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Guest Post: Years Of The Modern

Tyler Durden's picture


Submitted by Jim Quinn of The Burning Platform

Years Of The Modern

Is humanity forming en-masse? for lo, tyrants tremble, crowns grow dim,
The earth, restive, confronts a new era, perhaps a general divine war,
No one knows what will happen next, such portents fill the days and

Years prophetical! the space ahead as I walk, as I vainly try to
pierce it, is full of phantoms,

Unborn deeds, things soon to be, project their shapes around me,
This incredible rush and heat, this strange ecstatic fever of dreams
O years! – Years of the Modern
- Walt Whitman

The great American poet Walt Whitman wrote these words in 1859.
Whitman was trying to peer into a future of uncertainty. He was sure the
future would be bleak. He had visions of phantoms. Maybe he saw the
600,000 souls who would lose their lives in the next six years. Whitman
had captured the mood of a country entering the Fourth Turning.
He didn’t know what would happen, but he felt the beat of war drums in
the distance. Whitman did not have the benefit of historical perspective
that we have today.

There have been three Fourth Turnings in American History.
The American Revolution Fourth Turning ended in 1794 with the Crisis
mood easing with the presidency of George Washington. Whitman didn’t
realize that, 64 years after the previous Fourth Turning, the mood of
the country was ripe for revolution and the sweeping away of the old
order. When the stock market crashed in 1929, 64 years after the
exhausting conclusion to the Civil War Fourth Turning, Americans didn’t
realize the generational constellation was propelling them toward a new
social order and a horrific world war. It is now 66 years since the
conclusion of the Depression/WWII Fourth Turning. All indications are
that the current Fourth Turning began in the 2007 – 2009, with the collapse of the housing market and the ensuing financial system implosion.

I find myself vainly trying to pierce the veil of events yet to be.
The future is filled with haunting phantoms of unborn deeds which could
lead to renewed glory, untold death and destruction, or the possibly the
end of the great American experiment. Walt Whitman captured the change
of mood in the country with his poem. History books are filled
with dates and descriptions of events, battles, speeches and
assassinations. What most people don’t understand is Fourth Turnings
aren’t about events, but about the citizens’ reaction to the events.

The Boston Massacre did not start the American Revolution Fourth
Turning, but the Boston Tea Party did. John Brown’s attack on Harper’s
Ferry did not start the Civil War Fourth Turning, but the election of
Abraham Lincoln did. World War I did not start the Great
Depression/World War II Fourth Turning, but the 1929 Stock Market Crash
did. The 9/11 terrorist attack did not start latest Fourth Turning, but
the Wall Street induced housing/financial system collapse did. In each
instance, the generations were aligned in a manner that would lead to a
sweeping away of the old civic order and a regeneracy with the
institution of a new order.   Old Artists disappear, Prophets enter
elder hood, Nomads enter midlife, Heroes enter young adulthood—and a new
generation of child Artists is born.  


One hundred and fifty years ago this week Fort Sumter was bombarded
by upstart revolutionaries attempting to break away from an overbearing
Federal government based in Washington D.C. Exactly four years later the
butchery and death concluded dramatically with Robert E. Lee
surrendering to Ulysses S. Grant at Appomattox and the assassination of
Abraham Lincoln by John Wilkes Booth at Ford’s Theatre. For the next
four years we will celebrate the 150th anniversary of various battles
that marked the Civil War. What people will not consider are the
similarities between that tumultuous period in our history and the
period we are in today. Fourth Turnings are marked by different events
but the same mood of upheaval, anger and fury.

As Strauss & Howe note in their book, the morphology of a Fourth Turning follows a predictable pattern:

  • A Crisis era begins with a catalyst – a starting event (or sequence of events) that produces a sudden shift in mood.
  • Once catalyzed, a society achieves a regeneracy – a new counter entropy that reunifies and reenergizes civic life.
  • The regenerated society propels toward a climax – a crucial moment that confirms the death of the old order and birth of the new.
  • The climax culminates in a resolution – a triumphant or
    tragic conclusion that separates the winners from losers, resolves the
    big public questions, and establishes the new order. 

Strauss & Howe describe the normal sequence:

This Crisis morphology occurs over the span of one turning, which
(except for the U.S. Civil War) means that around fifteen to
twenty-five years elapse between the catalyst and the resolution. The
regeneracy usually occurs one to five years after the era begins, the
climax one to five years before it ends.

The catalysts are relatively easy to identify, but the point of regeneracy is more subtle and harder to grasp.

Fiery Moment of Death & Discontinuity

“Like nature, history is full of processes that cannot happen in
reverse. Just as the laws of entropy do not allow a bird to fly
backward, or droplets to regroup at the top of a waterfall, history has
no rewind button. Like the seasons of nature, it moves only forward.
Saecular entropy cannot be reversed. An Unraveling cannot lead back to
an Awakening, or forward to a High, without a Crisis in between. The
spirit of America comes once a saeculum, only through what the ancients
called ekpyrosis, nature’s fiery moment of death and discontinuity.
History’s periodic eras of Crisis combust the old social order and give
birth to a new.”
Strauss & Howe – The Fourth Turning



The catalyst for the American Revolution was the Boston Tea Party.
The catalyst for the Civil War was the election of Abraham Lincoln. The
catalyst for the Great Depression was the 1929 Stock market crash. The
catalyst for the current Crisis was the housing/financial system
collapse. The catalyst is an event that terminates the brooding mood of
the Unraveling and unleashes the fury of a Crisis. The three previous
Crisis periods in American history were driven by different events, but
similar generational dynamics. By closely examining the dynamics and
threats that were facing the country during these previous Crisis
periods, we may be able to peer into the murky fog of the future and
make out the phantoms of events to come. What we know for sure is every
previous Crisis had an economic and fairness dimension that provided the
initial spark, triggering a series of events that eventually led to an
all encompassing war for survival.

American Revolution - The economic dimension that
led to the onset of the American Revolution can be summed up in the
rallying cry of the colonists, “No Taxation, Without
Representation.”  The British felt that the colonies were created to be
used in the way that best suited the crown and parliament. The French
& Indian War left the British Empire deeply in debt. They responded
by demanding more revenue from the colonies. The British Parliament
continued to pass taxation Acts which became increasingly onerous to the
independent minded American colonists:

  • Sugar Act – 1764
  • Currency Act – 1765
  • Stamp Act – 1765
  • Townshend Acts – 1767
  • Tea Act – 1773

The increasing levels of taxation and control resulted in the
formation of Committees of Correspondence and the Sons of Liberty.
Samuel Adams, Thomas Paine and the other firebrands led the movement for
independence. The colonists grew increasingly angry with the heavy
handedness and harshness of the British Monarchy. These incidents and
actions solidified the mood for independence: 

  • Quartering Act – 1765
  • Boston Massacre – 1770
  • Intolerable Acts – 1774 

As you can see there were years of economic and political turmoil
before the Boston Tea Party catalyst event ignited the revolution. The
mood of enough citizens had shifted as the generational alignment no
longer allowed for compromise. In the end, the increase of economic
restrictions and limiting of freedom led to the revolution. As a side
note, a Fourth Turning does not need a majority to be initiated. Only
one-third of the colonists actively supported the rebellion.

American Civil War - The economic dimension that
drove the dynamics of the Civil War related to the Southern agrarian
society based upon growing cotton and the rapidly industrializing North
with its cities and manufacturing prowess. The invention of the cotton
gin led to many more plantations in the South depending solely on cotton
to support their way of life. Cotton farming required vast amounts of
cheap human labor, and slaves fit the bill. Abolitionists in the North
had the moral high ground as Southern plantation owners treated human
beings as property. Attitudes became more intense after the publication
of  Uncle Tom’s Cabin,
the Dred Scott Decision, and the John Brown raid on Harper’s Ferry. The
issue of slavery had been boiling beneath the surface since the
adoption of the US Constitution. Various compromises had been struck
over the years to keep the issue at bay:  

  • Missouri Compromise
  • Compromise of 1850
  • Kansas – Nebraska Act

These economic and human rights issues became wrapped in the mantle
of states’ rights and the struggle between the Federal government and
State governments. The battle reached back to the earliest days of the
Republic between Jefferson and Hamilton.  Many felt that the new
constitution ignored the rights of states to continue to act
independently. They felt the states should still have the right to
decide if they were willing to accept certain federal acts. This
resulted in the idea of nullification, whereby the states would have the
right to rule federal acts unconstitutional. The federal government
denied states this right. With the election of Abraham Lincoln, the
Southern states saw a man who was against slavery, believed in a strong
Federal government, and supporter of the industrial North. The years of
compromise were over. The firebrand prophet generation took control in
Washington DC and Richmond Virginia. A fight to the finish was

Great Depression/World War II – The economic
dimension that drove the onset of this Crisis was the unbridled greed
and speculation of Wall Street banks. The easy money policies of the
Federal Reserve, formed in secret and voted into existence on Christmas
Eve with many members of Congress not present created the Roaring 20′s.
While farmers struggled to survive on the drought stricken plains and
the average person lived a hard scrabble existence, the banking elite
reaped obscene profits, with the top 1% sucking 23.9% of all the
national income – the highest level in U.S. history.

