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The Haggling Begins: Greece Attempts To Renegotiate Terms Of Austerity Package
It is well-known by now that the IMF and EU have no credibility left. What, however, was not known, is that even bankrupt little Greece is now in on this secret. In the latest attempt by the very recipient of US and European taxpayer generosity to muscle around the bailout providers, Reuters reports that Greece is now actively trying to renegotiate the terms of its pension reform. The initial focus item: "officials said they wanted the EU and IMF to agree full pensions should be payable after 37 years of contributions instead of 40, as set out in the deal, and allow the reform to be implemented later than foreseen." Of course, should the IMF relent and give in to this, Greece will immediately demand that all Austerity requirements are null and void as they tend to lead to such unfortunate events as stormings of parliament and possible future civil war. Furthermore, with austerity now a pan-European phenomenon, look for increasing back and forth negotiations to begin all across the PIIGS and the core, as, surprisingly, nobody in Europe is all that eager to keep working the second they hit 50 years of age. Look for a plunge in the EUR if the IMF even considers engaging in terrorist negotiations. Which of course is the plan all along.
From Reuters:
Greece is trying to renegotiate the terms of a drastic pension reform required under the terms of an economic rescue deal agreed this month with the EU and the IMF, senior government officials said.
In the first sign of glitches over the 3-year bailout plan, officials said they wanted the EU and IMF to agree full pensions should be payable after 37 years of contributions instead of 40, as set out in the deal, and allow the reform to be implemented later than foreseen.
"The (EU/IMF) memorandum will be implemented but I want to have the option to negotiate to the end," Labour Minister Andreas Loverdos said in a television interview. "I'm fighting for this, I'm not saying I will win."
Greece needs to comply with the memorandum to receive quarterly aid instalments from its international backers, and faces a tough battle if it insists on re-negotiating conditions it must meet under the 110 billion euro ($135.1 billion) deal.
Pension reform is a crucial performance benchmark for the debt-choked country under the EU/IMF plan, and any problems over this could raise doubts about the government's resolve to carry out the harsh austerity programme.
Perceptions that the Greek pension system was much more generous than their own helped fuel widespread opposition among Germans to footing the bill for Greece's rescue, in which Berlin will pay the biggest national share. The German retirement age is being raised to 67, while Greek men currently retire at 65 and women at 60.
Centre-left daily To Vima said Loverdos was "bluffing" and would not be able to renegotiate the terms of the deal. "The Labour Minister's statements that he is in negotiations ... over pensions are creating confusion," the paper said.
The European Commission sent Greece a letter to remind it to stick to the terms of the deal regarding the pension reform, a spokesman for the EU executive said on Tuesday.
Greece will provide visiting EU and IMF inspectors with an actuarial study on Friday and hopes it will help convince them to water down the terms of the deal, including implementing the pension reform fully in 2018 rather than 2015.
"This is also an open issue, whether the new way of pension calculation will be implemented in 2015 or 2018," Deputy Labour Minister George Koutroumanis told Skai Radio on Wednesday.
"We have specific arguments on why (it should be) in 2018 and not in 2015," he said. "Of course it is not a problem for us to move it three years earlier but there are technical issues which we have to deal with."
The draft pension bill allows retirees to draw a full pension after 37 years of contributions, three years less than set out in the bailout deal, but gives incentives for workers to work 40 years.
"We say yes to the age limit of 40 as mentioned in the memorandum and we respect it, but we somehow interpret it differently," Loverdos told Mega TV late on Tuesday. "If it is not accepted, if the actuarial study does not convince, then we will adapt to the memorandum."
The pension bill is expected to be submitted to parliament soon and be voted on in June. The socialist government has a comfortable parliamentary majority which should allow it to pass the bill easily.
But the main labour unions oppose the bill and have warned they will stage strikes in June to put pressure on the government.
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It seems the more things change the more they remain the same...
