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Gulf Oil May Not Degrade for DECADES
As you might have heard, scientists are finding gigantic under oil plumes from the BP spill, including one that is more than 22 miles long, more than a mile wide and 650 feet deep.
On
Thursday, Dr. Ian MacDonald and and Dr. Lisa Suatoni testified to a
Congressional subcommittee that the oil will stay toxic, and will not
degrade much further, for decades. MacDonald
is an expert in deep-ocean extreme communities including natural
hydrocarbon seeps, gas hydrates, and mud volcano systems, a former
long-time NOAA scientist, and a professor of Biological Oceanography at
Florida State University. Suatoni
has a PhD in Ecology and Evolutionary Biology from Yale, and is Senior
Scientist at the Natural Resources Defense Council's Oceans Program.
Dr. MacDonald told Congress that the oil has already degraded,
emulsified and evaporated about as much as its going to, and it is
going to very resistant for further biodegradation. The oil will be in
the environment for a long-time, he said, and the imprint of the BP
discharge will be detectable "for the rest of my life" (he's 58, and
the average lifespan for American men is about 76; so that's some 18 years).
Dr. Suatoni told Congress that oil which goes into low-oxygen zones will remain in a full toxic form for decades.
Why isn't the oil degrading faster?
As National Georgraphic noted Thursday:
The
oil plume's stability is "a little unexpected," study leader Richard
Camilli, of WHOI's Applied Ocean Physics and Engineering Department,
said at a Thursday press briefing in Washington, D.C.
"We don't have any clear indication as to why it set up at that depth."
It's
unclear why the Gulf's microbes aren't eating the oil plume, but the
organisms are infamous for being unpredictable, said study co-author
Christopher Reddy, a marine chemist at WHOI.
***
Further studies are needed to figure out why the plume isn't degrading, Reddy said during the press briefing ....
Indeed, one of the world's leading experts on oil-eating bacteria told me yesterday that the main oil-eaters aren't even present in the underwater plumes he sampled.
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"Ixtoc I bled 140Mgal of basically same stuff, polluted 150miles of TX coastline, anybody seen it lately?"
please elaborate, this is intersting.
*crickets chirping*
Ixtoc I bled 140Mgal of basically same stuff, polluted 150miles of TX coastline, anybody seen it lately?
"Ixtoc I bled 140Mgal of basically same stuff, polluted 150miles of TX coastline, anybody seen it lately?"
please elaborate, this is intersting.
I feel sad for the people of the gulf, and dogs who have to eat commercially processed food. One alternative to the dog food issue is put your dog on a "prey animal" diet. It sounds like a couple of people have already mentioned it. The "prey animal" diet is typically designed around the recreation of a rabbit.
When a dog eats a wild rabbit, the dog is ingesting the meat, bone, connective tissue, etc. Also, the dog is usually digesting the contents of the rabbits stomach - let's call them the raw vegetables. Carrots, celery, anything raw. The most popular replacement for the tissue of the rabbit are turkey necks.
Start feeding your animal a diet of these - raw turkey necks, which you can buy frozen by the case, and finely chopped vegetables. The health benefits are immeasurable - and your dog will really love you. No, I mean really love you.
I wish I had a solution for those affected by the oil problem.
i have stopped buying all bp products - to the best of my knowledge...that evil irresponsible stench of corporate filth should be executed....
Well, Thoreau, I know what I know from years of studying chemical engineering, mostly in the environmental engineering field (I was the technical director of the largest industrial waste disposal company in the US for many years, and have seen every type of waste stream known. And I operated a complete mixed extended aeration treatment system for several years, and did lab studies on selective substrate utilization, demonstrating then (1972) that bugs would eat dichlorobutene, then thought to be toxic and undegradable). And I write with confidence about what I know, and while I happen to know a lot about this subject, I am well aware that there is a lot I don't know.
PoofterP, you are certainly correct that a comparison of this spill with the issue of high fructose corn syrup is not valid. The corn syrup is already in almost all prepared foods, having replaced perhaps a third of all natural sugar use, while less than 1% of the population of the southern US will ever ingest any contaminated seafood, probably to little or no effect.
And gumstick, note that the researchers did not find depleted oxygen levels in the plume, because biodegradation is not happening. The bacteria will not begin making serious inroads on the plume droplets until they are brought up to shallower and warmer waters. By then the plume should be diluted to much lower levels, and is not likely to cause fish kill zones.