The 1920′s were a time of cultural decay, decadence and disillusionment. This mood was reflected in F. Scott Fitzgerald’s The Great Gatsby.
As we know too well, every boom eventually goes bust. The bust came in
October 1929, with a stock market crash. Stockholders lost $40 billion.
The market dropped 89% over a two year period. By 1933, 11,000 of the
25,000 banks in the US had failed. These were mostly small regional
banks. The major NY banks such as JP Morgan and Mellon became more
powerful. The artificial interference in the economy by the Federal
government and Federal Reserve was a disaster prior to the Depression,
and government efforts to prop up the economy after the crash of 1929
only made things worse. Passage of the Smoot-Hawley tariffs spread the
depression around the world. The economic hardship in Germany led to the
election of Adolf Hitler and set the stage for a future war that would
kill 65 million people. FDR’s New Deal programs crowded out private
industry and resulted in unemployment staying at levels exceeding 15%
for an entire decade. Keynesian government spending prolonged the
depression and put into place social programs that set in motion the
debt bomb that threatens the country today.   

Force Advancing with Irresistible Power 

I see not America only, not only Liberty’s nation but other nations

I see tremendous entrances and exits, new combinations, the solidarity
of races,

I see that force advancing with irresistible power on the world’s stage,
(Have the old forces, the old wars, played their parts? are the acts
suitable to them closed?)

I see Freedom, completely arm’d and victorious and very haughty,
with Law on one side and Peace on the other,

A stupendous trio all issuing forth against the idea of caste;
What historic denouements are these we so rapidly approach?
I see men marching and countermarching by swift millions,
I see the frontiers and boundaries of the old aristocracies broken,
I see the landmarks of European kings removed,
I see this day the People beginning their landmarks, (all others give

Never were such sharp questions ask’d as this day,
Never was average man, his soul, more energetic, more like a God,

Years of the Modern- Walt Whitman



Walt Whitman foresaw vast armies on the march and old orders being
swept away by the historic denouements that were rapidly approaching.
But even he couldn’t have foreseen the butchery and tragic deaths of
over 600,000 men in the next four bloody years. The economic dimensions
of the current Crisis were foreseeable at least a decade before the
Crisis arrived. The Federal Reserve, under the “wise” supervision of
former Ayn Rand disciple Alan Greenspan, progressively blew one bubble
after another through its easy money policies. The Greenspan Put allowed
the Wall Street vampire squids to suck the life out of the American
economic system without fear of being harpooned for taking financial
system endangering leveraged bets. The financial oligarchs used their
influence, power and vast wealth to repeal Glass-Steagall, capture and
buy off the rating agencies, neuter the SEC and other regulatory
agencies and place their executives in high level government positions.
The ruling wealthy elite again matched their peak take of the national
income, just as they did in 1928.


The debt, fraud and lack of financial regulation that catalyzed the
near collapse of the worldwide financial system in 2008, 63 years after
the end of the last Fourth Turning, have not been purged from the
system. In fact, those in power have decided more debt, accounting fraud
and financial ignorance is the path to recovery for America. The issues
which will be the driving forces during this Crisis are clear to anyone
with their eyes open:

  • A National Debt the will approach $20 trillion by 2015 and has already surpassed 90% of GDP, the point of no return.
  • Annual deficits exceeding $1.5 trillion and equal to over 10% of GDP.
  • The unfunded promises made by slimy politicians over decades for
    Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security exceeds $100 trillion and can
    never be paid. 
  • A military industrial complex that controls Congress, is fighting
    three wars, occupies hundreds of bases throughout the world and spends
    $1 trillion per year, seven times more than any other country in the
  • A financial industry debt peddling complex that has gained control
    over the government and media to such an extent they have been able to
    rape and pillage the American people for three decades, convincing
    regulatory agencies to allow them 40 to 1 leverage, crashing the
    financial system through a massive mortgage/derivatives fraudulent ponzi
    scheme, threatening the American people into giving them $4 trillion of
    taxpayer money, paying themselves hundreds of billions in bonuses for a
    job well done, and then insisting on lower taxes for their corporations
    and the rich oligarchs who inhabit these towers of evil in downtown
  • Wealthy elite who use their existing wealth to control Congress, the
    media and the financial debt peddling industry, abscond with 25% of the
    national income and control 42% of the financial wealth in the country.
    At the same time real wages of middle class Americans have been
    stagnant for 4 decades, real unemployment exceeds 20%, 45 million people
    need food stamps to make ends meet, and real inflation on the things
    middle class Americans need hovers around 10%. The gap between the Haves
    and Have Nots has never been greater.


  • The Federal Reserve has boxed itself into a corner and will be
    unable to extricate itself with its only weapon – the printing press. It
    has tripled the size of its balance sheet to $2.7 trillion, with at
    least half of the “assets” consisting of toxic worthless mortgages
    bought from their Wall Street masters. 0% interest rates for two and a
    half years, QE1 and QE2, and allowing banks to fraudulently report the
    value of their loans have failed to jumpstart the economy. Come June of
    2011 they will be faced with a dilemma – PRINT or DIE. If they stop
    buying U.S. Treasury debt, interest rates will go up dramatically. If
    they keep printing to buy U.S. Treasury debt, the dollar will continue
    to fall and inflation will accelerate from its already high level.
  • The biggest wildcard among the Fourth Turning catalysts is Peak Oil.
    The modern industrial world is completely dependent upon cheap
    accessible oil. Globalization, consumerism, suburban sprawl, food
    production and distribution, and all means of transportation are
    dependent upon cheap abundant oil. Peak world oil production has
    occurred. Demand will outstrip supply going forward at an ever
    increasing rate. Various levels of chaos will ensue as the realization
    of this fact becomes evident to everyone.
  • The peak oil scenario will mix with the toxic brew of religion. The
    centuries old war between Christianity and Islam has been gaining
    strength over the last three decades. The revolutions spreading across
    the Middle East will not die down. They will intensify and create havoc
    for the existing despotic regimes. The new regimes will not be friendly
    towards the U.S. The combination of peak oil, with the fact that 56% of
    the world’s oil reserves are controlled by Muslim countries in the
    Middle East provides an unsettling backdrop for the U.S., which controls
    less than 2% of the world’s oil reserves. 


  • The technological complexity and interconnectedness of people across
    the world is a danger and a possible boon to civilization. Our entire
    world is dependent upon computers and networks to run our
    infrastructure, defense, commerce, and everyday lives. Armies, naval
    ships, and massed confrontation will be made obsolete by cyber warfare.
    Computer hackers will be able to do more damage to a country in minutes
    than armies could do in years of traditional warfare. The trillions the
    US spends on aircraft carriers, fighter jets and tanks will be wasted.
    The positive side of technology has been realized in its ability to
    organize people to fight oppression and government propaganda.
    Likeminded people have been able to use technology to seek and reveal
    the truth.

The initial stage of this Fourth Turning has run its course. The
catalyst was easy to recognize. The issues that confront the nation over
the next twenty years are clear. What is completely unclear to me is
how our fractured society achieves a regeneracy – a new
counterentropy that reunifies and reenergizes civic life. The regeneracy
usually occurs one to five years after the Crisis era begins. This
means that the country would need to reunify and begin to confront our
challenges by 2013. Regeneracy began with the Declaration of
Independence during the American Revolution. Regeneracy began with
Abraham Lincoln demanding the enlistment of 500,000 men after the Battle
of Bull Run. Regeneracy began with FDR’s New Deal programs in 1933
during the Great Depression. What will begin the Regeneracy this time? 

Something Wicked This Way Comes 

“Decisive events will occur – events so vast, powerful, and
unique that they lie beyond today’s wildest hypothesis. These events
will inspire great documents and speeches, visions of a new political
order being framed. People will discover a hitherto unimagined capacity
to fight and die, and to let their children fight and die, for a
communal cause. The Spirit of America will return, because there will be
no other choice. Thus will Americans reenact the great ancient myth of
the ekpyrosis. Thus will we achieve our next rendezvous with destiny.” -
Strauss & Howe – The Fourth Turning


The storyline promulgated by the mainstream linear thinking opinion
leaders is the economy is recovering, the banking system is sound, the
stock market is booming, buying a house is a great investment, inflation
is below 2%,  jobs are being created, and consumers have regained their
confidence and spending power. This message is hammered home on a daily
basis by the corporate run mainstream media. It is patently false and
the thinking members of the American public know it. The economic
condition of the country is rapidly deteriorating. While politicians
posture and lie to the citizens, the fissures in our financial system
grow wider. As of today, regeneracy and unification behind one common
national purpose seems light years away. Strauss & Howe speculated
in 1997 about potential events that could spur events during the next
Fourth Turning. One of their possible scenarios looms in the near

  • An impasse over the federal budget reaches a stalemate. The
    president and Congress both refuse to back down, triggering a near-total
    government shutdown. The president declares emergency powers. Congress
    rescinds his authority. Dollar and bond prices plummet. The president
    threatens to stop Social Security checks. Congress refuses to raise the
    debt ceiling. Default looms. Wall Street panics. 

The event necessary to cause a regeneracy in this country will need
to be on an epic scale. Based upon a review of the foreseeable issues
confronting our society it is clear to me that a worse financial
implosion will strike before the 2012 presidential election. It may be
triggered by a debt ceiling confrontation, the ending of QE2, a panic
out of the USD, hyperinflation, a surge in oil prices, or some
combination of these possibilities. The ensuing collapse of the stock
and bond markets will remove the last vestiges of trust in the existing
financial system and the government bureaucrats who have taken taxpayer
dollars and funneled them to these Wall Street oligarchs.