Yeah, wonder if any money has actually gone anywhere yet?
Don't worry... I assure you it's already gone. (Figuratively if not literally that is...)
Oh, it's "gone", all right. The first installment (Methinks it was $18 Billion, with a B, Capital B, real moolah.) was used to pay down maturing Greek notes the other week.
Mais non, mon ami, the holders thereof were primarily large banking entities domiciled in Europe.
Et, Viola! C'est tout! Fin!
It ain't over until the fat lady sings knuckles... and I can still hear her warm-up gargling backstage...
I heard Cheap Trick is her warm up act.
Oh.... so that was the gargling noise...
Well apparently Angela is blowing Ben down thread so why not?
What money? It's all debt...it sounds like they're just arguing about where to put the decimal point.
Excellent point. Faust, I pledge to bail you out. Okay, now you bail me... We just all commit to pay each other's debt, using debt, into infinity...Wheeeee!
Just as long as the proles don't start throwing a lot of molotov's.
Correct, until that unstoppable force of nature, "entropy", tears everything asunder.
MsCreant,
Yep, 1st installment went last week?.week before.
If Memory serves, approx $7B.our part, is $54B.
<Greece is trying to renegotiate the terms of a drastic pension reform >
This is really funny. Greece demands from EU credit cards providers to accept the following conditions:
- No credit limits
- Indefinite "grace" period
- No minimum payments for the next 40 years
Are these people real? I meant both Creeks and the rest of EU members.I'm starting to hate everybody.
HAHAHAHA!
+10
Starting? I got there a long time ago... :-)
Ditto. But watch this classic for a laugh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv8tVxk6Nj4
Aha ha ha ha!
Nice one Turdster... nice one!
I missed the humor, he was just saying what is true, where is the laugh?
+9/10!
'cuz I tend to focus my hate on about 90% of the population.
It's just the build up of the Fuuuuuuuuuuuu UUUUUUUUUU war. it'll peak in another month.
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7sGp7Glxis&feature=related
Mongo
There can be only one!
Mongo,
Maybe,maybe not...........usually true.
Kindly remember that my people are essentially Byzantines. We kept a dead empire alive for a thousand frikkin' years past its due date, using Greek fire, the medieval version of duct tape, bits of string, and epic haggling, diplomacy and backstabbing skills.
I'd categorize the current epic saga as leaning heavy on the backstabbing going forward.
That is why we love you:)
The kataphraktoi didn't hurt the Byzantine survival efforts either. Nothing says loving like heavy cav.
panicky greeks paying $1700 for gold
http://news.coinupdate.com/panicky-greeks-paying-for-physical-gold-0293/
Sounds like Greece already exists in a gold world... its time to end the debt compounding creation monster and reset the system.
Where can I sell?
How many times these guys can be eaten alive? From the stove to the frying pan...
” When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
Thomas Jefferson
Sounds like the Greeks are getting close to liberty.
Interesting observation C-mutant...
Thomas Jefferson was an idealist.
Therefore, he did not provide an answer to the question "liberty from what?"
Carl,
yeah he answered, from Tyranny=Government.
Notice they waited to try this one on until after they had their first debt installment a couple weeks ago.
This will just reinforce the idea that the Greeks will renege on any bailout as long as they get their money.
Welcome to the EU.
Talk about a tainted commentary. My father just came back from Greece. trust me, they're not going to renegotiate anything. Wage and pension deflation straight ahead. My dad told me one of his friends, ex-PASOK Minister of the Economy wrote an excellent article stating that cuts are easy but where is the investment going to come for long-term growth? (Hint to Greek politicians: Invest in Alternative Energy Now!!!).
Oh, my dad also told me the Communist Party s going nuts. They want to default on the debt, opt out of the EMU, the Euro, and nationalize banks and major industries. Basically, they want to bring Greece back to the Dark Ages. Thankfully, most Greeks do not pay attention to the Commies.