And finally, by no means did I suggest that more toxic compounds already being in pet food was an argument for more oil spills. I was just trying to put the effects into context.
you might as well be preaching to the taliban fishhawk, these people are not the most open minded, if you know what i mean.
they are convinced we are all doomed (well, except for them 'cause they have guns and ammo) and ain't nobody gonna convince them otherwise.
on Sun, 08/22/2010 - 19:37
#536782
"you might as well be preaching to the taliban fishhawk, these people are not the most open minded, if you know what i mean.
they are convinced we are all doomed (well, except for them 'cause they have guns and ammo) and ain't nobody gonna convince them otherwise."
I would suggest that you spend more than 4weeks 3 days on this site, before you pronounce this group as closed minded, VWbug. Guns and ammo, well, that's a constitutional right that is expressed by many people.
One does not have to register to read. He sounds as though he has been reading for a long time.
The "tell" isn't how long he has been registered, Richard, it's the "this group is so closed minded" remark. If it's one thing most Zero Hedge followers AREN'T, it's being closed minded.
Contribute all you want Mr. VW, but know your surroundings - "closed mindedness" is the antithesis of Zero Hedge.
Bateria cannot live without oxygen. So if the oxygen is being depleted from whatever source, the bateria will die.
There is a lot that I don't know about this spill, but some things I do know.
There are some components in the crude oil that are gasseous at room termperature and pressure such as methane. I read various accounts that this ranged from 12 to 21% of the crap the well belched. Methane is soluble in water in the same way that CO2 is in a can of Sprite. It will diffuse through the water and as that water reaches the surface it will dissipate into the atmosphere.
There are components that are not water soluable such as the black gooey tar called asphaltenes, the stuff that roads are paved with. This should precipiate out of the water and join with all the animal detritus that continually falls onto the deep ocean floor, to be gradually covered up and dissappear.
There are components that are biodegradable. Colonies of bacteria will grow as long as the food source is available. In the process, they will consume oxygen, but this is not a disaster, it is a normal issue that is seen with every large influx of suitable food. In fact, it is a sign there is biodegrading taking place.
And there are componts that are not biodegradable. Some may slowly react chemically with minerals in the water or on the bottom. They will gradually be diluted and disperse.
We have long term biosphere hazards caused by this spill and short term ones. Based on the recent episode called "Global Warming", I hope the scientific community will forgive me if I am hesitant to accept every claim of the end of life as we know it. We could start by being totally transparent as to exactly what is meant by "plume", and if the present practice of just assuring the public that one was found, but not revealing any more details, like parts per million or the chemicals that were found, then we appear to be heading down a well-trodden alarmist road once again. I hope not.
Sorry Fishhawk but I'm with BenB on this one. "millions would have sicken and died without this well blow out (think high fructose corn syrup...) is not even close to a valid argument against the the possible toxic effects.
Or that 'higher concentrations of more toxix compunds already occur routinely in pet food'.
It is not an 'either or' situation. It is IN ADDITION TO existing issues.
The action of hurricans will utimately move the crap off the bottom. There will be large gas releases when that happens. And this will become part of our food chain. And it does NOT belong there.
Why not try and suction this SWATH up?.
At 650' deep, 22 miles in length, and a mile or more wide, it seems ( to the unedjumacted me), that it would be far easier to gather now.
Commments from anyone WHY this would not be feasible?.
It's staying together, and it seems like a NO brainer to try and capture it, UNLESS it's on the Gulf floor, then there would be little hope.
The use of dispersants has broken up the oil so that it can't be sucked up using normal methods.
so you're admitting now that simmons was full of shit, and the 'oil lake' was a lie?
are you starting to see now how spreading lies comes back to haunt ya? it's called karma, baby.
My post directly above here contains the answers to the questions you ask. If you have not read it, I invite you to. The plumes of which you speak existed at the end of June. They quite probably no longer exist. I will quote myself:
Given these conditions, what are you going to suck up? The scientists can't tell that there is oil in the water until it is tested. If you can't see the oil, and can't know it's there until it is tested, how are you going to know what to suck up?
GW,
I do not doubt you, but it still seems it could at least be suctioned, and filtered............if not captured.
Not reasonable....hell, you can filter anything.............even if you cannot reconstitute it.