The economic chaos will likely lead to a Republican landslide in the
2012 election. A Boomer Prophet with a reputation for fixing financial
disasters (aka Mitt Romney) would be given a mandate to fix the economic
system. All generations will realize that generational promises made
cannot be fulfilled. People of a libertarian mindset, like me, will not
be happy with the turn of events. In a chaotic scenario, the Federal
government is likely to assume even more power than they have today. The
American people will be fearful and angry. If the financial criminals
on Wall Street are brought to justice, the chances of a unified populace
will increase. A drop in everyone’s standard of living would be
acceptable, as long as the rich shared equally in the burden. If the
super wealthy oligarchs retain their power, a fracturing along class
lines would become a distinct possibility. Social unrest, riots, and
violent protests along the lines of the current situation in the Middle
East could develop. Then a question of military use against the civilian
population becomes paramount to what would happen next.

Amidst the financial chaos will be the ever present peak oil issue.
The increasingly high prices and imminent shortages of supply will
exacerbate the pain for the American people. The current War on Terror
is really a cover for keeping American troops in the Middle East as a
forward vanguard to keep the oil flowing. The U.S. consumes 7 billion
barrels of oil per year and will use all means necessary to keep it
flowing. With a Boomer Prophet leader invoking American manifest
destiny, it is likely we will intervene to protect Saudi Arabia, Iraq,
and Kuwait in the name of democracy. A terrorist incident in the U.S.
would provide convenient cover for further intervention in the Middle
East. As with most wars the unintended consequences will overwhelm the
best laid plans of politicians and generals. Further U.S. intervention
into an already exploding Middle East will likely spur a larger conflict
between Islam and Christianity. Ground zero could shift to Europe as
millions of Muslims have settled there and will not react positively to
western powers siphoning oil from Islamic countries in the name of
Christianity. History has taught us that Fourth Turnings end in all out
war. The outcome of wars is always in doubt. 

“History offers more sobering warnings: Armed confrontation
usually occurs around the climax of Crisis. If there is confrontation,
it is likely to lead to war. This could be any kind of war – class war,
sectional war, war against global anarchists or terrorists, or
superpower war. If there is war, it is likely to culminate in total war,
fought until the losing side has been rendered nil – its will broken,
territory taken, and leaders captured. And if there is total war, it is
likely that the most destructive weapons available will be deployed.” -
Strauss & Howe – The Fourth Turning

“Each of the last three American Crises produced moments of
extreme danger: In the Revolution, the very birth of the republic hung
by a thread in more than one battle. In the Civil War, the union barely
survived a four-year slaughter that in its own time was reagrded as the
most lethal war in history. In World War II, the nation destroyed an
enemy of democracy that for a time was winning; had the enemy won,
America might have itself been destroyed. In all likelihood, the next
Crisis will present the nation with a threat and a consequence on a
similar scale.” -
Strauss and Howe – The Fourth Turning

It may be 150 years since Walt Whitman foresaw the imminent march of
armies, visions of unborn deeds, and a sweeping away of the old order,
but history has brought us right back to where we started. Immense
challenges and threats await our nation. Will we face them with the
courage and fortitude of our forefathers? Or will we shrink from our
responsibility to future unborn generations? The drumbeat of history
grows louder. Our rendezvous with destiny beckons.


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Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:06 | 1178560 makeyoumiss
makeyoumiss's picture

Doesn't matter who is elected. We're far beyond that point.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:06 | 1178641 flacon
flacon's picture

> "A drop in everyone’s standard of living would be acceptable, as long as the rich shared equally in the burden."

My complaint with the article is the term "the rich". What does "rich" mean? That term "the rich" comes across like the mealy-mouthed envious socialists who always complain about "the rich" or "level the playing field" (make everyone poor so that nobody can get ahead because that would be a sin).

I know what the author is trying to say, but the word "rich" used in this context is like scraping fingernails across the blackboard. Just stick to the real word: "KLEPTOCRACY" (gains by theft). We do NOT want to punish the "rich" (presumably in order to "redistribute wealth"), we want to punsh the THIEVES who stole it on purpose and caused the poverty in the first place! I have no problem with capital punishment for those who stole the wealth - then after their bodies have been paraded about the streets we can talk about "redistributing their 'wealth'". 


On a side note: Robin Hood did not "steal from the rich to give to the poor", he stole from those KLEPTOCRATS who taxed the middle-class into abject poverty and then he returned the wealth to the people. Robin Hood is not a villian, he is a hero. 


Let's just refrain from going after "the rich" - some of us EARNED our money (or even honestly inherited it). Keynes warns about this hatred of "the rich" - partly because the peasant class realized that they had been duped. But stupidity needs to be punished, perhaps by self-imposed death depending on how stupid people are. 


Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:25 | 1178712 monopoly
monopoly's picture

flacon. Excellent point. When I see the phrase "rich", I do not think of those that have earned wealth by doing good either for society or accompanied by pure genius. I do not abhor the "Gates" family for their billions, or Steve Jobs, or those that have moved medical science into positive streams. What irks me is when Mozillo has hundreds of millions for screwing people, or Blankfien takes a 15 million bonus, does shit for this planet and is worth hundreds of millions. The scabs at Bear Sterns, Reynolds, the banksters, well, you get the point. That is where I puke. When you have stolen from the masses, without caring and have wealth because of fraud, abuse and theft, THAT is the kind of "rich" I despise.

That to me is where the author is coming from. Those that have earned or inherited what they have honestly, they can sleep well at night.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:13 | 1178815 Tater Salad
Tater Salad's picture

monopoly, you say..."The scabs at Bear Sterns, Reynolds, the banksters, well, you get the point"

At the risk of sounding like CNN, you should choose your words carefully.  First off, there are plenty of honest bankers on this planet, as well as plenty that are scrote suckers.  Your generalization however, is very dangerous, you might as well start to generalize minorities because you're in the same parallel.  Crooks are crooks, we have them now, always have and always will.  I too despise people, of no specific origin, that go through life each and every day saying one thing and doing another.  Let's be careful though how much we generalize a populous as it has done very bad things to our country already and I'm sure will do more in years to come. 

And as for the Tyler(s) calling for revolution, he/they too should be more careful.  Remember, our teleprompter in chief is all for the middle estern melt down (on a selective basis) and look at Egypt now.  MUCH worse shape than when Mubarik was running the joint.  If our government ever falls, your beloved zero hedge will be non existent and you will have NO rights, NONE!  Soooo, revolution....potty talk, no more, no less.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 21:59 | 1178976 Thorny Xi
Thorny Xi's picture

Re: Bankers -- I have a good friend who, in order to preserve his anonymity, I'll describe as a "retired, very, very senior position holder" with the Bank of America, before and during the early part of the NationsBank era.  He and I were talking about the bank not long ago, but he grew visibly irritated and cut the discussion short with the terse comments, "These guys today, they are not bankers. They are just not bankers at all. They give banking a bad smell. Really, there's nothing they do that even resembles banking, which was once a fairly decent profession." 

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 22:32 | 1179026 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

and mitt romney looks and acts way too much like a banker and a slick one to get the nomination, imo.  his track record for solving economic problems (other than his own) seems no more convincing than barack obama's as a professor of constitutional law, or as a community organizer for that matter.  

imo the guy with history at his back is ron paul.  he is the closest to the truth in his criticism of the current business/government control fraud.  and he has a good vantage point to make his critique real as he interviews bernanke, et. al. from the monetary policy subcommittee in the house.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 08:31 | 1179695 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture


hear hear..

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:21 | 1178718 ParaZite
ParaZite's picture

The term Rich, used to be easily defined. A millionaire is arguably rich today, but a good stay in a hospital or a legal battle will quickly plunge him or her to middle class status. So, I propose that only the upper 2 to 5 percent are now, really rich... Those with incomes and networth in the billion dollar range should be somewhat financially solvent. We now have basically two classes in the US... The Rich, and the poor or soon to be poor.  Even millionaires are now one lawsuit, illness or scandal away from financial ruin.

The Rich aka Kleptocrats... and the poor. 

The Poor are now the unemployed / homeless poor. The working poor. The formerly middle class poor. The almost foreclosed but working 3 jobs for a shitty wage poor. The will work for food poor... and the poor keep growing in numbers each day. 

The poor far outnumber the rich, but the laws of our nation, and are supposedly representing representatives only represent of those top 2 or 5% of the nations interest. The laws of this nation will throw the poor into the hell holes of prison for stealing a dollar or a bottle of baby formula, yet will protect Goldman Sachs who stole billions of dollars. 

Yet, the poor suffer in quite desperation, without so much as raising a hand at those who stole their American dreams and left them laying, homeless on the land their forefathers conquered.


Our politicians and our presidents do not protect us from these ravenous wolves, rather participate and even revel in throwing us further to the beasts of private banking. The collapse of 2008 has revealed the truth of Jefferson's warning that if America ever allows itself to be controlled by foreign banks and corporations, we Americans will wake up homeless on the very land our forefathers conquered.


Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:49 | 1178846 Mark McGoldrick
Mark McGoldrick's picture

The economic chaos will likely lead to a Republican landslide in the 2012 election. A Boomer Prophet with a reputation for fixing financial disasters (aka Mitt Romney) would be given a mandate to fix the economic system...

What a complete fucking joke! Is everyone FUCKING NUTS? Is there any sanity left in this country?

Mitt Romney is a cardboard cutout of American elitism, defender of the top 1%.  He's an Ivy League, corporate and political plutocrat who got rich through leveraged buyouts and slashing middle-class American jobs, while reaping millions for himself. Other than Donald Trump or Michael Bloomberg, is it even possible to find someone more detached from 99% of the American population?

Then, to suggest a Republican will be elected to solve the financial chaos....

.....i don't even know where to begin.

The author of this article is either a political whore, or has undergone a full frontal lobotomy, coupled with retrograde amnesia that began January 20, 2009. 

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 21:15 | 1178899 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

I see the prediction as fairly likely.  Basically: YES, everyone is fucking nuts.  NO, there is no sanity left.