But I also spoke with my sister this morning who told me the level of cynicism is at its highest right now. She told me MPs just hired 200 more people in Parliament, and voted in full pensions for themselves after serving two terms.
In a recent poll asking who is most qualified to lead Greece out of this mess, my sister told me 67% of Greeks answered "Mr. Nobody". WHOAH!
Leo, are you saying that the Reuters report is commentary and not factual?
Those communist Greeks would fit perfectly in the ZH landscape.
Leo, Thanks for the backstory.
Yes, because what a bankrupt economy needs the most is being sucked into a debt growth vortex business model...
Hint: research the "alternative" energy business model...
Didn't knew the GCP was on the bankers/politicians side... from the looks, all they need to that end is to keep the status quo, not change it.
Greece, Spain, Italy & Portugal should all be heavily looking into developing their respective solar energy industries. Hook up with the Chinese and provide Europe's future energy needs. Anyone who has ever been to Greece knows there is plenty of sun to fuel future energy needs. Time to think OUTSIDE THE BOX!!!
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/it-true-alternative-energy-too-expensive
Leo - we missed your participation on this thought-provoking thread on monday. Perhaps you missed it so here it is.
You pay, I'm all for solar! Let's even forget the tiny detail its hardware being poorly recyclable at just ~85%...
Otherwise, you're just another ponzi feeding fool.
Time to poop OUTSIDE THE TOILET, too?
Can you just kindly STFU for a little while?
Leo and I are working on an IPO for our company Icarus Solar... and you're going to mess the whole sca... err... 'investment opportunity' up.
When they run out of gold we will sell them the sun!
I just had the bronze cast for the lobby...
http://www.sculpturegallery.com/Andevan07/Icarus_2.jpg
You got that utterly wrong, Leo. It's the IMF that wants to take Greece back to the dark ages, not the KKE. I haven't got the faintest who your father is talking to over there but the situation is reaching a boiling point faster than you think. The Greek public understands very well that the IMF/EU austerity plan leads to a deflationary depression and will fight it to the bitter end. As a Greek, you should also know that Greeks will never accept the idea of decisions about their daily lives coming out of NY, Paris, Berlin & Brussels. It's in their DNA......bless their soul.
Look for the strikes and demonstrations to not only continue but intensify and for debt restructuring (once the IMF/EU will realize that it's either that or outright default) within the next 12 months.
Bloomberg reports Nobel Prize winning economist Robert Mundell said debt restructuring may be “inevitable” in parts of the euro area and Steve Hanke, the architect of currency regimes from Argentina to Estonia, warned a Greek default may become unavoidable.
As for strikes, they will only weaken the economy during the all-important tourist season. Strikes for the sake of striking are simply not worth it. Greeks have to accept some of these austerity measures, effectively bite the bitter pill. The alternative is accepting decades of backwardness.
You are a fucking ass, dear stupid Leo.Why do you hate the Greeks so strongly?
Always the same: people fighting over the scraps of a dying system, the most corrupt float to the top, at least for a while.
Leo! Stop trying to hock your worthless chinese solar stocks, you will not be able to find a greater fool.
Leo,
The Spanish push into renewables has been a financial train wreck.
I just sent this to my friends who follow this and thought to myself: "You know, it would be so nice to be able to email jokes and porn to my friends once again."
Seriously, the difference between this and what you'd like to be sending is? Be quantitative.
Austerity is like dieting. It works until you get hungry.
We need a week long fast. I recommend maple syrup, lemon juice, and cayenne in hot water.
You'll have wicked shits, but that is truly a great "diet". I couldn't believe how good I felt after 10 days. Skin cleared up, lost 12 pounds, and better yet it's been much easier to resist eating crap food (pretty much 75% of food readily available).
Mr. Lemon Hendrix...?
Heh heh...lemon...
Fair enuff!
