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Hand'em Over Toyota... You Got It, Toyota!
The government is ordering Toyota to turn over internal documents which may reveal how long or not, the fallen auto leader knew of sticking pedals and floor mats that jam; among other things- before taking action.
Toyota- surely practitioners of JIT methods, concerned of unsold inventories said it will idle some production facilities in up to three states- San Antonio, Texas, Huntsville, Alabama and Georgetown, KY among them- about 9,000 employees between all three, but no one will lose their job during the interruption.
The company has 30 to 60 days to ante-up the documents or face fines.
Toyota also faces seperate probes by the Obama Administration and Congress, piled-on to the fact that they still have to sell, sell, sell, well- it's not going to be a time Toyota will soon forget.
Under federal law, auto manufacturers must notify the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration within five days of finding a safety defect exists and conducting a recall.
These probes even extend beyond Toyota's US domestic operations- unprecedented for a federal agency typically regulating only domestic vehicles. The investigation is extending to Toyotas sold in Europe- Toyota having told the NHTSA in January that a problem occured in Europe as soon as December 2008.
According to an article by the Associated Press:
"Government investigators are looking into whether Toyota discovered the problems before, during or after production of the affected vehicles, whether their recalls covered all affected vehicles and whether the company learned of the problems through consumer complaints or internal tests.
Toyota said in a statement that it "takes its responsibility to advance vehicle safety seriously and to alert government officials of any safety issue in a timely manner. We are reviewing NHTSA's request and will cooperate to provide all the information they have requested."
Federal officials are focusing on the two major issues behind the recalls -- gas pedals that can become lodged on floor mats and pedal systems that are "sticky," making it harder for drivers to press on the pedal or ease up on the gas.
The information requests seek detailed timelines on when Toyota first became aware of the problems, how it handled complaints, how much it have paid out in warranty claims over pedal problems, what internal communications there were about pedals and which company officials were involved in making decisions about the issue.
NHTSA also wants to know how seriously Toyota considered the possibility that electronics of the gas pedal system might play a role. The company has said tests show that electronics were not to blame. But federal safety officials want to know how Toyota dealt with complaints that might not be related to floor mats or sticking pedals."
I don't know about you, but- I'm going to go watch Gung Ho.
Mimi Rogers isn't half-bad looking in that one...
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I forsee some excellent deals to be had on lightly-used Toyotas 3-6 months from now.
Hopefully all the idiots that bought Priuses get slapped with a hazardous waste disposal fee when they try to dump them quickly for alleged safety shortcomings.
Even more hopefully, the recall spreads to Lexus components!
don't forget, chaps, $700e6+ is owned by the Japs and they might decide to go China on us if the charade is pushed much more.
oops, what's a few hundred billion among friends? (700e9+)
Protectionist cheerleading against Japanese cars which implies support for cars made by socialist Government Motors, aka the Lada.
I'll take the Toyota. You can have Obama Motors and all the utter crap it builds.
Agreed on the GM angle.
Also, should we not consider the "Get US out of Okinawa" angle? I, for one, agree with the Okinawans/Japanese, let's get the hell out and bring them home.
Amazing how blatant the attack on toyota is. The obama admin is trying to forcefeed detroit on the public
i was truly amazed at this community organizer trick as well...dear leader is upping the ante and this lesson will not be lost on other countries as well...what actions will we see from japan and others in response to this protectionist activity?
Remember the Firestone tires that were installed on new Fords that would exploded at high speeds? Firestone knew of the defect but did not admit to the defect until there were so many dead bodies on the interstates that a two hour trip was taking 5 hours due to stopped traffic.
Toyota bashing is just a cheap media gimmick. No one is giving up their Toyota. Imagine if it had happened to GM. We would of had to loan GM the money to make the recall repairs.
I have always driven a GM product and always will. But I know BS when I see it. And this Toyota bashing is BS.
toyota bashing? tell that to the families of the 34 dead people:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jwhsZGkLiVy8vjdii7LLsW...
34 deaths since 2000.. lol (remember ford ... firestone) ,, 3.4 deaths a year,, how does that stack up to every car maker,how many toyotas had firestone tires
probably the continued noise,, of the closing of army bases in japan,, thats a no no,, okay bases stay ,,, end of noise lol
since 2000 .. 1 million dead in araq,, plus afganistan ,, drones in pakistan.
every death a sorrow,, 45,000 in traffic , 3500 from lightning ,, 3.4 dead in toyotas,, 10 from a loud BOO...