If the economy continues to collapse for the next year, Obama's out.  The largest chunk of the electorate is not well-informed about what's happening in the world of government spending, international finance, foreign affairs, etc.  Plenty of people will get up and vote because they're unhappy with the events of the past few years, without bothering to try to plot correlations between what they think were the current administration's policies and the mechanics of their misery.

But who cares?  It's not like Obama's done anything GOOD, is it?  I mean, if you're a Democrat and just want "your guy" in office, fine, but look at his policies and decisions.  He hasn't done anything he promised, the economy still sucks, and the population is as bitterly divided (for total bullshit reasons) as ever.

As the Titanic sank, did it matter what the band was playing?

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:27 | 1179280 Seer
Seer's picture

Very well stated!

Sadly, I've seen way too much of the "vote the bums" out mentality even here in these forums.  Actions not grounded in the fundamentals are little different than those undertaken with ill intent.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 02:25 | 1179338 RichardP
RichardP's picture

For those who believed in God, it did.  Do you know what the band was playing as the proles were about to meet their maker?

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 21:58 | 1178901 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

A splash of sanity in a sea of Tea Party mythology... thank you MM!

(and no junks yet... maybe they're off mourning Glenn's

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 22:10 | 1178998 fiddler_on_the_roof
fiddler_on_the_roof's picture

100% right.
Romney is the elite of the elites.
Go Huckabee - the only candidate who represents poor people.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 22:28 | 1179021 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Huckabee? That religious nut? No thank you very much. Not to mention he's a big zionist stooge.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 08:32 | 1179693 HellFish
HellFish's picture

Huckabee is the reason we have bambi in the White House.  Had he left the primary when it was obvious he had no chance he would have allowed Romney to beat McCain.  Now I'm no Romney fan but he had a much better chance at beating bambi then McCain did.  Thanks Huck - ya fat jackass.

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 00:49 | 1182955 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I had the dubious honor of being an Arkansas resident under the reign of Huckabee's governorship.   You DO NOT want this dweeb any where near a chair of power.  He is one of the cretins who raised his hand at the Republican "debates" as one who did not belive in evolution.  He's a creationist and a dangerous one who will teach it to your children under duress.  He needs to be lost in a desert someplace, left to wander aimlessly forever.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 22:36 | 1179029 Michael
Michael's picture

I just thank God the complete and total economic collapse of the USA and the world will spare no one. If a nuclear war is what the kleptocrats want, a nuclear war is what we will give them. I say bring it on. We will go down the same road as every other great civilization that preceded ours. The Bush/Obama Nazi police state is firmly in place for the end game, a clear sign of falls that always proceed like this one in the last days.

I love witnessing the end of civilizations and I would not have changed a thing on how we got here. It was my not so clear intention to push economic systems to the extreme of their breaking point for maximum effect, while on the surface advocating for a sound monetary system. I understand how a sound monetary system should operate, but challenging the controllers to the extreme, well, made them do exactly as I had intended.  Doing It was like the TV airheads, saying one thing while thinking another pushing for global government. It's a mind trick they play on us, I just did it back to them in reverse.  Our system cannot be fixed without inflicting maximum pain for everyone involved, and I helped make sure of that so everybody will get exactly what they deserve, that means all of us. No one here gets out alive, and that means no one! Thinking about political systems at this point is a futile exercise. Perhaps a few years ago when we had a chance to elect Dr Ron Paul, but now it's too late.  All you proles got to learn to live with what's coming to you.

The only way to avoid complete and total destruction is to put a bullet in every Kleptocrats and controllers heads, and do it soon if you want to save any shred of what you have as a civilization.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:37 | 1179289 Seer
Seer's picture

Only quibble I have is with the notion that there can be ANY "sound monetary system" when the environment under which ANY such system were to operate is, itself, a huge fucking Ponzi: radically changing the appearance of runaway train doesn't solve the fundamental problem that it's a runaway train- yeah, here it comes... as long as the fundamental is that of perpetual growth (on this here finite planet) EVERYTING is certain to fail; having a nifty paint job on the train is nifty, but it's plastered on a train that's heading into the abyss.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 23:01 | 1179063 malek
malek's picture

Ahem. To be in the upper 5% income class, you have to make about $180,000 a year.
That may make you well off, but not rich, especially as the best paid jobs are mostly in high living cost areas. Actually a fair number of those earners managed to save close to nothing despite of years making that money, and even very frugal types would need 20 years to save a million (and in those 2 decades the dollar will have lost 75% of its worth, so hopefully they don't keep their savings in cash.)

So maybe you want to review that "2 to 5 percent" number once more.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:45 | 1179216 bmwm395
bmwm395's picture

180,000  in income may put you in the top 5% for "income". But unless you made some incredible investments over the years you are not close to top 5% in terms of "wealth".

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:46 | 1179299 malek
malek's picture

Looked at it that way, most of the "rich" must be within the retirees group...

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:38 | 1179292 Seer
Seer's picture

Yeah, I get it that it's all relative, but... 2/3 of the world's population lives off of $3/day or less.  Kind of changes the perspective...

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:22 | 1178719 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture
Anarchy erupts in Greece as austerity bites


These people have a clue. The comments also are informative and telling.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 21:59 | 1178981 Malachi Constant
Malachi Constant's picture

Anarchy cannot erupt, because "anarchy" means one's own ultimate authority on every issue and 100% responsibility for one's decisions. Labeling "aimless bursts of violence" as "anarchy" makes the latter look negative. This, in turn, keeps us all in a system where we are encouraged to vote for and pay to false messiahs to decide for us.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:49 | 1179306 Seer
Seer's picture

Amen!  Unfortunately, most libertarians eschew anarchism because it means that there won't be laws to protect their wealth/property; ironic it is (well, to me anyway) that one can on one hand identify that govts are corrupting forces and then on the other desire them to come to their aid to ensure that their "wealth" is protected.  The heart/desire is in the right place, but the logic fails...

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 00:58 | 1182964 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

One can understand the Greek situation by reading the book Z by Vassilis Vassilikos.  It was made into a movie which was very good.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:36 | 1178747 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

That's a good point, rich is also a relative term. 

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:18 | 1178820 Tater Salad
Tater Salad's picture

+10 Global

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:02 | 1178797 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

"Rich" is having enough resources that you don't worry about basic needs of food, water and shelter.

"Rich" is a wide net, indeed, and all of us here fall into it. All of us here will have to show and feel humility in these times, and stop justifying our wealth to those who are desperate in the absence of it.

The proper response is to give it to them freely, which goes against the grain, but is the solution to the disaster. We may practice this even now by various acts of "charity". Good training.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:10 | 1178811 Kickaha
Kickaha's picture

Sorry, but nobody earns a fortune by way of his own intelligence and industry.

If you went to a public school or public university; if your business utilizes the interstate or the postal service for deliveries; it you and your business grew in prosperity due to a strong police presence; if you ever filed any sort of insurance claim...your success to some considerable degree was achieved only because of the contributions of your fellow citizens.  The examples could go on and on.  Your hubris is astounding. 

The society within which you live so comfortably believes that free enterprise is a wonderful system to encourage private industry.  You have been encouraged to produce wealth, and allowed to keep most of it, but don't delude yourself into thinking this has happened because of some inherent natural right that cannot be assailed.  It is the result, instead, of a system of laws, and laws can and should be changed in times of need.

My own observations of a lifetime are that the very rich, even if they once worked very hard, generally have learned to relax a bit once they figure out a way to make their money work for them.  Syphoning off some excess funds when necessary via increased taxation will either have no effort, or cause them to become marginally more industrious once again.

Taxes are the price you pay to live within a civilized society.  "Fairness" is strictly a value judgment, a matter of opinion.  If it comes to life and death, those in the minority have the most to fear.


Mon, 04/18/2011 - 18:48 | 1182082 Paul E. Math
Paul E. Math's picture

This economy is a giant game of asshole.  If you win the first hand then the loser has to give you his 2 best cards and you give him your 2 worst.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:29 | 1178836 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

"Rich" means your standard of living can't be affected by whether you work or not.

There aren't many rich folks, but those who are have a good bit of money.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 03:17 | 1179378 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Rich. What is rich?

My wife and I both make 2.5 X the average in salaries.

We also have a nice nest egg which we saved after a decade of hard working.

Is that rich? I don't think so. But we do have more than the average person.

Somebody who has nothing might say: he's rich and in that point of view it's true.

What I mean is: Everybody who has something is rich compaired to somebody who has nothing.

Do we need to be taxes more so they can give to those who have nothing?

Should I feel guilty about the fact that we saved money and invested it wisely?

Should I feel guilty about the fact that we didn't spend it all?

In my point of view, somebody who has 5 million dollars sitting idle, has enough real estate to house a 50 people and has a side income of +500.000 a year is "rich".

But who am I to call him rich?












Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:30 | 1178837 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

Couldn't agree more. Not only does it not make any difference which candidate you vote for, after the election it becomes blatantly clear that they're no different from the one they replaced.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:11 | 1178563 AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

I'm not suggesting that Mr. Quinn is a plagiarist but I think someone wrote a similar article a few years back and called it The Book of Revelation

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:32 | 1178595 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Maybe Jim should try decaf. OTOH, maybe I should check the stash in my bunker. I had this odd thought: Our Thomas Paine and John Adams might be Mish and Denninger! Throw in some Max Keiser and Paul Farrell.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 23:23 | 1178725 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture


Reminds me. I was thinking of investing in some pre-radiation wines from the napa sonoma wine area. That way if the appreciation in the value isn't trade-able, it's drinkable and medicinal as well.

