do 60 year old stoners really want to have to head out and deal with the local teenage drug dealer or drive through the ghetto to get their fix, I sincerely doubt it, just no energy left for all the hassles.
Easier to get your baggie from the local pharmacy with a doctors note. And, with all the retirement villages for old foggies, the plant ladies will have something to keep them busy taking care of the sensimilla grow rooms.
Sweet, sweet, sensimilla!
http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A9G_bHLnONVKY6oAIl6Jzb...
So they legalize small amounts?? Who cares??
It would still be illegal to grow and hold any amount over their set limits.
Where do people think pot comes from?? If growing isn't legalized than it's all bullshit...a scam to tax and still keep the fed drug war money pouring into the local LEO shops.
I call bullshit on that.
7.7 Billion cost reduction at the enforcement level. wow. That right there changes the debate and not necessarily to the legalize side of the argument. Here in Wacky Cali, the prison gaurd union, next only to the Major League Baseball union, is theeeee most powerful union in the nation.
I don't see them letting go of 7.7 Billion so easily (not saying all that is theirs). This is the first I've seen this figure, usually the national and local media only throw out the tax benefit numbers.
But ya, if any state is gonna do it, it'll be here first. Heck, there's mini-amsterdam's in Santa Cruz and at Golden Gate Park near the Haight as there is, so...might actually clean those places up a bit to bring out of the underground.
So they legalize small amounts?? Who cares??
It would still be illegal to grow and hold any amount over their set limits.
Where do people think pot comes from?? If growing isn't legalized than it's all bullshit...a scam to tax and still keep the fed drug war money pouring into the local LEO shops.
I call bullshit on that.
its already legal there. all you need is to claim you have one of many ailments and you get a prescription.
The solution to California's lack of employment is weed - a means to make everyone either unemployable or indifferent to being employed. "Dude, where my job?"
Cheech and Chong are way ahead on the whole pot thing:
Chong: You know what we should in vest in? An old age home for hippies. Cause, think about it, hippies have been around since the 60's man, and now there isn't really a hip place for them to go anymore. So, you know, it would be a home where they could smoke all the dope they'd want and listen to all the music they want, you know.
Cheech: Oh yeah, we could call in 'Laidback Manor'.
So they legalize small amounts?? Who cares??
It would still be illegal to grow and hold any amount over their set limits.
Where do people think pot comes from?? If growing isn't legalized than it's all bullshit...a scam to tax and still keep the fed drug war money pouring into the local LEO shops.
I call bullshit on that.
you're right...without legalizing growing, it's hypocrisy by a different name. ironically enough, it's still 'illegal' to grow in Holland, though the town of Einhoven is considering officially legalizing it to grow it themselves so they can cut down on organizing crime monopolizing the supply to the coffee shops.
and it's not as easy to grow as some may think it is, unless you're willing to spend a ton of cashish to buy synthetic fertilizer to ensure that your plants are all female. and you better believe that most of the stuff being sold right now in America is chock full of estrogen.
which is why the bankers don't wanna touch it. brings them a little close to home, where the mother of reckoning sleeps.
You guys may think this is funny, but it's not. Pull the trigger, and legalize already. The only arguements left in favor of prohibition are absolutely moronic.
The DXY has broken support btw. DXY 75.66
If this topic makes you angry, you ain't smoking enough of it.
The all knowing eye, has a point. /i\
Naughty Tennessee chicks. ;)
Good doggie [Scrathes behind ears which is no form of punishment at all].
I have not heard back from my congress corker as of yet! I am stuck, being awake, way too late. What else to do but be a smartass where it is marginally acceptable?
You're right. I'm not smoking enough of it these days, though it's not from a lack of desire. You might better understand my frustration if you had lived through what I have. Zero tolerance and ignorance destroys lives. My patience for corruption, lies, fraud, and propaganda spewed in the face of logic, common sense, and rationality is at an end. It's all fun and games till people get hurt.
"My patience for corruption, lies, fraud, and propaganda spewed in the face of logic, common sense, and rationality is at an end."
It's a bit long for a bumper sticker, but damn that says it all. A hemp T-shirt perhaps?
.
Sorry. Not gonna happen. The MAN makes more tax revenue in the policing/courts/prison system (jobs) by having pot be illegal than any easy sales tax would garnish on decriminalization.
It's too easy to grow! Brewing beer/running a still is a ton of work to produce in volume -or it requires capital and licensing/permits/tax. Watering house plants once a week is not much work at all. The underground market would rule the day, and overall tax revenue would decline as a result.
That is exactly why pot/hemp (male or female) is illegal and will remain so -as long as politicians are concerned about tax revenue. The MAN figured this game out way back when and they're not gonna change strategies anytime soon.
.
.
Sorry. Not gonna happen. The MAN makes more tax revenue in the policing/courts/prison system (jobs) by having pot be illegal than any easy sales tax would garnish on decriminalization.
It's too easy to grow! Brewing beer/running a still is a ton of work to produce in volume -or it requires capital and licensing/permits/tax. Watering house plants once a week is not much work at all. The underground market would rule the day, and overall tax revenue would decline as a result.
That is exactly why pot/hemp (male or female) is illegal and will remain so -as long as politicians are concerned about tax revenue. The MAN figured this game out way back when and they're not gonna change strategies anytime soon.
.
"Smokin!"
Weed is OK , it affects everyone differently like money. I would like to corral all the greedy a-holes and bankers around Wall st , give em LSD and make them watch the New Michael Moore movie. Then they would know how many holes it take to fill the Wall St halls.
Marihuana just suits me fine on a quiet evening with my GF and a good movie, and maybe some chocolate for the munchies.
I live in Zürich, know a guy who brings it round like pizza delivery. May still be illegal but I don't really care - Swiss police students revolted a couple of years back when asked to lock up dope smokers.
I agree with the comment above about a fall in pot prices.
Where I live, lots of people are getting into the grow business. This, or day trading.
This new one-hit weed will really hurt taxable retail consumption. Better for your wallet, though, and won't stink up your clothes as much.
Used to smoke a MauiWowie dimebag at the frat house all Saturday morning while watching old Flash Gordon reruns on UHF. Then go for a mile bike ride without training wheels...an amazing feat.
Now it's one toke and a long nap.
So many states have already made the medical consumption legal, that it's already a lucrative business. My father owns a dispensary, for example.
Second, for 200 dollars, you too can get your card. I haven't done it yet because I don't want my name to be on some government list.
That bloomberg article with the coke dealers pointed out that ALCOHOL was the gateway drug to all that cocaine use, because cocaine allowed the bankers to drink all night. Interesting indeed.
I think that the tax estimates on pot were WAY underestimated. That's assuming that you only collect marginal taxes from the people that ADMIT to smoking it. Think about all the people that actually do.
Also, you could tax the hell out of it and still make it cheaper, once you remove the criminal elements from production and distribution.
You could have people making 8 dollars an hour managing hydro farms, and walmart selling it at razor thin margins, instead of Tony Montana buying an arsenal and security system with his profits.
Having lived in SF during the medical legalization period and watchin the feds with their riot gear busting down doors and dragging people into the street all I can say is good luck California. I'm convinced we will *never* see any amount of marijuanna made legal in the US.
As this gets traction in the news get ready for all the tv and radio talk show stories of pot crazed gansters raping teen girls and committing horrifying crimes while "hopped up on dope". On the other hand, I'm sure domino's pizza would support the cause....
bill maher, chris hitchens, salman rushdie & mos def on the hypocrisies of prohibition:
http://bit.ly/162x4