Ah, someone is playing with the Master Cleanse. :)
jeb,
I take it you live alone............j/k
Also, did this make you weary, and how many times did you go to the ER for dehydration?.(:>
Mr Lennon Hendrix
Dean Winchesters Angel dream drink.
The character there drinks this? Well thats cool!
The problem with radical diets is that they change your metabolism into storing increasingly larger percentages of food as fat, so they're actually counter-productive.
That is the problem with belemia. Fasting properly can increase the metabolism.
Not trying to be pedantic:
http://bulimia.emedtv.com/bulimia/belemia.html
Anyway, during low caloric diet/fasting, the metabolism adapts to the lower caloric input; after regaining "normal" caloric input, the proportion of food directly metabolised into fat increases, relative to pre-fasting. Repeated fasting/abundance periods only increase the problem (hence the yo-yo weight problem on serial dieters).
This is mimicked in economy: just replace fasting by money shortage, fat by savings and metabolism by spending - after a period of crisis, people are likelier to increase savings (until they forget the causes and they're not, anymore).
We are all Nine meals from anarchy...
carbonmutant
But only one bullet from not caring anymore.
Bullets are currency. That's enough for another meal or two.
Here's a simple how to: http://wackyiraqi.com/wtf/anarchyhow-to.jpg
Geraldo will show up at the first city to run out of diapers: "It's been six days! ... (of camera) I'm not picking up any of these kids. Cooper can do that."
Yes well, we know why...they have escape routes in place. America, you went without confirming your safety zones and escape routes. The fire is crowning, and headed right towards you. You will have to use your safety shelter. It is silver.
Gotta hand it to 'em... takes a fucking sack for the EU to steal $48b from the US at swap-point, then have its nations dictate the (highly favorable) terms on which they'll be bailed out.
What a complete insult to the US.
We should be revolting against the useless congresscritters that voted to fund the IMF $105b last year. Every one of your sorry asses is *gone* by 2012.
Oh we're revolting all right.
faustian,
You owe me a keyboard!
Zack,
It's 54B, but who's counting?.
Plus, we can always not pay............a NOVEL concept for us I know.
europeans working only til 50 is a pathetic myth - germany which is still the core its 65 and they are trying to push it back to 67 since the social security system is bankrupt basically same is true though for america. the real problem of core europe is they are to old germany will have half of its population at 60 or older in 2020 that is when the real bankruptcy period will start with baby boomers hitting retirement age.
Alas, people dont have a fix to the current situation. So they have to invent a faked situation they can resolve.
The story on retirement is pathetic but what can you do? It is better to rave on fiction rather than confront an impossible reality.
Check Roma, they had many Ponzi schemes. Very few were addressed. People prefered to sidetrack on stuff like cultural decadence or loss of blood (racism then)
I think 50 was Greece...........
What is humorous,if it wasn't so damn sickening....
Where did these folks come from?.
Like WE/THEY did not see the BOOMERS AGE group coming?.
Had these filthy Fks not STOLE the money, just left the funds in T- Bills, Bonds, there would be excess monies out the arse, to take care of the promises................but, NO, they steal it, spent it, and now penalize those that INVESTED in their futures, trusting their Leaders to do right by them............
Time for some friggin rope.THieves used to dangle for much less.........this is like stealing a man's horse.
Is it just me, or is it Deja Vu', all over again?.
ONE TRILLION, down the shiester hole.............
If this doesn't cause a major panic, nothing will.
Also, notice the decoupling?.
Let's not forget Mr. Loverdos is Labor
Minister, a politician that needs to play
for local politics.
The Greek government is doing what
every government in their position
would do: playing into local politics
to save their skins and, of course,
try to salvage the austerity program.
Not sure whether Loverdos would succeed though!..
Leonidas: You are generous as you are divine, O King of Kings. Such an offer only a madman would refuse. But the, uh, the idea of kneeling, it's... You see, slaughtering all those men of yours has, uh, well, it's left a nasty cramp in my leg, so kneeling will be hard for me.