Pre-radiation stash...might be a better market there as well...

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:32 | 1178838 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

I'm suggesting it: he plagiarized the piece he wrote a few months ago.  Which, come to think of it, was plagiarization of the essay he'd written a few months before THAT.

Come to think of it, a significant chunk of his stuff that finds its way here is the same ode to that book he read once.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 21:48 | 1178957 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture


SmokeyQuinn = plagiarising whack-a-mole. 

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:13 | 1178568 Twindrives
Twindrives's picture

Bozo the Clown would be preferable to Obama the Ass Clown.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:31 | 1178605 yabyum
yabyum's picture

After that screed, I'll take Obama +8. I'll also take silver +40. As long as the foxwads push Trump, Bachman&Palin, the repubs will get murderded.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 21:10 | 1178894 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Moronic tea partiers for Trump on deck - please find another website to lurk in. 

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:13 | 1178569 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

help our elderly, the innocent who do not deserve any of this bullshit. ( Z.I.R.P. ).   please have empathy & do your best to help those who have been abandoned by their government.    the elderly will not make it without the love & support of their family, those lucky enough to have family.   

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:31 | 1178604 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Grandma we will go back to the old days where we watch the children and cook and clean for the family.  While they go out and do the laborus chores like chopping wood and tending the fields.

I actually think this will be good for the Country and will take us back to our roots. 

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:44 | 1178623 flacon
flacon's picture

It will be good for those who have stolen wealth their whole lives (having mortgages (pull-forward demand), investing in bonds (bonds of taxation-slavery), assuming that social security payments of their children's children will pay for their "golden years"). However for those who are smart, we will not regress in the coming years. 


There must be a penalty for stupidity, and that penalty is just about here.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:11 | 1178697 Creed
Creed's picture

having a mortgage that you pay for monthly for 30 years is stolen wealth?


buying bonds & receiving back principle + 5% is stealing?


 expecting to receive social security is stealing from the children? the same SS that we pay for via deductions on our paychecks? my wife and I have a combined 64 years of SS taxes paid into this thing, at 5% that's a sizeable sum we've paid into this system


you're an idiot




by flacon
on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:44


It will be good for those who have stolen wealth their whole lives (having mortgages (pull-forward demand), investing in bonds (bonds of taxation-slavery), assuming that social security payments of their children's children will pay for their "golden years"). However for those who are smart, we will not regress in the coming years. 


There must be a penalty for stupidity, and that penalty is just about here.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:01 | 1178789 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Yes, you are an idiot.

It's called work, and seizure of assets by a satanic system.

Always a Marxist wanting to steal from those who have paid their dues.


Mon, 04/18/2011 - 02:45 | 1179355 RichardP
RichardP's picture

DosZap - get real.  Has there ever been a civilization that did not seize assets to pay the expenses of the King?  This behavior predates Marx by thousands of years.  You have a thin grasp of human nature throughout history if you think anyone, anywhere, at any time in the past was able to go off and pay their dues and keep everything they collected.  The reality has always been that stronger bandits will plunder what they can, when they can, and take the fruits of your labor.  Protection from that reality is the fundamental reason why kings were needed throughout history.

You guys talk as though there has ever been a time when the general population got to keep 100% of the fruits of their effort.  Such a time has never existed, and will never exist.

Tue, 04/19/2011 - 01:00 | 1182971 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

That doesn't make it OK.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 21:20 | 1178910 robobbob
robobbob's picture

By government extortion, SS and medicare it was taken from us all. For that, you are owed every penny that you paid in.

However, add up the total that you have paid over all of these years. Now compare it to what your politicians have promised. SS, medicare. entitlements of all types. Have you really paid for all of that? Or is the earnings of future generations being stolen to cover your due share? It does not work. It cannot work. It is a Ponzi scheme that requires theft from the future. That is just not right. It will not stand. Reality will not be denied forever.

Bonds, of the Treasury debt financing type, are theft. Why is the US government paying to print its own currency? Why is the government spending more than it takes in? Who is receiving low interest loans backed by promises of your tax money? Even if in their benevolence the Fed refunds the interest, to whom are the overhead costs being paid?  And who's tax money is being taken to pay them? Who benefits from this system? That is why government debt/bonds are just another aspect of the theft.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 02:50 | 1179362 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Robo - you do know how the Social Security System works, right?  If you don't, why are you commenting?  If you do, then you know that you are owed nothing for all that you have paid into the S.S. system.  Your payments have supported the current Social Security recipients.  Social Security may not even exist when it is your turn to collect.  If that is the case, you will get nothing.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 02:56 | 1179364 Seer
Seer's picture

Govt is us.  It's the mirror of our beliefs that we can grow without limits.  ANY system that suggests that unlimited growth on a finite planet is possible is a lie.

No, these failings are not the sole domain of govt (looking at the corruption in the financial sector makes me wonder how people miss this fact- typically because the underlying emotions are driven by political programming).

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:02 | 1178791 Oligarchs Gone Wild
Oligarchs Gone Wild's picture

There must be a penalty for stupidity, and that penalty is just about here.

 Fiat currencies delay Darwin.  He will be returning shortly to a neighborhood near you.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 22:25 | 1179013 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Cutting observation Holmes!

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 02:56 | 1179368 Seer
Seer's picture

Yeah, thank God for the intelligent design of evolution...

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:45 | 1178624 ibjamming
ibjamming's picture

Who the fuck has a family like that?  My kids are all over the country.  They went where the jobs were.


I'm early 50's and I think I'm going to get screwed!

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:00 | 1178653 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Just what the Government wanted a fractured family.

Yet, you could move to their home or they could move to yours.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 03:04 | 1179371 Seer
Seer's picture

Why the fucked were you junked?

Whether anyone likes this or not isn't the issue.  It WILL come to be.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:10 | 1178689 impending doom
impending doom's picture

What goes around comes around...

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:03 | 1178800 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Oh, but you see here, your are the guilty

All you did/do is/was work your ass off for your whole life, and be accused of theft, and freeloading.(doesn't matter you pay/paid in, your still a dipwad).

I am sure that comes from the 20yr old basement dwellers.

Wait until it's your Ox that is gored, you will feel the wrath of Kahn also.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 21:30 | 1178928 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

I am sure that comes from the 20yr old basement dwellers.     I have two 20-year old basement dwellers that I am housing !   there are no jobs for these kids, so rather than see them on the streets homeless, they live with me, providing their own food while I still pay ALL the bills .     ...... i'm 60, have been a really good mom, housed, fed, cared for, loved the children, ...just like most good parents do.    but, now, at age 60 the worst is in front of me & the younger generation is being brainwashed to villify the older generation.   i fear we will be left to rot.  



Tue, 04/19/2011 - 01:03 | 1182980 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

See?  It's all backwards.  They should be taking care of you at this point.  That's how it was supposed to work.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:08 | 1178680 pops
pops's picture

Going back to our roots will necessitate eliminating 3/4 of the population.  It may be grand and idyllic when we arrive, but the trip is going to be pure hell.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:19 | 1178717 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Only for people in New York and other heavly populated citys.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:28 | 1178728 Manthong
Manthong's picture

My fear is that with the present crew in charge we are a lot closer to 1936 Germany than we are to the 1775 colonies or the 1859 US.  

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:39 | 1178752 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

I made a similar comparison on our National Post website on an article about the USA and received a few thumbs down and negative responses. I bet the average person in Germany in 1936 was mesmerized by the symbolism of the age, today its American Idol and that Survivor show.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:08 | 1178805 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Yeah, it's not just the fundamental transformation crew to worry about, it's the huddled masses that don't have a clue just what fundamental transformation and what change they could believe in is all about.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:15 | 1178573 blindfaith
blindfaith's picture

the best minds know the world is broken and that staring over is the only real choice.  The question becomes who remains standing, who sits in the chair, and who is no longer in the picture.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:50 | 1178639 zaknick
zaknick's picture

What a stupid fuck. For the world -sans the west- it is a bright and shiny morning full of promise. Nothing is broken to them, on th contrary, factories are humming, cars, appliances, homes are all being bought and life is good. Fuck your doomer shit. The only thing broken is Western civ out of it's own stupidity and corruption. Now you want to start a war for more oil again....fuck youuyuuuuuu!

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:40 | 1178754 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture


Warn me when you pull your head out of your ass, I don't want to break an eardrum from the "POP"

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:43 | 1178756 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

I beg to differ.

Signed, Ivory Coast.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:23 | 1178828 Creed
Creed's picture

Signed, Ivory Coast.




best regards, Somalia/China/Algeria/India/Tunisia

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:29 | 1178842 Tater Salad
Tater Salad's picture

Zaknick, where do you get your data? 

"For the world -sans the west- it is a bright and shiny morning full of promise. Nothing is broken to them, on th contrary, factories are humming, cars, appliances, homes are all being bought and life is good."


Um, aren't we (the U.S.) 28% of global GDP?  Yeah, the future's so bright I gotta wear shades...


I've got some ocean property I'll see you in Arkansas!

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 21:30 | 1178927 robobbob
robobbob's picture

yes, watch your shiny morning full of promise when 2 billion starving Chinese go head to head with 2 billion starving Indians fighting for the last drop of oil and last bag of rice.


kleptocracy knows no nationality. if you think you are immune, then you my friend, are just like us.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:19 | 1178575 lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

This is such an excellent article, full of great information, history & truth.   

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:43 | 1178616 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Yes, well, except I cringe when I read this: Amidst the financial chaos will be the ever present peak oil issue.

In 1922, gasoline was $0.22 per gallon.  Two silver dimes and two copper pennies.