Take it easy, benb. Millions of people would have sickened and died without this well blowout (think high fructose corn syrup: now recognized as a primary enabler in the onset of diabetes). The reasons that microbes are not biodegrading the plume droplets are pretty simple: first, not many microbes live at 3500 foot depths, because there is not normally much to eat there, and second, it is too cold for chemical reactions to occur at any meaningful rate (remember that microbes are cold-blooded, ie, they are the temperature of their environment). The constituents in crude oil are toxic to most living things, at sufficient concentration. The droplets are high concentration, so the microbes can only approach and chew on the outside of the droplets, which is much slower than their normal methods of adsorbing soluble food molecules onto the surface of the microbe.
The plumes will not have much impact while they remain at 3500 feet deep, as not much lives there. Hurricanes will not dump huge quantities of toxic chemicals miles inland, as they do not cause much movement of waters over about 400 feet deep. And be assured that plumes at that depth are not evaporating; whatever could evaporate from the crude spill did so in the first few days. The plume may still be deadly to copepods if it drifts over their location, but is not likely to be deadly to fish at its current level of dispersion. The problems will start when the plume is carried by long currents into shallower water, and that does not appear to be happening at any great speed, so it could easily stay out there in the deep for years. However, the imprint of the spill will likely be very hard to detect in Gulf seafood, due to the low concentrations. Much higher concentrations of more toxic compounds already occur routinely in pet foods.
And finally, there is nothing in Corexit that is not biodegradable, once it is diluted to ppm levels.
Fishhawk – “Take it easy, benb. Millions of people would have sickened and died without this well blowout (think high fructose corn syrup: now recognized as a primary enabler in the onset of diabetes)…”
Now that you mention it millions of people will suffer and die from ingesting HFC not only as a result of diabetes but also from the now recognized fact that fructose sugar fuels cancer cells which is a primary reason the Military/Industrial/Agricultural Complex chose HFC to replace cane sugar in our diets. And with HFC you get an added bonus in that the caustic soda (still being used to process a good portion of the HFC) is contaminated with the neurotoxin mercury. So I guess there is the added bonus of people being, over time, so dumbed down that they consume even more carcinogenic neurotoxins without a second thought which of course will render one dumber and more susceptible to believing the Ruling Oligarchy’s ridiculous lies.
The latest I heard was that over 40 million gallons of Corexit have been let loose in our environment. The act has been so wanton, so blatant that there have been multiple reports of the toxin being sprayed directly over populated land areas by either CIA or U.S.A.F. planes.
Fishawk, welcome to the Eugenics Wars.
Golly, you're so smart and all-knowing. I don't how you know all you know, but you sure know how to make it sound like you really are all-knowing; so I can sleep soundly tonight knowing what I now know about the safety and utter non-toxicity of Corexit. You're my new favorite Tool!
All of the data just released about the plume(s) was gathered before the end of June. It has taken a while to run the tests that give the scientist confidence in their findings. It is important to note that the scientists described these plumes as "clear as spring water". You cannot see, smell, or taste the oil in the plume(s). It's presence can be detected only by sophisticated testing. The scientists also state that they have no idea where the plume(s) is/are now. They may no longer exist. Certainly, it is safe to assume that the plume(s) have become even more diluted by now. Eventually, they will become so diluted as to be meaningless. That may even have happened by now.
Bottom line - if the scientists went searching for those plumes now, there is no guarantee that the scientists would find them. They did find them in May and June.
G.W., my question still stands: do we have any evidence that the main oil-eaters actually live at the depths the plumes are reported to be/have been? If they are not naturally occurring at those depths, it is no surprise to find none in the oil plumes.This is a response to the pet food issue above but I guess my post got Corexited down here.
Dogs are carnivores. And if they were roaming the earth w/o humans my guess is that they would not take the time to cook their chicken.
That might sit well with dog owners but - trust me- your four legged friend would thank you. Meaty bones is what mine likes. And as much as I'd like to buy the cheap stuff just think of poultry from China.
I buy whole chickens and carve up the good stuff for me and the leave some meat on the bones for the dog. Cooked bones are not good for them. And the heat destroys much of what they love.
I guess my post got Corexited down here. lol - you should TM that.
I have been poking around the net and am leaning towards your raw argument: http://www.netpets.com/dogs/reference/food/cookorraw.html
I would never buy any food from China.
I know the canned food is cooked, so I am sure that home-made cooked food is healthier over canned mystery (possibly containing rendered dogs) cooked dog food.
I think you might have one-upped me with the raw thing though - I will dig further.
Screw the petfood, China has been poisoning the USA for decades with all the crap that was outlawed here, since the 70's to date.
Like every other month, some item is black balled, and no one ever collects damages.