Malaka!
...Pousti!
Καριολη
SO lets see for today...
-taxpayers will be bailing out unions
-Debt crossed $13Trillion (on books)
-Greece wants to back out of obligations (money for free)
-More and more anylists are saying Europe is toast and some the entire world economy
---->and the market goes up....
Hyperinflation is a hellava drug.
Securities are just pieces of paper. What those prices do rarely has much bearing on the actual business climate.
Relax. Mr. Bernanke has it all under control.
Soon, we will all be hedge fund traders. Robots will grow and deliver our food. Barack Obama will be president for 20 years.
Everything is going to be alright, citizen. Remain confident.
(double)
So when I called up Angela to ask her about this she hung the phone up on me...
She had a mouth full, blowing Benanke.
Thanks for the image. Well, my day is ruined.
...nah don't mind that. Angie's just very unhappy that she's lost yet another high ranking party member (Robert Koch's "leaving" politics, going back into the economy), losing yet another one of the very few who actually understood how economy works.
Then again, maybe he just stepped down, so he can be the hero in the white west, once SHTF and Angie's put down...
interesting times indeed
This is just F-ing hilarious!
Is there no one in the EU or IMF with basic negotiation skills?
Good Christ, any fishmonger or vegetable merchant could take these fools to the cleaners.
They're working on it...
The entire world financial structure is hanging onna thread.
Unfathomable.
The elite is unscaved from all austerity measures. (cruel in some cases)
Shipowners /operators have a Zero tax rate on any income :cap gain ,divident ,personal or operational.
Plus off course they get tax free fuel for their megayachts , choppers , planes @ $2.00/gallon.
If you are a mere mortal with a dingi you got to dish out 10bucks/gal.
Cops made 1200 usd/month their income got slashed by 20%
Eldery people pensions of 600/mo got a 10% haircurt
Fat cats private and puplic coming out untouched
re. fuel:
My brother could also get diesel fuel at 0,20 €/l (opposed to ~1 €/l) from his former trucking company in Spain (if only he had a diesel car...).
The trick is that any half-decent business can bypass the retail circuit by buying bulk, and transport companies further get fuel tax cuts for being fuel dependent businesses and their prices cascading into economy.
Having problems viewing this video on why the US should bail out Greece:
http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/finance?ch=2813875&cl=20025379&lang=
Diners?
Tell you what, how about we eat at McDs and save ourselves $48b?
Did anyone just hear Jim Cramer say that the EU needs a TARP program because it worked so well here in the good ole USofA? Also, and I am not kidding, he said; "Madien Lane is in the black." What a douchebag....
I must've missed something; what was that $1 trillion about a couple of weeks back? Buying toxic assets from banks, only the toxic assets are sovereign debt this time.
And, yes, he is a douche. Actually, he is the pus-coated douchenozzle.
No.
I tuned Jim Cramer out a long time ago, as he is an annoying sociopath.
Bankruptcy is the Greek reality. It's time to start fresh. Free of debt they can hunker down and rebuild. If the rest of Europe can't handle it it's their own damn fault for creating this make believe economic system.
Greek Gvnt is not trying to renegotiate. Gvnt officials are trying to ease people's reaction against austerity measures. Its all propaganda for the Greeks.
Socialist Gvnt lied and they know it. Greeks are going to liquidate liars.
Hope they do it and quite quickly so we can learn from them.
Greeks, get started!
French Revolution 4.0
---Bloodbath---
We will see a similar type of back and forth in the US, but it will focus on State's rights.
The point of issue will be the power to tax labor.
Europe has a similar problem, there is only so much revenue achievable through taxation, and its benefits must be used directly before losses due to waste, or the people will be denied the basic fruits of contributing to the society. The money has to be used responsibly, and provide services to those who provide labor, or an equilibrium will never be reached.
Mark Beck