In 2011, gasoline is $3.81 per gallon.  According to Coinflation a silver dime is worth $3.11, almost enough to buy that same gallon of gasoline.  When measured in real money, not masked by stupid phony statistics designed to scare people into buying the "carrying capacity of the planet" nonsense, the price of gasoline has fallen significantly. 

If this is Martensen's (and Quinn's) idea of a peak supply problem, we should have more problems just like this one.  We don't have peak oil, we have an explosion of funny money chasing it.  People discount the future too heavily in this regard.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:10 | 1178688 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

The energy in oil (hydrocarbons) came from ancient sunlight. Its supply is finite.

Eventually the price of oil will go up based on scarcity, it is just a matter of time.

So, the real question is ... where is the peak relative to our current point in time.



Sun, 04/17/2011 - 21:13 | 1178897 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Peak oil is real - once the cheap readily accessible stuff is in ever shorter supply, you'll have the 4th Turning. 

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 22:03 | 1178988 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Oh, I don't doubt its past. I was just constraining the discussion in my response to at least accept the notion.



Sun, 04/17/2011 - 22:08 | 1178995 Confuchius
Confuchius's picture


If you take a look at "" you will find out everything known about peak oil & everything else oil.

Evidently USA domestic production peaked in 1970.

World supplies peaked in 2005. A very gentle peak, barely noticable as yet.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:13 | 1178699 Doña K
Doña K's picture

We do have an explosion of funny money and peak oil is in the near horizon. You may disagree with the distance of the horizon but it's coming. Wells are being depleted, demand is increasing and new well discoveries are diminishing. The math predicts it.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:17 | 1178713 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

so i should have been invested in silver mining stocks all those years "instead of those risky Rockefeller schemes."

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 21:54 | 1178973 buzzard
buzzard's picture

Talk about muddled thinking... Since when is Peak Oil about money. Is everything about money to you people?

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 08:19 | 1179653 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

Everything is about money to the people who call the shots, you know, TPTB. It all comes down to money and power.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 08:37 | 1179700 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Is everything about money to you people?

In this case, not "money," but "price."  But, being libertarian, I do tend to think about the public aspects of life in terms of economics and the fact that most of the interactions I will have with other people are economic interactions. 

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 22:29 | 1179016 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Come on SW, you're stating the obvious. Of course the not so funny money is driving the price up to orgasmic heights, but the low hanging oranges of light sweet crude have all been picked and eaten. You know that.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 23:23 | 1179087 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

So then how can it be that it's cheaper now than it was 90 years ago?  Somehow, technology has managed to maintain supplies in the face of skyrocketing demand.  All of the other posters who replied to my comment point to the dogma of peak oil as fact.  I say, gasoline is cheaper now than it was 90 years ago.  Interestingly, the Federal Reserve started destroying the value of USD right around then, which is another fact that has been amply documented here and elsewhere.

A U.S. $20.00 gold piece would buy 100 gallons of gasoline in 1920.  The gold in that double eagle today is worth $1438.00 and would buy 377 gallons of gasoline.  Here at ZH we constantly assert that gold and silver values are suppressed, an assertion that most of us probably believe.

Gasoline is cheaper now than it was 90 years ago. I repeat, if this is an indicator of a supply problem I wish we could have lots more problems just like it.  Priced in gold, gasoline would have to almost quadruple to equal what you paid for it in 1920.

We have a money problem, not a commodity problem.  Everybody hates the fucking Federal Reserve but no one seems able to appreciate the scale of the theft they enable and how long it's been going on.  3% inflation per year = you're fucked, robbed blind.  Imagine being able to skim this much for free, forever.  The Federal Reserve is the mechanism.  Doesn't anyone play chess anymore?

Discuss facts...anyone?  This seems to me to be simple arithmetic.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 23:26 | 1179098 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Fact is that none of what you just said has anything to do with it.

"Peak oil" is not a prediction about the price.  It's a prediction about the production.  Current production has been declining for a few years now.  It is certainly possible that production will increase in the future, in which case oil hasn't peaked, just temporarily topped.

Peak oil as a principle is pretty difficult to argue without the assumption that the planet will produce an unlimited amount of oil.  It doesn't produce an unlimited amount of anything else, so it's pretty much batshit crazy to think oil would be different.  Current measurements suggest we've already reached peak oil, and production will continue to decline. 

If that's wrong, and production is going to increase, you should be pretty easily able to point out how.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 23:44 | 1179112 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

"Peak oil" is not a prediction about the price.  It's a prediction about the production.

Lollercoaster.  The two are not related?  OMFG.  I can buy it cheaper today because it's more scarce?  Is that what you're trying to say?

Current production has been declining for a few years now.

Did it ever occur to any of you that production has been declining because of low price? 

Prechter has some deflation he wants to sell you.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:18 | 1179170 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

These are the "facts" you're bringing to the table?

I don't have a strong opinion on the matter.  I was just trying to clarify some things. 

1) Get the definition right.

2) State your case: production is being voluntarily reduced by the producing countries because the price is too low for their preference.

That is what you're saying, right?  I gotcha.  It's an interesting theory.  I don't know how to evaluate whether it's accurate.  But I'm not really that interested, either.  Just trying to help.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 08:12 | 1179638 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

2) State your case: production is being voluntarily reduced by the producing countries because the price is too low for their preference.

Not what I'm saying, although we just have seen recent evidence that the Saudis apparently think so.  When we achieve a true market price, more supply will be available.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:33 | 1180791 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Based on the theoretical market-modeling: if oil is a finite resource (which as I mentioned, is a very safe assumption) then the price will continue to climb indefinitely until exhaustion, regardless of occasional additional exploitation undertaken at certain price points.

Unless you reject the notion that oil is a finite resource, "peak oil" is an accurate theory, the only dispute is whether it occurred in '06, as some claim, or whether it will occur at some yet unknown point in the future.

I don't see "when" mattering enough to get all passionate about.  My rather simple-minded view is that it doesn't make a great deal of sense to base every positive prediction about the future on the supply of a resource that we have no reason to believe is infinite.  If we run out of oil in my lifetime, most people die.  If we run out of oil in our children's lifetime, most of them die too unless we start thinking about some alternative approaches to structuring our societies.

We shouldn't be involving government in these issues, because the population isn't in agreement, and ultimately they'll just fuck it up.  But we should be thinking about them as a putatively intelligent species.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 02:40 | 1179352 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Indeed. Some people, in a position to know, understand that the gigantic oil companies are sitting on huge oil reserves in the US and fomenting trouble in the middle east to get the price of oil to $200 before they will consider accessing those huge reserves.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:34 | 1179193 Blanche DuBois
Blanche DuBois's picture

Agreed! There is no peak oil, or the prices would have reflected that by now. It's more disinformation from TPTB and the MSM and BIG OIL and all of the other evil oligarchs who control this system. I once heard an environmentalist/scientist say that oil is "abiotic" and is "regenerated" always out of the earth's core since millennia. This facade of peak oil is to create a false scarcity of supply, so that the oil companies can manipulate the prices to maximize its profits. Yes, it's ALWAYS about the money, as many here have stated.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 01:12 | 1179235 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture


On an inflation adjusted scale it is cheaper... but in my opinion, largely because we have been essentially absconding with it through the forced use of our reserve currency, MIC presence, installation of pliable puppet regimes in oil rich countries, and the coercive machinations of US .gov proxy Goldman etc who even go so far as keeping fully loaded tankers of it offshore. Yes, technology has improved in the processing catalytic and combi cracking, residuum upgrading and the like, but it has reached a point of diminishing returns. The technology is mature, and we're talking 1/2 of 1/2 now.

Regarding your Gold baseline (which I'd be all for if it wasn't the victim of paper rape)... Instead of stating that Gold ~300% more gas now, I could state that the price of oil has been suppressed ~300 percent more than AU!

Important: Gas taxes were not collected until the Revenue Act, enacted April 1st 1932. This fact alone leaves 12 full years between 1920 and 1932 which distort the stats. 

You would agree that it is a perhaps unwise to solely consider rising prices (note I did not say inflation as my definition of utility is money supply inflation) as only a demand driven phenomenon, or to indicate that rising prices are always due to cost input increases, yes? Well, in the similar, but not exact way, the inverse carries it own message. Prices that appear to be decreasing when compared in inflationary terms can be misleading because there are other factors at play which illustrate that the correlation between gas price and our currency devaluation has a low, if not completely invalid beta because of the uncontrolled variables that cannot be quantified adequately.

Causation, is a direction I attempt to embrace only in the sense of opinion and or probability. God knows I've gotten in trouble for that!

The oil commodity problem that is spoken of, or at least the one that I speak of, is one that will materialize after this corrupt and grotesque FiatED and it's .gov 69 partner have moved on to greener, less radioactive pastures.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 08:01 | 1179605 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

On an inflation adjusted scale it is cheaper... but in my opinion, largely because we have been essentially absconding with it through the forced use of our reserve currency, MIC presence, installation of pliable puppet regimes in oil rich countries, and the coercive machinations of US .gov proxy Goldman etc who even go so far as keeping fully loaded tankers of it offshore.

This is an important part of my point: we don't know what the market price of oil is.  We don't even know what the market price of money is.  As you've accurately pointed out, there are so many gross distortions built into the financial system, leveraged distortions built on top of distortions that magnify their effects.  How the F can we claim "peak oil" under conditions that nearly everyone agrees are this distorted?

Yes, technology has improved in the processing catalytic and combi cracking, residuum upgrading and the like, but it has reached a point of diminishing returns.