Somehow they manage to get all kids toys in stores covered w/ lead based paint.....so, you know what they feed mushrooms.Kids pacifiers nipples laced with cyanide/mercury derivatives.
Hey, those dudes got Pop control DOWN!.
Well, I personally doubt it is some sort of population control. Same with this GOM spill, it's just a lowest cost per unit side effect.
http://www.asianoffbeat.com/default.asp?display=2045
Besides the mercury in those kid's pacifiers is probably doing them a favour in dumbing them down so they won't realise just how much they've been screwed over. Who cares, Nikes are special in aisle 5 at fucking walmart this week. That's what's important, duh. lol
Truthers are alive and well.
Mission Control to Rockford; come in.
Mission Control to Rockford; come in.
Mission Control to Rockford; Are you there?
Rockford - come in.
Rockford - are you there?
Rockford? -
Rockford - - - ?
Rockford - - - are you there???
Yep, I'm still here, alive and well ... in spite of being an "Exxon Valdez Oil Spill Worker" and in spite of OH_Regional_Indian's prophecy of an Earthquake on July 1 and a Gulf Nuke on Aug. 16. I'm still kickin and still of the belief that water flows downhill.
This oil rupture is a nasty business. Just ask Matt Simons. You can bet there is air monitoring going on in the Gulf and the results are bad news, which is why that information is being blacked out. I think American citizens of the Gulf are being sacrificed not unlike all those refugees in Pakistan in part of a globalist planned re-shuffling. “Out of sight, out of mind,” doesn’t cut it for the 10 or 20% or so of the population that haven’t as yet been turned into vegetables. Most likely this thing is far from over. At the very minimum hundreds of thousands if not millions of people will slowly be sickened and die from the toxins. Now we get the Congressional Hearing - jerk show which will amount to nothing more than burning up the clock as the leak continues. We are being lied to. IMO –the situation could get out of hand at any time.
"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happens, it was planned that way." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt, 32nd President of the United States
Sadly we can no longer ask Matt Simmons. He was attacked and killed by his hot tub.
http://www.examiner.com/human-rights-in-national/gulf-oil-whistleblower-renewable-energy-guru-matt-simmons-rip-videos
Cog. Dis. You might take heed of your last paragraph.
It is amazing how entrophy works. The controls are breaking down as we watch. The tighter those contols get the more chaos becomes evident.
In the end we will have a million car pile up--but will there be any surviving witnesses? Milestones
My friend, if I have mistaken the intent or gist of your comment, my apologies. But the control system isn't giving up easily regardless of the chaos coming.
I hold no illusions about anonymity on the web. The government and the telephone companies have been in bed since WW2 and they never divorced, despite what we're told in the mainstream media, which has been co-opted even longer. They have also co-opted Microsoft, Apple and every single firewall/antivirus software/hardware producer in the world.
Do you really think that dust up with the DOJ and Microsoft was just about their Internet Explorer? Please spare me the pacifier and warn blanket. The computer software/hardware industry has been steadily co-opted since IBM was the only kid on the block.
"They" know who I am and where I live. They know my underwear size and my medications, who I owe and what I pay, my family members, friends and fellow activists. They know what weapons I own and where I keep them, considering they "visit" my home semi regularly.
I'm a very vocal local activist that lives near a few........um.......sensitive military bases. So it stands to reason without any additional proof that I'm considered a "trouble maker" and watched closely. Every single e-mail and phone call you make is monitored with extremely sophisticated algos to sniff out key words and phrases.
This is going on now and has been for decades with ever increasing sophistication and to think otherwise is to engage in flights of self deception. It's not getting bad, it already is bad. I will be picked up in the first or second round of detentions. So holding my tongue only serves their purpose and subverts my own.
Why has Zero Hedge, Wiki-leaks and numerous other "expose" web sites located outside of the USA in more friendly countries and why do they use non-commercially produced operating systems and/or software? Not because they wish to keep their costs down, that for sure. We are watched, monitored, measured and assessed daily. To not speak of this reality is suicide in my humble opinion. But then again, I'm paranoid, right? :>)
Hey NWO, monitor this
911 Inside job
Cog.Dis. I may have confused the issue by my throwing in the entropy (which I misspelled) into my comment/warning.
In my previous life I acted as a tele. consultant (late 60,s on) and basically we used to beat up Ma Bell (one grand monoply) because they lied and cheated customers. Needless to say I was on their shit list since that time so understand the futility of worrying about personal privacy.