How many people get killed per *day* by guns in this country? no recalls there.... oh, wait, that's the only possible use for a gun, so those are working as designed.
"... And in an industry we need to reclaim."
First of all, who is we? There is no "we" in the US anymore, this ain't 1945. It's us against them. Secondly. "Under federal law, auto manufacturers must notify the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration within five days of finding a safety defect exists and conducting a recall."
How do you know the ex-NHTSA employees hired as lobbyists by Toyota didn't tell NHTSA within the five days?
I'd still buy a Toyata before GM, Ford or Chrysler.
Japan is just one of very few friends America still have. So, what do we do? We are trying to ruin them.
Obama and the US Congress are really screwing the situation.
PS
I have a 10-years old Acura car. It is a very good car even it was recalled twice. The service always was great. Before, I had a GM car. It never was recalled but it was a terrible POS.
Have to say this is starting to creep me a bit - sure the deaths are sad, but this feels way overblown. The piling on of the media and gov't seems truly blatant now.
Throwing Japan under the bus via Toyota, and Europe via Goldman et al., all at a time of critical financial weakness and apparent lack of anything resembling leadership. The storm approaches and our list of allies grows thin indeed.
Goldman's designs will kill a lot more people. When do we recall their products?
Well put! I'd guess that the recall of Goldman products begins right after the RICO indictments start.
Unfortunately, I think we're more likely to witness the second coming of the Invisible Man In The Sky than see RICO prosecutions for the financial criminals of late.
More's the pity.
economics has killed more people in the world than,, most of the wars, caused suffering , unemployment , poverty.
and yet we have some on this board bowing to its
entrails... in fact they are most vocal about this , and earn a living processing deathJust from memory -
The Pinto:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Pinto#Safety_problems_and_scandal
The Explorer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Explorer#Controversies
Firestone and Ford:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestone_and_Ford_tire_controversy
Ford Bronco:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Bronco_II#Safety
the money quote: "Documented evidence showed that Ford knew about this problem, but found it less expensive to hire a team of lawyers to prep for the oncoming lawsuits before the vehicle was even released, than it was to pay for a costly redesign.[3]"
So this whole backlash against Toyota seems a bit odd given its happened a LOT before.
Toyota related foreclosures to start in 3 Southern states ?
Also, Japan will be forced to dump some Treasuries as less foreign (USD) revenue inflows occur. To absorb the short term money flow loss they will be forced to sell some Treasuries ? wild guess from an ignoramus...
Whether or not Toyota was burying the accelerator problem this time, this kind of thing is going to be much more common simply because there are way too many electronics in cars today.
The question isn't "if" but "when" some other software glitch causes computerized seat belts to go haywire and strangle kids in their weight sensitive, auto-adjust seats.
Ralph Nader, Stephen King, call your offices.
Why is super-complexity bad for financial products but OK for something that hurtles your family down the road at 75mph?
* And Travis, does your how-to-spend-it interest extend to the world of music and audio equipment?
go back a few days in the WSJ...Toyota had their share of "regulatory capture" with ex-employees at the NHTSA.
An industry we need to reclaim? Please. We need to get the government out of the car business instead of worrying about real competition from foreign car companies that employ thousands of American (mostly non-union) workers. It's not about "our" car companies...it's just about industry and jobs...period.
you gotta love this short sighted brain defect thinking..
it is this holy wish that we can somehow kill the middle class wage (ie union wages) and forever sustain an economy that won't go into massive debt and trade imbalance... well there you go, you got yourself saying "stop picking on toyota, don't you know Japan can mess with the dollar!!" well why can they? they and China let their currency stay close to mud level so they can appear to look responsible on labor costs while all they and china did was Rockerfellering American's future down the drain
YEHA we kill the unions and all labor greedy bastards!!! woot!!! we won!! what no one works anymore?? you mean they just didn't die off?? so now the ones that still have jobs have to pay more and more taxes?
wait.. didn't we win???
Get over yourself. The point is that politics and unions have created this situation. I'm all for the workers, union or not. But for anyone to hold forth that union leadership has not caused many more problems for the US industry base than they have solved for their members causes that person to lose all credibility.
You want to be blind to what's going on with this administration and union leaders, go ahead. Just don't peddle that bullshit talking point here.
i would like to engage in this more since most times I have, both sides become more enlightened.
..but this site doesnt seem to allow email notice of replies to comments like the old version did so sorry if I don't see your reply.
One of the points people forget is that many unions were forced into taking benefits instead of pay raises... businesses saw that as a good way to curb rising pay costs but did not see the runaway train that health care and big pharma turned out to be. Many unions then forgave and even took pay cuts to protect the benefits since they were wise enough to think long term..