(emphasis added in the original) At the current price, perhaps (but only perhaps).  But I want to remind people, a few hundred years ago we had peak trees, caused in part by Europe's new obsession  We moved on, there was no "back to the stone age" armageddon that all peak oilers believe will happen.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:24 | 1180691 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Good definitional point LH. Since part of the definition of peak oil is cheap oil, without any semblance of a valid market price, the word cheap means little but what we attach to it. How can we accurately assess what the energy cost is of removing it from the ground if we don't have a reliable benchmark (fiat with varying purchasing power)?

On the other hand, it is in our nature to utilize the richest and most accessible resource first. I haven't discovered much convincing literature on oil as an abiotic entity, so I have difficulty considering it produced by other earth processes.

What has become apparent is there is not enough information to definitionally indicate oil at peak if we are using a corrupt measurement tool (and corrupt is what we have!) Again, though, peak oil when considered by its definition as corrupted by a rubber yardstick seems to step on the the other implication within the concept... which are the consequences of utilizing finite resources.

Just because the term is limited by its observer does not means we should discard our knowledge of human consumptive behavior. Nor should it encourage us to believe that oil is created by an unknown geophysical process (not saying you are).

Interesting, the current definitional concept of peak oil has a dead end built into it that limits its usefulness as a predictive tool. I always considered it as a definitional fact, it has a wounded (not dead) premise. I do believe that when thought of as a point in time where the maximum rate of extraction is reached is also suspect, as the data forthcoming is spurious at best.

Still... oil is finite in my book. 

I suppose the truth can't be known just yet. Yet.



Tue, 04/19/2011 - 08:16 | 1183320 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

Oil is finite in my book, too.  Oil is very valuable as a raw material, and it seems to me that burning it isn't the best long-term use.  I'd like nothing better than for society to move on, believe me.

Maybe hysteria is the only way to make the change happen, I don't know.  If so, it at least needs to be credible hysteria, and the current peak oil stuff just isn't credible.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 03:15 | 1179377 Seer
Seer's picture

And the problem with those that believe the world is infinite, that its center is filled with a creamy caramel substance is that, unlike back in 1922 the world didn't have a big use for oil.  People weren't desperately addicted to it!

Again, for the hard of understanding, PEAK OIL means PEAK PRODUCTION.  And, given that oil = ENERGY = WORK, then by direct reasoning it also means that peak oil means peak growth.  This isn't good for a system that's driven by growth (and things like "interest," which really are only about wagering on growth).

Even pecker-head GW Bush noted that the US was addicted to oil.  Just because I hate the bastard it doesn't mean that I dismiss what he says (as though it's some sort of conspiracy).

I know what you're trying to say, but not only are you doing a poor job, it's a non-sequitur.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 08:09 | 1179628 SWRichmond
SWRichmond's picture

I know what you're trying to say, but not only are you doing a poor job, it's a non-sequitur.

I think it's pretty obvious you don't have any idea what I'm trying to say.  Tell me why something that is more scarce costs less, when it is in ever-higher demand.  Your assertion is without basis.  Facts are pesky things.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 08:38 | 1179704 Herne the Hunter
Herne the Hunter's picture

Measure oil price against average wage. Wages have remained more or less the same over the past decade while oil prices have gone up tenfold.

So yes--in silver terms oil prices have decreased but wages have gone down even more..

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:43 | 1178619 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Ground zero could shift to Europe as millions of Muslims have settled there and will not react positively to western powers siphoning oil from Islamic countries in the name of Christianity.

Wow, never have I heard of, or seen one barrel of crude labled for Christianity.


Do we get their shit for free?, not to my knowledge.

Anyone get free Muslim oil?, bet not ONE American can claim that.

We are fighting wars in the name of a Religion?, that gets ass slammed regularly in the USA?.News to 100% of the Americans I know.

While Muslims have more rights HERE than Christians?.

I call a big fat bullshit on that out of line of leftist thinking.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:15 | 1178818 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

'Ground zero could shift to Europe as millions of Muslims have settled there and will not react positively to western powers siphoning oil from Islamic countries...'

Yes, but i thought those lovely people were brought in to offset the demographic timebomb that was going to go off and ruin everything for everyone.

It was the Jewish American plan for europe post WW2 anyway, u reap what u sow.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 00:21 | 1179171 laughing_swordfish
laughing_swordfish's picture


This is all part of The Tribe's plan to have a ready-made scapegoat in place when Europe becomes uninhabitable.

Instead of going after the Tribe, the masses will instead concentrate on a "final solution" for the Muslims, leaving the Tribe untouched.

What makes this even more credible is that this will finally divert attention from the Zionist entity, as Middle Eastern Muslims rally to their beleaguered brethren in Europe.

When Christian fights Muslim, only the Jew wins.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:22 | 1178578 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

The Empire is at it's end. States will succeed when the US Dollar is dead. The Dollar is the only thing holding them to Washington D.C. Some States have already prepared for this now inevitable event. They have or are passing laws making Gold and Silver legal tender within their States. The 13 Confederate States and Texas have governments in waiting and a currency backed by Gold and Silver so chaos can be kept in control once secession is declared. Think of the collapse of the old Soviet Union and how quickly it happened.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 03:17 | 1179379 Seer
Seer's picture

"The 13 Confederate States and Texas have governments in waiting and a currency backed by Gold and Silver so chaos can be kept in control once secession is declared."

Here's a test:  Gather up a dozen of your best friends and hole up on an island that's got nothing on it except piles of gold and silver.  You cannot get off of it, and no one knows you're there (or is able to assist you).  Yup, all will be PERFECT!

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:37 | 1178579 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

SmokeyQuinn and The 4th Turding... again!   How many times will he repost this rubbish.

Lord... Spare us such foolishness and vaporous musings from a 9-11Moron.

All this was amply foretold in September, 2001 when the master race turned on the amerKlan slaves in an open display of their intentions.

SmokeyQuinn is ten years late and $10 short with this childish rubbish.



And so also shall The 4th Reich fall.



Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:15 | 1178705 VyseLegendaire
VyseLegendaire's picture

Someone finally posted a sensible reply!

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:53 | 1178781 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

The 4th Turd  is conservative rhetoric ... "bring back tradition!"  it screams.
The 4th Turd  is prescriptive, traditionalist, virtue-cratic mombo-jombo, mixed with puritanism and a dash of Tipper Gore. Bring back values like honour and duty, observe decency in personal conduct, discipline, develop tighter societal standards, traditional virtues.
When it's not talking about early historical eras, the book is bemoaning the ever-branching diversity of choices and lifestyles in modern life or criticizing the edginess of pop culture. All the absurd theory about supposed cycles of the supposed generations, the fabled historical parallels, the dire warning that a new era of crisis is to come, is just an excuse to tell readers to prepare for a crisis era that may or may not be coming by celebrating the importance of authority; cease unconventional behaviour in an era that will demand conformity, and settling down to focus on prescribed values.
Institutions are advised to set up strict regimes of rules, zero tolerance, demands on conduct and dress to make sure that children can grow up to be the next HERO generation... a heavily conservative bent sticking out, no doubt reflecting some of the attitudes and wishes of the SmokeyQuinn.  A hollow diatribe, pushing to get back to trust in public institutions and in the government... more conservative restrictions on personal behaviour. 
The theory about "generations" and "turnings", the quotes and events of early historical generations are only fished out of the shallow AmeriKlan Sea, and, more importantly, ignore the rest of the world. Only to find a few lame examples that will make the generations seem to fit into the imaginary pattern. 
Worse yet, the portraits painted of the four recurring generational archetypes in the whannabee theory, the predications are incredibly vague and  sound like weakly created parodies.

Of course many theories will run into a FEW problems like this, but The 4th Turd  is whipped up to sound just convincing enough to sell an authoritarian ideology.  

Though there is an element of truth in The 4th Turd, certainly mankind's recorded experiences have been one of cyclical ebb and flow, one cannot make anywhere near the many pat characterizations and conclusive leaps.  If intended as a work of propaganda, the book is perfect, for all good propaganda contains enough of an element of probable truth to be plausible.

Most everything in this book is arranged and written with the assumption that their thesis is essentially correct, a mode which is overreaching, suspect, and at best sloppy. The wholesale grading & categorization of people is facile, diminishing, and overly fatalistic.
This book is an oligarchic collectivist's wet dream. The warning is that we are but mindless automatons, locked in an endless and stupid cycle of mass destruction, following our collectivist predestination, but that we might fail and then woe is to us. A stock false choice if there ever was one.
Either these guys were commissioned to write this stuff, or they have a more than adequate knack for figuring out which way the wind is blowing and sucking up to it for fun and profit. Best take that ring out of your nose before quoting it. 
Where in The 4th Turd  is the experience of Korea, Viet Nam, the Cold War, Globalism, consumer society, etc. etc.? 

The TRUTH of September 11, 2001, when it is dealt with, will be the pivot to the next TURNING.
If only truth ever finally emerges in the semi-consciousness of writers like SmokeyQuinn?

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:20 | 1178822 Oligarchs Gone Wild
Oligarchs Gone Wild's picture

"I pick things up and I put things down"

Or if you're DavidPierre, you "I CTRL+C and I CTRL+V"

What the hell DP?  Do you have a google alert set for anything to do with this and immediately get your strong pasting hand busy?

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 21:52 | 1178968 Old. No. 7
Old. No. 7's picture

Quinn is a government stooge. A paid hack. Best ignored.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 22:51 | 1179050 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture


You and I and many others all agree...

Some feedback from Jason Rines, who just happens to be, Jim Quinn's former webmaster until he booted Quinn's sorry ass to the curb a year ago.