My reference to entropy was that as TPTB get more and more specificin in the information they seek, the greater are the mistakes they make because the natural state of nature is randomness:ie the BP oil spill. The more they try to control the story the more lies that have to be told; and thus the greater is the potential for a mistake which then that must be covered by yet more lies increasing the chance of more errors on a geometric basis. Finally we end up with a 911 deal, 35% know its BS but we just tread water cause what do we do about it?
The bottom line: the end of our $$ mess is near. More and more people are seeing more and more bullshit and the truth and reality is finally beginning to get traction. I have said-- when will we know the time is up--its when mama tells the ole man, I can't fed my children. And when the 12 Gauge come out--school is out.
Rather long winded. Sorry about that. Milestones
All I will say is that the closer the powers that be come to collapse, the tighter they will cling to power. And this means they will begin to use real (police/militrary/homeland security/black ops) force and greater psyops and fear based control mechanisms, including plunging us into world war if they feel the need.
They will not go quitely unless we hit the streets in force. And that's not happening. As long as they don't feel seriously threatened, they feel they can do pretty much whatever they want. And that's precisely what they're doing.
Dude. I didn't know ZH was located outside the US. We can't lose sight of the fact that with everything at their disposal they are still just human.
And humans live in communities. The same communities as you and me. AT some point maybe even they will get sick and tired of the assholes like Soros & Co.
Surely even they have read the scorpion fable.
You should find this interesting:
http://www.nerdylorrin.net/jerry/politics/Warrantless/WarrantlessFACTS.html
Paranoia is just reality on a finer scale...
I think the ones who profited most from it will be surviving just fine.
The oil will be in the environment for a long-time, he said, and the imprint of the BP discharge will be detectable "for the rest of my life" (he's 58, and the average lifespan for American men is about 76; so that's some 18 years).
Weeelllll, let's see now. The Exxon Valdez catastrophe happened 18 years ago. People are still sick, food chain is still compromised and there is still freaking oil imbedded in the land and under rocks. So the 18 year range would now be considered...way too short.
I suspect a few more public declarations that BP and the government are full of shit and Dr. Ian MacDonald's lifespan will be considerably shorter than the average male. In fact, didn't he look a little pale while testifying?
Desperate (Ponzi) men will do desperate things and the only thing keeping the various parts of the Ponzi together (and as we are seeing, BP as a financial funding source is a major part of the Ponzi) is public apathy and feelings of ineffectiveness and powerlessness.
Both of these can, and will, be overcome by obvious public displays of the punishing power meted out by those in charge, our so-called benevolent fascist dictatorship. They will most certainly attempt to stifle dissent and silence the increasingly loud voices who are pointing out that certain well dressed emperors are in fact quite naked and ugly to boot.
I can't wait until some uninvolved expert is called to testify about some part of the Ponzi and s/he pleads the 5th in order to dodge state execution. Expect more deaths from drowning in teacups, suicide by chain saw, accidents such as falling out of a 747 at 35,000 feet and other well known and documented shenanigans and close encounters with the various men in black, NSA/CIA/DOD/MOSAD/NATO branch.
Has anyone considered the possibility that Corexit kills the oil-eating bacteria, or makes the environment so toxic that the bacteria can't proliferate? Just a thought. How about the loss of oxygen in the water affecting the bacteria?
No, i was too busy worrying about a giant methane bubble explosion, a volcano, an underwater lake of oil, a hurricane wrought death rain and a tsunami, to name a few.
I thought the call for evacuating the entire SE and detonating thermonuclear devices on it was a nice touch of hyperbole...LOL.
You are clearly on the wrong site, my man.
when i hear a conversation where one person says, for example, 'blacks are lazy', i will always speak up , as i think it's the least i can do to stop the hatred and ignorance out there.
i hear a lot fo that kind of talk here, and am just doing my part to speak out.
sorry if that bothers you.
I commend you regarding your first sentence. Scroll down for the rest.
"Has anyone considered the possibility that Corexit kills the oil-eating bacteria, or makes the environment so toxic that the bacteria can't proliferate?"
I have.
Fortunately for us there is not enough Corexit on the whole planet to cover the entire GoM. Or they may have tried it.
+++
Rocky, you don't have a single brother do you? tell your wife to treat you right!. I can't believe they aren't talking about Corexit killing the microbes. The last real info I saw on Corexit said it caused bleeding from the mouth and anus! I don't see how oil eating microbes would feel welcome there., IMO