My major point in this debate is that the people who slam unions do not give them their due on correctly planning for the future while these same critics worship any business type that plans ahead correctly as if they are another Warren Buffet
It is a simple class war in that business types will never give a worker any status to be correct since they may not have any high level of formal education. It is snobbiness to the extreme.
I feel the corruption on both sides cancel out and I choose not to debate either of that, I rather show that the real problem is the uncontrolled costs in health care and big pharma that indirectly throws union compensation out of wack. So how do you blame unions for something they have NO control over??
Take you angst over to the soaring health care and pharma costs.. why can't we buy drugs from Canada or anywhere else?? Unsafe?? yeah for big pharma's profits..
Something is rotten in Denmark. Though doth protest too much. To be or not to be. If you can keep your head when others around you are losing theirs, then you clearly don't understand the gravity of da sichuwashion.
Seriously folks, this PROVES once and for all that our government is capable of outrage. Now, if they could bottle this for use in other outrageous situations I might start believing again. Let's start with GS failure to disclose Greek swaps. Now there's something to be outraged about.
Oh ... wait ... I forgot. GS is an American company. But wait, Toyota is too right? I mean they have plants in Alabama, Tennessee, Ohio and California. Oh damn ... I am just so confused. :-(
bah, the US Govt isn't targeting Toyota because of the GM linkage. Of course that linkage is there, and it does pose a valid ethical question. The govt should have never taken over GM. This is more evidence as to why. You can't be seen to regulate a market in good faith if you are a player in it. GM and Chrysler should have gone to bankruptcy court, that's more obvious every day.
But with regard to Toyota the govt action is justified. In hindsight, problems with spontaneous acceleration first appeared on a scale to be noticed in 2002. This predates the adoption of the CTS gas pedals -- the ones Toyota blames (although those pedals are manufactured according to Toyota's specs). The floor mat problem originally blamed by Toyota has also proven to be a canard. Good reason exists to believe that the problem lies in Toyota's software and Electronic Throttle Control design. Toyota refuses to acknowledge that as a possibility, yet there's a good chance that's the real problem.
Toyota's corporate culture is in shock over these problems and has not coped well. They are not used to problems like this and massive recalls like this. They've handled it poorly and this has contributed to a more aggressive posture by the regulators.
Toyota ought to get used to it. Just like GM, Ford, and even Mecerdes Benz before them, Toyota is a car manufacturer who has two problems. One, over-engineering and two, market share growth. These two ambitions chafe against each other. Classically, they face a "Ford Pinto Problem" in that they seek to make good, profitable car and seize as much market share as possible in the process (that means perhaps over-extending the manufacturing capacity, to boot). Quality always suffers under this rubric. It did for GM, it did for Ford, and Toyota is no exception. Toyota has in fact led an internal campaign against over-engineering within their design shops because of the costs involved in it.
They've moved from a meticulous growth, meticulous quality company with a handful of continually refined cars into a global line with three marquee brands: Toyota, Lexus, and Scion in a relatively rapid time. Go drive a new Corolla today, then go drive a well maintained 1988 Corolla. There's no comparison. It's like two different companies built them, because two different companies did.
Toyota is a great car company. GM and Ford are great car companies, too. They are all three at different stages of development, and that's the essential difference between them all. Toyota has matured into a position akin to GM in the late 1970's or early 1980's. Expect to see more recalls rather than fewer ones, despite the Toyota HQ press releases. Expect to see continued declines in Toyota's already diminishing quality, more reliance on sales gimicks and "packages". In general expect the Toyota ownership experience to continue to approximate the GM experience of old.
Gah! I sucks to be the biggest car manufacturer in the world, in a way, doesn't it? There are simply economic limitations and shareholder demands and engineering and manufacturing realities. Believe me, if GM or Ford could have snapped their fingers in 1980 and produced the "import killers" they promised us, they would have. Instead we got the Pinto and the Chevelle. These problems are hard. They are not easy. Toyota, welcome to the club.
Is this what it takes for the unions to sell a car?
Under reported fact in all of this is that no matter what the accelerator does, if you step on the brake the car stops.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q4/how_to_deal_with_unintended_ac...
This will be another class action feeding frenzy (ref Dow Corning), Japan bashing party (ref congressmen taking sledgehammers to Casio on capitol lawn), protectionist farce. Go long on popcorn.
If US Government can hoist this much oversight onto Toyota, surely they can do the same for Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan, Merrill Lynch and AIG.
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