"I saw your comment on Zero Hedge regarding Jim Quinn. I would advise you as a fellow American to let him continue to hang himself and not waste your own time.

He has his own totalitarian approach that reveals itself over time to the reading audience.

We can't stop each wannabe dictator wrapping himself/herself around the flag of what the United States once stood for.

He will continue to tell those seeking truth that they are a moron.

Whether I am right or you are right, we are at least attempting to get at the truth.

The government still nine years later cannot answer for why our tax dollars were wasted on intelligence and security apparatus into the trillions that do not protect us from what we pay into it when 3,000 American are murdered.

I try and start there while educating other Americans."


Jason Rines GAVE and MAINTAINED Jim Quinn on a beautiful, well run website FOR FREE for over a year till Quinn was stupid enough to bite the hand that was feeding him. 

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 03:29 | 1179384 Seer
Seer's picture

I've never really been a fan of yours, but I can say that I'm a fan of this posting by you.  A fine display of critical thinking.  Unfortunately, people aren't getting what you're saying.

NOTE: I _do_ believe in Peak Oil (which is "peak extraction," this is, after all, a finite planet).  And I _do_ believe that there will be a major shift.  Can we really do anything about it?  No.  It's basic overshoot stuff...

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:31 | 1178844 Creed
Creed's picture

so you want to hash the 4th Turning to pieces

but then you spout off all this bullSHIT?

how do you expect to be taken seriously if you mix your pet projects with your book reviews?




by DavidPierre
on Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:37


All this was amply foretold in September, 2001 when the master race turned on the amerKlan slaves in an open display of their intentions.



And so also shall The 4th Reich fall.





Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:21 | 1178581 Bubbles...bubbl...
Bubbles...bubbles everywhere's picture

Try purchasing silver for less than $50 an ounce. Silver is poor's man gold no more.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:25 | 1178583 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

I've heard that sense it was $12 an ounce.......

Shoo you government sock puppet.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 23:12 | 1179079 defender
defender's picture

uhhhh, maybe you should re-read that post.  He was saying that silver has come into its own to such an extent that even the poor can't afford it any longer.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 02:04 | 1179320 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

the poor can afford 2 domino pizzas, a 12 pack of PBR, behind the green door in 3D, and not an ounce of silver?

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 03:34 | 1179387 Seer
Seer's picture

Typical myopic view.  Apparently you don't get out much.

2/3 of the world's population lives on $3/day or less.  That's over 4 billion people.  Yeah, what's wrong with these stupid fuckers, why can't they get their shit together any buy silver (so that it make the pile I'm sitting on worth more)?

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 12:31 | 1180784 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Myopic, yes. Flippant indeed. Spank me, as I was thinking only of my piece of crap cousin who colors my vision in his welfare waste.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 06:02 | 1179455 johny2
johny2's picture

I heard that you can go to garden with $5 used shovel and dig 1 ounce of the silver..Obviously in case of ZH readers it is going to be much more than 1 ounce. 

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:26 | 1178584 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture


My hats off to you. Excellent article to be pondering about and the truth.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:25 | 1178586 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Silver up, dollar up


Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:39 | 1178750 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

That won't last long

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:26 | 1178587 ibjamming
ibjamming's picture

The sad thing is...SS and Medicare WOULD have been OK, could have been funded.  But NO...the politicians robbed it blind, added all kinds of people to it who had NO business getting it, and now we're all fucked...


I know...let's kill off EVERYONE getting welfare.  Everyone with "entitlement" pay...welfare, food stamps, Section 8, we cut them off completely...and just pay the people who DESERVE their payments...retirement SS and Medicare.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:30 | 1178592 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

But...But....What about the lock box? /sarc

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:30 | 1178601 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

How about this....

If you want healthcare/retirement money, you save or you don't get shit.

Don't wanna save and live within your means? You pay the consequences, that's your deal.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:52 | 1178636 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Sounds great, all for it, but the ones that have been stolen blind for 30-40+yrs, want their money back.

Then we'll be even.Nothing is an Entitlement/Gift from them, it's OUR money they are stealing, and stole.

Screw this, it's over, and we start fresh,w/Zero $$$ not at 55+ yrs old.

The Fkrs at the Fed have given trillions away to the Bankstas, and foreign banks, and the elite.

If the Gv't cannot live up to it's promises,(but can steal the lifeblood of real Americans) then we need to get rid of it, any way neccessary.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 04:28 | 1179397 Seer
Seer's picture

Stolen?  It's virtual (pretend) fiat!  Most of what it's supposed to represent (as "wealth") was based on ill-gotten gains (theft from the third-world, theft from native populations etc).

Go see how the majority of the world works/lives.  As much as I hate the underlying mean tones of the right-wing types, the reality is is that, whether they themselves even understand it, these are not sustaibable systems.  Fuck, NOTHING is sustainable anyway.

Again, MOST of the supposed wealth was cooked up from thin air.  Everyone bought into it (purchase price was in believing that we could have infinite growth on a finite planet, that housing prices would never drop, that going long the stock market is a wise investment etc. etc.).  It's like going to the cops and filing a complaint that someone cheated you in the game Monopoly.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:55 | 1178647 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

There are a lot of people who have nothing and cannot save.  They will not be slaves to your charity.  Another one who was born on third base and thought he hit a double.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:37 | 1178748 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Third base?  I wasn't even born in the ball park (try the trailer park).  Use your own money to fund your dependent vote slaves you asshole, not mine!

Oh wait...  You have more than me?  Then pay up sucker!  ...There, how's that feel?  Not good?  Y not?

Now, if you want to talk about leveling the playing field so there's actual opportunity, then perhaps we can talk.  Otherwise, fuck your left wing touchy-feely BS.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:42 | 1178755 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

So, your white trash stumbled into something good and you think you hit a homer?

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:34 | 1178741 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

If you want healthcare/retirement money, you save or you don't get shit.

Don't wanna save and live within your means? You pay the consequences, that's your deal.

Not well thought out. Perhaps people who don't like those rules come and steal your shit and get healthcare at gunpoint. (They say) "No doctors for me? No doctors for anybody."

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:34 | 1178743 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Problem for you, it seems.

...Got lead?

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:49 | 1178870 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture


I agree with you.  If the Government in the first place did not give all of the Social Security money to the Welfare Recipients, food stamps and Section 8 who never paid into the system, the system would be solvent.  Plus the gave entitlements to the Welfare recipients Medicade which took money away from the Medicare funding that we all paid into.

And let us not forget that they took all of the Money out of Social Security and Medicare during the Regan Administration to balance the budget and put in a ton of IOU's.  Now they Treasury (FED) does not want to pay them back.  After all they already gave all of the money to the Banksters and do not have anything left.

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 04:32 | 1179400 Seer
Seer's picture

They.  They.  They... It's fucking "us!"  We did it to ourselves.

It's rather pointless to run around blaming others for predicating everything on a "dream" (endless prosperity through growth).

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:28 | 1178588 Hulk
Hulk's picture


Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:53 | 1178782 PY-129-20
PY-129-20's picture

Ja. Scheisse.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:29 | 1178591 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

I see the Country returning to the times before the FED and the Government.  Where people live like the Mormons.  Chop the wood for their fireplace, plow the field to produce food, can the food and barter with one another for items they do not produce.  Canning food, Sewing clothes, quilting for bed spreads.

They may destroy the Currency but they will not destroy the people.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:22 | 1178723 yabyum
yabyum's picture

Bullshit, I have been in Utah for 57 years. Todays mormon is underwater in their house, life, and can not cook. Look to the Amish, they may be a better model. Utah's legislature are the ultimate corporate whores, yet run a Stalinist booze cartel.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 20:33 | 1178851 Yits and the Yimrum
Yits and the Yimrum's picture

if your not with the govb't, you'll be considered a terrorist

with that comes all the benefits; confiscated saving, mandatory harmful vacines, death care, citizen work force, polluted food supply, etc.

welcome to the new world order commrad

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 21:16 | 1178903 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

What no iphones fuck that , pulling a plow all day .

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:28 | 1178594 chunga
chunga's picture

Walt Whitman (1819–1892).  Leaves of Grass.

"the time draws nigh, glooming, a cloud,

A dread beyond, of I know not what, darkens me."

The time is nigh.


Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:30 | 1178598 SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

Statutes of Limitations time limits are closing in on felony fraud charges.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:33 | 1178742 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

That statute can be extended, if necessary.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 18:30 | 1178599 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

Glass-Steagall negates much of the downside the author writes about.  It's also hard to take any sophistry about a timeline seriously.  That's part, is pure bullshit.

Sorry, I don't believe Mitt and his magical underwear could win, especially since he knows dick about the economy.  (and is an oligarch lackey)...and who basically instituted the precursor of Nerobama's 'Wall street model' Healthcare, but on a state level.

The debt is fraud, Glass-Steagall it away, and what burden is there? Oh just solving our real problems via; fusion, space program, mag-lev, machine tools, nawapa, etc.

Hamiltonian Credit System, not foreign corporation Federal Reserve fraudulent debt based Monetary system.

Sun, 04/17/2011 - 19:20 | 1178715 Maos Dog
Maos Dog's picture

jmc888 it is pretty funny that you didn't state the obvious considering your rants about Glass-Steagall

The financial crisis was inevitable (I believe) when the Glass-Steagall was completely repealed in the 90's

I guess it could also be argued it was inevitable when we left the fake gold standard in the 70's

Mon, 04/18/2011 - 04:39 | 1179402 Seer
Seer's picture

"Go forth and multiply."  There, That where it started to go wrong!

All of this is but a sideshow to the main event (overshoot).

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!